Those claiming asterisk - tell me this...

[oh the horror]

How mad are you right now?


That

[talkingconch]

World: Warriors are injured
Commentators: The Warriors have no business being in this game
OP: nO AsTeRiSk

Don't be a fool. Congrats to the Raptors and Leonard, but this outcome is completely different if Thompson plays tonight or if Durant plays the entire series. Everyone knows this.

[StrongLurk]

I'm not mad, just stating facts.

The finals were entertaining regardless. But it's an asterisk.

[Shogon]

Injuries are part of the game, but it's still an asterisk title. The Warriors have won some asterisk titles and playoff series of their own, lol.

You and I both know damn well that the Toronto Raptors didn't ACTUALLY beat the Golden State Warriors. Fate did.

[Manny98]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

[warriorfan]

I

[ImKobe]

Warriors missing their best player and Klay Thompson and the Raptors barely win thanks to Cousins missing FTs lol

[DMAVS41]

The last two Warriors titles have more of an asterisk than this Raptors title.

Stacking the deck and essentially playing varsity vs jv isn't impressing anyone.

[1987_Lakers]

I mean, we all know Toronto would have gotten their shit pushed in if the Warriors were healthy, but it's apart of the game. Respect to the Raptors.

[FKAri]

Warriors missing their best player and Klay Thompson and the Raptors barely win thanks to Cousins missing FTs lol
It's what happens when you stack the deck.
:cheers:

[Dan_Bali]

Straight up ASTERISK.

Raptirs 2019 are the most forgettable champions in NBA history.

[Wally450]

Do you not think there

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=Wally450]Do you not think there

[MaxPlayer]

LOL. It's not the Raptors' fault that KD and Klay's bodies fell apart. If GSW can't play ball without hurting themselves, then they weren't the better team.

[ArbitraryWater]

the only content of this thread should be:


are 2015 and 2018 also injuries?


yes, yes they are

[1987_Lakers]

Do you not think people think that nearly every year?

Do you not think the Warriors last two titles have an asterisk?

The Warriors beat a super team in the Finals in 2017. And we all know the Rockets would have choked last year regardless.

[elementally morale]

It was an interesting 6 games. Best Finals in a long time. I agree with you, OP, but change human nature you will not.

[Smoke117]

Again, Warriors have enjoyed injuries to other teams plenty of times from the beginning in 2015. They needed CP3 to get injured just to get to to the finals despite being the most stacked team of all time. :oldlol:

[Shogon]

It was an interesting 6 games. Best Finals in a long time. I agree with you, OP, but change human nature you will not.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jGeuf0mcBdh3q/giphy.gif

[DMAVS41]

The Warriors beat a super team in the Finals in 2017. And we all know the Rockets would have choked last year regardless.

What the Raptors just did given their team strength was probably harder...perhaps significantly...than the Warriors winning in 17 and 18.

And the Warriors last year lucked out with Paul getting hurt in addition to having the most unfair team relative to the competition in league history the last two years.

:confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

This thread is mad dumb. We can't just pretend the Warriors weren't almost comically decimated by injuries

[Bronbron23]

I'm not mad, just stating facts.

The finals were entertaining regardless. But it's an asterisk.
That's fine but so is 2018 and 2015 for warriors. Can't have it both ways

[ReturnofJPR]

The Warriors won how many titles by escaping the greatest competition due to injury??

[DMAVS41]

This thread is mad dumb. We can't just pretend the Warriors weren't almost comically decimated by injuries

They were...but a title isn't won by only winning one series. What the Raptors did against the Sixers and a championship level Bucks team can't just be ignored.

[konex]

[QUOTE=oh the horror]How mad are you right now?


That

[MaxPlayer]

Staying healthy is part of the game.

[StrongLurk]

That's fine but so is 2018 and 2015 for warriors. Can't have it both ways

What are you talking about both ways?

I've ALWAYS said 2015 finals was an asterisk as wells.

[1987_Lakers]

They were...but a title isn't won by only winning one series. What the Raptors did against the Sixers and a championship level Bucks team can't just be ignored.

They would have lost vs a healthy Warriors team, the whole world knows it. Bringing up the injury breaks the Warriors had in the past doesn't change that.

[DMAVS41]

They would have lost vs a healthy Warriors team, the whole world knows it. Bringing up the injury breaks the Warriors had in the past doesn't change that.

I don't know that for sure at all actually. I think they would have, but this Raptors team would have had the best player in the series in my opinion with everyone healthy and homecourt.

Also, not being able to beat the most unfairly stacked team in NBA history relative to competition does not mean you deserve an asterisk for your title.

Do the 11 Mavs have an asterisk? You think they beat a healthy Warriors team?

:confusedshrug:

[Smoke117]

The Warriors beat a super team in the Finals in 2017. And we all know the Rockets would have choked last year regardless.

To actually be believe the 2017 Cavs were a superteam...jesus. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

I don't know that for sure at all actually. I think they would have, but this Raptors team would have had the best player in the series in my opinion with everyone healthy and homecourt.

:roll:

You already forgot Durant was dropping 35 ppg before he got hurt? Leonard looked no where near superstar level in the final games.

Warriors would of beat them in 5. Hell, if Klay didn't get hurt tonight it would have gone 7 games without Durant. Just think about that.

[Bronbron23]

What are you talking about both ways?

I've ALWAYS said 2015 finals was an asterisk as wells.
Fair enough. Most warrior fans don't acknowledge that. Last year was too though. Chris Paul was way better last year compared to this year and Houston was up 3-2 before he went down

[MaxPlayer]

To actually be believe the 2017 Cavs were a superteam...jesus. :oldlol:

Did you forget about their superstar starting 2-guard, JR Smith?

[DMAVS41]

:roll:

You already forgot Durant was dropping 35 ppg before he got hurt? Leonard looked no where near superstar level in the final games.

Warriors would of beat them in 5. Hell, if Klay didn't get hurt tonight it would have gone 7 games without Durant. Just think about that.

Leonard is better than Durant. Actually pretty clear to me, but you can think whatever you want.

[Kblaze8855]

When the other teams best player plays 10 minutes and the third best missed a game and can’t play out the elimination game...you’re gonna hear it was a bullshit series that wasted everyone’s time.

It’s just a brutally lame way to end a season. It’s a waste of 9 months.

Nobody’s trying to watch the Celtics vs the lakers but Magic is out the whole series and Worthy is missing key games. That’s just a waste of all the hype.

Kareem and role players are not the showtime lakers and this travesty of a series was a finals in name only.

Its a total waste of all the analysis....all the talk...all the predictions and hype. This season was damn near a throwaway ending like this.

This....2015...when Magic was hurt vs the pistons? Shit like that where it’s a totally decimated team just trying to make it respectable?

Straight so what finals.

No KD is one thing. No Klay? We could have all been watching West wing or Sopranos reruns. I could have been asleep 2 hours ago. I gotta get up and drive to ****ing Honea path South Carolina tomorrow. What’s in honea path? Shit. Shit is in Honea Path. But I’m gonna drive there for work. And now I’m gonna drive sleepy for this lame ass game the raptors were begging to lose but the warriors didn’t have the firepower to take.

Listen to 3 hours of halfhearted “Sure would have been nice to have a real finals.... but congrats Toronto...” stale fake excited sports radio on the way.

Mike Golic doing his “Hey...you can only play who’s on the schedule” thing about injuries....when you can hear the boredom and disappointment in his voice.

This should be a great time of the year....but it ends on this lame lowlight.

On to the draft I guess. Playoffs were all but worthless. I don’t know even know what there is to talk about other than free agency and the draft.

The playoffs provided nothing worth evaluating and I’m already onto next year 30 minutes after it ended.

“We have technically crowned a new champion....” isn’t really exciting subject matter.

[warriorfan]

Leonard is better than Durant. Actually pretty clear to me, but you can think whatever you want.

Has been for 5 years too

[1987_Lakers]

To actually be believe the 2017 Cavs were a superteam...jesus. :oldlol:

They went 12-1 that postseason before they met the Warriors. Including a massacre sweep of the Celtics in the ECF.

The 2017 Finals is the greatest collection of talent we have ever seen in a Finals series.

[Smoke117]

They went 12-1 that postseason before they met the Warriors. Including a massacre sweep of the Celtics in the ECF.

The 2017 Finals is the greatest collection of talent we have ever seen in a Finals series.

That's a product of the east being pathetic and not the Cavs being some superteam.

[D-nugz]

It is part of it, just unfortunate injuries come during the playoffs, it's a long ass season! Unfortunate Klay got injured he was lighting it up,
Congrats to Raptors winning their first!!!!

[1987_Lakers]

Leonard is better than Durant. Actually pretty clear to me, but you can think whatever you want.

Well, now that Durant tore his Achilles he is. But no way in hell is Leonard better than any version of Golden State Durant before the injury.

[DMAVS41]

I think there is confusion here.

Nobody is going to argue that the Raptors beating a decimated Warriors team matters as much as if they had actually beaten a fully healthy Warriors team.

But again, titles are not only about the finals. The Raptors had to win essentially two 50/50 series and then beat a Warriors team that was nowhere near full strength, but still quite good.

If there is an * here, there is one on like half the titles depending on who is talking.

[Naero]

With all the asterisking I see for such titles, I’d be convinced that injuries have deterministic magic behind them (insert Voodoo meme).

Injuries are part of not just the game but also a player’s profile: they’re determined more by a player’s playstyle, physique, and self-maintenance than simple luck. It’s no coincidence that some players got recurrently injured, such as Dwyane Wade, and that others have managed to live an injury-free career until their dotage, such as Karl Malone.

Durant’s had his own checkered track record of health before these playoffs, and he even missed one postseason entirely in 2015 because of it.

The Raptors fielded a team that kept themselves healthy at the most opportune time and reaped a title in large part because of it; that’s what everyone will remember first, not all the circumstances detractors try to asterisk it with.

[DMAVS41]

Well, now that Durant tore his Achilles he is. But no way in hell is Leonard better than any version of Golden State Durant before the injury.

When you say "Golden State Durant" I don't know what you are talking about because it implies Durant was different...when in reality it was just being in the greatest circumstance for a player, perhaps ever.

Again though, you can think what you want...I disagree.

:cheers:

[1987_Lakers]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]When the other teams best player plays 10 minutes and the third best missed a game and can

[StrongLurk]

I think there is confusion here.

Nobody is going to argue that the Raptors beating a decimated Warriors team matters as much as if they had actually beaten a fully healthy Warriors team.

But again, titles are not only about the finals. The Raptors had to win essentially two 50/50 series and then beat a Warriors team that was nowhere near full strength, but still quite good.

If there is an * here, there is one on like half the titles depending on who is talking.

Bro, it's an asterisk plain and simple. Warriors were at like 60% strength.

Cousins was never fully healthy either remember? Yes we know the Warriors are stacked as ****, but still.

Also, KD > Kawhi, idk how you can elevate Kawhi over KD.

[Wally450]

Kawhi was the 3rd leading scorer for the Raptors in a closeout game lol.

[DMAVS41]

Bro, it's an asterisk plain and simple. Warriors were at like 60% strength.

Cousins was never fully healthy either remember? Yes we know the Warriors are stacked as ****, but still.

Also, KD > Kawhi, idk how you can elevate Kawhi over KD.

Was the 03 Spurs title an asterisk? How about the 99 title?

Not beating one of the best teams in NBA history does not mean your title has an asterisk.

Take a step back and think about it...how many teams in NBA history are capable of beating a healthy Warriors team?

[1987_Lakers]

Bro, it's an asterisk plain and simple. Warriors were at like 60% strength.

Cousins was never fully healthy either remember? Yes we know the Warriors are stacked as ****, but still.

Also, KD > Kawhi, idk how you can elevate Kawhi over KD.

Kawhi over Durant is a joke, just a typical living in the moment BS.

[warriorfan]

Kawhi was the 3rd leading scorer for the Raptors in a closeout game lol.

He plays both sides of the ball and was passing out of double teams all day you low iq subhuman piece of shit. Please do us all a favor and never post again. You seriously don’t know shit about basketball and are wasting both yours and all of our time. Thanks.

[talkingconch]

lmao even post-game they are saying, raptors were lucky the warriors were injured

[DMAVS41]

Kawhi over Durant is a joke, just a typical living in the moment BS.

Living in the moment? I've thought it for a long time...starting in 16 when we got to see Leonard flourish more and specifically in 17.

You morons are seriously under-rating how good Leonard is.

[StrongLurk]

Was the 03 Spurs title an asterisk? How about the 99 title?

Not beating one of the best teams in NBA history does not mean your title has an asterisk.

Take a step back and think about it...how many teams in NBA history are capable of beating a healthy Warriors team?

The 99 title was DEFINITELY weak as ****. Not sure if I would say ASTERISK, but the Spurs playing a freaking EIGHT SEED in the finals :roll:.

Clear asterisks in recent times are 2015 finals and 2019 finals.

[DMAVS41]

lmao even post-game they are saying, raptors were lucky the warriors were injured

Of course they were. That isn't the debate.

You could say the same thing about so many title teams in history.

How about just being lucky you don't have to play an all-time great team in the finals?

I'm assuming you agree that almost all of the Spurs rings have an asterisk given their horrid finals competition like the 07 Cavs.

[DMAVS41]

The 99 title was DEFINITELY weak as ****. Not sure if I would say ASTERISK, but the Spurs playing a freaking EIGHT SEED in the finals :roll:.

Clear asterisks in recent times are 2015 finals and 2019 finals.

This is a stupid distinction.

So we give a team full credit for a title just because they are lucky enough to play a historically weak team in the finals, but don't give a team full credit that benefits from injuries...

Why?

The Spurs playing the 07 Cavs is easily weaker than the Raptors playing a depleted Warriors team.

[1987_Lakers]

Of course they were. That isn't the debate.

You could say the same thing about so many title teams in history.

How about just being lucky you don't have to play an all-time great team in the finals?

I'm assuming you agree that almost all of the Spurs rings have an asterisk given their horrid finals competition like the 07 Cavs.

Not at this level though. 1989, 2015, & 2019 are the only seasons that come to mind where injuries really affected the outcome of a series.

[StrongLurk]

Of course they were. That isn't the debate.

You could say the same thing about so many title teams in history.

How about just being lucky you don't have to play an all-time great team in the finals?

I'm assuming you agree that almost all of the Spurs rings have an asterisk given their horrid finals competition like the 07 Cavs.

Dude we are talking about MAJOR INJURIES.

The reigning two-time FMVP and best player in the world played 12 hobbled minutes, Klay missed time, Cousins was never 100% healthy from last year and even got reinjured earlier in the playoffs.

We aren't saying the Raptors as a team didn't play well...but the Warriors had lost MASSIVE firepower.

Hell, KD ALONE not playing is a huge asterisk, he is a top 5 finals player of all time.

Imagine MICHAEL JORDAN, SHAQ, or LEBRON missing basically an entire finals...

[juju151111]

Living in the moment? I've thought it for a long time...starting in 16 when we got to see Leonard flourish more and specifically in 17.

You morons are seriously under-rating how good Leonard is.
You thought it in 16 when Durant raped him in the playoffs:wtf:

[DMAVS41]

Not at this level though. 1989, 2015, & 2019 are the only seasons that come to mind where injuries really affected the outcome of a series.

I reject your argument that injuries are all that matter.

This Warriors team, even with the injuries, was easily better than many other teams that have made the finals. Again, the 99 Knicks, 03 Nets, and 07 Cavs don't touch this Warriors team.

So you can say something like;

"This Raptors team really lucked out in terms of injuries in the finals"

And I'll agree, but you can't act like this Raptors team had it easier than a lot of previous title winners that lucked out playing shit teams. Which is what you are trying to do...and it makes no sense.

[DMAVS41]

Dude we are talking about MAJOR INJURIES.

The reigning two-time FMVP and best player in the world played 12 hobbled minutes, Klay missed time, Cousins was never 100% healthy from last year and even got reinjured earlier in the playoffs.

We aren't saying the Raptors as a team didn't play well...but the Warriors had lost MASSIVE firepower.

Hell, KD ALONE not playing is a huge asterisk, he is a top 5 finals player of all time.

Imagine MICHAEL JORDAN, SHAQ, or LEBRON missing basically an entire finals...

You are, I'm not.

Why would I penalize the Raptors in a way that doesn't make sense. You don't think they destroy the 07 Cavs?

You really think the Raptors wouldn't have rather faced the ****ing 07 Cavs?

[egokiller]

2015, 2016, and 2019 are all asterisk titles because of multiple injuries.

Idiots think stacked teams = asterisk if the key players are all healthy? Um... no. :roll:

[DMAVS41]

You thought it in 16 when Durant raped him in the playoffs:wtf:

Yea...when I see a player start to produce like that offensively who also happens to be on the short list for best wing defender ever...he's going to be very high on my list of players...

Especially when the comparison is a guy like Durant.

[warriorfan]

2015, 2016, and 2019 are all asterisk titles because of multiple injuries.

Idiots think stacked teams = asterisk if the key players are all healthy? Um... no. :roll:

This

[Uncle Drew]

Asterisk titles don't exist.

[Grey Dawn]

People saying asterisk are just insecure Bron and GS fans mad thst people said asterisk for their titles.

[Bawkish]

this is what happens when the super team concept is ingrained in our minds as if it is the norm

if we're going to nitpick seriously, GSW is a definition of an asterisk team

having so many superstars in 1 team changes everything, now when 1 or 2 superstars were incapable it's considered a travesty?

Raptors only has Kawhi, with a very good supporting cast

GSW had 4 fcking all-stars

[oh the horror]

this is what happens when the super team concept is ingrained in our minds as if it is the norm

if we're going to nitpick seriously, GSW is a definition of an asterisk team

having so many superstars in 1 team changes everything, now when 1 or 2 superstars were incapable it's considered a travesty?

Raptors only has Kawhi, with a very good supporting cast

GSW had 4 fcking all-stars




It

[Cleverness]

Warriors fan here.

Raptors outplayed the Warriors who were on the court. Lost fair and square imo. I think we would have won if we weren't injured, but that's how it went down.

If anyone says asterisk title, then they first have to define what an "asterisk title" is. Without defining it, their words are meaningless.

[sportjames23]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L6pwtGc6/asterisk.jpg



*2016

[Bankaii]

*2016
In 2016 many games did Curry miss? Or Klay? Or Dray due to reasons outside of his control?

How about you honor your bet you spineless bitch.

[RoseCity07]

Warriors fan can't admit Curry just sucks. He's just a chucker and system player. He got exposed without big brother Klay laying down the pipe.

[RRR3]

People saying asterisk are just insecure Bron and GS fans mad thst people said asterisk for their titles.
There’s definitely truth to this statement.

[RRR3]

In 2016 many games did Curry miss? Or Klay? Or Dray due to reasons outside of his control?

How about you honor your bet you spineless bitch.
:roll:



GET. HIS. ASS.


















That’s my best sportjames23 impression btw.

[Cleverness]

Those claiming asterisk, let me ask you this -

define asterisk title and explain what you plan to accomplish by saying it.

[RRR3]

Those claiming asterisk, let me ask you this -

define asterisk title and explain what you plan to accomplish by saying it.
There are no such thing as asterisk titles due to injuries or circumstance. The only case I would say a title could be seen as an asterisk is with corrupt reffing.

[DMAVS41]

Those claiming asterisk, let me ask you this -

define asterisk title and explain what you plan to accomplish by saying it.

They won't and they can't.

Because implicit in what they are saying is that the injuries reduced the quality of the team the Raptors beat in the finals. Of course this is true...

However, how about the teams that won the title playing way worse teams than even an injured Warriors team?

99 Knicks, 02/03 Nets, 07 Cavs, 09 Magic...etc.

Even worse, often championship teams are far more stacked than the Raptors and don't have to play multiple series in which losing is possible. This Raptors team had to win two 50/50 series (Sixers/Bucks) and still play quite well to beat a Warriors team that, even with the injuries, was still quite good.

To argue that somehow the Raptors title would have been more earned if they played a healthy 07 Cavs team in the finals is about as dumb as it gets imo.

[k0kakw0rld]

I mean, we all know Toronto would have gotten their shit pushed in if the Warriors were healthy, but it's apart of the game. Respect to the Raptors.
4 all stars vs 1 all star.

[Mr Feeny]

4 all stars vs 1 all star.

Moreover, it's a dumb post. Toronto beat the Warriors in the regular season when the Warriors had Durant. They happen to match up well with them. Nobody knows what would have happened had everyone been healthy for Golden State and we shouldn't have people acting as if they know that GS would have won. That's conjecture. The only facts are that the Raptors beat the Warriors and swept and embarrassed them at the Oracle.

[FireDavidKahn]

Congrats OP on agreeing that none of LeBron's rings are "asterisk".

These Warriors weren't nearly as good as the ones that LeBron faced. A lot less depth, no KD, no Klay for the final quarter (when he was on fire).

Any objective person can see that this years Warriors team was a shell of what it normally was.

[DMAVS41]

Congrats OP on agreeing that none of LeBron's rings are "asterisk".

These Warriors weren't nearly as good as the ones that LeBron faced. A lot less depth, no KD, no Klay for the final quarter (when he was on fire).

Any objective person can see that this years Warriors team was a shell of what it normally was.


Of course, I don't think anyone would or has disputed the bold.

However, not being able to beat perhaps the best team of all time does not mean a title has an asterisk next to it.

[TheMan]

the only content of this thread should be:


are 2015 and 2018 also injuries?


yes, yes they are
Don't be a bitch and leave out 2016

[StrongLurk]

[/B][/I]

Of course, I don't think anyone would or has disputed the bold.

However, not being able to beat perhaps the best team of all time does not mean a title has an asterisk next to it.

The Raptors would not have won if KD and Klay were healthy. This is the fact that causes the asterisk ring.

You are thinking too hard about it honestly. We ARENT saying the Raptors aren't a championship level team...that's a different discussion.

[DMAVS41]

The Raptors would not have won if KD and Klay were healthy. This is the fact that causes the asterisk ring.

You are thinking too hard about it honestly. We ARENT saying the Raptors aren't a championship level team...that's a different discussion.

But you aren't carrying this thought through for other years and are way too narrow and limited on your thought process.

The 09 and 10 Lakers (along with most title winning teams) would not have won if they played a team as good as a healthy Warriors team.

Is that supposed to mean something to me? Because it sure doesn't.

This is why the whole concept of "asterisk rings" makes no sense.

Hey, its ok for the Spurs to win a ring off a d-league level squad, but the hell if we are going to give full credit to a Raptors team that beat better teams en route to the finals and a better team in the finals.

Again, think about how ****ing stupid the bold is.

Now, if you want to be consistent and claim that more than half of title winning teams in the modern era have an "asterisk"...okay, but that seems awfully silly.

[StrongLurk]

But you aren't carrying this thought through for other years and are way too narrow and limited on your thought process.

The 09 and 10 Lakers (along with most title winning teams) would not have won if they played a team as good as a healthy Warriors team.

Is that supposed to mean something to me? Because it sure doesn't.

This is why the whole concept of "asterisk rings" makes no sense.

Hey, its ok for the Spurs to win a ring off a d-league level squad, but the hell if we are going to give full credit to a Raptors team that beat better teams en route to the finals and a better team in the finals.

Again, think about how ****ing stupid the bold is.

Now, if you want to be consistent and claim that more than half of title winning teams in the modern era have an "asterisk"...okay, but that seems awfully silly.

Which teams have made the finals but ended up decimated by injuries?

I have carried this thought through other years. The 2015 finals were asterisked as well.

The raps would have lost to the Warriors with KD/Klay healthy. Simple.

[TheMan]

This whole asterisk nonsense is such BS, grow up, injuries happen, shoulda, coulda, woulda don't exist. Injuries have affected the game since the beginning, Isiah Thomas doesn't get hurt in GM 6 in the 88 Finals, Detroit would most likely have won those Finals, tell me who outside of this shit forum claims that Lakers title has an "asterisk"? Pippen blew his back out in the 98 playoffs, MJ carried the Bulls to the title but had he not, no one would call that an asterisk Jazz title. 2015 Cavs were missing 2 of their top 3 scorers, again I don't see people outside of ISH calling that an asterisk ring...I can come up with more examples, injuries are a part of the game, this isn't NBA 2K19 you snowflakes.

Raps are legit champs...and this coming from a Bulls fan who saw our title hopes destroyed by injuries, most notably DRose...

[DMAVS41]

Which teams have made the finals but ended up decimated by injuries?

I have carried this thought through other years. The 2015 finals were asterisked as well.

Again, you are thinking too narrow.

Why focus on injuries when even a depleted Warriors team is easily better than a bunch of finals competition.

Again, what do injuries matter if the team after the injuries is still better than teams like 07 Cavs, Nets, Magic, Knicks...etc?

Like, so you'd be giving the Raptors full credit right now if they beat a team equally as good as the 07 Cavs as long as they were healthy?

Ok, carry on...

[DMAVS41]

Which teams have made the finals but ended up decimated by injuries?

I have carried this thought through other years. The 2015 finals were asterisked as well.

The raps would have lost to the Warriors with KD/Klay healthy. Simple.


So would the 99 Spurs, most of 3 peat Lakers if not all, 03 Spurs, 04 Pistons, 05 Spurs, 06 Heat, 07 Spurs, 08 Celtics, 09/10 Lakers, 11 Mavs, 12/13 Heat, 14 Spurs, 15 Warriors, 16 Cavs

You know, every single team since MJ retired would be dogs in that series...most would have no chance at all.

So, again, what is the point you think you are making again?

[StrongLurk]

Again, you are thinking too narrow.

Why focus on injuries when even a depleted Warriors team is easily better than a bunch of finals competition.

Again, what do injuries matter if the team after the injuries is still better than teams like 07 Cavs, Nets, Magic, Knicks...etc?

Like, so you'd be giving the Raptors full credit right now if they beat a team equally as good as the 07 Cavs as long as they were healthy?

Ok, carry on...

You are conflating weaker rings with asterisk rings.

Some rings are clearly weaker than others...but a weak ring does not equal an asterisk ring.

[TheMan]

this is what happens when the super team concept is ingrained in our minds as if it is the norm

if we're going to nitpick seriously, GSW is a definition of an asterisk team

having so many superstars in 1 team changes everything, now when 1 or 2 superstars were incapable it's considered a travesty?

Raptors only has Kawhi, with a very good supporting cast

GSW had 4 fcking all-stars
:applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Asterisk? Nah. I wont pretend that Toronto winning didn't felt hollow though.


But you aren't carrying this thought through for other years and are way too narrow and limited on your thought process.

The 09 and 10 Lakers (along with most title winning teams) would not have won if they played a team as good as a healthy Warriors team.

Is that supposed to mean something to me? Because it sure doesn't.

This is why the whole concept of "asterisk rings" makes no sense.

Hey, its ok for the Spurs to win a ring off a d-league level squad, but the hell if we are going to give full credit to a Raptors team that beat better teams en route to the finals and a better team in the finals.

Again, think about how ****ing stupid the bold is.

Now, if you want to be consistent and claim that more than half of title winning teams in the modern era have an "asterisk"...okay, but that seems awfully silly.

Losing KD leveled the playing field. With him I get why you're making the argument you are... but when Klay went down? Its just not the same. The Warriors had to overcome too much.

Lets remove KD though...

Couldn't one just say you play whose in front of you?

Relative to THAT year.

I think bringing up other years AND cross comparing teams from YEARS back...makes it a different argument.

[StrongLurk]

[/B]

So would the 99 Spurs, most of 3 peat Lakers if not all, 03 Spurs, 04 Pistons, 05 Spurs, 06 Heat, 07 Spurs, 08 Celtics, 09/10 Lakers, 11 Mavs, 12/13 Heat, 14 Spurs, 15 Warriors, 16 Cavs

You know, every single team since MJ retired would be dogs in that series...most would have no chance at all.

So, again, what is the point you think you are making again?

My point is the Raps ONLY WON because of injuries...how many chips would the Bulls win with MJ not playing? What about Shaq or Lebron not playing?

[DMAVS41]

My point is the Raps ONLY WON because of injuries...how many chips would the Bulls win with MJ not playing? What about Shaq or Lebron not playing?

No, you said that the Raptors would not have won against a healthy Warriors team.

Again, neither would most teams in NBA history.

It is a non point, sorry.

[StrongLurk]

No, you said that the Raptors would not have won against a healthy Warriors team.

Again, neither would most teams in NBA history.

It is a non point, sorry.

I've been saying this the whole time...

Raps only won due to injuries, hence asterisk.

It's not like KD missed one half...he missed basically the whole series.

[DMAVS41]

You are conflating weaker rings with asterisk rings.

Some rings are clearly weaker than others...but a weak ring does not equal an asterisk ring.

According to your definitions, but I'm not adopting that narrow thinking.

[DMAVS41]

I've been saying this the whole time...

I know, and it makes no sense as a point because if that is the cause of the asterisk, then you have to apply it to other championship teams.

[StrongLurk]

I know, and it makes no sense as a point because if that is the cause of the asterisk, then you have to apply it to other championship teams.

WHICH I HAVE BEEN DOING? HOW ARE YOU NOT FOLLOWING?

I GAVE YOU THE 2015 FINALS AS WELL FOR A RECENT ASTERISK. CAVS HAD NO LOVE AND NO KYRIE GAMES 2-6

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

WHICH I HAVE BEEN DOING? HOW ARE YOU NOT FOLLOWING?

I GAVE YOU THE 2015 FINALS AS WELL FOR A RECENT ASTERISK.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Dude, I'm talking about applying the wide concept of "not beating a healthy Warriors team" to all the other championship teams.

Again, please follow along...I am rejecting your narrow view of things.

:cheers:

[DMAVS41]

Asterisk? Nah. I wont pretend that Toronto winning didn't felt hollow though.



Losing KD leveled the playing field. With him I get why you're making the argument you are... but when Klay went down? Its just not the same. The Warriors had to overcome too much.

Lets remove KD though...

Couldn't one just say you play whose in front of you?

Relative to THAT year.

I think bringing up other years AND cross comparing teams from YEARS back...makes it a different argument.

Of course, but I like consistency in arguments.

And if you are going to somewhat penalize the Raptors here and not the 07 Spurs, for example, I can't get with it.

The 07 Cavs are worse than this Warriors team the Raptors just beat, quite easily.

Why put an asterisk next to one and not the other?

To me, it is just a dumb concept all together...but especially dumb here. The Raptors beat a championship level Bucks team, a very talented Sixers team, and still a very good Warriors team.

They had real chances to lose against the Bucks and Sixers. Most title teams have a much wider margin for error to make the finals than this Raptors team did....and then again, even the depleted Warriors are better than quite a few title competition teams just in this era alone.

Just don't see how likely not being able to beat arguably the best team ever is evidence of anything against this Raptors team.

[StrongLurk]

Dude, I'm talking about applying the wide concept of "not beating a healthy Warriors team" to all the other championship teams.

Again, please follow along...I am rejecting your narrow view of things.

:cheers:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Again, I never said the Raptors were NOT a championship level team. That is a different discussion IMO, which it where you are at.

I am saying the Raptors are only champions this year due to injury. Yeah the Warriors stacked the fukin deck and I'm GLAD they lost. But we know the deal...

Besides, this was the weakest Warriors team easily of the last 5 years.

[DMAVS41]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Again, I never said the Raptors were NOT a championship level team. That is a different discussion IMO, which it where you are at.

I am saying the Raptors are only champions this year due to injury. Yeah the Warriors stacked the fukin deck and I'm GLAD they lost. But we know the deal...

Besides, this was the weakest Warriors team easily of the last 5 years.

Agree with the bold.

And, while the Warriors healthy would have been clear favorites...I really think the Raptors had roughly a 30% chance to win.

:cheers:

[sportjames23]

In 2016 many games did Curry miss? Or Klay? Or Dray due to reasons outside of his control?

How about you honor your bet you spineless bitch.

You still mad, you little trick ass bitch? :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]:roll:



GET. HIS. ASS.


















That

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]When the other teams best player plays 10 minutes and the third best missed a game and can

[Charlie Sheen]

No asterisk. It's a championship. You can add whatever flavor of context you want when arguing with your buddies. Raps are still champs.

[tpols]

They don't get much credit for beating a decimated warrior team, but you do have to give them major credit for beating bucks and sixers.

[Mr Feeny]

They would have lost vs a healthy Warriors team, the whole world knows it. Bringing up the injury breaks the Warriors had in the past doesn't change that.

How have you just decided that they would have? We know no such thing. I think it goes to 7 either way and the Raptors had a good chance of winning.

[Mr Feeny]

They don't get much credit for beating a decimated warrior team, but you do have to give them major credit for beating bucks and sixers.

Who did Kawhi have on his team? Beating a 3 superstar team (the Warriors kinus Kd) IS an accomplishment. Klay played a significant chunk of the series and in the games in which play played but KD didn't, they outplayed GS.

[RealSkipBayless]

Who did Kawhi have on his team? Beating a 3 superstar team (the Warriors kinus Kd) IS an accomplishment. Klay played a significant chunk of the series and in the games in which play played but KD didn't, they outplayed GS.
The warriors had 3 superstars playing? Who were they?

[Mr Feeny]

The warriors had 3 superstars playing? Who were they?

Curry, Draymond, and Klay. Not that all of them played like it.

[DMAVS41]

How have you just decided that they would have? We know no such thing. I think it goes to 7 either way and the Raptors had a good chance of winning.

Exactly.

And I'll keep saying it on repeat until I hear a response that addresses it...

The argument that "the Raptors would have lost to a healthy Warriors team"...therefore it is an asterisk is an incredibly silly and narrow argument.

For a couple reasons...

One being that we actually don't know what would have happened. Of course I think the Warriors win, but we actually don't know. Raptors were really good and would have had the best player in the series imo.

Next, most teams that have won the title in NBA history would be underdogs to a fully healthy Warriors team. Obviously the Warriors wouldn't beat everyone, but they are on the short list for greatest team ever. So the argument that the Raptors would have lost to a healthy Warriors team means nothing. Most championship teams would have.

So, it boils down to pretending that it was somehow impressive for Kobe/Shaq and some of the Spurs teams to beat teams that aren't even close to as good as an injured Warriors team...

No difference at all for a team to benefit from injuries vs benefiting from playing a shit team like the 07 Cavs in the finals.

Just not a logical or consistent argument for the asterisk group.

[RealSkipBayless]

Curry, Draymond, and Klay. Not that all of them played like it.
Not sure about calling Draymond a superstar. Some people don't even have him top 20 in the league.

[Mr Know It All]

Curry, Draymond, and Klay. Not that all of them played like it.

If you think Draymond and Klay are superstars you don't know much about this league.

[aj1987]

Curry, Draymond, and Klay. Not that all of them played like it.
Draymond is a superstar? Get your brain scanned, son.

[bigkingsfan]

Curry, Draymond, and Klay. Not that all of them played like it.
Klay didn't make an all-nba team for three years now.
Dray two.

Superstars though.

[Mr Feeny]

Klay didn't make an all-nba team for three years now.
Dray two.

Superstars though.

Making the all star team isnt a measure of being a great player and you know that. Lowry is an all star this year while Kyrie wasnt one in 2016. Who is the better player?

That's just silly.

[bigkingsfan]

Making the all star team isnt a measure of being a great player and you know that. Lowry is an all star this year while Kyrie wasnt one in 2016. Who is the better player?

That's just silly.
Not all-star
Making the all-nba consistently is an indicator of Super Star level play doofus.

[Mr Feeny]

Not all-star
Making the all-nba consistently is an indicator of Super Star level play doofus.

Is Kemba Walker currently a better player than Klay Thompson? There is just no possible way you believe that.

[bigkingsfan]

Is Kemba Walker currently a better player than Klay Thompson? There is just no possible way you believe that.
"The voting is conducted by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters"

So yes, the majority thought Kemba was better this year, and he's not even near Superstar.

[Mr Feeny]

"The voting is conducted by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters"

So yes, the majority thought Kemba was better this year.

Exactly my point. A panel thinks that he's better. It doesn't make him better.
By that token, Paul George was a better player than lebron this year and Kemba was neck and neck with Lebron.

The majority of fans would disagree with that.

[bigkingsfan]

Exactly my point. A panel thinks that he's better. It doesn't make him better.
By that token, Paul George was a better player than lebron this year and Kemba was neck and neck with Lebron.

The majority of fans would disagree with that.
But he's a Superstar along with Dray, according to you, STFU.

Lebron missed a tons of games and still made 3rd team, has nothing to do with above.

[Mr Feeny]

But he's a Superstar along with Dray, according to you, STFU.

Lebron missed a tons of games and still made 3rd team, has nothing to do with above.

What are you mouthing on about? He is a superstar in my view.
You brought all NBA into things as if that's the determining factor. If it is, then Paul George is a better player than Lebron, because he made all 2nd team. That's not my view. Because I dont care what the all NBA teams are.

[bigkingsfan]

What are you mouthing on about? He is a superstar in my view.
You brought all NBA into things as if that's the determining factor. If it is, then Paul George is a better player than Lebron, because he made all 2nd team. That's not my view. Because I dont care what the all NBA teams are.
All-NBA is a huge indicator, try naming players in history that missed three consecutive appearances in his prime and still be consider a Superstar.

[Mr Feeny]

All-NBA is a huge indicator, try naming players in history that missed three consecutive appearances in his prime and still be consider a Superstar.

Ewing in 94, 95, and 96. That's sort of my point. It depends on how much stock you put into it. And I just dont put as much stock into it as some do.

It's the same reason I didnt rate Kobe as highly as his fans did during those 2011-2014 seasons because I didnt think that all the NBA 1st team and 1st team all defense were always earned. But it's just a matter of opinion.

[aj1987]

But he's a Superstar along with Dray, according to you, STFU.

Lebron missed a tons of games and still made 3rd team, has nothing to do with above.
The kid is legit brain damaged. Best to ignore him. :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Ah my lap dog is still following me around, I see. I'd feel flattered if I weren't alarmed by this odd obsession.

[lakerstekkenn]

[QUOTE=oh the horror]How mad are you right now?


That

[Mr Feeny]

Huston with CP3 if he's not injured they probably win that game 7

And they should have anyway. They set an NBa record for most missed 3s in a row and blew a colossal lead. Had they just used their heads and drove, they would have eliminated the KD warriors even without Chris Paul.

[bigkingsfan]

Ewing in 94, 95, and 96. That's sort of my point. It depends on how much stock you put into it. And I just dont put as much stock into it as some do.

It's the same reason I didnt rate Kobe as highly as his fans did during those 2011-2014 seasons because I didnt think that all the NBA 1st team and 1st team all defense were always earned. But it's just a matter of opinion.
Patrick was definitely on the downside of his career by 1996. He was only a "superstar" by name and market.

[Mr Feeny]

Patrick was definitely on the downside of his career by 1996. He was only a "superstar" by name and market.

But I think you'd agree that he was a bonafide superstar in 94 and 95. He and Starks were shadows of themselves 96 onwards. You're right.

[bigkingsfan]

But I think you'd agree that he was a bonafide superstar in 94 and 95. He and Starks were shadows of themselves 96 onwards. You're right.
He was a Superstar in 94, but took a huge hit after the Houston series. He also had to compete for the C position against Robinson, Shaq and Hakeem back then, one spot per team.

[superduper]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[aj1987]

Patrick was definitely on the downside of his career by 1996. He was only a "superstar" by name and market.
Going by the retard's logic, Vucci is a superstar today.

'95 Ewing Per 36 - 23/11/3/1/2 on 56% TS

'19 Vucci Per 36 - 24/14/4/1/1 on 57% TS

Even if you want to do advanced stats:

Ewing - 3.1 OWS 6.5 DWS 9.6 WS .157 WS/48 -0.7 OBPM 2.9 DBPM 2.2 BPM 3.1 VORP

Net Rtg - +8

Vucci - 5.4 OWS 4.7 DWS 10.1 WS .193 WS/48 3.0 OBPM 3.4 DBPM 6.4 BPM 5.3 VORP

Net Rtg - +12

Literally every metric points to Vucci being a superstar as well. :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

Going by the retard's logic, Vucci is a superstar today.

'95 Ewing Per 36 - 23/11/3/1/2 on 56% TS

'19 Vucci Per 36 - 24/14/4/1/1 on 57% TS

Even if you want to do advanced stats:

Ewing - 3.1 OWS 6.5 DWS 9.6 WS .157 WS/48 -0.7 OBPM 2.9 DBPM 2.2 BPM 3.1 VORP

Net Rtg - +8

Vucci - 5.4 OWS 4.7 DWS 10.1 WS .193 WS/48 3.0 OBPM 3.4 DBPM 6.4 BPM 5.3 VORP

Net Rtg - +12

Literally every metric points to Vucci being a superstar as well. :confusedshrug:

If this kid doesnt think that Ewing was a superstar in 1995, there's no point in having a basketball discussion. Stupidity can only go so far.

[9peat11]

There is no problem with an " asterisk title " teams win with injured competition all the time.the problem is that this is the biggest asterisk in the history of sports and not even close. K.d being out is like shaq or Jordan being out and that's without even mentioning that the warriors may have still won if klay hadn't gotten injured. This is bigger than an asterisk. This is the first legit NBA champion fraud in history. Truly some unprecedented shit went down here. I hope the raptors are hearing all the noise like the 2015 warriors did after there " fraud title" . Maybe the raps can repeat in 2020 and put any doubts to rest. They're definitely gonna need to because the title they just won is the most tainted in history. It's not an asterisk, it's bigger than that. They flat out got lucky which is stupid to say because they won the finals but I don't recall a bigger , luckier champion in sports history. This is no hyperbole. Can someone name a luckier champion?

[aj1987]

If this kid doesnt think that Ewing was a superstar in 1995, there's no point in having a basketball discussion. Stupidity can only go so far.
I was going by your logic, you mouth breathing retard. Now just answer the question. Is Vucci a superstar today? Literally every single metric is in Vucci's favor and he made the All-Star team as well.

The only legit superstars in '95 were Shaq, D-Rob, Malone, Chuck, and MJ (after he came back).

[DMAVS41]

There is no problem with an " asterisk title " teams win with injured competition all the time.the problem is that this is the biggest asterisk in the history of sports and not even close. K.d being out is like shaq or Jordan being out and that's without even mentioning that the warriors may have still won if klay hadn't gotten injured. This is bigger than an asterisk. This is the first legit NBA champion fraud in history. Truly some unprecedented shit went down here. I hope the raptors are hearing all the noise like the 2015 warriors did after there " fraud title" . Maybe the raps can repeat in 2020 and put any doubts to rest. They're definitely gonna need to because the title they just won is the most tainted in history. It's not an asterisk, it's bigger than that. They flat out got lucky which is stupid to say because they won the finals but I don't recall a bigger , luckier champion in sports history. This is no hyperbole. Can someone name a luckier champion?

Sure, the 07 Spurs.

They lucked into the best team in the conference losing in round 1, didn't play anyone that could beat them the entire conference playoffs, and then played one of, if not the worst, finals teams ever.

These Raptors faced harder competition every step of the way...

Not sure how you get "luckier" than playing some of the weakest competition in NBA history en route to the title.

[Mr Feeny]

I was going by your logic, you mouth breathing retard. Now just answer the question. Is Vucci a superstar today? Literally every single metric is in Vucci's favor and he made the All-Star team as well.

The only legit superstars in '95 were Shaq, D-Rob, Malone, Chuck, and MJ (after he came back).

Stop crying. Who on earth mentioned V? You did. Nobody else. What does he have to do with Ewing?

If you dont think Ewing was a superstar in 1995, then you dont understand basketball. Which I already know.

Now, why are you still following me around like my lapdog?

[aj1987]

Stop crying. Who on earth mentioned V? You did. Nobody else. What does he have to do with Ewing?

If you dont think Ewing was a superstar in 1995, then you dont understand basketball. Which I already know.

Now, why are you still following me around like my lapdog?
I guess you're one of those retards who thinks a player putting up x stats makes him a superstar. I'm just wasting my time trying to educate a subhuman retard, who has never watched a minute of basketball.

[Mr Feeny]

I guess you're one of those retards who thinks a player putting up x stats makes him a superstar. I'm just wasting my time trying to educate a subhuman retard, who has never watched a minute of basketball.

Stick to eating curry.

[Elosha]

[QUOTE=oh the horror]How mad are you right now?


That

[aj1987]

Stick to eating curry.
Better than sticking to eating ***** like you, little one. :cheers: