Kawhi Leonard or Chris Paul? Right now.

[elementally morale]

Both players' careers end today. None of them play any more games.

Who do you have as the better player?
And who is greater?
Also, which of these players you would select first at their peak?

(Not the same thing.)

[BigKobeFan]

Kawhi

[NBAGOAT]

kawhi is a better player, paul is greater. Not sure about peak.

[Proctor]

The Finals MVP

[dazzer87]

is this a joke?:facepalm . This board and cp0......:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Better career: CP0

Better player: Kawhi by several miles

[BigKobeFan]

Better career: CP0

Better player: Kawhi by several miles

How does cpbeta have a better career. One is a finals mvp. The other is a western conference finals virgin

[dazzer87]

Better career: CP0

Better player: Kawhi by several miles
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

How does cpbeta have a better career. One is a finals mvp. The other is a western conference finals virgin
Dude just played in the WCF last year

[BigKobeFan]

Dude just played in the WCF last year

Are u sure? It seems pretty insignificant

[elementally morale]

For the record, my opinion:

Better Player: Kawhi
Better Career: Even, but Kawhi will achieve more, Paul is not going to
Who I want on team at peak: Kawhi

[Smoke117]

Jordan

[Mr.GOAT2408]

How does cpbeta have a better career. One is a finals mvp. The other is a western conference finals virgin
Longevity, several AS and All-NBA selections. Only reason LeBron is in my top 20, got to factor those in

I already mentioned Kawhi being a much better player, but he has to keep it up by my criteria.

[1987_Lakers]

Bad time to ask this question since everyone is high off that Leonard game winner. You are going to get emotional responses instead of logical.

With that said Leonard is the better player at their peaks, but CP3 obviously has him beat in the career department.

[NBAGOAT]

peak cp3 was getting mvp votes with peak kobe and young lebron in the league. the peak edge isnt as obvious as some are making it out to be. Wasnt great in a loss in the playoffs to SA but not bad by any means either.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kawhi - clearly.

[elementally morale]

Bad time to ask this question since everyone is high off that Leonard game winner.

You are right on this one.

This thread is an offspring of another thread though. So I have my excuse. Still, you are right. Question would be better in July.

[1987_Lakers]

peak cp3 was getting mvp votes with peak kobe and young lebron in the league. the peak edge isnt as obvious as some are making it out to be. Wasnt great in a loss in the playoffs to SA but not bad by any means either.

I agree with this. CP3 at his peak was a GOAT level PG, only behind Magic and Curry, with that said I would take Kawhi, he just impacts the game at a higher level.

[NBAGOAT]

I agree with this. CP3 at his peak was a GOAT level PG, only behind Magic and Curry, with that said I would take Kawhi, he just impacts the game at a higher level.

agree. I throw in Oscar for peak too and maybe nash however. Just saying it's not like cp3's peak is poor like say stockton's and he's good only because of his longevity. He was easily the 3rd best player in the league with the clippers for a few years before curry broke out too.

[Smoke117]

I agree with this. CP3 at his peak was a GOAT level PG, only behind Magic and Curry, with that said I would take Kawhi, he just impacts the game at a higher level.

Kawhi has never had the impact CP3 had in 08 and 09. In that 09 season Paul had a monstrous 11.2bpm. Nobody else on that team even had a positive BPM and he led them to 49 wins.

[RRR3]

Kawhi has never had the impact CP3 had in 08 and 09. In that 09 season Paul had a monstrous 11.2bpm. Nobody else on that team even had a positive BPM and he led them to 49 wins.
OP is mad I laughed at him for saying CP3 isn’t too 50. That’s why he made this thread :lol

[elementally morale]

[QUOTE=RRR3]OP is mad I laughed at him for saying CP3 isn

[Smoke117]

[QUOTE=RRR3]OP is mad I laughed at him for saying CP3 isn

[stalkerforlife]

Are you kidding me?

Lol.

[Proctor]

Are you kidding me?

Lol.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200904270NOH.html

[elementally morale]

Chris Paul is clearly a top 50 player of all time. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinions regardless of how awful they are. At least I know not to read anything OP ever post again.


You would have a very tough time to put Paul in the top 25-30 range. And after that it gets really crowded and very hard to debate. Will come down to personal preference.

I'd say if there is ever a top 50 list in the next 10 years, CP3 is not going to be present on those lists. And even if he is, he is not making my list.

I have players I don't really like in my top 50. Like a Moses Malone. Or a Karl Malone. (No more Malones though.) Even a Scottie Pippen. Chris Paul? Just no. If I have Chris Paul I should have Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady, too. Whom I liked way more. And I have neither.

[Smoke117]

You would have a very tough time to put Paul in the top 25-30 range. And after that it gets really crowded and very hard to debate. Will come down to personal preference.

I'd say if there is ever a top 50 list in the next 10 years, CP3 is not going to be present on those lists. And even if he is, he is not making my list.

I have players I don't really like in my top 50. Like a Moses Malone. Or a Karl Malone. (No more Malones though.) Even a Scottie Pippen. Chris Paul? Just no. If I have Chris Paul I should have Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady, too. Whom I liked way more. And I have neither.

Yeah, it really doesn't come down to any kind of personal preference. If you don't have Chris Paul in the top 50 basketball players of all time you simply don't know anything about basketball. That's a fact, not an opinion.

[NBAGOAT]

You would have a very tough time to put Paul in the top 25-30 range. And after that it gets really crowded and very hard to debate. Will come down to personal preference.

I'd say if there is ever a top 50 list in the next 10 years, CP3 is not going to be present on those lists. And even if he is, he is not making my list.

I have players I don't really like in my top 50. Like a Moses Malone. Or a Karl Malone. (No more Malones though.) Even a Scottie Pippen. Chris Paul? Just no. If I have Chris Paul I should have Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady, too. Whom I liked way more. And I have neither.

you say like it's a debate putting in moses, karl, or pippen in your top 50 when most have them top 25 all time. Who are the other guys in your top 50?

[LONGTIME]

For the record, my opinion:

Better Player: Kawhi
Better Career: Even, but Kawhi will achieve more, Paul is not going to
Who I want on team at peak: Kawhi

How are they even?

[elementally morale]

you say like it's a debate putting in moses, karl, or pippen in your top 50 when most have them top 25 all time. Who are the other guys in your top 50?

Top 50 is hard to make. I usually don't rate anyone before 1980. That was the time I started watching. So putting in the wilts and russels and oscars or mikans is tough. So let's forget all those players and just do a list after 1980. Not in order.


Jordan
Magic
LeBron
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Garnett
Barkley
Isiah
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Wade
Erving
Pippen
Robinson
Walton

That's 20 players. Easily. Then we have old timers.

Wilt
Russell
Oscar
The Logo
Mikan

These 25 are easily better/greater than Chris Paul. And I may have forgotten some. Then come players who were no worse than CP3 but with better results. The stoktons, nashes, havliceks.

And then talented players. The mcgradys, carters, and so ons.


Chris Paul? You may argue top 50. I won't have him there.

[elementally morale]

How are they even?


CP3 did more in more years. Achieved less.

[NBAGOAT]

Top 50 is hard to make. I usually don't rate anyone before 1980. That was the time I started watching. So putting in the wilts and russels and oscars or mikans is tough. So let's forget all those players and just do a list after 1980. Not in order.


Jordan
Magic
LeBron
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Garnett
Barkley
Isiah
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Wade
Erving
Pippen
Robinson
Walton

That's 20 players. Easily. Then we have old timers.

Wilt
Russell
Oscar
The Logo
Mikan

These 25 are easily better/greater than Chris Paul. And I may have forgotten some. Then come players who were no worse than CP3 but with better results. The stoktons, nashes, havliceks.

And then talented players. The mcgradys, carters, and so ons.


Chris Paul? You may argue top 50. I won't have him there.

i'm fine with your 25+other guys you listed(besides walton longevity matters). It's the "so ons" I want to see. I already disagree with mcgrady and carter but if those are the first guys you thought of, I wont even argue about those.

[elementally morale]

i'm fine with your 25+other guys you listed(besides walton longevity matters). It's the "so ons" I want to see. I already disagree with mcgrady and carter but if those are the first guys you thought of, I wont even argue about those.


You have at the very least 5 all timers that are greater. Cousy. DeBusschere. Pettit. Pistol. Add someone.

Then you have players who achieved more and were no worse. Kidd. Nash. McHale. Ewing. Add someone.

You are at 35 players.

And then it gets REALLY crowded.

[zizozain]

is this a joke?

anyway my criteria is simple:

-Championship titles (as the man or 1a 1b)

-mentality (leadership-clutch- selfishness -Confidence - focus - team
first mentality- emotional composure- cold-blooded assassin commitment etc..)


Better Player: is this a joke? Kawhi
Better Career: is this a joke? Kawhi

[dazzer87]

is this a joke?

anyway my criteria is simple:

-Championship titles (as the man or 1a 1b)

-mentality (leadership-clutch- selfishness -Confidence - focus - team
first mentality- emotional composure- cold-blooded assassin commitment etc..)


Better Player: is this a joke? Kawhi
Better Career: is this a joke? Kawhi
:roll: :roll: :roll: NO they are not trolling.

[zizozain]

:roll: :roll: :roll: NO they are not trolling.
not sure if cp3 in my top 100 :lol

[NBAGOAT]

You have at the very least 5 all timers that are greater. Cousy. DeBusschere. Pettit. Pistol. Add someone.

Then you have players who achieved more and were no worse. Kidd. Nash. McHale. Ewing. Add someone.

You are at 35 players.

And then it gets REALLY crowded.

i'm starting to have heavy disagreements. You go with Pistol, I wouldnt. He's skilled for sure but his biggest achievement is his college scoring numbers. McHale was imo clearly worse outside a couple years as good as he is.

You say it gets really crowded but I'm gonna bother you to list more. For example dominique is one possibility but I'm taking cp3 over him definitely.

[JohnMax]

Kawhi just took 39 shots in a game 7 while CP3 is known for this


Saw him yesterday passing up wide open 3s...

That s why melo beat him by 60.

He's an in the flow orchestrator with no takeover switch. Chef has both. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466602)

[elementally morale]

i'm starting to have heavy disagreements. You go with Pistol, I wouldnt. He's skilled for sure but his biggest achievement is his college scoring numbers. McHale was imo clearly worse outside a couple years as good as he is.

You say it gets really crowded but I'm gonna bother you to list more. For example dominique is one possibility but I'm taking cp3 over him definitely.


Some more? On my list? Better or arguably no worse with better results? Okay.


worthy
drexler
unseld
iverson
baylor
gervin
wilkens

That's at least 40. And then... really crowded. Comes down to personal preference. I think you may argue CP3 is in the top 40-50 range all time. I'd say he is top 100 but not top 50. But I can live with the opinion of you having him, say, top 43. In other words: borderline top 50.

I dislike the guy so I put him outside the top 50. He is comfortably top 100 though.

[imdaman99]

This thread ain't fair. CP3 had his low moment the other day and Kawhi had his high moment a few hours back.

If you would have asked this after Chris Paul hit that game winner in 2015? Yeah, exactly.

[elementally morale]

This thread ain't fair. CP3 had his low moment the other day and Kawhi had his high moment a few hours back.

If you would have asked this after Chris Paul hit that game winner in 2015? Yeah, exactly.


Chris Paul will not be rememered because he failed at winning. It's not fair... but he did fail. If you fail you better have a personality like Charles Barkley or you will be forgotten and not talked about like Karl Malone. At least Malone won MVPs and went to the Finals. But what has Chris Paul done?

[4pointshot]

Leonard is a great player, but he also illustrates why you should rate players on a body of work, rather than a few iconic moments. He had 38 points on 38 shots, which is very inefficient, before getting gifted two FT. If he had made both those free FT, Philly would have needed a quick three to tie, and the game probably would have been decided. He missed a FT, giving Philly a much better chance to tie. Then he threw up a shot that was clearly well off the mark, would have probably been a miss more than 90% of the time, was maybe millimeters from bouncing away from the basket, and by sheer luck it bounces the other way. Even then, it still misses completely, and more luck for it to bounce in the other direction, and into the basket.

I'm all for calling him the best or one of the best players so far of the postseason, but not because of this game, and certainly not because of the way the game ended. He lucked out, and if he hadn't, and the Raps had lost in OT, that mised FT would have come back to haunt him. I don't criticize him for missing an occasional FT, but for the same reason i don't praise him for making a lucky shot.

[Stephonit]

CP3 or Walt Frazier?

Kawhi's peak is a top 5 player in the league. CP3 also.

Kawhi led a team to the conference finals, twice now. CP3 fell short of that and on paper he had a comparably talented team. One gets the feeling Kawhi is more clutch.

Kawhi's resume is still thin.

[Ass Dan]

one is a floppy midget who ain't ever done shit when it mattered.

the other has rings, a finals MVP and the biggest shot in a franchises history.

hmmm...

[Ass Dan]

Chris Paul will not be rememered because he failed at winning. It's not fair... but he did fail. If you fail you better have a personality like Charles Barkley or you will be forgotten and not talked about like Karl Malone. At least Malone won MVPs and went to the Finals. But what has Chris Paul done?

Barkley went to the finals and won MVP.

dumb dee dumb dumb

[Ass Dan]

CP3 or Walt Frazier?

Kawhi's peak is a top 5 player in the league. CP3 also.

Kawhi led a team to the conference finals, twice now. CP3 fell short of that and on paper he had a comparably talented team. One gets the feeling Kawhi is more clutch.

Kawhi's resume is still thin.

Finals MVP and rings is not a thin resume

don't be a f*cking retard

[FKAri]

Some more? On my list? Better or arguably no worse with better results? Okay.


worthy
drexler
unseld
iverson
baylor
gervin
wilkens

That's at least 40. And then... really crowded. Comes down to personal preference. I think you may argue CP3 is in the top 40-50 range all time. I'd say he is top 100 but not top 50. But I can live with the opinion of you having him, say, top 43. In other words: borderline top 50.

I dislike the guy so I put him outside the top 50. He is comfortably top 100 though.
I and I'm sure many others would easily take CP3 over Lenny Wilkens. Those other guys you can definitely have a debate on.