IS Kawhi the new IMPROVED MJ?

[NBASTATMAN]

Kawhi has better range,
Kawhi is a good deal bigger than MJ
Kawhi is guarding guys much bigger and better than MJ ever guarded

MJ was a better passer


Is KAWHI the new improved MJ or just a taller less talented version of MJ? :confusedshrug:

BOTH AMAZING PLAYERS

[MrFonzworth]

Is OP a fakkit?

The answer is yes.

[Vino24]

Kawhi is a much better 3pt shooter and defender

[Im so nba'd out]

MJ could never win outside of a system like Kawhi...He would of fell flat on his face and got 1st rounded by Orlando.

The "Jordan System" didnt win games...it just produced empty stats like Kobe without Phil and TMAC


at least ppl like harden/lebron/derozan/ect ect ect... can make it out of the 1st round consistently without a system

[NBASTATMAN]

Is OP MY DADDY?

The answer is yes.


Tell your mama Im not coming home tonight .. :roll:

[tontoz]

The funny thing is that they are opposites in a way. MJ was a natural. He came into the league lighting it up. He didn't work on his game in the offseason or work out at all as a young player. He was also pretty emotional.

Kawhi has totally made himself into a great player. He isn't intuitive at all. You can almost see him thinking things through before he makes a move. Rarely shows any emotion, a bball terminator.

[NBASTATMAN]

The funny thing is that they are opposites in a way. MJ was a natural. He came into the league lighting it up. He didn't work on his game in the offseason or work out at all as a young player. He was also pretty emotional.

Kawhi has totally made himself into a great player. He isn't intuitive at all. You can almost see him thinking things through before he makes a move. Rarely shows any emotion, a bball terminator.


But they play very similar games.. Kawhi is darn efficient like MJ too.. :bowdown:

[Artillery]

MJ's athleticism was a tier above Kawhi. Leonard's a decent enough athlete but his freakish wingspan and hand size is what evens the playing field. His combine numbers, for example, were nothing eye popping...worse than Harden's actually.

[SpaceJam2]

MJ's athleticism was a tier above Kawhi. Leonard's a decent enough athlete but his freakish wingspan and hand size is what evens the playing field. His combine numbers, for example, were nothing eye popping...worse than Harden's actually.

MJ cant shoot though, has no range.

[3ball]

MJ was better at every aspect of the game, especially scoring and passing, so no

[I.R.Beast]

Yes he is. Me and My Boys call him Stiff Jordan. a little less graceful but the impact is all there. Hr's become an elite scorer as well.

[tpols]

he doesnt have jordans agility or quickness at all.

[SpaceJam2]

MJ was better at every aspect of the game, especially scoring and passing, so no

He was a better passer, thats it

Free throws Kawhi
Scoring Kawhi/Jordan tie
Rebounding Kawhi
3 point shooting Kawhi
Defense Kawhi

Dunks Jordan

[I.R.Beast]

Leonard is more than a decent athlete he's a high level athlete.

[3ball]

He was a better passer, thats it

Free throws Kawhi
Scoring Kawhi/Jordan tie
Rebounding Kawhi
3 point shooting Kawhi
Defense Kawhi

Dunks Jordan
MJ was a better shooter despite not taking many threes

If he decided to make his 3-point shot goat, it would be like his mid-range and fadeaway.. flawless form.. a beautiful jumpshot

MJ was better at guarding guards and Kawhi forwards

And MJ was the vastly superior scorer and passer

And MJ averaged 8 rebounds in the 1997 playoffs when it was harder to get rebounds for perimeter players.. MJ probably averages 10;rebs today like westie

Maybe Kawhi has ft's

[Gunslinger]

Floor Pippen, ceiling Jordan.

:applause:

[3ball]

Kawhi is showing that MJ would make the Finals every year without a superstar teammate in this East

[NBASTATMAN]

MJ was better at every aspect of the game, especially scoring and passing, so no


i will give you passing but MJ's jumper wasnt better than Kawhi'S.. Especially long range.. Not even close

[NBASTATMAN]

Kawhi is showing that MJ would make the Finals every year without a superstar teammate in this East


MJ never went to an NBA finals with a team that went 0-8 in a season without him.. LEBRON WON A TITLE THAT YEAR.. :bowdown:

Toronto went 17-5 without Kawhi but Bulls almost won 60 games with MJ..

MJ PLAYED on better teams..

[NBASTATMAN]

He was a better passer, thats it

Free throws Kawhi
Scoring Kawhi/Jordan tie
Rebounding Kawhi
3 point shooting Kawhi
Defense Kawhi

Dunks Jordan


MJ had better footwork as well.. But KAWHI is stronger and longer.. That gives Him quite the advantage..

[And1AllDay]

MJ never went to an NBA finals with a team that went 0-8 in a season without him.. LEBRON WON A TITLE THAT YEAR.. :bowdown:

Toronto went 17-5 without Kawhi but Bulls almost won 60 games with MJ..

MJ PLAYED on better teams..


Issa bloodbath

[NBASTATMAN]

Issa bloodbath


LEBRON beat Kawhi, DUNCAN, kd, Steph,

All players that may wind up top 10-12


best player MJ beat was an OLD MAGIC.. Who was possibly already sick..

He never beat any great team in their best days. Meanwhile Bron beat the GREATEST TEAM EVER

[And1AllDay]

LEBRON beat Kawhi, DUNCAN, kd, Steph,

All players that may wind up top 10-12


best player MJ beat was an OLD MAGIC.. Who was possibly already sick..

He never beat any great team in their best days. Meanwhile Bron beat the GREATEST TEAM EVER

Mike beat Magic on his last year with a injured Worthy

He only beat up the HIV Magic

[NBASTATMAN]

Mike beat Magic on his last year with a injured Worthy

He only beat up the HIV Magic


Yep WORTHY was hurt.. Shit Pippen and PETE Myers probably beat that Lakers team with an old MAGIC and INJURED WORTHY

[3ball]

Mike beat Magic on his last year with a injured Worthy

He only beat up the HIV Magic
Magic was runner up for league MVP in 1991

Worthy played 40 mpg in the Finals and led the Lakers with 19 on 47%, just like the regular season

Now carry on with your bullshit

[3ball]

.
Midrange Regular Season



Kawhi 2019 (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) - 152/331.... 45.9%
MJMI 1997' (https://stats.nba.com/player/893/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) - 588/1202.. 48.9%




i will give you passing but MJ's jumper wasnt better than Kawhi'S.. Especially long range.. Not even close
MJ's mid-range jumper was far better than Kawhi - the stats show that pretty clearly - MJ shot better on 4 times the volume - see the stats above

And his 3-pt shot was better too, but he "didn't want to excel at it" because he thought it hurt the rest of his game

But he still excelled when it mattered - 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals and 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs....

And he excelled anytime he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 attempts every year, except 2 years where he attempted 3+ (90' and 93') and shot 38% and 35%

[And1AllDay]

Magic was runner up for league MVP in 1991

Worthy played 40 mpg in the Finals and led the Lakers with 19 on 47%, just like the regular season

Now carry on with your bullshit

Magic didnt leave the league after 91 with aids?
Worthy didnt get hurt in 91 Finals and miss games?

Lets see how far you try to lie

[warriorfan]

MJ could never win outside of a system like Kawhi...He would of fell flat on his face and got 1st rounded by Orlando.

The "Jordan System" didnt win games...it just produced empty stats like Kobe without Phil and TMAC


at least ppl like harden/lebron/derozan/ect ect ect... can make it out of the 1st round consistently without a system

Oh shit

[And1AllDay]

MJ could never win outside of a system like Kawhi...He would of fell flat on his face and got 1st rounded by Orlando.

The "Jordan System" didnt win games...it just produced empty stats like Kobe without Phil and TMAC


at least ppl like harden/lebron/derozan/ect ect ect... can make it out of the 1st round consistently without a system
:eek: :eek: :eek:

The MJ system is 1-9

[3ball]

Oh shit
Except MJ was without a system when he took a 6 seed to the ECF and was the only team to win 2 games from the champion Pistons in 89'

I know ur nervous that the local paperboy Curry might fall flat in the Finals again without Durant to protect him, but relax.. Kawhi won't hurt em too bad.. now if it were MJ, it's over in the Finals.. you know that.. curry would be chicken curry for MJ

[sdot_thadon]

Kawhi is like MJ with Duncan's brain.

[FromDowntown]

How could someone be an improved version of Jordan?

[warriorfan]

How could someone be an improved version of Jordan?

By not killing his father

[3ball]

.

Kawhi'. 2019. ECF:. 30.4.. 8.0.. 3.8.. 44.9%

MJ Playoff Career:. 33.5.. 6.0.. 5.7.. 48.7%


So Kawhi is proving that a lesser version of MJ can make Finals easily and be the best player in the league

Although Kobe already showed that so nothing new

Basically, everyone's best is MJ's standard
.

[NBASTATMAN]

.

Kawhi'. 2019. ECF:. 30.4.. 8.0.. 3.8.. 44.9%

MJ Playoff Career:. 33.5.. 6.0.. 5.7.. 48.7%


So Kawhi is proving that a lesser version of MJ can make Finals easily and be the best player in the league

Although Kobe already showed that so nothing new

Basically, everyone's best is MJ's standard
.

KAWHI is shooting way more threes though.. His team didnt win 55 games without him.. They could probably win 50 though.. Still Pippen was hurt that season if not they would have won 60 games without MJ..

[paksat]

Improved?

you can't improve on a finished state of the art product

[NBASTATMAN]

Improved?

you can't improve on a finished state of the art product


Kawhi is def a better three point shooter than MJ.. Not even close if you ask me.. I watched every single playoff game MJ played after 1990.. He wasnt as good as KAWHI from long range.. Matter of fact only KD is on KAWHI level in terms of long range shooting and being a superstar ALL AROUND PLAYER..

[superduper]

Kawhi is def a better three point shooter than MJ.. Not even close if you ask me.. I watched every single playoff game MJ played after 1990.. He wasnt as good as KAWHI from long range.. Matter of fact only KD is on KAWHI level in terms of long range shooting and being a superstar ALL AROUND PLAYER..

MJ not being a good 3pt shooter should not be held against him. Actually let me reword that, MJ not being as good of a 3pt shooter as people in this era should not be held against him. How are people making comparisons of 3pt skill between an era that took literally 6x as less 3pters compared to this era. How are people comparing between an era that literally thought the 3pt shot was the worst shot in basketball compared to an era that centers their entire offensive game plan around the 3pt shot. Makes absolutely no sense.

[Hey Yo]

Kawhi has better range,
Kawhi is a good deal bigger than MJ
Kawhi is guarding guys much bigger and better than MJ ever guarded

MJ was a better passer


Is KAWHI the new improved MJ or just a taller less talented version of MJ? :confusedshrug:

BOTH AMAZING PLAYERS
Both quit on their teams in their prime

[NBASTATMAN]

MJ not being a good 3pt shooter should not be held against him. Actually let me reword that, MJ not being as good of a 3pt shooter as people in this era should not be held against him. How are people making comparisons of 3pt skill between an era that took literally 6x as less 3pters compared to this era. How are people comparing between an era that literally thought the 3pt shot was the worst shot in basketball compared to an era that centers their entire offensive game plan around the 3pt shot. Makes absolutely no sense.


I can see where you are coming from.. But there were some guys in the league that used the three pointer to help their teams be better. REGGIE MILLER was doing this .. MJ should have tried to get better as well.. And he did get better but he was mostly better with the short three point shot.. Im on record saying he has the best midrange shot ever.. From 22 ft and inside of that range he was the best IVE SEEN.. But the longer shot was not for him.. KAWHI is nailing that shot which makes him even tougher to guard..

[3ball]

I can see where you are coming from.. But there were some guys in the league that used the three pointer to help their teams be better. REGGIE MILLER was doing this .. MJ should have tried to get better as well.. And he did get better but he was mostly better with the short three point shot.. Im on record saying he has the best midrange shot ever.. From 22 ft and inside of that range he was the best IVE SEEN.. But the longer shot was not for him.. KAWHI is nailing that shot which makes him even tougher to guard..
MJ was having more success than anyone in the modern era, so he didn't need to do anything

The 3-pt shot wasn't thought to improve teams, so why would he adopt it when he was already winning rings?

Finally, MJ was good at threes anytime it mattered - he shot 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals and 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs... And he was good anytime he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 every year except 90' and 93' when he took 3+ attempts at 38% and 35%... Ultimately, his 3-point shot would've been goat like his mid-range and fadeaway if he thought it would help him win more

but let me know when Kawhi hits 6 threes in a half of a Finals game; he's never shot that well in his life.. and don't give me bullshit about MJ being open - today's spacing strategy gives today's players open looks - 89% of today's threes are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "wide open" (6+ feet)... This figure is 78% (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) for Kawhi and 80% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13681661&postcount=41) for Curry - so today's spacing strategy allows mostly open threes and MJ would go bananas from deep today..

[NBASTATMAN]

MJ was having more success than anyone in the modern era, so he didn't need to do anything

The 3-pt shot wasn't thought to improve teams, so why would he adopt it when he was already winning rings?

Finally, MJ was good at threes anytime it mattered - he shot 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals and 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs... And he was good anytime he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 every year except 90' and 93' when he took 3+ attempts at 38% and 35%... Ultimately, his 3-point shot would've been goat like his mid-range and fadeaway if he thought it would help him win more

but let me know when Kawhi hits 6 threes in a half of a Finals game; he's never shot that well in his life.. and don't give me bullshit about MJ being open - today's spacing strategy gives today's players open looks - 89% of today's threes are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "wide open" (6+ feet)... This figure is 78% (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) for Kawhi and 80% (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13681661&postcount=41) for Curry - so today's spacing strategy allows mostly open threes and MJ would go bananas from deep today..
:facepalm

MJ SUCCESS began when iSIAHH THOMAS was injuired and THE GREAT TEAMS OF THE 80'S all got old..

PARISH SAID THAT HIMSELF.. MJ had another superstar playing with him that led the BULLS TO 55 WINS..

Meanwhile he was playing vs teams that didnt have that second superstar player .. Besides UTAH what team had two superstars .. NONE..

And no team had a player as goood as PIPPEN AS THEIR SECOND BEST PLAYER..

[Stephonit]

Make no mistake Kawhi is a very very good player but we're talking about MJ here.

The difference I notice is this: If you give Jordan the ball and say "go out there and score" you seriously consider him dropping 60 as a possibility.

Kawhi was being given carte blanche to score in that way in some of these recent playoffs games and his limit at least so far seems to be in the 40s. We'll see if he can do even more but as things stand MJ has still shown more.

[Leviathon1121]

:facepalm

MJ SUCCESS began when iSIAHH THOMAS was injuired and THE GREAT TEAMS OF THE 80'S all got old..

PARISH SAID THAT HIMSELF.. MJ had another superstar playing with him that led the BULLS TO 55 WINS..

Meanwhile he was playing vs teams that didnt have that second superstar player .. Besides UTAH what team had two superstars .. NONE..

And no team had a player as goood as PIPPEN AS THEIR SECOND BEST PLAYER..
Jordan won two titles without a single all star.

[tontoz]

.

Kawhi'. 2019. ECF:. 30.4.. 8.0.. 3.8.. 44.9%

MJ Playoff Career:. 33.5.. 6.0.. 5.7.. 48.7%


So Kawhi is proving that a lesser version of MJ can make Finals easily and be the best player in the league

Although Kobe already showed that so nothing new

Basically, everyone's best is MJ's standard
.


FG% is an archaic stat.

For his career MJ's playoff TS is 57%. Kawhi's TS in this year's playoffs is 63%.

[NBASTATMAN]

Jordan won two titles without a single all star.
:facepalm

[NBASTATMAN]

FG% is an archaic stat.

For his career MJ's playoff TS is 57%. Kawhi's TS in this year's playoffs is 63%.


kawhi is even more efficient than MJ.. :bowdown:

[MJistheGOAT]

I think he is somewhat similar to 2nd 3-peat MJ with better 3pt shooting (era-dependant) and less mid-range/post up game.

1st 3 peat MJ ... nah, he is the GOAT.

[3ball]

MJ SUCCESS began when iSIAHH THOMAS was injuired and THE GREAT TEAMS OF THE 80'S all got old..

And no team had a player as goood as PIPPEN AS THEIR SECOND BEST PLAYER..


Isiah, Dumars and Rodman were 29/27/28 years old when MJ beat them in 1991..

Otoh, kg/pierce/allen were 34/32/35 when lebron finally beat them, and Duncan/Parker/Ginobili were 36/31/35 when lebron finally beat them

And Pippen averaged 17 on 40.8% in the 96-98' playoffs - many 2nd options outplayed him, too many to name

He had MANY series where he literally averaged 15 ppg on 33%, 34%, 36%... again, many series like this.. Pippen was also horrible in the 88-90' playoffs, so he was only good for 3 years alongside Mike (91-93')





MJ had another superstar playing with him that led the BULLS TO 55 WINS..


Lebron's teammates play bad with or without him because he reduces everyone to spot-up shooters - weak teams let 1 guy dribble most of the time, so the team collapses without that guy.. Otoh, dynasty teams play great basketball with or without their star because they move the ball instead of having 1 guy dribble it all the time

You don't seem to understand that similar to other ball-dominators like Westbrook and Harden, lebron's teams play bad basketball.... people simply ignored it because he had super-teams that were winning the LEast every year..

Ultimately, you're forgetting the history - the bulls won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without mj's 33/8/8 in 1989.. that exact same lottery cast three-peated from 91-93', so the 94' Bulls weren't a talented cast and had simply developed the know-how, teamwork and goat brand required of all dynasties.
.

[Leviathon1121]

:facepalm
What, you LeBron stans don

[bullettooth]

What, you LeBron stans don’t like it when your own logic is used against you?

Bronsexuals are pretty stupid.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/68b68ffe49cbafbec92d1d231d6c39b1/tenor.gif

[sdot_thadon]

I think he is somewhat similar to 2nd 3-peat MJ with better 3pt shooting (era-dependant) and less mid-range/post up game.

1st 3 peat MJ ... nah, he is the GOAT.
So why would better 3 point shooting be classified as era dependent, but not mid range/post up?

[NBASTATMAN]

AFTER Today it is apparent that KAWHI has a better three point shot and is def a better handler of the ball than 96-98 MJ WAS..

:bowdown:

[NBASTATMAN]

Isiah, Dumars and Rodman were 29/27/28 years old when MJ beat them in 1991..



Ultimately, you're forgetting the history - the bulls won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without mj's 33/8/8 in 1989.. that exact same lottery cast three-peated from 91-93', so the 94' Bulls weren't a talented cast and had simply developed the know-how, teamwork and goat brand required of all dynasties.
.


ISIAH hurt his wrist and missed a good chunk of 1991.. MJ than beat STARks ad EWING. :roll:

The BULLS had lost HORACE grant THE ALL STAR IN 1995 and got mj BACK and lost. :roll:

[MJistheGOAT]

So why would better 3 point shooting be classified as era dependent, but not mid range/post up?

Good point, I give you that.
They would be more similar changing eras.
2nd 3 peat MJ, though.

[Phoenix]

AFTER Today it is apparent that KAWHI has a better three point shot

:bowdown:

No shit but it's not a major part of his arsenal like a Steph or Harden. 37% on 5 attempts a game doesn't classify as a prolific 3point shooter in this era.

[Manny98]

Kawhi is basically MJ with better defense and 3 point range.

[MJistheGOAT]

Kawhi is basically MJ with better defense and 3 point range.

Better defense???
How old are you, probably you watched 98 and Wizards MJ only.

[Indian guy]

What he has shown in these playoffs definitely puts him right up there with 2nd 3peat MJ. Both have dominant mid-range games, they are both explosive off the dribble, which allows them to get to their spots and get off high % shots, and both great defenders. MJ's definitely the more athletic player, so he didn't quite need to dribble as much as Kawhi to get what he wanted on offense. Kawhi's a damn good athlete in his own right, but still more dependent on the dribble to score. Which is just fine because his handle is a thing of beauty. That and his 3pt shooting is where he has the edge over MJ. MJ's got the body and playmaking over him.

[NBASTATMAN]

What he has shown in these playoffs definitely puts him right up there with 2nd 3peat MJ. Both have dominant mid-range games, they are both explosive off the dribble, which allows them to get to their spots and get off high % shots, and both great defenders. MJ's definitely the more athletic player, so he didn't quite need to dribble as much as Kawhi to get what he wanted on offense. Kawhi's a damn good athlete in his own right, but still more dependent on the dribble to score. Which is just fine because his handle is a thing of beauty. That and his 3pt shooting is where he has the edge over MJ. MJ's got the body and playmaking over him.


Totally agree.. Mj is def a better passer and could jump higher and for longer :lol .. But Kawhi is bigger and defensively Kawhi may be better cuz of his size. Both have exquisite mid range games but Kawhi is a money shooter from deep..

Kawhi is def better at long range shooting and using his dribble to attack.. The great thing about Kawhi dribble is he doesnt need to over use it .. He makes one move and boom he is past you and ready to rise up and hit that midrange.. MJ LIKE in many areas but better as a long range shooter but he isnt the passer MJ was..

[Phoenix]

Totally agree.. Mj is def a better passer and could jump higher and for longer :lol .. But Kawhi is bigger and defensively Kawhi may be better cuz of his size. Both have exquisite mid range games but Kawhi is a money shooter from deep..

Kawhi is def better at long range shooting and using his dribble to attack.. The great thing about Kawhi dribble is he doesnt need to over use it .. He makes one move and boom he is past you and ready to rise up and hit that midrange.. MJ LIKE in many areas but better as a long range shooter but he isnt the passer MJ was..

Not wholly true. There's times Kawhi has to set up his drive with a series of iso dribble moves, not Harden level( but again, who does it to that extent) but he doesn't have even 2nd 3-peat MJ's first step. MJ got to his spots because he was equally dangerous going left or right so you were more apt to bite on his shoulder and head fakes and then he's gone the other way. MJ also has a far more prolific post game and generally just a better slasher/finisher, more creative around the rim, and clearly a better passer though Kawhi's shown improvement in that area. Kawhi has a more modern handle and a more consistent 3 point shot, which are things you'd expect a modern perimeter player to have as 'advantages' over previous eras. The best thing I like about him is you can see the gym work, the hours honing his game. He's developed himself into a great player which is always nice to see unfold as it happens.

[LAmbruh]

Kawhi is a much better 3pt shooter and defender
true

[Neal Romer]

Well?

He's 0-2 vs a 7' Windhorst, and supposedly the 7' Windhorst is clearly a class below Hakeem.

So where does that leave Kawhi/MJ?

[gengiskhan]

well....

Kawhi does have 2 DPOY trophies.

gotta count for something besides his autistic laughter.