Is LeBron a top 10 player all-time?

[72-10]

And where do you rank him?

[Gus Hemmingway]

Arguable Top 1
Consensus Top 2
Cemented Top 3


It is what it is, just facts

[bullettooth]

Yes, but I rank him somewhere around 5th or 6th all time.

[NBAGOAT]

top 3-5 ish

[Vino24]

Arguable Top 1
Consensus Top 2
Cemented Top 3


It is what it is, just facts
this

[the mesiah]

Yes , top 7 for me

[Walk on Water]

No I have the following ahead of him.

Jordan
Kareem
Chamberlain
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Russell

[NBASTATMAN]

LEBRON top 3 . NO DOUBT..

[Cold soul]

Yes Lebron is top 10 anywhere from 4-7 sounds fair.

[jlip]

Yes Lebron is top 10 anywhere from 4-7 sounds fair.

This

[Celtics 1825]

Around 3-4

[SouBeachTalents]

Literally one of the 2-3 least original threads someone could make :lol

[winwin]

No.
1- Kareem
2- MJ

3 to 14 (no order)

Wilt
Hakeem
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Oscar
Moses Malone
KD
Curry

[RRR3]

Good thing we can see the votes.

The people voting “no” will be a “who’s who” of the most braindead posters on ISH.

[Keno]

Arguable Top 1
Consensus Top 2
Cemented Top 3


It is what it is, just facts

first reply ether. :applause:

[Cleverness]

He's top 5 since 2000

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Curry
5. LeBron
6. Dirk
7. Durant
8. Garnett
9. Wade
10. Nash

I can see the argument for Dirk > LeBron since Dirk crushed him in 2011 (even with Wade and Bosh healthy), but LeBron came back with a solid lockout season and an MVP performance the following year, which gives him the slight edge over Dirk.

[And1AllDay]

Arguable Top 1
Consensus Top 2
Cemented Top 3


It is what it is, just facts

Big IQ :applause:

[RealSkipBayless]

MJ
KAJ
Russell
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Kobe
Duncan
Lebron
Shaq

Fringe top 10. In danger of being knocked out by Durant and Dingo.

[34-24 Footwork]

He's top 5 since 2000

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Curry
5. LeBron
6. Dirk
7. Durant
8. Garnett
9. Wade
10. Nash

I can see the argument for Dirk > LeBron since Dirk crushed him in 2011 (even with Wade and Bosh healthy), but LeBron came back with a solid lockout season and an MVP performance the following year, which gives him the slight edge over Dirk.

good point about dirk.

[stalkerforlife]

What top 10 player doesn't have one legit title?

What top 10 player bounced around a putrid conference forming super teams in their prime?

There's your answer.

[Gileraracer]

We already proved that he would, with a chance of 66%. be ringless in the west. So no top 10 :no:

[tanibanana]

Currently 3rd, will retire as 2nd..

[3ball]

Lebron only beat the west 3 times (3/9) - so he would only make the Finals 3 times if he was in the West for his career like Dirk was

Dirk > Lebron because he beat him heads up in 2011

The only difference is that Dirk didn't team up with Wade/Bosh and play in a shit conference

Dirk would've been 4/4 with Wade/Bosh

[PickernRoller]

Poll's a tie more or less. Minds are changing - nice to see. Time is on our side.

Lol at forum b1tch using all his alts to vote.

He's Top 15 for me, with Curry on his heels.

[Walk on Water]

Lebron is not a top 10 in the NBA NOW

[Gileraracer]

He's a solid top 20 thanks to the Eastern Conference.


Would be around top 50 had he played in the west (1 finals appearance, zero rings)

[Wally450]

Some of the responses in this thread man.

:roll: :roll:

[TheMan]

Of course he's in the top 10 :facepalm

He's 5th currently in my list

[paksat]

somewhere in the late 20s

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes, but I rank him somewhere around 5th or 6th all time.

unexpected

even the worst of haters have him top 5

:bowdown:


Of course he's in the top 10 :facepalm

He's 5th currently in my list

cool


i think this post-season is having peeps realize just how good and unprecedented this bron man is

[G0ATbe]

Top 3. Top 2 when he passes kareem on the scoring list. Top 1 if he leads LA to a championship.

[ImKobe]

Half the guys voting yes are alts from the same guy, so it seems like the majority think he's not top 10 all-time.

[RRR3]

Half the guys voting yes are alts from the same guy, so it seems like the majority think he's not top 10 all-time.
The majority of shitty trolls like yourself who don’t even believe what they’re saying, sure.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/jSzDvzMx/tenor.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/9XNrQrGn/screen-shot-2018-05-21-at-11-42-59-am.jpg

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/L5QSPdL4/low-iq-list.png

[Nowoco]

I did have him 2nd after 2016 but the more I think about it, I find it hard to find a reason to put him above Kareem.

As of right now? I have him 3rd.

[And1AllDay]

I did have him 2nd after 2016 but the more I think about it, I find it hard to find a reason to put him above Kareem.

As of right now? I have him 3rd.

Interesting always thought you hated the man you proved me wrong :applause:

[Turbo Slayer]

It seems fair. Lebron brought Cleveland a ring. THE GOAT RING. He came back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals. That is simply historic. I know you all might say that the only reasons that Lebron won the ring are because
-Draymond was suspended for Game 5
-Iggy's back injury in Game 6
-Curry chokes

But still, these finals that Bron won is insane. They faced a 73-9 win team. They faced the Unanimous MVP Curry and another all-time great shooter, Klay.

WE may never see a team coming back from a 3-1 deficit for another 50 years, at least. You'all need to learn to respect greatness. I know greatness when I see it.

[Smoke117]

That this is even being asked goes to show what a worthless fukking board this is. I don't like the guy, but it's a fact that he's a top 10 greatest player of all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

That this is even being asked goes to show what a worthless fukking board this is. I don't like the guy, but it's a fact that he's a top 10 greatest player of all time.
That and the fact nearly 40% of the board says he isn't :oldlol:

[elementally morale]

I don't know.
Top 10ish on my list.

He is not a better peak player than:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
and probably Wilt

And his resume is not better than:

Russell

That's 8 players. You may argue 1 or 2... so I'd say LeBron is somewhere top 8-12. Top 6 if you really want to push it. Certainly not top 3 or anything like that. And not out of the top 15 either. Top 10ish.

[Objectivity]

A decisive NO.

[Loco 50]

11th. Right in front of 12be.

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't know.
Top 10ish on my list.

He is not a better peak player than:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
and probably Wilt

And his resume is not better than:

Russell

That's 8 players. You may argue 1 or 2... so I'd say LeBron is somewhere top 8-12. Top 6 if you really want to push it. Certainly not top 3 or anything like that. And not out of the top 15 either. Top 10ish.
You really think Magic was better at his peak than LeBron?

[jstern]

I'm iffy about this.

I used to think he was in the top ten, but Lebron ball inflates his stats at the expense of the team.

When creating and all time team, in the past I would've put Lebron. But when thinking about it, unless everybody else changes their game to fit Lebron's, the team is not going to be as good as the same team without Lebron and someone else in his place.

Adding Lebron to an all time team makes that team worse.

[pauk]

Is LeBron a top 10 player all-time?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oITrFwtmIiU/WxhgX8FobVI/AAAAAAAAY-w/M5qAv5PeKwoxCuXNuw2xTESGYFEV2Xo5QCLcBGAs/s1600/2.gif

[TheCorporation]

I don't know.
Top 10ish on my list.

He is not a better peak player than:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
and probably Wilt

And his resume is not better than:

Russell

That's 8 players. You may argue 1 or 2... so I'd say LeBron is somewhere top 8-12. Top 6 if you really want to push it. Certainly not top 3 or anything like that. And not out of the top 15 either. Top 10ish.


Bird? :lol

Bird made 5 Finals and was outscored by his own teammate in 3 of 5 of them :lol

Next

[elementally morale]

You really think Magic was better at his peak than LeBron?


Yeah. In the same way Curry is better than Durant. As an individual player, no. As far as impact... yeah. I think mid 80s Bird and 87-89 Magic are better than LeBron. More impact on the team winning the game.

LeBron is not very good at team basketball. He makes plays. He passes fine. Still.... he just stops the ball. Durant and LeBron are both better individual players than e.g.: Larry Bird. But a Bird-led team is just something else.

At any rate, I don't have a problem with anyone having LeBron top 5. Sure, why not? I value different things.

[LAmbruh]

Another landslide victory per usual :applause:

[No Sir]

So pretty much everyone except butthurt kobetards have him around top 5 at worst. Sounds about right

[TheCorporation]

So pretty much everyone except butthurt kobetards have him around top 5 at worst. Sounds about right

Amen. And the funny thing about that is if they have LeBron outside of the top 10 then that makes Kobe top 25 at best?

LeBron is a legitimate 10 spots above Kobe so where ever you rank LeBron, Kobe is 10 spots behind it.

LBJ 2?
Kobe 12

LBJ 10?
Kobe 20

Quick mafs

[3ball]

Bird? :lol

Bird made 5 Finals and was outscored by his own teammate in 3 of 5 of them :lol

Next
Russell was outscored for most Finals, so that nullifies his rings too, according to your logic - so mj's 6 first option rings will be goat forever - no one is close

[LAmbruh]

So pretty much everyone except butthurt kobetards have him around top 5 at worst. Sounds about right
"per usual" :lol

[3ball]

Within 10 years, most people will say lebron is NOT top 10, similar to how some do that for Kobe, but worse

He'll be in the top 15 range, like Dr J is or was a few years ago

[Kingwillball]

Within 10 years, most people will say lebron is NOT top 10, similar to how some do that for Kobe, but worse

He'll be in the top 15 range, like Dr J is or was a few years ago

Get off the crack son..

[TheCorporation]

Within 10 years, most people will say lebron is NOT top 10, similar to how some do that for Kobe, but worse

He'll be in the top 15 range, like Dr J is or was a few years ago

MJ is top 15 already so ...

[TheCorporation]

Russell was outscored for most Finals, so that nullifies his rings too, according to your logic - so mj's 6 first option rings will be goat forever - no one is close

You're the idiot that loves rings remember?

11 > 6

Bye

[Smoke117]

If LeBron isn't a top 10 player of all time I'm not a drunk. That's how ridiculous it is to be so fukking retarded to actually believe he isn't top 10 all time. :rolleyes:

[3ball]

MJ is top 15 already so ...

Nah, he's consensus goat:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2019/RLGyq8.gif


Not a single poll has lebron as goat - and today's players rank MJ over lebron by like 8 to 1 or something

[TheMan]

unexpected

even the worst of haters have him top 5

:bowdown:



cool


i think this post-season is having peeps realize just how good and unprecedented this bron man is
Not really, I've never said LeBron was a bum. I have my criticisms of LeBron ball, didn't like the way he tried to stack the deck in his favor with the Big Three, he benefited from playing in a weak conference thus inflating his 8 straight NBA Finals etc etc but the man can play and he's one of the best I've seen since I started watching basketball and at the least he's gonna have an argument for GOAT based on longevity alone (accumulated stats)...I didn't come to this conclusion this post season.

In terms of peak play, I still put MJ, Bird, Shaq, Dream ahead of him (of the GOAT's I've seen) and slightly ahead of Magic.

My two cents.

[RRR3]

If LeBron isn't a top 10 player of all time I'm not a drunk. That's how ridiculous it is to be so fukking retarded to actually believe he isn't top 10 all time. :rolleyes:
How many posters do you honestly think believe he isn’t top 10? Most of them are just butthurt he’s better than their hero Kobe. Or insecure Jordan stans.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/d0YD6Mnf/1558413458364.jpg

[UK2K]

Top 5 no question.

Top 3, maybe.

But IMO, MJ and Shaq were more dominant. Then Lebron, maybe.

[stalkerforlife]

How many posters do you honestly think believe he isn’t top 10? Most of them are just butthurt he’s better than their hero Kobe. Or insecure Jordan stans.

It hurts you bad that we legitimately don't consider him top 10, but you don't get to change our authentic views just because you're a mindless sheep.

He has 0 legitimate titles.
He team hopped in a historically bad conference, forming super teams each time with the help of the NBA.
Everything he did in Miami was useless.
16 was rigged.
He's been beaten numerous times in the finals in historical fashion.
He's choked countless times on the biggest stage.
He plays a losing brand if basketball that can only be overcome with super teams and rigging.
He plays illegally with stiff arming, shoulder spearing, traveling, and carrying.
He diminishes teammates to fill box scores.
Etc.

There's no way he's top 10.

Every single top 10 player has legitimate titles without help from ring chasing and the NBA.

[34-24 Footwork]

Kobe

:biggums: :biggums:

[34-24 Footwork]

on a serious note, Lebron is EASILY TOP 10.

[raprap]

Top 3 when it

[jstern]

I'm shocked that the vast majority here said no to Lebron being in the top ten. It's like 26 to 6 in favor of no.

[34-24 Footwork]

I'm shocked that the vast majority here said no to Lebron being in the top ten. It's like 26 to 6 in favor of no.

Lebron is one of the most toxic players in NBA history. Dude faked an injury after a sweep last year and likely faked an injury this season to milk the W-L column while trying to trade away his entire roster.


But he's STILL TOP 10.

[jstern]

Lebron is one of the most toxic players in NBA history. Dude faked an injury after a sweep last year and likely faked an injury this season to milk the W-L column while trying to trade away his entire roster.


But he's STILL TOP 10.

I do believe he's top ten. Though I wouldn't put him on any all time great team because he won't be as effective unless everybody else, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc is forced to play Lebron ball. That's what's throwing me off. That's the question for me, how can a person be top ten, when if you put him on an all time great team, they're going to get worse. With that player only being able to play one way, not having the all time great skills to play any other way.

I'm just surprised by how many people picked no, compared to yes. When you take into account that wheelchair guy and his countless alts. And1AllDay, SpaceJame, Dray n Klay, and so on and so on.

[nayte]

I voted yes. Top 3 or 5 is a better discussion but I won't fault people putting him higher

[34-24 Footwork]

I do believe he's top ten. Though I wouldn't put him on any all time great team because he won't be as effective unless everybody else, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc is forced to play Lebron ball. That's what's throwing me off. That's the question for me, how can a person be top ten, when if you put him on an all time great team, they're going to get worse. With that player only being able to play one way, not having the all time great skills to play any other way.

I'm just surprised by how many people picked no, compared to yes. When you take into account that wheelchair guy and his countless alts. And1AllDay, SpaceJame, Dray n Klay, and so on and so on.


100% agree :cheers:

[pauk]

I voted NO, hell nahh, he is arguably top 200.... i just want to be in the league with 3ball, kenneth etc. & move Lebron as far away as possible from Jordan or even Kobe, i want to act like this dudes basketball ability & accomplishments/accolades/achievements/milestones in all context was nowhere near Jordans/Kareems/Birds/Magics (top 5) and not above Kobe (top 10 or... top 12)....

[aj1987]

I don't know.
Top 10ish on my list.

He is not a better peak player than:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
and probably Wilt

And his resume is not better than:

Russell

That's 8 players. You may argue 1 or 2... so I'd say LeBron is somewhere top 8-12. Top 6 if you really want to push it. Certainly not top 3 or anything like that. And not out of the top 15 either. Top 10ish.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

BTW, are you ranking players based on peak or resumes. Seems like you're all over the place.

Anyone who has LeBron worse than #6 should be disqualified from discussing basketball forever.



Thanks for making the poll public, OP. We have an updated retard list. "People" who should be put down:

3ball, Achilleas, BallsOut, Big164, BigKobeFan, Cleverness, dazzer87, eurobum, Gileraracer, ImKobe, itsGameTime, jstern, kennethgriffen, LeCola, Leviathon1121, Manny98, nineiron, Objectivity, paksat, pauk, PickernRoller, Proctor, ronniec, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist, Walk on Water, winwin, zizozain

[tontoz]

Lebron is clearly top 10. I am not big on these all time rankings but come on. I don't see how someone can objectively say he isn't top 10.

He is surely the best SF all time. I loved Bird but his prime was pretty short and he was a weak defender.

[ImKobe]

Lebron is clearly top 10. I am not big on these all time rankings but come on.

Jordan
Kobe
Kareem
Duncan
Magic
KD
Curry
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
Russell

The highest I could put James is 12th at this point.

[tontoz]

Jordan
Kobe
Kareem
Duncan
Magic
KD
Curry
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
Russell

The highest I could put James is 12th at this point.


Kobrick?

Lebron is easily a better defender than Magic and Bird and has them beat easily in longevity.

Russell? There was maybe 8 teams back then and he couldn't score.

This is just trolling.

[paksat]

welp, this is just a bad bad look for simon

20 alts voted yes

this guy ain't even top 10 to most of us, gtfo with these jordan comparisons bitch you're embarrassing yourself, your wheelchair...

[ImKobe]

Kobrick?

Lebron is easily a better defender than Magic and Bird and has them beat easily in longevity.

Russell? There was maybe 8 teams back then and he couldn't score.

This is just trolling.

:lol based on what?

Magic's 5/9 in the Finals and beat some of those GOAT Celtics squads, beat DR J in his prime with Kareem out on the road in his damn rookie season, had a title run averaging 15 apg (almost twice as high as Lebron's in any title run). Many people consider 1987 Celtics the best Celtics team in history and Magic annihilated them in the Finals, leading his team in everything except for blocks. He has a better resume than Lebron.

Russell paved the way for future generations and won more rings than anyone, outplayed Wilt in many Playoff series, including coming back from down 1 - 3 and making Wilt leave his team for LA and then beating him in the Finals the following year.

[tontoz]

:lol based on what?

Magic's 5/9 in the Finals and beat some of those GOAT Celtics squads, beat DR J in his prime with Kareem out on the road in his damn rookie season, had a title run averaging 15 apg (almost twice as high as Lebron's in any title run). Many people consider 1987 Celtics the best Celtics team in history and Magic annihilated them in the Finals, leading his team in everything except for blocks. He has a better resume than Lebron.

Russell paved the way for future generations and won more rings than anyone, outplayed Wilt in many Playoff series, including coming back from down 1 - 3 and making Wilt leave his team for LA and then beating him in the Finals the following year.


Please Magic and Bird were both slow and struggled to guard quicker players. It was common knowledge. They both had short careers as well.

Russell "paved the way" playing with a bunch of HOF players in a league with a handful of teams.

Get real.

[SouBeachTalents]

:lol based on what?

Magic's 5/9 in the Finals and beat some of those GOAT Celtics squads, beat DR J in his prime with Kareem out on the road in his damn rookie season, had a title run averaging 15 apg (almost twice as high as Lebron's in any title run). Many people consider 1987 Celtics the best Celtics team in history and Magic annihilated them in the Finals, leading his team in everything except for blocks. He has a better resume than Lebron.

Russell paved the way for future generations and won more rings than anyone, outplayed Wilt in many Playoff series, including coming back from down 1 - 3 and making Wilt leave his team for LA and then beating him in the Finals the following year.
Literally nobody considers them better than the '86 team. Almost all their best players were banged up and they needed two grueling 7 game series wins just to make the Finals

[ImKobe]

Please Magic and Bird were both slow and struggled to guard quicker players. It was common knowledge. They both had short careers as well.

Russell "paved the way" playing with a bunch of HOF players in a league with a handful of teams.

Get real.

So Lebron is out there shutting down 6-1 guards? He can't even close out on 3-point shooters and often gambles for steals that leads to wide open shots for his opponents, often doesn't get back on defense in time, has never really picked anyone up 94 ft and can't guard big men on a consistent basis.

Lebron's needed multiple HOFers to win titles himself and has played in the weakest Conference in NBA history. Magic did more in one decade than Lebron will ever do for his career.

[tontoz]

So Lebron is out there shutting down 6-1 guards? He can't even close out on 3-point shooters and often gambles for steals that leads to wide open shots for his opponents, often doesn't get back on defense in time, has never really picked anyone up 94 ft and can't guard big men on a consistent basis.

Lebron's needed multiple HOFers to win titles himself and has played in the weakest Conference in NBA history. Magic did more in one decade than Lebron will ever do for his career.

Now Lebron's defense is suspect but it wasn't always that way. Lebron made the Finals with Larry Hughes as his second option. With Wade he was clearly the better player.

His run to the Finals last year was one of the best ever. Kyrie left and Love missed a lot of games. They won only 50 games but Lebron dragged them to the Finals.

Magic was drafted by a team that already had Jabbar (arguably the goat) and then drafted Worthy (7 time All-Star). He wasn't carrying scrubs around.

[sdot_thadon]

Is this a stupid thread? Same answer.

[Hey Yo]

So Lebron is out there shutting down 6-1 guards? He can't even close out on 3-point shooters and often gambles for steals that leads to wide open shots for his opponents, often doesn't get back on defense in time, has never really picked anyone up 94 ft and can't guard big men on a consistent basis.

Lebron's needed multiple HOFers to win titles himself and has played in the weakest Conference in NBA history. Magic did more in one decade than Lebron will ever do for his career.
LOL @ thinking Magic was a great defender. He was always assigned the least offensive threat on the opposing team

Yes, Magic did play in the weakest conference and the worst division in NBA history. Lemme know when LeBron got to face 3 teams that were a combined 10gms under .500 to get to the Finals like LA did in 1987. Or get first round byes and play 3gm series.

[ImKobe]

Now Lebron's defense is suspect but it wasn't always that way. Lebron made the Finals with Larry Hughes as his second option. With Wade he was clearly the better player.

His run to the Finals last year was one of the best ever. Kyrie left and Love missed a lot of games. They won only 50 games but Lebron dragged them to the Finals.

Magic was drafted by a team that already had Jabbar (arguably the goat) and then drafted Worthy (7 time All-Star). He wasn't carrying scrubs around.


He made the Finals in 2007, playing against the 41-41 Wizards, 41-41 Nets and 53-29 Pistons (no Larry Brown or Ben Wallace with a washed up Chris Webber in his place). The 2nd best player was Big Z, not Larry hughes.

Wade was clearly the better player in the 2011 Finals and Lebron shrank under pressure, worst superstar meltdown in Finals history.

Lebron went 7 games with an inexperienced Pacers squad led by Oladipo and barely got past an injured Celtics squad led by a rookie who's worse than Brandon Ingram. He had Love, RJ, George Hill & Rodney Hood, who both made the Conference Finals this year on different teams while playing lights out for their team in key moments.

Are we forgetting the Cavs coming back against the Pacers in the 4th quarter of Game 7 with Lebron in the locker room? Hill and Love closed that series out for him. He didn't have a consistent elite 2nd option, but he had a deep roster with many players who came in and gave him quality minutes in key moments, a lot of them split minutes so you don't see any flashy averages. He had Wade and Rose on his roster early in the season but made the FO trade both of them and both players had great individual seasons this year without him.

Magic and Lebron both needed HOF help. Lakers won 63 games the year after Kareem retired and he carried them to the Finals in '91.


LOL @ thinking Magic was a great defender. He was always assigned the least offensive threat on the opposing team

Yes, Magic did play in the weakest conference and the worst division in NBA history. Lemme know when LeBron got to face 3 teams that were a combined 10gms under .500 to get to the Finals like LA did in 1987. Or get first round byes and play 3gm series.

So most superstars are out there consistently guarding the opponents' best player? Wasn't Magic guarding Darryl Dawkins in the 1980 Finals?

And yes, Magic had an easy road to the Finals in 1987, as did Lebron in many of his runs (2007, 2013, 2014 for example). Lebron himself won a title where he didn't face a single 50-win team on the road to the Finals.

[PickernRoller]

Definitely Top 10 among any list that includes Elgin Baylor and Jerry West.

[RRR3]

He made the Finals in 2007, playing against the 41-41 Wizards, 41-41 Nets and 53-29 Pistons (no Larry Brown or Ben Wallace with a washed up Chris Webber in his place). The 2nd best player was Big Z, not Larry hughes.

Wade was clearly the better player in the 2011 Finals and Lebron shrank under pressure, worst superstar meltdown in Finals history.

Lebron went 7 games with an inexperienced Pacers squad led by Oladipo and barely got past an injured Celtics squad led by a rookie who's worse than Brandon Ingram. He had Love, RJ, George Hill & Rodney Hood, who both made the Conference Finals this year on different teams while playing lights out for their team in key moments.

Are we forgetting the Cavs coming back against the Pacers in the 4th quarter of Game 7 with Lebron in the locker room? Hill and Love closed that series out for him. He didn't have a consistent elite 2nd option, but he had a deep roster with many players who came in and gave him quality minutes in key moments, a lot of them split minutes so you don't see any flashy averages. He had Wade and Rose on his roster early in the season but made the FO trade both of them and both players had great individual seasons this year without him.

Magic and Lebron both needed HOF help. Lakers won 63 games the year after Kareem retired and he carried them to the Finals in '91.



So most superstars are out there consistently guarding the opponents' best player? Wasn't Magic guarding Darryl Dawkins in the 1980 Finals?

And yes, Magic had an easy road to the Finals in 1987, as did Lebron in many of his runs (2007, 2013, 2014 for example). Lebron himself won a title where he didn't face a single 50-win team on the road to the Finals.
Because they only played 66 games that year you ****ing troll. The Heat didn

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Because they only played 66 games that year you ****ing troll. The Heat didn

[SouBeachTalents]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Because they only played 66 games that year you ****ing troll. The Heat didn

[RRR3]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's talking about 2013, where the Heat didn't face a team that won 50 games before the Finals
The Pacers had 49 wins but only played 81 games.

[PickernRoller]

Mr. Pimples better log on to that back up. Getting sliced and eviscerated with simplicity. Mr. Wheels is on a toilet break (nugget galore) and can't help, for now.

[sdot_thadon]

I gotta admit, I admire the courage and devotion it takes for Kobe stans to still be willing to type the word Lebron in 2019.:rockon:

[Hey Yo]

He made the Finals in 2007, playing against the 41-41 Wizards, 41-41 Nets and 53-29 Pistons (no Larry Brown or Ben Wallace with a washed up Chris Webber in his place). The 2nd best player was Big Z, not Larry hughes.

Wade was clearly the better player in the 2011 Finals and Lebron shrank under pressure, worst superstar meltdown in Finals history.

Lebron went 7 games with an inexperienced Pacers squad led by Oladipo and barely got past an injured Celtics squad led by a rookie who's worse than Brandon Ingram. He had Love, RJ, George Hill & Rodney Hood, who both made the Conference Finals this year on different teams while playing lights out for their team in key moments.

Are we forgetting the Cavs coming back against the Pacers in the 4th quarter of Game 7 with Lebron in the locker room? Hill and Love closed that series out for him. He didn't have a consistent elite 2nd option, but he had a deep roster with many players who came in and gave him quality minutes in key moments, a lot of them split minutes so you don't see any flashy averages. He had Wade and Rose on his roster early in the season but made the FO trade both of them and both players had great individual seasons this year without him.

Magic and Lebron both needed HOF help. Lakers won 63 games the year after Kareem retired and he carried them to the Finals in '91.



So most superstars are out there consistently guarding the opponents' best player? Wasn't Magic guarding Darryl Dawkins in the 1980 Finals?

And yes, Magic had an easy road to the Finals in 1987, as did Lebron in many of his runs (2007, 2013, 2014 for example). Lebron himself won a title where he didn't face a single 50-win team on the road to the Finals.
see Kobe in the 2004 Finals. Biggest upset in NBA Finals history.

Magic may have guarded Dawkins at times but was never assigned to him for the entire game. You also probably think he played Center for LA when Kareem went down. That narrative's already been put to rest.

How did LeBron have it easy in the years you mentioned when he's the one leading his team in every postseason series in avg. points, rebounds and assists?? For him to have it easy it would mean just the opposite..... someone else carrying him. As a Kobe fan, you should know all to well about that.

[tontoz]

I generally root against Lebron but he has been in the league a long time with career averages of 27/7/7 and a career TS of 58.6%. His numbers actually go up a bit in the playoffs.

8 straight Finals..... if people don't have him in the top 10 now then I have to wonder what he would have to do to get into the top 10.

[34-24 Footwork]

2013 Miami Heat (66-16)

ECQF: Milwaukee Bucks (38-44)
ECSF: Chicago Bulls (45-37)
ECF: Indiana Pacers (49-32)

:roll:

yooo.....lol.

[bullettooth]

I generally root against Lebron but he has been in the league a long time with career averages of 27/7/7 and a career TS of 58.6%. His numbers actually go up a bit in the playoffs.

8 straight Finals..... if people don't have him in the top 10 now then I have to wonder what he would have to do to get into the top 10.

You get a player that wins 4 straight finals and he'll be knocked out of whatever place anyone has him in.

His legacy is not going to age well.

[superduper]

2013 Miami Heat (66-16)

ECQF: Milwaukee Bucks (38-44)
ECSF: Chicago Bulls (45-37)
ECF: Indiana Pacers (49-32)

:roll:

LOLLL

"Never lost in da first round doe!1!!!"

No shit the guy's facing complete fking scrubs.

[aj1987]

Jordan
Kobe
Kareem
Duncan
Magic
KD
Curry
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
Russell

The highest I could put James is 12th at this point.
And yet, this was your post from a while ago, you autistic ******.

Lets also not forget that you said LeBron >> the rapist.


https://i.postimg.cc/W4BnW3Qg/Screenshot-20190522-022611-Samsung-Internet.jpg


Lebron is clearly top 10. I am not big on these all time rankings but come on. I don't see how someone can objectively say he isn't top 10.

He is surely the best SF all time. I loved Bird but his prime was pretty short and he was a weak defender.
We have these sort of idiots.

Case in point:

https://i.postimg.cc/CMPZStx6/Screenshot-20190521-215732-Samsung-Internet.jpg

The same inbred retard thinks that LeBron isn't top 10 right now.



:lol based on what?
Based on every single eye test, metric, and analyst, you ****ing idiot.


Magic's 5/9 in the Finals and beat some of those GOAT Celtics squads, beat DR J in his prime with Kareem out on the road in his damn rookie season, had a title run averaging 15 apg (almost twice as high as Lebron's in any title run). Many people consider 1987 Celtics the best Celtics team in history and Magic annihilated them in the Finals, leading his team in everything except for blocks. He has a better resume than Lebron.
LeBron literally beat the GOAT team. A 73 win team with the 2 time MVP and the current unanimous MVP, another All-NBA player and the 2nd GOAT 3pt shooter, the DPOY, and the reigning FMVP. Not to mention the FACT that he (LeBron) was on a team with ZERO All-Stars or All-NBA players or All-Def players. Magic beat a great team with a shit ton of help, but LeBron beat the actual GOAT team with mediocre help.

The '87 Celtics weren't even better than the '86 Celtics, you mouth breathing retard.

Lets also not ignore the fact that you actually were rooting for against the Lakers this season, while pretending to be a Laker fan all this time.

That's just sad and pathetic.


Russell paved the way for future generations and won more rings than anyone, outplayed Wilt in many Playoff series, including coming back from down 1 - 3 and making Wilt leave his team for LA and then beating him in the Finals the following year.
LeBron literally did all that and he beat:

Duncan
KG
Curry
KD
Westbrook
Harden

All of them are either in the top 20 or gonna end up in the top 20.



2013 Miami Heat (66-16)

ECQF: Milwaukee Bucks (38-44)
ECSF: Chicago Bulls (45-37)
ECF: Indiana Pacers (49-32)

:roll:
1987 Los Angeles Lakers (65-17)

WCQF: Denver Nuggets (37-45)

WCSF: Chicago Bulls (42-40)

WCF: Indiana Pacers (39-43)

Go jump off a cliff, kiddo.

[elementally morale]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

BTW, are you ranking players based on peak or resumes. Seems like you're all over the place.

Anyone who has LeBron worse than #6 should be disqualified from discussing basketball forever.


It is called opinion for a reason. Opinions are legit. You don't have to like them. There are lots of people who have LeBron as the best ever. No problem. To me he is borderline top 10. Surely not top 5.

As for the general consensus, The Godfather and The Shawshank Redemption are both top 3 movies of all time. I can live with that. While I think both films are great, I have neither in my personal top 10. But I don't have a problem with those who do. I've probably watched a lot more movies then they have (95% of the time this is the case) or our tastes just differ (maybe only slightly).

If we all come to a message board to hear from others what we already think it doesn't make much sense to be here. I'm here for different opinions. LeBron being number one all time is one of them. On this board it's popular. In the general public... not so much. So what?

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron literally did all that and he beat:

Duncan
KG
Curry
KD
Westbrook
Harden

All of them are either in the top 20 or gonna end up in the top 20.
Westbrook & Harden in the top 20? No chance in hell bruh :lol

[RealSkipBayless]

2013 Miami Heat (66-16)

ECQF: Milwaukee Bucks (38-44)
ECSF: Chicago Bulls (45-37)
ECF: Indiana Pacers (49-32)

:roll:
:djparty :yaohappy:
:dancin

[3ball]

And yet, this was your post from a while ago, you autistic ******.

Lets also not forget that you said LeBron >> the rapist.


https://i.postimg.cc/W4BnW3Qg/Screenshot-20190522-022611-Samsung-Internet.jpg


We have these sort of idiots.

Case in point:

https://i.postimg.cc/CMPZStx6/Screenshot-20190521-215732-Samsung-Internet.jpg

The same inbred retard thinks that LeBron isn't top 10 right now.



Based on every single eye test, metric, and analyst, you ****ing idiot.


LeBron literally beat the GOAT team. A 73 win team with the 2 time MVP and the current unanimous MVP, another All-NBA player and the 2nd GOAT 3pt shooter, the DPOY, and the reigning FMVP. Not to mention the FACT that he (LeBron) was on a team with ZERO All-Stars or All-NBA players or All-Def players. Magic beat a great team with a shit ton of help, but LeBron beat the actual GOAT team with mediocre help.

The '87 Celtics weren't even better than the '86 Celtics, you mouth breathing retard.

Lets also not ignore the fact that you actually were rooting for against the Lakers this season, while pretending to be a Laker fan all this time.

That's just sad and pathetic.


LeBron literally did all that and he beat:

Duncan
KG
Curry
KD
Westbrook
Harden

All of them are either in the top 20 or gonna end up in the top 20.



1987 Los Angeles Lakers (65-17)

WCQF: Denver Nuggets (37-45)

WCSF: Chicago Bulls (42-40)

WCF: Indiana Pacers (39-43)

Go jump off a cliff, kiddo.
At least a great team was still required to win the 87' West, since the Lakers were a great team and won those Finals

Otoh, the stretch between 2001 and 2009 when AI, Kidd, Lebron, and Dwight made the Finals and got destroyed - that's the only time in history where a bunch of teams that everyone knew were weak, made the Finals and got smashed (confirming their weakness and the conference's)

But even though a strong team wasn't needed to make the Finals, lebron's couldn't make it in 09 and 10', and stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs in the weak conference...

Now that he's gone, we're back to non-star teams winning the East as Kawhi and Giannis don't have any superstar teammates like lebron had the last 8 years

[RealSkipBayless]

LeBron literally did all that and he beat:

Duncan
KG
Curry
KD
Westbrook
Harden


How many times did Duncan, KG, Curry, and KD dick down Lebron though? What happened against Dirk?

:lol :lol :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Now that he's gone, we're back to non-star teams winning the East as Kawhi and Giannis don't have any superstar teammates like lebron had the last 8 years
We all know if LeBron were on either of those teams, you'd be hyping the SHIT out of them :lol

Middleton/Lopez/Bledsoe/Mirotic or Lowry/Siakam/Gasol/Ibaka would then become stacked rosters. We'd see dozens of threads about how Middleton or Siakam were better than Pippen. You ain't fooling anybody

[3ball]

We all know if LeBron were on either of those teams, you'd be hyping the SHIT out of them :lol

Middleton/Lopez/Bledsoe/Mirotic or Lowry/Siakam/Gasol/Ibaka would then become stacked rosters. We'd see dozens of threads about how Middleton or Siakam were better than Pippen. You ain't fooling anybody


^^^ But that's what you're ignoring - we can't say "if" because he already failed to do what Giannis is doing in 09' and 10'..

he had his chance with non-star, 60-win, 1 seeds........ and failed twice, quitting in 10'... so he stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs..

That's why you can't say "if", as if we can just replace guys here and there willy nilly.. Lebron HAD his chance and failed, so he stacked the deck for 8 years - but now he's gone, and order is restored with 1-star teams romping to the Finals like Lebron failed to do in 09' and 10'

A star cast hasn't been needed to win the East since 98', except for Lebron's sabatoge from 11-18', and a couple other more one-off or two-off instances

Unfortunately, people ignore these facts, and are then shocked when the West exposed him..
.

[jstern]

https://i.postimg.cc/CMPZStx6/Screenshot-20190521-215732-Samsung-Internet.jpg

The same inbred retard thinks that LeBron isn't top 10 right now.


It's not a secret that I used to be a Lebron apologist, with Lebron stans currently telling me that I used to be a good poster. Yet suddenly I'm not. (I think maybe you were one of them. It was one of the always angry accounts, so I'm not sure.)

I even talk about how I placed to much stock into his stats. And then seeing how inflated his stats are due to his playing style. A playing style where everybody has to adjust their whole game to suit him, and thus a play style that you cannot build a dynasty with, because the other stars have to sacrifice their game. With Lebron not having the skills to play any other way. Going to the Finals 8 straight times because he plays in one of the weakest conference in sports history, and getting ultra lucky for two of those wins. Letting series go to seven games due to quitting. Missing free throws. Losing to Dwight Howard as an MVP, 66 win team. 2011. I was wrong about saying he's a top five talent.

It's actually humbling to see how wrong I was.

[aj1987]

Westbrook & Harden in the top 20? No chance in hell bruh :lol
I absolutely hate Harden and I'm sure you know that. That being said, dude just put up a ridiculous season. He has an MVP. He has the accolades. If we're considering PO chokes, D-Rob is worse and he's in almost everyone's top 20.

As for Westbrook and Oscar, compare their resumes. They are nearly identical and Oscar played in a x4 version the current NBA. Yet, he's in nearly everyone's top 12-15.


It is called opinion for a reason. Opinions are legit. You don't have to like them. There are lots of people who have LeBron as the best ever. No problem. To me he is borderline top 10. Surely not top 5.

Except for the fact that inthe initial list, you used peaks for some and career for Russell.

As far as opinions and the sort, LeBron is the 2nd player in the history of the sport with 4 MVP's and 3 MVP's. Combine that with his other accolades, metrics, and stats, there aren't more than 2-3 players who have a case over him. That's a fact.

[aj1987]

It's not a secret that I used to be a Lebron apologist, with Lebron stans currently telling me that I used to be a good poster. Yet suddenly I'm not. (I think maybe you were one of them. It was one of the always angry accounts, so I'm not sure.)

I even talk about how I placed to much stock into his stats. And then seeing how inflated his stats are due to his playing style. A playing style where everybody has to adjust their whole game to suit him, and thus a play style that you cannot build a dynasty with, because the other stars have to sacrifice their game. With Lebron not having the skills to play any other way. Going to the Finals 8 straight times because he plays in one of the weakest conference in sports history, and getting ultra lucky for two of those wins. Letting series go to seven games due to quitting. Missing free throws. Losing to Dwight Howard as an MVP, 66 win team. 2011. I was wrong about saying he's a top five talent.

It's actually humbling to see how wrong I was.
You just turned into a trolling autistic piece of shit. Good for you, kid.

EDIT: Everything you just said, is flat out BS. I can dig out tons of your posts. Heck, in the image itself, you were talking about talent and not stats.



At least a great team was still required to win the 87' West, since the Lakers were a great team and won those Finals
The '13 Heat were a great team. We're comparing the '13 Heat's run in the EC to the '87 Lakers. Try to keep up you subhuman chimp.

[FKAri]

I wonder if SVG really believes Lebron > MJ. I don't see how someone in his position can really believe that. He's top 10 without a doubt. I dunno about top 5. Game's changed so much that it's hard to pick between perimeter guys and bigs since it's so era dependent. He's Bird/Magic tier.

[NBAGOAT]

It's not a secret that I used to be a Lebron apologist, with Lebron stans currently telling me that I used to be a good poster. Yet suddenly I'm not. (I think maybe you were one of them. It was one of the always angry accounts, so I'm not sure.)

I even talk about how I placed to much stock into his stats. And then seeing how inflated his stats are due to his playing style. A playing style where everybody has to adjust their whole game to suit him, and thus a play style that you cannot build a dynasty with, because the other stars have to sacrifice their game. With Lebron not having the skills to play any other way. Going to the Finals 8 straight times because he plays in one of the weakest conference in sports history, and getting ultra lucky for two of those wins. Letting series go to seven games due to quitting. Missing free throws. Losing to Dwight Howard as an MVP, 66 win team. 2011. I was wrong about saying he's a top five talent.

It's actually humbling to see how wrong I was.

you are way overselling the portability factor and how many guys need to adjust. Usually one guy on his teams is really sacrificing, the 3rd option in bosh/love who were used to being go to guys. Guys like Shaq and Nash are not portable either and yet people dont move them down 5-10 spots all time. No one says shaq isnt top 10 all time because people have to adjust their games playing with him.

Doesnt have the skills? What about his defense, rebounding and passing(we're talking peak here). Those are additive skills on great teams that make up some for his ball dominance.

Everyone brings up the 09 year now like it was a huge disappointment and i'm perplexed and yes ik he wasnt perfect vs the magic. Carrying the roster to 66 wins is one of the greater floor raising achievements of all time however. Howard has deserved the criticism the last 5 years or so but was a monster mvp candidate back then and the magic had 3 of the 4 best players in the series with 2 other all star types even with jameer injured. The Finals loss made them look bad but this was not some 02 nets, 01 sixers team

[aj1987]

How many times did Duncan, KG, Curry, and KD dick down Lebron though? What happened against Dirk?

:lol :lol :lol
Curry and KD had to team up to beat LeBron, you inbred moron. Two of the greatest to ever lace up, along with the DPOY, a FMVP, and another ATG player had to team up to beat LeBron. All it took to beat Brick was just a bunch of decent players and a great defender on Shaq. Let that sink in.

[elementally morale]

Except for the fact that inthe initial list, you used peaks for some and career for Russell.

As far as opinions and the sort, LeBron is the 2nd player in the history of the sport with 4 MVP's and 3 MVP's. Combine that with his other accolades, metrics, and stats, there aren't more than 2-3 players who have a case over him. That's a fact.


When deciding who the best ones for me are I can use whichever criteria I please. This is a fact. Another fact is that you don't like my criteria. Your opinion is this: my opinion shouldn't count. It is a fact that it is your opinion. It is also a fact that in my opinion all opinions count.

The concept is not hard.

[aj1987]

When deciding who the best ones for me are I can use whichever criteria I please. This is a fact. Another fact is that you don't like my criteria. Your opinion is this: my opinion shouldn't count. It is a fact that it is your opinion. It is also a fact that in my opinion all opinions count.

The concept is not hard.
:oldlol:

Fact #1 - Your original list is completely misconstrued and your criteria are all over the place. You, as a physicist, should know better than that.

Fact #2 - LeBron is the only player (not named MJ) in the history of the sport with 3 FMVP's and 4 MVP's. The divide increases further as we keep adding in other factors (since you're a physicist) such as stats, advanced metrics, clutch stats, elimination games, etc..

Fact #3 - I'm saying your opinion is... well... kenny level.

[elementally morale]

:oldlol:

Fact #1 - Your original list is completely misconstrued and your criteria are all over the place. You, as a physicist, should know better than that.

Fact #2 - LeBron is the only player (not named MJ) in the history of the sport with 3 FMVP's and 4 MVP's. The divide increases further as we keep adding in other factors (since you're a physicist) such as stats, advanced metrics, clutch stats, elimination games, etc..

Fact #3 - I'm saying your opinion is... well... kenny level.


First off, I don't really like all-time lists. It's either real facts and there is not much to debate. Or it is opinion... can be talked about but not decided.

Then there is this: I simply don't care who the best player is. I watch the sport to be entertained. If I like to watch Steve Nash play (and I did) as well as Dirk (and I did) I don't care who was better. Can be argued both ways. Nowadays, Dirk may win in a debate but only because of his ring. Now... was Dirk's greatness the result of one really well played Finals? I don't think so.

Telling you something else: LeBron James talk is boring to me. Kobe talk is boring, too. Jordan talk... absolutely boring. Who was better... it depends on when you were young (a teen, late teen or very young adult) and which team you were rooting for. Someone being under/around 25 now... sure they will lean towards LeBron. People over 40 will say Jordan. 35 and older Laker fans will say Kobe was better than LeBron but not as good as Jordan. People who are younger or disliked the Lakers will say Kobe is not top 20. It's rather irrelevant talk.

So when deciding who the greatest for me... I go with emotions. And I like it that way. Yes, I know the stats. Yes, I know who won what. I simply don't care. It's not science. It IS a popularity contest among the greatest. Basketball is not and should not become science. The minute is does it will lose all meaning. The great thing about it is we don't have to agree.

[aj1987]

First off, I don't really like all-time lists. It's either real facts and there is not much to debate. Or it is opinion... can be talked about but not decided.

Then there is this: I simply don't care who the best player is. I watch the sport to be entertained. If I like to watch Steve Nash play (and I did) as well as Dirk (and I did) I don't care who was better. Can be argued both ways. Nowadays, Dirk may win in a debate but only because of his ring. Now... was Dirk's greatness the result of one really well played Finals? I don't think so.


Telling you something else: LeBron James talk is boring to me. Kobe talk is boring, too. Jordan talk... absolutely boring. Who was better... it depends on when you were young (a teen, late teen or very young adult) and which team you were rooting for. Someone being under/around 25 now... sure they will lean towards LeBron. People over 40 will say Jordan. 35 and older Laker fans will say Kobe was better than LeBron but not as good as Jordan. People who are younger or disliked the Lakers will say Kobe is not top 20. It's rather irrelevant talk.

So when deciding who the greatest for me... I go with emotions. And I like it that way. Yes, I know the stats. Yes, I know who won what. I simply don't care. It's not science. It IS a popularity contest among the greatest. Basketball is not and should not become science. The minute is does it will lose all meaning. The great thing about it is we don't have to agree.
So, you rate players on entertainment factor? If so, you shouldn't have mentioned peaks or resumes in your initial post, when putting out your list. Would've made it easier.

If you are basing it off of strictly entertainment factor, I wouldn't have even touched your post.

Oh, and outside probably 2-3 troll posts, I've never said that LeBron is a better player than MJ. Ever. I mean, I can literally prove that using statistics as well. However, LeBron is in a different (and higher) tier compared to Kobe.

[elementally morale]

So, you rate players on entertainment factor?


Partly, yes. And I like it this way. It's not a bad thing at all.

There are good books. So which is the best? The one I like best. Not the best selling book or the one that made the biggest impact on society (that's also pretty hard to decide btw.)

There are many many great players. Who was better, Bird or Magic? I don't know. Hakeem or Shaq? I don't know. Duncan or Barkley? I don't know. And I don't care at all. They were all pretty damn good. I can tell you which player I enjoyed the most watching among these great players.

Sure, when it comes to all-time lists you TRY to be somewhat reasonable. So even though I'm bored to death watching LeBron post 2010... I won't tell you he is not top 50. I know he is great. But from my perspective, his resume is very close to being 1-8 in the Finals. A lucky shot and a suspension away. And yes, he could have 4 rings. And Kobe could easily have 7. Does it change anything? Not for me.

We don't have to decide and agree on who we think the best was for us.

[elementally morale]

If you are basing it off of strictly entertainment factor, I wouldn't have even touched your post.


Not strictly. E.g.: White Chocolate was a lot more entertaining than John Stockton but I won't rate him higher. Entertainment comes in when players are close and I want to decide.

But it is the same for everyone. We are human. We have feelings... and then we rationalize. We tend to think that our opinions are more meaningful if we can back them up with facts. It is not true. Our opinions are just that: our opinions. Why do you think there are more and more advanced stats? Well... someone felt something and wanted to 'prove' his feeling was legit.

You say you are reasonable... yet you post things like Kobe is not top 50 and Westbrook is top 20. Well... you will have a hard time proving that... or be very selective with data and criteria. On the other hand... you may feel that way. And there is no problem with that at all.

[aj1987]

Partly, yes. And I like it this way. It's not a bad thing at all.

There are good books. So which is the best? The one I like best. Not the best selling book or the one that made the biggest impact on society (that's also pretty hard to decide btw.)

There are many many great players. Who was better, Bird or Magic? I don't know. Hakeem or Shaq? I don't know. Duncan or Barkley? I don't know. And I don't care at all. They were all pretty damn good. I can tell you which player I enjoyed the most watching among these great players.

Sure, when it comes to all-time lists you TRY to be somewhat reasonable. So even though I'm bored to death watching LeBron post 2010... I won't tell you he is not top 50. I know he is great.

We don't have to decide and agree on who we think the best was for us.
It definitely is not. Definitely agree with you. :cheers:

Going purely by entertainment fact, I would have either Shaq or Wade as my GOAT's. They're 2 of my favorite players.



But from my perspective, his resume is very close to being 1-8 in the Finals. A lucky shot and a suspension away. And yes, he could have 4 rings. And Kobe could easily have 7. Does it change anything? Not for me.
How did you get 1-8? Even if Allen misses, there was time on the clock. If Irving missed, it was just a miss, as the scores were tied and the Warriors were pretty much getting shut down.

Then again, if Brian Cardinal doesn't hip check Wade, that's probably one more chip.

If just Irving doesn't get injured in '15, that's another one.

You bring up the suspension, but fail to acknowledge the accumulation of Flagrant Foul points he had through out the PO's. It wasn't a suspension based on a single game. Then again, lets not ignore Love's injury, Kyrie's injury, JR's injury, Shump's injury, etc..

If KD doesn't go to the Warriors, the Finals would've been WIDE freaking open.

If we're doing hypotheticals, I can see LeBron winning at least 5-6 chips.

Anyways, I'm out for today. Will check in on this thread either tomorrow or in the next couple of days. :cheers:

[elementally morale]

How did you get 1-8?

(...)

If we're doing hypotheticals, I can see LeBron winning at least 5-6 chips.




Sure. And him having 1 ring or 5 doesn't change my opinion. Barkley has zero. In my book he was no worse than Duncan who has... a lot. Harden has a very high ppg average this year. It doesn't change my opinion of his game.

The media wants us to believe: it either this or that. You have to choose. In general: two choices. Bird or Magic. And now: MJ or LeBron. As if those two were the only great players. Nonsense. They are among the greatests who also had the most media hype.

Nobody is talking about Tim Duncan. I may still like him.

:cheers:

[ImKobe]

Go jump off a cliff, kiddo.

Imagine being this upset over someone's personal opinion. I said he was about 8-9 range in 2016 at 3/7.

Since then, Curry's on his way to passing Bran in rings and KD is about to tie him in titles & FMVPs. Those two kick him out of the top 10.

Curry's impacted the league more than anyone in the modern era and Durant has been the better player for three years now. It's time to let go.

[bigkingsfan]

Imagine being this upset over someone's personal opinion. I said he was about 8-9 range in 2016 at 3/7.

Since then, Curry's on his way to passing Bran in rings and KD is about to tie him in titles & FMVPs. Those two kick him out of the top 10.
***** please, you called him #2 all time after the finals ended.

[ImKobe]

***** please, you called him #2 all time after the finals ended.

:lol you thought I was being serious?

Isn't he 2nd all-time in Finals losses behind Jerry West? Someone fetch me the stats.

[bigkingsfan]

:lol you thought I was being serious?

Isn't he 2nd all-time in Finals losses behind Jerry West? Someone fetch me the stats.
Even you were in awe after 2016, don't lie baby boi.

[NBAGOAT]

Imagine being this upset over someone's personal opinion. I said he was about 8-9 range in 2016 at 3/7.

Since then, Curry's on his way to passing Bran in rings and KD is about to tie him in titles & FMVPs. Those two kick him out of the top 10.

Curry's impacted the league more than anyone in the modern era and Durant has been the better player for three years now. It's time to let go.

being better for the last 3 doesnt throw out the first like 10 :oldlol:. Importance to the league shouldnt have that big an effect on all time list which just asks how good were you for your era. Both still have a long way to go to pass lebron. I dont think durant ever can unless he takes his game to another level which is unlikely.

[ImKobe]

being better for the last 3 doesnt throw out the first like 10 :oldlol:. Importance to the league shouldnt have that big an effect on all time list which just asks how good were you for your era. Both still have a long way to go to pass lebron. I dont think durant ever can unless he takes his game to another level which is unlikely.

First 10? KD was 23 when they first met in the Finals and he was already putting up 30 on 65%TS in the series then. 2014 he was the MVP, 2015 injured, 2016 is the only year you would give to Lebron post-2013.

What is there about his game that he has to improve upon? Have you seen him in the Finals against Lebron? Did you see what he was doing in these Playoffs before he got injured?

[RRR3]

Imagine being this upset over someone's personal opinion. I said he was about 8-9 range in 2016 at 3/7.

Since then, Curry's on his way to passing Bran in rings and KD is about to tie him in titles & FMVPs. Those two kick him out of the top 10.

Curry's impacted the league more than anyone in the modern era and Durant has been the better player for three years now. It's time to let go.
It’s not your real opinion, though.

You’re just asshurt he’s better than your loverboy.

You think we’re stupid?

There’s a reason the majority of LeBron haters are Kobetards.

[NBAGOAT]

First 10? KD was 23 when they first met in the Finals and he was already putting up 30 on 65%TS in the series then. 2014 he was the MVP, 2015 injured, 2016 is the only year you would give to Lebron post-2013.

What is there about his game that he has to improve upon? Have you seen him in the Finals against Lebron? Did you see what he was doing in these Playoffs before he got injured?

i'm exaggerating but you get the idea. Pre 2012 years ofc count for now(durant's prime started in 2010). We'll be able to do a comparison when both careers end but i doubt durant catches bron. He hasnt had a year like 09 or 13 bron yet.

Yea i saw. Become an all-nba level defender and/or great passer maybe. He's a great scorer from every area in the court but he's not quite top top tier for his career like in the 99 percentile(his midrange shooting is that level with gs but I kind of want to see him replicate it somewhere else). 3pt shooting has room to grow. Like obviously if he becomes a klay level 3pt shooter, he's even better.

[Vino24]

31 accounts on here should be Permabanned.

[ImKobe]

i'm exaggerating but you get the idea. Pre 2012 years ofc count for now(durant's prime started in 2010). We'll be able to do a comparison when both careers end but i doubt durant catches bron. He hasnt had a year like 09 or 13 bron yet.

Yea i saw. Become an all-nba level defender and/or great passer maybe. He's a great scorer from every area in the court but he's not quite top top tier for his career like in the 99 percentile(his midrange shooting is that level with gs but I kind of want to see him replicate it somewhere else). 3pt shooting has room to grow. Like obviously if he becomes a klay level 3pt shooter, he's even better.

His 3PT% is just fine as it is, he had a down year shooting the 3 in the RS but he has a higher 3PT% in these Playoffs than both Steph & Klay.

2017, he shot 44.2% from 3 in the POs, over 5% higher than Klay and at a similar volume.

His mid-range numbers really are amazing though. He's reached peak efficiency.

[scuzzy]

can we get a headcount of all the butthurt Kobe/MJ stans? :oldlol:

[RRR3]

can we get a headcount of all the butthurt Kobe/MJ stans? :oldlol:
In this poll?


Butthurt Kobetards: BallsOut, BigKobeFan, ImKobe, kennethgriffen, nineiron, PickernRoller, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist, winwin/zizozain (same person)

Butthurt Jordan stans: 3ball, 90sgoat, gileraracer, jstern, paksat, pegasus


Kinda guessing on nineiron, gileraracer and pegasus, tho, I could be wrong.

The rest are butthurt for other reasons or I just don’t know who they stan.

[NBAGOAT]

His 3PT% is just fine as it is, he had a down year shooting the 3 in the RS but he has a higher 3PT% in these Playoffs than both Steph & Klay.

2017, he shot 44.2% from 3 in the POs, over 5% higher than Klay and at a similar volume.

His mid-range numbers really are amazing though. He's reached peak efficiency.

well ofc it's fine but he would be better if it was better. I'll focus more on the playmaking then even though defense could be better too. Of all the great perimeter scorers of all time(so non post-up bigs basically), he's definitely below average as a playmaker. He's gotten better with gs but there's def room for growth. I would like to see his midrange numbers somewhere else since they werent this great with okc. I still have doubts he's mj or dirk level there

[scuzzy]

In this poll?


Butthurt Kobetards: BallsOut, BigKobeFan, ImKobe, kennethgriffen, nineiron, PickernRoller, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist, winwin/zizozain (same person)

Butthurt Jordan stans: 3ball, 90sgoat, gileraracer, jstern, paksat, pegasus


Kinda guessing on nineiron, gileraracer and pegasus, tho, I could be wrong.

The rest are butthurt for other reasons or I just don’t know who they stan.
:roll: :roll:

[LostCause]

I have Jordan as GOAT with Kareem at 2.

It makes 0 sense to have LeBron outside your Top 10 though. His peaks are high, his longevity will undoubtedly be the best of all time, he has the requisite accolades, statistics and awards. Doesn’t matter what your criteria is, he meets it at a level to at WORST be a Top 5 player all time. It’s not hard to argue him being Top 3 or Top 2, even has a case for GOAT

Crazy this thread went so many pages lol

[Leviathon1121]

Pretty sure 9/10 who voted no, like me, did it to **** with Simon, it was clearly effective.

[And1AllDay]

Pretty sure 9/10 who voted no, like me, did it to **** with Simon, it was clearly effective.

This one was a landslide victory tho...See how dumb polls can be with agendas


https://i.postimg.cc/ydfr9wvd/12be-poll.png

[aj1987]

Imagine being this upset over someone's personal opinion. I said he was about 8-9 range in 2016 at 3/7.
Imagine spending your live on a message board typing up walls of made up shit, just because your life revolves around a grown man playing a sport and making millions off of it.


Since then, Curry's on his way to passing Bran in rings and KD is about to tie him in titles & FMVPs. Those two kick him out of the top 10.
That's weird, because LeBron is consensus top 3. Meanwhile, Brick got kicked out of the top 40 in 2016 by Curry after he won his 2nd MVP. Let that sink in, kiddo.


Curry's impacted the league more than anyone in the modern era and Durant has been the better player for three years now. It's time to let go.
Except for the FACT that LeBron has been the best player in the world until he got injured this season. Stop melting just because your idol was never a top 5 player in the league. :cheers:

[SpaceJam2]

Imagine spending your live on a message board typing up walls of made up shit, just because your life revolves around a grown man playing a sport and making millions off of it.


That's weird, because LeBron is consensus top 3. Meanwhile, Brick got kicked out of the top 40 in 2016 by Curry after he won his 2nd MVP. Let that sink in, kiddo.


Except for the FACT that LeBron has been the best player in the world until he got injured this season. Stop melting just because your idol was never a top 5 player in the league. :cheers:

We know the truth :cheers:

LeBar has been set good luck to all participants

https://i.postimg.cc/wj650XHS/1557790886267.jpg

[stalkerforlife]

He's not even better than Kawhi, so hell no.

[SpaceJam2]

Arguable Top 1
Consensus Top 2
Cemented Top 3


It is what it is, just facts

:applause: :applause:

[72-10]

decided to bump this due to current relevance

[SouBeachTalents]

decided to bump this due to current relevance
Thanks bro, if there's one thing ISH needed it was for someone to bump a LeBron thread made 3 months ago. A LeBron thread asking literally THE least original question imaginable :lol

[72-10]

Thanks bro, if there's one thing ISH needed it was for someone to bump a LeBron thread made 3 months ago. A LeBron thread asking literally THE least original question imaginable :lol

I don't know how you could rank on my poll, bro. The votes are pretty split, and it doesn't appear many alts voted. Ballers sure did tho.

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't know how you could rank on my poll, bro. The votes are pretty split, and it doesn't appear many alts voted. Ballers sure did tho.
ISH is the only place on earth, besides maybe a Laker forum, that LeBron being top 10 would be even remotely debatable

[egokiller]

20 of those votes in favor of lebron are the same poster :roll:

[Sakkreth]

Yeah, number 3.

[Manny98]

LeBron is not even top 50 tbh

[PickernRoller]

Top 15 behind Dr. J.

His stans could make a case for up to # 8 but that's about it.

[aj1987]

Top 15 behind Dr. J.

His stans could make a case for up to # 8 but that's about it.
If you think LeBron is behind top 15, you need to kill yourself right now.

I mean, you should've been thrown off a cliff the second you were born, cape coral ******. :cheers:

[sdot_thadon]

Bumped another perfect example of why ish isn't to be taken seriously. If I'm discussing hoops with someone and they tell me bron James isn't top 10 I'm changing the subject because they aren't worth having a discussion with.

[stalkerforlife]

Bumped another perfect example of why ish isn't to be taken seriously. If I'm discussing hoops with someone and they tell me bron James isn't top 10 I'm changing the subject because they aren't worth having a discussion with.

The reason you are still entertaining it is because deep down, you know your favorite player isn't top 10.

No player in the top 10 team hopped multiple times in their prime in possibly the worst conference of all time and completely destroyed the possibility of competition by stacking his teams with established superstars.

Not one single top 10 player.

And an exception won't be made.

ESPECIALLY after the NBA fixed 2016 for him and allowed him to take steroids openly and play illegally.

[PickernRoller]

The reason you are still entertaining it is because deep down, you know your favorite player isn't top 10.

No player in the top 10 team hopped multiple times in their prime in possibly the worst conference of all time and completely destroyed the possibility of competition by stacking his teams with established superstars.

Not one single top 10 player.

And an exception won't be made.

ESPECIALLY after the NBA fixed 2016 for him and allowed him to take steroids openly and play illegally.

Facts.

You could write a book about bran's cowardliness, anti-competitiveness, short-cutting, toxicity, narcissistic personality and overratedness. It really makes short-to-point posts like yours fall short - and it already says a lot.

[stalkerforlife]

Facts.

You could write a book about bran's cowardliness, anti-competitiveness, short-cutting, toxicity, narcissistic personality and overratedness. It really makes short-to-point posts like yours fall short - and it already says a lot.

Another one.

[Smoke117]

If you don't think LeBron James is a top 10 player of all time then your opinion is worthless and not my time. It's as simple as that. I don't even like him, but that he is top 10 is just a simple fact. If you hate him so much that you can't accept that then pretty much are a joke that isn't worth my time in any basketball discussion since you obviously know nothing about the game. That or your bias has made you so deranged you can't even see straight.

[SpaceJammeR]

If you don't think LeBron James is a top 10 player of all time then your opinion is worthless and not my time. It's as simple as that. I don't even like him, but that he is top 10 is just a simple fact. If you hate him so much that you can't accept that then pretty much are a joke that isn't worth my time in any basketball discussion since you obviously know nothing about the game. That or your bias has made you so deranged you can't even see straight.

this.

but you can't take a forum like this serious. most guys that don't have lebron in top 10 are trolls or delusional.

[LAmbruh]

poor Brick stains


they brought out all the alts and still got molly wopped :oldlol:



https://media.giphy.com/media/h4R3CamOsE8Sc/giphy.gif


:hammertime: :yaohappy:

[Smoke117]

If you don't think LeBron James is a top 10 player of all time then your opinion is worthless and not my time. It's as simple as that. I don't even like him, but that he is top 10 is just a simple fact. If you hate him so much that you can't accept that then pretty much are a joke that isn't worth my time in any basketball discussion since you obviously know nothing about the game. That or your bias has made you so deranged you can't even see straight.

This is pretty much why I only come to this board when I'm drunk. Unless inebrebiate myself to the level of the piss ants on this board it's just a roll eying bore. Shrug I'm not just drinking a lot less so that's why I don't come on here much. Tonight I'm enjoying a bottle, but I won't for another week or so which means I won't come here again for a week as...why would I? I actually want to discuss basketball with people who know something about it and this board offers none of that.

[ILLsmak]

This is pretty much why I only come to this board when I'm drunk. Unless inebrebiate myself to the level of the piss ants on this board it's just a roll eying bore. Shrug I'm not just drinking a lot less so that's why I don't come on here much. Tonight I'm enjoying a bottle, but I won't for another week or so which means I won't come here again for a week as...why would I? I actually want to discuss basketball with people who know something about it and this board offers none of that.

how many bottles is 23000 posts? kekeke.

Sorry I'm in a weird mood tonite. Past my bedtime. AT THE KEYBOARD BROS. Time for real soviet trolling.

You underestimate us, smoke. You should know who is serious and who isn't, and if people who aren't serious trigger you, you're the one who took the L. Coming into a Bron thread to discuss bball is your first mistake.

Love ya,

-Smak

[superduper]

poor Brick stains


they brought out all the alts and still got molly wopped :oldlol:



https://media.giphy.com/media/h4R3CamOsE8Sc/giphy.gif


:hammertime: :yaohappy:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471024

[sdot_thadon]

The reason you are still entertaining it is because deep down, you know your favorite player isn't top 10....
This is quick and easy. Lebron James:
only 3 players...ever with more Mvps
only 1 player...ever with more finals mvps
only 3 , maybe 4 players...ever to win more rings as the man
plus too many statistical accomplishments to list

unquestionably top 10, easily top 5

and bonus points

He has 4 times the mvps your favorite player does.
He's won more titles as the man than your favorite player has.


No player in the top 10 team hopped multiple times in their prime... Shaq and Wilt did buddy. They are both decidedly top 10.


in possibly the worst conference of all time .....
That honor belongs to the west the showtime lakers faced. Those guys made it to the finals a couple of times without seeing a 50 win team at all.


and completely
destroyed the possibility of competition by stacking his teams with established superstars.

Not one single top 10 player.

And an exception won't be made.
Completely destroyed the possibilty of competition yet has lost with healthy teams. Dramatic much?



ESPECIALLY after the NBA fixed 2016 for him and allowed him to take steroids openly and play illegally.
:oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

This is quick and easy. Lebron James:
only 3 players...ever with more Mvps
only 1 player...ever with more finals mvps
only 3 , maybe 4 players...ever to win more rings as the man
plus too many statistical accomplishments to list

unquestionably top 10, easily top 5

and bonus points

He has 4 times the mvps your favorite player does.
He's won more titles as the man than your favorite player has.

Shaq and Wilt did buddy. They are both decidedly top 10.


That honor belongs to the west the showtime lakers faced. Those guys made it to the finals a couple of times without seeing a 50 win team at all.


Completely destroyed the possibilty of competition yet has lost with healthy teams. Dramatic much?


:oldlol:

Another one.

You're seething because everything I said is true.

:cheers:

[sdot_thadon]

Another one.

You're seething because everything I said is true.

:cheers:
Seething? over you bro? You never even make quality posts or discussions. You're bored of this place but have no where better to be. It's obvious

[Inferno]

No question.

[SouBeachTalents]

Seething? over you bro? You never even make quality posts or discussions. You're bored of this place but have no where better to be. It's obvious
Damn :(

[Bronbron23]

Yes easily. He's probably 6th behind mj, Kobe, Russell, karem and magic.

[Meticode]

Currently for me he's 6th or 7th. By the time his career is over. He'll be 4th or 5th if he can break Kareem's scoring record. If he can win one more ring as a prime player, he'll slip in the Top 3 for me. He won't crack the Top 3 without another ring though. Some of these lists online have Durant at 7 already and excluded Kobe from the Top 10 all together. :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Imagine thinking LeBrons not at least top 2 in 2019 :roll:

Ya'll must be trolling

[Meticode]

Imagine thinking LeBrons not at least top 2 in 2019 :roll:

Ya'll must be trolling
I'm not trolling personally. I've been critical of him his whole career. I legit feel at this time he is not a Top 5 All-Time player.

[Bronbron23]

Imagine thinking LeBrons not at least top 2 in 2019 :roll:

Ya'll must be trolling
It remains to be seen. He's on the decline and age is a bitch. Hes fought it better than probably anyone in the history of the game but it's gonna get him at some point soon. I wouldn't be surprised if it's this year. Kawhi, Greek and even a motivated Steph could all end up being better.

[TheCorporation]

Yes easily. He's probably 6th behind mj, Kobe, Russell, karem and magic.



He said Kobe :lol

Fail

[TheMan]

Top 10 easily...stop trolling.

I have him #6 currently and will probably end top 3 or 4.

I cannot put him above MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Magic and Shaq. Duncan and Bird have an argument over him but IMO he's right in that tier.

[TheMan]

Imagine thinking LeBrons not at least top 2 in 2019 :roll:

Ya'll must be trolling
You picked Kyle Korver in the 6th round of the ISH All Time draft a few weeks ago, you know nothing of the game of basketball :oldlol:

^ these are the clueless kids LeBron has making his case :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Top 10 easily...stop trolling.

I have him #6 currently and will probably end top 3 or 4.

I cannot put him above MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Magic and Shaq. Duncan and Bird have an argument over him but IMO he's right in that tier.
No Russell?

[TheMan]

No Russell?
Russell was the greatest winner but he's not even the best 2 way player at his position. No way you'll ever convince me that he was an all around better bigman than Wilt, KAJ, Hakeem, Shaq and Timmy D...hell I'd take DRobinson and Ewing over Russell...but I have Russell at #9 because he was the leader of that HOFer stacked 60's Celtics.

[GimmeThat]

am I suppose to expect these posters failed accounting in school but not in the real world?

[aj1987]

The resident retard list:

3ball, 72-10, 90sgoat, Achilleas, BallsOut, Big164, BigKobeFan, Cleverness, dazzer87, egokiller, eurobum, Gileraracer, ImKobe, itsGameTime, jstern, kennethgriffen, LeCola, Leviathon1121, Manny98, nineiron, Objectivity, paksat, pauk, pegasus, PickernRoller, Proctor, Reggie43, ronniec, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist, Walk on Water, winwin, zizozain

[Vino24]

The resident retard list:

3ball, 72-10, 90sgoat, Achilleas, BallsOut, Big164, BigKobeFan, Cleverness, dazzer87, egokiller, eurobum, Gileraracer, ImKobe, itsGameTime, jstern, kennethgriffen, LeCola, Leviathon1121, Manny98, nineiron, Objectivity, paksat, pauk, pegasus, PickernRoller, Proctor, Reggie43, ronniec, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist, Walk on Water, winwin, zizozain
all of these accounts for on guy :eek:

[3ball]

He isn't in the 100% lock top 10 list because at least 9 guys have clear-cut arguments against him

Stats - Wilt, MJ, others

Rings - magic, Kobe, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell...... And bird has a skills argument over everyone

[aj1987]

He isn't in the 100% lock top 10 list because at least 9 guys have clear-cut arguments against him

Stats - Wilt, MJ, others

Rings - magic, Kobe, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell...... And bird has a skills argument over everyone
Making his case stronger as to why he's on the Mt. Rushmore of retards on the internet. :applause:

[PickernRoller]

He isn't in the 100% lock top 10 list because at least 9 guys have clear-cut arguments against him

Stats - Wilt, MJ, others

Rings - magic, Kobe, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell...... And bird has a skills argument over everyone

Pretty much. 1/3 of the votes against him. With time, and with the marketing machine fading... he'll slide even more.

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah because ish is the most respectable source of opinion on Lebron. :lol

[aj1987]

Yeah because ish is the most respectable source of opinion on Lebron. :lol
Not to mention the "people" who voted no have a combined IQ of 14.

[Vino24]

Not to mention the "people" who voted no have a combined IQ of 14.
"they" are actually just one person

[sdot_thadon]

Not to mention the "people" who voted no have a combined IQ of 14.
I'm in awe, it's 2019 and these ancient troll topics are still a thing.

[PickernRoller]

Salty tears from a flock of a chicken.

[LAmbruh]

Khaled.gif

:hammertime: :dancin

https://media.giphy.com/media/h4R3CamOsE8Sc/giphy.gif

[72-10]

If someone posted a bunch of garbage, and showed no actual knowledge of the game, would you think that person could play the game well or had a respected opinion?:confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

Top 3

[3ball]

Top 3
That's media hype

He's below Bird/Kobe

[egokiller]

Pretty much. 1/3 of the votes against him. With time, and with the marketing machine fading... he'll slide even more.

When he was 3/7, only 1/5th of the votes didn’t have him in the top 10. As time goes on and he retires, you’ll see all time rankings having him outside the top 10. There’s already a poll on here that has Hakeem above him and dream is in the 10/11 spot on most people’s lists. This thread is just another “we were right the whole time” thread.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Most probably.

[Full Court]

He is for now.....

But Curry may push him out if he can carry the team to another championship.

[kawhileonard2]

Missed playoffs with peak Westbrook on his squad. Never happened with Harden, KD, Beal.