Longer than intended video on the issues people have with Harden.

[Kblaze8855]

After like 3 years of trying to explain it without the fundamental problems sinking in to some im gonna spare my keys their customary whipping and simply post this in the future:


https://youtu.be/h68lIm3LcaM

None of my thoughts are expressed. Only NBA players, coaches, and legends with accompanying clips and just the slightest hit of my customary douchebaggery.

I dont think I can explain it any better than they did.

They...like I...no doubt know hes an incredible talent and that he could easily explode at any moment this series for 45-55 and steal wins. The sooner his supporters understand that these things dont make him bad at basketball in the eyes of people saying it...just annoying....the better off we all will be.

For now....ill leave the talking to Fisher, Webber, Reggie, Tmac, Kerr, and so on....and drop the issue. I cant explain it any better than they did.

[E_Stamkos]

Seems like him complaining about officiating has really heightened the public outcry against him.

Fisher's rundown was well delivered.
Whether he's hooking the arm, going left or right and then up... He's seemingly always trying to create the appearance of a foul.

And when you publically bicker about others.... It's gunna rub folks the wrong way. Especially when a large portion of your game is predicated on drawing bullshit fouls.

[stalkerforlife]

About three minutes in.

Great video.

And the song you put in lol.

[SpaceJam2]

Wow the one on Paul George is horrible :lol Completely body wraps him up

Some of those step backs looked like legit fouls though...:confusedshrug:

Having said that, Harden outchea like

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c85b38c2900404e9c73372933d04d854/tumblr_o6eh09lj1j1qejocno1_250.gif

[Kblaze8855]

About three minutes in.

Great video.

And the song you put in lol.


You have no idea how out of hand it could have been. I had to hold back and restrict the sound clips to keep it halfway professional.


Some of those step backs looked like legit fouls though...

Thats the problem. He has become so good at pretending he got knocked down....and he does it so often....your standards change like they did with traveling. You see guys take 3 steps on maybe 80% of all layups/dunks now....so you dont even realize it anymore. That was a long time coming. They slowly started ignoring that decades ago and by the 90s you wouldnt see it called often. Now? They just pretend it isnt happening. You break a role often enough...the refs pretend they dont know better. Lebron with the off arm. Durants carry. Ewings across the lane travel fadeaway/hook. Reggie with the leg kick.

Harden is special because he built in flatly illegal moves and exaggerated contact in virtually every part of his game. He travels coming out of the triple threat(as do many people), he flops on any contact, he pushes off with the off arm, he will grab you to pretend you grabbed him, he will take 3....4....5 steps...he will find your arms for contact then pretend you hit him....he will jump forward on shots searching for contact so he can fall.

He does them all at such a rate you simply cant call it all and destroy the game of one of the leagues best players. The NBA wouldnt allow it even if the refs were right. As long as the refs will let you do it breaking the rules is just intelligent. It is. No doubt about it.

But his fans have to understand why fans of basketball look at it and think "WTF....". At what point are you not playing basketball? What makes it basketball if not following the rules of basketball? Long as youre dribbling and shooting its basketball even if you ignore the rules of movement, contact, and so on?

I feel like both sides should be able to be honest about 3 things.

He is cheating the game at a pretty insane rate.

Cheating is smart if you can get away with it and he absolutely should continue if the goal is helping his team win.

Being a cheater doesnt mean hes ineffective.

I dont know how anyone with a speck of honesty could deny any of those things.

Hes a legendary player.

Hes a massive cheater.

Both of those things can be true at the same time.

[RoseCity07]

I just can't watch him play. He doesn't play basketball. He's playing some wwe shit.

[Kblaze8855]

Seems like him complaining about officiating has really heightened the public outcry against him.

Fisher's rundown was well delivered.
Whether he's hooking the arm, going left or right and then up... He's seemingly always trying to create the appearance of a foul.

And when you publically bicker about others.... It's gunna rub folks the wrong way. Especially when a large portion of your game is predicated on drawing bullshit fouls.


Thats really one of the issues. Hes coming up on Laimbeer territory. Bill Laimbeer was the cheapest player in the NBA and one of the worst floppers....always taking advantage of the refs. But he was also one of the worst whiners. It was like.....how can you be both?

You trick the refs and get away with bullshit all game....how do you blow up when they dont give you a call? Stomp around and cry?

He was so easy to hate....and Harden is going down that path. Dont get a call? Get up and play. The refs gave you 380 questionable ones already. You need one EVERY time or they are out to get you?

[Kblaze8855]

I just can't watch him play. He doesn't play basketball. He's playing some wwe shit.


As I said I dont know when it stops being basketball.

We all agree And-1 wasnt basketball. But some of them didnt do any worse than the NBA allows now.

Nobody is as bad as hot sauce but Harden is essentially Bone Crusher. Hes straight up and 1 style at times. Which may be why he works out with them.....

[hold this L]

He just wants to be treated fairly.

[iamgine]

https://youtu.be/h68lIm3LcaM

The arm hooking thing should be offensive foul. Holy crap. But the defender's arm extending, like at 3:13 on the vid, seems like a clear foul.

Clear flops need to be penalized though. Like, a significant fine after the game or something.


The foot moving forward on shooting though, everyone does it.

For example, JJ Redick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPYu6vYp8xM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7coCrkMnTQ

I don't see much difference in them except people are not closing on Redick as hard as they did with Harden. A lot of the calls on this for Harden are actual fouls. I guess Harden baits people to move their body into his shooting area, which is fair play in my book.

[Kblaze8855]

A lot of people started doing it when Jamal Crawford mastered falling down to draw a 4 point play. Harden takes 12-18 threes a lot of games though so you might see him try it 6 times a night. As Fisher said hes great at appearing to attempt a genuine shot when its an overt attempt to tangle his feet by jumping slightly forward. You can tell on the ones he misses brutally and goes crazy over not getting the call. That guy is too practiced making contested shots to miss as badly as he does on those obvious searching for a foul situations. Hes not focused on the shot. Hes focused on catching the defender with his left foot and then falling safely. He lands like a feather and never takes a hard spill because he jumps with the intention to fall Jamal Crawford style. People have insane balance when they want to. He falls because it makes the ref call something. Hes the master at making it look legit...but other players see what hes doing. You simply dont fall that easily on such a regular basis even when touched. Hes always straight to the ground. No attempt to catch it and stay up. Its like when Nazr halfway pushed Lebron and he fell 25 feet. You or I wouldnt fall on a tiny shove...unless we wanted someone to see it.

Theres always contact...but he exaggerates it and you know it rubs refs the wrong way knowing they got fooled later. It would piss me off too. Hes getting over on you all night then calling you out over not getting 2-3 calls when hes getting more than anyone? Refs must be crazy bitter about it. You know the refs look at that stat sheet and see the Rockets took 47 threes and still got 30 FTs and want to release a statement saying "Shut the **** up".

[RoseCity07]

I've always wondered why Harden doesn't see the pattern. There's a pattern that has developed over his career. All the flops he gets for 82 games don't work in the playoffs.

He should use the regular season to try winning without legitimate moves. It's like he's studying all the wrong things for a big test. His game actually makes me not want to watch basketball. He's a clown.

[Kblaze8855]

Hes right to play this way if only because hes gradually changing the standard to allow more and more of it. Its like Karl malone explained to Playboy in the 80s. He intentionally broke the rules because he knew they wouldnt just foul him out every game. He pushed and pushed to set a new standard for how to officiate him. He admitted he liked seeing how far he could get them to move the line...then moving that line after a whole. It was a premeditated tactic. And it works.

Refs will NOT call you on your shit if you do it all the time because they dont wanna be the story. Refs are like the offensive line. You dont want your name mentioned because its always bad. Nobody sees you stop the guy on 58 plays. They remember him beating you on 4 sacks though. Refs know 4 plays gets them hated even if 160 were fine. They will just...look the other way eventually. If they call Harden for offensive fouls on the arm hooks and leg kicks they would have their lives threatened in Houston and be the biggest story....not the players.

Refs doing their job would be a disaster for them.

And Harden knows it like Malone knew it.

It is absolutely the right thing to do when they will let you do it. Not morally...but to win?

It doesnt work in the playoffs....yet. But it will eventually. The day is coming they will just ignore the manipulation in the playoffs too just like they do traveling.

You see high school kids falling on every 3 and using the off arm and traveling. Youtube videos show how to flop like Harden and push off like Lebron. They call them "moves" and kids learn it.

This is basketball from here on out.

[STATUTORY]

Clippers commentator said it the best, the things Harden do just isn't playing basketball, it's gaming the refs

[Kblaze8855]

They are literally teaching kids to do this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyNO0-AZKFk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr4nX3FdDiE




Belegendary 24
I did it and I had 16 free throws attempts bruh In one game



Great video man, keep up the great work. i love every video and this video was good as well especially for my game.




Tax Fax
4 months ago
I got a game tomorrow wish me luck.

You think those are adults? These are kids adding this shit to their game. You post videos like:


How To Draw Fouls Like JAMES HARDEN *FOR ELITE PLAYERS ONLY*



Kids in middle and high school watch it...and go do it.

In 6-8 years the entire draft class will have come up in the world where this is the most effective way to score....and by then it will be accepted in the playoffs too. James Harden is why every young guard has a step back.

Watch the high end HS tournaments.

All the guards have the Stepdaddy 3 and know how to fall.

Harden is influencing as many kids as Steph.

When the entire league came up doing it what can the league do but neuter its own stars or accept it? And which way do you think that goes? They have tv contracts to negotiate.

If we all went into a coma and woke up in 20 years and watch an NBA game James Harden of today will probably be considered the godfather of modern offense.

[Ben Simmons 25]

If we all went into a coma and woke up in 20 years and watch an NBA game James Harden of today will probably be considered the godfather of modern offense.

:mad:

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/puking_brian.gif

[ImKobe]

Wasn't it in 2012 or 2013 that the NBA started giving out fines for flopping? What ever happened to that?

There's no consequence to what Harden is doing, other than him missing the shot and not getting the call. You can't obviously expect the refs to be able to penalize them for it in real time, but if there are moments, such as Harden kicking out his legs or CP3 throwing his ass sideways mid-air, where they should be fined and possibly suspended if they do it a number of times over the season.

[Kblaze8855]

:mad:

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/puking_brian.gif


Thats about the timeline these things go. About 10-12 years past the new style you get the first wave of kids who played it all their lives. Doc and David Thompson types come in 70-74....10-12 years later you have MJ in the league influenced by that style. After 84 you get 10-12 years for Jordan to change the fate of Stackhouse, Kobe, VC, and all those swingmen who came up on him.

Steph and Harden started changing how kids played about 5 years ago. The first wave of kids who werent taught a stepback 28 footer was a bad shot? They are in middle school and early high school. They are a good 5-6 years from being the entire youth movement. But imagine the kids behind them.

The current grade school kids you can watch taking nothing but threes right now. Those kids will learn Hardens foul drawing, Steph and Lilliards range, and come up in a world where spacing is more important than making or missing one shot. Teams already have guys practice with a 4 point line to get in the habit of spacing in games. They dont care about a missed 30 footer. They just want the defense to have to respect you possibly taking it.

Harden took 16 threes a game for like a month. 13-14 for the year?

We are 15 years from the first player to average 20 threes a game and never drive. It sounds impossible....but these kids are coming.

[FKAri]

Wasn't it in 2012 or 2013 that the NBA started giving out fines for flopping? What ever happened to that?

There's no consequence to what Harden is doing, other than him missing the shot and not getting the call. You can't obviously expect the refs to be able to penalize them for it in real time, but if there are moments, such as Harden kicking out his legs or CP3 throwing his ass sideways mid-air, where they should be fined and possibly suspended if they do it a number of times over the season.
This is entertainment. The competitive aspect of basketball is secondary. That's just how it is and how it always will be (even in other sports).

[ImKobe]

This is entertainment. The competitive aspect of basketball is secondary. That's just how it is and how it always will be (even in other sports).

Flopping is the most common in soccer, and I've seen players get yellow/red cards for flopping egregiously... Why can't they do the same in the NBA? All you have to do is look back at the tape if there are any serious complaints from the media/players about a certain play and fine/suspend players accordingly.

I know it's entertainment at the end of the day, but the ref baiting needs to stop.

[iamgine]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CriminalBigheartedCopperbutterfly-size_restricted.gif

[STATUTORY]

This is entertainment. The competitive aspect of basketball is secondary. That's just how it is and how it always will be (even in other sports).

there's nothing entertaining about ref baiting, for that reason alone they need to minimize its occurrence and make an example out of Harden

if more players started playing for fouls as egregiously as Harden, NBA will become even more unwatchable than it is now.

[FKAri]

Flopping is the most common in soccer, and I've seen players get yellow/red cards for flopping egregiously... Why can't they do the same in the NBA? All you have to do is look back at the tape if there are any serious complaints from the media/players about a certain play and fine/suspend players accordingly.

I know it's entertainment at the end of the day, but the ref baiting needs to stop.
Flopping is a much deeper problem in the NBA than in the highest levels of soccer. Calls can really swing a game in soccer and there is much more incentive to flop but there are also harsh punishments. There are NO punishments for it in the NBA and as a result it happens CONSTANTLY. In EVERY play. We are so used to watching it that we no longer notice how prevalent it is.

[Loco 50]

Flopping is the most common in soccer, and I've seen players get yellow/red cards for flopping egregiously... Why can't they do the same in the NBA? All you have to do is look back at the tape if there are any serious complaints from the media/players about a certain play and fine/suspend players accordingly.

I know it's entertainment at the end of the day, but the ref baiting needs to stop.
Fines are good, but I'd go further. If a play occurs in which a foul is called, requiring a review later discovers that stoppage happened because of a flop, then technical free throws should be awarded and a flopping tally can be taken. You flop too much, suspension. End of problem.

[E_Stamkos]

The question is, did he open up Pandora's box this series by whining about it?

Will the refs call a straight game? Will they bite into his wishes? Or will they spite him for it?

I really hope it's the former. Notwithstanding his bickering, I don't wanna see anything retaliatory play out. But as we know... Refs aren't made out of metal. They can be emotional divas themselves. Sometimes more so than the players. His complaining might just end up biting him in the arse.


Good thread/video Blaze

[ImKobe]

Fines are good, but I'd go further. If a play occurs in which a foul is called, requiring a review later discovers that stoppage happened because of a flop, then technical free throws should be awarded and a flopping tally can be taken. You flop too much, suspension. End of problem.

Good idea. Flopping really has no place in basketball, especially in late-game situations.

[Loco 50]

The question is, did he open up Pandora's box this series by whining about it?

Will the refs call a straight game? Will they bite into his wishes? Or will they spite him for it?

I really hope it's the former. Notwithstanding his bickering, I don't wanna see anything retaliatory play out. But as we know... Refs aren't made out of metal. They can be emotional divas themselves. Sometimes more so than the players. His complaining might just end up biting him in the arse.


Good thread/video Blaze
You'd think D'Antoni, Paul, and Harden would learn from previous mistakes but it's the same old story. They play the victims, whine to the media and cry about the injustice of it all concerning unfair reffing, resulting in the refs swallowing their whistles more.

D'Antoni has pulled this shit every year he's been in the playoffs. One year it's a complaint about play being too physical for his taste, next year it's illegal screens, then it's players leaving the bench during a fight, and now it's flopping 50% of the time with potential dangerous undercutting happening the other 50%.

Meanwhile, Harden's antics were a bit unregistered until everyone wondered why Artest caved in his skull (not that Artest is a shining example of citizenship), but he kept poking the bear and got rightfully bit. Now he crafts his game on bending the rules more and more every year.

Finally, good old heliflopter Paul usually gets hurt before he can really take flight.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdufbv2nwDY/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

[E_Stamkos]

Heliflopter Paul lolololololol

So good

[Ghost1]

Luka Doncic says he's studied James Harden's game, "especially the drawing fouls and the stepback. I watch a lot of his film, for sure."

[Kblaze8855]

Luka Doncic says he's studied James Harden's game, "especially the drawing fouls and the stepback. I watch a lot of his film, for sure."


^

The beginning.

[Kblaze8855]

^

The beginning.


Someone give me a good

[ImKobe]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/b2a05a804aaf7f8186e73c595dec7fea/tumblr_nh84c95qMa1qcmnsoo3_r1_250.gif

[Ben Simmons 25]

^

The beginning.

If every player turns into James Harden I will without question stop watching entirely. No, that

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Been saying it for years now.

They let Harden do this shit with impunity so there's nothing we can do about it. Except quit watching. Seeing him in the playoffs is the closest you'll get to Harden playing with the old rules. More defensive leeway. Less fouls. Better defense etc.

[Akhenaten]

If we all went into a coma and woke up in 20 years and watch an NBA game James Harden of today will probably be considered the godfather of modern offense.

That is terrifying.

[E_Stamkos]

The ending

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/basketball-health-12347271.jpg