most complete 2 way player in nba history. 2003 Kobe or 2019 Kawhi?

[kennethgriffen]

both good selections in my book. i'd go with kawhi though


nobody else was perfect at every area of scoring and defending with elite athleticism, prime bodies etc..


either guy could win a dunk contest, three point contest and a skills challenge. then win allstar game MVP the next night while blocking lebron multiple times/forcing him to pass on the last possession to add insult to injury


http://contents.spin.ph/image/image/2019/04/18/kobe-kawhi-2-1555583140.jpg

[StrongLurk]

cringe

[Smoke117]

Hakeem Olajuwon 1993. And weren't you supposed to leave the NBA board forever? David Robinson was also a more complete player than both for numerous seasons himself. Kobe in general never came close to even Kawhi defensively much less Hakeem or Robinson. Picking him as the most complete player is a joke when you have guys like Hakeem and Robinson who were dropping 26-30ppg while being about 100 times more impactful defensively.

[red1]

we're gonna lose the next two games in a row thanks a lot dipshit. should've stayed banned that was our good luck charm.

[NBASTATMAN]

brickbe it the most complete brick layer in NBA HISTORY :lol

[FKAri]

There was some guy in the 90s who was pretty good. Mike Gordon? Someone help me out. I can remember the face just not the name.

[kennethgriffen]

Hakeem Olajuwon 1993. And weren't you supposed to leave the NBA board forever?


1993 hakeem was 0 for 8 on threes that year


:biggums:


kobe and kawhi could post up and do practically any move on the block



sorry... kobe and kawhi perfected more things

[Dray n Klay]

2019 LeBron

[3ball]

both good selections in my book. i'd go with kawhi though


nobody else was perfect at every area of scoring and defending with elite athleticism, prime bodies etc..


either guy could win a dunk contest, three point contest and a skills challenge. then win allstar game MVP the next night while blocking lebron multiple times/forcing him to pass on the last possession to add insult to injury


http://contents.spin.ph/image/image/2019/04/18/kobe-kawhi-2-1555583140.jpg
That's actually a good and truthful OP if you read it all the way through

But I'd go with Kobe over Kawhi because his scoring edge was actually quite significant:

Only Kobe and MJ averaged over 30 in a Finals where the pace was under 90 - this covers a big sample size going back to 1974 when pace was first tracked

Kobe averaged 32 ppg in 2009 with 87 pace, while MJ averaged 34 ppg in 98' with 82 pace.. and 32 in 97' with 84 pace

So Kobe is literally the 2nd goat scorer, this giving him too big of an advantage in that area over Kawhi

[kennethgriffen]

There was some guy in the 90s who was pretty good. Mike Gordon? Someone help me out. I can remember the face just not the name.


jordan was past his athletic prime when he finally started hitting 1 three a game and it was with a shorter line. can't say he was more complete. sorry

[AussieSteve]

Being completely honest...

2012 / 2013 lebron

[RRR3]

Being completely honest...

2012 / 2013 lebron
Incoming Kenny meltdown.

[TheCorporation]

2012 or 2013 LBJ

Duh

[Ben Simmons 25]

"I'm not posting here any more" like five separate times... posts within 24 hours...

Keeps posting and pretends like nobody will notice...

STFU ******.

[kennethgriffen]

Being completely honest...

2012 / 2013 lebron


ever heard of mid range? post up? foot work? clutch? counters? free throws?



even if he could hit a wide open 3 and wasn't total ass on defense yet the guy had so many holes in his game


kobe and kawhi were swiss army knives. lebron was swiss cheese

[3ball]

jordan was past his athletic prime when he finally started hitting 1 three a game and it was with a shorter line. can't say he was more complete. sorry
False

MJ averaged 1.1 makes on 3.0 tries in 1990 (37.6%)

He also shot 43% on threes during the 91-93 Finals on 3.3 attempts (24-57)...

But he was only 2-4 in the 1991 Finals - so for just the 92/93 Finals, he was 22-53, or 41% on 4.2 attempts..

Overall, he was 35.2% on threes in the 85-93' playoffs on 2.2 attempts

[Dray n Klay]

ever heard of mid range? post up? foot work? clutch? counters? free throws?



even if he could hit a wide open 3 and wasn't total ass on defense yet the guy had so many holes in his game


kobe and kawhi were swiss army knives. lebron was swiss cheese


How many 30 point triple doubles did Kobe/Kawhi get those seasons

[kennethgriffen]

False

MJ averaged 1.1 makes on 3.0 tries in 1990 (37.6%)

He also shot 43% on threes during the 91-93 Finals on 3.3 attempts (24-57)...

But he was only 2-4 in the 1991 Finals - so for just the 92/93 Finals, he was 22-53, or 41% on 4.2 attempts..

Overall, he was 35.2% on threes in the 85-93' playoffs on 2.2 attempts



they dared jordan to take those shots though... guys pick up kobe and kawhi at mid court

[3ball]

By definition:

dpoy + scoring champ = goat 2-way player

Has anyone ever done that?

Or who's the player with the most seasons achieving BOTH first-team all-nba and defense?

[TheCorporation]

Being completely honest...

2012 / 2013 lebron

:eek: :applause: :applause:

[kennethgriffen]

By definition:

dpoy + scoring champ = goat 2-way player

Has anyone ever done that?

Or who's the player with the most seasons achieving BOTH first-team all-nba and defense?


jordan was more dominant .. the era had a lot to do with it though


imagine if kawhi and kobe could bully guys the way jordan could. plus his position was watered down back then



this is about the best/most complete though

[Dray n Klay]

jordan was more dominant .. the era had a lot to do with it though


imagine if kawhi and kobe could bully guys the way jordan could. plus his position was watered down back then



this is about the best/most complete though


Rebounds/assists?

[k0kakw0rld]

This guy post here in order to feel accepted. Get a life you fvckin moron.

[scuzzy]

Kobe's man-2-man D faded quickly after Shaq bounced and forced him to take on the #1 scoring load plus opposing teams full attention.

No hate, that's just what it was

Almost all of his defensive awards came from milking that 10 year drought in talent at the G/SG position

[MrFonzworth]

This guy post here in order to feel accepted. Get a life you fvckin moron.
This. Dude made a quitting thread solely for attention and now hes back at it a week later. Dude couldnt quit if he wanted to.

[egokiller]

dpoy + scoring champ = goat 2-way player

And it was done during a time when you actually were allowed to play defense.

Back when guys had to dribble up court with their back to the defender because the defense was just that overwhelming due to hand check. :applause:

[TheCorporation]

Kobe's man-2-man D faded quickly after Shaq bounced and forced him to take on the #1 scoring load plus opposing teams full attention.

No hate, that's just what it was

Almost all of his defensive awards came from milking that 10 year drought in talent at the G/SG position


This

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe nor Kawhi were as dominant as 1990-93 Jordan.

2-way player? Mike has them beat there too.

[3ball]

they dared jordan to take those shots though... guys pick up kobe and kawhi at mid court
They only dared him in Game 1 and MJ taught them a lesson with the shrug game - after that, everyone knew better yet he still shot 41% on 4.2 attempts for the 92' and 93' Finals

And guarding Kobe or Kawhi close doesn't hurt you as much as MJ because they aren't as devastating going to the hole

Only MJ has 9 straight seasons of BOTH first team nba and defense

[Vino24]

LeBron's all around game is much BIGGER and THICKER. Where are those rebounds and assists?

[kennethgriffen]

Kobe nor Kawhi were as dominant as 1990-93 Jordan.

2-way player? Mike has them beat there too.


https://i.ibb.co/7JZxZM6/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-31-44-PM.png


https://i.ibb.co/JsxMk44/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-34-32-PM.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ygs3IHJ2bM

[Vino24]

Kobe maintained his averages and slightly under in the playoffs. He never improved or went off the deeper in the playoffs he got. Really underwhelming.

[3ball]

LeBron's all around game is much BIGGER and THICKER. Where are those rebounds and assists?
Yeah but his scoring sucks compared to Kobe or MJ:

Only Kobe and MJ averaged over 30 in a Finals where the pace was under 90 - this covers a big sample size going back to 1974 when pace was first tracked

Lebron is nowhere near this - he only averaged 33 when pace was 100 and DRtg was 115.. :cry: :facepalm

Kobe or MJ would've been well over 40 in that scenario... lebron simply isn't on Kobe's level, let alone mj

[NBASTATMAN]

kawhi shits on KOBE ON DEFENSE AND OFFENSE WHEN YOU CONSIDER EFFICIENCY..

The most complete two way player ever IS MJ especially in the playoffs.. Efficient ,dominating, and after 92 hit threes at really good clip..

[kennethgriffen]

Kobe maintained his averages and slightly under in the playoffs. He never improved or went off the deeper in the playoffs he got. Really underwhelming.



changing the way your team plays isn't a smart strategy


if anything kobe dialed it back and got others involved more often when it mattered most. he was a decoy in 1st quarters of a lot of playoff games to make shaq or gasol happy so theyed play defense and hustle. kobe knew how to take care of his co stars

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://i.ibb.co/7JZxZM6/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-31-44-PM.png


https://i.ibb.co/JsxMk44/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-34-32-PM.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ygs3IHJ2bM

And?

Jordan >

Not like your opinion matters, you racist worldstar **** :oldlol:

[Vino24]

changing the way your team plays isn't a smart strategy


if anything kobe dialed it back and got others involved more often when it mattered most. he was a decoy in 1st quarters of a lot of playoff games to make shaq or gasol happy so theyed play defense and hustle. kobe knew how to take care of his co stars
Kobe still chucked that's why his percentages were subpar compared to other all time greats. Obviously he was okay with it because he had the best frontcourt in the league.

[kennethgriffen]

And?

Jordan >

Not like your opinion matters, you racist worldstar **** :oldlol:


so in a discussion about three point shooting between curry and klay would you come in flailing your arms like a team america ph@ggot saying "who cares. shaq > curry and klay"


https://media.giphy.com/media/zLBQYkwGGQdJC/giphy.gif


???




this isn't about who was more dominant you f*cking hot sweaty dog turd of a moron

[Vino24]

Yeah but his scoring sucks compared to Kobe or MJ:

Only Kobe and MJ averaged over 30 in a Finals where the pace was under 90 - this covers a big sample size going back to 1974 when pace was first tracked

Lebron is nowhere near this - he only averaged 33 when pace was 100 and DRtg was 115.. :cry: :facepalm

Kobe or MJ would've been well over 40 in that scenario... lebron simply isn't on Kobe's level, let alone mj
nice arbitrary fact. LeLOAD led everyone in everything. only player to do it. :eek:

[kennethgriffen]

Kobe still chucked that's why his percentages were subpar compared to other all time greats. Obviously he was okay with it because he had the best frontcourt in the league.


kobes point per shot was identical to MJ's... he got to the line and hit enough threes to make up for his immensely difficult shot selection. he did it to demoralize opponents and make them quit defensively so his teammates could take advantage. how many free layups did other guys get cutting to the basket in the triangle after kobe would knock down a few fall away threes


go back and watch the 2010 WCF game 6 between the suns and lakers


he made nash cry for god sakes. the air got sucked out of the building. thats how you make an impact. not by dropping 63 in the playoffs and losing... by hitting 37 with a dozen insane god mode shots and winning

[TheCorporation]

so in a discussion about three point shooting between curry and klay would you come in flailing your arms like a team america ph@ggot saying "who cares. shaq > curry and klay"


https://media.giphy.com/media/zLBQYkwGGQdJC/giphy.gif


???




this isn't about who was more dominant you f*cking hot sweaty dog turd of a moron

meltdown

Yikes maybe it was better for you to quit and get off this board

[kennethgriffen]

nice arbitrary fact. LeLOAD led everyone in everything. only player to do it. :eek:


woops.. almost forgot one



https://i.ibb.co/sKBQzL1/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-53-25-PM.png

[Vino24]

woops.. almost forgot one



https://i.ibb.co/8P5gfFt/Screen-Shot-2019-05-06-at-11-52-07-PM.png
Good. Have discussions with yourself for all I care :oldlol:

[NBASTATMAN]

Yeah but his scoring sucks compared to Kobe or MJ:

Only Kobe and MJ averaged over 30 in a Finals where the pace was under 90 - this covers a big sample size going back to 1974 when pace was first tracked

Lebron is nowhere near this - he only averaged 33 when pace was 100 and DRtg was 115.. :cry: :facepalm

Kobe or MJ would've been well over 40 in that scenario... lebron simply isn't on Kobe's level, let alone mj

:facepalm

Lebron put up way better numbers vs Orlando than Kobe did that same playoffs.. Kobe had GASOL shooting 60 percent and shutting down DHOWARD while Lebron had Mo Williams shooting 37 percent as his second option.. This just shows you how much better Lebron was in 2009..

Same team except Kobe had the best squad alongside of him.. Marc Jackson commented on TV .. The LAKERS should win they have the best team during
the NBA FINALS.

So Lebron the GOAT SCORER ALONG WITH MJ.. THANKS FOR PLAYING COME AGAIN .. :banana: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so in a discussion about three point shooting between curry and klay would you come in flailing your arms like a team america ph@ggot saying "who cares. shaq > curry and klay"


https://media.giphy.com/media/zLBQYkwGGQdJC/giphy.gif


???




this isn't about who was more dominant you f*cking hot sweaty dog turd of a moron

You're slow as **** lmao

Me saying "AND?" was in reply to my quote.

I didn't mince words.

Mike was a better 2-way player than both of them. That includes "most complete".

There wasn't anything Jordan couldn't do they did. Or in Kawhi's case DOES. Stick to worldstar guy. Where you can troll and wont expose yourself as a muppet.

[NBASTATMAN]

nice arbitrary fact. LeLOAD led everyone in everything. only player to do it. :eek:


GOAT.. :applause: :bowdown:

[3ball]

:facepalm

Lebron put up way better numbers vs Orlando than Kobe did that same playoffs..

:
Stan van Gundy said that was because they let lebron go 1-on-1 and freeze out his teammates who suffered and had no rhythm, while Kobe played winning, team ball and teammates thrived

[TheCorporation]

Stan van Gundy said that was because they let lebron go 1-on-1 and freeze out his teammates who suffered and had no rhythm, while Kobe played winning, team ball and teammates thrived

Yeah, they let him get 39-8-8 on 49% :lol

Cute

[NBASTATMAN]

Stan van Gundy said that was because they let lebron go 1-on-1 and freeze out his teammates who suffered and had no rhythm, while Kobe played winning, team ball and teammates thrived


EXCept Lebron avg 8 assists and his team avg more assists per game than Kobes TEAM .. YOU LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT SO ..

NICE TRY COME AGAIN .. :roll:

STAN SAYS LEBRON THE GOAT.. YOU MUST AGREE AS WELL..

[3ball]

nice arbitrary fact. LeLOAD led everyone in everything. only player to do it. :eek:
He had an equal scoring partner who closed

Who cares about the rare times that lebron's westbrooking got lucky enough to win

Lebron is an entirely inferior scorer - this results in 3/9 because his lack of scoring versatility (ball-dominator only) doesn't fit with all player types or a good brand of ball, so his teams are worse, 3/9

[NBASTATMAN]

LEBRON THE GOAT SCORER ALONG SIDE MJ.. He bests Kobes best... :roll: :banana:

taking 3BALL DOWN IS TOO EASY..