90' Blazers made Finals with Drexler at 18 ppg 3rd option (stacked), so how come..

[3ball]

they lost to the Pistons in 5 easy games, but the 89' and 90' Bulls took the Pistons 6 and 7 games with much thinner casts??? (basically beating them in 90' if not for migraine Pip)??..

This shows that MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st option Jerome Kersey (20 ppg).. That shows how much MJ elevated those Bulls

Btw, everyone in the Pistons' starting 5 was either all-nba, dpoy, or a 3x all-star in 1990.. And 1990 was a very stacked year overall - the stacked KJ-Suns demolished Magic's 1 seed but then lost to the stacked Blazers in WCF, who lost to the stacked Pistons in Finals - only the Bulls were competitive with the Pistons (essentially beating them except for Pip's migraine)


First 3 Rounds 1990 Playoffs

Kersey:. 21.7 on 45.9%
Porter:. 21.1 on 48.4%
Drexler:.19.8 on 40.9%
.

[RRR3]

Drexler was the first option on that team you babbling nincompoop.

[3ball]

Drexler was the first option on that team you babbling nincompoop.
He averaged 18 ppg for the first 3 rounds as 3rd option

So he made the Finals as 18 ppg third option

I wanted to add this tidbit to the OP but couldn't find an appropriate place

[Manny98]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

MJ has been retired for 16 years lol move on

[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

MJ has been retired for 16 years lol move on
Long retired

But still the goat and superior to today's players, and therefore relevant

[bigkingsfan]

How come the Bulls get swept and the Celts got taken to 7 the next round vs 0 all star

[3ball]

How come the Bulls get swept and the Celts got taken to 7 the next round vs 0 all star
IDK ask a Celtics fan why they got taken 7

But that Milwaukee team was the best group of teams that franchise ever had - 1987 proved this, when they took the goat Celts 7 games, despite the bucks' HOF core past their prime

[FireDavidKahn]

He averaged 18 ppg for the first 3 rounds as 3rd option

So he made the Finals as 18 ppg third option

I wanted to add this tidbit to the OP but couldn't find an appropriate place
The **** you getting your stats from?

He averaged 19.8 ppg, 7 rpg, 7.4 apg, 2.8 spg and 1.1 bpg before the series with the Pistons.

Then against the Pistons he averaged 26.4 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.2 bpg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01/gamelog/1990

[bigkingsfan]

IDK ask a Celtics fan why they got taken 7

But that Milwaukee team was the best group of teams that franchise ever had - 1987 proved this, when they took the goat Celts 7 games, despite the bucks' HOF core past their prime
50 wins 4th seed is their best version ever because they took GOAT Celtics to 7?

In that case, Legoat beat a 73 win dynasty.

[3ball]

50 wins 4th seed is their best version ever because they took GOAT Celtics to 7?

In that case, Legoat beat a 73 win dynasty.


That core of bucks players was the best they ever had

They were past their prime but almost beat the Celts.. :bowdown:

[scuzzy]

The **** you getting your stats from?

He averaged 19.8 ppg, 7 rpg, 7.4 apg, 2.8 spg and 1.1 bpg before the series with the Pistons.

Then against the Pistons he averaged 26.4 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.2 bpg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01/gamelog/1990
:roll:

[bigkingsfan]

That core of bucks players was the best they ever had

They were past their prime but almost beat the Celts.. :bowdown:
Zero all star, yikes.

[3ball]

The **** you getting your stats from?

He averaged 19.8 ppg, 7 rpg, 7.4 apg, 2.8 spg and 1.1 bpg before the series with the Pistons.

Then against the Pistons he averaged 26.4 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.2 bpg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01/gamelog/1990



You're splitting hairs - Drexler was 3rd option:



First 3 Rounds 1990 Playoffs

Kersey:. 21.7 on 45.9%
Porter:. 21.1 on 48.4%
Drexler:.19.8 on 40.9%


Now go read the OP

And just think - when the hell did mj win ANY series with 19 on 41%, let alone make the damn Finals.. blazers were staaaaacked

[RRR3]

So because Drexler struggled through the first three rounds he suddenly wasn’t the first option? :oldlol:

[3ball]

So because Drexler struggled through the first three rounds he suddenly wasn’t the first option? :oldlol:
MJ wishes he could be aids for 3 rounds and still make the Finals.. :rolleyes:

When did mj win ANY series with 19 on 41%, let alone make the damn Finals.. :biggums:

blazers were staaaaacked... :bowdown:

[RRR3]

When the hell did mj win ANY series with 19 on 41%, let alone make the damn Finals.. :biggums:

blazers were staaaaacked... :bowdown:
How were they stacked? Kersey never made an all-star team. Terry Porter was a star but you can

[Smoke117]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

MJ has been retired for 16 years lol move on

/thread

[RRR3]

Smoke you know about old school ball.

How insane is it to claim Drexler was the 3rd option?

[Smoke117]

Smoke you know about old school ball.

How insane is it to claim Drexler was the 3rd option?

Pretty odd when you are the 3rd option, but taking the most shots in every single one of these "three rounds" knucklehead OP is talking about. He just didn't shoot particularly well throughout these first 3 rounds. This is besides the point that he's lying about the numbers. Drexler averaged 19.8ppg so essentially 20 in the first three rounds of the 90 playoffs. It's kind of pathetic how OP has to lie to raise up a guy who is already considered the best player of all time. I just hope he stays away from the man. I don't want to see a Robert Deniro in The Fan situation happen some day. Oh wait, he did actually put that in his stupid post. (I completely skipped it as I usually do with everything he post) Why would you put 18ppg in the title and then correctly put that he averaged 19.8ppg in your post? Seek attention much?

[Kblaze8855]

You believe Kersey was the blazers best player or are you using “option” to sidestep having to say that?

Anyway....Drexler took the most shots in all 4 rounds. Shooting worse than usual doesn’t mean he wasn’t the first option. The first option is the guy your sets are designed to get in position to score. That was Drexler and to a lesser extent Terry Porter. Kersey was more opportunistic.

He was something like Shawn Marion. He might score 22 points but it isn’t off being a first option. Kersey could score too but he wasnt the man or anything.

Terry porter might have been on Clydes heels at times especially in the clutch but Kersey leading them in scoring doesn’t mean he was the true first option.

[3ball]

Smoke you know about old school ball.

How insane is it to claim Drexler was the 3rd option?
Everyone knows that Drexler was the franchise player

But I'm making a statistical point... Statistically, Drexler was the 3rd option for the first 3 rounds, despite being the team leader

Ultimately, his 3rd option status statistically, while making the Finals with 19 on 41% demonstrates how stacked the Blazers were

Yet they were no match for the Bad Boys, while MJ all but beat em' .. this shows how much MJ did what everyone was said he should do - elevate his cast - MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st option Jerome Kersey (20 ppg)..

That shows how much MJ elevated those Bulls.. you should undertand that no one gave 2 bird shits that MJ had a weaker cast than Bird and Magic - he simply needed to "elevate his cast" like they did to be considered on their level - this was the narrative - so he did it.. GOAT... :confusedshrug:.

[RRR3]

Kersey wasn’t the first option and Kevin Duckworth’s advanced stats suggest he was a truly awful player. Never seen an all star (besides “legacy selections”) with advanced stats that bad.

[Kblaze8855]

So....who was the first option this game?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200102030CLE.html


Stackhouse or Joe Smith?

The only consideration is leading scorer it appears. Joe was first option that game....right?

[3ball]

Kersey wasn’t the first option and Kevin Duckworth’s advanced stats suggest he was a truly awful player. Never seen an all star (besides “legacy selections”) with advanced stats that bad.
Okay I'll change the wording - Drexler was the 3rd place scorer on his team for the first 3 rounds

Ultimately, Drexler's 3rd place scoring, while making the Finals with 19 on 41% demonstrates how stacked the Blazers were

Yet they were no match for the Bad Boys, while MJ basically beat em' if not for migraine .. this shows that MJ did what everyone was said he should do - elevate his cast - MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st option Jerome Kersey (20 ppg)..

you should undertand that no one gave 2 bird shits that MJ had a weaker cast than Bird and Magic - he simply needed to "elevate his cast" like they did to be considered on their level - this was the narrative - so he did it.. GOAT... :confusedshrug:.

[RRR3]

Okay I'll change the wording - Drexler was the 3rd place scorer on his team for the first 3 rounds

Ultimately, Drexler's 3rd place scoring, while making the Finals with 19 on 41% demonstrates how stacked the Blazers were

Yet they were no match for the Bad Boys, while MJ basically beat em' if not for migraine .. this shows that MJ did what everyone was said he should do - elevate his cast - MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st option Jerome Kersey (20 ppg)..

you should undertand that no one gave 2 bird shits that MJ had a weaker cast than Bird and Magic - he simply needed to "elevate his cast" like they did to be considered on their level - this was the narrative - so he did it.. GOAT... :confusedshrug:.
:yaohappy:






And stop talking about Duckworth like he was any good.

[SouBeachTalents]

So....who was the first option this game?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200102030CLE.html


Stackhouse or Joe Smith?

The only consideration is leading scorer it appears. Joe was first option that game....right?
:biggums: 7/34 :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

:biggums: 7/34 :oldlol:


First game that came to mind.

I don

[3ball]

So....who was the first option this game?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200102030CLE.html


Stackhouse or Joe Smith?

The only consideration is leading scorer it appears. Joe was first option that game....right?
Why are you splitting hairs over wording? You aren't autistic and you know what I mean

Drexler was the 3rd place scorer on his team for the first 3 rounds.. His 3rd place scoring, while making the Finals with 19 on 41% demonstrates how stacked the Blazers were

Yet they were no match for the Bad Boys, while MJ basically beat em' if not for migraine .. this shows that MJ did what everyone was said he should do - elevate his cast - MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st place scorer Jerome Kersey (22 ppg)..

you already know - no one gave a shit that MJ had a weaker cast than Bird and Magic - he simply needed to "elevate his cast" like they did to be considered on their level.. This was the narrative - so he did it.. GOAT... :confusedshrug:.

[Kblaze8855]

I know what you said and I know you said it again when questioned.

You just insist on bullshit supporting arguments and they usually stand out.

And then you repost them again and again because you copy/paste instead of having conversations as if you’re gonna force someone to respond to things with glaringly obvious issues you refuse to address yourself.

Talking about autism....like the constant repeating yourself isn’t a symptom.

Nobody gives a shit about addressing your “points” when they are smeared in bullshit arguments. The bullshit argument is what draws the eye.

[RRR3]

3ball you like stats. Here’s one for you:

Kevin Duckworth never had a single season with a positive or even neutral VORP. All-star doe.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]3ball you like stats. Here

[3ball]

I know what you said and I know you said it again when questioned.

You just insist on bullshit supporting arguments and they usually stand out.

And then you repost them again and again because you copy/paste instead of having conversations as if you’re gonna force someone to respond to things with glaringly obvious issues you refuse to address yourself.

Talking about autism....like the constant repeating yourself isn’t a symptom.

Nobody gives a shit about addressing your “points” when they are smeared in bullshit arguments. The bullshit argument is what draws the eye.
This isn't a thread to complain about posting style - address the points being made.. you're a mod but among the worst derailers there is

Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer on his team

That means the Blazers were stacked with a far better cast than the Bulls - but mj elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career - MJ was goat at elevating teammates

[RRR3]

You value VORP, but it means nothing

People thought Duck was a really good player and the Blazers ran offense through him on the block
Fine. We’ll use offensive BPM, which according to you is a good stat: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460908


Duckworth has a career OBPM of -2.6 and never had a single season with a positive or even neutral OBPM. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duckwke01.html



All-star doe

[Smoke117]

You value VORP, but it means nothing

People thought Duck was a really good player and the Blazers ran offense through him on the block

Michael Jordan led the league in VORP seven straight years. Mean something now that it props up your lover?

[Kblaze8855]

The title of this topic says the blazers made the finals with Drexler as a third option. When you don

[Smoke117]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]The title of this topic says the blazers made the finals with Drexler as a third option. When you don

[3ball]

Fine. We’ll use offensive BPM, which according to you is a good stat: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460908


Duckworth has a career OBPM of -2.6 and never had a single season with a positive or even neutral OBPM. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duckwke01.html



All-star doe
Duckworth was one of the best centers in the conference, and Porter one of the best PG's in the league

Then there was 22 ppg Kersey and 1st team defender Buck Williams (3x all-star). HOF Drazen Petrovic was riding the bench at 6 ppg, and future all-star and all-defender Cliff Robinson rounded out the core

This cast allowed Drexler to make the 90' Finals with 19 on 41%, and obviously destroys the Bulls' cast.. But mj elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career - MJ was goat at elevating teammates

[Smoke117]

Fine. We’ll use offensive BPM, which according to you is a good stat: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460908


Duckworth has a career OBPM of -2.6 and never had a single season with a positive or even neutral OBPM. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duckwke01.html



All-star doe

lol OP's MO. Raise up everyone on opposing teams while shitting on everyone of Jordan's teammates. Duckworth was complete garbage compared to someone like Horace Grant, but 3ball here will have you believe he was mediocre was just basically just along for the ride and carried to 3 championships.

[3ball]

lol OP's MO. Raise up everyone on opposing teams while shitting on everyone of Jordan's teammates. Duckworth was complete garbage compared to someone like Horace Grant, but 3ball here will have you believe he was mediocre was just basically just along for the ride and carried to 3 championships.
Horace inept offense forced MJ to average more than anyone ever did in the playoffs, by far

But if MJ had Duckworth, he could've scored about 27 ppg instead of 34, and had the energy to be dpoy every year, while getting a few more assists too

You guys simply ignore the most important aspect of the game - scoring - because MJ was goat at it

[NBAGOAT]

I think duckworth is garbage too. Just a bad option to go to in the half court, can

[Smoke117]

Horace inept offense forced MJ to average more than anyone ever did in the playoffs, by far

But if MJ had Duckworth, he could've scored about 27 ppg instead of 34, and had the energy to be dpoy every year, while getting a few more assists too

You guys simply ignore the most important aspect of the game - scoring - because MJ was goat at it

lol right. Duckworth averaged 13.1ppg on 12.5 shots in the 90 playoffs and 11.1ppg on 10.5 shots in the 92 playoffs. This is the guy who was gonna make it so Jordan could just average 27ppg huh? This is also setting aside the fact that Grant was 10 times the defensive player, but okay.

[Smoke117]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]I think duckworth is garbage too. Just a bad option to go to in the half court, can

[3ball]

Anyways you proved Jordan is better than drexler



No, I showed that Drexler made the Finals with 19 on 41% as the team's 3rd place scorer - this means the Blazers were stacked with a far better cast than the 90' Bulls

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career - MJ was goat at elevating teammates..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals... :rolleyes:





I think duckworth is garbage too. Just a bad option to go to in the half court, can’t rebound or defend well. Like the Chris Kaman of his era. If he gets replaced by like your average 90s center, por might pass Seattle as the best defense Jordan’s faced in the finals. Only made it because Hakeem was injured. I don’t think kersey was Marion either. Beast in transition but his half court game was mostly spot up mid range twos he wasn’t even too good at. Porter and buck quite good tbf.


What a joke of a post.. Hakeem was a career loser except for 3 years.. lol at him being some sort of lock for the Finals

And the game goes deeper than stats... It's no surprise that the blazers best years coincided with Duckworth's prime - a good center was important back then

teams back then needed a post presence to be competitive.. It was needed to put effective pressure on an opponent's defense, just like today's teams need 3-pt shooting to put pressure on a defense.. without these era-specific things to put pressure on a defense, the opponent doesn't get worn down and their attack not blunted, so they will get comfortable and go off like the Spurs in the 14' Finals - that happened because of defense, but also because the Heat didn't mount effective offense to wear them down and blunt their attack.. Spurs were comfortable as hell on defense, so they went gangbusters on O.. essentially, without a baseline level of effective offense, you can't compete in a basketball game - Duckworth was a 2-time all-star and more of a post presence than most teams had

So long story short - the Blazers needed a good post presence to have an effective offense and compete at a high level back then, just like today's teams need 3-point shooting to be effective at a high level today. Duckworth was that guy - without him, the Blazers' offense couldn't apply enough pressure on opponents to be competitive

[RRR3]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Fine. We

[3ball]

Respond to this, 3ball. No copy paste. Actually respond to it. By your own logic, Duckworth was trash offensively.
See the 2nd part of the previous post/response to NBAGOAT (post #43)

It's a tad long because I'm explaining why stats don't matter, but hang in there.. it's the truth

[Kblaze8855]

I kinda liked Kevin Duckworth.

As a total player worse than Grant because defense and rebounding exist...but I liked him. I tend to like guys who play a little weird. That jumper and I get along.

[RRR3]

See the 2nd part of the previous post/response to NBAGOAT (post #43)

It's a tad long because I'm explaining why stats don't matter, but hang in there.. it's the truth
Except you literally said OBPM was a good stat. So by your own logic Duckworth was trash offensively.

[Smoke117]

Except you literally said OBPM was a good stat. So by your own logic Duckworth was trash offensively.

Stats are only good when they relate to his deity, bro.

[3ball]

Except you literally said OBPM was a good stat. So by your own logic Duckworth was trash offensively.
It's a good stat but not the only one

These stats are all based on ortg, and Duckworth's is low for a big, just like Alonzo Mourning and Embiid even

Doesn't mean he wasn't a good, valuable player.. just means his ortg was low.. it's just 1 stat.. he had other stats and accolades coupled with team success that show he's good

[RRR3]

It's a good stat but not the only one

These stats are all based on ortg, and Duckworth's is low for a big, just like Alonzo Mourning and Embiid even

Doesn't mean he wasn't a good, valuable player.. just means his ortg was low.. it's just 1 stat.. he had other stats and accolades coupled with team success that show he's good
Except ALL of Duckworth

[NBAGOAT]

No, I showed that Drexler made the Finals with 19 on 41% as the team's 3rd place scorer - this means the Blazers were stacked with a far better cast than the 90' Bulls

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career - MJ was goat at elevating teammates..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals... :rolleyes:



What a joke of a post.. Hakeem was a career loser except for 3 years.. lol at him being some sort of lock for the Finals

And the game goes deeper than stats... It's no surprise that the blazers best years coincided with Duckworth's prime - a good center was important back then

teams back then needed a post presence to be competitive.. It was needed to put effective pressure on an opponent's defense, just like today's teams need 3-pt shooting to put pressure on a defense.. without these era-specific things to put pressure on a defense, the opponent doesn't get worn down and their attack not blunted, so they will get comfortable and go off like the Spurs in the 14' Finals - that happened because of defense, but also because the Heat didn't mount effective offense to wear them down and blunt their attack.. Spurs were comfortable as hell on defense, so they went gangbusters on O.. essentially, without a baseline level of effective offense, you can't compete in a basketball game - Duckworth was a 2-time all-star and more of a post presence than most teams had

So long story short - the Blazers needed a good post presence to have an effective offense and compete at a high level back then, just like today's teams need 3-point shooting to be effective at a high level today. Duckworth was that guy - without him, the Blazers' offense couldn't apply enough pressure on opponents to be competitive

i meant the all star game einstein, not the finals Lol. Hakeem would've made it easily if he wasnt injured. I just disagree, a better defender does more for that team. Even with duckworth, they werent a very good half court scoring team(among contenders). Drexler and porter are options I still prefer anyway along with that spot up shooting as another option from kersey.

[3ball]

I kinda liked Kevin Duckworth.

As a total player worse than Grant because defense and rebounding exist...but I liked him. I tend to like guys who play a little weird. That jumper and I get along.
even if you DON'T think Duckworth > Horace...

Buck Williams > Horace, and they play the same position (PF)

Duckworth at center > Cartwright

That's how stacked the blazers were, which is why Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer on his team.. he had a far better cast than MJ

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...

[RRR3]

even if you DON'T think Duckworth > Horace...

Buck Williams > Horace, and they play the same position (PF)

Duckworth at center > Cartwright

That's how stacked the blazers were, which is why Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer on his team.. he had a far better cast than MJ

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...
Duckworth sucked ass offensively by your own logic (OBPM). At least be consistent.

[NBAGOAT]

even if you DON'T think Duckworth > Horace...

Buck Williams > Horace, and they play the same position (PF)

Duckworth at center > Cartwright

That's how stacked the blazers were, which is why Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer on his team.. he had a far better cast than MJ

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...

the irony is you usually only look at the top 2-3 guys on a team calling the others irrelevant yet now when's it beneficial to you, you look at the other starters. Your main problem is pippen is quite a bit better than porter and/or kersey, young or not.

Again it's a stupid comparison, drexler usually wasnt even a top 5 player in the league. Ofc you ignore Barkley or Hakeem or Drob's casts because you know that argument is weak lol. Like yea gary payton might have an argument for a better cast than some MJ bulls years too, no one's comparing jordan and mid 90s payton however

[RRR3]

I encourage people to check out Kevin Duckworth’s advanced stats. They are absolutely horrifyingly bad.

[NBAGOAT]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I encourage people to check out Kevin Duckworth

[3ball]

The irony is you usually only look at the top 2-3 guys on a team calling the others irrelevant yet now when's it beneficial to you, you look at the other starters. Your main problem is pippen is quite a bit better than porter and/or kersey, young or not.


you have to look at the blazers' 3rd, 4th, and 5th guys because they're all-star, all-defenders, or both

Again, those blazers were stacked, which is why Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer





is pippen is quite a bit better than porter and/or kersey, young or not.



90' Pippen was still garbage and not better than Porter or Kersey:



Porter. vs Pistons 90' Finals... 19.0.. 2.6.. 8.4.. 58.8% TS
Kersey vs Pistons 90' Finals... 19.0.. 8.0.. 1.2.. 53.9% TS
Pippen vs Pistons 90' ECF...... 16.6.. 6.3.. 3.7.. 52.0% TS


So the Blazers had 2 guys equal or better than Pip, and also 1st team defender and 3x all-star Buck Williams was better too... Again, staaaaaacked





Again it's a stupid comparison, drexler usually wasnt even a top 5 player in the league. Ofc you ignore Barkley or Hakeem or Drob's casts because you know that argument is weak lol. Like yea gary payton might have an argument for a better cast than some MJ bulls years too, no one's comparing jordan and mid 90s payton however
Drexler was 1st team all-nba and runner-up for MVP in 1992 and a lot of people thought he would win it over Mike - so ur wrong - Drexler was a top 5 player

And it's common knowledge that Barkley's 93' Suns had the most stacked team in the league

Of course MJ also beat Shaq/Penny and perennial #2 Malone.... Oh, and he was a Pip migraine away from going 2-2 versus the Bad Boys dynasty, as an underdog

[NBAGOAT]

you have to look at the blazers' 3rd, 4th, and 5th guys because they're all-star, all-defenders, or both

Again, those blazers were stacked, which is why Drexler made the Finals averaging 19 on 41% as the 3rd place scorer




90' Pippen was still garbage and not better than Porter or Kersey:



Porter. vs Pistons 90' Finals... 19.0.. 2.6.. 8.4.. 58.8% TS
Kersey vs Pistons 90' Finals... 19.0.. 8.0.. 1.2.. 53.9% TS
Pippen vs Pistons 90' ECF...... 16.6.. 6.3.. 3.7.. 52.0% TS


So the Blazers had 2 guys equal or better than Pip, and also 1st team defender and 3x all-star Buck Williams was better too... Again, staaaaaacked





Drexler was 1st team all-nba and runner-up for MVP in 1992 and a lot of people thought he would win it over Mike - so ur wrong - Drexler was a top 5 player

And it's common knowledge that Barkley's 93' Suns had the most stacked team in the league

Of course MJ also beat Shaq/Penny and perennial #2 Malone.... Oh, and he was a Pip migraine away from going 2-2 versus the Bad Boys dynasty, as an underdog[/QUOTE]

well i said most years lol. He was top 5 in 92 and but that point everyone else had declined. duckworth was a 11ppg guy and kersey was a 13ppg guy and porter wasnt even an all star. Would you look at that a finals team with only one all star, by your own standards that isnt a stacked team. Also name another year you think drexler was top 5, it's really hard finding one.

You throw in stuff like Pip migraine never accounting for other teams injuries, ofc another double standard. He beat malone but I'm taking pippen over stockton many years. Shaq/Penny were indeed talented but grant was injured and their other two mains guys anderson and scott shot a combined 18/63. If the Bulls 3rd and 4th guys played that poorly, you bring it up whenever you could. A double standard which is a popular thing coming from you.

It's irrelevant anyway.

[RRR3]

ik about it haha. Why I brought up Chris Kaman as a comparison, I really think it's not a bad comparison. Some nice postmoves and serviceable jumper but really not helping your team much at all. Kaman could rebound better however.
At least Kaman had a positive VORP some years :lol


Man I didn’t realize how horrendous Kaman’s OBPM was. Eesh.

[3ball]

well i said most years lol. He was top 5 in 92 and but that point everyone else had declined. duckworth was a 11ppg guy and kersey was a 13ppg guy and porter wasnt even an all star. Would you look at that a finals team with only one all star, by your own standards that isnt a stacked team. Also name another year you think drexler was top 5, it's really hard finding one.

You throw in stuff like Pip migraine never accounting for other teams injuries, ofc another double standard. He beat malone but I'm taking pippen over stockton many years. Shaq/Penny were indeed talented but grant was injured and their other two mains guys anderson and scott shot a combined 18/63. If the Bulls 3rd and 4th guys played that poorly, you bring it up whenever you could. A double standard which is a popular thing coming from you.

It's irrelevant anyway.
Okay, back on topic - the 90' Blazers were stacked to the brim, which is why Drexler made the Finals with only 19 on 41% as 3rd option

he had a far better cast than MJ

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...

[Vino24]

Drexler was just better at elevating his teammates than MJ

[NBAGOAT]

Okay, back on topic - the 90' Blazers were stacked to the brim, which is why Drexler made the Finals with only 19 on 41% as 3rd option

he had a far better cast than MJ

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...

translation: I dont know how to continue so I'm regurgitating my old points.

Drexler and the Blazers have little relation to how good mj is. As I said, drexler wasnt even a top 5 player that year(Ewing, Drob, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem etc) so comparing them doesnt work. Teams that dont have a top tier player are/seem more stacked too maybe because for one more shots are spread around and they have to be good at every position to be an elite team. Rasheed and Webber had more help around them than shaq did in 00 and 02, so what it's a flawed way of comparing those teams. Neither were as good as Kobe.

Just stick with looking at how Mj played and your lazy use of box score statlines, it supports your agenda better anyway.

Finally one series isnt that conclusive. The Celtics in 08 lost in 7 to the hawks and cavs but in 6 to the pistons and lakers. Which group of teams is better. The Spurs in 14 only needed 7 to beat the Mavs and that's likely the worst team they faced that year etc. It's a statistical fact that if two teams are completely even matched and playing a bo7 on a neutral court, that series has a 1/8 chance of ending in a sweep. Shit happens in those small playoff sample sizes

[RRR3]

translation: I dont know how to continue so I'm regurgitating my old points.

Drexler and the Blazers have little relation to how good mj is. As I said, drexler wasnt even a top 5 player that year(Ewing, Drob, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem etc) so comparing them doesnt work. Teams that dont have a top tier player are/seem more stacked too maybe because for one more shots are spread around and they have to be good at every position to be an elite team. Rasheed and Webber had more help around them than shaq did in 00 and 02, so what it's a flawed way of comparing those teams. Neither were as good as Kobe.

Just stick with looking at how Mj played and your lazy use of box score statlines, it supports your agenda better anyway.

Finally one series isnt that conclusive. The Celtics in 08 lost in 7 to the hawks and cavs but in 6 to the pistons and lakers. Which group of teams is better. The Spurs in 14 only needed 7 to beat the Mavs and that's likely the worst team they faced that year etc. It's a statistical fact that if two teams are completely even matched and playing a bo7 on a neutral court, that series has a 1/8 chance of ending in a sweep. Shit happens in those small playoff sample sizes
That

[3ball]

translation: I dont know how to continue so I'm regurgitating my old points.

Drexler and the Blazers have little relation to how good mj is. As I said, drexler wasnt even a top 5 player that year(Ewing, Drob, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem etc) so comparing them doesnt work.

Finally one series isnt that conclusive. The Celtics in 08 lost in 7 to the hawks and cavs but in 6 to the pistons and lakers. Which group of teams is better. The Spurs in 14 only needed 7 to beat the Mavs and that's likely the worst team they faced that year etc. It's a statistical fact that if two teams are completely even matched and playing a bo7 on a neutral court, that series has a 1/8 chance of ending in a sweep. Shit happens in those small playoff sample sizes
I'm not comparing MJ to Drexler - I'm comparing their CASTS

And the 90' Blazers had a far better cast than the Bulls, which allowed Drexler to make the Finals with only 19 on 41% as 3rd option

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

And it wasn't just 1 series - mj's 89' Bulls played the Pistons tougher than Drexler's 90' Blazers, and also tougher than any other Piston opponent in 89' or 90'.. :confusedshrug:
.

[Smoke117]

I'm not comparing MJ to Drexler - I'm comparing their CASTS

And the 90' Blazers had a far better cast than the Bulls, which allowed Drexler to make the Finals with only 19 on 41% as 3rd option

But MJ elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

Btw, Drexler's 19 on 41% shows that his 90' cast was more stacked than ANY bulls team - MJ couldn't win a single series with those stats, let alone make the damn Finals...

Okay, I agree, that's true. So what? Is it really worth this kind of mindless obsession? Does Jordan have some kind of blood curse over you or something? You are obsessing about a man WHO SHOT A ORANGE BALL INTO A RED HOOP. It's just a game, sweetheart. It's not that important. You post like it's life or death if we don't fall to our knees in front of your task master. You have been doing this for YEARS. There is clearly something mentally wrong with you. That's not an opinion either. That's a fact.

[1987_Lakers]

3ball, if you actually followed basketball back then you would know that the early 90's Blazers although talented, were known as a low IQ and self destructive team.

[3ball]

Okay, I agree, that's true. So what? Is it really worth this kind of mindless obsession? Does Jordan have some kind of blood curse over you or something? You are obsessing about a man WHO SHOT A ORANGE BALL INTO A RED HOOP. It's just a game, sweetheart. It's not that important. You post like it's life or death if we don't fall to our knees in front of your task master. You have been doing this for YEARS. There is clearly something mentally wrong with you. That's not an opinion either. That's a fact.
You guys have been on here posting longer than me, and most of you aren't even ball players, so this is just a random thing that you picked up and posted 20k times about

At least I've dunked on hundreds (thousands?) of dudes.. I have more of a vested interest in this shit than most posters on here

And no one has to bowdown to anything.. the first sentence of your post will suffice

[3ball]

3ball, if you actually followed basketball back then you would know that the early 90's Blazers although talented, were known as a low IQ and self destructive team.
Perhaps

But still made the Finals with Drexler at 19 on 41%.... staaaaaaaacked

I agree with you though - if they were talented enough to make the Finals with Drexler at 19 on 41, then they would've won every single year with MJ

[RRR3]

3ball why are you avoiding admitting Duckworth was trash by your own logic (OBPM)?


Stop being a coward.

[3ball]

3ball why are you avoiding admitting Duckworth was trash by your own logic (OBPM)?


Stop being a coward.
Duckworth, Zo and other bigs had suboptimal offense.. ball-dominant centers, if you will, with few moves, although Duck had amazing touch around the rim

But they were still critical players - not having a post presence back then was like not having 3-pt shooting today.

And given that Duck was an all-star but only their 5th best player shows you how stacked the Blazers were, which is the point of the thread.. Blazers had a much better cast than the 90' Bulls - but MJ elevated his inferior cast to nearly beat the Pistons, while the blazers were blown away.

And it wasn't just 1 series - mj's 89' Bulls played the Pistons tougher than Drexler's 90' Blazers too, and also tougher than any other Piston opponent in 89' or 90'.. :bowdown:
.

[SpaceJam2]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

MJ has been retired for 16 years lol move on

[Smoke117]

3ball why are you avoiding admitting Duckworth was trash by your own logic (OBPM)?


Stop being a coward.

His argument is hilarious when you realize Bill Cartwright was basically a rich man's Duckworth who had averaged 22ppg and 20ppg on the Knicks on great efficiency (something Duckworth never did) andthen was just a regular role player on the Bulls.

[3ball]

His argument is hilarious when you realize Bill Cartwright was basically a rich man's Duckworth who had averaged 22ppg and 20ppg on the Knicks on great efficiency (something Duckworth never did) andthen was just a regular role player on the Bulls.
^^^ As a rookie and 2nd year player in the 70's

But he was at 11/5 for the knicks in 88', which increased to 12/7 for the bulls in 89'

[RRR3]

His argument is hilarious when you realize Bill Cartwright was basically a rich man's Duckworth who had averaged 22ppg and 20ppg on the Knicks on great efficiency (something Duckworth never did) andthen was just a regular role player on the Bulls.
Yep. I’ll use some stats since 3ball likes them. He’s been taking about PER and OBPM so let’s use those. We’ll throw in TS% too

Cartwright the year before joining the Bulls: 17.8 PER, 0.8 OBPM, 63.9 TS%

Cartwright the next season on the Bulls: 11.0 PER, -3.5 OBPM, 53.5 TS%


Looks like MJ ball destoyed Cartwright :facepalm

[RRR3]

^^^ As a rookie and 2nd year player in the 70's

But he was at 11/5 for the knicks in 88', which increased to 12/7 for the bulls in 89'
He played 9.5 more MPG on the Bulls you clown. His stats were faaaaaaar better before MJ ball ruined his career.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Yep. I

[RRR3]

Because he played 9.5 more MPG you ****ing troll.

1987-88 (pre MJ): per 36 of 19.6 PTS/8.2 REB, decent to solid advanced stats

1988-89 (MJ) per 36 of 14.9 and 8.0, horrible advanced stats

[3ball]

Because he played 9.5 more MPG you ****ing troll.

1987-88 (pre MJ): per 36 of 19.6 PTS/8.2 REB, decent to solid advanced stats

1988-89 (MJ) per 36 of 14.9 and 8.0, horrible advanced stats
Both are the stats of a scrub

MJ carried bums

The 89' bulls won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without mj's 33/8/8.. that same lottery cast from 89' began a three-peat from 91'-93'..

so the 94' squad didn't win based on talent - they were a lottery cast that won because they'd developed the know-how, teamwork, and brand of ball required of any dynasty

[RRR3]

Maybe the Bulls would have won more if MJ used Cartwright to his full potential instead of making him a spot up shooter.

[3ball]

Maybe the Bulls would have won more if MJ used Cartwright to his full potential instead of making him a spot up shooter.
Cartwright was a scrub so no.. he didn't have enough impact on any game, except on D

[RRR3]

Cartwright was a scrub so no.. he didn't have enough impact on any game, except on D
19.6 points per 36 minutes on elite efficiency before MJ ruined him. Looks like someone with value on offense to me :confusedshrug:

[bigkingsfan]

MJ played with someone 23 ppg 55%. Basically better than all those bums.

[3ball]

19.6 points per 36 minutes on elite efficiency before MJ ruined him. Looks like someone with value on offense to me :confusedshrug:
Scrub a dub-dub

Cartscrub

Scrubwright

I like the third one

[RRR3]

Scrub a dub-dub

Cartscrub

Scrubwright

I like the third one
How was he a scrub with those numbers?

It

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]How was he a scrub with those numbers?

It

[RRR3]

Those are scrub numbers and carwright was a massive scrub

Like, really massive
Explain how 19.6 PTS per 36 minutes on elite efficiency with a 0.9 BPM (0.8 OBPM) and 17.8 PER are “massive scrub numbers”

BTW the year before that when Cartwright got major minutes he put up 17.5 and 7.7 on elite efficiency with a 17.1 PER and a 0.8 BPM (1.3 OBPM)

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Explain how 19.6 PTS per 36 minutes on elite efficiency with a 0.9 BPM and 17.8 PER are

[RRR3]

You literally can’t refute Cartwright having good numbers immediately prior to playing with MJ and then proceeding to have awful numbers as MJ’s teammate so you just repeat “scrub” over and over. This is hilariously pathetic.

[Smoke117]

Yep. I’ll use some stats since 3ball likes them. He’s been taking about PER and OBPM so let’s use those. We’ll throw in TS% too

Cartwright the year before joining the Bulls: 17.8 PER, 0.8 OBPM, 63.9 TS%

Cartwright the next season on the Bulls: 11.0 PER, -3.5 OBPM, 53.5 TS%


Looks like MJ ball destoyed Cartwright :facepalm

But, but I thought MJ raised the play of everyone he ever played with and made them better!

If Scottie wasn't drafted by the Bulls he'd just be a poor mans Charles Smith without Jordan's mentorship, right?

[RRR3]

But, but I thought MJ raised the play of everyone he ever played with and made them better!
He literally has no response to this :oldlol:

All he can do is repeat “Cartwright was a scrub”

I think I stumbled on the way to break 3bal.

[SpaceJam2]

But, but I thought MJ raised the play of everyone he ever played with and made them better!

If Scottie wasn't drafted by the Bulls he'd just be a poor mans Charles Smith without Jordan's mentorship, right?

Another post

Another win

Anther one :pimp:

[Uncle Drew]

Yo, this thread is a gold mine. 3ball is losing his mind right before our very eyes.

[Smoke117]

He literally has no response to this :oldlol:

All he can do is repeat “Cartwright was a scrub”

I think I stumbled on the way to break 3bal.

He's a clown. It honestly baffles me how anyone can be this obsessed about another person unless maybe it's your lover. (and maybe in his mind Jordan is so...) People always go on like Jordan "made" Pippen yet Jack McCloskey who was the GM of the Pistons called him a "future superstar" and was desperately trying to trade up to get him in the 87 draft. They obviously didn't. I just find it hilarious how these Jordan fanboys act like Pippen was some piece of clay Jordan molded out of nothing when he was the 5th pick in the draft and everyone wanted to draft him in the first place. If Jordan has this magic touch where was it with Kwame Brown? :lol

[SpaceJam2]

Yo, this thread is a gold mine. 3ball is losing his mind right before our very eyes.

He's a interesting person. The resident crazed old schol guy clinging on to MJ's diminishing legacy :lol

The best part is the more he talks the more is uncovered and the more we see MJ was just above average

[RRR3]

Yo, this thread is a gold mine. 3ball is losing his mind right before our very eyes.
The secret to defeating 3ball: Bill Cartwright.

Solid scoring big before Jordan. Gleague scrub with Jordan.

#Jordanball

[3ball]

The secret to defeating 3ball: Bill Cartwright.

Solid scoring big before Jordan. Gleague scrub with Jordan.

#Jordanball
11/5 the year before MJ

12/7 with MJ in 89'

A scrub

[aj1987]

11/5 the year before MJ

12/7 with MJ in 89'

A scrub
Per 36 before MJ - 19/8/2/1 on 55%

Per 36 after MJ - 13/8/2/1 on 48%

MJ ruins careers. Needed Pippen to save his own career.

[3ball]

Per 36 before MJ - 19/8/2/1 on 55%

Per 36 after MJ - 13/8/2/1 on 48%

MJ ruins careers. Needed Pippen to save his own career.
11/5 the year before MJ

12/7 with MJ in 89'

A scrub

[Uncle Drew]

The secret to defeating 3ball: Bill Cartwright.

Solid scoring big before Jordan. Gleague scrub with Jordan.

#Jordanball
We won, and he knows it.

[3ball]

We won, and he knows it.
Nah, you guys lost the topic of the thread (that MJ was goat at elevating teammates, since he elevated a weak cast to play better than Drexler's stacked cast)

So you derailed to Cartwright, which is a meaningless argument for a meaningless player.. you're hinging things on an 11/5 player because you lost the thread topic.. pathetic, but carry on, standard procedure

[Uncle Drew]

Nah, you guys lost the topic of the thread (that MJ was goat at elevating teammates, since he elevated a weak cast to play better than Drexler's stacked cast)

So you derailed to Cartwright, which is a meaningless argument for a meaningless player.. you're hinging things on an 11/5 player because you lost the thread topic.. pathetic, but carry on, standard procedure
If you thought you were right, you wouldn’t be so angry. It was nice playing with you old man, but I suggest you sprint to another Word-file to copy and paste on this website.

[3ball]

If you thought you were right, you wouldn’t be so angry. It was nice playing with you old man, but I suggest you sprint to another Word-file to copy and paste on this website.
It's okay I won the thread topic

[aj1987]

11/5 the year before MJ

12/7 with MJ in 89'

A scrub
Per 36 before MJ - 19/8/2/1 on 55%

Per 36 after MJ - 13/8/2/1 on 48%

MJ ruins careers. Needed Pippen to save his own career.

[bison]

Find it hard to believe 3ball doesn’t know what is meant by ‘first option’. Basing an argument on a false premise—right in the thread title of all things—is Simon level trolling and should not have gotten more than one or two replies.

[3ball]

Find it hard to believe 3ball doesn’t know what is meant by ‘first option’. Basing an argument on a false premise—right in the thread title of all things—is Simon level trolling and should not have gotten more than one or two replies.
I told the truth - how the hell did Drexler make the 90' Finals with 19 on 41% as his team's 3rd place scorer?

Obviously, his team was stacked with a much better cast than mj

but mj elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

The splitting hairs about terminology - "3rd option vs. 3rd place scorer" - was a derail, but the fact remains - it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career.. MJ was simply goat at elevating teammates

[RRR3]

I told the truth - how the hell did Drexler make the 90' Finals with 19 on 41% as his team's 3rd place scorer?

Obviously, his team was stacked with a much better cast than mj

but mj elevated his cast and nearly beat the Pistons, while the Blazers were blown away - so the blazers stackedness demonstrates the great extent that MJ elevated that bulls cast..

The splitting hairs about terminology - "3rd option vs. 3rd place scorer" - was a derail, but the fact remains - it's a goat elevation-job, like his whole career.. MJ was simply goat at elevating teammates
Nope you

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Nope you

[RRR3]

Only someone ignorant about basketball would say Cartwright wasn't a scrub

The reality is that he was a 20 mpg player, that was forced to play 30 mpg for the Bulls because their roster was so thin
Why are you such a liar? Cartwright had played big minutes most of his career until 87, when he mostly played as Ewing

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Why are you such a liar? Cartwright had played big minutes most of his career until 87, when he mostly played as Ewing

[RRR3]

He was on the wrong side of 30 by 1988, and was only a 11/5 player before joining the bulls in 89'

Again, only someone that never watched back then would say Cartwright was anything more than a scrub
Why do you keep rattling off “11/5” like he wasn’t playing only around 20 MPG and putting up solid advanced stats? You literally have no comeback to this :roll: You CAN’T deny Cartwright got significantly worse when playing with MJ so you make intentionally misleading or outright false posts :lol

[3ball]

Why do you keep rattling off “11/5” like he wasn’t playing only around 20 MPG and putting up solid advanced stats? You literally have no comeback to this :roll: You CAN’T deny Cartwright got significantly worse when playing with MJ so you make intentionally misleading or outright false posts :lol
Again, Cartwright was a scrub 20 minute bench player that was overplayed in Chicago

1988 - 11/5 in 20 mpg.. 0.4 blk

1989 - 12/7 in 29 mpg... 0.5 blk


Yes, tell me more how Cartwright wasn't a scrub

[RRR3]

Again, Cartwright was a scrub 20 minute bench player that was overplayed in Chicago

1988 - 11/5 in 20 mpg.. 0.4 blk

1989 - 12/7 in 29 mpg... 0.5 blk


Yes, tell me more how Cartwright wasn't a scrub
Scrubs don

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Scrubs don

[RRR3]

Cartwright was a scrub, 20 minute bench player that was overplayed in Chicago

1988 - 11/5 in 20 mpg.. 0.4 blk

1989 - 12/7 in 29 mpg... 0.5 blk
You literally are just repeating the same thing over and over again because you have no rebuttal :roll:

How mad does it make you that MJ ruined Cartwright’s career?


Now make another post saying the exact same thing like a good little doggie.

[3ball]

You literally are just repeating the same thing over and over again because you have no rebuttal :roll:

How mad does it make you that MJ ruined Cartwright’s career?


Now make another post saying the exact same thing like a good little doggie.
I'm repeating the same thing because it's true

Cartwright was a scrub

You didn't watch back then, so ur spouting ignorance and trying to turn an 11/5 and 0 block player into something bigger

[RRR3]

I'm repeating the same thing because it's true

Cartwright was a scrub

You didn't watch back then, so ur spouting ignorance and trying to turn an 11/5 and 0 block player into something bigger
If he was a scrub how was he able to put good stats prior to MJ? Answer me that.

[3ball]

If he was a scrub how was he able to put good stats prior to MJ? Answer me that.
He averaged 11/5 and no blocks prior to MJ

He was a 20 minute bench player . A complete stiff..

MJ hated him and wished he had Oaktree back

[RRR3]

He averaged 11/5 and no blocks prior to MJ

He was a 20 minute bench player . A complete stiff..

MJ hated him and wished he had Oaktree back
11 points in 20 minutes is damn good you complete moron. I already told you he was backing up Patrick ****ing Ewing. The year before he played next to Ewing and put up 17.5/7.7 with similar efficiency. Obviously the coach decided he wanted Ewing as the center instead of power forward so Cartwrigt became the backup. He was clearly still the same player hence he still put up very similar production in his limited minutes. But then when he went to the Bulls his scoring rate, advanced stats and efficiency tanked...why? Answer that please.

[RRR3]

He has no response :roll:

[3ball]

11 points in 20 minutes is damn good you complete moron. I already told you he was backing up Patrick ****ing Ewing. The year before he played next to Ewing and put up 17.5/7.7 with similar efficiency. Obviously the coach decided he wanted Ewing as the center instead of power forward so Cartwrigt became the backup. He was clearly still the same player hence he still put up very similar production in his limited minutes. But then when he went to the Bulls his scoring rate, advanced stats and efficiency tanked...why? Answer that please.
He was horrible despite the so-called goat coaching of Phil Jackson, so he was just old by the time he got to the Bulls

But Cartwright sucked for the Knicks too and the knicks instantly improved from 38 to 52 wins when he left, while the bulls got worse with his arrival (50 win, 3 seed to 47-win 6 seed)

Again, scrub-dub-dub... 11/5 player regardless of minutes or coaching after 30 yrs old... Ur down a massive rabbit hole..

[RRR3]

He was horrible despite the so-called goat coaching of Phil Jackson, so he was just old by the time he got to the Bulls

But Cartwright sucked for the Knicks too and the knicks instantly improved from 38 to 52 wins when he left, while the bulls got worse with his arrival (50 win, 3 seed to 47-win 6 seed)

Again, scrub-dub-dub... 11/5 player regardless of minutes or coaching after 30 yrs old... Ur down a massive rabbit hole..
Stop refusing to answer my questions you giant coward.


WHY DID CARTWRIGHT’S SCORING RATE, EFFICIENCY AND ADVANCED STATS ALL TANK WHEN HE STARTED PLAYING WITH MJ?

[3ball]

Stop refusing to answer my questions you giant coward.


WHY DID CARTWRIGHT’S SCORING RATE, EFFICIENCY AND ADVANCED STATS ALL TANK WHEN HE STARTED PLAYING WITH MJ?
I answered your question in my last post.. in the first sentence infact

But since you failed to see the obvious spots where I answered your question (reading comp), I must conclude that you did very poorly on standardized tests and probably stopped your education short at some point..

So i recommend a testing tutor and then back to school for you... :cheers:

[RRR3]

I answered your question in my last post.. in the first sentence infact

But since you failed to see the obvious spots where I answered your question (reading comp), I must conclude that you did very poorly on standardized tests and probably stopped your education short at some point..

So i recommend a testing tutor and then back to school for you... :cheers:
Oh so he conveniently just got

[3ball]

Oh so he conveniently just got “old” when he played with MJ, eh? :yaohappy:


But if he played with LeBron you’d be saying LeBron made him worse. Double standards much?
Well, Cartwright had a post-centric, equal-opportunity offense, and a so-called goat coach that was giving him major minutes

Like, the triangle initiates by tossing the ball to the post... Every time... And it resets by tossing the ball to the post..

so he had an optimal situation, but he'd just turned 30 and his stats sucked and were less than his prime

That normally means the guy got old..

But despite Cartwright's scrubbiness, MJ went 3/3 with him, while lebron goes 3/9 with HOF bigs and HOF perimeter studs

[RRR3]

Well, Cartwright had a post-centric, equal-opportunity offense, and a so-called goat coach that was giving him major minutes

Like, the triangle initiates by tossing the ball to the post... Every time... And it resets by tossing the ball to the post..

so he had an optimal situation, but he'd just turned 30 and his stats sucked and were less than his prime

That normally means the guy got old..

But despite Cartwright's scrubbiness, MJ went 3/3 with him, while lebron goes 3/9 with HOF bigs and HOF perimeter studs
Damn so Cartwright had a coach who helped bigs and MJ STILL made him much worse? :oldlol:

I like how you’ve just been whimpering “he was a scrub” for post after post before finally managing a feeble “b-b-buh-buh-buh-but he was old :cry:”.

And MJ had Pippen and Grant plus Phil coaching.

[TheCorporation]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Oh so he conveniently just got

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Oh so he conveniently just got

[Charlie Sheen]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Stop refusing to answer my questions you giant coward.


[B]WHY DID CARTWRIGHT

[3ball]

Bold is why you're just as much of a troll as 3ball in this thread. Cartwright started playing with MJ AND Pip AND Ho G. in their early 20's just entering their prime when he got to Chicago. Of course the stats were going to dry up

I'm with you that Cartwright wasn't a scrub. He fits in somewhere in the middle of star and scrub. Useful.
Star?

gtfo

He'd already declined when the Knicks benched him in 88', before joining the bulls in 89'

And Ho Grant had nothing to do with it.. he was a play-finisher and barely touched the ball

Cartwright was a scrub for the bulls - thats the only way to describe his play in a bulls' uni

Tristan Thompson > bulls Cartwright

[RRR3]

Star?

gtfo

He'd already declined when the Knicks benched him in 88', before joining the bulls in 89'

And Ho Grant had nothing to do with it.. he was a play-finisher and barely touched the ball

Cartwright was a scrub for the bulls - thats the only way to describe his play in a bulls' uni

Tristan Thompson > bulls Cartwright
How had he

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]How had he

[RRR3]

Because the Knicks no longer thought he was worth big minutes and benched him

they thought he would be better at the lower minute level

And they were right... When he got big minutes on the bulls with a post-centric offense and a good coach, he sucked at the higher minute level, and showed he couldn't produce at that minute level anymore
Yeah they couldn

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Yeah they couldn

[RRR3]

Nah, Oakley was really good, better than Horace ever was and I always wondered why they made the trade

but the Knicks knew their man (Cartwright) better than the bulls and got away with grand theft in stealing Oaktree, and MJ knew it
They made the trade because Cartwright was still considered good at the time, obviously. They had no idea MJ would force him into being a spot up shooting scrub.

[JBSptfn]

they lost to the Pistons in 5 easy games, but the 89' and 90' Bulls took the Pistons 6 and 7 games with much thinner casts??? (basically beating them in 90' if not for migraine Pip)??..

This shows that MJ elevated 1-time all-star Pip and young role players to a higher level of play than all-star veterans Porter/Duckworth, all-defense Williams (3x all-star), and 1st option Jerome Kersey (20 ppg).. That shows how much MJ elevated those Bulls

Btw, everyone in the Pistons' starting 5 was either all-nba, dpoy, or a 3x all-star in 1990.. And 1990 was a very stacked year overall - the stacked KJ-Suns demolished Magic's 1 seed but then lost to the stacked Blazers in WCF, who lost to the stacked Pistons in Finals - only the Bulls were competitive with the Pistons (essentially beating them except for Pip's migraine)


First 3 Rounds 1990 Playoffs

Kersey:. 21.7 on 45.9%
Porter:. 21.1 on 48.4%
Drexler:.19.8 on 40.9%
.

The Bulls were more competitive because they were division rivals, and it was their third straight year playing them in the playoffs. Portland rarely played Detroit, so they weren't really used to the way they played.

The Bulls were lucky that they played the Pistons those years. They learned how to win. If MJ doesn't sink that shot in 89 in Cleveland, they may not have had a dynasty.

[riseagainst]

3ball still getting slapped around left and right, I see.

Some things never change.

:roll:

[3ball]

The Bulls were more competitive because they were division rivals, and it was their third straight year playing them in the playoffs. Portland rarely played Detroit, so they weren't really used to the way they played.

The Bulls were lucky that they played the Pistons those years. They learned how to win. If MJ doesn't sink that shot in 89 in Cleveland, they may not have had a dynasty.
Your argument is false because it goes both ways - the Pistons knew how the bulls play too, and the Pistons didn't know how Portland played - so it cancels out but your bias only considered one side

The reason the bulls did better every year is because Pippen kept getting less inept every year - that's the only thing that changed
.

[Manny98]

R3 got 3ball spinning in this thread :roll:

[3ball]

3ball still getting slapped around left and right, I see.

Some things never change.

:roll:
Thread got derailed to Bill Cartwright because no one could refute the OP:

drexler's more stacked team did worse against the Pistons, thus proving how much MJ elevated his lesser bulls

[SpaceJam2]

3ball still getting slapped around left and right, I see.

Some things never change.

:roll:

At this point I'm inclined to believe he's just a troll account because he does it to himself so often there's no other explanation, is there?

[SpaceJam2]

R3 got 3ball spinning in this thread :roll:

2ball is Big mad :lol