Can we agree Jokic is for real now?

[90sgoat]

:confusedshrug:

[GreatHILL]

for real in the league without defense? :lol

[90sgoat]

for real in the league without defense? :lol

The post is actually the only place where defense is still allowed. Big men get hacked a lot still, which is why the soft of them, like Embiid, stand around and shoot 3s.

[GOBB]

He

[TheCorporation]

Aside from the resident moron AirTupac who thought he was fake?

[GreatHILL]

Aside from the resident moron AirTupac who thought he was fake?

AirWigga is the biggest full retard who takes him serious? :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

people didn't think he was for real?

[NuggetsFan]

I think he has been for awhile. Atleast for alot of people. He's just underrated because he plays in Denver. The fact that he isn't a prolific scorer and can dominate a game while scoring 14 points doesn't help him either when people aren't tuning in to watch it every night.

Like look at all the teams in the playoffs. All have atleast 2 starts. Murray could be one eventually, but Jokic is really one of the few that doesn't have multiple stars alongside him.

There's a very real possibility he's going to wind up the best passing C of All-Time.

[NuggetsFan]

[QUOTE=GOBB]He

[Xiao Yao You]

I see your white text but ... I have to say.

It's a coin flip between them. You could make a case that Jokic is better. Especially with how much better Jokic has got on defense. His defense in the 1st round was excellent. He's always graded out good defensively and because he's not athletic and a euro that doesn't block shots people assumed he was poor on that end.

I assumed it because their D was awful last year

[NuggetsFan]

I assumed it because their D was awful last year

I assume that was it for some people maybe, which would be silly given how much perimeter defense can affect big men. Coaching and schemes plays a role with overall team defense as well. Especially in today's league with all the switching and rules. Team defense is far more crucial.

At no point in Jokic's career has he had poor defensive metrics tho. His DBPM has been above 2 every year of his career. His DRTG is 106 for his career which is pretty good considering all the poor defensive teams he's played on.

All his numbers are better this season, and he's for sure got better on that end. I'd say he's ranged from slightly below average to above average in his career and this season + the playoffs he's turned into a pretty good defensive player. His positioning, hands, defensive IQ are all elite .. he just doesn't have the lift to block shots and in certain matchups can struggle switching onto perimeter players given his lack of food speed. This season he's got alot better at dealing with those possessions, and most legit C's struggle with that nowadays in the modern NBA.

[FireDavidKahn]

Sorry bud but you are too late. It's been known for a while (for those who care to do actual research) that Jokic has been "real" and extremely impactful. Those who are just realizing it have been ignorant and are the people who judge players based on stat sheets and highlights.

[TheCorporation]

AirWigga is the biggest full retard who takes him serious? :lol

Big facts :lol

[FireDavidKahn]

I think he has been for awhile. Atleast for alot of people. He's just underrated because he plays in Denver. The fact that he isn't a prolific scorer and can dominate a game while scoring 14 points doesn't help him either when people aren't tuning in to watch it every night.

Like look at all the teams in the playoffs. All have atleast 2 starts. Murray could be one eventually, but Jokic is really one of the few that doesn't have multiple stars alongside him.

There's a very real possibility he's going to wind up the best passing C of All-Time.

I think he already is. The only real challengers are Sabonis and Bill Walton.

[tontoz]

He got a lot of love on Zach Lowe's podcast on Friday.

[GimmeThat]

The current last in line exposing Yao Ming as a fraud. Jokic might be slightly above Al Jefferson, but I hadn't seen him outplayed DeAndre Jordan in isolation

[Xiao Yao You]

The current last in line exposing Yao Ming as a fraud. Jokic might be slightly above Al Jefferson, but I hadn't seen him outplayed DeAndre Jordan in isolation

Jefferson was a black hole. Completely opposite player

[GimmeThat]

Jefferson was a black hole. Completely opposite player

And Steve Nash was a two-time MVP, unless you're suggesting Chef-Curry is also a black hole. Which is really odd since the Warriors have no one to run the offense in place of him since they need him and Durant together.

[Xiao Yao You]

And Steve Nash was a two-time MVP, unless you're suggesting Chef-Curry is also a black hole. Which is really odd since the Warriors have no one to run the offense in place of him since they need him and Durant together.

Didn't suggest anything other than Jefferson was a black hole and Jokic isn't. One I would want the other I wouldn't.

[NuggetsFan]

I mean Jokic as a 24 year old just won a playoff series with no other All-Stars putting up unheard of numbers for a C. 23/12/9 with 1.7 TO's a game. Without even cherry picking what C's in the history of the NBA have been capable of doing that? Not in a game or two, because that list would be long, but for an entire series? It's not a huge list, he's in rare company. Al Jefferson isn't even in the same universe as Jokic.

I'd say he's even surprised Nuggets fans. It's his first playoffs. Players tend to struggle. Maybe he struggles vs the Blazers or GS but there's no denying he showed out in a big way vs S.A.

[Smoke117]

Didn't suggest anything other than Jefferson was a black hole and Jokic isn't. One I would want the other I wouldn't.

He's a dumb ass troll. Anyone who thinks Jokic is slightly above Al Jefferson is either trolling or remarkably stupid. Either way, worthless.

[NuggetsFan]

Look at his regular season numbers. Led Denver in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG and they won 54 games with no other All-Star. He did it again in the first round. How many players, let alone C's do that? If that was happening in say New York people would be going crazy.

People didn't even have the Nuggets as a playoff lock this season, yet there in the 2nd round. Least amount of playoff experience in the playoffs currently, and something absurd like 8th all-time. Our roster literally has like 2 players who aren't playoff rookies right now :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Look at his regular season numbers. Led Denver in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG and they won 54 games with no other All-Star. He did it again in the first round. How many players, let alone C's do that? If that was happening in say New York people would be going crazy.

People didn't even have the Nuggets as a playoff lock this season, yet there in the 2nd round. Least amount of playoff experience in the playoffs currently, and something absurd like 8th all-time. Our roster literally has like 2 players who aren't playoff rookies right now :oldlol:

most people had the Nuggets in the playoffs. No one thought they'd be as good as they have been yet

[NuggetsFan]

most people had the Nuggets in the playoffs. No one thought they'd be as good as they have been yet

Some did. People like Zach Lowe have always been high on the Nuggets core. I said playoff lock tho, which they weren't. Nuggets weren't 100% penciled into the playoffs, especially with L.A getting LeBron. If you looked at everyone's playoff predictions people had the Nuggets anywhere from like 7 to 9-10 usually. I'd feel confident saying that the Nuggets were 50/50 in most peoples minds.

Add in the injuries .. because at one point the Nuggets were down 3 starters. I don't know what the final total was, but at one point we were leading the team in games lost to injury. Had you told people that the Nuggets would struggle with injuries that much and make the playoffs let alone as the 2 seed I think it would be shocking. Nuggets fans were pretty shocked themselves. I'm a huge Jokic fan and I didn't think he had the mindset to dominate as a scorer like he has at times this year when everybody was hurt.

IMO Jokic is the clear 3rd choice for MVP behind Giannis/Harden but because people don't pay attention to Denver that's not the case. No other All-Stars, 2nd seed, leading your team in 4 major statistical categories, should make you the consensus 3rd choice.

[kurple]

for real in the league without defense? :lol
He is great on defense tho. Just not blocking shots.

Nuggets had the best 4th quarter defense in the league.

[Rudeboy3]

Dudes a beast, ive been high on since him and nurkic were fighting for the starting spot

[Doranku]

I thought he would struggle in the playoffs but he's been even better than he was in the regular season. The Joker is the real deal.

[stalkerforlife]

Silly thread.

Jokic was always for real.

And it doesn't matter who agreed to it.

[RoseCity07]

He's for real but the Blazers have probably the worst front court for guarding a team with a skilled big. They got Kanter lol. Then they have Harkless and Aminu.

:lol

[PickernRoller]

Couldn't give two sh1ts about the Nuggets but I guess I'm happy their fans and city finally got something to root for... these small market teams were hurting bad. Jokic is a true team player and such play allows him to succeed the way he's doing now. Has also shown good leardership. That right there makes up for a lot in chemistry that other "stars" in the league wish they had. Pure talent can only take you so far.

[NuggetsFan]

37 points on 18 shots, 6 assists with 2 turnovers, 9 rebounds with 3 steals and 2 blocks. 41 minutes after playing 43 minutes in a game 7 2 days ago where he picked up a triple double.

I do expect him to taper off a little bit. First playoffs, not use to the extended games/minutes etc. but if somebody was doing this in a big market and had a bigger "brand" it would be played 24/7 on all the big sports networks and the hype train would be unreal.

[NuggetsFan]

Couldn't give two sh1ts about the Nuggets but I guess I'm happy their fans and city finally got something to root for... these small market teams were hurting bad. Jokic is a true team player and such play allows him to succeed the way he's doing now. Has also shown good leardership. That right there makes up for a lot in chemistry that other "stars" in the league wish they had. Pure talent can only take you so far.

He volunteered to come off the bench to help the team win a few years back when we tried the Nurkic/Jokic twin tower lineup and we weren't winning. He sat for some games, stole the spot back, Malone upped his usage and the rest if history.

My biggest question mark with Jokic has always been his mentality. He can be a team player to a fault. He's had games where he'll take like 7 shots. This season and now the playoffs he's finally figuring out how to balance it.

He's got in better shape, but I don't feel confident as a Nuggets fan seeing him log 40 minutes night in and night out. I don't think that's realistic at all.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Nikkas really think Embiid better:oldlol: :roll:

Ppl give Jokic defense sht and he's a bad rim protector and pickandroll defender but he's good at everything else on defense

Jokic defense > Embiid offense

Yeah Joel puts up 28 PPG on 20 shots while taking 3s despite shooting 30%

Dude got sht on by Al Horford last year and Now Marky Marc waxing that @zz heyaa boi

Give me the GOAT big passer who's also the best passer in the league now regardless of position, a great shooter from anywhere any range and a dominant rebounder and screen setter and pickandroll/pop and post up option

[GoatBoy]

I told y'all this in his rookie year

[sammichoffate]

He's 1a and 1b w/ Embiid imo, I haven't seen any health issues from him yet so he might be a safer pick moving forward. Other than defense, he has a complete game it's p nuts.

[tontoz]

Jokic has the top RPM among centers and he played 80 games. Embid played in only 64 games.

In the playoffs:

Embid 21/11/3.5 with a TS of 56%

Jokic 25/12/9 with a TS of 60%.

I would say Jokic has definitely been more valuable this season.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jokic has the top RPM among centers and he played 80 games. Embid played in only 64 games.

In the playoffs:

Embid 21/11/3.5 with a TS of 56%

Jokic 25/12/9 with a TS of 60%.

I would say Jokic has definitely been more valuable this season.

Are playoff RPM or RAPM numbers available?

Jokic's been killing it. No doubt.

[Prometheus]

I hate to say it, but Jokic is the best big in the game. Better than Embiid.

[BigShotBob]

Embiid relies on 10 FTA a game and Jokic is far more skilled than him while playing with a midget backcourt.

The best players that he plays with come off of the bench though imo.

[tontoz]

Are playoff RPM or RAPM numbers available?

Jokic's been killing it. No doubt.

ESPN doesn't do RPM for the postseason.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

You could find out the raw +/- from the game logs.

[Xiao Yao You]

Embiid relies on 10 FTA a game and Jokic is far more skilled than him while playing with a midget backcourt.

The best players that he plays with come off of the bench though imo.

2 6-4 guys is a midget backcourt?

[GOBB]

Embiid gets 10 free throws because he is tougher to guard in the paint. Last night Embiid hit a tough bucket against two defenders one being Gasol. He gets fouled because defenders hack him. It

[NuggetsFan]

I think it's a coin flip between the two. I don't expect Jokic to be this dominant as a scorer. He'll be a more efficient scorer, and even as a 20 point per game guy it'll be a coin flip because he's closed the gap as a defender and makes his teammates alot better. As a Nuggets fan I'm happy with Jokic because he has no ego, is team first, and healthier, and I do think were getting to watch the GOAT passing C when he hangs them up.

If Jokic continues scoring at this volume than yeah he's the clear cut better player and it takes his game to another level. It's not even the skill. He has the handle, the jumper, the post moves, the basketball IQ that averaging 25 points isn't surprising at all but I do question if he has the mentality. Best case for Nuggets fans is that playoff Jokic flips a switch and becomes alot more aggressive as a scorer, while still playing elite team basketball.

[Uncle Drew]

Only idiots and blatant homers (or both, in some case) thought Jokic wasn't legit. He is an MVP candidate. Maybe his bid isn't as strong as Giannis', but he's a candidate nonetheless. Best center in the league bar none.

[SpaceJam2]

Only idiots and blatant homers (or both, in some case) thought Jokic wasn't legit. He is an MVP candidate. Maybe his bid isn't as strong as Giannis', but he's a candidate nonetheless. Best center in the league bar none.

:applause: