Is the US powerful enough to embargo China?

[iamgine]

It's no secret that for decades China has been breaking a lot of serious international trade laws that they agreed and committed to do. The US had previously embargoed China in the 1950-ish.

Is the US currently powerful enough to embargo China and make its allies support the embargo?

[Shogon]

Mutually assured destruction.

But they're getting closer to us needing them more than them needing us, if they're not already there.

So to answer your question... no.

[NumberSix]

China is almost certainly too big for a single country to unilaterally say nobody can trade with them.

[falc39]

:roll:

[fiddy]

Mutually assured destruction.

But they're getting closer to us needing them more than them needing us, if they're not already there.

So to answer your question... no.
lol, China is a bitch depended on US exports to survive, on top of everything it is surrounded by US allies. Once the US stops importing Chinese goods, the biggest humanitarian crisis will unfold. Can you imagine the millions out of work of Chinese?

[Overdrive]

lol, China is a bitch depended on US exports to survive, on top of everything it is surrounded by US allies. Once the US stops importing Chinese goods, the biggest humanitarian crisis will unfold. Can you imagine the millions out of work of Chinese?

Not like the US doesn't import chinese good. Most electronic parts are made in China even if the finished product is made in USA.

[ILLsmak]

lol, China is a bitch depended on US exports to survive, on top of everything it is surrounded by US allies. Once the US stops importing Chinese goods, the biggest humanitarian crisis will unfold. Can you imagine the millions out of work of Chinese?

It's gonna be grueling and take years tho. And like u said affect a lot of people, Chinese and American, and I'm not talking about an embargo im talking about just a srs trade war. The question is: is it necessary to regain control and are we ready to **** our own people in the beginning to reach the desired end? And as we suck power out of China maybe our bitch ass allies might step up to the plate. The question is will China group up with like Russia, Iran, North Korea etc and start doing really vile shit.

It's probably better to not do it, I think what Trump n bros wanna do is just make sure we get a big leg up. We aren't upset with them being number two. We're just trying to check them. We don't really wanna **** w China just like we don't really wanna bang out w Russia in a war. But sometimes shit happens.

Edit: double sig haha

-Smak

[fiddy]

Not like the US doesn't import chinese good. Most electronic parts are made in China even if the finished product is made in USA.
Well, there are other places you can outsource your manufacturing jobs. Its not like the US is truly dependent on China, it is the other way around. China cannot survive without US dollars. Also China lacks oil, most of which is produced by US, its allies in the ME or Russia. Russia might cooperate with China, but dealing with the Ruskies comes with a price tag.



It's gonna be grueling and take years tho. And like u said affect a lot of people, Chinese and American, and I'm not talking about an embargo im talking about just a srs trade war. The question is: is it necessary to regain control and are we ready to **** our own people in the beginning to reach the desired end? And as we suck power out of China maybe our bitch ass allies might step up to the plate. The question is will China group up with like Russia, Iran, North Korea etc and start doing really vile shit.

It's probably better to not do it, I think what Trump n bros wanna do is just make sure we get a big leg up. We aren't upset with them being number two. We're just trying to check them. We don't really wanna **** w China just like we don't really wanna bang out w Russia in a war. But sometimes shit happens.

-Smak

-Smak


Ends justifies means. If the US doesnt swat China now, it might be too late in the future. Fuсk our own people? Like how? In case of an armed conflict the biggest damage takers wont be people in the US. Also if you go to war with Russia, the most fuсked people will be the Europeans.

[falc39]

US problems don

[bladefd]

Why would you want to even attempt an embargo? It would severely damage our economy, their economy, and global economy.

Very few countries could benefit from this - maybe Russia?
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/07/17/09/4E550CAE00000578-0-image-m-18_1531817797889.jpg

Anyways, it would be idiotic to attempt. Don't expect Europe to go along with it.. They probably wouldn't then we would be left holding our own pricks while everyone points & laughs :facepalm

[fiddy]

Very few countries could benefit from this - maybe Russia?


Anyways, it would be idiotic to attempt. Don't expect Europe to go along with it.. They probably wouldn't then we would be left holding our own pricks while everyone points & laughs :facepalm
how could Russia benefit from US embargo on China?

[bladefd]

how could Russia benefit from US embargo on China?

If China and USA severely damage each other's economies with a full blown trade war/embargo, other economies will take advantage of the situation. Countries like Japan, India and Russia would swoop in and find ways to profit from it. Russia clearly gains if the top 2 economies target each other.

[Shogon]

^ Trump has had a publicly displayed hardon for the US getting ripped off in trade deals literally since the 80s... damn... the Putin mind control goes wayyyy back!!

The absolute foresight on Vladimir!

:rolleyes:

[Stephonit]

The U.S. can embargo China all it wants but to what end? It's not going to stop China from developing only slow it down a little and at great cost.

[DCL]

equivalent to hitting the financial nuclear button on our own soil

[iamgine]

Why would you want to even attempt an embargo? It would severely damage our economy, their economy, and global economy.

The reason is stated in the OP. China has been and continue to break a lot of serious international trade laws that they agreed and committed to do.

[bladefd]

The reason is stated in the OP. China has been and continue to break a lot of serious international trade laws that they agreed and committed to do.

Well then prepare 2 graves. One for them and second for us. That's the only way trade wars go unless if you get lots of global support from many other nations to support you. Tell me why Canada or England or Australia or Germany or Japan or India or Israel or any of our allies/partners agree to embargo China alongside us?

I will wait.

[eliteballer]

Why would you want to even attempt an embargo? It would severely damage our economy, their economy, and global economy.


The fact that he even asked this question shows OP has no idea how the world works.

[greymatter]

Well, there are other places you can outsource your manufacturing jobs. Its not like the US is truly dependent on China, it is the other way around.

Depends on the type of manufacturing jobs. That aside, it's clear you have no clue. Anyone with at least a casual interest in current events has at least read about some of the possible fallout scenarios from an expanded trade war. China has over 80% of the world's stockpile of rare earth materials that are crucial for manufacturing electronics.



China cannot survive without US dollars.

You, like the orangutan-in-chief, really have no clue how a world economy works.

The US makes up only 19% of their trade. On top of that, they pretty much make a lot of stuff that the US couldn't get by without. They OTOH could easily get by without buying the poisonous trash that the US farm industry likes to call "food".


Also China lacks oil, most of which is produced by US, its allies in the ME or Russia.

How many allies do you think the US actually has in the ME? Which countries are likely to agree to US demands to embargo China vs the other way around? How many times has China been involved fomenting coups or pitting ME countries against one another while supplying both sides with arms? How many bible beating inbreds who believe Jews will play a critical part in end-times mythology do you think make up China's population, are in positions of power, and are dumb enough to support them militarily at all costs? Unlike the US, OPEC doesn't have as much of a reason to dick around with China as they do the US.

Same deal with supply chains. Do you fill your gas tank at one of the nearby stations or drive to the most remote one on the opposite side of the town/city from where you are?

China has no problem getting oil from Russia or the ME. Their leadership is also not constrained by term limits and short term thinking. Their increased oil dependence is something that comes with improved standards of living from their massive economic growth. It is also something that their leadership is also no doubt looking to reduce/minimize. China spends 3 times more money than the US on green energy/renewables.


Russia might cooperate with China, but dealing with the Ruskies comes with a price tag.

I'd ask for specifics, but choose to refrain since I'm doubtful of the quality of thought behind them.



Ends justifies means.

It's cute how people think Machiavelli is the guy who originated that idea and think it's such a novel concept. The problem is when stupid people apply that concept, they have a habit of not looking beyond the ends. Even worse is when idiots involved in some of these big decisions prove incapable of even properly assessing risk vs reward.

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq; no doubt a multitude of others.


If the US doesnt swat China now, it might be too late in the future. Fuсk our own people? Like how? In case of an armed conflict the biggest damage takers wont be people in the US. Also if you go to war with Russia, the most fuсked people will be the Europeans.

I'd ask you how would the US '"swat" China were it not for the fact that my estimation of your powers of thought places you somewhere in the "Cletus the slack-jawed yokel" category.

[greymatter]

If China and USA severely damage each other's economies with a full blown trade war/embargo, other economies will take advantage of the situation. Countries like Japan, India and Russia would swoop in and find ways to profit from it. Russia clearly gains if the top 2 economies target each other.

I'm highly doubtful of Russia's manufacturing infrastructure based on what they export.



Rank Russia's Export Product 2018 Value (US$) Change
1 Crude oil $129 billion +38.3%
2 Processed petroleum oils $78.1 billion +34.1%
3 Coal, solid fuels made from coal $17 billion +25.9%
4 Wheat $8.4 billion +45.6%
5 Iron or non-alloy steel products (semi-finished) $8 billion +31.9%
6 Petroleum gases $7.5 billion -82.7%
7 Aluminum (unwrought) $5.3 billion -2.1%
8 Diamonds (unmounted/unset) $5 billion +6.7%
9 Sawn wood $4.5 billion +12.9%
10 Refined copper, unwrought alloys $4.1 billion



They basically don't produce much of anything outside of energy. They do have one of the larger supplies of certain metals, such as palladium. In any case, I can't see the Russians ever becoming an economic powerhouse. The last time "Russian made" meant something was during the Cold War while they were spending ~20% of their GDP on military and still making Mig29's.

[fiddy]

Depends on the type of manufacturing jobs. That aside, it's clear you have no clue. Anyone with at least a casual interest in current events has at least read about some of the possible fallout scenarios from an expanded trade war. China has over 80% of the world's stockpile of rare earth materials that are crucial for manufacturing electronics.

Stockpiles or current production? AFAIK "rare" earths are not so rare, its just that nobody is willing to engage in the production of such because of the chemicals and radiation involved in extracting them. China doesnt give a flying fuсk about nature, that's the main reason they do the dirty work for the rest of world.




You, like the orangutan-in-chief, really have no clue how a world economy works.

The US makes up only 19% of their trade. On top of that, they pretty much make a lot of stuff that the US couldn't get by without. They OTOH could easily get by without buying the poisonous trash that the US farm industry likes to call "food".

Thats the US alone, how about the combined power of NATO and SE Asian US allies?



How many allies do you think the US actually has in the ME? Which countries are likely to agree to US demands to embargo China vs the other way around? How many times has China been involved fomenting coups or pitting ME countries against one another while supplying both sides with arms? How many bible beating inbreds who believe Jews will play a critical part in end-times mythology do you think make up China's population, are in positions of power, and are dumb enough to support them militarily at all costs? Unlike the US, OPEC doesn't have as much of a reason to dick around with China as they do the US.
The most important ones, as long as the Saudis and UAE are in US's sphere of influence, the Chinese are pretty much fuсked when in comes to hydrocarbons from the ME.



Same deal with supply chains. Do you fill your gas tank at one of the nearby stations or drive to the most remote one on the opposite side of the town/city from where you are?

When you are China, you basically live remotely to most gas stations.


China has no problem getting oil from Russia or the ME. Their leadership is also not constrained by term limits and short term thinking. Their increased oil dependence is something that comes with improved standards of living from their massive economic growth. It is also something that their leadership is also no doubt looking to reduce/minimize. China spends 3 times more money than the US on green energy/renewables.


Dealing with the Ruskies is unpleasant. In case of a conflict between Iran and US, the superpower that will suffer the most will be China, as their supply chain is heavily dependent on the strait of Hormutz.




I'd ask for specifics, but choose to refrain since I'm doubtful of the quality of thought behind them.



It's cute how people think Machiavelli is the guy who originated that idea and think it's such a novel concept. The problem is when stupid people apply that concept, they have a habit of not looking beyond the ends. Even worse is when idiots involved in some of these big decisions prove incapable of even properly assessing risk vs reward.

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq; no doubt a multitude of others.



I'd ask you how would the US '"swat" China were it not for the fact that my estimation of your powers of thought places you somewhere in the "Cletus the slack-jawed yokel" category.
How about WW1 and WW2?

[iamgine]

Well then prepare 2 graves. One for them and second for us. That's the only way trade wars go unless if you get lots of global support from many other nations to support you. Tell me why Canada or England or Australia or Germany or Japan or India or Israel or any of our allies/partners agree to embargo China alongside us?

It's obvious allies support is needed. This is already implied in the OP.

Again, the reason was already stated.

[ILLsmak]

Stockpiles or current production? AFAIK "rare" earths are not so rare, its just that nobody is willing to engage in the production of such because of the chemicals and radiation involved in extracting them. China doesnt give a flying fuсk about nature, that's the main reason they do the dirty work for the rest of world.






That's what I don't get is why people wanna think if shit happens in China it's all gud. Haha let them do the pollution and we'll take the finished product. Like it doesn't affect everyone. Well either way I think we have the stronger hand than China but it's true it's gonna be ugly if it goes down. We're basically posturing now. It's hard to imagine anyone but Trump or similar populists continuing to **** w China. So I don't think we have the staying power to accomplish it.

-Smak

[MaxFly]

And as we suck power out of China maybe our bitch ass allies might step up to the plate.

We're busy slapping tariffs and stirring up trade wars with our allies as well. They're not helping us with China. If anything, they probably view China as a check on us.

[bladefd]

It's obvious allies support is needed. This is already implied in the OP.

Again, the reason was already stated.

You won't get that support. Period, end of story.

Obama might stand better chance, but he would not succeed either. Bring back Abe Lincoln to life with his impeccable leadership or the supercharismatic JFK, and I doubt even he gets that support in 2019. Now you think Trump would get global support? Rofl.. [spits out drink]

[Smoke117]

http://i.imgur.com/8ZrgNon.jpg

[34-24 Footwork]

We're busy slapping tariffs and stirring up trade wars with our allies as well. They're not helping us with China. If anything, they probably view China as a check on us.


10000% true. Other countries are posturing and hedging their bets.

[ILLsmak]

We're busy slapping tariffs and stirring up trade wars with our allies as well. They're not helping us with China. If anything, they probably view China as a check on us.

That's true but only because the world has gone crazy. E40.jpg.

Everyone wants to be number one which makes sense. However like our last election, sometimes you gotta make a tough choice. The fact that they won't fall behind us and help destroy China when basically China is doing all the shit we don't want them to: stealing our shit, flooding our markets w cheapie goods, probably enabling North Korea, being fakn commies, etc.

I mean dudes being like I think we should be cool with China it's like nah. We gotta take our five ten year step back from excess and bleed them out. That's imo. I'm ready for that. For the good of the environment and human rights. But since everyone wants to come up, China is like a crack dealer. Someone is gonna buy their cheap shit. And nobody wants to side with us atm. They say it's cuz Trump but I dunno. Seems convenient. Sure they would not be opposed to us if we were doing everything they want, but they aren't gonna do us any favors. Which is what allies should do. If you have an ally that is a super power and they say do something, you should do it. Cuz that's what we need them as allies for, not like they're gonna send in troops to make a huge difference.

Edit: n I hope nobody has their "u don't get it" locked n loaded. "I'm not even supposed to be here." But to say how do we do it, fair point, we'd just have to change how we restribute wealth, cuz certain industries are gonna need investment. Makes as much sense as giving Medicare for all. This is theoretics, it won't happen. China prol will never overtake us and keep doing their shit, but remember all you pro China dudes that China is doing everything you're against. And there's no way to stop them atm

-Smak

[Nanners]

Is the US powerful enough to embargo China?

no

[MaxFly]

Also China lacks oil, most of which is produced by US, its allies in the ME or Russia. Russia might cooperate with China, but dealing with the Ruskies comes with a price tag.


Not only are many of the products and electronics we purchase and consume in the US made in China, but the same is true for Canada and our allies in Europe. The unnecessarily acrimonious relations that we have engaged in with our allies over the last 2 years leave them no will or reason to partner with us in stymying China.

As for oil, if we mess with China's access, Russia is almost sure to swoop in and capitalize. Also expect to see China and Iran become closer as a result.

[Nanners]

As for oil, if we mess with China's access, Russia is almost sure to swoop in and capitalize. Also expect to see China and Iran become closer as a result.

This is all true, but ultimately none of this will really matter if China keeps installing renewables at their current rate.

The Chinese are a very prideful civilization (for good reason, just look at their history), and the insane pollution in their flagship cities has recently been a huge source of embarrassment for them... which is why they have installed the most solar generation in the past half decade (by FAR), and will no doubt continue to do so.

Anyway, in the meantime while China isnt yet fully renewable, they can easily buy all the fossil fuels they need from their neighbor and ally Russia.

[MaxFly]

That's true but only because the world has gone crazy. E40.jpg.

Everyone wants to be number one which makes sense. However like our last election, sometimes you gotta make a tough choice. The fact that they won't fall behind us and help destroy China when basically China is doing all the shit we don't want them to: stealing our shit, flooding our markets w cheapie goods, probably enabling North Korea, being fakn commies, etc.

When the President of the United States is busy threatening tariffs on allies, it's unlikely that any of those allies will "fall behind us." We've poisoned the well of cooperation and should spend time fixing those relationships before asking for anything. It's like the kid who threatened to beat you up last week after school, but now he wants you to roll with him on some other kid that he can't take by himself.


I mean dudes being like I think we should be cool with China it's like nah. We gotta take our five ten year step back from excess and bleed them out. That's imo. I'm ready for that. For the good of the environment and human rights. But since everyone wants to come up, China is like a crack dealer. Someone is gonna buy their cheap shit. And nobody wants to side with us atm. They say it's cuz Trump but I dunno. Seems convenient. Sure they would not be opposed to us if we were doing everything they want, but they aren't gonna do us any favors. Which is what allies should do.

It's not about support for China. It's about what is reasonable and feasible... especially as it affects US companies, economies, and global markets. You want to see a recession worse than 2008... start an ill-advised embargo of China. There are so many problems with the idea. For starters, US companies that manufacture products in China would be severely harmed because the short turnaround and expense in shifting manufacturing to some other country would cripple many of them. You'd see massive job cuts across a number of sector, a shortage of goods, and immediate inflation.


If you have an ally that is a super power and they say do something, you should do it. Cuz that's what we need them as allies for, not like they're gonna send in troops to make a huge difference.

This would get us laughed out of almost any room and our plans summarily dismissed. From a historical perspective, it's easy to see what the problem with that sort of expectation would be.

[MaxFly]

This is all true, but ultimately none of this will really matter if China keeps installing renewables at their current rate.

The Chinese are a very prideful civilization (for good reason, just look at their history), and the insane pollution in their flagship cities has recently been a huge source of embarrassment for them... which is why they have installed the most solar generation in the past half decade (by FAR), and will no doubt continue to do so.

Anyway, in the meantime while China isnt yet fully renewable, they can easily buy all the fossil fuels they need from their neighbor and ally Russia.

Agreed. Incidentally, China's investment in renewables is exactly what we should be doing in the US. There should be a more robust national program and permanent tax credits available for installing solar panels and batteries on/in domestic housing in order to bolster and strengthen our electric grid. Ditto for electric vehicles. If we really want to mess with Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia, we should focus on reducing our reliance on petroleum at home and exporting more of our natural gas and oil in addition to our renewable technologies.

[fiddy]

[QUOTE]CHICAGO/LONDON (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Defense has held talks with Malawi

[Hawker]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-rareearths-pentagon-exclusive/exclusive-pentagon-eyes-rare-earth-supplies-in-africa-in-push-away-from-china-idUSKCN1T62S4

The first rare earth processing facility outside of China is being built in Texas.

[MaxFly]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-rareearths-pentagon-exclusive/exclusive-pentagon-eyes-rare-earth-supplies-in-africa-in-push-away-from-china-idUSKCN1T62S4

Great strategic move.

[BarberSchool]

Great strategic move.Rare Earths were China's one point of contention in this re-negotiation process, as they had complicit greedy sub-saharan african warlords selling their nations' mineral rights to the chinese at fire sale prices so they could live like playboys while their people reaped no benefit from such rarity.

We are gonna quickly reverse the tables on them, by making lucrative deals with the african nations. Gertler family and others who abused human rights in africa are out of our way due to 12/21/17 executive order. Now it's just us and China, and that isn't a fair fight.

Will be especially interesting to see how film studios portray the relationship between Africa and China in the coming years lol:roll:

[ILLsmak]

BTW shit post before game:

I never said embargo China just that we should put some pressure on them and our allies need to, too. They are too strong. We'd have some losses but it'd be worth it. Down w commies.

And yea I know we'd get laughed out of the room that's the point. That we're not moving as one is why China is eating shit up.

Like I said we all accept a loss for a few years and we could suplex China. But it's like being the one to lead a revolution nobody wants to go out there, get publicly hanged, then have nobody follow.

-Smak

[falc39]

BTW shit post before game:

I never said embargo China just that we should put some pressure on them and our allies need to, too. They are too strong. We'd have some losses but it'd be worth it. Down w commies.

And yea I know we'd get laughed out of the room that's the point. That we're not moving as one is why China is eating shit up.

Like I said we all accept a loss for a few years and we could suplex China. But it's like being the one to lead a revolution nobody wants to go out there, get publicly hanged, then have nobody follow.

-Smak

The problem with your thinking is you think China is the source of our nation’s economic problems. They aren’t. It’s actually hilarious how many of you got sucked into this propaganda so easily. Maybe China seems more strong because our country is getting weaker (by our own fault). And you propose that people all accept a loss so we can hurt another country that seems “too strong”? Lol, are you really any better than the communist?

[ILLsmak]

The problem with your thinking is you think China is the source of our nation’s economic problems. They aren’t. It’s actually hilarious how many of you got sucked into this propaganda so easily. Maybe China seems more strong because our country is getting weaker (by our own fault). And you propose that people all accept a loss so we can hurt another country that seems “too strong”? Lol, are you really any better than the communist?

Na I mean China is too strong for what a net negative they are on the world and environment. They have mad money in the US. I never said it was going to save our economy. We're OK atm.

It's more like having a parasite and starving yourself because you know you'll last longer than it does. If we can **** China even if China was decent, we'd gain because of the amount of debt we have to them.

But mainly I'm talking about taking an L for the sake of the world. China isn't the only bad egg, but they are the biggest.

We wanna come up off a country that's exploiting it's own people and shitting on the environment way worse than we could ever dream of? Ehh.

Other people have their own reasons for disliking China and maybe some are spreading propaganda to further their interest. But it's not about economy for me, it's about making the world a better place.

But we wanna continue being buddy buddy w them while there is no other country that is aligned w their way of doing world politics except other countries we recognize as bad eggs... Just because it benefits us in the short term. Not smart planning imo but I'll prol be dead by the time it matters a lot, you dudes can have the world u wanted.

-Smak

[MaxFly]

BTW shit post before game:

I never said embargo China just that we should put some pressure on them and our allies need to, too. They are too strong. We'd have some losses but it'd be worth it. Down w commies.

And yea I know we'd get laughed out of the room that's the point. That we're not moving as one is why China is eating shit up.

Like I said we all accept a loss for a few years and we could suplex China. But it's like being the one to lead a revolution nobody wants to go out there, get publicly hanged, then have nobody follow.

-Smak

Countries have followed us before and found themselves regretting their support... for example, Iraq. I think we're now well past countries blindly following superpowers. Unfortunately, we wasted much of the capital we had, and the acrimonious relationships this administration now has with many of our friends around the globe is wearing away at what little we had built up again.

On China... it's not just "accept a loss for a few years." Millions of people would lose their jobs for a prolonged time, and some jobs would never come back. I wish I were exaggerating. Rather, it would require decades of groundwork by US companies to minimize our pain in a standoff with China.

It's also important to remember that China holds 1 trillion dollars of US debt in bonds and treasury bills, not to mention trillions in real estate holdings and investments by Chinese individuals and businesses loyal to the Chinese government. If you were China, would you be able to leverage those holding against the US in the event of a severe and prolonged trade war? How would you do so?

[ILLsmak]

Countries have followed us before and found themselves regretting their support... for example, Iraq. I think we're now well past countries blindly following superpowers. Unfortunately, we wasted much of the capital we had, and the acrimonious relationships this administration now has with many of our friends around the globe is wearing away at what little we had built up again.

On China... it's not just "accept a loss for a few years." Millions of people would lose their jobs for a prolonged time, and some jobs would never come back. I wish I were exaggerating. Rather, it would require decades of groundwork by US companies to minimize our pain in a standoff with China.

It's also important to remember that China holds 1 trillion dollars of US debt in bonds and treasury bills, not to mention trillions in real estate holdings and investments by Chinese individuals and businesses loyal to the Chinese government. If you were China, would you be able to leverage those holding against the US in the event of a severe and prolonged trade war? How would you do so?

Believe me I understand, but my point is that we could turn shit inward yknow socialism haha. Nah but subsidize stuff until it's over. I mean the thing is: what are we gonna do?

And yea you're right we're not always great leaders but everyone benefits from this. It's like trying to denuclearize nk. We should be able to support each other and isolate China. Not embargo but just really chip at them. And I dono about the debt. I mean I do know it exists because I already posted about it, but I dunno how that gives them leverage over us, honestly. Maybe it does but they should have used it by now.

Eventually China is gonna have to be dealt with. It's like world War whatever, shit escalates and then people understand hundreds of thousands of people are going to die but they have to do it.

I don't know "the truth" like a lot of our higher ups do. The thing is they're all well and good w China. With access to that level Intel, our allies support, we could Def lean on China and I think we could support our own people for awhile until they broke. We need to find a way to manufacture without ****in the environment that doesn't cost way more.

That type of shit is what actually matters : resources, What u can produce, and military might. I mean I don't have a pH. D in this shite but I see there is a problem. So when you have a problem with no good solution do you.... Ignore it and hope it goes away or take the best of the choices?

Whatever we are doing is actually affecting China. I don't know how but it seems to at least be pissing them off.

-Smak