If the Warriors win it all without KD, does that devalue his rings even more?

[Wally450]

The Warriors are moving the ball around like its 2016 and Steph Curry is playing like an MVP again. If they win it all with KD still on the shelf, what would that say about KD's two rings?

We already don't value them as it is, but would this be the final nail in the coffin?

[nayte]

No offence but only u retards devalue them. Which there is alot so don't be lonely.

[Wally450]

No offence but only u retards devalue them. Which there is alot so don't be lonely.

Most NBA fans don't put any merit on KD's rings.

Them winning without him would only further that claim.

[Smoke117]

Obviously.

[Uncle Drew]

How can valueless rings get any less valuable?

[kennethgriffen]

well they only needed him to beat lebron cause currys a beta male when facing his idol


so not really. not to anyone with a brain. they were barely worth anything to begin with TBH

[Bronbron23]

The Warriors are moving the ball around like its 2016 and Steph Curry is playing like an MVP again. If they win it all with KD still on the shelf, what would that say about KD's two rings?

We already don't value them as it is, but would this be the final nail in the coffin?
No more than you would devalue Steph's rings. What's the difference between what the warriors are doing now without kd and what the warriors did in 16 without Steph? The warriors are a true system. Dray,Klay and Steph are equally important

[ArbitraryWater]

https://i.gyazo.com/d9b0a0066c6db334a70fd1e99aaeaae8.png

[TheCorporation]

Most NBA fans don't put any merit on KD's rings.

Them winning without him would only further that claim.

High IQ poster :applause:

[Levity]

really sucks for KD that you guys dont value his rings :(

[Smoke117]

really sucks for KD that you guys dont value his rings :(

Sarcasm aside, it clearly matters to him. If it didn't he wouldn't have burner accounts defending himself. Everyone knows what a sensitive little nancy he is.

[k0kakw0rld]

No offence but only u retards devalue them. Which there is alot so don't be lonely.
C.J. Mccollum voiced his opinion on the KD situation. But again your opinion matters more than the rest of the world so yeah...

[Levity]

Everyone knows what a sensitive little nancy he is.

Oh i know. i still get a good laugh at picturing his self-thrown championship parade he had in DC that no one showed up to.

That look of defeat on his face while celebrating his championship will forever be lul worthy to me.

[elementally morale]

Only if he fails to win at least another ring on another team as the best player. If KD goes elsewhere and he can win 1-2 or two rings as the leader, that's a top 15 career easily. Maybe top 10. (Same for Steph w/o KD.) If KD doesn't win on his own... that will devalue his rings.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think they will win without him, but yea...if they win a ring this year without him...of course it does.

Because it wouldn't even be with another player in place of him...it would be straight up without him.

Again, I don't think they will...I think they'll wear down, but if they did? Yea, how could anyone argue otherwise?

[Smoke117]

If he ends up not being able to play do you think he will actually be rooting for the Warriors to lose? Of course publicly he'll be saying all the right things, but privately you gotta think he'd rather have them lose. With everyone knowing he's leaving and with his whole spat with Draymond...for him to go down and the Warriors to win would just be devastating for the value of his two championships there.

[elementally morale]

I don't think they will win without him, but yea...if they win a ring this year without him...of course it does.

Because it wouldn't even be with another player in place of him...it would be straight up without him.

Again, I don't think they will...I think they'll wear down, but if they did? Yea, how could anyone argue otherwise?


I think if they win without him this year that will be a testament to the greatness of the GSW team and especially Steph Curry. Not a direct hit on KD. A direct hit is: if he either chooses not to compete on another team (his own) or he does but fails to win (which is by the way likely, because it's hard to be on a good enough team being able to compete).

[DMAVS41]

I think if they win without him this year that will be a testament to the greatness of the GSW team and especially Steph Curry. Not a direct hit on KD. A direct hit is: if he either chooses not to compete on another team (his own) or he does but fails to win (which is by the way likely, because it's hard to be on a good enough team being able to compete).

This is about the value of his rings, not him as a player.

So how could it not reduce the value of his 17 and 18 rings if the damn team won a title without him. Again, not replacing him with another really good forward or something, but straight up without him...with no time to prepare really...etc.?

Of course it would.

As has been mentioned previously as well, his rings already hold low value. But this would take it to a whole other level.

[elementally morale]

This is about the value of his rings, not him as a player.

So how could it not reduce the value of his 17 and 18 rings if the damn team won a title without him. Again, not replacing him with another really good forward or something, but straight up without him...with no time to prepare really...etc.?

Of course it would.

As has been mentioned previously as well, his rings already hold low value. But this would take it to a whole other level.


I think people won't hold it against him if he goes elsewhere and wins again. After all, he won multiple Finals MVPs... and if he wins somewhere else, too... He will survive. But that's just something I think.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yup.

I really doubt they beat Milwaukee BUT if they did? GS would've beaten 2-3 quality teams without Durant. No replacement and with mediocre depth too.

Assuming he wins FMVP, Curry's stock would rise. Totally.

[And1AllDay]

If he ends up not being able to play do you think he will actually be rooting for the Warriors to lose? Of course publicly he'll be saying all the right things, but privately you gotta think he'd rather have them lose. With everyone knowing he's leaving and with his whole spat with Draymond...for him to go down and the Warriors to win would just be devastating for the value of his two championships there.

I thought about this too

Considering he cant play Im sure he would not want them to win honestly. If Warriors lose it boosts his legacy and if Warriors win it hurts his a bunch

He would get a "ring" if they win but wouldn't even be playing so technically not a ring so its really just all downside for him and no upside if they win

[DMAVS41]

I think people won't hold it against him if he goes elsewhere and wins again. After all, he won multiple Finals MVPs... and if he wins somewhere else, too... He will survive. But that's just something I think.

Again...you are talking about something completely different.

His rings on the Warriors will of course lose value if that were to happen.

If he then wins another ring somewhere else...it won't do anything to increase the value of the Warriors rings...it would just improve his legacy.

[3ball]

Yes it does unfortunately

If you added prime Barkley to the 72-win bulls, would that devalue his rings?

You betcha

So we must hope the Warriors lose, to preserve Durant's rings and diminish lebron's 16' fluke-job... :applause:

Sorry Dingo.. Greek freek coming for ya

[tpols]

I mean... they were already a dynasty without him and picked the pace right back up rn even whilst being as fat and satisfied as a team could ever be. A motivated dubs squad is a dynasty period.

[3ball]

I mean... they were already a dynasty without him and picked the pace right back up rn even whilst being as fat and satisfied as a team could ever be. A motivated dubs squad is a dynasty period.
i agree with all this

IF they win it this year without him.

I honestly hope he doesn't come back

All this team-hopping has distorted things. It would be nice to know if the Warriors are for real atg or not

[Wally450]

I think people won't hold it against him if he goes elsewhere and wins again. After all, he won multiple Finals MVPs... and if he wins somewhere else, too... He will survive. But that's just something I think.

If they lost this year then Durant went elsewhere and won a championship, especially someplace like New York, it would change my opinion of him completely.

I would actually look at it as the Warriors wouldn't have those championships in 17 and 18 without him, regardless of the 73 wins, the 2015 championship, etc.

[Young X]

The devaluing rings shit is stupid. It's not like he's a role player or something.

The guy averaged 35 on 70 TS% in one of those finals series.

He had huge performances that kept the Warriors from losing. 34/5/5 with 3 blocks on 11-21 shooting in game 7. 43/13/7 on 15-23 shooting in a finals game when the rest of the Warriors were struggling.

[tpols]

i agree with all this

IF they win it this year without him.

I honestly hope he doesn't come back

All this team-hopping has distorted things. It would be nice to know if the Warriors are for real atg or not



before the mandated extension, the 73 win squad was up 3-1 by blowout margin of victory...

thats b2b rings with their core and 70 win average pace bro.

Then dumping houston on the road, picked it right back up, just like THAT.

****ing unbelievable how quick the dynasty chemistry came back. :rockon:

[Im so nba'd out]

His rings never had value....he joined a 73 win team.All him joining did was keep Steph from cracking the top 3 players all-time(which he would of did without durant by now)

[Young X]

The 73 win team LOST the championship and lost 9 games in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

The devaluing rings shit is stupid. It's not like he's a role player or something.

The guy averaged 35 on 70 TS% in one of those finals series.

He had huge performances that kept the Warriors from losing. 34/5/5 with 3 blocks on 11-21 shooting in game 7. 43/13/7 on 15-23 shooting in a finals game when the rest of the Warriors were struggling.

Yea, he's an all-time great player.

A player that happens to play on a team in which a slightly better player than Harrison Barnes could replace him and they'd be a near lock to win title after title during this run.

Nobody is disputing Durant is great...the question is how great imo...and I don't think you learn that joining a dynasty level team without you.

Honestly one of the first things 3ball has said that I pretty much agree with...prime Barkley joining the proven championship Bulls and putting up great numbers really isn't doing much of note.

Like, the funny thing is the people that act surprised...

Wow, you add one of the best players ever at his peak to a ready made dynasty level team without him and they win titles. Shocking!

But, this much about nothing, I really don't think they'd beat the Bucks without him. Maybe they'd have a chance if they can win in 4 or 5 this series, but I'm skeptical of that as well. It will be hard to sustain this level of play...this team is missing like 35 minutes a game of play and that doesn't even tell the story as the energy exerted by the rest of the team has had to go way up without KD.

[Young X]

Yea, he's an all-time great player.

A player that happens to play on a team in which a slightly better player than Harrison Barnes could replace him and they'd be a near lock to win title after title during this run.

Nobody is disputing Durant is great...the question is how great imo...and I don't think you learn that joining a dynasty level team without you.

Honestly one of the first things 3ball has said that I pretty much agree with...prime Barkley joining the proven championship Bulls and putting up great numbers really isn't doing much of note.The proven championship Bulls and the pre-KD Warriors are not on the same level. The Bulls didn't lose a finals series. Or lose 9 playoff games.

The Bulls actually didn't need Barkley. The Warriors are not winning shit last year without Durant.

The Warriors couldn't do anything with Lebron. Having Durant basically negated Lebron.

[DMAVS41]

The proven championship Bulls and the pre-KD Warriors are not on the same level. The Bulls didn't lose a finals series. Or lose 9 playoff games.

The Bulls actually didn't need Barkley. The Warriors are not winning shit last year without Durant.

The Warriors couldn't do anything with Lebron. Having Durant basically negated Lebron.

Nobody is arguing it is exactly the same thing, but it is similar. You are dramatically under-rating the Warriors. A peak all-time great player joined a team capable of winning a title without him. They have proven this.

I agree they weren't winning last year just without Durant, but again...I'm not sure why this needs to be explained...it was never Durant or nobody. It was Durant or another upgrade from Barnes or perhaps 2 quality players.

You really think the Warriors were just not using that cap space they had if they didn't get KD?

Regardless, that isn't the issue.

You need to take the blinders off. Without KD, this team won 67, a title, won 73, and came within a couple plays of a title, and have now gone 29-1 without KD since he joined the team when Steph plays. Without KD overall...they are something like 31-4.

Nobody thinks they are actually better without KD, but to not just admit this team is elite without him...and capable of wrecking teams...is absurd.

Again, does anyone know how many times a team has had a 29-1 stretch over 30 games? Seriously, I'd love to know how many teams in NBA history have ever even gone 29-1....

Shit, and they've done it without KD...

If you can't admit how absurd him joining this team was...I give up.

[Young X]

It was absurd, but please stop with this devaluing rings BS. KD still dominated the finals like few players have and won two Finals MVP's. It's not like he was out there getting carried.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There's always that one poster who goes against the grain.

:oldlol:

Its not even out of conviction either. More like for attention.

[34-24 Footwork]

It was absurd, but please stop with this devaluing rings BS. KD still dominated the finals like few players have and won two Finals MVP's. It's not like he was out there getting carried.

Funny thing is: if KD doesnt return and they get THRASHED by Giannis, the same people will just start to shit on Curry.

The game is to keep Curry de-legitimized thru the "lack" of finals MVPs, while making it seem like KD's entire championship run is illegitimate.

It's a way to devalue both players when it's all said and done.

[DMAVS41]

It was absurd, but please stop with this devaluing rings BS. KD still dominated the finals like few players have and won two Finals MVP's. It's not like he was out there getting carried.

We reach the point where we just have to agree to disagree.

It means nothing to me that a player as great as KD can go out there and play well when he's surrounded by arguably the best supporting cast of all time and not being forced into truly tough circumstances...really at any point.

What all-time great player could join up on a team as good as the Warriors and not do what you are saying?

Stop devaluing his rings? You want us to look at what KD has done and put it up there with how hard it was on other all-timers that led teams to titles. Of course his rings should be devalued. You could replace him with Robert Covington and the Warriors would still be a dynasty level team.

Doesn't mean KD is a worse player or something, but **** off if you think we should just pretend he didn't take the easiest path to titles possible.

The dude left an elite supporting cast in OKC...a team that would have beat the Warriors if KD just played decent in his biggest home game of his career.

He couldn't do it. He couldn't lead...then he quit and left to basically win easy titles.

Great player...no doubt...one of the best 25 or so ever imo, but these rings don't count nearly as much as many of the others...

And if you want to keep going on and on about what the Warriors would or wouldn't do without him and with another good player instead...I don't know what reality you live in. This team is at a 70 win pace without him on a pretty large sample size...and over a 70 win pace when their real best players plays and he doesn't.

Again, find me another team that could lose a guy as good as KD...and still keep a 70 win pace...including playoff games. I'll wait...

[Kblaze8855]

It was absurd, but please stop with this devaluing rings BS. KD still dominated the finals like few players have and won two Finals MVP's. It's not like he was out there getting carried.


You can play well and still be carried. If the team is all time great no matter if you play or not.....its clearly not you playing well that does it. The greatness is there. Youre just sitting on top of it. The Warriors are all time great no matter what. Durant just makes them near untouchable at times its clicking.

The Warriors have the cake. Hell they have the frosting too. Durant is the sprinkles. Makes it look better....but its not required.

Its like if you traded Nique to the Showtime Lakers for Worthy. With his attacking mentality and Magic wanting to find guys on the wing its entirely possible hed have led them in scoring the entire 80s. Nique on showtime could have hung 35 a game on most anyone and won several finals MVPS.

Wouldnt mean they really required it to win when we already know they won with Worthys 18.

The statistical specifics really matter?

They could lose with or without him. Anyone can lose. But him playing well and them winning doesnt mean him playing well is why. If he did less someone else just does more. Them already having a ring when he got there kinda suggests that....

[ripper9100]

He knows them rings hold no value, just look at his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5uapmZAhRc

[SpaceJam2]

He knows them rings hold no value, just look at his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5uapmZAhRc


Now that is sad

[Hey Yo]

I mean... they were already a dynasty without him and picked the pace right back up rn even whilst being as fat and satisfied as a team could ever be. A motivated dubs squad is a dynasty period.
How were they a dynasty by making 2 straight Finals and going 1-1?

Does that mean the Jazz were a dynasty for making it 2 straight times?

If they win w/o KD, that just shows they didnt need him in the first place. They begged him all season for nothing. Steph's legacy went straight in the shitter.

[DMAVS41]

How were they a dynasty by making 2 straight Finals and going 1-1?

Does that mean the Jazz were a dynasty for making it 2 straight times?

If they win w/o KD, that just shows they didnt need him in the first place. They begged him all season for nothing. Steph's legacy went straight in the shitter.

I'll try this again.

When you do;

67 wins, title, 73 wins, a couple ball bounces away from another title...then proceed to go 29-1 without said player...

What more evidence do you need?

And, no, it isn't just about the above...it is about the players they have. You guys have to stop acting like Klay/Iggy/Dray/Curry isn't an all-time great core 4. Please...just stop it.

They are good enough of a core to consistently contend for titles on their own even without much around them. Hence why they were able to set the all time wins record with Harrison Barnes.

It really is the dumbest thing ever at this point to be questioning the Warriors.

Again, of course Durant makes them better. Of course they have a bigger chance of losing without him. That doesn't change the fact that this team was going to contend for titles every year whether KD joined them or some other average forward did.

The fact that people can't accept this is pathetic.

[NBAGOAT]

I might be looking at it wrong. Instead of looking at how good the team is without him maybe we should just start viewing Durant as a 1B to curry's 1a. Its blasphemous as he's the one with 2 FMVP's and is their leading scorer but there have been a few other great teams who's leading scorer wasnt their best player(this one is less obvious however).

If we do that then durant's rings would be devalued definitely. We give a huge amount of credit to the best player on a title team usually but not enough to the rest of the team.

[Hey Yo]

I'll try this again.

When you do;

67 wins, title, 73 wins, a couple ball bounces away from another title...then proceed to go 29-1 without said player...

What more evidence do you need?

And, no, it isn't just about the above...it is about the players they have. You guys have to stop acting like Klay/Iggy/Dray/Curry isn't an all-time great core 4. Please...just stop it.

They are good enough of a core to consistently contend for titles on their own even without much around them. Hence why they were able to set the all time wins record with Harrison Barnes.

It really is the dumbest thing ever at this point to be questioning the Warriors.

Again, of course Durant makes them better. Of course they have a bigger chance of losing without him. That doesn't change the fact that this team was going to contend for titles every year whether KD joined them or some other average forward did.

The fact that people can't accept this is pathetic.
Not sure if you understood my post.

1. How is making 2 Finals in a row w/o KD make a team a dynasty like tpols suggested??

2. If they're winning w/o KD, then that means they didnt need him to begin with, correct??

[Doranku]

The 2017 and 2018 Cavs were 20th and 29th ranked defensively.

Stop bringing up KD's numbers against these atrocious defenses like they mean anything.

[DMAVS41]

Not sure if you understood my post.

1. How is making 2 Finals in a row w/o KD make a team a dynasty like tpols suggested??

2. If they're winning w/o KD, then that means they didnt need him to begin with, correct??

I think he said dynasty level team. Which is correct imo. Obviously they weren't a dynasty after just 2 years...nobody is arguing that.

But dynasty level? Meaning that they were going to win and contend for 5 plus years straight? Yea...that was a lock without KD.

Yea, of course they don't need KD. They did win without him and were always going to upgrade Harrison Barnes. They weren't just sitting on a ton of cap and not doing anything with it.

My guess is that if they added a couple of above average rotation players instead of KD...that they'd win 3 titles in 5 years....with KD healthy...I think they are about to win 4 titles in 5 years.

But, again, of course they don't "need" KD...are you actually arguing they do?

[BigShotBob]

They're not winning this year or last year without him.

As another poster said, the Warriors never had an answer for Lebron. KD negated him at worst and outplayed him 2-3 games in each series at best.

It's no coincidence that their only title win was when both Kyrie and Love were injured in 2015.

Though the Cavs won in 2016 against a hobbled Warrior's, the play of Curry and Klay in both game 6 and 7 shows their weaknesses when facing two dynamic scoring threats (Kyrie and Lebron).

In terms of pure scoring Curry and Klay are a tier below Kyrie and Lebron.

But Curry and KD combined are easily the best scoring tandem in the league, a notch or two above even Kyrie and Lebron at their best.

[DMAVS41]

Nobody knows what would have happened or what will happen.

I'd imagine a lot of people would laugh at the notion of the Warriors finishing off the Rockets in game 5 and 6 without KD...and then taking 2 in a row off the Blazers.

Certainly almost everyone would have laughed at the idea of the Warriors going 29-1 without KD and with Steph...and still maintaining a 70 win pace without KD on a pretty large sample size now.

A lot of things are possible...and nobody knows for sure of course.

All the evidence, however, at least for a rational person...would lead one to think that this Warriors core was pretty epic whether Durant was there or not.

[BigShotBob]

Nobody knows what would have happened or what will happen.

I'd imagine a lot of people would laugh at the notion of the Warriors finishing off the Rockets in game 5 and 6 without KD...and then taking 2 in a row off the Blazers.

Certainly almost everyone would have laughed at the idea of the Warriors going 29-1 without KD and with Steph...and still maintaining a 70 win pace without KD on a pretty large sample size now.

A lot of things are possible...and nobody knows for sure of course.

All the evidence, however, at least for a rational person...would lead one to think that this Warriors core was pretty epic whether Durant was there or not.

I will never understand what your point is.

They beat a subpar Rockets team and a (so far) subpar Blazers team.

I assure you they wouldn't be 2-0 without Durant against the Bucks, Raptors, or maybe even the 76ers. So who cares?

Durant isn't needed for the Blazers and to close out the Rockets....again who cares?

Steph wasn't needed for the Spurs or the Pelicans. But again, who cares?

We all know when Durant is needed, and why the Warriors went after him so aggressively after blowing a 3-1 lead, and that's because they have a very exploitable weakness against the juggernaut teams.

And the Rockets this year were not one of them.

Neither were the Blazers or even the Nuggets.

You can bring up "70-win pace" sample sizes all you want, because they won 73 games without Durant....and lost.

Then won 67 games the year after with him....and won.

Then won 58 games the year after that with him.....and won.

So again, who cares? Like what is your point exactly? Please put it in basketball terms, not "The Starters" terms.

[DMAVS41]

My point is simple. This is an elite team without KD. He's not needed. Yes, somebody in his place is likely needed, but he's not. But we don't even know that for sure...because the **** if we can ignore 29-1 without KD.

This shit is just obvious by now.

[BigShotBob]

My point is simple. This is an elite team without KD. He's not needed. Yes, somebody in his place is likely needed, but he's not. But we don't even know that for sure...because the **** if we can ignore 29-1 without KD.

This shit is just obvious by now.

Not needed....for what exactly?

The regular season? Okay....

But they absolutely needed him these past two Finals.

They aren't 29-1 in the Finals without him that's for sure. And that's all that matters and that's why they got him.

You don't know better than the players do. They all admitted that they needed him, but the "great" analytical DownsyndromeMavs over here knows more than KD's teammates I guess.

[DMAVS41]

Not needed....for what exactly?

The regular season? Okay....

But they absolutely needed him these past two Finals.

They aren't 29-1 in the Finals without him that's for sure. And that's all that matters and that's why they got him.

You don't know better than the players do. They all admitted that they needed him, but the "great" analytical DownsyndromeMavs over here knows more than KD's teammates I guess.

You aren't following. I'm not even disputing that they likely don't win last year without KD.

I'm saying that other players in place of KD would also have made them overwhelming title favorites. You keep confusing things. There never even was an option of nobody. It was either KD or someone else. They weren't just letting all the cap go mate.

I'd like to add though...we need to stop pretending like this team as currently constructed straight up without KD isn't a legit title contender. They've proven too much.

Yea, lets just ignore 29-1 and pretend like it is common. We should ignore the title and 73 wins without him as well...right?

[BigShotBob]

You aren't following. I'm not even disputing that they likely don't win last year without KD.

I'm saying that other players in place of KD would also have made them overwhelming title favorites. You keep confusing things. There never even was an option of nobody. It was either KD or someone else. They weren't just letting all the cap go mate.

I'd like to add though...we need to stop pretending like this team as currently constructed straight up without KD isn't a legit title contender. They've proven too much.

Yea, lets just ignore 29-1 and pretend like it is common. We should ignore the title and 73 wins without him as well...right?

No other player besides KD in the league could outplay Lebron in two straight Finals series.

Now I'm not saying that the Warriors specifically got KD for Lebron, but because they happened to face him and his super team they needed a player at Lebron's level.

There was no other player or players at or around Lebron's level in free agency except for Kevin Durant.

And obviously you go after the best player that you can.

I'm saying that "somebody else" these past two Finals wouldn't cut it. Not against Kyrie, Lebron, and Love.

They didn't win the title when they won 73 games. Why bring that up?

They literally won less games with KD but had their best playoff run afterwards.

Again...not 29-1 in the Finals without Durant.

[DMAVS41]

No other player besides KD in the league could outplay Lebron in two straight Finals series.

Now I'm not saying that the Warriors specifically got KD for Lebron, but because they happened to face him and his super team they needed a player at Lebron's level.

There was no other player or players at or around Lebron's level in free agency except for Kevin Durant.

And obviously you go after the best player that you can.

I'm saying that "somebody else" these past two Finals wouldn't cut it. Not against Kyrie, Lebron, and Love.

They didn't win the title when they won 73 games. Why bring that up?

They literally won less games with KD but had their best playoff run afterwards.

Again...not 29-1 in the Finals without Durant.

I disagree.

The Rockets were a much tougher test and I might agree that they needed KD to get by them last year, but again...I can't say for sure.

I think it would obviously been a lot tougher with other players in place of KD, but they'd still be as good or better than anyone depending on the replacement or replacements.

Not sure what you mean about "not 29-1 inf the Finals"....nobody has ever made the claim. That is brought up to illustrate just how good this team is...even without KD.

You aren't impressed, but that means nothing. Again, what other team do you think could lose their "best player" and go 29-1???? Please name a few so I know where you are coming from.

[BigShotBob]

I disagree.

The Rockets were a much tougher test and I might agree that they needed KD to get by them last year, but again...I can't say for sure.

I think it would obviously been a lot tougher with other players in place of KD, but they'd still be as good or better than anyone depending on the replacement or replacements.

Not sure what you mean about "not 29-1 inf the Finals"....nobody has ever made the claim. That is brought up to illustrate just how good this team is...even without KD.

You aren't impressed, but that means nothing. Again, what other team do you think could lose their "best player" and go 29-1???? Please name a few so I know where you are coming from.

I thought PG13 in place of KD on the Thunder would have made them a lot better than they currently are. But they bounced out of the first round twice now so again, who knows. But that's the only other SF that comes even close to KD and Lebron's level and he's still a tier below them both.

Such an arbitrary stat.

You're emphasizing the regular season and sprinkling in what....3 playoff game wins without Durant?

Meanwhile Durant won an entire series without Curry and were on their way to beating the Pelicans without him too.

I'm not going through the annals of history for a dumb statistic like that because then I'd be arguing on your terms when I literally don't care.

Again, they wouldn't have beat the Cavs's super team without Durant because anything can happen - like a suspension or injuries.

Then you have to shut down Kyrie and Lebron and if Curry and Klay go cold for even a second then their offense falls off a cliff and there's no one to stop the bleeding.

Oh sorry, I'm talking basketball with you again. That might be a little too much for you.

[DMAVS41]

You are coming off like a clown that can't follow an argument.

Can you really not comprehend that I'm not arguing that other players could make them as good as KD, but good enough to win the title?

The fact that you keep referencing the Cavs and the finals shows you don't know anything. The Rockets were, by far, the most dangerous team for these Warriors last year and it wasn't ****ing close.

Again, name me some teams that can lose their best player and win at a near 70 win pace on what amounts to nearly a half a season sample. It isn't arbitrary at all...it is the opposite actually...it is winning and losing.

Lastly, do you even watch these games? Do you not see how much the impact of Curry/Dray goes up without KD? You are legit forgetting or are too stupid to realize that everyone sacrifices when you add a player like KD to an already loaded roster.

Curry and Dray specifically can't play at their optimal levels with KD out there consistently.

This shit is obvious to anyone that knows the game at all.

You "talking basketball" is legit repeating moronic ESPN "hot takes" about Kyrie...

[BigShotBob]

You are coming off like a clown that can't follow an argument.

Can you really not comprehend that I'm not arguing that other players could make them as good as KD, but good enough to win the title?

The fact that you keep referencing the Cavs and the finals shows you don't know anything. The Rockets were, by far, the most dangerous team for these Warriors last year and it wasn't ****ing close.

Again, name me some teams that can lose their best player and win at a near 70 win pace on what amounts to nearly a half a season sample. It isn't arbitrary at all...it is the opposite actually...it is winning and losing.

Lastly, do you even watch these games? Do you not see how much the impact of Curry/Dray goes up without KD? You are legit forgetting or are too stupid to realize that everyone sacrifices when you add a player like KD to an already loaded roster.

Curry and Dray specifically can't play at their optimal levels with KD out there consistently.

This shit is obvious to anyone that knows the game at all.

Please name the players not named Lebron. I can only think of three total maybe. And KD and Lebron are the other two.

I brought up the Cavs because they had a big three. But yes they definitely don't get past the Rockets without KD, but CP3 probably doesn't even join the Rockets if KD doesn't join the Warriors, so the Rockets were a monster of their own making.

It's arbitrary because of when it occurs.

The Warriors especially as they are currently constructed have a hard ceiling without Durant because they become far more exploitable against the juggernaut teams (Rockets, Cavs, Bucks, Raptors) could and will beat them without Durant. Point blank period.

Name the players that you could switch with Durant and tell me if the Warriors beat the Rockets last year with that player in their stead.

[DMAVS41]

Please name the players not named Lebron. I can only think of three total maybe. And KD and Lebron are the other two.

I brought up the Cavs because they had a big three. But yes they definitely don't get past the Rockets without KD, but CP3 probably doesn't even join the Rockets if KD doesn't join the Warriors, so the Rockets were a monster of their own making.

It's arbitrary because of when it occurs.

The Warriors especially as they are currently constructed have a hard ceiling without Durant because they become far more exploitable against the juggernaut teams (Rockets, Cavs, Bucks, Raptors) could and will beat them without Durant. Point blank period.

Name the players that you could switch with Durant and tell me if the Warriors beat the Rockets last year with that player in their stead.

Uhhhh....

I'm not arguing the Warriors could for sure beat the Rockets without KD. Again, try reading. I literally already stated that they might have needed KD to get by the Rockets last year. I posted this in response to you.

I don't think you are capable of following a conversation. Hence why you continue to be "confused" as to what my point is.

If you want to know what type of guys I think would really be good for them...it would be guys like Cov / Porter / Tucker / Ingles / Middleton / Crowder / Saric...even guys like Gay / Batum.

No, it is not arbitrary to go 29-1 without your "best player"...you can keep repeating that, but anyone with a brain knows that is insane.

And we know it matters to you...because if the Warriors lose some games...you'll say "oh, see...this proves they need KD"...

[34-24 Footwork]

DMAVS41 going FULL troll :lol

Cant believe this dude is being THIS disingenuous.

This ain't the 73 win team.

They have no bench. No depth. Turnover prone. And they are completely predictable.

A "team" isn't Iggy, Klay, Dray, and Curry.

Imagine hating KD that much. Lol

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS41 going FULL troll :lol

Cant believe this dude is being THIS disingenuous.

This ain't the 73 win team.

They have no bench. No depth. Turnover prone. And they are completely predictable.

A "team" isn't Iggy, Klay, Dray, and Curry.

Imagine hating KD that much. Lol

Another reading comprehension fail.

I've never argued as such. In fact, I've actually said the Warriors without KD are vulnerable even against the Blazers and would be clear dogs against the Bucks.

What I've said was...a player or players in place of KD and they are better than everyone...just not to the extent they are with KD.

This isn't hard guys...get smarter please.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another reading comprehension fail.

I've never argued as such. In fact, I've actually said the Warriors without KD are vulnerable even against the Blazers and would be clear dogs against the Bucks.

What I've said was...a player or players in place of KD and they are better than everyone...just not to the extent they are with KD.

This isn't hard guys...get smarter please.

They're too invested w/ Lebron

But it really has nothing to do with him.

I don't want to intervene here, but I understand your POV.

The Warriors likely need Durant against Lebron. And likely vs Houston last year. Its not a certainty (Cavs were swept in 2017 and 2018) but we'll just say "likely".

Without Durant, they'd be underdogs against the Rockets this year and last year. And now they are underdogs vs Milwaukee if both get there.

Durant is amazing. And cooked Lebron these past 2 finals. That still doesn't change the fact...GSW is an ATG team without him. You add a few above average swingmen, to replace Durant, borderline all stars for name sake, and they would still be incredible.

73 wins without Durant and 1 suspension away from a title.
2015 Title and ATG team
GOAT shooting backcourt
Arguably the best, most versatile defender in the game

They are amazing to watch.

[34-24 Footwork]

They're too invested w/ Lebron

But it really has nothing to do with him.

I don't want to intervene here, but I understand your POV.

The Warriors likely need Durant against Lebron. And likely vs Houston last year. Its not a certainty (Cavs were swept in 2017 and 2018) but we'll just say "likely".

Without Durant, they'd be underdogs against the Rockets this year and last year. And now they are underdogs vs Milwaukee if both get there.

Durant is amazing. And cooked Lebron these past 2 finals. That still doesn't change the fact...GSW is an ATG team without him. You add a few above average swingmen, to replace Durant, borderline all stars for name sake, and they would still be incredible.

73 wins without Durant and 1 suspension away from a title.
2015 Title and ATG team
GOAT shooting backcourt
Arguably the best, most versatile defender in the game

They are amazing to watch.

They lost in 2016. They dont play with win a bunch of regular season games and lose.

73 wins, a banged up Curry, Iggy, and Bogut and an L.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They lost in 2016. They dont play with win a bunch of regular season games and lose.

73 wins, a banged up Curry, Iggy, and Bogut and an L.

That's beside the point, but keep on bullshitting.

All Durant did was GUARANTEE the Warriors a chip in 2017 and 2018.

:oldlol:

[34-24 Footwork]

That's beside the point, but keep on bullshitting.

All Durant did was GUARANTEE the Warriors a chip in 2017 and 2018.

:oldlol:

WTF is wrong with you lately?? :lol :lol

[BigShotBob]

Uhhhh....

I'm not arguing the Warriors could for sure beat the Rockets without KD. Again, try reading. I literally already stated that they might have needed KD to get by the Rockets last year. I posted this in response to you.

I don't think you are capable of following a conversation. Hence why you continue to be "confused" as to what my point is.

If you want to know what type of guys I think would really be good for them...it would be guys like Cov / Porter / Tucker / Ingles / Middleton / Crowder / Saric...even guys like Gay / Batum.

No, it is not arbitrary to go 29-1 without your "best player"...you can keep repeating that, but anyone with a brain knows that is insane.

And we know it matters to you...because if the Warriors lose some games...you'll say "oh, see...this proves they need KD"...

They are not winning a championship with any of those in place of Durant.

Wow.

It depends on who they lose to, not if they lose period.

If they lose tonight I wouldn't bat an eye. If they lost both games at Portland I still wouldn't bat an eye because it's just the Blazers protecting home court.

But they aren't winning the Finals without Durant, which you already agreed to anyways.

[DMAVS41]

That's beside the point, but keep on bullshitting.

All Durant did was GUARANTEE the Warriors a chip in 2017 and 2018.

:oldlol:

Exactly.

One can disagree, but at least get the argument right.

I agree a healthy Durant pretty much guarantees a title. My contention is that you put PJ Tucker and Ariza or something on this Warriors team...and it is close to a guarantee as well, but not to the certainty with KD.

Hence, they don't "need" KD...they only "need" him to pretty much assure a title.

Which is why Durant joining them always has been a joke to anyone that understands how good Durant is and how great this Warriors core already was.

But nope, we have to have morons that want to claim 29-1, a title, and 73 wins with that core without KD...is "arbitrary"

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

WTF is wrong with you lately?? :lol :lol

What's that? Speaking with objectivity?

Try it sometime, bud. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

They are not winning a championship with any of those in place of Durant.

Wow.

It depends on who they lose to, not if they lose period.

If they lose tonight I wouldn't bat an eye. If they lost both games at Portland I still wouldn't bat an eye because it's just the Blazers protecting home court.

But they aren't winning the Finals without Durant, which you already agreed to anyways.

Yea, and like I've said...I disagree.

I watched them win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes. I'll take my chances upgrading Barnes and or adding depth.

What I can agree on is that they wouldn't be as good as they are with KD. I can't start making claims of certainty about how they wouldn't win without KD...

If you really believe they'd be drawing dead to win the title with improvements over Harrison Barnes...I don't think you have a brain.

[34-24 Footwork]

What's that? Speaking with objectivity?

Try it sometime, bud. :oldlol:

You're a funny dude, bro. I'll give you that. Not sure about your "objectivity", though.

By the way, guaranteeing the Warriors a ring is a stretch. Like I said before, Curry's impact>>>KD's just by his mere presence on the court.

But yes...they need KD more than ever in the finals.

[DMAVS41]

And, you guys want to talk basketball?

Are you not impressed with what Dray is doing out there with an increased role?

Now imagine the Warriors have real depth with some better rotation guys.

Sorry, they would not be drawing dead to win. Nothing objective supports that.

[34-24 Footwork]

And, you guys want to talk basketball?

Are you not impressed with what Dray is doing out there with an increased role?

Now imagine the Warriors have real depth with some better rotation guys.

Sorry, they would not be drawing dead to win. Nothing objective supports that.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Dray doing Dray things. Bringing energy, pushing the ball in transition to create matchup exploits, active hands, communication :applause:

But what the fvck does this have to do with kd??

[DMAVS41]

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Dray doing Dray things. Bringing energy, pushing the ball in transition to create matchup exploits, active hands, communication :applause:

But what the fvck does this have to do with kd??


Because he makes a bigger impact without KD. Do you really not see that? He can play at closer to his optimal level.

How are you missing the whole point? You guys are judging this Warriors team based on the last couple years in which Klay/Dray/Curry all sacrificed aspects of their game to win and accommodate KD.

Yet, they are capable of more...which is indicated by everything they've done and how they've played without KD. That is why 29-1 isn't arbitrary...that is why KD isn't needed...he was always a luxury.

[34-24 Footwork]

[/B]

Because he makes a bigger impact without KD. Do you really not see that? He can play at closer to his optimal level.

How are you missing the whole point? You guys are judging this Warriors team based on the last couple years in which Klay/Dray/Curry all sacrificed aspects of their game to win and accommodate KD.

Yet, they are capable of more...which is indicated by everything they've done and how they've played without KD. That is why 29-1 isn't arbitrary...that is why KD isn't needed...he was always a luxury.

Here's the deal. Below are series that they needed/needed KD to win:

Rockets 2018.
Cavs 2017
Bucks/Raptors this year.

Sub KD with anyone else and they lose.

Are they more entertaining without KD? yes

[DMAVS41]

Here's the deal. Below are series that they needed/needed KD to win:

Rockets 2018.
Cavs 2017
Bucks/Raptors this year.

Sub KD with anyone else and they lose.

Are they more entertaining without KD? yes

I can't sign off on any of that with anything close to certainty. I tend to agree with you about the Rockets, but again...we are all so shaded by how they look with KD...sometimes it is hard to imagine what they'd look like without him.

Like I've said before...this core has done too much and proven too much to claim they are drawing dead in the series you are talking about.

Because the 16 Thunder were as good or better than most of those teams...they didn't have KD...the other team did...and they still won. But it seems like you have forgotten that and a whole lot more. Seems like you aren't paying much attention...