if 90s baseball awards were voted on like they are now. Griffey probly wins 5 MVPs

[kennethgriffen]

1993 AL MVP Frank Thomas WAR = 6.2, Ken Griffey Jr 8.8 ( frank wasn't even top 10 )

1994 AL MVP Frank Thomas WAR = 6.4, Ken Griffey Jr 6.9

1995 AL MVP Mo Vaughn WAR = 4.3, not even top 10 ( griffey was hurt anyway )

1996 AL MVP Juan Gonzalez WAR = 3.8, Ken Griffey Jr 9.7 ( juan wasn't even top 10 )

1997 AL MVP Ken Griffey JR ( about time )

1998 AL MVP Juan Gonzalez WAR = 4.9, Ken Griffey Jr 6.6 ( juan wasn't even top 10 )



considering the defensive play he was way more valuable than the guys winning the award.

[warriorfan]

Barry Bonds has 7 MVPs

2nd place has 3

[kennethgriffen]

Barry Bonds has 7 MVPs

2nd place has 3


4 of them came after using steroids though


griffeys real 5 > bonds clean 3

[warriorfan]

https://ohfact.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Methamphetamine.gif..

[kennethgriffen]

..


theres a reason griffey broke the record for the highest hall of fame score and bonds is still on the outside looking in

[warriorfan]

theres a reason griffey broke the record for the highest hall of fame score and bonds is still on the outside looking in

The baseball hall of fame is a complete joke.

[ShawkFactory]

Bonds had WAR seasons of 9.7, 8.2, 8.1, and 8.0 twice where he didn't win MVP

The MVP winners and their WAR?

1989: Kevin Mitchell 6.9 (Bonds 8.0)
1991: Terry Pendelton 6.1 (Bonds 8.0)
1996: Ken Caminiti 7.9 (Bonds 9.7)
1997: Larry Walker 9.7 (Bonds 8.2)
1998: Sammy Sosa 6.5 (Bonds 8.1)

Give Bonds 4 more MVPs while you're adding some to Griffey.

Top 10 WAR seasons between Griffey and pre-roids Bonds:
1. Bonds 9.9
2. Bonds 9.7
2. Bonds 9.7
2. Griffey 9.7
5. Griffey 9.1
6. Bonds 9.0
7. Griffey 8.8
8. Bonds 8.2
9. Bonds 8.1
10. Bonds 8.0

Bonds has numbers 11 and 12 too.

[kennethgriffen]

Bonds had WAR seasons of 9.7, 8.2, 8.1, and 8.0 twice where he didn't win MVP

The MVP winners and their WAR?

1989: Kevin Mitchell 6.9 (Bonds 8.0)
1991: Terry Pendelton 6.1 (Bonds 8.0)
1996: Ken Caminiti 7.9 (Bonds 9.7)
1997: Larry Walker 9.7 (Bonds 8.2)
1998: Sammy Sosa 6.5 (Bonds 8.1)

Give Bonds 4 more MVPs while you're adding some to Griffey.

Top 10 WAR seasons between Griffey and pre-roids Bonds:
1. Bonds 9.9
2. Bonds 9.7
2. Bonds 9.7
2. Griffey 9.7
5. Griffey 9.1
6. Bonds 9.0
7. Griffey 8.8
8. Bonds 8.2
9. Bonds 8.1
10. Bonds 8.0

Bonds has numbers 11 and 12 too.


the national league back then was pretty watered down TBH


and i'm not even saying WAR is a proper way to judge players. i'm just saying if they voted on mvps the way they do now griffey would have more

[kennethgriffen]

people say bonds was a great defensive player too. but he covered far less area in the outfield than griffey did. so while his defensive numbers/accolades look nice. its in a much easier position


theres a reason guys like griffey, trout, mantle, mays, cobb, speaker, dimaggio all played center field

[ShawkFactory]

the national league back then was pretty watered down TBH
I don't even know to which point I made you're referring to, or what it even has to do with anything, or that you even remotely know that to be true.

There's pretty hard evidence I just gave..

[kennethgriffen]

I don't even know to which point I made you're referring to, or what it even has to do with anything, or that you even remotely know that to be true.

There's pretty hard evidence I just gave..



stats get inflated playing in a shit league

[kennethgriffen]

imagine if griffeys competition for MVP was terry pendleton and andry van slyke instead of frank thomas

:lol

[ShawkFactory]

people say bonds was a great defensive player too. but he covered far less area in the outfield than griffey did. so while his defensive numbers/accolades look nice. its in a much easier position


theres a reason guys like griffey, trout, mantle, mays, cobb, speaker, dimaggio all played center field
Jesus Christ you know nothing about baseball. Centerfield is the most overrated position possible. 98% of outfielders (other than a butcher in the NL who's only there because he can hit and can't play any infield position) can play any outfield position. The difference in ground covered is so overstated.

Shortstop and 3rd base are by far the most valuable defensive positions.

You don't see guys who can't hit playing centerfield...because a lot of people can do it.

Shortstop? Completely different story.

[ShawkFactory]

imagine if griffeys competition for MVP was terry pendleton and andry van slyke instead of frank thomas

:lol
I literally posted the WAR for each player and each season.

Statistical evidence.

Pendelton had a higher WAR in 1991 than either Juan Gonzalez MVP season. By 2 full wins.

Kevin Mitchell had a higher WAR in 1989 than either of Frank Thomas's MVP years.

Caminiti had a higher war in 1996 than any season Frank Thomas ever had.

Etc.

[JohnnySic]

Bonds and Griffey Jr were the greatest players of their generation. That said, Bonds was better.

[bigkingsfan]

No one gave a fk about Griffey after he left the Mariners. Oh well, we'll always have his SNES games.

[kennethgriffen]

Jesus Christ you know nothing about baseball. Centerfield is the most overrated position possible. 98% of outfielders (other than a butcher in the NL who's only there because he can hit and can't play any infield position) can play any outfield position. The difference in ground covered is so overstated.

Shortstop and 3rd base are by far the most valuable defensive positions.

You don't see guys who can't hit playing centerfield...because a lot of people can do it.

Shortstop? Completely different story.


tell us more

:lol

[kennethgriffen]

No one gave a fk about Griffey after he left the Mariners. Oh well, we'll always have his SNES games.


yeah because of injuries. we know what might have been. the guy was on pace for 850 homeruns before injuries took over

[kennethgriffen]

Bonds and Griffey Jr were the greatest players of their generation. That said, Bonds was better.


and that being said. bonds was a cheater and never made the hall of fame because of it

[kennethgriffen]

I literally posted the WAR for each player and each season.

Statistical evidence.

Pendelton had a higher WAR in 1991 than either Juan Gonzalez MVP season. By 2 full wins.

Kevin Mitchell had a higher WAR in 1989 than either of Frank Thomas's MVP years.

Caminiti had a higher war in 1996 than any season Frank Thomas ever had.

Etc.


shit league = inflated stats



oh yeah and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Players_Choice_Awards

https://i.ibb.co/mH8dVy8/Screen-Shot-2019-05-10-at-2-21-35-PM.png

[ShawkFactory]

tell us more

:lol
I....did?

Like..literally the rest of the words of my post was me telling you more.

The ground covered is negligible.

A very good centerfielder holds nowhere near the defensive value of a very good SS or 3rd basemen. The difference between a good infielder and an average one is split seconds...which is also the difference between a hit or not a lot of times. There is a lot more wiggle room for centerfielders, all of whom are fast and have strong arms.

And a very good centerfielder CERTAINLY doesn't hold enough value over a very good defensive LF to make up for the LF being better at every aspect of the offensive side of the game, aside from raw HR numbers.

[ShawkFactory]

shit league = inflated stats



oh yeah and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Players_Choice_Awards

https://i.ibb.co/mH8dVy8/Screen-Shot-2019-05-10-at-2-21-35-PM.png
Do you care to back this claim up in any way?

Like..explain how the NL was a shit league. Explain how that would inflate someone's stats.

You know what DOES inflate/deflate someone's stats. Whether or not they play in a hitters/pitchers park.

Between Griffey and Bonds, can you guess who played in the largest pitchers park in the game? And can you guess who played in a bandbox notorious for home runs?

[kennethgriffen]

I....did?

Like..literally the rest of the words of my post was me telling you more.

The ground covered is negligible.

A very good centerfielder holds nowhere near the defensive value of a very good SS or 3rd basemen. The difference between a good infielder and an average one is split seconds...which is also the difference between a hit or not a lot of times. There is a lot more wiggle room for centerfielders, all of whom are fast and have strong arms.

And a very good centerfielder CERTAINLY doesn't hold enough value over a very good defensive LF to make up for the LF being better at every aspect of the offensive side of the game, aside from raw HR numbers.


tell us more means "i didn't read anything after that"


and still haven't

:lol

[kennethgriffen]

Do you care to back this claim up in any way?

Like..explain how the NL was a shit league. Explain how that would inflate someone's stats.

You know what DOES inflate/deflate someone's stats. Whether or not they play in a hitters/pitchers park.

Between Griffey and Bonds, can you guess who played in the largest pitchers park in the game? And can you guess who played in a bandbox notorious for home runs?


look at the players in line for league mvps... bonds competition was no name trash. the leagues trash if their best players are trash

[ShawkFactory]

Little fun experiment...

Griffey's home/away splits from 1993-2000 (the year he broke out to the last good year he had before injuries):

HR/AVG/OPS

Home: 184/.307/1.057
Away: 167/.274/.922

And now Bonds 1990-1999 (The year he broke out to two years before PED use became apparent):

HR/AVG/OPS

Home: 177/.297/1.037
Away: 184/.302/1.034

You want to talk about inflated stats??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

PS- Having a shitty MVP lineup in the NL (if this were actually the case..) would not inflate a hitters numbers big guy.

[warriorfan]

Shawl factory with some high iq posting

Bonds hit in literally the toughest parks in the league in Cabdlestick and Pacbell, and still dominated.