Why did Shaq have so little success without Kobe?

[Objectivity]

Whereas Kobe carried roleplayers to three straight finals and 2 championships...

:confusedshrug:

[Manny98]

Why did PRIME Kobe have so little success prior to getting Gasol :confusedshrug:


Kobe pre Gasol

2005 - misses playoffs

2006 - barely makes the playoffs and chokes a 3-1 lead in the 1st round

2007 - swept in the 1st round


Kobe with Gasol

2008 - finals

2009 - Championship

2010 - Championship

https://i.postimg.cc/9MP6x9RT/photo.jpg

Guess who led the Lakers in both plus minus and win shares in both 09 and 10?


https://i.postimg.cc/N00VV5HV/Cma-U7-Py-WEAAao-IA.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/y8D8HYcJ/download-3.jpg

Gasol transformed a team from first round fodder into championship caliber if that is not superstar caliber i don't know what is

Let's not forget who closed out the Celtics in game 7

https://i.postimg.cc/pr6stdkw/ezgif-1-ae222d86ab.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/SR2WCf7P/Yellowish-Wealthy-Koodoo-size-restricted.gif

Shaq won a championship without Kobe so stfu OP

[Mr. Jabbar]

He def had big failure with lebron

[Objectivity]

Why did PRIME Kobe have so little success prior to getting Gasol :confusedshrug:



Shaq won a championship without Kobe so stfu OP

Aside from all the trolling in your post and absurd hate for the GOAT... the last gif really shows how Kobe carried that team...his gravity attracting double teams paved the way for open shots the whole series.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why did PRIME Kobe have so little success prior to getting Gasol :confusedshrug:



Shaq won a championship without Kobe so stfu OP
You mean Wade won it and Shaq was along for the ride.

First player from the 2003 draft to lead his team to a championship and win a Finals MVP in dominating fashion.

[Manny98]

Aside from all the trolling in your post and absurd hate for the GOAT... the last gif really shows how Kobe carried that team...his gravity attracting double teams paved the way for open shots the whole series.
Kobe didn't carry shit all he did was lay bricks

World peace was the one who hit the shot to win the championship

Gasol was the MVP in game 7

Kobe was just along for the ride

[Objectivity]

Kobe didn't carry shit all he did was lay bricks

World peace was the one who hit the shot to win the championship

Gasol was the MVP in game 7

Kobe was just along for the ride

How did first option Gasol fare in the playoffs without Kobe?

[warriorfan]

Seething98

[Manny98]

How did first option Gasol fare in the playoffs without Kobe?
Kobe pre Gasol

2005 - misses playoffs

2006 - barely makes the playoffs and chokes a 3-1 lead in the 1st round

2007 - swept in the 1st round


Kobe with Gasol

2008 - finals

2009 - Championship

2010 - Championship

https://i.postimg.cc/9MP6x9RT/photo.jpg

Guess who led the Lakers in both plus minus and win shares in both 09 and 10?


https://i.postimg.cc/N00VV5HV/Cma-U7-Py-WEAAao-IA.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/y8D8HYcJ/download-3.jpg

Gasol transformed a team from first round fodder into championship caliber if that is not superstar caliber i don't know what is

Let's not forget who closed out the Celtics in game 7

https://i.postimg.cc/pr6stdkw/ezgif-1-ae222d86ab.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/SR2WCf7P/Yellowish-Wealthy-Koodoo-size-restricted.gif

[Hey Yo]

You mean Wade won it and Shaq was along for the ride.

First player from the 2003 draft to lead his team to a championship and win a Finals MVP in dominating fashion.
The same could be said about Bosh in 2012 and 2013..... plus the same for K. Love in 2016 even though Shaq put up better numbers than those 2 in the Finals I mentioned.

LeBron won it and they were just along for the ride.

[Objectivity]

Kobe pre Gasol

2005 - misses playoffs

2006 - barely makes the playoffs and chokes a 3-1 lead in the 1st round

2007 - swept in the 1st round


Kobe with Gasol

2008 - finals

2009 - Championship

2010 - Championship

https://i.postimg.cc/9MP6x9RT/photo.jpg

Guess who led the Lakers in both plus minus and win shares in both 09 and 10?


https://i.postimg.cc/N00VV5HV/Cma-U7-Py-WEAAao-IA.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/y8D8HYcJ/download-3.jpg

Gasol transformed a team from first round fodder into championship caliber if that is not superstar caliber i don't know what is

Let's not forget who closed out the Celtics in game 7

https://i.postimg.cc/pr6stdkw/ezgif-1-ae222d86ab.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/SR2WCf7P/Yellowish-Wealthy-Koodoo-size-restricted.gif

Imagine that, Kobe needed more help than Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to win the championship... what a loser :roll:

[Phoenix]

The same could be said about Bosh in 2012 and 2013..... plus the same for K. Love in 2016 even though Shaq put up better numbers than those 2 in the Finals I mentioned.

LeBron won it and they were just along for the ride.

Lebron screwed up Wade's 2011 finals carry job by letting Jason Terry outscore him so..... it all balances out.

[Vino24]

Shaq was well on his way to winning a ring in 2010 till he got injured

[warriorfan]

The same could be said about Bosh in 2012 and 2013..... plus the same for K. Love in 2016 even though Shaq put up better numbers than those 2 in the Finals I mentioned.

LeBron won it and they were just along for the ride.

Bosh and Kevin love were 3rd options



Pau Gasol was a 2nd


Yikes

[Hey Yo]

Lebron screwed up Wade's 2011 finals carry job by letting Jason Terry outscore him so..... it all balances out.
Who said anything about Wade?

Maybe if Wade played better defense on J. Terry, then Wade wouldn't have gotten torched so bad.

[warriorfan]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS
Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59%TS
Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

Kobe needed Pau as a second option to win

LeBron needed Bosh and Kevin Love as third options to win

Both Bosh and Kevin Love > Pau Gasol



Conclusion: LeBron had way more help

[Hey Yo]

Bosh and Kevin love were 3rd options



Pau Gasol was a 2nd


Yikes
Why bring up Gasol when talking about Shaq's success w/o Kobe??

Maybe you should empty the ashtray, light up another cancer stick and re-think your post.

[Objectivity]

Kobe needed Pau as a second option to win

LeBron needed Bosh and Kevin Love as third options to win

Both Bosh and Kevin Love > Pau Gasol



Conclusion: LeBron had way more help

GOT

[superduper]

Anyone: "Yo Manny how has Pau Gasol done as a first option in the playoffs in his career?"

Manny: "Yo here's a spam of pictures completely unrelated to your inquiry, hope that helps fam"

I realize reading isn't the greatest strength of us leTards but cot DAYUM we are truly LeTarded :(

[Phoenix]

Who said anything about Wade?

Maybe if Wade played better defense on J. Terry, then Wade wouldn't have gotten torched so bad.

Wade averaged 9 more points than Lebron while having a lower DRtg. Not sure that's the tree you want to bark up Chico.

[Hey Yo]

Wade averaged 9 more points than Lebron while having a lower DRtg. Not sure that's the tree you want to bark up Chico.
Who was Wade's defensive assignment?

[warriorfan]

Wade averaged 9 more points than Lebron while having a lower DRtg. Not sure that's the tree you want to bark up Chico.

:roll:

[Detroit]

He def had big failure with lebron

Who hasn't :oldlol: moar halp!!

[bullettooth]

A similar question; Why did both Kobe and Wade have success with Shaq while LeBron got nowhere with Shaq?

[Phoenix]

Who was Wade's defensive assignment?

Nice try Chico. Terry came off the bench so Wade only spot defended him just as he did Kidd and Barea/Stevenson who split starting duties. Now you can explain why Wade had the highest game score in the series, scored 9 more ppg than Lebron, and statistically had a better defensive rating. He had the LEAST to do with Miami losing.

[Manny98]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS
Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59%TS
Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

Kobe needed Pau as a second option to win

LeBron needed Bosh and Kevin Love as third options to win

Both Bosh and Kevin Love > Pau Gasol



Conclusion: LeBron had way more help
Kevin love 16 playoffs - 15ppg 38%

Gasol 10 playoffs - 20ppg 54%

Gasol > Love

Why are you doing pre stats you f*cking moron

[Manny98]

Lebron screwed up Wade's 2011 finals carry job by letting Jason Terry outscore him so..... it all balances out.
What has that got to do with this thread?

Stfu u clown

[Phoenix]

What has that got to do with this thread?

Stfu u clown

The adults are talking Manny, stop texting under your desk before the teacher takes away your phone.

Also, what does Lebron have to do with a thread about Shaq and Kobe?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kevin love 16 playoffs - 15ppg 38%

Gasol 10 playoffs - 20ppg 54%

Gasol > Love

Why are you doing pre stats you f*cking moron
Gasol 10 playoffs - 20 ppg 54%

Kyrie 16 playoffs - 25 ppg 48%

Kyrie > Gasol > Love

[bullettooth]

What has that got to do with this thread?

Stfu u clown

He's right. Don't get all worked up just because LeBron put up the greatest fail job in NBA finals history.

[Manny98]

Gasol 10 playoffs - 20 ppg 54%

Kyrie 16 playoffs - 25 ppg 48%

Kyrie > Gasol > Love
WS/48

Gasol - .224

Kyrie - .210

So no.

[ImKobe]

WS/48

Gasol - .224

Kyrie - .210

So no.

I don't think you understand what WS/48 even is.

[warriorfan]

I don't think you understand what WS/48 even is.

Manny doesn

[Manny98]

I don't think you understand what WS/48 even is.
Win shares = equals how much winning a player adds to their team

So Gasol contributed more to the Lakers winning than Kyrie to the Cavs

[Objectivity]

Win shares = equals how much winning a player adds to their team

So Gasol contributed more to the Lakers winning than Kyrie to the Cavs

Do you even need to watch baskeball when you have all them stats?

[ImKobe]

Win shares = equals how much winning a player adds to their team

So Gasol contributed more to the Lakers winning than Kyrie to the Cavs

So then you agree with me that Kobe was better than Shaq on a 15 - 1 Playoff team, since he led the team in winshares?

[Phoenix]

I don't think you understand what WS/48 even is.

You don't know the Letard stan ISH logic? Numbers only count when they're in favor of Lebron, regardless of context or whether they know what the numbers even mean. When they aren't in his favor, it's someone else's fault. Lebron being shit in the 2011 finals? Blame Wade's defense. Blame the rest of the team. Blame the parking valet. Blame the guy selling popcorn in the stands. Blame the guy handing out drying towels in the bathroom for tips. Blame anyone.....but Lebron.

[Hey Yo]

Nice try Chico. Terry came off the bench so Wade only spot defended him just as he did Kidd and Barea/Stevenson who split starting duties. Now you can explain why Wade had the highest game score in the series, scored 9 more ppg than Lebron, and statistically had a better defensive rating. He had the LEAST to do with Miami losing.
You'd have a point if Terry wasn't playing starter minutes. He avg. 10+ more minutes than the 2 guys who started instead of him in the series.

So who was Wade's defensive assignment again??

[bullettooth]

Fanny98 still melting down 8 years later over his idols shitting of the bed in 2011 :lol

[Manny98]

So then you agree with me that Kobe was better than Shaq on a 15 - 1 Playoff team, since he led the team in winshares?
Yh, Kobe was better in the first 3 rounds

[Objectivity]

Yh, Kobe was better in the first 3 rounds

So youre saying Kobe did the hardlifting in the bloodbath west, while Shaq was relied upon to dominate against the weak non existant frontcourt eastern team?

[Phoenix]

You'd have a point if Terry wasn't playing starter minutes. He avg. 10+ more minutes than the 2 guys who started instead of him in the series.

So who was Wade's defensive assignment again??

And you'd have a point if you were able to extrapolate that Wade having to carry Lebron's ass on offense leaves less energy on the defensive end. You'd also have a point if Wade was exclusively defending Terry, and not all the backcourt players at various points......while carrying the offense. Again, highest PPG/TS%, highest gamescore, best defensive rating, highest bpg. OBJECTIVELY, the least to do with Miami losing out of anyone on the roster. Keep spinning in circles.

Also, you may want to sit down watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U

Thanks for playing.

[Manny98]

You don't know the Letard stan ISH logic? Numbers only count when they're in favor of Lebron, regardless of context or whether they know what the numbers even mean. When they aren't in his favor, it's someone else's fault. Lebron being shit in the 2011 finals? Blame Wade's defense. Blame the rest of the team. Blame the parking valet. Blame the guy selling popcorn in the stands. Blame the guy handing out drying towels in the bathroom for tips. Blame anyone.....but Lebron.
In the all important game 6 of the 2011 finals

LeBron 21 points 60%

Wade 17 points 37% + letting his assignment drop 27 points :roll:

"LeBrons fault doe" :roll:

[Phoenix]

In the all important game 6 of the 2011 finals

LeBron 21 points 60%

Wade 17 points 37% + letting his assignment drop 27 points

"LeBrons fault doe"

In the pivotal game 4 when Miami could have gone up 3-1 with home court, Wade 32.....Lebron 8. While letting his assignment Shawn Marion's corpse double his point production.

"Wades fault doe"

Lunch bell is ringing Manny, time for your ABCs and then an afternoon nap.

[bullettooth]

In the all important game 6 of the 2011 finals

LeBron 21 points 60%

Wade 17 points 37% + letting his assignment drop 27 points :roll:

"LeBrons fault doe" :roll:

MELTDOWN!!!!!!

https://media1.giphy.com/media/4gAmLDv7UtoM8/giphy.gif

[Hey Yo]

And you'd have a point if you were able to extrapolate that Wade having to carry Lebron's ass on offense leaves less energy on the defensive end. You'd also have a point if Wade was exclusively defending Terry, and not all the backcourt players at various points......while carrying the offense. Again, highest PPG/TS%, highest gamescore, best defensive rating, highest bpg. OBJECTIVELY, the least to do with Miami losing out of anyone on the roster. Keep spinning in circles.

Also, you may want to sit down watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U

Thanks for playing.
Allllll....... so now if a player is doing some heavy lifting on offense, he can / should be excused for lack of defense?? So if Wade was tired and couldn't play defense up to par after his longest Postseason run in 5yrs and you excuse him for it..... then why shit on LeBron's defense after he carried more of an offensive load for 7 straight Finals appearances?

Can't have it both ways, chico.

Making mental note that you excuse LeBron's defense considering he carried the offensive load through the entire postseason from 2012-2018.

[ImKobe]

In the all important game 6 of the 2011 finals

LeBron 21 points 60%

Wade 17 points 37% + letting his assignment drop 27 points :roll:

"LeBrons fault doe" :roll:

I'll take your Game 6

Game 2 (2-pt loss at home):

Wade - 36/5/6/3/1 71.2%TS
James - 20/8/4/4/1 59.7%TS

Game 4 (3-pt loss):

Wade - 32/6/2/2/2 66.8%TS
James - 8/9/7/2 31.3%TS

Game 5 (9-pt loss)

Wade - 23/2/8/2/1 66.6%TS
James - 17/10/10/0/1 42.8%TS


:roll: :roll:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[superduper]

Win shares = equals how much winning a player adds to their team

So Gasol contributed more to the Lakers winning than Kyrie to the Cavs

This is all you need to know about Bran stans. They literally have zero idea what they're even spewing from their own mouths. And Bran stans think they win arguments by saying shit like this :roll: :roll:

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe pre Gasol

2005 - misses playoffs

2006 - barely makes the playoffs and chokes a 3-1 lead in the 1st round

2007 - swept in the 1st round


Kobe with Gasol

2008 - finals

2009 - Championship

2010 - Championship

https://i.postimg.cc/9MP6x9RT/photo.jpg

Guess who led the Lakers in both plus minus and win shares in both 09 and 10?


https://i.postimg.cc/N00VV5HV/Cma-U7-Py-WEAAao-IA.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/y8D8HYcJ/download-3.jpg

Gasol transformed a team from first round fodder into championship caliber if that is not superstar caliber i don't know what is

Let's not forget who closed out the Celtics in game 7

https://i.postimg.cc/pr6stdkw/ezgif-1-ae222d86ab.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/SR2WCf7P/Yellowish-Wealthy-Koodoo-size-restricted.gif

Great meltdown. :rockon:

[Phoenix]

Allllll....... so now if a player is doing some heavy lifting on offense, he can / should be excused for lack of defense?? So if Wade was tired and couldn't play defense up to par after his longest Postseason run in 5yrs, then why shit on LeBron's defense after he carried more of an offensive load for 7 straight Finals appearances?

Can't have it both ways, chico.

Making mental note that you excuse LeBron's defense considering he carried the offensive load through the entire postseason from 2012-2018.

We're talking about Lebron and Wade's respective performances in the 2011 finals during this exchange. Where do you see me shitting on Lebron's defense after the 2011 finals? Dude's arguing about a point I never made :oldlol:

When you can show me some counter evidence of Wade's defense being exposed by Terry, as I just did show you a video blowing holes in Lebron's defense that series and shitting right in the face of your spin that it was Wade's defense that Terry went off against....then you'll have a point. Right now you're falling into the trap I spoke about earlier. The bathroom attendant. The parking valet. The popcorn guy. Maybe the guy processing the ticket online. Everyone else's fault bu bu but Bronny! Just stop it, it's embarrassing.

Yep, make all the mental notes you need Chico.

[stalkerforlife]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS
Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59%TS
Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

Kobe needed Pau as a second option to win

LeBron needed Bosh and Kevin Love as third options to win

Both Bosh and Kevin Love > Pau Gasol



Conclusion: LeBron had way more help

Got em.

[Phoenix]

I'll take your Game 6

Game 2 (2-pt loss at home):

Wade - 36/5/6/3/1 71.2%TS
James - 20/8/4/4/1 59.7%TS

Game 4 (3-pt loss):

Wade - 32/6/2/2/2 66.8%TS
James - 8/9/7/2 31.3%TS

Game 5 (9-pt loss)

Wade - 23/2/8/2/1 66.6%TS
James - 17/10/10/0/1 42.8%TS


:roll: :roll:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


https://media.giphy.com/media/aBooMpl2faiHK/giphy.gif

[stalkerforlife]

So then you agree with me that Kobe was better than Shaq on a 15 - 1 Playoff team, since he led the team in winshares?

Ouch.

Backpedal, Manny!

Quick!

:roll:

[Manny98]

I'll take your Game 6

Game 2 (2-pt loss at home):

Wade - 36/5/6/3/1 71.2%TS
James - 20/8/4/4/1 59.7%TS

Game 4 (3-pt loss):

Wade - 32/6/2/2/2 66.8%TS
James - 8/9/7/2 31.3%TS

Game 5 (9-pt loss)

Wade - 23/2/8/2/1 66.6%TS
James - 17/10/10/0/1 42.8%TS


:roll: :roll:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
So?

LeBron was getting quadrupled teamed the entire series

Cuban said himself that the defensive strategy was to let Wade get his and focus on LeBron

Wade put up empty stats simple as that

[bullettooth]

Manny,

How many more years are you going to waste in your life by crying about LeBron's lackluster finals performances and 3/9 record?

Get over it.

[superduper]

So then you agree with me that Kobe was better than Shaq on a 15 - 1 Playoff team, since he led the team in winshares?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

BOOM.

[Hey Yo]

We're talking about Lebron and Wade's respective performances in the 2011 finals during this exchange. Where do you see me shitting on Lebron's defense after the 2011 finals? Dude's arguing about a point I never made :oldlol:

When you can show me some counter evidence of Wade's defense being exposed by Terry, as I just did show you a video blowing holes in Lebron's defense that series and shitting right in the face of your spin that it was Wade's defense that Terry went off against....then you'll have a point. Right now you're falling into the trap I spoke about earlier. The bathroom attendant. The parking valet. The popcorn guy. Maybe the guy processing the ticket online. Everyone else's fault bu bu but Bronny! Just stop it, it's embarrassing.

Yep, make all the mental notes you need Chico.
:oldlol: Why would anyone make a YT video of Terry shitting on Wade??

I saw a few great shots by JT with LeBron playing great D. A couple blow by's which led to a bucket and passing off by JT. A jumper that was altered by LeBron that needed to be passed off. Nothing there of great significance.

You can make that type of (4 minute) cherry picked video for just about any player.

I never said it was everyone else's fault..... nice try though.

[DocSlam]

Shaq and Kobe never won anything until their "counselor" Dr. Phil came along..
They were useless without him

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/df/07/e6df071a052018a4a2ff877daca35b33.jpg

[superduper]

Shaq and Kobe never won anything until their "counselor" Dr. Phil came along..
They were useless without him

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/df/07/e6df071a052018a4a2ff877daca35b33.jpg

And we all saw what Phil did on NYK without having 3 GOATs in Shaq/MJ/Kobe to carry his ass :lol

[sdot_thadon]

How did Shaq have "little" success without Kobe? More like how did Shaq have slightly less success without Kobe.

Kobe made 3 finals without Shaq, winning 2.

Shaq made 2 finals without Kobe, winning 1.

Not to mention Wade being injured in the 2005 conference finals in game 5 and they ended up blowing a 3-2 lead. Real life guys, you should join up sometime.

[Phoenix]

:oldlol: Why would anyone make a YT video of Terry shitting on Wade??

I saw a few great shots by JT with LeBron playing great D. A couple blow by's which led to a bucket and passing off by JT. A jumper that was altered by LeBron that needed to be passed off. Nothing there of great significance.

You can make that type of (4 minute) cherry picked video for just about any player.

I never said it was everyone else's fault..... nice try though.

Why would anyone make a YT video of Terry shitting on Wade? I guess if there was enough compelling evidence to do so. That was easy. I'm waiting for anything from you that backs up that Wade's defense( or lack of ) resulted in Terry going off. Video? Numbers? Anything really....got any numbers that show the amount of points Terry scored directly on Wade's defense?

One simple question, who was more responsible for the Heat losing between Wade and Lebron? Two possible answers: Wade or Lebron. Let's see how intellectually honest you are.