Why does team ORtg change more when Durant/Kobe leave the floor or return than Curry?

[3ball]

Playoffs


09' Lakers ORtg .with.'' Kobe - 112.0
09' Lakers ORtg w/out Kobe -.. 94.0
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 18.0 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1) <----- link to NBA.com source



18' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Durant - 114.4
18' Warrior ORtg w/out Durant - 96.8
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 17.6 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs)



16' Cavalier ORtg .with.'' lebron - 115.9
16' Cavalier ORtg w/out lebron - 98.4
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 17.5 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612739/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1)



18' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Curry - 113.5
18' Warrior ORtg w/out Curry - 107.3.
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 6.2 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs)



19' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Curry - 119.0
19' Warrior ORtg w/out Curry - 102.7
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 16.3 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1)



How does this not prove that Kobe had the biggest offensive impact?
.

[warriorfan]

Ortg and Drtg are garbage stats

Op has turned into a lebron stan, next he will be in here citing VORP and BPM

You

[Kblaze8855]

I

[And1AllDay]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]

There aren

[3ball]

Ortg and Drtg are garbage stats

Op has turned into a lebron stan, next he will be in here citing VORP and BPM

You’ve fallen off bruh
Nah, Lebron's numbers in his winning playoffs is worse than Kobe's and Durant's

Only 17.5 in 2016 playoffs (kyrie at 19.4) and 13.8 in 2013
.

[RRR3]

Curry>MJ.



3ball is so shook

[warriorfan]

Nah, Lebron's numbers in his winning playoffs is worse than Kobe's and Durant's

Only 15.8 in 2016 playoffs and 13.8 in 2013

What about lebrons career vorp?

[3ball]

What about lebrons career vorp?
Attached to games played.. means nothing, like win shares

Btw, added lebron to the OP - 17.5 in the 16' playoffs, but Kyrie had a bigger impact with 19.4

[warriorfan]

Attached to games played.. means nothing, like win shares

Btw, added lebron to the OP - 17.5 in the 16' playoffs, but Kyrie had a bigger impact with 19.4

Lebron ties Jordan for highest vorp during a championship season....and completely dwarfs mj in career vorp....I had Jordan over LeBron but after this arbitrary advanced stat discovery it leads me to think otherwise.

[NBASTATMAN]

Attached to games played.. means nothing, like win shares

Btw, added lebron to the OP - 17.5 in the 16' playoffs, but Kyrie had a bigger impact with 19.4


SO FISHER had a bigger impact than KOBE.. IN THE NBAFINALS


THREAD IS OVER :roll:

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&LastNGames=5

[Vino24]

Lebron ties Jordan for highest vorp during a championship season....and completely dwarfs mj in career vorp....I had Jordan over LeBron but after this arbitrary advanced stat discovery it leads me to think otherwise.
welcome to the Bron fam :cheers: :rockon: :pimp:

[warriorfan]

SO FISHER had a bigger impact than KOBE..


THREAD IS OVER :roll:

3ball is turning into wheels before our eyes

Epic ass downfall

[3ball]

Lebron ties Jordan for highest vorp during a championship season....and completely dwarfs mj in career vorp....I had Jordan over LeBron but after this arbitrary advanced stat discovery it leads me to think otherwise.
It's okay brah, Curry beats lebron in championships because he knows a better way to play basketball than lebron (ball movement, efficient offense, clutch)

So it doesn't matter that lebron can match Curry in this one area (impact on team ortg) - because lebron-ball has a much lower ceiling than curry-ball and can't win

it's apples and oranges tbh - this stat should only be used to compare winning brands of ball like Kobe/curry/durant, otherwise a bad brand/ball-domination can inflate the stat like it does for lebron

[warriorfan]

It's okay brah, Curry beats lebron in championships because he knows a better way to play basketball than lebron (ball movement, efficient offense, clutch)

So it doesn't matter that lebron can match Curry in this one area (impact on team ortg) - because lebron-ball has a much lower ceiling than curry-ball and can't win

it's apples and oranges tbh - this stat should only be used to compare winning brands of ball like Kobe/curry/durant, otherwise a bad brand/ball-domination can inflate the stat like it does for lebron

LeBron’s vorp smashes Jordan. Thanks for showing me the ins and outs of all the obscure stats of basketball reference. I wouldn’t have come to the realization that LeBron > Jordan otherwise. :applause:

[NBASTATMAN]

KOBE WAS THE WORSE PLAYER IN THE 2010 NBA FINALS.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&LastNGames=7

THANKS FOR THE NEW THREAD.. KOBE 'S NET RATING WAS HORRIBLE -17.2

:wtf: :banana: :hammertime: :party:

[Vino24]

It's okay brah, Curry beats lebron in championships because he knows a better way to play basketball than lebron (ball movement, efficient offense, clutch)

So it doesn't matter that lebron can match Curry in this one area (impact on team ortg) - because lebron-ball has a much lower ceiling than curry-ball and can't win

it's apples and oranges tbh - this stat should only be used to compare winning brands of ball like Kobe/curry/durant, otherwise a bad brand/ball-domination can inflate the stat like it does for lebron
so not only do you cherry pick stats. you also cherry pick the time to use them :roll: :roll:

[Big164]

SO FISHER had a bigger impact than KOBE.. IN THE NBAFINALS


THREAD IS OVER :roll:

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&LastNGames=5
Bodied!:roll: :roll:

[StrongLurk]

3ball on a Curry meltdown binger...seriously wtf is 3balls problem? Someone needs to take away this autistic ass retards access to the internet.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]LeBron

[StrongLurk]

In addition to Curry having a weaker offensive impact, as shown in the OP...

he's bad at contested jumpshots from three and midrange - his poor contested efficiency (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13719435&postcount=32) means he isn't an all-time jumpshooter

and 80% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13681661&postcount=41) of his threes are open (system player), more than Dame or Harden

Sorry MJ wasn't an elite 3 point shooter :cry:

[warriorfan]

In addition to Curry having a weaker offensive impact, as shown in the OP...

he's bad at contested jumpshots from three and midrange - his poor contested efficiency (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13719435&postcount=32) means he isn't an all-time jumpshooter

and 80% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13681661&postcount=41) of his threes are open (system player), more than Dame or Harden

Thanks for showing me the advanced stat section of basketball reference. LeBrons career VORP blows Jordan out of the water. Was always a big Jordan guy but I hate to admit it but LeBron is probably better.

[3ball]

SO FISHER had a bigger impact than KOBE.. IN THE NBAFINALS


THREAD IS OVER :roll:

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&LastNGames=5
My stats are for the whole playoffs and yours are for the last 5 games only

Kobe leads the Lakers by a mile for the whole playoffs (18.0 to Odom's 11.6)

[Vino24]

LeBron has more playoff points than MJ

[StrongLurk]

My stats are for the whole playoffs and yours are for the last 5 games only

Kobe leads the Lakers by a mile for the whole playoffs (18.0 to Odom's 11.6)

OP: Cherry picks
OP when someone else does the same: :mad:

[NBASTATMAN]

My stats are for the whole playoffs and yours are for the last 5 games only

Kobe leads the Lakers by a mile for the whole playoffs (18.0 to Odom's 11.6)


So he played great vs the shitty WEST TEAMS.. They play a soft brand of bball..

KOBE SHOULD NOT HAVE WON THE 2010 NBA FINALS.. He was horrid.. THANK YOU.. SO much more ammo :applause:

[3ball]

OP: Cherry picks
OP when someone else does the same: :mad:
Using an entire playoff run isn't cherry-picking..

Not that it matters - Kobe's impact > Curry's.. that's all that matters

[StrongLurk]

Using an entire playoff run isn't cherry-picking..

Not that it matters - Kobe's impact > Curry's.. that's all that matters

It is when these players have MANY playoff runs. Face it, you're a cherry picking, autistic loser.

[Vino24]

Using an entire playoff run isn't cherry-picking..

Not that it matters - Kobe's impact > Curry's.. that's all that matters
How about LeBron's impact. Leading everyone in playoff points :eek:

[Big164]

He

[3ball]

Sorry MJ wasn't an elite 3 point shooter :cry:

MJ was good at threes:



1) When it mattered - 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals.. 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs

When he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 every year except 90' and 93' when he attempted 3+ and shot 38% and 35%


That's without practicing or thinking he needed it to win.. :eek:

In today's game, his 3-point shot would be as elite as his fadeaway became - he'd be all-time from 3 just like midrange

[NBASTATMAN]

[QUOTE=Big164]He

[warriorfan]

How about LeBron's impact. Leading everyone in playoff points :eek:

VORP. Value Over Replacement. LeBron and MJ had an equal peak during a championship season at 9.8, but LeBron

[bigkingsfan]

Compare how they were guarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r8h7yyGbz4
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03GT8q3BCZY

Yikes

[3ball]

How about LeBron's impact. Leading everyone in playoff points :eek:
All those points and how many rings??

So he's doing something wrong

Like a boxer that leads everyone in punches thrown but doesn't connect enough, or a guy that has sex a lot but rarely pleases

Ultimately, his ball-dominance prevented his team from playing a brand that can win frequently.. yeah, I know.. f'kin loser, 3/9 bum

[3ball]

Compare how they were guarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r8h7yyGbz4
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03GT8q3BCZY

Yikes
Today's spacing strategy gives everyone open looks

80% of curry's threes are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender), or "wide open" (6+ feet) - you can't get any easier than that... :oldlol:

[bigkingsfan]

Today's game gives everyone open looks

80% of curry's threes are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender), or "wide open" (6+ feet) - you can't get any easier than that... :oldlol:
100% of Ordan 3's were wide open :oldlol:

[Vino24]

Today's spacing strategy gives everyone open looks

80% of curry's threes are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender), or "wide open" (6+ feet) - you can't get any easier than that... :oldlol:
how about packing the paint with defenders while having a shortened 3pt line?

[3ball]

how about packing the paint with defenders


Makes it much harder to score in the paint





while having a shortened 3pt line?


Reduced spacing more than it already was

Notice that league ORtg cratered the year they shortened that line

themoreyouknow.gif

[3ball]

100% of Ordan 3's were wide open :oldlol:
89% of the league's are

So MJ would be right in line

But obviously they'd guard him like everyone else - after his first record-breaking half and famous :confusedshrug: .. that's a wrap - he'd be the new Curry, but a 6'6" goat athlete/assassin version

[warriorfan]

Damn 3ball is getting straight bullied in here

Thread backfire

[bigkingsfan]

89% of the league's are

So MJ would be right in line

But obviously they'd guard him like everyone else - after his first record-breaking half and famous :confusedshrug: .. that's a wrap - he'd be the new Curry, but a 6'6" goat athlete/assassin version
100% wide open, stationary, shooting 33%.

[3ball]

Damn 3ball is getting straight bullied in here

Thread backfire
You better hope bledsoe doesn't get in his ass

Otherwise, it's 2016 all over again when kyrie curb-stomped the yella fella

[red1]

3ball it doesn't matter how many michael jordan spacejam boxers you have and it doesn't matter that you still wear michael jordan bulls underwear - you're still trash at ball.

[warriorfan]

You better hope bledsoe doesn't get in his ass

Otherwise, it's 2016 all over again when kyrie curb-stomped the yella fella

Go back to basketball reference before I stuff your dweeby ass in a garbage can

[Big164]

I like Jordan, but those uncontested 3

[Vino24]

Go back to basketball reference before I stuff your dweeby ass in a garbage can
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[greymatter]

Playoffs


09' Lakers ORtg .with.'' Kobe - 112.0
09' Lakers ORtg w/out Kobe -.. 94.0
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 18.0 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1) <----- link to NBA.com source



18' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Durant - 114.4
18' Warrior ORtg w/out Durant - 96.8
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 17.6 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs)



16' Cavalier ORtg .with.'' lebron - 115.9
16' Cavalier ORtg w/out lebron - 98.4
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 17.5 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612739/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1)



18' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Curry - 113.5
18' Warrior ORtg w/out Curry - 107.3.
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 6.2 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs)



19' Warrior ORtg .with.'' Curry - 119.0
19' Warrior ORtg w/out Curry - 102.7
__________________________________
.................................Difference - 16.3 (https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1)



How does this not prove that Kobe had the biggest offensive impact?
.

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.

Also, GS is 31-1 in games with Curry but no KD.

Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.

[3ball]

I like Jordan, but those uncontested 3’s he was taking vs portland would be a lay-up line for steph curry.

I *wish* theyd leave lil steph that open! Ha


Maybe you didn't read the numbers - 53% of Curry's threes are taken with 6+ feet of room, which the NBA defines as "wide open"

53%........ of his threes......... are wide......... the ****.... open

Overall, 80% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13681661&postcount=41) are open or wide open (system player), more than Dame or Harden

The best contested jumpshooting game of all time was MJ's 54 points on all jumpers in Game 4 of 1993 ECF

[Vino24]

Mods can you sticky this and forever make an example out of 3ball thx.

[3ball]

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.


I posted the playoff stats - ur referring to regular season





Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.
What All-NBA or all-star PF did MJ have in 1989 when he made the conference finals? And what were Pippen's numbers?

MJ's 85-89' bulls had ZERO accolades - that means no 2-time all-star Jamison, no 2-time-all-star Zydrunas, no all-star Mo Williams, no all-defenders Hughes and Varejao, or 09' all-star MVP Shaq playing 4th option in 10'..

MJ's 85-89' casts were worse than anything lebron ever had, yet his 89' team made the conference finals as a 6 seed and were the only team to win 2 games off the Bad Boys

[NBASTATMAN]

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.

Also, GS is 31-1 in games with Curry but no KD.

Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.


:roll: :lol

[And1AllDay]

SO FISHER had a bigger impact than KOBE.. IN THE NBAFINALS


THREAD IS OVER :roll:

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/onoffcourt-summary/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DIFF_OFF_RATING&dir=1&LastNGames=5


shut. it. down.

[And1AllDay]

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.

Also, GS is 31-1 in games with Curry but no KD.

Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.

Shit

:roll: :roll:

[And1AllDay]

3ball it doesn't matter how many michael jordan spacejam boxers you have and it doesn't matter that you still wear michael jordan bulls underwear - you're still trash at ball.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

3ball is getting bullied in his own thread this is amazing

[sdot_thadon]

3bagged.

[SpaceJam2]

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.

Also, GS is 31-1 in games with Curry but no KD.

Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.

Good god what a decimation.

Don't forget to highlight MJ's "tough" competition too:

This was his toughest line of defense


https://i.postimg.cc/W30w2bkW/a3d65e33e8ee04301e241e0d2cd665c2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d3vmDPRq/ddace9d4be204c87f61848cf881c430e-jazz-players-nba-players.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cHd6KwL/hqdefault.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[3ball]

Curry only played 51 games last year while KD played 68.

Since you're no doubt too stupid to understand what that means, I'll spell it out for you. Steph being out of action means that once KD is off the floor, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond are your offense. KD played 34.2 mpg to Steph's 32.0 mpg. Steph going to the bench means you still had KD on the floor because Kerr likes to have one or the other on the floor as much as possible except for blowouts.


I posted the playoff stats - ur referring to regular season

Are you that slow or did you not even see the heading that said "playoffs"

Team ORtg changes more when Kobe/Durant leave the floor or return than it does with Curry, so they have more impact than Curry, period..

the numbers are what they are





Must suck worshipping a loser who could never make it beyond the 2nd round without both Pippen + an all NBA defender at PF and who ended up being only worth +2W over Pete Myers.


What All-NBA or all-star PF did MJ have in 1989 when he made the conference finals? And what were Pippen's numbers?

MJ's 85-89' bulls had ZERO accolades - that means no 2-time all-star Jamison, no 2-time-all-star Zydrunas, no all-star Mo Williams, no all-defenders Hughes and Varejao, or 09' all-star MVP Shaq playing 4th option in 10'..

MJ's 85-89' casts were worse than anything lebron ever had, yet his 89' team made the conference finals as a 6 seed and were the only team to win 2 games off the Bad Boys

[3ball]

FYI - curry mostly leads the Warriors in regular season differential

But it's the playoffs where he dips..

only a 3 point differential in 15' and 16' Playoffs, when Draymond led the team both years

So Curry's differentials from 15-19' playoffs are: 3, 3, 30, 6, 16.... Mostly low and not leading team in playoffs, compared to him leading the regular seasons
.