So Kawhi > KD

[J Shuttlesworth]

Basically doing what KD couldn't and is leading Ibaka to a title. His 2 FMVPs will definitely be seen as more impressive than KD's. Bad day for KD's legacy if the Raps win G5 since Kawhi will pass him up all time.

[L8krH8tr]

Toronto is way better than that Oklahoma city team.

Also you can't say that because they didn't even get to face off really.

If KD was playing the Warriors would have won.

[ImKobe]

Need I remind you what KD did to Kawhi the last time they played in the Playoffs? OKC ran over a 67-win Spurs team.

[Proctor]

OP dropping truth bombs in his triumphant return. :cheers:

[egokiller]

Of all the great juicy narratives to use from this finals series this is the one you picked?

I guess all the other

[NBASTATMAN]

Basically doing what KD couldn't and is leading Ibaka to a title. His 2 FMVPs will definitely be seen as more impressive than KD's. Bad day for KD's legacy if the Raps win G5 since Kawhi will pass him up all time.


:applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

KD definitely had more help. Westbrook > Lowry, and the prime Ibaka is definitely better than current. KD blew a 3-1 lead to Curry/Klay/Green while Kawhi is destroying them.

Kawhi is stopping Curry and KD from getting into the top 10. Pretty brilliant, boss move. His 2FMVP > Currys 0

It might hurt some of you to hear the truth, so sorry to hurt your feelings.

[ImKobe]

KD definitely had more help. Westbrook > Lowry, and the prime Ibaka is definitely better than current. KD blew a 3-1 lead to Curry/Klay/Green while Kawhi is destroying them.

Kawhi is stopping Curry and KD from getting into the top 10. Pretty brilliant, boss move. His 2FMVP > Currys 0

It might hurt some of you to hear the truth, so sorry to hurt your feelings.

Siakam, Marc Gasol, Danny Green

not to mention Westbrook blew out his knee in 2013 and KD himself was injured in 2015, they made the WCF/Finals every other year from 2012-2016. Raptors have 3-PT shooters at every position, the one thing 2012 and 2016 Thunder lacked. Ibaka couldn't shoot 3s back then and Harden was the choker he always has been, 2016 Dion Waiters was passing up open 3s and Roberson was airballing them.

Would these Raptors beat the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs or 2016 Warriors?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Siakam, Marc Gasol, Danny Green

not to mention Westbrook blew out his knee in 2013 and KD himself was injured in 2015, they made the WCF/Finals every other year from 2012-2016. Raptors have 3-PT shooters at every position, the one thing 2012 and 2016 Thunder lacked. Ibaka couldn't shoot 3s back then and Harden was the choker he always has been, 2016 Dion Waiters was passing up open 3s and Roberson was airballing them.

Would these Raptors beat the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs or 2016 Warriors?
KD had a healthy Westbrook in 2016, and had a chance to defeat the same team that Kawhi is taking to school. Instead, he choked.

Basically, for KD to win a title, he needs an MVP, 3 all stars, DPOY, FMVP off the bench. Kawhi needs his second best player to be Kyle Lowry.

Initially didn't want to admit KL is this good, but we need to all accept it fellas

[SouBeachTalents]

KD had a healthy Westbrook in 2016, and had a chance to defeat the same team that Kawhi is taking to school. Instead, he choked.

Basically, for KD to win a title, he needs an MVP, 3 all stars, DPOY, FMVP off the bench. Kawhi needs his second best player to be Kyle Lowry.

Initially didn't want to admit KL is this good, but we need to all accept it fellas
Well tbf, Durant was in the same position Kawhi's in now :lol Biggest difference being Kawhi's been much, much better and he still has HCA to fall back on

[ImKobe]

KD had a healthy Westbrook in 2016, and had a chance to defeat the same team that Kawhi is taking to school. Instead, he choked.

Basically, for KD to win a title, he needs an MVP, 3 all stars, DPOY, FMVP off the bench. Kawhi needs his second best player to be Kyle Lowry.

Initially didn't want to admit KL is this good, but we need to all accept it fellas

How did KD himself choke? He showed up for Game 7 and shot 10/19 while Westbrook, Roberson and Waiters combined for 11/41 (27%), OKC shot 4/20 from three outside of Durant's 3 for 7. They lost by 8 points.

If only KD had shooters around him back then.

[SouBeachTalents]

How did KD himself choke? He showed up for Game 7 and shot 10/19 while Westbrook, Roberson and Waiters combined for 11/41 (27%), OKC shot 4/20 from three outside of Durant's 3 for 7. They lost by 8 points.

If only KD had shooters around him back then.
Bruh, Durant choked terribly in Game 6, why even try to act like he didn't

[ImKobe]

Bruh, Durant choked terribly in Game 6, why even try to act like he didn't

So Game 6 is the only one that matters? Was that elimination for OKC? No?

And wasn't Westbrook the one turning the ball over 4 ****ing times in a row after Warriors tied it with like 2 minutes left? KD missed some shots but he wasn't the one who threw the game or the series.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Ibaka was the 3rd option in OKC from 2013-2016, 4th in 2011 and 2012

hes the 6th/7th option in Toronto

dude comes off the bench:biggums:

Toronto goes 8 deep and they dont even have OG whos a better role player than most of OKCs over the years

they literally won 60 games last year without Kawhi and played at a 60 win pace this year in the games he missed. We saw Chuckbrick miss the playoffs when KD got hurt in 2015 and since getting an All-NBA top 10 SF in Paul George OKC hasnt even been able to crack 50 wins and are 4-12 in the playoffs with no road wins and the worst playoff offense in that span by far at a level of the tanking Knicks and Bulls

[J Shuttlesworth]

How did KD himself choke? He showed up for Game 7 and shot 10/19 while Westbrook, Roberson and Waiters combined for 11/41 (27%), OKC shot 4/20 from three outside of Durant's 3 for 7. They lost by 8 points.

If only KD had shooters around him back then.
Uh I guess you didn't see the late game turnovers by KD in G6 and 7. Sure WB did too but they both choked honestly.

And you can't tell me you excuse KD for failing to close out the Dubs 3 games in a row

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Uh I guess you didn't see the late game turnovers by KD in G6 and 7. Sure WB did too but they both choked honestly.

And you can't tell me you excuse KD for failing to close out the Dubs 3 games in a row

KD was the best defensive player in the series and the main reason they were up 3-1 in the 1st place. He completely locked down Draymond who went off against the Blazers before and the Cavs after and had a GOAT finals game 7 where he was the best player on the court

He struggled to score in game 6 but his defense was the biggest reason they even had a chance. And he was the only Thunder that showed up in game 7

[Lakessss]

Kawhi was taking KD and the Warriors to school prior to his injury. It wouldn

[J Shuttlesworth]

KD was the best defensive player in the series and the main reason they were up 3-1 in the 1st place. He completely locked down Draymond who went off against the Blazers before and the Cavs after and had a GOAT finals game 7 where he was the best player on the court

He struggled to score in game 6 but his defense was the biggest reason they even had a chance. And he was the only Thunder that showed up in game 7
That's great. And he blew a 3 1 lead to the team Kawhi will likely beat in 5. Kawhis able to win a finals without joining a 73 win team.

Kawhi > KD

[SouBeachTalents]

Ibaka was the 3rd option in OKC from 2013-2016, 4th in 2011 and 2012

hes the 6th/7th option in Toronto

dude comes off the bench:biggums:

Toronto goes 8 deep and they dont even have OG whos a better role player than most of OKCs over the years

they literally won 60 games last year without Kawhi and played at a 60 win pace this year in the games he missed. We saw Chuckbrick miss the playoffs when KD got hurt in 2015 and since getting an All-NBA top 10 SF in Paul George OKC hasnt even been able to crack 50 wins and are 4-12 in the playoffs with no road wins and the worst playoff offense in that span by far at a level of the tanking Knicks and Bulls
Care to tell me how many games the Warriors won without Durant the year before he joined :oldlol: Or their win pace in games he's missed

[egokiller]

KD has taken an enormous shit on 2 of lebron

[Lakessss]

[QUOTE=egokiller]KD has taken an enormous shit on 2 of lebron

[Paul George 24]

Need I remind you what KD did to Kawhi the last time they played in the Playoffs? OKC ran over a 67-win Spurs team.
KD CHOKED 3-1 LEAD:lol

[egokiller]

Correction.

If Kawhi wins he comes out above Jordan. Easily. Jordan never beat a team this good let alone in 5 games. He was usually getting swept by them. You know.. like the Celtics?

Kawhi lost in the 2013 finals. He

[Akeem34TheDream]

Correction.

If Kawhi wins he comes out above Jordan. Easily. Jordan never beat a team this good let alone in 5 games. He was usually getting swept by them. You know.. like the Celtics?
I agree. Kawhi is the greatest basketball player of all time.

[Lakessss]

Kawhi lost in the 2013 finals. He’ll never achieve GOAT MJ finals perfection. He’s already out of the discussion.

Yawn.....next?
There’s no shame in losing to LeJesus.

Kawhi came back stronger after his encounter with the basketball messiah and took the reigns.

Atleast he wasn’t out there achieving Westbrook type first round loses in the playoffs like Jordan.

[egokiller]

I agree. Kawhi is the greatest basketball player of all time.

:roll: At least put some troll effort into it. This is just boring to read.

[Lakessss]

:roll: At least put some troll effort into it. This is just boring to read.
You’re right. He should add a paragraph worth of imaginary out of context stats like you do. Than his trolling would be top notch.


You think I forgot about your Heat with Lebron and no Wade stats and Heat with Wade and no Lebron stats you completely fabricated? Lmao. How are you not banned yet?

[Soundwave]

It's close.

KD is better offensively, but Kawhi is still good offensively while better defensively.

Just depends on what you want in a player.

I'd say they're no.1 and no.2 for the best player on the planet.

But lets also be honest, if KD is playing, the Warriors probably win this series and the narrative is very different.

[Lakessss]

It's close.

KD is better offensively, but Kawhi is still good offensively while better defensively.

Just depends on what you want in a player.

I'd say they're no.1 and no.2 for the best player on the planet.

But lets also be honest, if KD is playing, the Warriors probably win this series and the narrative is very different.
I want a player that doesn’t choke a 3-1 lead and runs to the team that took him to bible study. So I’ll go with killer instinct game 7 buzzer beater do or die Kawhi.

[egokiller]

[QUOTE=Lakessss]You

[J Shuttlesworth]

[QUOTE=Lakessss]I want a player that doesn

[egokiller]

KD couldn't beat the Heatles. Kawhi did.
KD couldn't beat the Dubs, Kawhi will.

2 valuable FMVPs vs 2 empty ones.

Kawhi wins the debate

Nope, KD beat 2 stacked lebron teams (2017 and 2018 cavs emerging from the bloodbath east) while kawhi beat only 1 (2014) and is about to beat a depleated GSW team.

2 valuable FMVPs vs 2 valuable FMVPs

Anything else is basically saying beating lebron isn

[BlakFrankWhite]

Great post op.

F*** KD.

[J Shuttlesworth]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Nope, KD beat 2 stacked lebron teams (2017 and 2018 cavs emerging from the bloodbath east) while kawhi beat only 1 (2014) and is about to beat a depleated GSW team.

2 valuable FMVPs vs 2 valuable FMVPs

Anything else is basically saying beating lebron isn

[ArbitraryWater]

So Game 6 is the only one that matters? Was that elimination for OKC? No?

And wasn't Westbrook the one turning the ball over 4 ****ing times in a row after Warriors tied it with like 2 minutes left? KD missed some shots but he wasn't the one who threw the game or the series.

Yes, Game 6 was THE game for them to win, the only home close-out game they had...

Dumbass. The mental gymnastics you make for KD.

Everything after game 6 was a long shot and always gonna be unlikely.

10/19? Am I supposed to be impressed? Maybe for Kobe standards.

KD was passive and took 15 shots until they were down big with a few minutes left and it was mostly over in need of an improbable comeback.


Choke choke choke.

[ImKobe]

Yes, Game 6 was THE game for them to win, the only home close-out game they had...

Dumbass. The mental gymnastics you make for KD.

Everything after game 6 was a long shot and always gonna be unlikely.

10/19? Am I supposed to be impressed? Maybe for Kobe standards.

KD was passive and took 15 shots until they were down big with a few minutes left and it was mostly over in need of an improbable comeback.


Choke choke choke.

KD was being doubled - Waiters, Roberson, Westbrook were all bricking open 3s...OKC led for most of the game too until the 3rd quarter run. KD brought them within 4 points with 1:40 left, I'd hardly call that being "over", they were never down more than like 12 points in the game.

10/19 for 27 is a lot better than Lebron's 9/24 in Game 7 of the Finals against an injured Iguodala :confusedshrug:

[r0drig0lac]

KD definitely had more help. Westbrook > Lowry, and the prime Ibaka is definitely better than current. KD blew a 3-1 lead to Curry/Klay/Green while Kawhi is destroying them.

Kawhi is stopping Curry and KD from getting into the top 10. Pretty brilliant, boss move. His 2FMVP > Currys 0

It might hurt some of you to hear the truth, so sorry to hurt your feelings.
this

[Bronbron23]

Basically doing what KD couldn't and is leading Ibaka to a title. His 2 FMVPs will definitely be seen as more impressive than KD's. Bad day for KD's legacy if the Raps win G5 since Kawhi will pass him up all time.
Different situations but it's hard to argue that kd is better. Scoring wise kd looks better. The game comes much more natural to him but kawhi is becoming just as effective on that end. He's also become a much better passer. Numbers won't show that because kd has always played with much better scorers but kawhi is learning to make the higher percentage play where kd still struggles with that at times. Kawhi is also the better defender and rebounder. Again the numbers with rebounds are pretty even but kawhi is stronger and can battle on the boards a bit better. He constantly comes up with big rebounds in clutch moments. I won't say kawhi is better right now. If kd was playing it would probably be the warriors up 3-1. They're very close though.

[DMAVS41]

Toronto is way better than that Oklahoma city team.

Also you can't say that because they didn't even get to face off really.

If KD was playing the Warriors would have won.

Is that supposed to mean something?

If Leonard was on the Warriors and Durant was on the Raptors, the Raptors wouldn't even have made the conference finals likely.

Shit, if Klay doesn't go down, this series is likely 2-2 straight up without KD.

Again, the Warriors have won at close to a 70 win pace in the last 35 games without KD...how anyone could think that somehow proves KD's worth is beyond me.

[StrongLurk]

No, this 2019 Warriors team without KD is easily the worst team they've had since 2014.

No depth, injuries, defense isn't as good. The 2015 Warriors team is better than this 2019 team.

[Jasper]

Basically doing what KD couldn't and is leading Ibaka to a title. His 2 FMVPs will definitely be seen as more impressive than KD's. Bad day for KD's legacy if the Raps win G5 since Kawhi will pass him up all time.
KD is still the best player in the world , or 1a next to Bron.

If you watch Kawi enough , you will see the guy rests and takes long breaks ...
Last night I watch 10 minutes of the game, and Kawi was standing on offense.
Other players would be ridiculed on this board.

[Wally450]

I'm late to the party, but to say Kawhi is leading this team isn't true with context. This Warriors team is hobbled with injuries.

[DMAVS41]

No, this 2019 Warriors team without KD is easily the worst team they've had since 2014.

No depth, injuries, defense isn't as good. The 2015 Warriors team is better than this 2019 team.


Of course they are. This current team with Harrison Barnes is at worst tied in this series...probably up 3-1...assuming health.

It never ceases to amaze me how idiotic people are. This is a shell of a team currently with a gaping hole with no KD...and, again, have won at basically a 70 win clip without him.

Think about the standard for KD and how absurd it is. He's getting credit for playing on a team that is good enough to easily make the NBA finals without him, win at a 70 win clip without him, but with key injuries...isn't good enough to win the title without him.

What other player in history would a scenario like that be looked at as a positive thing for said player? None...it is so so so so so dumb.

[egokiller]

Why are people comparing the 2015 gsw to the 2019 gsw less KD? The 2 teams are vastly different.

It's like the resident ISH whipping boy claiming that the 94 bulls were the same as the 93 bulls, less MJ when the team was vastly different.

Imagine thinking the raps last year without Kawhi are the same raps this year with Kawhi and other changes.

Lil fucc bois and their agendas easily destroyed.

[LostCause]

Someone on another forum did a pretty interesting post on KD in relation to other players during the 2017 and 18 Finals, and how he scored his points. I'll paste some of it


NBA Finals 2017

- Durant actually got by far the least amount of open looks of any relevant player in the Finals.

- Golden State shot 56.06 TS% excluding Durant, Durant was at 69.80%, +13.74% over expected

- Proportionally, Durant actually got the fewest open or wide open looks of any player in the Finals by a considerable margin. Only 27.8% of Durant's shot attempts were considered open (no defender within 4 feet). Other notables include 38.7% Kyrie, 49.6% LeBron, 48.3% Curry, 55.7% Thompson, 47.8% Love, and 52.8% Green

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender/?sort=FGA&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender/?sort=FGA&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open


- He also got less total open looks per game (6.0 of 21.6 FGA) than Kyrie (9.4 of 24.6), LeBron (11.6 of 23.4), Curry (8.8 of 18.2), Thompson (7.8 of 14.0 FGA), Love (6.4 of 13.4 FGA) and only slightly more than Green (5.8 of 11.0 FGA).

- He was actually contested on 15.6 of his 21.6 FGA/game, he just shot an outrageous 66.9 eFG% on contested shots including 59.1% on contested 3's, which made up 73% of his 3's in the Finals.. He shot 52.9 eFG% with a defender 0-2 feet away(super tight) and 69.8 eFG% with a defender 2-4 feet away (tight)

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender/?sort=FG3_PCT&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight&CF=FG3A*G*1

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender/?sort=FGA&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender/?sort=FGA&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight


2018 Finals

- It's very popular narrative about how Curry was drawing double/triple-teams. But if that's the case, then how comes that he got more open and wide open shots than anyone else in the Finals by a considerable margin?

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender-10/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=FGA&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&CF=FGA*G*&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open&PORound=4

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender-10/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=FGA&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&CF=FGA*G*2&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&PORound=4

- Durant shot a grand total of 3 jumpers in the entire 2018 Finals with no defender within 6 feet of him. Curry? He shot more than 6 times that amount, a total of 19 for the series. 49 of Curry's attempts in the series were with no defender within 4 feet of him, Durant on the otherhand didn't average half that at 22 attempts.

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender-10/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=FGA&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&CF=FGA*G*&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open&PORound=4

- Meanwhile Durant attempted 32 tightly contested jumpers. Want a fun stat? The rest of the Warriors TEAM attempted a total of 23 contested jumpers. COMBINED. The Cavs attempted 34.

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-closest-defender-10/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=FGA&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&CF=FGA*G*&PORound=4&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight

Thoughts?

[bigkingsfan]

Someone on another forum did a pretty interesting post on KD in relation to other players during the 2017 and 18 Finals, and how he scored his points. I'll paste some of it



Thoughts?
Situational, it's a psychological thing, most players are better with the lead than playing behind.

There's a reason why he shot 42% against GS before joining them.

[ArbitraryWater]

So Game 6 is the only one that matters? Was that elimination for OKC? No?

And wasn't Westbrook the one turning the ball over 4 ****ing times in a row after Warriors tied it with like 2 minutes left? KD missed some shots but he wasn't the one who threw the game or the series.

As I'm getting rid of unecessarx bookmarks before the fam comes, I thought the mental gymnastics here deserve a bump.


I love how you pick and choose which games to focus on.

Every game matters. Every game is to be held accountable.

And the game 6 home game was the one which mattered most. That was their main asset, their best chance.

You think going 10/19 in a road game 7 guarantees a win? Haha.

No. What would guarantee a win is a strong close-out home performance.

A solid 4th quarter.

Instead, Durant had an 8 point lead entering the 4th quarter and went 1/7 with 2 TO's.

Cringe.