Alabama just banned abortions.

[scuzzy]

Conservatives :oldlol:


Soon discovering that they

[dunksby]

Jam boy should get the hell outta dodge, he has been dippin it in every white girl who glanced his way.

[iamgine]

Abortion is one of those issues which both sides have sufficient merit. That's why people who are for or against shouldn't be too hard on on their opponents and a compromise might be the best solution.

[scuzzy]

Abortion is one of those issues which both sides have sufficient merit. That's why people who are for or against shouldn't be too hard on on their opponents and a compromise might be the best solution.
I don't get into abortion debates

But I think that should be a woman's right and not the state. IMO free contraceptives have to be mandatory if that's the case

Kids being brought into this world from unwanting parent(s) is a disaster, foster care will explode, many adult women are flat out going to do die trying to abort themselves

[scuzzy]

This abortion ban makes no exceptions for victims of rape and incest :lol :facepalm


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/alabama-senate-passes-nations-most-restrictive-abortion-law-which-makes-no-exceptions-for-victims-of-rape-and-incest/2019/05/14/e3022376-7665-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d564f1d4d70a

[kennethgriffen]

if abortion truly was the right of the mother just because "its her body" then suicide would be legal and hospitals would assist anyone who didn't wanna live anymore regardless of their health/condition

[scuzzy]

if abortion truly was the right of the mother just because "its her body" then suicide would be legal and hospitals would assist anyone who didn't wanna live anymore regardless of their health/condition
assisted suicide should be legal as well

[Objectivity]

assisted suicide should be legal as well

It is legal in some places.
Netherlands & Belgium come to mind but i could be wrong.

[Hawker]

[QUOTE=scuzzy]Conservatives :oldlol:


Soon discovering that they

[iamgine]

I don't get into abortion debates

But I think that should be a woman's right and not the state. IMO free contraceptives have to be mandatory if that's the case

Kids being brought into this world from unwanting parent(s) is a disaster, foster care will explode, many adult women are flat out going to do die trying to abort themselves
On one hand, it's fully reasonable that women should have control of their body and unwanted kids are problematic for society. Besides, up till a certain point, fetus doesn't even have what we consider to be a full human form.

On the other, It's also fully reasonable how people would consider a fetus a human being and abortion is simply murder.

Both sides have sufficient merit.

[kennethgriffen]

assisted suicide should be legal as well


no it shouldn't. people with mental health issues need treatment to help them overcome their problems. why do you think they do psychological assessments when people want transgender surgery... a lot of them end up regretting it. i'm sure 99.9999% of people who attempted suicide and survived regretted their attempt later on in life

emotions get the best of people. sometimes you just need time to heal. the worst relationships that end in breakup routinely end up trying again and again before calling it quits because your mind heals and you forget why you were upset to begin with.


its the same with suicidal thoughts. that stuff is temporary. i have a friend with a massive scar on his wrist. he tried killing himself when we were roommates back in like 2007/08... his girlfriend broke up with him and he tried fighting me and others. i got in between them and he grabbed a pair of scissors and took like 5 big swipes before blood started shooting everywhere like a kill bill movie. it took like 5 beach towels to clean it all up. drove him to the hospital after it clotted. he's never done anything like that again after that and found a new girl/lived with her for many years


long story short... things are never as bad as they seem at the time.

[DukeDelonte13]

All that does is outlaw abortions for people without the means to travel somewhere where abortion is legal.

So the poor people will have more kids they can't afford and the government will have to take care of them.

[DCL]

births to teenage mothers skyrocket in alabama.

that will surely lead to wonderful things for everybody.

[kennethgriffen]

births to teenage mothers skyrocket in alabama.

that will surely lead to wonderful things for everybody.


what if you were aborted. would you care enough about higher taxes/longer lines at the welfare office to the point where you'd sacrifice yourself?

[Jasper]

banning abortions is based on religious believes , you have to believe what the government is telling the people you govern that you must follow their beliefs.

sorry but that is predication of beliefs

[ItsMillerTime]

All that does is outlaw abortions for people without the means to travel somewhere where abortion is legal.

So the poor people will have more kids they can't afford and the government will have to take care of them.

Conservatives don't give a shit after the kid is born. Who cares if the kid lives in extreme poverty and has 2 worthless deadbeats for parents? At least he's alive amirite :rolleyes:

[DCL]

what if you were aborted. would you care enough about higher taxes/longer lines at the welfare office to the point where you'd sacrifice yourself?


what if you had more kids that you didn't want?

would you run far away from them too?

[Norcaliblunt]

Screw Bama. We kill fetuses out here.

[Loco 50]

Abortion is one of those issues which both sides have sufficient merit. That's why people who are for or against shouldn't be too hard on on their opponents and a compromise might be the best solution.
There are checkpoints along the way of a pregnancy that attempt to regulate the pregnancy.

If anomalies are detected: abortion aka stillbirth, aka miscarriage occurs to the tune of 1 in 3 pregnancies.

Some of these anomalies include, but are not limited to: chromosomal defect, uterine size, uterine health, blood supply to placenta, and overall health of mother and fetus.

Sometimes during a pregnancy the checks fail too. When you consider that 1 in 3 pregnancies fail for one reason or another, that's a lot of pregnancies that require the checkpoints to work.

When the checkpoints fail, medicine takes over.

There is no argument in science or medicine. The argument only comes into play when a medical professional's religion deems it unacceptable to step in in what they have determined to be God's decision.

The problem in my view, is who the **** are you to decide that a baby that is going to have a tragic, doomed existence because it is going to die eventually should be born and live out a brief life of suffering and misery by being kept alive artificially on life support? So medicine should not decide to end suffering when it could, but it should prolong suffering because it can in pro-life's view? Because that was God's plan?

That is short-sighted and cruel. The religious folk tend to not think that far ahead however.

If you want to believe in God, fine. I believe that God/nature gave us the capability to do better with science. Period.

[egokiller]

This abortion ban makes no exceptions for victims of rape and incest :lol :facepalm


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/alabama-senate-passes-nations-most-restrictive-abortion-law-which-makes-no-exceptions-for-victims-of-rape-and-incest/2019/05/14/e3022376-7665-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d564f1d4d70a

This is the biggest issue.

You got some crotchety old pastor of some baptist church in AL that is clueless thinking that this is OK. Some of the assholes actually think that if the mother is at risk of dying, they should still have the child.

[kennethgriffen]

banning abortions is based on religious believes , you have to believe what the government is telling the people you govern that you must follow their beliefs.

sorry but that is predication of beliefs


what does religion have to do with protecting babies from being cut up and sucked out of their moms so they can enjoy some margaritas and avoid stretch marks


and if adoption isn't your thing then government handouts actually make it beneficial to have multiple kids these days


its completely selfish to resort to abortion. the only time it should even be considered is if the mothers health is in danger. period

[kennethgriffen]

what if you had more kids that you didn't want?

would you run far away from them too?


the mom ran away from me actually


she wanted her ex to be the father. she was in love with him. we were just having a fling

a loving union household is better than a flawed biological one

[Patrick Chewing]

banning abortions is based on religious believes , you have to believe what the government is telling the people you govern that you must follow their beliefs.

sorry but that is predication of beliefs


Religious beliefs? You need religion to tell you that killing an unborn child is wrong?


:facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

But I think that should be a woman's right and not the state.


And what rights does the child in her womb have? Zero?

[kennethgriffen]

Religious beliefs? You need religion to tell you that killing an unborn child is wrong?


:facepalm

didn't you read the bible?

peter 1:23:

"and God said onto thee, thou shalt not scramble and vacuum thy new born from thou wives womb and dispose of it in near by waste disposal unit"












"of course... why didn't i think of that"





https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/regrets-wrong-doing-closeup-portrait-260nw-325349966.jpg

[rufuspaul]

First: Not all conservatives are social conservatives.

Second: This won't hold up in the courts.

[highwhey]

good :applause:

[DCL]

the mom ran away from me actually


she wanted her ex to be the father. she was in love with him. we were just having a fling

a loving union household is better than a flawed biological one


your daughter is lucky to have a man who is not her father but is man enough to take care of her.

fatherhood takes tremendous responsibility and sacrifices.

but i think it was you who made a thread talking down about parenthood and how much you hated it.

if you hate it so much, don't burden the kid by bringing him or her into this world.

i don't value life of an egg equally.

[CelticBaller]

Don

[Derka]

Conservatives don't give a shit after the kid is born. Who cares if the kid lives in extreme poverty and has 2 worthless deadbeats for parents? At least he's alive amirite :rolleyes:
George Carlin said it best: conservatives want live babies so they can grow up to be dead soldiers.

[tpols]

what if you had more kids that you didn't want?

would you run far away from them too?

:eek:

:biggums:

[Facepalm]

The bill passed thanks to the votes of a group of exclusively white, male Republican senators, and amendments introduced by the state’s four women senators were all dismissed.



Voted through by 25 white men lol

[NumberSix]

But I think that should be a woman's right and not the state. IMO free contraceptives have to be mandatory if that's the case
What if someone wants to kil you? Should that be their choice to make or should the state say no to that?

[Long Duck Dong]

Conservatives don't give a shit after the kid is born. Who cares if the kid lives in extreme poverty and has 2 worthless deadbeats for parents? At least he's alive amirite :rolleyes:

I do. I don't want any more leeches and criminals set upon society than we already have now. Plus, real talk, most of these would be aborted ain't gonna grow up to vote for my side anyway. I think there should be an abortion clinic on every corner in poor, high crime areas.

Pure stupidity and self inflicted harm on Bama's part :facepalm

[kennethgriffen]

your daughter is lucky to have a man who is not her father but is man enough to take care of her.

fatherhood takes tremendous responsibility and sacrifices.

but i think it was you who made a thread talking down about parenthood and how much you hated it.

if you hate it so much, don't burden the kid by bringing him or her into this world.

i don't value life of an egg equally.

my parents said i would get my entire inheritance upfront if i gave them a grandkid.. it really wouldn't have been that hard for me. i think i was man enough to turn down millions for the betterment of the kid... why give her trust issues just so i can buy a huge house and dodge viper

and they broke up btw... so it didn't work out anyway. now its kinda late for me to say anything

[DCL]

my parents said i would get my entire inheritance upfront if i gave them a grandkid.. it really wouldn't have been that hard for me. i think i was man enough to turn down millions for the betterment of the kid... why give her trust issues just so i can buy a huge house and dodge viper

and they broke up btw... so it didn't work out anyway. now its kinda late for me to say anything

let's say you have a one night stand and the girl gets pregnant and you later find out she's both an alcoholic and heroin addict. do you want this woman to have your baby? maybe she's already a mother and all her kids are messed up a.f. with brain and respiratory defections, other life threatening complications, etc. that woman ain't quiting her booze and drugs during pregnancy neither. do you really want her to carry the child and let her body jeopardize the mental and physical health of your offspring as well who may not even survive when born?

coupled with your feelings about fatherhood, do you really want to bring that kid to the world?

you know it's not a yes.

if she suggests an abortion, quit what you're doing and drive her to the clinic.

[MaxFly]

This abortion ban makes no exceptions for victims of rape and incest :lol :facepalm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/alabama-senate-passes-nations-most-restrictive-abortion-law-which-makes-no-exceptions-for-victims-of-rape-and-incest/2019/05/14/e3022376-7665-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d564f1d4d70a

I'm not sure if anyone else here works in the medical field or has seen a live birth, but the hormonal changes in a woman during pregnancy, the changes to her body, to her emotional state, to her financial well being during pregnancy and the new responsibilities she takes on during the process, the time she will need to devote for doctor's appointments, ultra-sounds, NSTs and other referrals, the abject pain of labor, the damage and tearing she endures during birth, the possibility of a necessary C-section, and the often difficult and lengthy recovery period after pregnancy, mixed with the new hormonal changes that can incite postpartum depression make it especially heinous to force someone who has been raped to carry the pregnancy to term.

Is there some sort of program tax payers of Alabama will be paying into to financially support these women and families? I expect that they will not be responsible for a single dime of their care during or after pregnancy, and that monies will be provided by tax payers to also address emotional pain and trauma as well as lost wages and potential wages for the rest of the woman's life. If she's married or has a family, add in the time and expenses that family must expend to help with the pregnancy. I'm sure that this wasn't some sort of stunt, but rather, was carefully considered and financial legislation to help those effected is pending. :confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE]The bill passed thanks to the votes of a group of exclusively white, male Republican senators, and amendments introduced by the state

[NumberSix]

I'm not sure if anyone else here works in the medical field or has seen a live birth, but the hormonal changes in a woman during pregnancy, the changes to her body, to her emotional state, to her financial well being during pregnancy and the new responsibilities she takes on during the process, the time she will need to devote for doctor's appointments, ultra-sounds, NSTs and other referrals, the abject pain of labor, the damage and tearing she endures during birth, the possibility of a necessary C-section, and the often difficult and lengthy recovery period after pregnancy, mixed with the new hormonal changes that can incite postpartum depression make it especially heinous to force someone who has been raped to carry the pregnancy to term.

Is there some sort of program tax payers of Alabama will be paying into to financially support these women and families? I expect that they will not be responsible for a single dime of their care during or after pregnancy, and that monies will be provided by tax payers to also address emotional pain and trauma as well as lost wages and potential wages for the rest of the woman's life. If she's married or has a family, add in the time and expenses that family must expend to help with the pregnancy. I'm sure that this wasn't some sort of stunt, but rather, was carefully considered and financial legislation to help those effected is pending. :confusedshrug:
Where did libtards get this idea that there’s some kind of connection between there being a responsiblility to financially support people who you don’t think should be killed? What does one thing have to do with the other?

Government exists to protect your rights, not to be your sugar daddy. I fully expect the government to protect my right to life. I have no expectation that the government is supposed financially support me.

[Patrick Chewing]

Voted through by 25 white men lol


To protect the thousands of Black babies that get aborted every year.

[MaxFly]

Where did libtards get this idea that there’s some kind of connection between there being a responsiblility to financially support people who you don’t think should be killed? What does one thing have to do with the other?

Government exists to protect your rights, not to be your sugar daddy. I fully expect the government to protect my right to life. I have no expectation that the government is supposed financially support me.

Are you responding to me? If so, you either responded without reading... or perhaps comprehending? I'm talking about financial support by the government and taxpayers for a woman given that it/they are forcing that woman who has been raped to bring the pregnancy to term. All of the physical, financial, social and emotional repercussions of that situation practically require it. Ideally, the rapist would pay all costs, but many, many, many rapes are never solved. If the government is forcing the woman to bring the pregnancy to term, then the responsibility falls on taxpayers to take care of her after suffering such a heinous crime and being forced to live out the continued reverberations of that crime.

Incidentally, financial support of children born of rape is sure to follow given that most children forced to be born of rape will be likely turned over to the state or state funded program.

I haven't even touched incest and the health issues that could arise there.

Hey, do me a favor: don't disappear. This tends to be one of those times where you ghost on a conversation after realizing the ridiculous nature of your argument or your response.

[tpols]

To protect the thousands of Black babies that get aborted every year.


Only for you to hate and,mock them when they grow up huh tio?

[Patrick Chewing]

Only for you to hate and,mock them when they grow up huh tio?


I only mock stupid, uneducated people. You don't see me talking too much shit about Asians now do ya?

[qrich]

If women are able to absolve themselves from their responsibilities and consequences of sex, there should be a male option as well, where the mother can not go after the father for any sort of child support.


Also, for the pro-choice crowd, simple question. What other responsibilities and consequences can I absolve myself from?

[kennethgriffen]

let's say you have a one night stand and the girl gets pregnant and you later find out she's both an alcoholic and heroin addict. do you want this woman to have your baby? maybe she's already a mother and all her kids are messed up a.f. with brain and respiratory defections, other life threatening complications, etc. that woman ain't quiting her booze and drugs during pregnancy neither. do you really want her to carry the child and let her body jeopardize the mental and physical health of your offspring as well who may not even survive when born?

coupled with your feelings about fatherhood, do you really want to bring that kid to the world?

you know it's not a yes.

if she suggests an abortion, quit what you're doing and drive her to the clinic.



if i told you that you could choose one of the following


a) live the rest of your life kind of stupid.. like slow and sort of malnourished looking


or

b) die immediately



which would you choose

[tpols]

if i told you that you could choose one of the following


a) live the rest of your life kind of stupid.. like slow and sort of malnourished looking


or

b) die immediately



which would you choose


Well...we know what option you picked.

[qrich]

let's say you have a one night stand and the girl gets pregnant and you later find out she's both an alcoholic and heroin addict. do you want this woman to have your baby? maybe she's already a mother and all her kids are messed up a.f. with brain and respiratory defections, other life threatening complications, etc. that woman ain't quiting her booze and drugs during pregnancy neither. do you really want her to carry the child and let her body jeopardize the mental and physical health of your offspring as well who may not even survive when born?

coupled with your feelings about fatherhood, do you really want to bring that kid to the world?

you know it's not a yes.

if she suggests an abortion, quit what you're doing and drive her to the clinic.



And what if she doesn't suggest an abortion, but you want nothing to do with her or the kid?

Stuck paying child support for 18 years or going to jail for a kid you didn't want. :confusedshrug:

[Hawker]

Were any of those female Senators Republicans?

Bill was signed by the governor - a female republican. There goes the sexist narrative.

Bill was also sponsored by a woman.

[Long Duck Dong]

I can't believe how dead wrong conservatives are on abortion. Abortion helps us. It doesn't hurt us in the least.

[MaxFly]

If women are able to absolve themselves from their responsibilities and consequences of sex, there should be a male option as well, where the mother can not go after the father for any sort of child support.


Rape and incest as well? This bill does not have any exceptions for rape and incest. In fact, amendments were put forward to add exceptions for rape and incest, but were voted down.

[MaxFly]

Bill was signed by the governor - a female republican. There goes the sexist narrative.

Bill was also sponsored by a woman.

Yeah, that's not where I was going. I simply wanted to know if the amendment to include rape and incest exceptions had the support of Republican women in that body. The poster I responded to make it sound as if the bill passed as is exclusively due to white male votes, which I don't believe is the case.

[TheMan]

That bill won't survive the courts.

It's a bit extreme because no exceptions, not even for rape or incest?

I'm against abortion but there should be exceptions, rape, incest, life of the mother in danger and baby having serious quality of life defects...that bill was a big fukk you to feminazis :lol

[NumberSix]

That bill won't survive the courts.

It's a bit extreme because no exceptions, not even for rape or incest?

I'm against abortion but there should be exceptions, rape, incest, life of the mother in danger and baby having serious quality of life defects...that bill was a big fukk you to feminazis :lol
Then you can vote for that. The people of Alabama apparently disagree.

Contrary to popular belief, the ‘Roe vs Wade’ standard is no longer in place. For all the people who shriek about ‘overturning precedent’ with regard to Roe, someone should clue them into the fact that it was already overturned in 1992 in Planned Parenthood vs Casey.

The SCOTUS’ Roe decision is legally indefensible. Also contrary to popular belief, Roe didn’t actually rule that abortion is a right. It was a ‘privacy rights’ ruling, despite the fact that ‘privacy rights’ isn’t actually a thing in the constitution.

Roe, pretty much arbitrarily, decided that abortion bans violate constitutional privacy rights (despite that not being a thing) but that the government’s interest in protecting the rights of unborn people outweighs those privacy rights (that don’t actually exist) after the first trimester of pregnancy but for no particular reason don’t apply to the 1st.

It’s a genuinely, legally indefensible, nonsense ruling. But y’all don’t need to worry about that, because it isn’t the law and hasn’t been for 27 years.

The nonsense ‘privacy rights’ part of Roe is inexplicably still in place, but the trimester part doesn’t. The current law is that the government’s interest in protecting life outweighs the privacy rights at the point of viability, whether that viability can be achieved through natural or artificial means.

Obviously, as medicinal science progresses, viability through artificial means is getting earlier and earlier.

Point being, THAT is the current standard. Viability. There is no “viability, except rape and incest” standard. There isn’t a separate law for babies conceived from rape or incest. The same ‘viability’ standard that applies to every other baby applies to them too. There is no legal distinction from a constitutional law perspective. The lack of exceptions for rape and incest actually isn’t a valid legal reason for a court to rule against this.

[tpols]

I can't believe how dead wrong conservatives are on abortion. Abortion helps us. It doesn't hurt us in the least.


Well you guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place because yelling abortion was your only hand to play in the ongoing healthcare system crisis. Instead of coming up with a plan... Just say democrats kill babies and get your sheep to forfeit their care to be on your side.

The hilarious irony is you have these die hard GOP lifers like tio who will white knight champion the abortion issue, but if they were allowed to grow up you want them gone anyway because most of this stuff happens in bad communities rife with crime.

[Loco 50]

I'm not sure if anyone else here works in the medical field or has seen a live birth, but the hormonal changes in a woman during pregnancy, the changes to her body, to her emotional state, to her financial well being during pregnancy and the new responsibilities she takes on during the process, the time she will need to devote for doctor's appointments, ultra-sounds, NSTs and other referrals, the abject pain of labor, the damage and tearing she endures during birth, the possibility of a necessary C-section, and the often difficult and lengthy recovery period after pregnancy, mixed with the new hormonal changes that can incite postpartum depression make it especially heinous to force someone who has been raped to carry the pregnancy to term.

If any of the pro-lifers here actually worked in the medical field they wouldn't have these views.

:roll: I am imagining folks here trying to ban c-sections after having witnessed their first one.

I've had this conversation with several of them at least 2, maybe 3, times and they've learned nothing. Many of them still have the same views they had coming in.

Can't teach people that don't want to be taught. Life is about catering to THEIR needs after all, always will be.

[Loco 50]

Bill was signed by the governor - a female republican. There goes the sexist narrative.

Bill was also sponsored by a woman.
People can't be hateful towards their own group now?

[Loco 50]

I can't believe how dead wrong conservatives are on abortion. Abortion helps us. It doesn't hurt us in the least.
Wrong, you lose your one vote issue voters and religious wing support.

You're cooked if you change stances now. It's probably conservatives most effective weapon.

[NumberSix]

If any of the pro-lifers here actually worked in the medical field they wouldn't have these views.

:roll: I am imagining folks here trying to ban c-sections after having witnessed their first one.

I've had this conversation with several of them at least 2, maybe 3, times and they've learned nothing. Many of them still have the same views they had coming in.

Can't teach people that don't want to be taught. Life is about catering to THEIR needs after all, always will be.
Who

[red1]

this is an absolute travesty. tiffany has every right to do what she wants with her body and cletus already has 12 children running around in the trailer it's not like he needs any more.


this needs to be fixed ASAP. I'm sending tiffany and cletus condoms in the meantime to keep them from reproducing but that's only a temporary fix

[Loco 50]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Then you can vote for that. The people of Alabama apparently disagree.

Contrary to popular belief, the

[Loco 50]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Who

[Loco 50]

this is an absolute travesty. tiffany has every right to do what she wants with her body and cletus already has 12 children running around in the trailer it's not like he needs any more.


this needs to be fixed ASAP. I'm sending tiffany and cletus condoms in the meantime to keep them from reproducing but that's only a temporary fix
Jokes, but just because you have condoms doesn't mean:

A. You will use them.
B. You use them properly.
C. They don't fail on you.

[red1]

Jokes, but just because you have condoms doesn't mean:

A. You will use them.
B. You use them properly.
C. They don't fail on you.
yeah absolutely. knowing cletus he probably opens the condom wrapper with a rusty pocket knife, cutting the wrapper from the middle of the package. probably puts the condom on backwards too.


it's a stopgap solution - we need these abortions back ASAP.

[NumberSix]

Nobody is. But, the folks here who like to bring up the grisly imagery of ripping babies out of women to shock people could just as easily convince their fellow idiots that c-sections are a danger and need to be banned.
Why do you have to engage in this kind of dishonesty?

Everyone knows surgery, c-sections included, is kind of gross to the average person. The average person wouldn’t want to watch someone’s skull being sawed open for brain surgery. It’s absolutely idiotic to suggest that seeing this would somehow convince people that brain surgery should be banned.

You’re being intentionally stupid when you pretend that people could “easily convince” people that c-sections should be banned.

The reason abortion imagery is so disturbing is because it shows what is obviously a human being torn into pieces. It is utterly dishonest to equate this to a person having a surgery.

If you want to argue in favor of abortion, just do that. You don’t need to make outrageously stupid arguments like this that convince absolutely nobody of anything.

[qrich]

Rape and incest as well? This bill does not have any exceptions for rape and incest. In fact, amendments were put forward to add exceptions for rape and incest, but were voted down.

If you want to make rape and incest exceptions, that's fine.

If your trying to use rape and incest as reasons to make abortions okay on a large scale, then no.


Abortion wouldn't be as huge of an issue if the majority of folks weren't utilizing it like contraception.

[Loco 50]

If you want to make rape and incest exceptions, that's fine.

If your trying to use rape and incest as reasons to make abortions okay on a large scale, then no.


Abortion wouldn't be as huge of an issue if the majority of folks weren't utilizing it like contraception.
They aren't, but your party would have you believe otherwise.

Do you honestly think it's more convenient to inquire about abortion than it is to just use a condom in the first place?

Rape/incest, medical reasons: aka genetic defects/chromosomal abnormalities, risk to mother, risk to fetus are all reasons that abortions need to remain legal.

Some of you act like pregnancy is no big deal. Like everything runs smoothly all the time. Women die in pregnancy and in birth to this day. That can sometimes be avoided now by using all the tools available to us. That has a risk of returning if laws scare doctors with prison time for attempting to save a woman's life.

[NumberSix]

If you want to make rape and incest exceptions, that's fine.

If your trying to use rape and incest as reasons to make abortions okay on a large scale, then no.


Abortion wouldn't be as huge of an issue if the majority of folks weren't utilizing it like contraception.
This is such a nonsensical argument they make. The reasoning is, if there are ANY scenarios where something is ok, it should be ok in ALL scenarios. This is obviously nonsense.

This is like saying that it’s ok for doctors and family to end a patient’s life in some scenarios (e.g., pulling the plug) therefore, it’s ok for a doctor to end a patient’s life in all scenarios. This is the thinking of dumb people.

If a 5 year old kid is in a coma, is basically a vegetable and can’t live without being hooked up to machines, then yes, it’s ok for the doctors and family to pull the plug and let him die. If a 5 year old somehow contracts HIV from a blood transfusion or something, it’s absolutely not ok for the doctors and parents to decide “ah, f*ck it. Let’s just kill him.”

[Loco 50]

This is such a nonsensical argument they make. The reasoning is, if there are ANY scenarios where something is ok, it should be ok in ALL scenarios. This is obviously nonsense.

This is like saying that it’s ok for doctors and family to end a patient life in some scenarios (e.g., pulling the plug) therefore, it’s ok for a doctor to end a patient’s life in all scenarios. This is the thinking of dumb people.

If a 5 year old kid is in a coma, is basically a vegetable and can’t life without being hooked up to machines, then yes, it’s ok for the doctors and family to pull the plug and let him him. If a 5 year old somehow contracts HIV from a blood transfusion or something, it’s absolutely not ok for the doctors and parents to decide “ah, f*ck it. Let’s just kill him.”
If you realized the amount of trauma that most women go through before having to decide to go through with an abortion you'd stfu.

[NumberSix]

If you realized the amount of trauma that most women go through before having to decide to go through with an abortion you'd stfu.
Oh, so now we

[DCL]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Oh, so now we

[qrich]

They aren't, but your party would have you believe otherwise.

Do you honestly think it's more convenient to inquire about abortion than it is to just use a condom in the first place?

Rape/incest, medical reasons: aka genetic defects/chromosomal abnormalities, risk to mother, risk to fetus are all reasons that abortions need to remain legal.

Some of you act like pregnancy is no big deal. Like everything runs smoothly all the time. Women die in pregnancy and in birth to this day. That can sometimes be avoided now by using all the tools available to us. That has a risk of returning if laws scare doctors with prison time for attempting to save a woman's life.

Uh yes they are. But hey, I'm guessing you are fine banning abortion unless it falls under those circumstances, correct?

Edit: Also, tell me, what has my party told me? And what party is that?

[Loco 50]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Oh, so now we

[Loco 50]

Uh yes they are. But hey, I'm guessing you are fine banning abortion unless it falls under those circumstances, correct?

Edit: Also, tell me, what has my party told me? And what party is that?
If you believe that, you're wrong.

Abortion is banned when it is needed to be banned. I've already discussed this with six. Third trimester abortions are banned everywhere in the states except under emergent conditions.

I've read enough of your posts to infer that you are a pretty staunch conservative. Am I mistaken?

[qrich]

If you believe that, you're wrong.

Abortion is banned when it is needed to be banned. I've already discussed this with six. Third trimester abortions are banned everywhere in the states except under emergent conditions.

I've read enough of your posts to infer that you are a pretty staunch conservative. Am I mistaken?

So you are then using a small percentage of abortions to justify the large scale, whom are doing it to absolve themselves from the consequences they created.

Cool.

Also, "when needed," is subjective. Why does your view of when needed trump that of Bamas?

And yes, you are hugely mistaken.

[Loco 50]

So you are then using a small percentage of abortions to justify the large scale, whom are doing it to absolve themselves from the consequences they created.

Cool.

Also, "when needed," is subjective. Why does your view of when needed trump that of Bamas?

And yes, you are hugely mistaken.
Not a small percentage.

"When needed" is not subjective. Third trimester is when abortions need to be banned, because we are now much closer to dealing with an actual baby.

Alabama is ranked 43rd in a nation of educational mediocrity.

If they are leading the way in any scientific argument I am completely comfortable in saying the national medical consensus, which is shared by me, trumps "Bama's."

Okay, you are not a conservative. What is your skin in this game then? Are you Catholic?

[qrich]

Not a small percentage.

"When needed" is not subjective. Third trimester is when abortions need to be banned, because we are now much closer to dealing with an actual baby.

Alabama is ranked 43rd in a nation of educational mediocrity.

If they are leading the way in any scientific argument I am completely comfortable in saying the national medical consensus, which is shared by me, trumps "Bama's."

But it is. Last time I looked at a study done, about 1.5% of abortions were due to rape/incest, and, iirc, around 10% were due to medical concerns. Let's humor "not a small percentage," though. Your still trying to use "legit" reasons to okay it for folks that do it because they want to absolve responsibility of their actions.

And yes, when needed is subjective. According to many folks, like the female governor, they are never needed. According to crazy folks, they can be needed whenever (not you, I've spoken to people that believe they should be able to get it whenever).


Tell me as well, do you believe that the father's should also be able to absolve themselves from all responsibilities and consequence as well, and not having to worry about wages garnished or jail time?


No, I'm not Catholic either. It isn't a religion thing, nor a party thing. It's a common sense thing

[Pushxx]

All that does is outlaw abortions for people without the means to travel somewhere where abortion is legal.

So the poor people will have more kids they can't afford and the government will have to take care of them.

This is very true, but I don't think the people in favor of this ban care because it's still reducing abortions.

Plus less abortions of poor people = more taxpayers to be taken advantage of eventually.

Government...:sleeping

[Loco 50]

But it is. Last time I looked at a study done, about 1.5% of abortions were due to rape/incest, and, iirc, around 10% were due to medical concerns. Let's humor "not a small percentage," though. Your still trying to use "legit" reasons to okay it for folks that do it because they want to absolve responsibility of their actions.

Stats are easily manipulable. For that reason I place little stock in them, but to your point, correct, I have no problem with women seeking elective abortions early.

I struggle to understand the need to "accept responsibility" for what could have been a drunken one night stand, or boyfriend lied and said he was infertile, or boyfriend lied and said he was strapped, or woman just threw caution to the wind for a night, rolled the dice, and lost or any other of innumerable reasons.

So not only does the couple now need to accept a lifetime of responsibility for one night of sex, regardless of their capabilities of taking care of a kid, the potential kid now should be faced with the possibilities that could otherwise be averted in a dangerous household. Social reasons it might be better to have an abortion. Medical already touched on.

A.)Poverty - poor kids are doomed to higher exposure of drugs/crime and have less opportunities to succeed.

B.)Drug addiction - a kid forced to live with an addict will never be a priority and will be at risk their entire childhood and they themselves face increased risk of addiction

C.)Mental health - obviously depending on severity and nature of affliction

D.)Physical handicap - Unfair to make a couple that is incapable of nurturing a child raise a child just because they were capable of having sex


Bottomline: The punishment does not fit the crime and the consequences of an unloved child being thrust into society are too severe, in my opinion.

So your need to make people accept responsibility. Who does this benefit?




And yes, when needed is subjective. According to many folks, like the female governor, they are never needed. According to crazy folks, they can be needed whenever (not you, I've spoken to people that believe they should be able to get it whenever).

Those "crazy folks" don't matter. They will not get third trimester abortions. Medical professionals would refuse to do them. Nobody wants to be viewed as a "baby killer." It's all just shit talk from extremists.

Just because the governor is a woman doesn't mean she's any more educated than anybody else in Alabama. There are millions of Catholic women that refuse to use condoms because the Pope used to condemn it.


Tell me as well, do you believe that the father's should also be able to absolve themselves from all responsibilities and consequence as well, and not having to worry about wages garnished or jail time?

Nah, the issue with a woman determining whether a pregnancy is completed or not is simply because it's her body. If you want to play Dr. Frankenstein and start hacking the body so men can give birth then they'll have the same options afforded to them.

Pops is on the hook no matter what if she decides to deliver, unfortunately.


No, I'm not Catholic either. It isn't a religion thing, nor a party thing. It's a common sense thing
People get in a lot of trouble when they assume something is common sense. Myself included.

I've got to get back to work. I'm glad we could keep this civil. That seems to be a rarity.

[egokiller]

This is just stupid:

http://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ohio-abortion-heartbeat-bill-pregnant-11-year-old-rape-victim-barred-abortion-after-new-ohio-abortion-bill-2019-05-13/

Can we sacrifice these people on crosses that are saying an 11 year old girl who was raped can’t have an abortion? Since they believe jesus died for their sins, perhaps they should die for the sins of the rapist.

[TheMan]

Nobody is. But, the folks here who like to bring up the grisly imagery of ripping babies out of women to shock people could just as easily convince their fellow idiots that c-sections are a danger and need to be banned.
:facepalm

I used to be pro-choice like SJWs like yourself until it actually did hit me that we are ending an innocent's chance at life...and no one has the right to end another's chance at life. Pro life people aren't idiots, and frankly I would rather be viewed as an idiot than be a cuck who supports a woman's "right" to kill an unborn child...FOH.

[tpols]

I struggle to understand the need to "accept responsibility" for what could have been a drunken one night stand, or boyfriend lied and said he was infertile, or boyfriend lied and said he was strapped, or woman just threw caution to the wind for a night, rolled the dice, and lost or any other of innumerable reasons.



:wtf:


this is why society is devolving...

if drinking and drugging to the point of getting knocked up by a total stranger isnt the definition of irresponsibility than i dont know what is.

[Loco 50]

:facepalm

I used to be pro-choice like SJWs like yourself until it actually did hit me that we are ending an innocent's chance at life...and no one has the right to end another's chance at life. Pro life people aren't idiots, and frankly I would rather be viewed as an idiot than be a cuck who supports a woman's "right" to kill an unborn child...FOH.
exerpt from https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-brain-nervous-system/

"At the tail-end of trimester two, your little one's brainstem (controlling heart rate, breathing, blood pressure) is almost entirely mature, resting just above the spinal cord but below the cerebral cortex (the last area to mature). By now, the fetal nervous system is developed enough so your baby is startled by loud noises outside the womb

[Loco 50]

:wtf:


this is why society is devolving...

if drinking and drugging to the point of getting knocked up by a total stranger isnt the definition of irresponsibility than i dont know what is.
How old are you?

Sure it's irresponsible and yet................shockingly, it happens all the time.

I'm sure you're straight as an arrow, no fvck ups at all.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AGQLRKywRqg/hqdefault.jpg

I'm not here to judge other's mistakes. That's a complete waste of time in my opinion.

[tomtucker]

why are they doing this? makes no sense, more people=more shit.
the world needs fewer people, not more. especially fewer muslims.

[tpols]

I struggle to understand the need to "accept responsibility" for what could have been a drunken one night stand




Sure it's irresponsible and yet......



and yet what holmes?

you admit it and then write a kblaze essay.

its deviant, reprehensible behavior that needs to be addressed at its source. Not after the fact with killing the growing life.

And shit i hate the GOP and all their bullshit but youre way off base mate.

[Loco 50]

and yet what holmes?

you admit it and then write a kblaze essay.

its deviant, reprehensible behavior that needs to be addressed at its source. Not after the fact with killing the growing life.

And shit i hate the GOP and all their bullshit but youre way off base mate.
Don't care what political alignment you are.

You are misreading the quote. I quoted the other poster and my point is I don't understand how forcing people into raising a kid that they are incapable of raising is "accepting responsibility." It's a recipe for disaster.

Do you think an unloved child becomes a healthy human being?

This is how muich of societies ills are spread.....addiction, mental pathology, criminal behavior, pathological behavior in general.

Yes, ideally we all live more responsibly.

But, I think if the parents are self-aware enough to realize they can't provide a healthy home for a kid they shouldn't be forced to. You force people into doing shit they are incapable of, bad things happen. Every time.

[highwhey]

Don't care what political alignment you are.

You are misreading the quote. I quoted the other poster and my point is I don't understand how forcing people into raising a kid that they are incapable of raising is "accepting responsibility." It's a recipe for disaster.

Do you think an unloved child becomes a healthy human being?

This is how muich of societies ills are spread.....addiction, mental pathology, criminal behavior, pathological behavior in general.

Yes, ideally we all live more responsibly.

But, I think if the parents are self-aware enough to realize they can't provide a healthy home for a kid they shouldn't be forced to. You force people into doing shit they are incapable of, bad things happen. Every time.
that's a cop out. you're arguing about consequences, but in reality, you want to give irresponsible adults a cop out, a way to escape responsibility. the end result? a sh1t society that doesn't believe in accountability.

don't think your fit to be a parent? practice safe sex, maybe don't go and get drunk and bang a stranger. that's the oldest tale, "it was a mistake" :rolleyes:

millennials especially seem very prone to wanting to run away from responsibility.

if i rob a bank, i go to jail. that's called facing the consequences. again, a mistake is the grammatical errors in my post. if i get drunk tonight and bang some random chick raw and she gets preggo a couple of weeks later, that would be a major fvck up on my behalf...not a simple mistake. and i would face the consequences, because that's what a fvcking adult does you simpleton piece of sh1t.

[Hawker]

People can't be hateful towards their own group now?

Why do you deem it to be hateful (arbitrary)? Why does one "group" have to all have the same opinion?

Women are not a monolith and it's extremely narrow minded to treat them as a collective bunch. They should be treated as individuals.

It's actually pretty sexist to tell women they should all think the same and if their opinion differs than the "liberal" opinion than they are hateful.

Also, the arguments being made here in this thread against abortion aren't even ones coming from a religious POV. That religious narrative is expired as well.

[highwhey]

sorry loco_50, you are not a simpleton. i am just extra pissed off today for an unrelated reason to abortion. i just think this arguments renders down to common sense and the act of taking responsibility for one's own actions.

[Patrick Chewing]

Black Lives Matter!



But not when we're using tongs to snip their necks in half and yank them out of the womb!


https://www.liveaction.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/abortion-tools.jpg

[qrich]

Stats are easily manipulable. For that reason I place little stock in them, but to your point, correct, I have no problem with women seeking elective abortions early.

Then why can't men do the same?


I struggle to understand the need to "accept responsibility" for what could have been a drunken one night stand, or boyfriend lied and said he was infertile, or boyfriend lied and said he was strapped, or woman just threw caution to the wind for a night, rolled the dice, and lost or any other of innumerable reasons.

So not only does the couple now need to accept a lifetime of responsibility for one night of sex, regardless of their capabilities of taking care of a kid, the potential kid now should be faced with the possibilities that could otherwise be averted in a dangerous household. Social reasons it might be better to have an abortion. Medical already touched on.

So if someone drives home drunk, one night, should they be absolved from consequence as well? Or do they need to accept responsibility for their actions of driving drunk?

If my buddy asks me for a ride to the store, ends up robbing it, and I drive away knowing what he did. Should I be absolved from aiding and abetting? If he was drunk, should he be absolved for a one night thing?


A.)Poverty - poor kids are doomed to higher exposure of drugs/crime and have less opportunities to succeed.

So we should end the lives of all poor kids?


B.)Drug addiction - a kid forced to live with an addict will never be a priority and will be at risk their entire childhood and they themselves face increased risk of addiction

People with drug addictions tend to get their kids removed from the home.


C.)Mental health - obviously depending on severity and nature of affliction

See above, though not as often.


D.)Physical handicap - Unfair to make a couple that is incapable of nurturing a child raise a child just because they were capable of having sex

See above, though not as likely.


Bottomline: The punishment does not fit the crime and the consequences of an unloved child being thrust into society are too severe, in my opinion.

So your need to make people accept responsibility. Who does this benefit?

Here is why you have no issues with this responsibility being absolved.

You view children as a punishment. That's not the way to go.


Those "crazy folks" don't matter. They will not get third trimester abortions. Medical professionals would refuse to do them. Nobody wants to be viewed as a "baby killer." It's all just shit talk from extremists.

But they do happen. It's naive to state they never happen outside of "medical reasons." Is it as often as the Right/Religious groups paint it? Most likely not. But it does happen. I had a friend get pregnant in HS, she hid it for about 5 months before her parents found out. It happened. She was 17, was going to turn 18 prior to giving birth :confusedshrug:


Just because the governor is a woman doesn't mean she's any more educated than anybody else in Alabama. There are millions of Catholic women that refuse to use condoms because the Pope used to condemn it.

She may not be educated, but my point was to people blaming "white men," for it. How many of those Catholic women get abortions, if they don't wear condoms?


Nah, the issue with a woman determining whether a pregnancy is completed or not is simply because it's her body. If you want to play Dr. Frankenstein and start hacking the body so men can give birth then they'll have the same options afforded to them.

Pops is on the hook no matter what if she decides to deliver, unfortunately.

Well, then, you have no issues if Cletus shoots up heroin. Or Jerome does crack. Or Cindy ends her life. It's their body, their choice, correct?

It is also naive to believe a child doesn't affect the father either. Emotionally, mentally and physically. I'd say getting thrown in jail for unpaid child support meets all three of those.

Pretty hypocritical to allow only one party to absolve themselves from all responsibility when it takes two to make a child.


People get in a lot of trouble when they assume something is common sense. Myself included.

I've got to get back to work. I'm glad we could keep this civil. That seems to be a rarity.

Sure, common sense is not so common, so I can live with that.

However, I expect people to be against the ending of life (unless it's a pedo or someone heinous).

:cheers:

[MaxFly]

If any of the pro-lifers here actually worked in the medical field they wouldn't have these views.

:roll: I am imagining folks here trying to ban c-sections after having witnessed their first one.

I've had this conversation with several of them at least 2, maybe 3, times and they've learned nothing. Many of them still have the same views they had coming in.

Can't teach people that don't want to be taught. Life is about catering to THEIR needs after all, always will be.

It's shocking how little people know about the process. I firmly believe a person can be pro-life while being fully informed and knowledgeable about the miracle of pregnancy and childbirth. However, that knowledge should temper extreme positions, just as it should for those who are pro-choice.

[MaxFly]

If you want to make rape and incest exceptions, that's fine.

If your trying to use rape and incest as reasons to make abortions okay on a large scale, then no.

Abortion wouldn't be as huge of an issue if the majority of folks weren't utilizing it like contraception.

So why no exceptions for rape and incest in this legislation?

I mean, let's be real... this legislation is unenforceable right now. The goal is to get a case before the SC in order make some changes to the national paradigm regarding Roe. But there was no legitimate reason to pass the legislation without exceptions for rape and incest.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Oh, so now we

[qrich]

So why no exceptions for rape and incest in this legislation?

I mean, let's be real... this legislation is unenforceable right now. The goal is to get a case before the SC in order make some changes to the national paradigm regarding Roe. But there was no legitimate reason to pass the legislation without exceptions for rape and incest.
I don't have any sort of issue adding exceptions for rape, incest or medical purposes.

I have an issue with using those scenarios, which are the vast minority of reasons, as a reason to okay abortions. I have an issue with abortion being viewed as a form of contraception.

[highwhey]

I don't have any sort of issue adding exceptions for rape, incest or medical purposes.

I have an issue with using those scenarios, which are the vast minority of reasons, as a reason to okay abortions. I have an issue with abortion being viewed as a form of contraception.
ding ding ding!

even if there were exceptions in this bill, the exact same crowd would still be b1tching about abortion being illegal. that same crowd piggybacks off a more complex issue to get their way.

[Loco 50]

that's a cop out. you're arguing about consequences, but in reality, you want to give irresponsible adults a cop out, a way to escape responsibility. the end result? a sh1t society that doesn't believe in accountability.

I don't view it as a cop out. I can spend my time preaching to people about how they fvcked up and berate them for being irresponsible or I can try to help them get things back in order.

I can't yell at someone for drinking themselves into a liver condition. They know they fvcked up. I know they fvcked up. I'm human, so I'll probably let one or two slip and straight up say, "you know you fvcked up right?, but after that it's about helping them make the best of a bad situation.

Same with someone that eats too much sugar.

Same with someone that smokes.

Pregnancy is a quite different issue. It doesn't have to be permanent.

All I can do is counsel and try to get people to understand the importance of contraception, the consequence of a pregnancy, and more often inform them about the possibility of STD's (this is usually the most effective deterrent). Often it's just kids that were caught up in the moment. I think it's a terrible idea to try and make a kid be a parent when they're not ready. We've all seen the consequences of this.



don't think your fit to be a parent? practice safe sex, maybe don't go and get drunk and bang a stranger. that's the oldest tale, "it was a mistake" :rolleyes:

Two problems with this.

1.)What teen (or even some twenty year olds for that matter)is thinking about safe sex and the possibility of pregnancy when their hormones are raging? Sure some, but certainly not all.

2.)The safest of sex practices can still result in a pregnancy.



if i rob a bank, i go to jail. that's called facing the consequences. again, a mistake is the grammatical errors in my post. if i get drunk tonight and bang some random chick raw and she gets preggo a couple of weeks later, that would be a major fvck up on my behalf...not a simple mistake. and i would face the consequences, because that's what a fvcking adult does you simpleton piece of sh1t.
Can't compare breaking the law with having sex. Breaking the law implies you have hurt someone or damaged their property. Nobody was wronged with normal sexual intercourse. Too extreme.

Understand, I don't condone irresponsibility and I recognize this for what it is. However, as I stated above accidents happen. Mistakes happen.

I'm just stating that there is little point in making a bad situation worse. I could bitch and moan about someone's irresponsibility every time I see them, but several things will happen.

1.)Nothing will change, because what's done is done.

2.)They will stop coming to me for help because I effectively chased them off.

Part of maturity is understanding you just gotta let some things ride.

[Loco 50]

Why do you deem it to be hateful (arbitrary)? Why does one "group" have to all have the same opinion?

Women are not a monolith and it's extremely narrow minded to treat them as a collective bunch. They should be treated as individuals.

It's actually pretty sexist to tell women they should all think the same and if their opinion differs than the "liberal" opinion than they are hateful.

Also, the arguments being made here in this thread against abortion aren't even ones coming from a religious POV. That religious narrative is expired as well.
Didn't mean to imply I thought her behavior was hateful, just a general statement. Her thinking is backwards however, no matter what it's origin is.

The rest is not applicable to my thinking.

Finally, I've read enough to understand that much of this controversy is due to religious thinking and other is control.

[Loco 50]

sorry loco_50, you are not a simpleton. i am just extra pissed off today for an unrelated reason to abortion. i just think this arguments renders down to common sense and the act of taking responsibility for one's own actions.
No worries. Hope things got better.

[Loco 50]

Black Lives Matter!



But not when we're using tongs to snip their necks in half and yank them out of the womb!


https://www.liveaction.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/abortion-tools.jpg
:oldlol: Those are used to clamp the umbilical cord you twit so they're actually used to deliver babies.

I'm afraid there's no such tool for the action you're referring to, but alas you're just trollin again, aren't ya?

[MaxFly]

I don't have any sort of issue adding exceptions for rape, incest or medical purposes.

I have an issue with using those scenarios, which are the vast minority of reasons, as a reason to okay abortions. I have an issue with abortion being viewed as a form of contraception.

Why do you think Senators in Alabama had issues adding exceptions for rape and incest? If, somehow, their legislation is upheld, there are no protections for individuals who have been assaulted in such a manner. In fact, the law would force them to take a pregnancy resulting from rape to term. Why take it to that extreme?

[Patrick Chewing]

:oldlol: Those are used to clamp the umbilical cord you twit so they're actually used to deliver babies.

I'm afraid there's no such tool for the action you're referring to, but alas you're just trollin again, aren't ya?


http://abortioninstruments.com/index_instruments2.html



I'm afraid you're a dumbass.

[MaxFly]

Loco 50 had more serious points and arguments throughout this thread, yet you only focused on that joke comment.

It's his thing, man. When he finds himself struggling to formulate a good argument, he ghosts on the conversation or shifts to focusing on nonsense.

Peep his response (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13710862&postcount=39) to my post, and my subsequent response (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13710888&postcount=41).

Still haven't heard from him. :confusedshrug:

[qrich]

Why do you think Senators in Alabama had issues adding exceptions for rape and incest? If, somehow, their legislation is upheld, there are no protections for individuals who have been assaulted in such a manner. In fact, the law would force them to take a pregnancy resulting from rape to term. Why take it to that extreme?

I know some folks that believe abortion isn't right, even in cases of rape as abortion punishes the child, who had nothing to do with the rape.

Do I agree with it? Not necessarily.

Am I a hypocrite for being anti-abortion except in certain cases? Yes, I can admit to it. I believe if the mother is in danger, the child is going to be a still born or have some sort of terminal disease where it does nothing but suffer (ie: tay sachs), in the case of rape, in the case of incest, or in the case of age, abortion should be available.

But only in those cases. Abortion should NOT be used as a contraceptive tool because it is NOT a method of contraception.


You tell me though, if the bill had excuses rape and incest, would you have supported it then? Or would you have continued to push your agenda?

[Loco 50]

Last response til maybe the weekend. It appears I've opened Pandora's box.

Then why can't men do the same?

Addressed already, if it were men's bodies that were undergoing pregnancy they'd have the same right.



So if someone drives home drunk, one night, should they be absolved from consequence as well? Or do they need to accept responsibility for their actions of driving drunk?

If my buddy asks me for a ride to the store, ends up robbing it, and I drive away knowing what he did. Should I be absolved from aiding and abetting? If he was drunk, should he be absolved for a one night thing?

Am I understanding correctly that you are comparing breaking the law and actively harming someone, with people having sex?

I don't see the comparison.



So we should end the lives of all poor kids?

Never said that. Ideally we all want our kids to have the best environment possible for success. Abject poverty merely increases risk doesn't guarantee it and I'd never counsel someone on poverty alone, unless there was a risk of being unable to put food on the table.



People with drug addictions tend to get their kids removed from the home.

See above, though not as often.


After much damage has been done. It takes a lot to get your kids taken away from you.




Here is why you have no issues with this responsibility being absolved.

Didn't say I have no issue with it. Said forcing a pregnancy is not going to help matters.


You view children as a punishment. That's not the way to go.

:oldlol: Honestly, you nailed me there. I love my nieces, but they can go back home after I take them to the zoo.



But they do happen. It's naive to state they never happen outside of "medical reasons." Is it as often as the Right/Religious groups paint it? Most likely not. But it does happen. I had a friend get pregnant in HS, she hid it for about 5 months before her parents found out. It happened. She was 17, was going to turn 18 prior to giving birth :confusedshrug:

I said third trimester pregnancies do not happen electively. Prior to that they can be elective depending on what state you're in. No state does elective third trimester pregnancies legally.

Kids should not be forced into parenthood unless they feel they are mature enough. My opinion alone. You are free to disagree.



She may not be educated, but my point was to people blaming "white men," for it. How many of those Catholic women get abortions, if they don't wear condoms?

I can't speak for them, but I can assume they're thinking the majority rules in that case.

Any Catholic woman that believes contraception is an affront to God is certainly not going to get an abortion. I'm lost on your point here.


Well, then, you have no issues if Cletus shoots up heroin. Or Jerome does crack. Or Cindy ends her life. It's their body, their choice, correct?

Now you're getting more into my field of expertise. These people need medical (addiction psychiatry/psychology)help, but in the end yes, it is their body and their choice. You can't really shackle someone for the rest of their lives because they might kill themselves. Well, you can put them in a psych hospital, but that's usually a temporary situation until they've become stable/clean again.



It is also naive to believe a child doesn't affect the father either. Emotionally, mentally and physically. I'd say getting thrown in jail for unpaid child support meets all three of those.

Pretty hypocritical to allow only one party to absolve themselves from all responsibility when it takes two to make a child.

Never said they don't. Children often have a profound effect on father's state of well being. But the law is what it is right now, and that is that the person bearing the child has more rights than the significant other.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. That's not my place nor my decision.



Sure, common sense is not so common, so I can live with that.

However, I expect people to be against the ending of life (unless it's a pedo or someone heinous).

:cheers:
Consider this. This new Alabama law would now make the penalty for a doctor performing an abortion for a rape victim a longer sentence than the sentence that the actual rapist will face. I don't see how that makes any sense.

[SomeBlackDude]

move over west virginia, looks like alabamy just became the official inbred capital of 'murrica.

[QUOTE]Alabama Senate passes nation

[Loco 50]

http://abortioninstruments.com/index_instruments2.html



I'm afraid you're a dumbass.
Patty cakes, that website................:roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you serious with this?

Why would you need to poison a fetus, Patty?

I can't dude. I've had my fill today. There is no legitimate information to be had on a website like that.

You have a good evening.

[MaxFly]

I know some folks that believe abortion isn't right, even in cases of rape as abortion punishes the child, who had nothing to do with the rape.

Do I agree with it? Not necessarily.


For those individuals, what responsibility do they believe government and taxpayers (who would force a woman who was raped to bring that pregnancy to term) have in taking care of that woman during and after pregnancy, both financially and medically.


You tell me though, if the bill had excuses rape and incest, would you have supported it then? Or would you have continued to push your agenda?

I'm pro-life, so I don't have an issue with banning abortion after certain stages of development. What I have an issue with is that these sorts of bills make people who are pro-life look stupid and extreme, and prevents us from having a reasonable conversation about appropriate measures and education.

[Patrick Chewing]

Patty cakes, that website................:roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you serious with this?

Why would you need to poison a fetus, Patty?

I can't dude. I've had my fill today. There is no legitimate information to be had on a website like that.

You have a good evening.


Now who's the one trolling?


How do you think abortions happen? With magic spells?

[MaxFly]

Consider this. This new Alabama law would now make the penalty for a doctor performing an abortion for a rape victim a longer sentence than the sentence that the actual rapist will face. I don't see how that makes any sense.

I actually heard someone defend this today on NPR. The argument went, "Well, the rapist didn't actually kill anyone, while the doctor killed the baby, so the doctor deserves a more severe penalty." When asked about the lack of prosecution for mothers, the response was, "We don't want to go after the women because we know it's a difficult decision and those women are hurting."

[qrich]

For those individuals, what responsibility do they believe government and taxpayers (who would force a woman who was raped to bring that pregnancy to term) have in taking care of that woman during and after pregnancy, both financially and medically.

Haven't asked, but those folks (the ones I know) vary in their view of the government. Some are for big, others are against.



I'm pro-life, so I don't have an issue with banning abortion after certain stages of development. What I have an issue with is that these sorts of bills make people who are pro-life look stupid and extreme, and prevents us from having a reasonable conversation about appropriate measures and education.

A reasonable conversation can never happen as people are too extreme on this issue.

[qrich]

Consider this. This new Alabama law would now make the penalty for a doctor performing an abortion for a rape victim a longer sentence than the sentence that the actual rapist will face. I don't see how that makes any sense.

I'm just going to respond to this, as I believe we will go in a never ending circle on the rest of it and it'd be a waste of time.

I don't personally agree with that, in the slightest. As I've stated in my reply to Max, I believe it was. I believe that rape, incest, age and medical should be exceptions. Even if I come off as a hypocrite, I do believe in that.

All that will do is lead to a shit ton of deaths in botched back room abortions, which isn't the way to go.

[scuzzy]

The 10 week abortion pill already exploded on dark net markets :lol

[Patrick Chewing]

The 10 week abortion pill already exploded on dark net markets :lol


I actually see this as a huge boom to the prophylactic market.


I also see a reduction in health care costs and taxes cause we no longer have to pay for the mistakes of others.

[MaxFly]

A reasonable conversation can never happen as people are too extreme on this issue.

And let's be real, while many on the left are extreme, many on the right are both extreme and hypocritical, and it is the added hypocrisy that makes an already difficult conversation all the more impossible.

First, let's remember that that many on the right actually care little about abortion, but rather use it as a wedge issue in the service of demagoguery. It's disturbing to see the number of purportedly conservative leaders who hammer this and other issues, but privately have no affinity for the arguments they make publicly, or reject that public argument once their lives are touched by what they are arguing against.

Not too long ago, Congressman Tim Murphy, who was staunchly pro-life, resigned after being caught cheating on his wife and requesting that his mistress have an abortion when he thought he got her pregnant. He would have denied it all as a partisan attack if it were not for the text messages between him and his mistress. After being caught, he argued that it was his staff who was responsible for his anti-abortion messages... even though he is a member of the House Pro-Life caucus and has sponsored abortion legislation in the past.

Former Republican Speaker of the House, and at one time, second in line for Presidential succession, Dennis Hastert, went to prison after it was revealed that he was illegally structuring bank withdrawals to silence a boy he had sexually abused. This is an individual who kept a file labeled "Homosexuals" with articles from organizations bashing gay-rights protection efforts. He even fought against a bill that sought to bar discrimination against gay people.

The conversation is hard, in part, because people who are serious about reasonable legislation have people like Murphy and Hastert representing them. They were just playing the political game as it best served their needs.

[qrich]

You can turn that entire thing around to gun control, and make the same arguments. The fact that you are targeting one side shows that you as well can not have this conversation seriously.

I'm also waiting for you to answer if adding the provisions of rape and incest would turn you into a supporter of the bill, or are you just using those two scenarios, which are a vast minority of abortions, as an excuse to excuse the rest?

[MaxFly]

Haven't asked, but those folks (the ones I know) vary in their view of the government. Some are for big, others are against.


So I just want to get this straight. Some of the folks you know may believe that women who are raped should be forced to carry the pregnancy to term, but that no support from the government forcing her to carry the pregnancy to term should be provided?

[qrich]

So I just want to get this straight. Some of the folks you know may believe that women who are raped should be forced to carry the pregnancy to term, but that no support from the government forcing her to carry the pregnancy to term should be provided?
Sure, as often as those that are "pro-choice" may be for nine month abortions.

[MaxFly]

You can turn that entire thing around to gun control, and make the same arguments. The fact that you are targeting one side shows that you as well can not have this conversation seriously.

Explain how "you can turn the entire thing around to gun control."


I'm also waiting for you to answer if adding the provisions of rape and incest would turn you into a supporter of the bill, or are you just using those two scenarios, which are a vast minority of abortions, as an excuse to excuse the rest?

I already answered this. I'll re-post my response.


I'm pro-life, so I don't have an issue with banning abortion after certain stages of development. What I have an issue with is that these sorts of bills make people who are pro-life look stupid and extreme, and prevents us from having a reasonable conversation about appropriate measures and education.

[qrich]

Explain how "you can turn the entire thing around to gun control."



I already answered this. I'll re-post my response.
See, the thing with your answer is that you are adding a stipulation, which allows for abortion to be used as a contraceptive method.

And easily, how many Dems have been caught with illegal firearms, despite being gung ho against guns? I know there was a Cali State Senator (I believe) who pled guilty to gun trafficking :confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

Sure, as often as those that are "pro-choice" may be for nine month abortions.

You're really stretching for the whataboutisms. Which pro-choice advocates support aborting viable children when they have reached term? Note, "term" is at least 37 months. Can you point to the legislation they have passed? We have legislation that has passed that has no protections for women who have been raped. What legislation have liberals passed that would call for aborting viable children at "9 months."

Please, please, please say Ralph Northam and Virginia. Please....

[TheMan]

You're really stretching for the whataboutisms. Which pro-choice advocates support aborting viable children when they have reached term? Note, "term" is at least 37 months. Can you point to the legislation they have passed? We have legislation that has passed that has no protections for women who have been raped. What legislation have liberals passed that would call for aborting viable children at "9 months."

Please, please, please say Ralph Northam and Virginia. Please....
37 months? Da fuq

[qrich]

https://i.gyazo.com/c9c011545a3f315d02a6b1bf6b491b37.png

:eek:

Less than half a percent is due to rape.

https://i.gyazo.com/e9a1644721c6f0a932a5928a920e31e8.png

I thought public money wasn't used on abortions :confusedshrug:

[Long Duck Dong]

Wrong, you lose your one vote issue voters and religious wing support.

You're cooked if you change stances now. It's probably conservatives most effective weapon.

Who are they going to vote for? They still won't vote for liberals who want the government to pay for abortions and late term abortions as well. Republicans would gain a lot more votes being pro abortion than they would lose conservatives voting Democrat or not voting in protest.

Conservatives do need to get with the times. I was pro gay marriage and marijuana legalization before even the liberals starting backing it in large numbers. People need to mind their own damn business.

[NumberSix]

These red state abortion restrictions are obviously a response to the extreme pro-abortion bills coming out of blue states.

[Patrick Chewing]

These red state abortion restrictions are obviously a response to the extreme pro-abortion bills coming out of blue states.


No shit lol.


When you promote killing a baby even after it

[diamenz]

"hey kid, if your dad and uncle rape ya, u can't abort. and oh yeah, we're coming for your food stamps, welfare and w/e other social safety nets u may need going forward. but good luck with your life"!

[RoseCity07]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol

[Skip_Bayless]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol

It’s a bunch of bible thumping losers that can’t come to terms with the fact that the south lost the war. Fucc the rebel flag.

[Patrick Chewing]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol


So by definition, you

[tpols]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol


ahem... what?

there are. All the sexual assault laws are totally skewed against men to where theyre liable for their choices and women never are.

not to mention the court / custody system thats geared against them as well.

[diamenz]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]So by definition, you

[qrich]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol

The selective service pretty much means government can take over a man's body when they see fit for war.

There is also protection for newborn females against circumcision, but no protection for newborn males.

Why is that ?

[scuzzy]

The Trump administration has taken its war on abortion worldwide, cutting off all funding to any overseas organisation or clinic that will not agree to a complete ban on even discussing it (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/17/trump-takes-war-on-abortion-worldwide-as-policy-cuts-off-funds)

:lol

[Hawker]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol

How can this be true when the bill was sponsored by a women and signed by a woman?

These are backwards ass narratives.

[NumberSix]

This isn't about saving a bundle of cells. It's about telling women they don't own their bodies. It's pathetic. Does anyone honestly believe their would even be a law that tells men what they have to do with their own dick?:lol
If you

[warriorfan]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]If you

[MaxFly]

See, the thing with your answer is that you are adding a stipulation, which allows for abortion to be used as a contraceptive method.


There are stipulations throughout the discussion. Health of the mother, health and viability of the fetus, rape, incest. Most people who support limits on abortion agree that developmental markers are important. It's why there has been a groundswell of support behind heartbeat bills, but not behind bills banning abortion outright, period... even among those who are pro-life.


And easily, how many Dems have been caught with illegal firearms, despite being gung ho against guns? I know there was a Cali State Senator (I believe) who pled guilty to gun trafficking :confusedshrug:

Well first, I don't believe all Dems are gung ho against guns. Second, we have dissemblers on all sides across a number of issues, but in regards to abortion, which this thread is about, I think it's safe to say that some on the right don't truly care about the issue. The hypocrisy tends to make the discussion all the more difficult to have. The "what abouts" only serve as weak cover in order to avoid the subject matter of the thread, and the challenges around crafting legislation for it. :confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

37 months? Da fuq

Weeks. :oldlol:

[MaxFly]

These red state abortion restrictions are obviously a response to the extreme pro-abortion bills coming out of blue states.

Or rather they are a concerted attempt to get the matter before the Supreme Court in light of the favorable tilt of the court. :confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

Ironic post coming from this dork :lol

:confusedshrug:

[greymatter]

Or rather they are a concerted attempt to get the matter before the Supreme Court in light of the favorable tilt of the court. :confusedshrug:

Yes.

Also, it's always a dead giveaway that you're dealing with a bible beating tard any time you see "pro abortion" used.

Ask one of these dipshits what the difference is between an egg that is .001 seconds away from being breached by a sperm cell and one that has just embedded. Was there some jacktard waiting to imbue a soul at the precise moment it occurred?

Then, for shits and giggles you can bring up the fact that it takes time for DNA exchange. That the pair of 23 chromosomes don't instantaneously become 46 right after the sperm cell fully embeds and you can proceed to further point out how arbitrary and mind numbingly retarded their beliefs are.

[NumberSix]

Yes.

Also, it's always a dead giveaway that you're dealing with a bible beating tard any time you see "pro abortion" used.

Ask one of these dipshits what the difference is between an egg that is .001 seconds away from being breached by a sperm cell and one that has just embedded. Was there some jacktard waiting to imbue a soul at the precise moment it occurred?

Then, for shits and giggles you can bring up the fact that it takes time for DNA exchange. That the pair of 23 chromosomes don't instantaneously become 46 right after the sperm cell fully embeds and you can proceed to further point out how arbitrary and mind numbingly retarded their beliefs are.
True. Souls aren

[diamenz]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]True. Souls aren

[sammichoffate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWf9Uz-tMw4
I'm actually alright w/ abortions, we would get less fks like these.

[tomtucker]

why would any of these states want MORE crap running around on the street? :facepalm

[Lakers Legend#32]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]When you promote killing a baby even after it