Stockton and Malone - The Original Trash Bro's

[Gus Hemmingway]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[eliteballer]

Didn't have a cakewalk to the Finals like LeROID..

[SouBeachTalents]

So literally every single playoff loss was a choke huh :lol

[talkingconch]

Did you begin watching the NBA in 2012?

[3ball]

The only guys skilled enough with enough chemistry to use pnr as their primary offense WITHOUT using today's kickout schemes for threes that make the play worthwhile

They had goat skill and chemistry, so they could succeed with the pnr without threes

[NBAGOAT]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.

[The Iron Fist]

Still doesnt take away from lebron being 3-6 in the finals and not being able to make the playoffs in the west.:cheers:

[Im so nba'd out]

Stockton would be dellavedova @ best in this era and deep down every jordanaire knows it

[RealSkipBayless]

Didn't have a cakewalk to the Finals like LeROID..
:lol


:djparty
:party: :hammertime:

[Gus Hemmingway]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.
yup, Stockton is massively overrated

[Gus Hemmingway]

Stockton would be dellavedova in this era
possibly worse

[scuzzy]

In all seriousness, with Lebron out the East now


If Lowry and Derozan stayed together for 18 seasons their track record would probably look identical, possibly better. Would have already made a couple finals if not for Lebron

[red1]

great thread OP.



agreed 110%.

[tpols]

this was jordan's best competition? :biggums:

[red1]

this was jordan's best competition? :biggums:
it's no 2008 or 2010 celtics :oldlol:

[Vino24]

it's no 2008 or 2010 celtics :oldlol:
Jordan would have shit the bed against KG :oldlol:

[Gus Hemmingway]

Jordan would have shit the bed against KG :oldlol:
Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol



Nope, this was his toughest line of defense


https://i.postimg.cc/W30w2bkW/a3d65e33e8ee04301e241e0d2cd665c2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d3vmDPRq/ddace9d4be204c87f61848cf881c430e-jazz-players-nba-players.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cHd6KwL/hqdefault.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



:oldlol:

[Bawkish]

Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol



Nope, this was his toughest line of defense






https://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/peeler1.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EcstaticFilthyBittern-size_restricted.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShadyAltruisticKusimanse-size_restricted.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/12u88ojoXfWpGM/giphy.gif

these were big men guarding the paint during MJ's era

[Gus Hemmingway]

^^ none of those traffic cones would even be starters in today's positionless game


they'd be sucking wind trying to run up n down the court and completely winded closing out athletic 6'9 shooters

[Xiao Yao You]

Stockton would be dellavedova @ best in this era and deep down every jordanaire knows it

Would have been great in any era on any team. His only weakness was being too unselfish

[LAmbruh]

and to think this was MJ's hardest competition

[And1AllDay]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



The Original Trash Bros™ aka The OG Western Conf Treadmill Duo™



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/23/3c/43233c90c0f78bcfaaba86e471215ece.jpg


:oldlol: :roll: :roll:

Facts hurt Jordan fans deeply watch them all meltdown


5* thread

Wood read agian brody :cheers:

[bullettooth]

Another retarded LeBron fanboy threat trying to undermine MJ only to prop up LeBron.

****ing christ, the rage in these incels.

[And1AllDay]

The only guys skilled enough with enough chemistry to use pnr as their primary offense WITHOUT using today's kickout schemes for threes that make the play worthwhile

They had goat skill and chemistry, so they could succeed with the pnr without threes


https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif

[And1AllDay]

this was jordan's best competition? :biggums:

:applause:

One guy was the literal worst #2 option in NBA history :roll:

The other guy was top 10 worst all time :oldlol:

[RRR3]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.
No they aren

[SpaceJam2]

Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol



Nope, this was his toughest line of defense


https://i.postimg.cc/W30w2bkW/a3d65e33e8ee04301e241e0d2cd665c2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d3vmDPRq/ddace9d4be204c87f61848cf881c430e-jazz-players-nba-players.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cHd6KwL/hqdefault.jpg (https://postimages.org/)




Goodness gracious

:roll: :roll:

[jstern]

Just from memory, it looks as though they went up against the eventual champions 5 times, and the eventual runner up 2 times. Definitely not a cakewalk for them back then. They definitely would had made the Finals over 8 times in a row if they played in the East from 1999 to 2018, which is probably the weakest conferences in sports history. They would be considered top ten just because all of those Finals appearances.

[scuzzy]

Just from memory, it looks as though they went up against the eventual champions 5 times, and the eventual runner up 2 times. Definitely not a cakewalk for them back then. They definitely would had made the Finals over 8 times in a row if they played in the East from 1999 to 2018, which is probably the weakest conferences in sports history. They would be considered top ten just because all of those Finals appearances.
2 Finals losses get you Top 10 approval in the 90's



Yikes

[SpaceJam2]

Just from memory, it looks as though they went up against the eventual champions 5 times, and the eventual runner up 2 times. Definitely not a cakewalk for them back then. They definitely would had made the Finals over 8 times in a row if they played in the East from 1999 to 2018, which is probably the weakest conferences in sports history. They would be considered top ten just because all of those Finals appearances.

Imagine to stars playing their entire primes together for 18 years straight and winning zero rings and only making the Finals twice and losing in the 1st round NINE times.

Keep trying to hype them up but facts are facts :banana:

ANOTHER DAY :hammertime:

ANOTHER WIN :dancin

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Karl is 8-1 against Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs as is John and 8-3 against Duncan (stockton is 4-1) :oldlol: :oldlol:

the 3 guys with the most rings in the 00s were getting their that ass smacked by Stockton and Malone:roll: :roll: that boy Shaq was getting SCHWEPT:eek:

[jstern]

Imagine to stars playing their entire primes together for 18 years straight and winning zero rings and only making the Finals twice and losing in the 1st round NINE times.

Keep trying to hype them up but facts are facts :banana:

ANOTHER DAY :hammertime:

ANOTHER WIN :dancin

They were eliminated by five NBA champions and two teams that were beaten by the champions.

I don't know, but I just find that more impressive than making even ten Finals in the East during the periods of 1999 to 2018. Which is probably the weakest conference in sports history. Not to mention sweeping stacked teams like the Lakers, with Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, Van Exel. Try as hard as you can, no one was clamming that the Jazz were weak until Lebron fan boys that were conceived in the 2000s started pushing that narrative. If the Jazz were weak, then it's something that would have been repeated since the 90s.

[LAmbruh]

Karl is 8-1 against Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs as is John and 8-3 against Duncan (stockton is 4-1) :oldlol: :oldlol:

the 3 guys with the most rings in the 00s were getting their that ass smacked by Stockton and Malone:roll: :roll: that boy Shaq was getting SCHWEPT:eek:
Baby Kobe and Toddler Timmy being Jazz's playoff competetion



Shows how diluted the 90's and early 00's were :yaohappy:

[SpaceJam2]

They were eliminated by five NBA champions and two teams that were beaten by the champions.

I don't know but I just find that more impressive than making even ten Finals in the East in the period of 1999 to 2018. Which is probably the weakest conference in sports history. Not to mention sweeping stacked teams like the Lakers, with Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, Van Exel. Try as hard as you can, no one was clamming that the Jazz were weak until Lebron fan boys that were conceived in the 2000s started pushing that narrative. If the Jazz were weak, then it's something that would have been repeated since the 90s.

They. lost. in. the. 1st. round. NINE. times.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Baby Kobe and Toddler Timmy being Jazz's playoff competetion



Shows how diluted the 90's and early 00's were :yaohappy:

Shaq, Timmy an Kobe were afterthoughts in the 90s. Shaq was in his prime too and known as a joker that got swept against the real big bois:lol :lol

a 40yo Karl Malone was shutting down peak Duncan in 2004:roll: :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY9WYW_UK_E

the same Timmy who owns Brans soul in the playoffs and was dominating up to his late 30s in 2013/14:roll:

[LAmbruh]

Shaq, Timmy an Kobe were afterthoughts in the 90s. Shaq was in his prime too and known as a joker that got swept against the real big bois:lol :lol

a 40yo Karl Malone was shutting down peak Duncan in 2004:roll: :roll:

2004 Semis

Malone 10, 8, 3

Duncan 21, 12, 3


Shut down? :yaohappy: :hammerhead:

[SpaceJam2]

2004 Semis

Malone 10, 8, 3

Duncan 21, 12, 3


Shut down? :yaohappy: :hammerhead:


Hamtaro caught again :lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

2004 Semis

Malone 10, 8, 3

Duncan 21, 12, 3


Shut down? :yaohappy: :hammerhead:


He didnt guard him every possession babyboi

he was put on him more after the first 2 games and Tim averaged

17pts on 38% with 4tos a game against a 40yo man:roll: :roll:

[LAmbruh]

He didnt guard him every possession babyboi

he was put on him more after the first 2 games and Tim averaged

17pts on 38% with 4tos a game against a 40yo man:roll: :roll:
b-b-b-b-but shutdown


b-b-b-b-b-but didn't guard him erry posession


:yaohappy: :yaohappy:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PossibleUnlawfulIrishredandwhitesetter-small.gif

[Kblaze8855]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.

The only think Stockton did wrong was defer to Malone too much. He was often more effective scoring in the clutch but kept letting Malone **** it up.

[andgar923]

Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol






:oldlol:
MJ sh*tted on Allen, Pierce, Posey and KG past his prime at that. so..:confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

Malone would b1tch slap OP so hard the wheels on his chair would fall off from spinning.

If his boy had Malone and Stock in the East for even half of his career we would be looking at most 1 ring for the fraud known as Lebron James.

Free Bump.

Almost forgot:

https://i.ibb.co/C91R2bz/Ronnie.jpg

[TheCorporation]

Malone would b1tch slap OP so hard the wheels on his chair would fall off from spinning.

If his boy had Malone and Stock in the East for even half of his career we would be looking at most 1 ring for the fraud known as Lebron James.

Free Bump.


#3 with a Coke please

[tontoz]

I would say they underachieved but trash bros is extreme. They had to face some legit dynasties.

First they had to deal with the Showtime Lakers one of the greatest dynasties ever.

Then they got to the Finals back to back but lost to MJ's Bulls. They put up a fight though.

Then they had to deal with Duncan's Spurs.

[And1AllDay]

Malone would b1tch slap OP so hard the wheels on his chair would fall off from spinning.

If his boy had Malone and Stock in the East for even half of his career we would be looking at most 1 ring for the fraud known as Lebron James.

Free Bump.

Almost forgot:

https://i.ibb.co/C91R2bz/Ronnie.jpg

I will like a Big Mac with a Coke pls

[AirFederer]

The lebrons of the 90ies :eek:

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[LostCause]

Utah wasn

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Utah wasn

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Utah wasn

[Haymaker]

Stockton > Malone :pimp:

[Showtime80']

LOL, the Utah Jazz of the late 90's showed EXACTLY how watered down the NBA had become with the guys that came into the league in the mid 90's an onward that ironically went on to DOMINATE the even more watered down 00's and present 10's!!!.

Utah finished with the BEST RECORD in the NBA in 1998 playing in a Western Conference that included:

Lakers (Shaq, Kobe)- 61 wins- Swept 4-0 in WCF
Spurs (Duncan)- 56 wins- Beat 4-1 in WCSF
Suns- (Kidd, Nash)- 56 wins
Wolves- (Garnett)- 45 wins
Blazers- (Wallace) 46 wins

Haha!!! Those 7 players above won 13 titles between 1999- 2014 (Kicking LeBald's as! in the process) and yet couldn't handle a Utah Jazz team lead by 35 y/o Malone, Stockton and Hornacek!!! LOL!!!!!! Here are nice little videos of these guys RAPING one of the most athletic teams of all time in the 1998 Lakers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so5JjKpxJjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pW7oYxfBhY&t=2s

Players started getting dumber and less fundamentally sound in the mid 90's and the Jazz with their solid system, basketball IQ and physicality took full advantage. Hell the Jazz were still winning 50+ games up to 2001 in the STRONGER CONFERENCE!

Can you imagine Stockton/Malone, even in their older versions playing against todays dumbed down, one dimensional, fundamentally flawed soft primadonnas like Westrbrick, Harden, Durant, Curry and LeBald?!?! They would SLAUGHTER THEM!

[tpols]

^^^

Did this dude really just say curry is dumbed down?

Golden state averages more assists, hockey assists, and total passes than the late 90s jazz.

Golden state makes them look dumb... just spamming PnRs.



That was almost as ignorant as 3balls "standstill" comment, when the dubs have more player movement than perhaps any team ever.

[tpols]

Also why would you be shocked 35 year old grown men Stockton and Malone could beat a bunch of young 20s guys?

That has been happening throughout all of basketball history. An old Dirk and ancient Jason Kidd beat Durant Westbrook wade LeBron and bosh all in their primes... Vet teams tend to win over younger ones. :hammerhead:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

The only think Stockton did wrong was defer to Malone too much. He was often more effective scoring in the clutch but kept letting Malone **** it up.

Yup and Jerry Sloans control freak system

Karl never had a reliable half court scoring game. If that 16 ft fadeaway wasn't falling he'd have a bunch of those 6/19 games because he had issues with a reliable shot and score when be couldn't get transition, pick and roll or easy shots inside

Stockton before Sloan was outplaying a peak Magic h2h before he ever became an all-star

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-lakers.html

[Showtime80']

Again apples and oranges tpols, the Jazz averaged 25 assists in 1998 playing at an 89 pace while the present day Warriors play at a 101 pace!

Maybe calling the Warriors dumbed down is a bit of a stretch, but being the smartest in the truly dumbed down modern NBA is not saying much specially when EVERY RULE that has been altered in the past 20+ years has been put in to enhanced the limited abilities of guys like Curry and Klay. It also helps that EVERY team in the NBA is trying to play like them which has NEVER been seen in NBA history.

Is not about being shocked that the Jazz beat the Lakers in 1998, it is about keeping things in perspective when people try to minimize those Jazz teams. They would've been one of the top teams in ANY DEDADE and would've been a headache to deal with. It took amazing performances from the greatest player, coach and team of all time to stop them from winning. Shaq, Kobe, Tim Duncan and Dirk DON'T own the West as they did with Stockton/Malone in their primes during the 00's/10's. Here's a another video of them at 37/38 y/o going toe to toe with Dirk/Nash in 2001:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhET0Z37Wd8

You would think that the young "uber athletic" late 90's Lakers with four ALL-STARS would make a dent in the OLD, slow, predominantly WHITE Jazz team but NOOOOOOO, they got TROUNCED 8-1 between 1997 and 98 and it wasn't even that close!

The NBA sold their collective SOULS at the altar of athleticism and individual offensive stars during the mid to late 90's and in the process sacrificed the fundamentals, intelligence, grit, execution and precision that made teams like the Jazz of the 80's to 2000's a thing of beauty!

[NBAGOAT]

why do people bring up the 98 version, stockton was practically a super role player by then and didnt make the all star game even but competed with the Bulls because they were at the end of their rope too. The 97 version is the one worth talking about.

64-18 during the rs and gave a 69 win Bulls team that wasnt too much worse than their goat version a year ago a legitimate series. 93 Suns and 96 Sonics have strong arguments and I tend to like them too.

On the other hand I have reservations about the 93 Suns defense and am not so sure the first 3 peat Bulls are better than the first two years of the 2nd 3peat(for one why do most agree the 96 Bulls are clearly their goat version) even with the expansion stuff. It only helps the suns anyway. With the 96 Sonics, I could point to a worse Jazz team taking them to 7 even though it's one series. Also, multiple people have pointed out Malone's flaws as a halfcourt scorer but who the hell do the Sonics have as a half court scorer, always one of their main flaws in the playoffs

[Showtime80']

I'm sorry again tpols but people forget that the 98 Lakers had just come off beating the VETERAN 61 win Sonics putting up DEVASTATING offensive numbers in their 5 game series win and had EVERYBODY picking them past the Jazz and meeting the Bulls in the Finals (the Jordan-Kobe narrative would've been VOMIT INDUCING to say the least, thanks again Jazz).

1998 West Semis Lakers numbers:

84 pace
105ppg
57% eFG
44% 3's (41/93)
52% FG

Shift to the WCF against the Jazz and their numbers were:

90 pace (more to the Lakers liking)
91.ppg
43% eFG
26% 3's
40% FG

That is an absolute DEFENSIVE CLINIC against a team that was younger, more athletic and DEEPER coming off a blowout win in the prior round.

The NBA didn't like smart, physical, defensive oriented teams to impose their will on the new up an coming "all braun NO BRAINS" softer crop of supposed stars because it hurt their bottom line so they went to work on re-writing the rules to ensure that would NEVER happen today. Say hello to the manufactured Harden, Curry, Dumbrook, Gianis and LeBald era!

[TheMan]

Another retarded LeBron fanboy thread trying to undermine MJ only to prop up LeBron.

****ing christ, the rage in these incels.
Just ignore them and read the Bronsexual circlejerk just for shits and giggles because either they're trolling or they really are that stupid so you'd be wasting your time in either case.

Hold this L ISH basketball forum, easily the worst forum for knowledgeable hoops discussion :facepalm

[Phoenix]

On the other hand I have reservations about the 93 Suns defense and am not so sure the first 3 peat Bulls are better than the first two years of the 2nd 3peat(for one why do most agree the 96 Bulls are clearly their goat version) even with the expansion stuff.

I would tend to go with the idea that Jordan and Pippen were younger, healthier and more athletic versions of their 2nd 3peat selves. I suppose the case could be made for 2nd 3peat MJ/Pippen being more experienced and savvy but.....you're talking prime/peak MJ for the first 3peat. Scottie was a better leader from 96-98, but was really bad offensively in the playoffs and was hobbled for much of the 98 season(missed 38 games and his back was shot for game 6 of the finals, hence MJ's 45 point bailout performance). In 91-93 he provided much better offensive help to MJ while still offering superior defense. I would take 96 Rodman over Grant, but by 98 Rodman was coming off the bench for most of the playoffs and his numbers were declining( check his finals numbers in 98 for example). Benches were more or less a wash, maybe a slight edge to 96-98 because of Kukoc but.... I just feel like 91-93 MJ/Pippen cover any deficits that version of the team has compared to 96-98.

Furthermore, after 95 the league was not only bloated out from expansion, but was transitioning with the 80's stars aging( Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler etc) while the younger, up and coming stars were still figuring out how to win( Shaq, pre-injury Penny, Grant Hill, etc) with the 00's stars like Kobe, Garnett, Duncan coming in at the latter end of the decade. The first 3peat squad played in a league that featured a number of all-timers right in their primes( Barkley, Ewing, Admiral, Malone, Drexler) and before the talent pool was further diluted by the 2 Canadian teams joining in 95.

[tpols]

Again apples and oranges tpols, the Jazz averaged 25 assists in 1998 playing at an 89 pace while the present day Warriors play at a 101 pace!

Maybe calling the Warriors dumbed down is a bit of a stretch, but being the smartest in the truly dumbed down modern NBA is not saying much specially when EVERY RULE that has been altered in the past 20+ years has been put in to enhanced the limited abilities of guys like Curry and Klay. It also helps that EVERY team in the NBA is trying to play like them which has NEVER been seen in NBA history


showtime,

The '16 warriors averaged 29 dimes a game... the same amount as the '86 GOAT celtics... BUT at a slower pace than Boston.

So you're kind of blowing up your whole argument when you do things like call them dumb. Theyre one of the highest IQ, team ball playing squads to ever play the game.

The old man stuff... were always tougher than you stuff is old too... Karl Malone was the only physically robust star on those jazz teams, but everybody knows he was a coward at heart.

Ill never forget the dream team doc where johnny boy walks around italy and NOBODY knew he was on the dream team because he was so physically non imposing.. all 5'11 175 lbs of him. Meanwhile Curry is a legit 6'3 185 but the way you talk about him youd think he was a lighter skinned spud webb.

Jefff hornacek too... nothing imposing about him just a smart glue guy talented baller, but even a buffed out iggy playing in a similar role makes him look like a child.

The "YOU YOUNGINS ARE SO SOFT WED JUST PUNK YA" argument just doesnt fly old chap.

If that were the case the '04 pacers would be better than the warriors but were talking basketball.

I just wish i could see the dumbfounded look on your face if the two squads could face each other...

the avalanche would be BEAUtiful.

:rockon:

[NBAGOAT]

I would tend to go with the idea that Jordan and Pippen were younger, healthier and more athletic versions of their 2nd 3peat selves. I suppose the case could be made for 2nd 3peat MJ/Pippen being more experienced and savvy but.....you're talking prime/peak MJ for the first 3peat. Scottie was a better leader from 96-98, but was really bad offensively in the playoffs and was hobbled for much of the 98 season(missed 38 games and his back was shot for game 6 of the finals, hence MJ's 45 point bailout performance). In 91-93 he provided much better offensive help to MJ while still offering superior defense. I would take 96 Rodman over Grant, but by 98 Rodman was coming off the bench for most of the playoffs and his numbers were declining( check his finals numbers in 98 for example). Benches were more or less a wash, maybe a slight edge to 96-98 because of Kukoc but.... I just feel like 91-93 MJ/Pippen cover any deficits that version of the team has compared to 96-98.

Furthermore, after 95 the league was not only bloated out from expansion, but was transitioning with the 80's stars aging( Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler etc) while the younger, up and coming stars were still figuring out how to win( Shaq, pre-injury Penny, Grant Hill, etc) with the 00's stars like Kobe, Garnett, Duncan coming in at the latter end of the decade. The first 3peat squad played in a league that featured a number of all-timers right in their primes( Barkley, Ewing, Admiral, Malone, Drexler) and before the talent pool was further diluted by the 2 Canadian teams joining in 95.

i cant disagree with most of what you said. Agreed on MJ being better during the first 3peat. Not as sure about Pippen but his playoff play is worse, I prefer to just kind of downplay 98 in a comparison. It feels like definitely the worst Bulls title team. Also seems like the late 90s might've been a harder offensive era because of pace, not sure.

I'm surprised you have rodman over grant. I'm not sure his rebounding is enough to make up grant's advantages as a scorer. It's not as big a factor during the playoffs too. I kind of see grant like his era's 2015 draymond before he developed his insane playmaking. Tbf to rodman, he was useful specifically vs Utah because he's the only one who could cover Malone well.

I like the 96-98 supporting cast more however even outside Kukoc who I think gets a little undervalued and should be included in a "big 4". He doesnt have the raw stats because of minutes played but he can shoot and pass which is great on talented teams, seems like one of the better 3rd guys in the league. There are 3rd guys who scored more like scott or hornacek but I think the only ones i'm definitively taking over him is detlef and 97 drexler.

Edit: i'll throw this out there for 97 since it's an ok sample size. Bulls 50-7 with kukoc, 19-6 without him. Tbf, may be some overlap with rodman

[Phoenix]

i cant disagree with most of what you said. Agreed on MJ being better during the first 3peat. Not as sure about Pippen but his playoff play is worse, I prefer to just kind of downplay 98 in a comparison. It feels like definitely the worst Bulls title team. Also seems like the late 90s might've been a harder offensive era because of pace, not sure.

I'm surprised you have rodman over grant. I'm not sure his rebounding is enough to make up grant's advantages as a scorer. It's not as big a factor during the playoffs too. I kind of see grant like his era's 2015 draymond before he developed his insane playmaking. Tbf to rodman, he was useful specifically vs Utah because he's the only one who could cover Malone well.

I like the 96-98 supporting cast more however even outside Kukoc who I think gets a little undervalued and should be included in a "big 4". He doesnt have the raw stats because of minutes played but he can shoot and pass which is great on talented teams, seems like one of the better 3rd guys in the league. There are 3rd guys who scored more like scott or hornacek but I think the only ones i'm definitively taking over him is detlef and 97 drexler.

I put Rodman over Grant because Rodman was vital in defending guys like Shaq, Mourning, and Malone in those playoff matchups. Without that the Bulls have a much harder time those series. I do think Rodman's rebounding gives him a decisive edge because Grants scoring was more of a bonus than a necessity. He wasn't really counted on for scoring like Rodman was counted on for rebounding. Also, MJ and Scottie being in their primes the first go-around meant they could go all out on both ends whereas they had to pick their spots as they closed out the 2nd 3peat. I think the first 3peat MJ/Pippen/Grant doberman defensive trio were more tenacious overall.

And if you think about it, if you think Grant was better than Rodman that's actually an argument for the first 3peat team since as you agree, MJ/Pippen duo were better as their younger, more dynamic selves. I do think its an interesting comparison, and I would take the 96 team over 91 obviously and mayyyybe 92. I would take the 93 team over any of the 2nd 3peat teams and to think, MJ retiring robbed us of seeing the 93 team with Kukoc coming in and bench roster upgrades. The 94 team could have been the best of the lot has MJ not left unexpectedly.

[NBAGOAT]

I put Rodman over Grant because Rodman was vital in defending guys like Shaq, Mourning, and Malone in those playoff matchups. Without that the Bulls have a much harder time those series. I do think Rodman's rebounding gives him a decisive edge because Grants scoring was more of a bonus than a necessity. He wasn't really counted on for scoring like Rodman was counted on for rebounding. Also, MJ and Scottie being in their primes the first go-around meant they could go all out on both ends whereas they had to pick their spots as they closed out the 2nd 3peat. I think the first 3peat MJ/Pippen/Grant doberman defensive trio were more tenacious overall.

And if you think about it, if you think Grant was better than Rodman that's actually an argument for the first 3peat team since as you agree, MJ/Pippen duo were better as their younger, more dynamic selves. I do think its an interesting comparison, and I would take the 96 team over 91 obviously and mayyyybe 92. I would take the 93 team over any of the 2nd 3peat teams and to think, MJ retiring robbed us of seeing the 93 team with Kukoc coming in and bench roster upgrades. The 94 team could have been the best of the lot has MJ not left unexpectedly.

I think I might just value kukoc a little more than you. That's an interesting take about 93 but I can see it too. 93 team was pretty good in the playoffs. I think it hurts I'm not as high on the knicks as some and they did give the Bulls a super competitive series but that might just be offensive bias.

Like the grant injury in 96 wouldnt have made a difference results wise but series would be more competitive and people would view the magic more fondly as an east opponent(my opinion they might've been the best one even with an average defense and no bench). Offensive bias again could be a factor here however, in terms of offensive talent they're head and shoulders above the others in the east those 6 years.

If you believe that 93 was the best team, then the 93 Suns are likely at the top of the list. The 93 knicks would be above a lot of Finals team too which some people in this thread are arguing for.

[ArbitraryWater]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.

16/12 on 47.4% over a 10-year stretch


not sure what youre saying

[ArbitraryWater]

the 98 team never should have won


Utah got robbed badly, refs apologized to them next year

[Showtime80']

Here you go equating "athletic measurements" as proof of toughness and physicality tpols. LeBald is one of the most imposing physical figures in HISTORY while at the same time also being a soft, perimeter oriented flopper who has second year teammates shoving him in the back to play defense, LOL!!!

NOBODY messed with Karl Malone, he may have choked at times but nobody stepped up to him physically on a basketball court, same goes for guys like Stockton, Ostertag, Foster, Russell and Carr on that team. They were a TOUGH bunch, just ask the 1998 Lakers again.

If you want to see impressive measurements again check out the 98 Lakers:

Nick Van Exel 6-1 170- 26 y/o
Kobe Bryant 6-6 212- 19 y/o
Rick Fox SF 6-7 230- 25 y/o
Robert Horry PF 6-9 220- 27 y/o
Eddie Jones SG 6-6 190- 26 y/o
Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 325- 25 y/o
Elden Campbell C 6-11 215- 29 y/o

That's an athletically imposing, young and tall 7 man rotation tpols!!! Capped off by the MOST DOMINANT monster in NBA history in Shaq who came off dropping 31 ppg on 63%FG , 10 rbs, 4 assists and 4 blks on the Sonics heads.

Even with all those advantages, the Jazz were TOUGHER than the Lakers and would be tougher than 100% of the pussified teams of today. Also keep in mind that the Jazz TROUNCED THE LAKERS WITHOUT the pseudo zone the NBA came up with which allows you to hide weak slower defenders. It was mano and mano back then which benefited more athletic players!

The problem for the 98' Lakers and the NBA teams of today if you could put them in that era is that the NBA STILL ALLOWED physically imposing tough defense in the late 90's and that would be the biggest nightmare of the finesse oriented, rule enhanced, defensively neutered teams of today. Here's your boy Donkey talking about this earlier in the year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAU7XlAPYSU

Klay, little Stephie and Durant are not built for 90's rules, they are a direct product of today's rule tinkering Disney owned NBA. The only avalanche you would see against the Jazz are the elbows by Malone and Ostertag for anybody who came down the middle and the grappling hand checking of the perimeter defenders sticking to the Warriors guards like glue.

By the way, how many fouls do Green and/or Durant accumulate before halftime guarding 1998 Karl Malone ?!?! Here's what he did against prime Shaq in the WCF:

30 ppg on 51%FG
10 rbs
5 assts

Good luck with that!

[Phoenix]

I think I might just value kukoc a little more than you. That's an interesting take about 93 but I can see it too. 93 team was pretty good in the playoffs. I think it hurts I'm not as high on the knicks as some and they did give the Bulls a super competitive series but that might just be offensive bias.

Like the grant injury in 96 wouldnt have made a difference results wise but series would be more competitive and people would view the magic more fondly as an east opponent(my opinion they might've been the best one even with an average defense and no bench). Offensive bias again could be a factor here however, in terms of offensive talent they're head and shoulders above the others in the east those 6 years.

If you believe that 93 was the best team, then the 93 Suns are likely at the top of the list. The 93 knicks would be above a lot of Finals team too which some people in this thread are arguing for.

93 Knicks were legit imo. I'd have picked them over the Suns had they beaten the Bulls, because I think their frontline of Ewing/Oakley/Smith/Mason would have neutralized Barkley, and the Suns had no answer for Ewing. The backcourt matchups between Majerle, Ainge and KJ against Starks, Rivers, Greg Anthony and Blackman mostly comes out to a wash. I think the Knicks physicality that series makes the difference.

[NBAGOAT]

16/12 on 47.4% over a 10-year stretch


not sure what youre saying

wat the 10 season stretch he averaged 16, doesnt sound right. pretty sure his scoring volume dropped from rs to ps. Also significant efficiency drops, maybe 5% ish in his prime years so comparable to malone there.

[NBAGOAT]

93 Knicks were legit imo. I'd have picked them over the Suns had they beaten the Bulls, because I think their frontline of Ewing/Oakley/Smith/Mason would have neutralized Barkley, and the Suns had no answer for Ewing. The backcourt matchups between Majerle, Ainge and KJ against Starks, Rivers, Greg Anthony and Blackman mostly comes out to a wash. I think the Knicks physicality that series makes the difference.

yea i've seen that said too. It's one problem with comparing teams just by matchups, some teams just matchup well vs other teams. I feel like the 93 Knicks could definitely win vs the Suns but I feel like the Suns are better overall and would win more vs other great teams.

[Phoenix]

yea i've seen that said too. It's one problem with comparing teams just by matchups, some teams just matchup well vs other teams. I feel like the 93 Knicks could definitely win vs the Suns but I feel like the Suns are better overall and would win more vs other great teams.

It's always about the matchup. Hell, the main reason the Bulls were even able to handle the Knicks physicality is because the Pistons gave them plenty of experience on their way to the top. The Suns were built around faster paced open court western style ball and were able to get out of the west in 93 with that method as well as Barkley's MVP level play.

[Showtime80']

Great exchange GOAT and Phoenix!


The first 3 peat Bulls overwhelmed teams with speed and athleticism as they were all in their physical primes and Cartwright proved to be a great backline defender if you somehow got away from the Dobermans. The second 3 peat teams were older, more cerebral and deeper and equally as lethal but the league had already started it's downward spiral in the mid 90's (continuing to today) and they could just beat the crap out of teams with experience and smarts!

To me the greatest Bulls team of the 90's we NEVER saw would've been the 1994 team with Michael Jordan playing a full season. They would've probably won between 72-75 games and stomped their way to the title. What do you guys think?

[NBAGOAT]

It's always about the matchup. Hell, the main reason the Bulls were even able to handle the Knicks physicality is because the Pistons gave them plenty of experience on their way to the top. The Suns were built around faster paced open court western style ball and were able to get out of the west in 93 with that method as well as Barkley's MVP level play.

true but I was making another point with that comment lol. Let's take a random situation with say the 96 Bulls, 86 Celtics and other great teams. I have the Bulls losing to the Celtics in a what if matchup hypothetically but have them beating all the other great teams of all time.

I have the Celtics losing to a few others however(let's just say 87 Lakers and 83 Sixers as a hypothetical, I dont necessarily feel this way). Which team is greater all time then?

[NBAGOAT]

Great exchange GOAT and Phoenix!


The first 3 peat Bulls overwhelmed teams with speed and athleticism as they were all in their physical primes and Cartwright proved to be a great backline defender if you somehow got away from the Dobermans. The second 3 peat teams were older, more cerebral and deeper and equally as lethal but the league had already started it's downward spiral in the mid 90's (continuing to today) and they could just beat the crap out of teams with experience and smarts!

To me the greatest Bulls team of the 90's we NEVER saw would've been the 1994 team with Michael Jordan playing a full season. They would've probably won between 72-75 games and stomped their way to the title. What do you guys think?

they wouldnt go that hard during the rs because there's no point in going that hard after 3peating. Feels like a playoff run where they lose like 2-3 playoff games however

[Phoenix]

To me the greatest Bulls team of the 90's we NEVER saw would've been the 1994 team with Michael Jordan playing a full season. They would've probably won between 72-75 games and stomped their way to the title. What do you guys think?

If they got off to a hot start and decided to 'go for it', sure. I think it depends really on how hard MJ pushed for it and whether his play suffered any( or if he paced himself) in the aftermath of his father's untimely demise. On paper, I could see it. MJ was just coming off the best statistical season since 90( 33/7/6). Pippen was a fully realized and mature superstar at 28 in his apex. Grant and BJ were championship saavvy and tested coming into their own. Then you bring in Kukoc to shore up the becnh. The potential for 70+ was there before we saw it 2 years later.

[Showtime80']

I don't know GOAT, after having a subpar regular season in terms of wins in 1993 (mainly because MJ and Scottie were drained after Barcelona) I think they would've come out with a vengeance in 94'.

Remember that was Pippen and Grant's absolute peak period along with adding new players like Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington and Longley who blended nicely with the veterans Armstrong and Cartwright. They still had guys like Paxson, Williams and King with championship experience at the end of the bench if needed.

Michael would've been in devastating form from the start in 94 and being the last season in Chicago Stadium they would've definitely gunned for 70+ wins and the title to cap it off. Their main comp in the east would've been the Knicks, Pacers and Hawks which they always owned and the would've EATEN ALIVE the 94 Rockets in 4 or 5 games in the Finals.

The question is, does Jordan return for 95 and beyond if they fourpeat?

[Showtime80']

Damn parallel thinking Phoenix :applause: !!!

[Phoenix]

true but I was making another point with that comment lol. Let's take a random situation with say the 96 Bulls, 86 Celtics and other great teams. I have the Bulls losing to the Celtics in a what if matchup hypothetically but have them beating all the other great teams of all time.

I have the Celtics losing to a few others however(let's just say 87 Lakers and 83 Sixers as a hypothetical, I dont necessarily feel this way). Which team is greater all time then?

Yeah I got where you were going with your original comment. You were saying that even if the Knicks were able to beat the Suns it doesn't mean they would be able to beat all the teams the Suns could be capable of beating.

[Phoenix]

I don't know GOAT, after having a subpar regular season in terms of wins in 1993 (mainly because MJ and Scottie were drained after Barcelona) I think they would've come out with a vengeance in 94'.

Remember that was Pippen and Grant's absolute peak period along with adding new players like Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington and Longley who blended nicely with the veterans Armstrong and Cartwright. They still had guys like Paxson, Williams and King with championship experience at the end of the bench if needed.

Michael would've been in devastating form from the start in 94 and being the last season in Chicago Stadium they would've definitely gunned for 70+ wins and the title to cap it off. Their main comp in the east would've been the Knicks, Pacers and Hawks which they always owned and the would've EATEN ALIVE the 94 Rockets in 4 or 5 games in the Finals.

The question is, does Jordan return for 95 and beyond if they fourpeat?

This is where it gets tricky, but I'd assume if the events that caused MJ to quit didn't make him do so in 94, and they win, then I'd think at that point MJ would have returned in 95. The challenge? How far can they push this thing, the spectre of the 60's Celtics over his/their heads.

I'm more curious to see what happens towards the later 90's. Alot of people think that had MJ not retired( and lets say Grant doesn't leave for Orlando which thins out their frontline) they run off 8 titles. Not too sure about that, because by 98 the Bulls were running on 1/4 tank by the end. They had to extract every bit of poise, championship mettle, and 'greatness' to get that 98 title. I'm inclined to think the Bulls had a better chance of running off 5 titles in a row( 90-95), and then perhaps they're too worn down, someone suffers too great an injury and they lose in 96, then perhaps bounce back for 97. It's hard to say, but if MJ doesn't quit in 93 that opens up an entirely alternate reality of events in the subsequent seasons.

[Round Mound]

The GOAT "Offensive" Duo.

[red1]

stockton and malone. the OG trash bros. I like it.


I'm a big fan of this thread op. :applause:

[TheMan]

showtime,

The '16 warriors averaged 29 dimes a game... the same amount as the '86 GOAT celtics... BUT at a slower pace than Boston.

So you're kind of blowing up your whole argument when you do things like call them dumb. Theyre one of the highest IQ, team ball playing squads to ever play the game.

The old man stuff... were always tougher than you stuff is old too... Karl Malone was the only physically robust star on those jazz teams, but everybody knows he was a coward at heart.

Ill never forget the dream team doc where johnny boy walks around italy and NOBODY knew he was on the dream team because he was so physically non imposing.. all 5'11 175 lbs of him. Meanwhile Curry is a legit 6'3 185 but the way you talk about him youd think he was a lighter skinned spud webb.

Jefff hornacek too... nothing imposing about him just a smart glue guy talented baller, but even a buffed out iggy playing in a similar role makes him look like a child.

The "YOU YOUNGINS ARE SO SOFT WED JUST PUNK YA" argument just doesnt fly old chap.

If that were the case the '04 pacers would be better than the warriors but were talking basketball.

I just wish i could see the dumbfounded look on your face if the two squads could face each other...

the avalanche would be BEAUtiful.

:rockon:
Depends on what rules you playing by mate...

Yes, the Warriors take a lot of dumb shots, problem is that they are let off the hook by teams matching them by also taking a lot of stupid shots. Look, the game has changed to where I don't recognize it anymore, it's a glorified 3pt contest. A 25 foot 3pter is always a low iq shot, even if it goes down every once in a while. I've seen so many of these idiotic heaves in crucial parts of games that people have gotten used to them...today's NBA has the worst shot selection I've ever seen.

A team like the 86 Celtics absolutely demolishes these Warriors especially if they play by the 80s rules, fukking choir boy Curry would get his head taken off if his scrawny ass waltzed into the lane...and who on Golden State would stop Bird, Parrish, McHale and Walton from feasting on high percentage shots? Go ahead Warriors, keep shooting those 3s while the Celtics pound your ass on the glass :lol

Only shot Warriors have in beating those Celtics is by today's pus*y ass rules where you get thrown out of the game by looking at the opposing player with too much of a meanie face.

[NBAGOAT]

Depends on what rules you playing by mate...

Yes, the Warriors take a lot of dumb shots, problem is that they are let off the hook by teams matching them by also taking a lot of stupid shots. Look, the game has changed to where I don't recognize it anymore, it's a glorified 3pt contest. A 25 foot 3pter is always a low iq shot, even if it goes down every once in a while. I've seen so many of these idiotic heaves in crucial parts of games that people have gotten used to them...today's NBA has the worst shot selection I've ever seen.

A team like the 86 Celtics absolutely demolishes these Warriors especially if they play by the 80s rules, fukking choir boy Curry would get his head taken off if his scrawny ass waltzed into the lane...and who on Golden State would stop Bird, Parrish, McHale and Walton from feasting on high percentage shots? Go ahead Warriors, keep shooting those 3s while the Celtics pound your ass on the glass :lol

Only shot Warriors have in beating those Celtics is by today's pus*y ass rules where you get thrown out of the game by looking at the opposing player with too much of a meanie face.

Yea you don

[brutalBBQ]

It's all analytics, on screen in the 90's and 80's sure we got visual pleasure.
Everything is monitored, dissected and calculated now thanks to evolution in sports science.
https://media.wired.com/photos/59323aaf4dc9b45ccec5cb53/master/w_289,c_limit/ff_mccluskyfaster_high_stronger.jpg

[QUOTE]As recently as 2012, the average team took only 18.4 three-point shots per game. In 2017, teams took 27, a near 50% increase. The increased use of the three-pointer was largely a result of analysis showing that a three pointer that had only a 35% chance of going in still, on average, led to more points than a two-point jump shot taken closer to the basket. As a result, coaches have begun to encourage players with strong three-point shooting skills, like the Warriors

[Elosha]

Stockton would be dellavedova @ best in this era and deep down every jordanaire knows it

Needs to be added to ISH's dumbest comments thread. Nice, you made the list. :applause:

[Showtime80']

There in lies the problem GOAT and The Man just exposed it!

For all the 3 point hoopla in today's game, it has been documented that 80%+ of those 3's are COMPLETELY wide open and they still can only muster up a 35% clip!!! Even the Warriors were talking 60 3's and making 50% of them against the 86 's Celtics and 90's Bulls that's still only 75 points, where are their other points coming from if the paint is closed down and they are taking contested mid range shots and not getting to the line because they have ZERO inside game?

The Warriors even with today's soft rules and three free throws on 3 pointers get to the line only 20 times per game which means they do not put pressure on the defense in the foul trouble department which completely changes the plan of the attack for ANY MODERN TEAM against those 80's/90's squads that got to the line 25+ times on average. As the MAN says, the Warriors are helped by the fact that EVERY TEAM in the NBA is basing their game plan on taking bad 25+ footers and that bails them out consistently.

What team is going to get in foul trouble first? The Warriors jacking up 25+ footers or the Celtics/Bulls pounding the ball inside against small ball lineups? Let's see were the Warriors attack goes when Donkey has 3 fouls before halftime dealing with the paint attack of MJ, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Walton or Parish!

On the defensive end like I said earlier, the 80's/90's rules allowed for physically disrupting defenses that affected finesse teams greatly. You could IMPOSE your will on the other team and take away their strengths like the Jazz did to the 98' Lakers which nailed 41 3's at a 44% clip (That's Warriorsesque) and went down to 19 makes on 26% in the WCF!

Check out the 96 Magic and Sonics as well, who made 8 and 7 3's a game in the regular season at 38% and 36% and then went down to 25% and 31% in the ECF and Finals respectively.

The modern NBA DOES NOT ALLOW for hard nose physical defense anymore and that's why guys like Harden, Curry, Thompson and Durant can roam free without having to worry about that physicality altering their styles. Under 80's/90's rules it would be a different story and they would need to construct their team differently to even SURVIVE!

[Showtime80']

Here's Steve Kerr talking about the rules alteration a little bit more in regards to Steph:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoD9UCBgcs

Sports Science has been going on for A LOOOOONG TIME and it definitely has its place but the NBA had much greater impact in this 3 point spamming by changing A TON of rules to free up offenses and neuter defenses specially on the perimeter.

[TheMan]

Yea you don’t get it the numbers don’t support wat you’re saying. So many guys can make 40% of those 3s open and 33% when they’re kind of contested. Curry and klay are a tier above those guys. Everyone thinks shots near the basket are easy but that’s only layups and dunks. Very few guys all time can make 50% of their post ups, floaters, and or jumpers inside the 3 pt line(granted mchale and bird may be some of those guys). You take a worse post scorer like say Malone and you’re just often trading 2 for 3(I think it’s confirmed he’s like a mid 40s midrange guy and his post game isn’t the best)
I specifically mentioned the 86 Celtics would crush these Warriors because those Celts had the GOAT frontcourt...who on the Warriors is gonna stop Bird, Parrish, McHale and Walton from scoring near the basket and picking up offensive rebounds when they miss? Draymond Green by himself? Lol.

Look, the Warriors have the perfect team for today's soft as marshmallow NBA but put these Warriors in the 80s under the rules back then and no way do they have the physicality to hang with those frontcourts, they would literally get mauled on the boards. You better make those 3 pointers at an insane clip because you ain't getting a second chance and the Celtics would almost score at will near the basket or grab second or third chances with offensive rebounds. It's no secret that the way to beat GSWs is by slowing down the game and being physical with them, (we saw this in 2016) under 80s rules, they don't stand a chance. And forget about getting fastbreak points since the Celtics wouldn't take a lot of long range shots leading to long rebounds (even if they could since Bird and Ainge were good 3pt shooters).

The rules changes is what has led to these Warriors success, good on them for taking advantage of it but they are a GOAT team strictly by today's soft offensive tilted rules...in no other era are they getting away with launching stupid 25 footers without paying a price for it on the other end of the court...add to it that those 86 Celtics weren't a low IQ team either, arguably the smartest team ever on top of that.

[superduper]

The kids in this era are seriously alarmingly retarded

[TheMan]

There in lies the problem GOAT and The Man just exposed it!

For all the 3 point hoopla in today's game, it has been documented that 80%+ of those 3's are COMPLETELY wide open and they still can only muster up a 35% clip!!! Even the Warriors were talking 60 3's and making 50% of them against the 86 's Celtics and 90's Bulls that's still only 75 points, where are their other points coming from if the paint is closed down and they are taking contested mid range shots and not getting to the line because they have ZERO inside game?

The Warriors even with today's soft rules and three free throws on 3 pointers get to the line only 20 times per game which means they do not put pressure on the defense in the foul trouble department which completely changes the plan of the attack for ANY MODERN TEAM against those 80's/90's squads that got to the line 25+ times on average. As the MAN says, the Warriors are helped by the fact that EVERY TEAM in the NBA is basing their game plan on taking bad 25+ footers and that bails them out consistently.

What team is going to get in foul trouble first? The Warriors jacking up 25+ footers or the Celtics/Bulls pounding the ball inside against small ball lineups? Let's see were the Warriors attack goes when Donkey has 3 fouls before halftime dealing with the paint attack of MJ, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Walton or Parish!

On the defensive end like I said earlier, the 80's/90's rules allowed for physically disrupting defenses that affected finesse teams greatly. You could IMPOSE your will on the other team and take away their strengths like the Jazz did to the 98' Lakers which nailed 41 3's at a 44% clip (That's Warriorsesque) and went down to 19 makes on 26% in the WCF!

Check out the 96 Magic and Sonics as well, who made 8 and 7 3's a game in the regular season at 38% and 36% and then went down to 25% and 31% in the ECF and Finals respectively.

The modern NBA DOES NOT ALLOW for hard nose physical defense anymore and that's why guys like Harden, Curry, Thompson and Durant can roam free without having to worry about that physicality altering their styles. Under 80's/90's rules it would be a different story and they would need to construct their team differently to even SURVIVE!
Exactly :applause:

These kids today really have no idea how much the NBA has tilted the rules to help the offense. Teams regularly score over 110 points today, that was almost unheard of in the 90s and part of the 2000s and it wasn't because they couldn't shoot the damn ball...the defenses were allowed to disrupt the offense back then, today you can't get away with any physicality on the perrimeter, that frees up shooters to do their thing. Imagine players like Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Drazen Petrovic etc today...they would be mega stars because their offensive stats would be even better by today's rules. Jordan would be free to attack the rim at will without a 7 footer parked in the lane and his defender not allowed to put a hand on him, dude would average 40+ easily today...:facepalm

[sportjames23]

Showtime and The Man summed everything up perfectly. It's to the point that you know every team in the runs the same damn offense--drive the lane and lay it up/dunk it, or kick the ball out to one of three players parked at the three point line, or run and pull up at the three point line and jack up a shot.

[And1AllDay]

Showtime and The Man summed everything up perfectly. It's to the point that you know every team in the runs the same damn offense--drive the lane and lay it up/dunk it, or kick the ball out to one of three players parked at the three point line, or run and pull up at the three point line and jack up a shot.

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[TheMan]

Showtime and The Man summed everything up perfectly. It's to the point that you know every team in the runs the same damn offense--drive the lane and lay it up/dunk it, or kick the ball out to one of three players parked at the three point line, or run and pull up at the three point line and jack up a shot.
The game has seriously been dumbed down...perfect for the millennials who are probably the dumbest generation to come down the pike :lol

You can't believe how many times I've watched a playoff game and see stupid ISO ball leading to a low IQ/low percentage 3 point heave, like really? Back in the day, the coach would pull a player for taking stupid shots like that but that has become the norm when in the very next possession, the opposing team takes a similarly stupid shot :lol

For fukks sake, run a play, pass the ball and create a high percentage shot near the rim you moron, stop taking so many long range shots :facepalm

[TheCorporation]

The game has seriously been dumbed down...perfect for the millennials who are probably the dumbest generation to come down the pike :lol

You can't believe how many times I've watched a playoff game and see stupid ISO ball leading to a low IQ/low percentage 3 point heave, like really? Back in the day, the coach would pull a player for taking stupid shots like that but that has become the norm when in the very next possession, the opposing team takes a similarly stupid shot :lol

For fukks sake, run a play, pass the ball and create a high percentage shot near the rim you moron, stop taking so many long range shots :facepalm

Why are the Warriors doing so well then?

[superduper]

Why are the Warriors doing so well then?

Because they have a top 3 offensively impactful player of all time.

In no order:

MJ
Shaq
Steph

[sportjames23]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png


Free




of




Rent

[TheCorporation]

Free




of




Rent

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[NBAGOAT]

I specifically mentioned the 86 Celtics would crush these Warriors because those Celts had the GOAT frontcourt...who on the Warriors is gonna stop Bird, Parrish, McHale and Walton from scoring near the basket and picking up offensive rebounds when they miss? Draymond Green by himself? Lol.

Look, the Warriors have the perfect team for today's soft as marshmallow NBA but put these Warriors in the 80s under the rules back then and no way do they have the physicality to hang with those frontcourts, they would literally get mauled on the boards. You better make those 3 pointers at an insane clip because you ain't getting a second chance and the Celtics would almost score at will near the basket or grab second or third chances with offensive rebounds. It's no secret that the way to beat GSWs is by slowing down the game and being physical with them, (we saw this in 2016) under 80s rules, they don't stand a chance. And forget about getting fastbreak points since the Celtics wouldn't take a lot of long range shots leading to long rebounds (even if they could since Bird and Ainge were good 3pt shooters).

The rules changes is what has led to these Warriors success, good on them for taking advantage of it but they are a GOAT team strictly by today's soft offensive tilted rules...in no other era are they getting away with launching stupid 25 footers without paying a price for it on the other end of the court...add to it that those 86 Celtics weren't a low IQ team either, arguably the smartest team ever on top of that.

You know wat happens when teams focus too much on offensive rebounding? Even more fast breaks and open 3s in transition. It doesn’t matter that Celtics are going for post ups and floaters. If you send 3+ guys to crash the boards, you’re vulnerable in transition. Gs can definitely run with an 80s team. Teams now put a big emphasis on defensive rebounding and gs would do that. We’ve seen some teams try to go with size and crash the boards and they just don’t dominate gs there as much as you think even though they win the battle(think those Memphis teams).

I really think dray would guard some past bigs better than some think but mchale is the exception. Oh well they double him and/or force him to beat them by himself. Bird or mchale switching on to curry should be as big a problem if not worse. They would get away with shooting 3s more because defenses focused less on taking it away. There are quite a few teams in history who outperformed expectations/their talent because they took advantage of the inherent unfairness of the 3 pt line more than their opponents(89 Knicks mid 90s rockets to name some).

This is all a moo point anyway. Okay so they lose to maybe the goat team. I’m confident in the warriors chances vs everyone else but showtime. Physicality rules don’t change the fact that moving back a foot on a jumper gives you an extra point. People also overlook that even close to the baskets, post up scorers can be streaky

[tpols]

Your guys whole premise boils down to a childish argument...

Choir boy curry... When we saw a guy smaller on the very teams were comparing last forever...175 lb white dude. Jeff hornacek maybe 200 soaking wet at 6'7.

All of ding0s injury have been non contact... He has loose ligaments and damaged infrastructure in his left ankle and has turned it off cuts. Nothing to do with physicality. Its not like he's getting hit in the head or ribs and quitting.. Its non contact stuff.

I don't care how many caps or exclamation marks you use Showtime. Your argument is flimsy. It was shot down the second you lumped curry in with Westbrook and harden, and ignored that the dubs dimed more than the 86 celtics did.

As for theman... I know for a fact this guy was was a toddler in the mid 80s so its just comical to hear him reminisce on these older teams with such reverence.

Fact of the matter is you guys are right that a lot of teams have devolved and became chuckers and Isoballers but it just doesn't fit for the warriors.

Their playstyle and teamwork is all time dominant.

[Showtime80']

Good points tpols.

You know what it comes down to at the end of the day?!?! TALENT!!! Which I agree the Warriors have a lot of specially with their 7 man rotation and I do enjoy watching them more than anybody in the present NBA because they play to their strengths unlike the other 29 copycats who think they can pull off that style of play thus ruining the overall quality of the game.

In an All-time great team tournament nobody is destroying anybody consistently and the Warriors could probably hold their own just like all the other teams.

I would just never bet against MJ even if his teams don't stack up player for player with the other all-time teams. It reminds me of a line from the great Jefferson Kaye who narrated the Bulls 1991 championship video:

"The Lakers had experience and home court on their side, but the Bulls had Michael Jordan!"

[tpols]

all good man, all great teams should get their respect.

its so easy to hate on the up and comers i have myself.

and i wouldnt bet against jordan either. i dont think anybody would.

But if they played a handful of times id find it hard to believe we wouldnt see at least one dubs avalanche. And there's nothing that could be done about it if they popped off from 3.

[TheMan]

Why are the Warriors doing so well then?
Because in today's era they are the least dumbest :lol

Tallest midget

Edit; To be fair and not sound like a hater, Golden State can shoot, but that's stating the obvious :lol

[SpaceJam2]

Because in today's era they are the least dumbest :lol

Tallest midget

Edit; To be fair and not sound like a hater, Golden State can shoot, but that's stating the obvious :lol

Too late, tard

Warriors would cuck any team in NBA history. Jordan Bulls, Bird Celtics, GOOD BYE

[3ball]

Their playstyle and teamwork is all time dominant

.
The difference is that the bulls were dominant with or without the 3-point line because they were playing basketball

The Warriors are only dominant with the 3-point line because they play 3-pt contest

Remove the 3-pt line and any team from a prior era would SWEEP them

[SpaceJam2]

The difference is that the bulls were dominant with or without the 3-point line because they were playing basketball

The Warriors are only dominant with the 3-point line because they play 3-pt contest

Remove the 3-pt line and any team from a prior era would SWEEP them

Remove the 3-pt line?

How about remove Pippen and any team from a prior era would SWEEP the Bulls.

Because we saw it...1-9, three 1st rounds sweeps

[FireDavidKahn]

Guy should be in jail.

[tpols]

The difference is that the bulls were dominant with or without the 3-point line because they were playing basketball

The Warriors are only dominant with the 3-point line because they play 3-pt contest

Remove the 3-pt line and any team from a prior era would SWEEP them


Your argument would only hold water for hypotheticals where the Dubs faced squads who played without the 3pt line...

so all teams before 1979...

Wanna say Russell Celtics or Wilt Lakers or something would beat them, ok. But id still take curry and klays shooting deep over the midrange of those 60s guys who shot in the 30%'s lmao..

And anybody after 1979 played WITH the 3pt line, therefore it is an objective reality in any hypothetical between them ie ~ 80s celtics, 80s lakers, 90s bulls, 00s, lakers, etc would all be playing Golden State with a 3pt line.

You have to live with that and stop trolling.

[LAmbruh]

damn :lol

[Callystarr]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[Callystarr]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.

They were not.

They took a dip in his 36-40 years old days, but whose stats don't get worse when you are playing your 16th through 20th year in the NBA as a starter?

[Callystarr]

Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol



Nope, this was his toughest line of defense


https://i.postimg.cc/W30w2bkW/a3d65e33e8ee04301e241e0d2cd665c2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d3vmDPRq/ddace9d4be204c87f61848cf881c430e-jazz-players-nba-players.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



https://i.postimg.cc/8cHd6KwL/hqdefault.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



:oldlol:


Jeff Hornacek didn't play Jordan in defense although he is one of the deadliest shooters in NBA history.

John Stockton led the NBA in steals, Karl Malone is one of the only big men outside of Hakeem Olajuwon on the all time steals list, Greg Ostertag was always top 10 in blocks with limited minutes, and Bryon Russell was routinely in top 15 in steals. Jazz were fundamentally a great defensive team back then...

[Callystarr]

Would have been great in any era on any team. His only weakness was being too unselfish

exactly

[Callystarr]

Baby Kobe and Toddler Timmy being Jazz's playoff competetion



Shows how diluted the 90's and early 00's were :yaohappy:

Baby Kobe might have something there but Tim Duncan was putting up great stats from the beginning and they had David Robinson..

[Callystarr]

Of course they weren't.

'93 Knicks, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '92 Blazers are all better.

Lies....

Phoenix and Utah were the only teams to even have a shot at game 7 against the Bulls.

Utah was robbed of 5 repayable points in that final game, and I'm not even talking about the Bryon Russell/MJ foul.

Ron Harper had a 2 pointer get counted that should not have counted off the glass, and Howard Eisley 3 pointer prior to halftime was waive off even though replay showed it should have counted.

Utah was the Bulls toughest competition in those years.

Not to mention in the 90s, I believe Utah had the 2nd best record in the NBA.

[TheCorporation]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[Callystarr]

^^^

Did this dude really just say curry is dumbed down?

Golden state averages more assists, hockey assists, and total passes than the late 90s jazz.

Golden state makes them look dumb... just spamming PnRs.



That was almost as ignorant as 3balls "standstill" comment, when the dubs have more player movement than perhaps any team ever.

The NBA back then played defense and less total possessions.

[Callystarr]

the 98 team never should have won


Utah got robbed badly, refs apologized to them next year

There should have at least been a game 7 back in Utah.

As a Utah fan, I was stunned at the calls. In today's NBA, Utah would have gotten those points back because of instant replay.

[red1]

OG trash bros aka the REAL trash bros :applause:

[3ball]

Your argument would only hold water for hypotheticals where the Dubs faced squads who played without the 3pt line...


Nope.. it holds water for teams that simply didn't use the 3-point line much, so all teams in the 80's and 90's and 00's

[3ball]

John Stockton didn't become a start until the 87-88 season.

1988 - Lakers were playing prime basketball. Should be noted that John Stockton averaged 20 and 15 along with 3 steals per game in the playoffs that year.

1989 - John Stockton averaged 27/14 per game along with nearly 4 steals per game.

at this point I'm tired of going through the stat lines.

By the time Utah became a really good team, John Stockton and Karl Malone were OLD, and well past their prime. John Stockton was like 36 years old when they had their Finals runs, the condensed 1999 season which was their best chance to win a championship killed them - as they were massively fatigued by season end being the old players they were. I remember there being 8 back to back to back games back then.

To compare Delev to Stockton is just plain stupid. These legends ie. Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Isiah Thomas they know what they were asking about.

John Stockton is one of the 2 best point guards to EVER play this game championships or not.
Exactly... :applause:

Utah is 4-8 in the Finals against the most unbeatable Finals teams ever (6/6), while the kd-less Warriors are 8-10 against Le3/9 and a Canadian team

The Warriors Finals comp is the weakest ever, and is less than Utah's western conference foes that Utah swept (shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson's 56-win Spurs)

In short, Utah faced much tougher comp and a tougher league than the Warriors facing a "JV" conference in the Finals.. So Utah destroys the kd-less Warriors, like everyone else does

[scuzzy]

Nope.. it holds water for teams that simply didn't use the 3-point line much, so all teams in the 80's and 90's and 00's
considering how much 3p% shot up after the line was pushed closer in 95, that statement holds no weight

[3ball]

considering how much 3p% shot up after the line was pushed closer in 95, that statement holds no weight
It's no comparison to today, where teams shoot 3 times as many threes and view the shot totally differently, with night-and-day advanced spacing strategy

Take that away, or give prior eras the same strategy, and prior eras crush today's era because they were far better at 2-point shot-making.. and 2-pointers are still the majority of the shots taken in today's game (more than half) - but still far less than prior eras obviously, and today's two's are more open from spacing and threes/layups strategy

Essentially, previous eras could mimic today's spacing strategy and 3-point volume, while also being far better when the threes/layups strategy breaks down because: "the deeper a team gets in the 24-second shot clock, the more difficult it becomes for that team to find layup and three-point opportunities, and the ability to knock down the mid-range jumper thus becomes king" (nylon calculus (https://the-cauldron.com/lost-art-the-mid-range-jumper-64b64fa0f081))..

So previous eras could replicate today's 3-point volume and strategy, while destroying today's era at 2-point shot-making.

[TheCorporation]

So hol up

MJ's BEST Finals competition was The Original Trash Bro's?

[LAmbruh]

So hol up

MJ's BEST Finals competition was The Original Trash Bro's?
Indeed it was

[Round Mound]

They wheren't as dynamic as the Jordan and Pippen duo but they where definetly THEE BEST OFFENSIVE DUO ever. There is a reason why Gary Payton says Stockton was the hardest player to guard because with Stock you had to guard him and HIS VISION on a Full Court. And Malone was the best PF 95-96 till Duncan arrived. Shaq was getting murdered by these dudes in the late 90's even with these dudes past their primes...

[LoneyROY7]

Jesus.

MJ's competition just gets more pathetic the deeper you look.

[LAmbruh]

Jesus.

MJ's competition just gets more pathetic the deeper you look.


You gotta give credit to Stern, he did a HELLUVA job marketing such a watered down league during that time

NBA Jam also, they made 80's babies like me think their were three HOF's on every team :lol :hammerhead:

We just didn't know any better, when your little everything seems big and amazing

"be like Mike" propaganda was all we heard

[NBAGOAT]

They wheren't as dynamic as the Jordan and Pippen duo but they where definetly THEE BEST OFFENSIVE DUO ever. There is a reason why Gary Payton says Stockton was the hardest player to guard because with Stock you had to guard him and HIS VISION on a Full Court. And Malone was the best PF 95-96 till Duncan arrived. Shaq was getting murdered by these dudes in the late 90's even with these dudes past their primes...

true but even still shaq/penny from the same era is a better offensive duo than malone/stockton. Best offensive duo ever is crazy with shaq/kobe magic/kareem etc out there

[keep-itreal]

MJ played against part time mechanics and grocery baggers :roll:

[LAmbruh]

MJ played against part time mechanics and grocery baggers :roll:
you can't make this shit up :roll: :roll:

[TheMan]

MJ played against part time mechanics and grocery baggers :roll:
Today's NBA's MVP was literally a street vendor :roll:

[LAmbruh]

Funny how cats like Westbrooks, Harden, CP3 get mauled by media and fans for their playoff shortcoming when a far worse Stockton and his lack of hardware alongside Malone are fairy tailed as 90's behemoths :oldlol:

[egokiller]

Wheels created a Stockton and Malone thread to cope with the missing feeling of not having witnessed GOAT Jordan. Tears taste so good! :applause:

[Round Mound]

NBA legends give their opinion on John Stockton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4lYjpDLYk

[Rico2016]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[DoctorP]

Put Durant on those Jazz teams and MJ is dust.

[TheCorporation]

Put Durant on those Jazz teams and MJ is dust.

Hell, puut KD on the Blazers and MJ is dust

Put KD on the Celtics and, oh wait...
Put KD on the Pistons and, oh wait...

[DoctorP]

Hell, puut KD on the Blazers and MJ is dust

Put KD on the Celtics and, oh wait...
Put KD on the Pistons and, oh wait...


yeh, but this thread is about the "original trash bros"

[And1AllDay]

Mikes best win is Derozan Lowry Toronto Raptors

[SpaceJam2]

So this was MJs best ring right?

Basically DeMar + Lowry Raptors?

[LAmbruh]

Lowry got his chip, but the legendary great John Stockton still doesn't



OG Trash Bros :yaohappy:

[SpaceJam2]

Lowry got his chip, but the legendary great John Stockton still doesn't



OG Trash Bros :yaohappy:


Crazy to think the Trash Bros was MJ's best ring...

Imagine being a Bron fan and his best ring was facing DeMar and Lowry in the Finals...Yikes

[elementally morale]

John Stockton would easily be the best PG today. He is most definitely a top 3 PG ever. I'd say top 2.

Karl Malone would be a top 3 PF today. Peak Malone would be a top 2 PF today.

Jeff Hornacek, if trained and coached today would shoot 45%+ from 3. Also, he was a lot tougher than he looks on some pictures.


Jerry Sloan would probably be the best coach today.


The mid to late 90's Utah Jazz team would be a top contender today.

Good night.

[tontoz]

Stockton/Malone made the Finals twice and took the Bulls to 6 games twice.

Being 2 wins away from a title in back to back years is hardly trash.

[SpaceJam2]

John Stockton would easily be the best PG today. He is most definitely a top 3 PG ever. I'd say top 2.

Karl Malone would be a top 3 PF today. Peak Malone would be a top 2 PF today.

Jeff Hornacek, if trained and coached today would shoot 45%+ from 3. Also, he was a lot tougher than he looks on some pictures.


Jerry Sloan would probably be the best coach today.


The mid to late 90's Utah Jazz team would be a top contender today.

Good night.

The same Jazz that had a Stockton + Malone pairing for 20 years and made 2 Finals and 0 rings? :lol

They were basically a modern day Clippers


CP3 > Stockton
Griffin < Malone
Deandre > Ostertag
Crawford > Hornacek

Goodnight

[scuzzy]

Stockton/Malone made the Finals twice and took the Bulls to 6 games twice.

Being 2 wins away from a title in back to back years is hardly trash.


If CP3 and Blake duo'd in 17 playoff appearances and only sniffed a Finals twice with 10 first round exits

They would get eating up by todays standard of fans unquestionably

perfect example: Harden every year

[tontoz]

The same Jazz that had a Stockton + Malone pairing for 20 years and made 2 Finals and 0 rings? :lol

They were basically a modern day Clippers


CP3 > Stockton
Griffin < Malone
Deandre > Ostertag
Crawford > Hornacek

Goodnight


Umm, no. Stockton and Malone actually showed up to play. Stockton played 82 games in 16 seasons. Malone did it 10 times and played 81 games 5 times.

They weren't constantly hurt like CP3/Blake, who never even made it to the WCF.

[red1]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/XG14qInv52c4ZKGRsU/giphy.gif
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MPEAAOSwAj9dsYLx/s-l640.jpg

[tontoz]

If CP3 and Blake duo'd in 17 playoff appearances and only sniffed a Finals twice with 10 first round exits

They would get eating up by todays standard of fans unquestionably

perfect example: Harden every year


It isn't easy to fill out a team in Utah. Do you think free agents wanted to go to SLC?

The fans there had a reputation for taunting black players, and SLC isn't known for good weather or nightlife.

[And1AllDay]

stockton 85 to 03
malone 86 to 03

19 years
9 1st round exits :oldlol:
2 finals appearances
0 rings
what

mikes best ring is a 9x 1st round exit duo?

[Round Mound]

The disrespect that Malone and Stockton are getting is stupidly inmense. They where the best offensive duo ever.

[KD7]

John Stockton would easily be the best PG today. He is most definitely a top 3 PG ever. I'd say top 2.

Better than Curry?

[Horatio33]

^^ none of those traffic cones would even be starters in today's positionless game


they'd be sucking wind trying to run up n down the court and completely winded closing out athletic 6'9 shooters

Mate, if you

[Round Mound]

Both Malone and Stockton where schooling most of the prime players at ages 38-39-40. In their primes they where the best offensive duo and connection the NBA had on offense. They where also fine defenders. They just lacked a bit of versatility and a more explosive better 3rd option. Both Top 5 All Time PFs and PGs...

[LeCroix]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

Have we solved this yet

Michales best opponent????

[Rico2016]

Lowry with that ring now. Bling game

[Duncan21formvp]

Have we solved this yet

Michales best opponent????

Beat three champions in the same playoffs and 4 top 10 players all time in the same playoffs and 7 top 25 players in the same playoffs.

Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler, Duncan/Robinson, Shaq/Kobe

[Rico2016]

Imagine MJ getting met at the perimeter by Tony Allen/Pierce/Posey only to be met at the rim by KG and Perk :lol



Nope, this was his toughest line of defense


https://i.postimg.cc/W30w2bkW/a3d65e33e8ee04301e241e0d2cd665c2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d3vmDPRq/ddace9d4be204c87f61848cf881c430e-jazz-players-nba-players.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/8cHd6KwL/hqdefault.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



:oldlol:

Wow

[Shooter]

Make sure this gets posted:

Karl Malone WS/48 by season
(reg season vs playoffs):
.......RS..•..PO
86: .036 • .071
87: .116 • .052
88: .152 • .094
89: .233 • .140
90: .245 • .107
91: .225 • .154
92: .237 • .220
93: .238 • .085
94: .193 • .209
95: .212 • .116
96: .233 • .171
97: .268 • .127
98: .259 • .184
99: .252 • .135
00: .249 • .194
01: .217 • .048
02: .155 • .094
03: .182 • -.014 (not a typo)
04: .151 • .079

[Round Mound]

Why so much hate for Stockton and Malone? :confusedshrug:

[pandiani17]

Both Malone and Stockton where schooling most of the prime players at ages 38-39-40. In their primes they where the best offensive duo and connection the NBA had on offense. They where also fine defenders. They just lacked a bit of versatility and a more explosive better 3rd option. Both Top 5 All Time PFs and PGs...

I have Karl Malone in the Top 6 PF of all-time, along with Elvin Hayes, Barkley, TD, KG and Dirk, in no order. I don't have the best PG's ranked, though, but everybody should respect Sotckton's achievement and longevity,he would be,at least,in the Top 10. Crazy to see how people call them "The Trash Bro"'s.

[NBAGOAT]

I have Karl Malone in the Top 6 PF of all-time, along with Elvin Hayes, Barkley, TD, KG and Dirk, in no order. I don't have the best PG's ranked, though, but everybody should respect Sotckton's achievement and longevity,he would be,at least,in the Top 10. Crazy to see how people call them "The Trash Bro"'s.

Who the hell has elvin Hayes over Malone. Also Stockton is easily top 10, he’s in most top 5 for pg lists. I don’t like either particularly much either, think they’re a bit overrated too.

[GimmeThat]

if trash bros mean they got real estates based on the area of the franchise that drafted them, and those prices are locked in, sure.

if not, their earnings/production and lack of rings would have to equate to owners by networth, unfortunately owning a basketball team isn't necessarily a full time position for most, and that's a piece of pie that needs to be shared.

[Reggie43]

Funny how they get scrutinized just because they made the Finals twice...

[pandiani17]

Who the hell has elvin Hayes over Malone. Also Stockton is easily top 10, he’s in most top 5 for pg lists. I don’t like either particularly much either, think they’re a bit overrated too.

I don't have Hayes over Malone, I have them in the same tier, with the other four players I mentioned.

[Shooter]

Why so much hate for Stockton and Malone? :confusedshrug:

Because people tried to hate on Lebron's competition in the East without realizing that MJ's only decent competition was a master choke artist duo and the Original Trash Bros.

[Lebron23]

Blazers beating the Jazz in the semis was a huge upset. Isaiah Rider was owning the Jazz in that series.too bad he disappeared in the conference finals. Many fans expected Utah to win the championship in 1999 after the Bulls disbanded, but they once again failed.

[And1AllDay]

was this mikes best competition?


:roll::oldlol:

[Shooter]

was this mikes best competition?


:roll::oldlol:

Sadly...yes


This was his best ring, or so I've heard :lol :lol

[And1AllDay]

was this mikes best ring? :oldlol:

ah yes the original trash bros

stockton y malone


thanks for reminding me to bump it

[Spurs m8]

was this mikes best ring? :oldlol:

ah yes the original trash bros

stockton y malone


thanks for reminding me to bump it

You seem a bit triggered by Jordan lately bro, especially today.

Don't worry, your boy is widely recognised as top 10...you'll be fine.

There's also a big world out there, try it sometime, instead of spending your life obsessed with a grown man that doesn't know you exist.

[TheCorporation]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

Imagine this being the best competition you faced in your entire career :lol IMAGINE IT.

That's Mike's reality

[Taurus]

Malone deserves to be called trash just for being a pedo

[Jasper]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

not enough appreciation of 18 straight playoff appearances in the weak west.

[ELITEpower23]

not enough appreciation of 18 straight playoff appearances in the weak west.

9 first round Mikey exits tho

[000]

Only kinda shuffle Malone could do was this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCYZ3pks48

[Jasper]

9 first round Mikey exits tho

how many teams don't make the playoff's in 9 years ??? (dump fvck)

[ELITEpower23]

how many teams don't make the playoff's in 9 years ??? (dump fvck)

Take your meds Grandpa, Jordan's still top 10

[Lebron23]

stockton's playoff stats are lowkey just bad. Malone gets way too much of the blame for underachieving. Tbf, stockton did play better in 97 which was a Finals run.

Very true

Stockton choked in the 1998 NBA Finals.

[Full Court]

Labrone and Westbrook might be the trashiest trash bros of all time. Except for maybe Westbrook and Harden.

[ELITEpower23]

was this mikes best ring? :oldlol:

ah yes the original trash bros

stockton y malone


thanks for reminding me to bump it

IT'S OVER :oldlol:

BRING AND1 BACK

[Baller789]

IT'S OVER :oldlol:

BRING AND1 BACK

You mean you forgot your password?

[Spurs m8]

But Malone is 2nd on all time scoring list...apparently the scoring all time list is very important to bron stans...

So Malone must have been awesome

[ELITEpower23]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

Jesus...

[Full Court]

But Malone is 2nd on all time scoring list...apparently the scoring all time list is very important to bron stans...

So Malone must have been awesome

Lol yep! And Malone scored all his points in 19 seasons. So if Labrone in his 19th season is behind Malone, then obviously Karl Malone>>>>Labrone.

[Baller789]

Lol yep! And Malone scored all his points in 19 seasons. So if Labrone in his 19th season is behind Malone, then obviously Karl Malone>>>>Labrone.

Apparently PEDron stans only know how to add so they can only use totals as reference.

[Full Court]

Apparently PEDron stans only know how to add so they can only use totals as reference.

I'm telling you, if they ever figure out how to divide, WATCH OUT!

[Baller789]

I'm telling you, if they ever figure out how to divide, WATCH OUT!

Damn.

I seriously doubt they have the brain power tho.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is going to surpass Karl Malone in scoring by the end of this season barring any injuries. Malone played 1476 games while Lebron at 1330 games.

[Baller789]

Lebron is going to surpass Karl Malone in scoring by the end of this season barring any injuries. Malone played 1476 games while Lebron at 1330 games.

Congratulations on the longevity achievement.

[Lebron23]

Congratulations on the longevity achievement.

Not his fault Jordan was an above average player by his 15th season.

[HoopsNY]

Not his fault Jordan was an above average player by his 15th season.

"Above average" lol. You're such a hater bro.

[Lebron23]

"Above average" lol. You're such a hater bro.

20 ppg. I think if Jordan have any motivations he should have sign with the Baby Bulls in 2004.

[Baller789]

Not his fault Jordan was an above average player by his 15th season.

I complimented Lebron.

Still youre salty AF.

:roll:

[HoopsNY]

20 ppg. I think if Jordan have any motivations he should have sign with the Baby Bulls in 2004.

20/6/4/2 on 45% isn't "above average." Your average player in the NBA has never been a run of the mill 20/5/5 guy on decent efficiency. Stop the cap and the stanning bro.

[3ba11]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros


^^^^ that's exactly what Lebron's career looked like before he formed super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverrson, Kidd, Dwight).

Surely Malone/Stockton would have chips if they had an extra all-star teammate (big 3 super-team) like Lebron had

[Full Court]

20 ppg. I think if Jordan have any motivations he should have sign with the Baby Bulls in 2004.

Was Jordan better or worse than -86 in the finals? Genuinely curious.

[Shooter]

Malone deserves to be called trash just for being a pedo

+1

[Iverson3]

Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros
Damn

[John8204]

Boy I would sure love to have a team that makes playoff runs for 18 straight seasons, makes the conference finals and finals five times.

Also what does this say about Shaq who only won a single game against them out of nine

[Gotterdammerung]

Had to scroll up just to make sure I wasn't repeating myself on an old thread from 2019.

But yeah, the Jazz were consistent, but they always choked in the playoffs.

I noticed that they only finally broke through the Western Conference once every other powerhouse team declined:
Portland Trailblazers
San Antonio Spurs
Seattle Supersonics
Houston Rockets
Phoenix Suns

The Jazz just could not get through any of them once they established themselves as a power in the West after that 7 game series vs the championship Lakers in the 1988 playoffs. Stockton-to-Malone was established in the national lexicon after that year. Everyone thought they were the next dynasty. But what happened?

1989. Division champs. Got swept by the Warriors 0-3 in the first round.
1990. Win 55 games, 2nd in division. Lost to the Suns in the first round, 2-3.
1991. Win 54 games, 2nd in division. Made it to the semifinals, lost to the Portland Trailblazers, 1-4.
1992. Win 55 games, 1st in division. Advanced to the conference finals, but lost to the Blazers again, 2-4.
1993. Fell to 3rd in division, lost to the Supersonics 2-3 in the first round.
1994. Still 3rd in midwest, lost to the Houston Rockets in the conference finals, 1-4.
1995. Win 60 games, lost to the Houston Rockets 2-3 in the first round.
1996. 2nd in division, lost to the Supersonics in a 7 game deathmatch. Karl Malone forgot how to hit a free throw.
1997. Finally broke through, beating an old and slow Houston Rockets in the conference finals, 4-2. Lost to the Bulls.
1998. Lost to the Bulls again.
1999. Lost to the Trailblazers in the semifinals.
2000. Lost to the Trailblazers in the semis again, 1-4.
2001. Lost to the Mavericks in 5 in the first round. Steve Nash ate John Stockton's lunch.
2002. Lost to the Sacramento Kings in the first round.
2003. Lost to the Kings in the first round again.

And then never was heard of again.
:durantunimpressed: