this era's best player is basically a less skilled and athletic mj

[Bronbron23]

Anyone still think mj wouldn't absolutely crush this era?

[dazzer87]

league today is water down........Jordan would average 45 per game.

[3ball]

That's why MJ is the GOAT

[r0drig0lac]

Anyone still think mj wouldn't absolutely crush this era?
no

[Spurs m8]

league today is water down........Jordan would average 45 per game.


And thats a conservative number

[FKAri]

league today is water down........Jordan would average 45 per game.
League's definitely not watered down. It's as good as ever but MJ's an anomaly. Not only is he the GOAT but the rules of the league today are literally designed to aid perimeter players. So ofcourse he'd do well today. I dunno bout 45ppg. Diminishing returns is a thing. He'd warp defenses for sure.

[3ball]

League's definitely not watered down. It's as good as ever but MJ's an anomaly. Not only is he the GOAT but the rules of the league today are literally designed to aid perimeter players. So ofcourse he'd do well today. I dunno bout 45ppg. Diminishing returns is a thing. He'd warp defenses for sure.
I like how all the midrange, footwork, turnaround, and fadeaway jumpshot stuff that he was goat at is the stuff that these young players must add to their game to be any good

Giannis, Ben Simmons, 07' Lebron - all were exposed for not having enough MJ in their game

This is just the fundamentals.. so not considering all the flash he had in his game too

[scuzzy]

Yeah NBA talent today is pooled from 5x the collegiate population than it was in 90's. And these colleges scout from 3x the high school population. People have a hard time understanding this works.

In 1992 their were three(?) international NBA players int he Olympics that served on a NBA roster

Jordan isn't going up against John Starks and Craig Ehlo's everynight. And their backups aren't making a NBA roster today

90's Bench players would be lucky to catch a G-league roster, arguably even Euroleague.


-Opportunities to play basketball
-Sports science
-Learning from the past gens
-Talent pool development increase


10-20 years from now, same thing. Inevitably soon 3rd world HS scouting will cap out. You can only find so much AAU in places like Siberia. Social media has helped spotlight phenoms that would never sniffed a 90's newspaper article

[Vino24]

Kawhi has bigger hands and package than MJ

[Bronbron23]

Kawhi has bigger hands and package than MJ
Thats suspect dude

[BigKobeFan]

I like how all the midrange, footwork, turnaround, and fadeaway jumpshot stuff that he was goat at is the stuff that these young players must add to their game to be any good

Giannis, Ben Simmons, 07' Lebron - all were exposed for not having enough MJ in their game

This is just the fundamentals.. so not considering all the flash he had in his game too

without fundamentals, you tire yourself out. That is why bran complains about having no ac

[Manny98]

Kawhi is a better shooter and defender so no

Kawhi - 51% from mid range off 7 attempts a game

MJ - 45% from mid range off 15 attempts a game

Kawhi - 89% free throw shooter

MJ - 82% free throw shooter

So Kawhi is the superior overall jumpshooter, better defender, is bigger and longer and just as clutch

MJ only wins in having superior athleticism and playmaking

[3ball]

Kawhi is a better shooter and defender so no
Defense is close

But Kawhi won ECF with 34% threes on 5 attempts, while MJ won 92 and 93 Finals w/ 41% on 4.3 att

so MJ already shot better than Kawhi while winning rings without practicing, so he'd be a much better shooter than Kawhi in this era with practice

[3ball]

Kawhi is a better shooter and defender so no

Kawhi - 51% from mid range off 7 attempts a game

MJ - 45% from mid range off 15 attempts a game

Kawhi - 89% free throw shooter

MJ - 82% free throw shooter

So Kawhi is the superior overall jumpshooter, better defender, is bigger and longer and just as clutch

MJ only wins in having superior athleticism and playmaking
MJ is the much better shooter, scorer, passer and equal defender

MJ shot 45-50% from mid-range at high volume - Kawhi can't do that - MJ also won 2 Finals with better 3-pt percentage than Kawhi just had against the Bucks - so MJ could shoot better than Kawhi without practicing

[dunksby]

You could say that for a few others as well e.g. Kareem, Wilt and Shaq; they are all-time greats for a reason. The same way Kawhi, Durant, Curry and James would also crush it in other eras.

[Vino24]

MJ is the much better shooter, scorer, passer and equal defender

MJ shot 45-50% from mid-range at high volume - Kawhi can't do that - MJ also won 2 Finals with better 3-pt percentage than Kawhi just had against the Bucks - so MJ could shoot better than Kawhi without practicing
Kawhi doesn

[ImKobe]

Kawhi doesn’t have to volume score because it’s not an optimal way to play the game. Kawhi is a better team player and off the ball player. He doesn’t reduce his 2nd option

Oh really? He didn't take like 40 shots in Game 7 vs Philly?

MJ was a more consistent scorer. Leonard's been the worst volume 3PT shooter in the last 3 weeks of the Playoffs as well, so him being so much better at 3PT shooting isn't translating all that well either.

Kobe's the only player in the last 30 years that would compare to Jordan.


Kawhi and MJ have little in common apart from the fadeaway and the big hands, Kobe is 2nd 3-Peat Jordan and the closest thing to the GOAT.

MJ never reduced his 2nd option, Pippen had almost two seasons to prove he could be a high-volume scorer and he only managed to get to 22 ppg as the #1 guy. MJ and Kobe got the most out of their teammates.

[Hey Yo]

without fundamentals, you tire yourself out. That is why bran complains about having no ac
That's why Jordan quit for 2yrs in order to come back fresh

[Elosha]

That's why Jordan quit for 2yrs in order to come back fresh

How many times/how many threads do you have to spam this? You've been rebutted a dozen times or more. Guess it's a war of attrition for you. :facepalm :rolleyes:

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Kawhi doesn

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Kawhi doesn

[KingMambaFan]

That's why MJ is the GOAT
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Shaq

Do you agree?

[3ball]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Shaq

Do you agree?
The highest that I've ever ranked Lebron is #10

And Wilt was much better than Kareem

[ILLsmak]

Yeah NBA talent today is pooled from 5x the collegiate population than it was in 90's. And these colleges scout from 3x the high school population. People have a hard time understanding this works.

In 1992 their were three(?) international NBA players int he Olympics that served on a NBA roster

Jordan isn't going up against John Starks and Craig Ehlo's everynight. And their backups aren't making a NBA roster today

90's Bench players would be lucky to catch a G-league roster, arguably even Euroleague.


-Opportunities to play basketball
-Sports science
-Learning from the past gens
-Talent pool development increase


10-20 years from now, same thing. Inevitably soon 3rd world HS scouting will cap out. You can only find so much AAU in places like Siberia. Social media has helped spotlight phenoms that would never sniffed a 90's newspaper article

I dono if it works like that. I mean, look at eras for music or writing. Look at classical music. Look at even modern literature. The best are the best.

It's kind of like spreading literacy, does that improve the overall quality of writing? I don't think it does. Some people who might have done other things could see it as an option, but since we're talking about 80s to now, that gap isn't wide either.

People play outside of their roles, but I was thinking about this the other day, who is to say that a lot of those guys like say luc Longley who are kinda bummy ish cs with a short j, could not have spaced the floor at like 30% or w/e.

The thing that has really changed is handles I think. I also think basketball has become a lot more free form. It was really science back then. You might say it's science to take threes cuz you only have to hit x percent, but it's not science in that way the way people just jack crazy shots. People were looking for the optimal shot and they were afraid in away to take a sub optimal one esp if they were a role player. There is probably more talent at the end of benches than there used to be. But is there more talent in rotation players? I dunno. Those guys were really good at what they did even if they looked like stiffs. I mean luc Longley for instance was probably one of the worst starters at big but he could block shots, shoot, and even defend someone like Shaq a little.

But Yea the league isn't watered down. Mj would not average 45. It's just a diff Era. We're not cross comparing 60s n now. It'd just unfolds a little differently.

And so now we're saying kawhi is legit best player in nba? OK haha. Not saying he's not playing like it now but I dono if I'm ready to go there, even when the raps win in the finals. But stay in the moment dudes.


-Smak

[3ball]

Yeah NBA talent today is pooled from 5x the collegiate population than it was in 90's. And these colleges scout from 3x the high school population. People have a hard time understanding this works.

In 1992 their were three(?) international NBA players int he Olympics that served on a NBA roster

Jordan isn't going up against John Starks and Craig Ehlo's everynight. And their backups aren't making a NBA roster today

90's Bench players would be lucky to catch a G-league roster, arguably even Euroleague.


-Opportunities to play basketball
-Sports science
-Learning from the past gens
-Talent pool development increase


10-20 years from now, same thing. Inevitably soon 3rd world HS scouting will cap out. You can only find so much AAU in places like Siberia. Social media has helped spotlight phenoms that would never sniffed a 90's newspaper article
today's SG position is literally the weakest it's ever been - I don't see a single elite athlete among the top 2-guards (maybe Lavine, but he's a stringbean, lightweight that the wind would knock over).. Drexler would easily be the best 2-way SG today, let alone Jordan.

Btw, no spacing and hand-checking makes for a harder game - every aspect was tougher - paint-camping, physicality, etc... so the notion that players in today's easier game would excel in the tougher game of past eras is dumb - most guys wouldn't make it without today's spaced-out, hand-off format, or without teammates spacing the floor or running plays for 3-pointers

And today's backups are garbage.. 3-D robots.. not skilled... would get destroyed by backups like Ehlo

Finally, the NBA has more teams now, so that accounts for the extra scouting - it evens out - if you reduced the NBA to 25 teams or 20 like previous eras, the league gets TOUGHER
.

[superduper]

That Vino24 take :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Akeem34TheDream]

Kawhi is stronger and a better defender.

[3ball]

Kawhi is stronger and a better defender.



Magic on MJ:



His strength is like a big man's. He's the strongest guard to ever play

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=01m09s


I don't think there's a material difference in strength and MJ was the same defensively, while being a much better scorer, passer, leader and clutch player

[andgar923]

Magic on MJ:



His strength is like a big man's. He's the strongest guard to ever play

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=01m09s


I don't think there's a material difference in strength and MJ was the same defensively, while being a much better scorer, passer, leader and clutch player
Robert Horry said the same

[FKAri]

Magic on MJ:



His strength is like a big man's. He's the strongest guard to ever play

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=01m09s


I don't think there's a material difference in strength and MJ was the same defensively, while being a much better scorer, passer, leader and clutch player
Magic is an unreliable narrator about anything. I'd be surprised if MJ was stronger than Kawhi. Defense is hard to compare. Kawhi's effective on defense in a MUCH tougher era. On the other hand MJ was much, much quicker than Kawhi.

[warriorfan]

Op...are you trying to say LeBron got completely emasculated in the Finals by a 22 year old less skilled and athletic version of MJ?

Yikes

[FKAri]

Op...are you trying to say LeBron got completely emasculated in the Finals by a 22 year old less skilled and athletic version of MJ?

Yikes
Lebron put him over.

[Bronbron23]

Op...are you trying to say LeBron got completely emasculated in the Finals by a 22 year old less skilled and athletic version of MJ?

Yikes
I don't know about schooled but kawhi did give him problems defensively. As far as LeBron vs mj I've said many times that mj was better

[StrongLurk]

Kawhi has never been the best player. He has never been better than KD.

[3ball]

I don't know about schooled but kawhi did give him problems defensively. As far as LeBron vs mj I've said many times that mj was better
Yeah Kawhi averaged 24 ppg on 70% in the last 3 games of the 14' Finals

But it wasn't kawhi that schooled Lebron - it was the old spurs giving lebron a ball movement, teamwork and basketball LESSON

The odds were pretty even for the series and Miami had 4 HOF's that were younger than the Spurs (except ray).. so the spurs didn't win via superior talent - they won via superior teamwork - that's the schooling lesson.... although lebron didn't learn the lesson because his teams have remained low ball movement teams (certainly NOT basketball genius)

[superduper]

Kawhi has never been the best player. He has never been better than KD.

Kawhi's impact on the floor right now is very comparable to if not even slightly better than KD's.

Both are 1a/1b in the world currently in my eyes with Curry just behind them.

[TheMan]

league today is water down........Jordan would average 45 per game.
I don't think the league is watered down, the talent is there but the rules changes has made it a whole lot easier to score. The defense aren't allowed to disrupt the offense, the spacing is crazy because everyone is shooting 3pters and big men aren't allowed to park their big asses in the lane.

The NBA wanted more offense in the absence of MJ type prolific scorers...they got it by manipulating the rules.

And yeah, MJ would be even better by today's rules, former and current coaches like Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Pop, Hubie Brown etc have said this. Not only MJ either, Wade, Dr J, Kobe, Nique etc would see their pts per game avgs go up. I'll take their word over any neckbeard incel here that thinks differently.

[StrongLurk]

Kawhi's impact on the floor right now is very comparable to if not even slightly better than KD's.

Both are 1a/1b in the world currently in my eyes with Curry just behind them.

KD dropped 51/11/6 on Kawhi's ass earlier this year :lol

Yes Kawhi is having a very good run, but he has not proved himself over KD.

I bring this up because OP said Kawhi is best of the ERA...which Lebron/KD are clearly ahead and even Curry too.

[Bronbron23]

Yeah Kawhi averaged 24 ppg on 70% in the last 3 games of the 14' Finals

But it wasn't kawhi that schooled Lebron - it was the old spurs giving lebron a ball movement, teamwork and basketball LESSON

The odds were pretty even for the series and Miami had 4 HOF's that were younger than the Spurs (except ray).. so the spurs didn't win via superior talent - they won via superior teamwork - that's the schooling lesson.... although lebron didn't learn the lesson because his teams have remained low ball movement teams (certainly NOT basketball genius)
Yeah pretty much. LeBron has definitely been his worst enemy when it comes to winning chips. 3 is still pretty good though.

[3ball]

Yeah pretty much. LeBron has definitely been his worst enemy when it comes to winning chips.

3 is still pretty good though.


2009 Dwight and 2011 Dirk had zero superstar teammates

But if they teamed up with 3 superstars/HOF's (Wade/Bosh/Ray), I'm sure they'd win 3 rings just like Lebron

The problem with Lebron's career is that he skipped the teammate and team development processes that are typically required of champions - he wants us to assume that the development would've happened regardless, and we should just accept him landing on a ready-made favorite in 2011 and 2015

That's a problem because his skill restriction to ball-domination and the resulting "spot-up shooter" brand doesn't develop teammates or the team's brand of ball.. So the exact thing that Lebron's team-hopping skips (team development) is the main thing his brand doesn't do... Accordingly, his ball-dominant style prevents me from assuming his teams would develop, so his team-hopped rings DO negatively affect my ranking of him

I don't believe he can develop teammates or a team into a champion - his style HURTS development, and so he must to team-hop to win rings.. his skillset (ball-domination) simply can't win organically (spot-up shooter brand doesn't develop anything except his own stats)

[TheCorporation]

Yeah NBA talent today is pooled from 5x the collegiate population than it was in 90's. And these colleges scout from 3x the high school population. People have a hard time understanding this works.

In 1992 their were three(?) international NBA players int he Olympics that served on a NBA roster

Jordan isn't going up against John Starks and Craig Ehlo's everynight. And their backups aren't making a NBA roster today

90's Bench players would be lucky to catch a G-league roster, arguably even Euroleague.


-Opportunities to play basketball
-Sports science
-Learning from the past gens
-Talent pool development increase


10-20 years from now, same thing. Inevitably soon 3rd world HS scouting will cap out. You can only find so much AAU in places like Siberia. Social media has helped spotlight phenoms that would never sniffed a 90's newspaper article

Bingo

[Vino24]

MJ couldn't handle zone defense. He'd get absolutely shut down by it

[3ball]

MJ couldn't handle zone defense. He'd get absolutely shut down by it
MJ was Player of the Year over Hakeem when both played a full zone in college

So he was goat in a zone

Furthermore, today's game only allows zone outside the paint, while heavily restricting paint defense

So MJ would average 45 today

[Vino24]

MJ was Player of the Year over Hakeem when both played a full zone in college

So he was goat in a zone

Furthermore, today's game only allows zone outside the paint, while heavily restricting paint defense

So MJ would average 45 today
while getting swept in the 1st round

[superduper]

while getting swept in the 1st round

Not if he's facing:

-Teague
-Hibbert
-Reggie Jackson
-Lowry
-Kemba Walker
-Rookie Tatum
-Josh Richardson
-Demar Derozan

...every single first round

[Vino24]

Not if he's facing:

-Teague
-Hibbert
-Reggie Jackson
-Lowry
-Kemba Walker
-Rookie Tatum
-Josh Richardson
-Demar Derozan

...every single first round
taking that many midrange shots? easily swept :biggums:

[superduper]

taking that many midrange shots? easily swept :biggums:

Are you telling me this is shutting down MJ

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-15-2018/7rkDFz.gif

GTFO of here and go back to your playground :roll:

[3ball]

while getting swept in the 1st round
MJ is so goat that he's the only guy that ever gets knocked for losing in the 8 vs. 1 matchup

So much is expected of the goat .. :bowdown:

But while the goat catches heat for losing as the 8 seed, Laker fans were praying Lebron was good enough to make the 8 seed and lose to the 1 seed... :facepalm .. so non-goat

[Vino24]

taking that many midrange shots? easily swept :biggums:
no the rest of his team would be

[3ball]

taking that many midrange shots? easily swept :biggums:
Kawhi won the ECF with 34% threes on 5 attempts

MJ won the 92' and 93' Finals with 41% on 4.2 attempts

So MJ already shot better than today's standard, while winning rings.. :applause:

[superduper]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-15-2018/7rkDFz.gif