Now that the dynasty is over, where would you rank the Warriors all-time as a team?

[1987_Lakers]

I believe they are the only team to win 67+ games in 3 consecutive seasons.

As far as talent goes, we never saw a team that matches the Warriors, they didn't have the longevity of the 80's Lakers or 90's Bulls, but at their best they probably beat both teams in a 7 game series. I'd take the 2017 Warriors over any team in history for that matter. 3 titles in 5 years with 5 finals appearances isn't bad at all, they won the same amount of titles as Bird's Celtics in a lesser amount of time.

Thoughts?

[ArbitraryWater]

KD-Warriors?

GOAT Team. At least the '17 version.

KD-less Warriors?

Would honestly be in danger of being an infamous perennial 2nd place loser, title-less.

Of course still better than whatever team KD would be in though. So in no way saying KD > Curry.

[SpaceJam2]

I believe they are the only team to win 67+ games in 3 consecutive seasons.

As far as talent goes, we never saw a team that matches the Warriors, they didn't have the longevity of the 80's Lakers or 90's Bulls, but at their best they probably beat both teams in a 7 game series. I'd take the 2017 Warriors over any team in history for that matter. 3 titles in 5 years with 5 finals appearances isn't bad at all, they won the same amount of titles as Bird's Celtics in a lesser amount of time.

Thoughts?

Pretty spot on

Bulls are out by default because they can't shoot and the league requires more skill nowadays

[Doranku]

I guess we're just talking about the '17-18 Warriors? Because there was nothing special about them before KD joined, moreso a disappointment than anything after losing in 2016.

Super loaded team but they faced pretty poor competition. If the Rockets were a CP3 injury away from beating them, they'd be fodder for those Lakers/Celtics/Bulls dynasties. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would probably shit on them.

Think you're overrating them hard. Also, let's not forget what Kawhi was doing to those 2017 Warriors before he went down.

I know every team benefits from injuries in one way or another, but these Warriors have taken it to a whole other level.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not high on the KD-less Warriors.

They're a good championship team. Just not the caliber of those Bulls, Celtic and Laker teams imo.

KD's Warriors? Right there with any team in history. Specifically the 2017 iteration.

[ArbitraryWater]

I guess we're just talking about the '17-18 Warriors? Because there was nothing special about them before KD joined, moreso a disappointment than anything after losing in 2016.

Super loaded team but they faced pretty poor competition. If the Rockets were a CP3 injury away from beating them, they'd be fodder for those Lakers/Celtics/Bulls dynasties. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would probably shit on them.

Think you're overrating them hard.

:facepalm

Jezuz, youre just adding to it after your gem of "no player could have this toronto team where it is in place of kawhi"

The 2018 Rockets are an historically great team.


They 4-1'ed Minny and Utah B2B


65-win team, 8.21 SRS. Historically great as it is, Paul missed 24 games, in which Houston went 15-9 (63%). That means a complete Houston Rockets team as was the one of the post-season went 50-8 (86%) which is a 71-win pace, and would register as 3rd greatest record in NBA history.

Over the last 3 years, besides an errant Lou Williams GOATing, the only team to win more than 1 game against KD-GSW.


The 2018 Rockets have the highest adjusted offensive rating in NBA history (!!)



Please, learn, and be more appreciative/respectful.

[Doranku]

:facepalm

Jezuz, youre just adding to it after your gem of "no player could have this toronto team where it is in place of kawhi"

The 2018 Rockets are an historically great team.


They 4-1'ed Minny and Utah B2B


65-win team, 8.21 SRS. Historically great as it is, Paul missed 24 games, in which Houston went 15-9 (63%). That means a complete Houston Rockets team as was the one of the post-season went 50-8 (86%) which is a 71-win pace, and would register as 3rd greatest record in NBA history.

Over the last 3 years, besides an errant Lou Williams GOATing, the only team to win more than 1 game against KD-GSW.


The 2018 Rockets have the highest adjusted offensive rating in NBA history (!!)



Please, learn, and be more appreciative/respectful.

4-1'd Minny and Utah? Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to be impressed that they beat KAT/Wiggins, and Rudy Gobert in 5 games each? :roll: Not even going to bother the read the rest of your garbage.

[1987_Lakers]

I guess we're just talking about the '17-18 Warriors? Because there was nothing special about them before KD joined, moreso a disappointment than anything after losing in 2016.

Super loaded team but they faced pretty poor competition. If the Rockets were a CP3 injury away from beating them, they'd be fodder for those Lakers/Celtics/Bulls dynasties. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would probably shit on them.

Think you're overrating them hard.

I mean, they did win 67 games and 73 games without KD, and beat a championship caliber team in OKC in the '16 WCF. Those 15-16 Warriors win a title if you put them in the league in say 2005-2011. With KD, it was pretty much a cheat code.

[SpaceJam2]

Hold up, didn't 2016 Warriors win 73 games and beat KD/Russ/Adams/Ibaka :lol

Don't get it twisted, that was their deepest best version of the GSW.

[ArbitraryWater]

4-1'd Minny and Utah? Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to be impressed that they beat KAT/Wiggins, and Rudy Gobert in 5 games each? :roll: Not even going to bother the read the rest of your garbage.

You are indeed better off ignoring it.

Wouldnt wanna get our pride in the way of owning up to stupidity.

Utah is the 3rd best team in the West, dummie.


KAT/Wiggins?

They also had Butler, with who'm they had a top 4 seed pre-injury; you massive mouth breathing retard.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hold up, didn't 2016 Warriors win 73 games and beat KD/Russ/Adams/Ibaka :lol

Don't get it twisted, that was their deepest best version of the GSW.

so what changed between the 2016 and 2017 finals?

[Doranku]

You are indeed better off ignoring it.

Wouldnt wanna get our pride in the way of owning up to stupidity.

Utah is the 3rd best team in the West, dummie.


KAT/Wiggins?

They also had Butler, with who'm they had a top 4 seed pre-injury; you massive mouth breathing retard.

Sorry, you aren't gonna convince me that a James Harden and Chris Paul led team were historically great. :oldlol: I couldn't care less how well the team played in the regular season. You know what you're getting from those guys in the playoffs, and it's anything but historically great.

[ArbitraryWater]

Sorry, you aren't gonna convince me that a James Harden and Chris Paul led team were historically great. :oldlol: I couldn't care less how well the team played in the regular season. You know what you're getting from those guys in the playoffs, and it's anything but historically great.

2017:
Warriors 4-0 vs Blazers
Warriors 4-0 vs Jazz
Warriors 4-0 vs Spurs
Warriors 4-1 vs Cavaliers

2018:
Warriors 4-1 vs Spurs
Warriors 4-1 vs Pelicans
Warriors 4-3 vs Rockets, 2-3 before Paul exit
Warriors 4-0 vs Cavaliers

yeah, they were absolute failures, regular season warriors.


Log off, you utter moron.


Teams dont fluke an 8+ SRS or 65+ wins. Stay ignorant.

[dazzer87]

Sorry, you aren't gonna convince me that a James Harden and Chris Paul led team were historically great. :oldlol: I couldn't care less how well the team played in the regular season. You know what you're getting from those guys in the playoffs, and it's anything but historically great.
these mofo really think that Houston team from last yr was one of the great of all time............... ISH...........

[Doranku]

2017:
Warriors 4-0 vs Blazers
Warriors 4-0 vs Jazz
Warriors 4-0 vs Spurs
Warriors 4-1 vs Cavaliers

2018:
Warriors 4-1 vs Spurs
Warriors 4-1 vs Pelicans
Warriors 4-3 vs Rockets, 2-3 before Paul exit
Warriors 4-0 vs Cavaliers

yeah, they were absolute failures, regular season warriors.


Log off, you utter moron.


Teams dont fluke an 8+ SRS or 65+ wins. Stay ignorant.

Why'd you stop?

2019:
Warriors 4-2 Lou Williams

Crazy how the historically great, juggernaut Rockets only managed to win one more game than Lou Williams.

BTW, the Bucks had an 8+ SRS this year and 60 wins. Can you believe Kawhi defeated that historically great team in 6 without HCA, then proceeded to beat the Warriors team that you keep sucking off in this thread?

Thank you for this arbitrary indicator of historical greatness. This solidifies my argument that Kawhi's '19 run > Bron's '12 and '13 runs. :applause:

[NBAGOAT]

Hou last year wasn

[iamgine]

Best team of all time.

Rank 5-10 in greatness.

[FKAri]

2017 Warriors are a top 4 GOAT team

[SouBeachTalents]

2017 Warriors are one of the greatest teams ever. 2018 was still a really good squad too. And while not as good without KD, 2015 & 2016 are still elite, best team in the league level

[Bronbron23]

17 warriors were great but are a little overrated as far as being the goat team. The teams they played during that playoff run were absolute trash other than Cleveland. Portlands best player was a mid tier star in dame. The jazz best player was a mid tier star in Hayward. The spurs best player was a mid tier star in Aldridge. The Cavs were solid but they didn't have the right strategy and style of play to beat a team as good as the warriors.

The following years the rockets had the same team beat if not for cp going down. That Houston team was good but nowhere near as good as some of the great teams in the past. 2012 heat, prime Duncan spurs, 2000's Lakers, 90's bulls and 80's Lakers and Celtics were all better way better than that rockets team that had the warriors beat.

[bizil]

They are fighting for 4th with the Kobe-Shaq Lakers. 60's Celtics, MJ's Bulls, and Showtime are the top 3. And I DON'T THINK the GSW dynasty is over. Let's pump our brakes! LOL I can't say either way we just gotta wait and see.

[SouBeachTalents]

17 warriors were great but are a little overrated as far as being the goat team. The teams they played during that playoff run were absolute trash other than Cleveland. Portlands best player was a mid tier star in dame. The jazz best player was a mid tier star in Hayward. The spurs best player was a mid tier star in Aldridge. The Cavs were solid but they didn't have the right strategy and style of play to beat a team as good as the warriors.

The following years the rockets had the same team beat if not for cp going down. That Houston team was good but nowhere near as good as some of the great teams in the past. 2012 heat, prime Duncan spurs, 2000's Lakers, 90's bulls and 80's Lakers and Celtics were all better way better than that rockets team that had the warriors beat.
Were last years Rockets really nowhere near the likes of the 2012 Celtics, 2000 Blazers, 1986 Rockets, 1987 Bucks, who all took the teams you listed to 7 games or beat them all together.

[Young X]

Sorry, you aren't gonna convince me that a James Harden and Chris Paul led team were historically great. :oldlol: I couldn't care less how well the team played in the regular season. You know what you're getting from those guys in the playoffs, and it's anything but historically great.What a silly post.

Both Harden and Paul are historically great players.

Good Lord.


I guess we're just talking about the '17-18 Warriors? Because there was nothing special about them before KD joined, moreso a disappointment than anything after losing in 2016.

Super loaded team but they faced pretty poor competition. If the Rockets were a CP3 injury away from beating them, they'd be fodder for those Lakers/Celtics/Bulls dynasties. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would probably shit on them.

Think you're overrating them hard. Also, let's not forget what Kawhi was doing to those 2017 Warriors before he went down.

I know every team benefits from injuries in one way or another, but these Warriors have taken it to a whole other level.Kobe and Shaq got taken to 5 games (in a best of 5) and 7 games by the Kings. That team REALLY had no historically great players.

Then they got taken to game 7 by the Blazers, another team with no superstar.

lol they're not shitting on a team with 4 all-stars in their primes. Please.

[DMAVS41]

Sorry, you aren't gonna convince me that a James Harden and Chris Paul led team were historically great. :oldlol: I couldn't care less how well the team played in the regular season. You know what you're getting from those guys in the playoffs, and it's anything but historically great.

Literally everything objective paints the 18 Rockets as a championship level team.

Shouldn't take convincing.

[Showtime80']

To me a true dynasty dominates a long period of time, not just a five year period that's why the NBA only has 3 legit dynasties, 60's Celtics, 80's Lakers and 90's Bulls, that's it, those decades are synonymous with those teams and nobody is touching them anytime soon.

The recent Warriors fall in that category of teams that had a consistent brief run but never truly dominated a for long time (8 to 10 years) like the above mentioned teams. Other teams that are in the Warriors category:

Shaq/Kobe Lakers- 2000-04 (4 Finals- 3peat)
Bird's Celtics- 80-88 (5 Finals- 3 titles)
Bad Boys- 87-91 (3 Finals- Repeat)
Reed/Frazier Knicks- 1969-74 (3 Finals- 2 Titles)
Kobe's Lakers (2008-2010) (3 Finals- 2 Titles)

Tim Duncan's Spurs are an enigma, they were probably the most consistent team in ALL OF SPORTS since 1999 (along with the Patriots) up to the mid 2010's but never truly had a stranglehold on the league, were bland in personality and style plus they never even repeated. Tough to gouge them.

[DMAVS41]

With KD they are on the short list of best team ever.

The 15/16 version were better than average championship level teams and we'll just never know what they would have been capable of with a non KD replacement of Barnes and more depth.

Wish we could have been in the universe in which KD stayed in OKC or went to another team and we got to see it.

My guess is that the Warriors still would have ended up with 3 rings in 5 years.

[Bronbron23]

Were last years Rockets really nowhere near the likes of the 2012 Celtics, 2000 Blazers, 1986 Rockets, 1987 Bucks, who all took the teams you listed to 7 games or beat them all together.
2012 Celtics no. That Celtics team was definitely better. 2000 blazers would absolutely crush the rockets because of there size and length. Pip would give harden fits also. I'll give you the bucks. Same goes for Houston but I'll give the bucks. Last year rockets team would match up well with them.

Point being is that the rockets team last year was good but not an atg great team. There are many teams in the history of the game that were better and alot of those teams would match up well against that warriors team

[Showtime80']

That's an entirely different discussion there MAVS 41.

If we're talking single season greatness, that opens it up to a whole bunch of teams like the 67 Sixers, 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers and 83 Sixers just to name of a few.

As of now the Warriors had a nice 5 year run in this decade (they didn't do crap and were irrelevant from 2010 to 2014) and that groups them with the teams I listed above but nowhere near the level of the ONLY three real dynasties in NBA history.

Let's see what they do in the next 4-5 years.

[DMAVS41]

That's an entirely different discussion there MAVS 41.

If we're talking single season greatness, that opens it up to a whole bunch of teams like the 67 Sixers, 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers and 83 Sixers just to name of a few.

As of now the Warriors had a nice 5 year run in this decade (they didn't do crap and were irrelevant from 2010 to 2014) and that groups them with the teams I listed above but nowhere near the level of the ONLY three real dynasties in NBA history.

Let's see what they do in the next 4-5 years.

Aren't we talking about what they've done and where they rank?

What would the next 5 years have to do with anything?

[Doranku]

What a silly post.

Both Harden and Paul are historically great players.

Good Lord.

Harden and Paul have done absolutely nothing historically great in the playoffs. Ever.


Kobe and Shaq got taken to 5 games (in a best of 5) and 7 games by the Kings. That team REALLY had no historically great players.

Then they got taken to game 7 by the Blazers, another team with no superstar.

lol they're not shitting on a team with 4 all-stars in their primes. Please.

Those Lakers teams had the perimeter defenders to bother GS' shooters. Durant would be an issue, but to nowhere near the extent that Shaq would be on the other end.

Shaq would utterly destroy their small ball lineups. Those GS teams have nobody to even throw at Shaq. Bogut? Looney? Draymond? Please. Lakers in 5.

[DMAVS41]

Harden and Paul have done absolutely nothing historically great in the playoffs. Ever.



Those Lakers teams had the perimeter defenders to bother GS' shooters. Durant would be an issue, but to nowhere near the extent that Shaq would be on the other end.

Shaq would utterly destroy their small ball lineups. Those GS teams have nobody to even throw at Shaq. Bogut? Looney? Draymond? Please. Lakers in 5.

Just not how it would go at all.

Good luck with Shaq having to run all over the court on defense...getting picked apart on the pick/roll...and being forced to recover...

Just to watch Curry/Klay/Durant bomb 3's...

Warriors would be fine with Shaq scoring a lot of 2's...

Series could go either way, but I'd take the Warriors in 6 or 7.

[Doranku]

Just not how it would go at all.

Good luck with Shaq having to run all over the court on defense...getting picked apart on the pick/roll...and being forced to recover...

Just to watch Curry/Klay/Durant bomb 3's...

Warriors would be fine with Shaq scoring a lot of 2's...

Series could go either way, but I'd take the Warriors in 6 or 7.

So you're telling me prime Shaq's defensive shortcomings in the P&R are going to have a bigger impact than his presence on the other end?

This is the playoffs, this isn't regular season ball. Warriors aren't going to be "fine" with Shaq scoring a lot of 2's every time down the floor. Then the game starts opening up for Kobe and the rest of the team.

Warriors probably get hot from 3 and take a couple games, but you really think that collection of players is going to respond well when their backs are up against the wall against prime Shaq & Kobe?

[Mr Feeny]

So you're telling me prime Shaq's defensive shortcomings in the P&R are going to have a bigger impact than his presence on the other end?

This is the playoffs, this isn't regular season ball. Warriors aren't going to be "fine" with Shaq scoring a lot of 2's every time down the floor. Then the game starts opening up for Kobe and the rest of the team.

Warriors probably get hot from 3 and take a couple games, but you really think that collection of players is going to respond well when their backs are up against the wall against prime Shaq & Kobe?

One of the teams would have to adjust to the other. Shaq would destroy Green, but he also had lots of trouble with pick and rolls, and regularly got shredded on defense by Stockton and Malone, and later on, baby Parker and Duncan, as well as Billups and whoever they ran picks with. That was always his Achilles heel. And it wasnt a secret. Jackson was talking about it being their weakness, even while the dynasty was in place.

Not sure why we are mentioning Kobe. If he's shooting 40-44%fg while taking shots away from Shaq, Golden State are happy. The Warriors' biggest fear is the Shaq matchup. Klay could play Kobe straight up and they'd be alright. He's long and is a good defender. As was Prince.

[DMAVS41]

So you're telling me prime Shaq's defensive shortcomings in the P&R are going to have a bigger impact than his presence on the other end?

This is the playoffs, this isn't regular season ball. Warriors aren't going to be "fine" with Shaq scoring a lot of 2's every time down the floor. Then the game starts opening up for Kobe and the rest of the team.

Warriors probably get hot from 3 and take a couple games, but you really think that collection of players is going to respond well when their backs are up against the wall against prime Shaq & Kobe?

I'm telling you that it isn't going to be any easy series like you claim.

One reason would be how the Warriors would target Shaq on offense, another would be the shooting of Klay/Curry/KD, another would be that Kobe would have to work his ass off on defense, and another would be that the Warriors could throw Iggy/Klay/Durant at Kobe.

Of course Shaq would be a huge problem. I never said otherwise, but ultimately the Warriors aren't losing sleep over 2's.

But I'm also not going to ignore the other issues...and conclude that the Lakers just win easily...which they wouldn't.

And, lets be honest, Kobe is not scoring efficiently against the Warriors defense...and that is what it would take to win.

[1987_Lakers]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Hou last year wasn

[1987_Lakers]

Why'd you stop?

2019:
Warriors 4-2 Lou Williams

Crazy how the historically great, juggernaut Rockets only managed to win one more game than Lou Williams.

BTW, the Bucks had an 8+ SRS this year and 60 wins. Can you believe Kawhi defeated that historically great team in 6 without HCA, then proceeded to beat the Warriors team that you keep sucking off in this thread?

Thank you for this arbitrary indicator of historical greatness. This solidifies my argument that Kawhi's '19 run > Bron's '12 and '13 runs. :applause:

You do realize that the 2018 Rockets had a 8.21 SRS and won 65 games right? Nice job contradicting yourself. :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

I agree with this post, that Rockets team was really the only team that gave the KD Warriors trouble. They won 65 games last year and this year's Houston team finished with a 115.5 Offensive Rating, which is top 5 in NBA History. I said it during the postseason that this Rockets team will go down as one of the more underrated teams in history.
No they wont. All those stats are irrelevant. They were led by proven playoff choker. Where's the stat for that? That rockets team dosnt won a title in any previous years. What year do they win a title in? They don't beat any of brons teams. They don't beat any of the spurs teams they don't beat the warriors they don't beat Kobe or Shaqs lakers they don't beat 08 celtics. I could go on and on. 2011 Mavs is your only possible argument and I don't think they beat them either

[1987_Lakers]

No they wont. All those stats are irrelevant. They were led by proven playoff choker. Where's the stat for that? That rockets team dosnt won a title in any previous years. What year do they win a title in? They don't beat any of brons teams. They don't beat any of the spurs teams they don't beat the warriors they don't beat Kobe or Shaqs lakers they don't beat 08 celtics. I could go on and on. 2011 Mavs is your only possible argument and I don't think they beat them either

I hate James Harden as much as the next guy, but you can't argue with the facts right in front of you. 65 wins, one of the greatest offenses ever, took the Warriors to 7 games last year, gave them some trouble this year.

They will go down as one of the best teams to never make the Finals, along with the 2002 Kings.

[Bronbron23]

I hate James Harden as much as the next guy, but you can't argue with the facts right in front of you. 65 wins, one of the greatest offenses ever, took the Warriors to 7 games last year, gave them some trouble this year.

They will go down as one of the best teams to never make the Finals, along with the 2002 Kings.
I'm not saying they weren't good. They were very good. I just don't think they'll be remembered like that. I could see if harden went out balling and just got beat by the better team but he didn't. He chokes. I don't think you can be remembered that way when your leader is a choker come playoff time. If we're talking regular season than yeah sure

[Doranku]

I'm telling you that it isn't going to be any easy series like you claim.

One reason would be how the Warriors would target Shaq on offense, another would be the shooting of Klay/Curry/KD, another would be that Kobe would have to work his ass off on defense, and another would be that the Warriors could throw Iggy/Klay/Durant at Kobe.

Of course Shaq would be a huge problem. I never said otherwise, but ultimately the Warriors aren't losing sleep over 2's.

But I'm also not going to ignore the other issues...and conclude that the Lakers just win easily...which they wouldn't.

And, lets be honest, Kobe is not scoring efficiently against the Warriors defense...and that is what it would take to win.

So are we assuming this matchup takes place in '01, or '19?

lol @ the thought of Steph and KD scoring efficiently under '01 rules

[3ball]

......................... All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 1
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 15 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 2
Love 3
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
6 players, 15 appearances = 2/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals

[3ball]

MJ would have the best team if everyone was given the same help

Jordan. + 1 perennial all-star = 6 rings
Lebron. + 4 perennial all-star = 3 rings


Everyone else falls short like lebron - MJ did the most (6 chips), with the least (1 perennial all-star)

Also, only MJ was undefeated with a 1 or 2 seed (6-0), while bird, kareem, lebron lost 5+ times each with 1 or 2 seeds - so MJ was the most undefeatable player, aka goat

[bigkingsfan]

All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6

All-star appearances while playing with Pippen:

Ordan
Horace
BJ

Looks like Pip elevated his teammates

[RRR3]

......................... All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 1
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 15 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 2
Love 3
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
6 players, 15 appearances = 2/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals
You need to update your files. This is clearly from 2015.

[3ball]

You need to update your files. This is clearly from 2015.
Which one is inaccurate

And why are you guys so passive aggressive, beta - afraid to make a point

Just say "so-and-so is inaccurate"... But instead you beat around the bush because you can't refute it - it's accurate and MJ won the most with the least, by far, obviously

6 rings with 1 all-star ... No one is remotely close

[Doranku]

You do realize that the 2018 Rockets had a 8.21 SRS and won 65 games right? Nice job contradicting yourself. :oldlol:

Are you slow? I was being sarcastic.

[RRR3]

Which one is inaccurate

And why are you guys so passive aggressive, beta - afraid to make a point

Just say "so-and-so is inaccurate"... But instead you beat around the bush because you can't refute it - it's accurate and MJ won the most with the least, by far, obviously

6 rings with 1 all-star ... No one is remotely close
LeBron isn

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]LeBron isn

[StrongLurk]

As good as any dynasty you want to compare it to.

[3ball]

.
.
.
Per RR3's correction in post #47:








......................... All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 1
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 15 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 2
Love 3
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
6 players, 15 appearances = 3/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals

[DMAVS41]

So are we assuming this matchup takes place in '01, or '19?

lol @ the thought of Steph and KD scoring efficiently under '01 rules

Doesn't matter what year. They'll score more efficiently than Kobe for sure....they will still be the best shooting trio ever...and Shaq still won't be able to play pick/roll defense well enough.

Again, I'm not arguing they win easily or even win for sure...

Just retract the absurd "Lakers in 5" crap...they'd easily be the best team the Lakers ever faced...and the rules cut both ways...Iggy with 01 rules would be a true monster on defense, Draymond/Klay as well...which would really hurt the Lakers/Kobe.

:cheers:

[RRR3]

Thanks.... now how hard was that?

Reposting the updated version... :cheers:
It wasn’t hard I just wanted to laugh at you for copying and pasting from 2015.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]LeBron isn

[Elosha]

:facepalm

Jezuz, youre just adding to it after your gem of "no player could have this toronto team where it is in place of kawhi"

The 2018 Rockets are an historically great team.


They 4-1'ed Minny and Utah B2B


65-win team, 8.21 SRS. Historically great as it is, Paul missed 24 games, in which Houston went 15-9 (63%). That means a complete Houston Rockets team as was the one of the post-season went 50-8 (86%) which is a 71-win pace, and would register as 3rd greatest record in NBA history.

Over the last 3 years, besides an errant Lou Williams GOATing, the only team to win more than 1 game against KD-GSW.


The 2018 Rockets have the highest adjusted offensive rating in NBA history (!!)



Please, learn, and be more appreciative/respectful.

I don't think James Harden is capable of leading an all time great team. Way too limited and predictable in his offense, which in turn limits the greatness of his team. Step back three, rinse and repeat, drive the lane for left handed lay up or floater. No post ups, no triple threat, no hang time, not much midrange, (by preference mostly). Way too predictable in the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why'd you stop?

2019:
Warriors 4-2 Lou Williams

Crazy how the historically great, juggernaut Rockets only managed to win one more game than Lou Williams.

BTW, the Bucks had an 8+ SRS this year and 60 wins. Can you believe Kawhi defeated that historically great team in 6 without HCA, then proceeded to beat the Warriors team that you keep sucking off in this thread?

Thank you for this arbitrary indicator of historical greatness. This solidifies my argument that Kawhi's '19 run > Bron's '12 and '13 runs. :applause:

Yeah, and the Bucks were a couple plays short of NBA champion, and destroyed their 1st and 2nd round opposition.

And they will probably win a title next year. Good job proving the authenticity of the stat.

I mentioned the Clippers series, dummie. Everyone here thinks you're dumb, take a hint buddy.

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't think James Harden is capable of leading an all time great team. Way too limited and predictable in his offense, which in turn limits the greatness of his team. Step back three, rinse and repeat, drive the lane for left handed lay up or floater. No post ups, no triple threat, no hang time, not much midrange, (by preference mostly). Way too predictable in the playoffs.

hang time? What the fck are you even talking about? Lmao.

The Rockets' are the first team of its kind, their staple is three's and hockey passes, penetration via Harden and midrange via Paul.

They're as good as it gets with what they do. And Harden's first step might be the best ever, thats where their greatness comes from.

Stop gimmick posting.

[Phoenix]

Now that we've had the benefit of a few years passing and looking at this in hindsight, I don't think the 2016 Warriors were that indomitable. They ran over the league in the regular season, but the lack of a physical component in Steph's game IMO makes him( and by extension the team) vulnerable to a degree of bully ball. Much is made of their finals meltdown, and not enough of the fact that KD and Westbrook playing 'my turn, your turn' ball had them figured out until they choked the prior round.

It makes me think the 2016 team would have been vulnerable to a few teams especially in the 90s. Specifically I think they'd have been punished by a team like the 90's Knicks with their aggressive defensive guards in Starks/Harper/Anthony/Wilkins, and Ewing/Oakley/Smith/X-man/Mason defending the paint. Different story in the 10's, but in the 90s? The 96 Magic with Shaq/Penny/3D and Nick Anderson had the right combo of interior dominance, athleticism and shooting. The Bulls, especially the 91-93 version with an athletic prime MJ/Pippen/Grant doberman duo would have been great defensive matches. Even a team like 95 Houston with Hakeem's interior dominance surrounded by guys like Horry, Cassell, Mario Elie shooting on the outside would have been an interesting matchup. Again, this is transplanting the 16 Dubs into the 90's, or at the very least a neutral environment that doesn't cater to their style like 2019 rules. I'm not saying all of those teams beat them, but I do think there are interesting matchups there. Even if you simply keep them in this era..... I'm not sure they beat the Raptors this year. 2019 Toronto is REALLY good when you look down the roster beyond Kawhi. So does last year's Rockets if Paul doesn't go down. We're far enough removed from 2016 to see them in a context greater than just that year alone.

Durant joining was the Konami cheat code that really separated them from their contemporary competition and within a historical context. 2017 was the peak, but you could tell the league was starting to slowly catch up, especially this year.

[Elosha]

hang time? What the fck are you even talking about? Lmao.

The Rockets' are the first team of its kind, their staple is three's and hockey passes, penetration via Harden and midrange via Paul.

They're as good as it gets with what they do. And Harden's first step might be the best ever, thats where their greatness comes from.

Stop gimmick posting.

Sorry, I guess I was talking over your head. Let me bring it down to your level. Harden's game has huge gaps, which consistently leads to playoff losses. If he and the Rockets can't play to their limited areas of strengths (huge strengths, I'll grant you), they inevitably falter. Year after year. You can try to argue with me, but you can't argue with historical record. (FYI, Harden's first step doesn't hold a candle to Jordan or Kobe's. He's a crafty ballhandler but are you really suggesting he's got faster first step than Jordan or Kobe, at SG position? Really?? :rolleyes: )

[Manny98]

Now that we've had the benefit of a few years passing and looking at this in hindsight, I don't think the 2016 Warriors were that indomitable. They ran over the league in the regular season, but the lack of a physical component in Steph's game IMO makes him( and by extension the team) vulnerable to a degree of bully ball. Much is made of their finals meltdown, and not enough of the fact that KD and Westbrook playing 'my turn, your turn' ball had them figured out until they choked the prior round.

It makes me think the 2016 team would have been vulnerable to a few teams especially in the 90s. Specifically I think they'd have been punished by a team like the 90's Knicks with their aggressive defensive guards in Starks/Harper/Anthony/Wilkins, and Ewing/Oakley/Smith/X-man/Mason defending the paint. Different story in the 10's, but in the 90s? The 96 Magic with Shaq/Penny/3D and Nick Anderson had the right combo of interior dominance, athleticism and shooting. The Bulls, especially the 91-93 version with an athletic prime MJ/Pippen/Grant doberman duo would have been great defensive matches. Even a team like 95 Houston with Hakeem's interior dominance surrounded by guys like Horry, Cassell, Mario Elie shooting on the outside would have been an interesting matchup. Again, this is transplanting the 16 Dubs into the 90's, or at the very least a neutral environment that doesn't cater to their style like 2019 rules. I'm not saying all of those teams beat them, but I do think there are interesting matchups there. Even if you simply keep them in this era..... I'm not sure they beat the Raptors this year. 2019 Toronto is REALLY good when you look down the roster beyond Kawhi. So does last year's Rockets if Paul doesn't go down. We're far enough removed from 2016 to see them in a context greater than just that year alone.

Durant joining was the Konami cheat code that really separated them from their contemporary competition and within a historical context. 2017 was the peak, but you could tell the league was starting to slowly catch up, especially this year.
Yh and translate those bum ass no 3 point shooting 90s teams into todays league and they're getting destroyed by the Warriors

[Phoenix]

Yh and translate those bum ass no 3 point shooting 90s teams into todays league and they're getting destroyed by the Warriors

Hence why I said it's an era thing you fukking inbred c*nt. The same vacuous commentary we expect from you. Go away.

[ArbitraryWater]

Sorry, I guess I was talking over your head. Let me bring it down to your level. Harden's game has huge gaps, which consistently leads to playoff losses. If he and the Rockets can't play to their limited areas of strengths (huge strengths, I'll grant you), they inevitably falter. Year after year. You can try to argue with me, but you can't argue with historical record. (FYI, Harden's first step doesn't hold a candle to Jordan or Kobe's. He's a crafty ballhandler but are you really suggesting he's got faster first step than Jordan or Kobe, at SG position? Really?? :rolleyes: )

Every single team leads to a playoff loss but one, idiot. And for 3 years, the only loss its led to are SAS/GSW/GSW in 6/7/6 games, the first w/o any quantifiable star help.

You're not talking over anyone's head but yours.

[Elosha]

Every single team leads to a playoff loss but one, idiot. And for 3 years, the only loss its led to are SAS/GSW/GSW in 6/7/6 games, the first w/o any quantifiable star help.

You're not talking over anyone's head but yours.

People who live in glass houses... :facepalm Anyone who thinks Harden has the fastest first step of all time, :hammerhead: has forfeited all credibility. The fact that you are calling the Rockets an all time great team when they've won jacksh*t with Harden and Paul further diminishes your standing. You can keep throwing out insults if you want, but you can't take back your own stupid statements, much less change history.

[SamuraiSWISH]

90s Bulls
60s Celtics
80s Lakers
10s Warriors / 80s Celtics
00s Lakers

[ArbitraryWater]

People who live in glass houses... :facepalm Anyone who thinks Harden has the fastest first step of all time, :hammerhead: has forfeited all credibility. The fact that you are calling the Rockets an all time great team when they've won jacksh*t with Harden and Paul further diminishes your standing. You can keep throwing out insults if you want, but you can't take back your own stupid statements, much less change history.

Only one team can win, why would Houston not winning with GSW around denounce them from ATG when that would pertain to just about every team ever with 17-18 GSW around?

Moron.

[DMAVS41]

People who live in glass houses... :facepalm Anyone who thinks Harden has the fastest first step of all time, :hammerhead: has forfeited all credibility. The fact that you are calling the Rockets an all time great team when they've won jacksh*t with Harden and Paul further diminishes your standing. You can keep throwing out insults if you want, but you can't take back your own stupid statements, much less change history.

One could argue against the Rockets not being a championship level team...and that is fine.

However, what one can't do (or at least shouldn't do) is argue that on the grounds that they didn't beat the Warriors.

Again, many to most NBA championship teams in history are losing to the Warriors team...and are losing in less than 7 as well.

So, it is just a bad argument. Were the 09/10 Lakers not championship level teams? Of course they were, but they would also be drawing dead against the Warriors.

[3ball]

Elosha and Phoenix are taking dumps on people itt.. Not rudely - just like, "no, this is actually how it is"

[Elosha]

Only one team can win, why would Houston not winning with GSW around denounce them from ATG when that would pertain to just about every team ever with 17-18 GSW around?

Moron.

I think I'm kind of done with you. Polite disagreement is fine, but you started with ad hominem attacks, and name calling. And I joined in to a degree, which I generally try to avoid or at least dial down.

I understand your point about how good GS is/was. I agree they are an ATG team, although I wouldn't put them at the very top. But my original point was about Houston not really having ideal system to beat them and Harden's limitations (and he undeniably has them, great as he is) contributing somewhat to that scenario.

It's like this. No one would claim that Houston would be better or more likely to beat GS without Harden. But if you have a more well rounded superstar, who emphasizes both ends of the floor and can take over games more readily and in a larger variety of ways, like a Kawhi Leonard or Durant, you'll have a better chance.

I'm not trying to say Harden isn't a Hall of Famer, top 25 probably, etc. etc. Nor am I saying Houston sucks or isn't a very good team. But keep in mind Houston with Harden has lost to the Spurs and GS and (others?) Can't remember... It's hard to say the team is an ATG one, when it constantly loses to other ATG teams or otherwise. Don't you have to break through at some time to climb into the highest echelons? That seems like common sense.

[GimmeThat]

the higher you rank them, the worse the 2015 ring looks

[Elosha]

One could argue against the Rockets not being a championship level team...and that is fine.

However, what one can't do (or at least shouldn't do) is argue that on the grounds that they didn't beat the Warriors.

Again, many to most NBA championship teams in history are losing to the Warriors team...and are losing in less than 7 as well.

So, it is just a bad argument. Were the 09/10 Lakers not championship level teams? Of course they were, but they would also be drawing dead against the Warriors.

Thanks for your comments and the polite way in which you expressed them. I'm not really arguing just that Houston failed to beat the Warriors as the grounds for not seeing them as a truly great team. They've also lost to other teams along the way with Harden. And "close losses" just doesn't cut it for me. Very good team, even elite team, yes. ATG team? Not for me.

It is impossible, really, to predict how the 00-02 Lakers, or the Bulls dynasty, or Miami in 2012-13 or the 80's Lakers or Celtics would have handled GS these last few years. The rules of the contest, of course, matter a lot. But in general, I think past great teams that are more well rounded and also defensive oriented likely have a slight advantage over GS. The Cavs and Rockets of past years were missing one or more of these ingredients.

You can't out-Warrior the Warriors and that's what Houston tries to do. But they trade defensive grit, ball control, and clock management for spamming the three even more than GS, which is shocking. And, a forgotten part of GS's run has been their hard-nosed defense, which doesn't get the glory, but is a key part of its success. D has never been Houston's calling card, and it got worse this year when they let Trevor Ariza go.

I don't see Houston winning under their current model, although they may luck out in getting to the Finals next year, if GS injuries and/or Durant & Klay's free agency opens the door for them.

[TheMan]

I believe they are the only team to win 67+ games in 3 consecutive seasons.

As far as talent goes, we never saw a team that matches the Warriors, they didn't have the longevity of the 80's Lakers or 90's Bulls, but at their best they probably beat both teams in a 7 game series. I'd take the 2017 Warriors over any team in history for that matter. 3 titles in 5 years with 5 finals appearances isn't bad at all, they won the same amount of titles as Bird's Celtics in a lesser amount of time.

Thoughts?
I'll take the Showtime Lakers, MJ Bulls, Kobe/Shaq Lakers and 86 Celtics over any version of the Warriors TBH, hell I'd take the Bad Boys Pistons over them too if they play under the real NBA rules instead of today's pusssy ass rules.

And before any of you neckbeard incels who know little if anything about NBA basketball outside of this decade, lemme explain...

Showtime Lakers would run roughshod over the Warriors, no team in history ran the fastbreak like the Magic Lakers did. Who's gonna stop KAJ? Worthy would post DRay and put fouls on that undisciplined fool...and Magic is easily the best player on floor in this series.

86 Celtics with that GOAT frontcourt would murder GS on the glass, go ahead and shoot your low IQ threes, you better make them at an insane clip in 4 games out of seven because you ain't gonna grab second chances vs Parish, McHale, Bird and Walton. Peak Bird is also easily the best player in this series.

The 90s Bulls would curbstomp Golden State, you got Harper on Curry, MJ on Klay, Pippen on KD and Rodman on Green...yeah I like my matchups. Green isn't gonna grab rebounds over the Worm, Harper is long and physical, Curry doesn't perform quite well when you have physical guards on him, we've seen many instances of this. MJ on Klay, LMAO...next, and KD would be the toughest matchup but Pip is one of the GOAT perimeter defenders the league has ever seen so yeah I like that matchup too. Who's stopping MJ is the biggest question here, the GOAT gonna feast. MJ is easily the best player in this series.

I got Shaq/Kobe Lakers over these Warriors too, no one is stopping Shaq on the inside, maybe the most dominating force I've ever seen at his peak (outside of early 90s MJ. I'd put Kobe on Curry to disrupt the Warriors offense...Shaq is the best player in this series, Kobe has a case for second best player.

The Bad Boys Pistons would physically get up on the Warriors... today's rules, the Warriors have the edge but under 80s/90s rules? Yeah forget it :oldlol:

Having said that, the Warriors are because of talent, right up there but I just don't think they're the GOAT team, sorry. We're being prisoners of the moment calling them the GOAT team. I remember just a few years ago people were calling the 2014 Spurs with their beautiful ball movement the GOAT team. Yeah that was an impressive team but no one is saying that today... especially considering that their core players were already past their prime, except for Kawhi of course...

Let's let time put the Warriors in their rightful place, they've been the best in the game but the game has changed a ton and we need to consider these variables. You will never convince me that if time travel existed and you put these Warriors in the 80s and 90s that they'd have the same amount of success, no way.

[TheMan]

Pretty spot on

Bulls are out by default because they can't shoot and the league requires more skill nowadays
Yeah, no :oldlol:

More skill? That's a debate to be had but lower IQ today? Easily...

Who you gonna put on MJ without double teaming him? Yeah I thought so :roll:

Defense wins titles, the Bulls have four defensive wizards, Harper, MJ, Pippen and Rodman. Golden State has just two, Green and Klay...no contest, bruh.

[StrongLurk]

Lot of haters in this thread who clearly have rose-tinted glasses on about the past. All these haters arguments are "look at the strengths of the teams I like" and completely ignoring their weaknesses and mismatches...if you hate how the nba is so much this past decade then why are you even commenting on message boards trying to act objective.

The 15-19 Warriors dynasty is as good as any other dynasty around.

17 Warriors would beat any team.

[3ball]

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD

But the bias of media/fans and their ability to ignore the obvious is at an all-time high, so they ignore this obvious truth (dubs ain't championship-caliber)

[StrongLurk]

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD

The bias of media/fans and their ability to ignore the obvious is revealing look into human nature

You should read this statement a 100 times in a row to yourself:roll:

When YOU talk about MJ, his teammates suck and MJ carried greatest burden ever..but when we are comparing bulls teams to other teams, all of a sudden MJ was surrounded by HOF, perennial all stars who are unstoppable two-way players and would curbstomp any other dynasty...

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[SouBeachTalents]

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD

But the bias of media/fans and their ability to ignore the obvious is at an all-time high, so they ignore this obvious truth (dubs ain't championship-caliber)
Not even gonna mention their injuries this year huh :lol

[3ball]

You should read this statement a 100 times in a row to yourself:roll:
You're dodging the question that was asked

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD..

[StrongLurk]

You're dodging the question that was asked

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD..

Why was MJ 1-9 and a complete loser without a stacked hof team?

Face it, you need to troll and make excuses becayse you know KD with the Warriors would stomp any version of the bulls.

[sdot_thadon]

Aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'???

Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD

But the bias of media/fans and their ability to ignore the obvious is at an all-time high, so they ignore this obvious truth (dubs ain't championship-caliber)
how can one be hypocritical like 10 different ways in one post?

[3ball]

Not even gonna mention their injuries this year huh :lol
What injuries?

Curry/Klay can't win without KD??... Is that what ur complaining about??

Klay missed 1 quarter of game 6, but that was offset by Durant's 1 quarter boost in Game 5... So Klay only missed 1 game just like Dray in 16'.. ur just making excuses

Klay and Loonstiff missing 1 game each doesn't compare to kyrie/love missing essentially the entire series.. but keep being biased and acting like it's the same

So again, aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'??.. Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD..

[StrongLurk]

What injuries?

Curry/Klay can't win without KD??... Is that what ur complaining about??

Klay missed 1 quarter of game 6, but that was offset by Durant's 1 quarter boost in Game 5... So Klay only missed 1 game just like Dray in 16'.. ur just making excuses

Klay and Loonstiff missing 1 game each doesn't compare to kyrie/love missing essentially the entire series.. but keep being biased and acting like it's the same

So again, aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'??.. Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD..

KD missed whole series besides 12 minutes, Cousins was never close to 100% and only played 18mpg, and Klay tore a hamstring and ACL.

Face it, you need to troll the Warriors because they would curbstomp any version of the Bulls with a healthy team. You have to take away half the team in your "if, hypothetical" situations to even give the Bulls a chance.

We know the bulls won in a weak 90's era that couldn't compete with the 80's.

[sdot_thadon]

What injuries?

Curry/Klay can't win without KD??... Is that what ur complaining about??

Klay missed 1 quarter of game 6, but that was offset by Durant's 1 quarter boost in Game 5... So Klay only missed 1 game just like Dray in 16'.. ur just making excuses

Klay and Loonstiff missing 1 game each doesn't compare to kyrie/love missing essentially the entire series.. but keep being biased and acting like it's the same

So again, aren't the kd-less Warriors 0-3 in the Finals, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'??.. Therefore, they aren't championship-caliber without KD..
So less use 3dumb logic for a moment and there are no injuries.

1)warriors lose 2015 finals
2)warriors win 2016 finals because by your own words and the hater narrative they only loss because of injuries to bogut, iggy, curry, and green missing a game.
3)they win 2019 because of kevin f'n durant.

So at the end of the day they are actually 1 title up from their current count?

Poor Mj on the other hand would have lost the 91 finals perhaps if worthy wasnt injured. Dropping him to a now pathetic 5 of 6 with the warriors breathing down his neck about to surpass his squad.

see how stupid this game is? And the bad thing is i can add several more of your own views that will contradict this shit even further.:no:

[3ball]

KD missed whole series besides 12 minutes, Cousins was never close to 100% and only played 18mpg


Klay only missed 1 game, while cousins actually DID play, and played well at times

But Cousins and Durant were unfair additions - it's an indictment on curry/klay/dray that they can't win without them..

Again - curry/klay/dray are 0-3 in the Finals without KD/Cousins (if not for Cavs' injuries in 2016).. Therefore, curry/klay/dray are aren't championship caliber





Face it, you need to troll the Warriors because they would curbstomp any version of the Bulls with a healthy team. You have to take away half the team in your "if, hypothetical" situations to even give the Bulls a chance.


With KD, the Warriors could be competitive with the Bulls, but still lose in less than 7

But without KD, Kawhi Leonard (mini-kobe) beat them with a game to spare, and they lost as the biggest favorites ever against a 3/9 bum

Curry/Klay/Dray are simply not championship caliber and have no rings (if not for cavs' injuries in 15')

[TheMan]

Lot of haters in this thread who clearly have rose-tinted glasses on about the past. All these haters arguments are "look at the strengths of the teams I like" and completely ignoring their weaknesses and mismatches...if you hate how the nba is so much this past decade then why are you even commenting on message boards trying to act objective.

The 15-19 Warriors dynasty is as good as any other dynasty around.

17 Warriors would beat any team.
Lots of prisoners of the moment types here in this thread...if you weren't around long enough to have watched the other great teams of the past, then why should we take your comments seriously?

Cuts both ways bro.

I never said Golden State were scrubs, they are great in their era but you can't convince me that their style of play translates well in other eras were defenses were allowed to disrupt offenses without calling ticky tack fouls. Jalen Rose talks about this all the time, I'll take his opinion over any anonymous incel on the internet.

And LMAO at Arbitrary Retard thinking Harden's first step is anywhere near as fast/quick as peak Jordan, Bryant or Wade :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

I think I'm kind of done with you. Polite disagreement is fine, but you started with ad hominem attacks, and name calling. And I joined in to a degree, which I generally try to avoid or at least dial down.

I understand your point about how good GS is/was. I agree they are an ATG team, although I wouldn't put them at the very top. But my original point was about Houston not really having ideal system to beat them and Harden's limitations (and he undeniably has them, great as he is) contributing somewhat to that scenario.

It's like this. No one would claim that Houston would be better or more likely to beat GS without Harden. But if you have a more well rounded superstar, who emphasizes both ends of the floor and can take over games more readily and in a larger variety of ways, like a Kawhi Leonard or Durant, you'll have a better chance.

I'm not trying to say Harden isn't a Hall of Famer, top 25 probably, etc. etc. Nor am I saying Houston sucks or isn't a very good team. But keep in mind Houston with Harden has lost to the Spurs and GS and (others?) Can't remember... It's hard to say the team is an ATG one, when it constantly loses to other ATG teams or otherwise. Don't you have to break through at some time to climb into the highest echelons? That seems like common sense.

No, not others.

Since 2015 they have only lost to GS and SAS one year (2017), and in that 1 year it was Harden & role players, 6th man types were his best help (Lou, Gordon).

Consider that.

Sorry for the ad hom.

[DMAVS41]

Thanks for your comments and the polite way in which you expressed them. I'm not really arguing just that Houston failed to beat the Warriors as the grounds for not seeing them as a truly great team. They've also lost to other teams along the way with Harden. And "close losses" just doesn't cut it for me. Very good team, even elite team, yes. ATG team? Not for me.

It is impossible, really, to predict how the 00-02 Lakers, or the Bulls dynasty, or Miami in 2012-13 or the 80's Lakers or Celtics would have handled GS these last few years. The rules of the contest, of course, matter a lot. But in general, I think past great teams that are more well rounded and also defensive oriented likely have a slight advantage over GS. The Cavs and Rockets of past years were missing one or more of these ingredients.

You can't out-Warrior the Warriors and that's what Houston tries to do. But they trade defensive grit, ball control, and clock management for spamming the three even more than GS, which is shocking. And, a forgotten part of GS's run has been their hard-nosed defense, which doesn't get the glory, but is a key part of its success. D has never been Houston's calling card, and it got worse this year when they let Trevor Ariza go.

I don't see Houston winning under their current model, although they may luck out in getting to the Finals next year, if GS injuries and/or Durant & Klay's free agency opens the door for them.

For clarification, I'm only talking about the 18 Rockets.

I would have to know about your definition of ATG team, but I think the 18 Rockets were clearly a championship level team based on what I know about NBA history.

Does that mean they win for sure in other years? Of course not, there is something beyond metrics to determine team strength...things beyond talent...etc.

Perhaps you are right that the Rockets would always find a way to lose. I disagree, but obviously we just don't know.

My issue here, and it might not be with you, is that a lot of people are simply ignoring just how much of a monster a healthy Warriors team was.

So, to me, it is a non-point when it comes to the Raptors title or the Rockets losing to them...because most teams in history, even championship teams, lose to the Warriors.

Do I think if you put the 18 Rockets in place of the 07 Spurs do they win the title? Of course, but again, I don't know for sure.

That is where I'm coming from.

[bigkingsfan]

Lots of prisoners of the moment types here in this thread...if you weren't around long enough to have watched the other great teams of the past, then why should we take your comments seriously?

Cuts both ways bro.

I never said Golden State were scrubs, they are great in their era but you can't convince me that their style of play translates well in other eras were defenses were allowed to disrupt offenses without calling ticky tack fouls. Jalen Rose talks about this all the time, I'll take his opinion over any anonymous incel on the internet.

And LMAO at Arbitrary Retard thinking Harden's first step is anywhere near as fast/quick as peak Jordan, Bryant or Wade :oldlol:
Already caught you slipping pretending to be "lifetime" Ordan fan.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13729516&postcount=26

[DMAVS41]

Lots of prisoners of the moment types here in this thread...if you weren't around long enough to have watched the other great teams of the past, then why should we take your comments seriously?

Cuts both ways bro.

I never said Golden State were scrubs, they are great in their era but you can't convince me that their style of play translates well in other eras were defenses were allowed to disrupt offenses without calling ticky tack fouls. Jalen Rose talks about this all the time, I'll take his opinion over any anonymous incel on the internet.

And LMAO at Arbitrary Retard thinking Harden's first step is anywhere near as fast/quick as peak Jordan, Bryant or Wade :oldlol:

But this cuts both ways...the Warriors defense would be vastly improved by those rules as well.

Iggy/Klay/Draymond on defense without touch fouls? They would be a monster. That can't just be ignored. Iggy and Draymond are both all time great defensive players. Iggy especially with more physical rules would be one of the best wing defenders in NBA history.

[StrongLurk]

But this cuts both ways...the Warriors defense would be vastly improved by those rules as well.

Iggy/Klay/Draymond on defense without touch fouls? They would be a monster. That can't just be ignored. Iggy and Draymond are both all time great defensive players. Iggy especially with more physical rules would be one of the best wing defenders in NBA history.

Bro, you won't get through. You are an objective poster trying to discuss basketball with people who HATE the current NBA.

I already mentioned that they are ONLY looking at the strengths of past teams and the weakness of current teams.

[StrongLurk]

Klay only missed 1 game, while cousins actually DID play, and played well at times

But Cousins and Durant were unfair additions - it's an indictment on curry/klay/dray that they can't win without them..

Again - curry/klay/dray are 0-3 in the Finals without KD/Cousins (if not for Cavs' injuries in 2016).. Therefore, curry/klay/dray are aren't championship caliber



With KD, the Warriors could be competitive with the Bulls, but still lose in less than 7

But without KD, Kawhi Leonard (mini-kobe) beat them with a game to spare, and they lost as the biggest favorites ever against a 3/9 bum

Curry/Klay/Dray are simply not championship caliber and have no rings (if not for cavs' injuries in 15')

More trolling...:sleeping

[3ball]

More trolling...:sleeping
you just can't respond because it's facts.. :sleeping.

it's an indictment on the big 3 of curry/klay/dray that they can't win a ring on their own..

Again - curry/klay/dray are 0-3 in the Finals without KD (if not for Cavs' injuries in 2015).. Therefore, curry/klay/dray are aren't championship caliber

[Doranku]

Yeah, and the Bucks were a couple plays short of NBA champion, and destroyed their 1st and 2nd round opposition.

And they will probably win a title next year. Good job proving the authenticity of the stat.

I mentioned the Clippers series, dummie. Everyone here thinks you're dumb, take a hint buddy.

The 76ers gave the Raptors a better series than the Bucks. I have no idea how losing in 6 in the ECF and your hollow "dey gonna win next year tho" statement proves the authenticity of anything except for the fact that you're a moron.

And LOL @ the bold, surely even you must see the irony in such a statement. People literally call you AutisticWaters. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

More trolling...:sleeping

stop replying to him :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

The 76ers gave the Raptors a better series than the Bucks. I have no idea how losing in 6 in the ECF and your hollow "dey gonna win next year tho" statement proves the authenticity of anything except for the fact that you're a moron.

And LOL @ the bold, surely even you must see the irony in such a statement. People literally call you AutisticWaters. :oldlol:

havent heard autistic waters in probably a year, good re-collection of something useless taking up your brain space

[Doranku]

The '17 Warriors are so overrated lmao "tHeY wOuLD bEaT aNy tEaM".. except they probably lose to the '17 Spurs if Kawhi stays healthy.

They faced abhorrent competition. Trash Bros West, a Jazz team who's 3rd best player in the series was Shelvin Mack, the Kawhi-less Spurs, and the 21st ranked defense in the finals. :oldlol:

Of course they're going to look dominant against THAT.

[NBAGOAT]

Harden and Paul have done absolutely nothing historically great in the playoffs. Ever.



Those Lakers teams had the perimeter defenders to bother GS' shooters. Durant would be an issue, but to nowhere near the extent that Shaq would be on the other end.

Shaq would utterly destroy their small ball lineups. Those GS teams have nobody to even throw at Shaq. Bogut? Looney? Draymond? Please. Lakers in 5.

The 00 pacers had no one either and took the lakers to 6(it was old smits, old Perkins and Davis). Shaq scores almost 40 and was frequently doubled. Their jump shooting from Miller, rose and role players killed the lakers including exploiting shaqs quickness. This sounds kind of stupid but in 01, people thought bucks would give lakers a series for same reason with Allen, Robinson, cassell. Regular season means very little but bucks did go 2-0. Their front line was even worse than the warriors.

Obviously warriors are better shooters and ball handlers than those teams. They

[StrongLurk]

The '17 Warriors are so overrated lmao "tHeY wOuLD bEaT aNy tEaM".. except they probably lose to the '17 Spurs if Kawhi stays healthy.

They faced abhorrent competition. Trash Bros West, a Jazz team who's 3rd best player in the series was Shelvin Mack, the Kawhi-less Spurs, and the 21st ranked defense in the finals. :oldlol:

Of course they're going to look dominant against THAT.

:roll:

[StrongLurk]

you just can't respond because it's facts.. :sleeping.

it's an indictment on the big 3 of curry/klay/dray that they can't win a ring on their own..

Again - curry/klay/dray are 0-3 in the Finals without KD (if not for Cavs' injuries in 2015).. Therefore, curry/klay/dray are aren't championship caliber

Sorry bro, MJ loses every time against these Warriors.

Keep trolling.

[3ball]

Sorry bro, MJ loses every time against these Warriors.

Keep trolling.
Yeah, nobody thinks that

Keep re-trolling

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]The 00 pacers had no one either and took the lakers to 6(it was old smits, old Perkins and Davis). Shaq scores almost 40 and was frequently doubled. Their jump shooting from Miller, rose and role players killed the lakers including exploiting shaqs quickness. This sounds kind of stupid but in 01, people thought bucks would give lakers a series for same reason with Allen, Robinson, cassell. Regular season means very little but bucks did go 2-0. Their front line was even worse than the warriors.

Obviously warriors are better shooters and ball handlers than those teams. They

[dazzer87]

hang time? What the fck are you even talking about? Lmao.

The Rockets' are the first team of its kind, their staple is three's and hockey passes, penetration via Harden and midrange via Paul.

They're as good as it gets with what they do. And Harden's first step might be the best ever, thats where their greatness comes from.

Stop gimmick posting.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

I'll take the Showtime Lakers, MJ Bulls, Kobe/Shaq Lakers and 86 Celtics over any version of the Warriors TBH, hell I'd take the Bad Boys Pistons over them too if they play under the real NBA rules instead of today's pusssy ass rules.

And before any of you neckbeard incels who know little if anything about NBA basketball outside of this decade, lemme explain...

Showtime Lakers would run roughshod over the Warriors, no team in history ran the fastbreak like the Magic Lakers did. Who's gonna stop KAJ? Worthy would post DRay and put fouls on that undisciplined fool...and Magic is easily the best player on floor in this series.

86 Celtics with that GOAT frontcourt would murder GS on the glass, go ahead and shoot your low IQ threes, you better make them at an insane clip in 4 games out of seven because you ain't gonna grab second chances vs Parish, McHale, Bird and Walton. Peak Bird is also easily the best player in this series.

The 90s Bulls would curbstomp Golden State, you got Harper on Curry, MJ on Klay, Pippen on KD and Rodman on Green...yeah I like my matchups. Green isn't gonna grab rebounds over the Worm, Harper is long and physical, Curry doesn't perform quite well when you have physical guards on him, we've seen many instances of this. MJ on Klay, LMAO...next, and KD would be the toughest matchup but Pip is one of the GOAT perimeter defenders the league has ever seen so yeah I like that matchup too. Who's stopping MJ is the biggest question here, the GOAT gonna feast. MJ is easily the best player in this series.

I got Shaq/Kobe Lakers over these Warriors too, no one is stopping Shaq on the inside, maybe the most dominating force I've ever seen at his peak (outside of early 90s MJ. I'd put Kobe on Curry to disrupt the Warriors offense...Shaq is the best player in this series, Kobe has a case for second best player.

The Bad Boys Pistons would physically get up on the Warriors... today's rules, the Warriors have the edge but under 80s/90s rules? Yeah forget it :oldlol:


My God, can someone please insert the old man yells at cloud gif.

Sorry, but your analysis on why the Warriors would lose to those teams are pretty basic. "Who's gonna stop Kareem" Who is gonna stop MJ" "No one is stopping Shaq".

No shit, these are all time great players, of course no one is stopping them, although Kareem was nowhere near his peak when the Showtime Lakers peaked as a team. I can easily clap back with "Who is gonna stop Steph and KD?" See how easy that is.

If you compare the 2017 Warriors with say the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '89 Pistons, '96 Bulls, & '01 Lakers.... not one of those teams can match with the Warriors in terms of firepower and talent, only the '86 Celtics give the Warriors a run in terms of talent, but Curry is a much better 2nd option than McHale, and Draymond shits on DJ as a #4 option. And what puts the icing on the cake is that the Warriors are also an elite defensive team.

[1987_Lakers]

The '17 Warriors are so overrated lmao "tHeY wOuLD bEaT aNy tEaM".. except they probably lose to the '17 Spurs if Kawhi stays healthy.

They faced abhorrent competition. Trash Bros West, a Jazz team who's 3rd best player in the series was Shelvin Mack, the Kawhi-less Spurs, and the 21st ranked defense in the finals. :oldlol:

Of course they're going to look dominant against THAT.

Again, contradicting yourself. Do you even think before you type? Look who the 2001 Lakers faced in the playoffs. The Spurs in the conference finals who were missing their 2nd leading scorer, the trash Sixers in the Finals?? The 2017 Cavs are better than any team the Lakers faced that year.

[3ball]

My God, can someone please insert the old man yells at cloud gif.

Sorry, but your analysis on why the Warriors would lose to those teams are pretty basic. "Who's gonna stop Kareem" Who is gonna stop MJ" "No one is stopping Shaq".

No shit, these are all time great players, of course no one is stopping them, although Kareem was nowhere near his peak when the Showtime Lakers peaked as a team. I can easily clap back with "Who is gonna stop Steph and KD?" See how easy that is.

If you compare the 2017 Warriors with say the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '89 Pistons, '96 Bulls, & '01 Lakers.... not one of those teams can match with the Warriors in terms of firepower and talent, only the '86 Celtics give the Warriors a run in terms of talent, but Curry is a much better 2nd option than McHale, and Klay shits on DJ as a #4 option. And what puts the icing on the cake is that the Warriors are also an elite defensive team.
Uh, no

McHale averaged 26/11 and 2.0 blocks in the 85' Finals, and 26/9 and 2.5 blocks in 86' Finals, and 20/9 in 87' Finals.. he shot 57-59% in all three Finals

And former fmvp DJ destroys Klay brah, ur crazy

[Doranku]

Again, contradicting yourself. Do you even think before you type? Look who the 2001 Lakers faced in the playoffs. The Spurs in the conference finals who were missing their 2nd leading scorer, the trash Sixers in the Finals?? The 2017 Cavs are better than any team the Lakers faced that year.


Are you trolling? You HAVE to be trolling. :oldlol:

The 50 win Stoudamire/Pippen/Sheed/Sabonis Blazers, the 55 win Webber/Peja/Divac Kings, and 58 win Duncan/Robinson Spurs are all LIGHTYEARS better than ALL three teams the Warriors faced in the Western Conference.

The Cavs were the only good team they played and they were a bottom 10 team defensively. The 76ers were at least a top 5 defensive team. And obviously peak Iverson is better than any player not named LeBron that the Warriors faced in 2017.

You clearly didn't watch basketball in the early 2000s if you think the Lakers '01 competition was weak. :oldlol: 4 50+ win teams in one run. Hell, the Cavs only won 1 more game in the regular season than the Lakers' first round opponent. Lmao.

That 2017 Cavs team was not the 2016 Cavs team, sorry.

[StrongLurk]

My God, can someone please insert the old man yells at cloud gif.

Sorry, but your analysis on why the Warriors would lose to those teams are pretty basic. "Who's gonna stop Kareem" Who is gonna stop MJ" "No one is stopping Shaq".

No shit, these are all time great players, of course no one is stopping them, although Kareem was nowhere near his peak when the Showtime Lakers peaked as a team. I can easily clap back with "Who is gonna stop Steph and KD?" See how easy that is.

If you compare the 2017 Warriors with say the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '89 Pistons, '96 Bulls, & '01 Lakers.... not one of those teams can match with the Warriors in terms of firepower and talent, only the '86 Celtics give the Warriors a run in terms of talent, but Curry is a much better 2nd option than McHale, and Draymond shits on DJ as a #4 option. And what puts the icing on the cake is that the Warriors are also an elite defensive team.

Exactly, KD is a better finals player than Bird.
Curry>McHale
Klay=DJ
Dray>Parish
Iggy>Danny Ainge

[3ball]

Exactly, KD is a better finals player than Bird.
Curry>McHale
Klay=DJ
Dray>Parish
Iggy>Danny Ainge
Iggy > Ainge

But

Bird destroys KD

McHale > Curry

DJ > Klay

Parish > Dray

[1987_Lakers]

Uh, no

McHale averaged 26/11 and 2.0 blocks in the 85' Finals, and 26/9 and 2.5 blocks in 86' Finals, and 20/9 in 87' Finals.. he shot 57-59% in all three Finals

And former fmvp DJ destroys Klay brah, ur crazy

I've seen multiple games from the Celtics in 1986, they were my GOAT team before the Warriors came along. I know the strengths and weaknesses of every single player on that team. McHale during that time was a monster, unstoppable in the low post, but you are comparing him to Curry, a guy who is a 2 time MVP, the greatest shooter ever, and the best PG the league has seen since Magic. It's not a comparison, Curry brings much more to the table than McHale.

DJ in that point of his career over Klay? Hmm, DJ was pretty limited offensively, he was never known as a shooter, but he could hit the mid-range from time to time, he couldn't beat you with his scoring, he was actually pretty inefficient in that department with the Celtics. Klay on the other hand is probably the 2nd greatest shooter ever, when he gets hot when can drop 30 on you on any given night and his defense is also top notch along with DJ.

[1987_Lakers]

Iggy > Ainge

But

Bird destroys KD

McHale > Curry

DJ > Klay

Parish > Dray

Parish over Dray is questionable, Dray brings much more to the table with his defense, ball-handling, and passing, we are talking about a guy who won DPOY in 2017. Parish, although a solid defender was never in the elite tier, he did everything well, but not at an elite level. the Celtics were actually a better defensive team with Walton on the floor instead of Parish.

[1987_Lakers]

Are you trolling? You HAVE to be trolling. :oldlol:

The 50 win Stoudamire/Pippen/Sheed/Sabonis Blazers, the 55 win Webber/Peja/Divac Kings, and 58 win Duncan/Robinson Spurs are all LIGHTYEARS better than ALL three teams the Warriors faced in the Western Conference.

The Cavs were the only good team they played and they were a bottom 10 team defensively. The 76ers were at least a top 5 defensive team. And obviously peak Iverson is better than any player not named LeBron that the Warriors faced in 2017.

You clearly didn't watch basketball in the early 2000s if you think the Lakers '01 competition was weak. :oldlol: 4 50+ win teams in one run. Hell, the Cavs only won 1 more game in the regular season than the Lakers' first round opponent. Lmao.

That 2017 Cavs team was not the 2016 Cavs team, sorry.

Please, their competition got weaker as the playoffs went on. The Warriors WITHOUT KD beat the 2016 Thunder with KD-Westbrook, they took the Cavs with LeBron/Kyrie/Love to 7 games with Draymond missing a game. These are all better teams than the Lakers faced in 2001, and we are talking about the Warriors WITHOUT KD, a top 3 SF of all time. :oldlol:

Im sorry, im not taking Shaq-Kobe and a bunch of role players over Durant-Curry-Klay-Draymond.

[StrongLurk]

Iggy > Ainge

But

Bird destroys KD

McHale > Curry

DJ > Klay

Parish > Dray

You know that's not true.

KD's play in the finals is better than Bird without a doubt.
Curry 17/18/19 was > McHale 85/86/87, this is undeniable.

DJ and Klay are equal for me.

Dray is clearly > Parish.

[3ball]

You know that's not true.

KD's play in the finals is better than Bird without a doubt.
Curry 17/18/19 was > McHale 85/86/87, this is undeniable.

DJ and Klay are equal for me.

Dray is clearly > Parish.
We just disagree - I think McHale was better in the 85-87 Finals than Curry's 17-19'

Here's why:

Defense

And Mchale shot amazing and up to his 59% standard, while Curry underperformed his shooting standard in 19' .. curry shot 34% on threes in the 19' Finals - waaaay below his standard..

Btw, we know curry is a gimmick and not real basketball because curry is the only guy that can't win a Finals shooting 34% from three... But Kawhi just did... Because he can score in other ways if the defense keys in on his shot or runs a high school box-and-1 on him

[StrongLurk]

We just disagree - I think McHale was better in the 85-87 Finals than Curry's 17-19'

Here's why:

Defense

And Mchale shot amazing and up to his 59% standard, while Curry underperformed his shooting standard in 19' .. curry shot 34% on threes in the 19' Finals - waaaay below his standard..

Btw, we know curry is a gimmick and not real basketball because curry is the only guy that can't win a Finals shooting 34% from three... But Kawhi just did... Because he can score in other ways if the defense keys in on his shot or runs a high school box-and-1 on him

You need to look at OVERALL play...Curry's offense is >>McHale while McHale's D is >Curry.

[3ball]

You need to look at OVERALL play...Curry's offense is >>McHale while McHale's D is >Curry.
I disagree that Curry has better offense

Curry is 1-dimensional and exploitable

McHale scored off jumpers and a sick rim/paint attack - that's a tougher combo to stop, which is why he shot spectacular and curry was shut down (34% on threes is getting shut down for curry)

Only curry can't win a Finals shooting 34% on threes - that's a one-dimensional player

[StrongLurk]

I disagree that Curry has better offense

Curry is 1-dimensional and exploitable

McHale scored off jumpers and a sick rim/paint attack - that's a tougher combo to stop, which is why he shot spectacular and curry was shut down (34% on threes is getting shut down for curry)

Only curry can't win a Finals shooting 34% on threes - that's a one-dimensional player

Curry shot between 56-62 TS% in the 17/18/19 finals. He was not exploited at all.

Keep trying to troll. Curry was better overall than McHale 85/86/87 AND won more.

In fact, Curry as a second option has been > Kobe as a second option.

So we can write off 80's Celtics, early 2000's Lakers.

And of course if you take KD and MJ off the teams, the Warriors teams are > those Bulls teams.

In summary, The Warriors were as good as any dynasty in the modern era.

[1987_Lakers]

I disagree that Curry has better offense

Curry is 1-dimensional and exploitable

McHale scored off jumpers and a sick rim/paint attack - that's a tougher combo to stop, which is why he shot spectacular and curry was shut down (34% on threes is getting shut down for curry)

Only curry can't win a Finals shooting 34% on threes - that's a one-dimensional player

More proof that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. As guards go, Curry is one of the best finishers around the rim in the league, his presence on the court alone allows other people to get open because the defenders are always paying attention to him. His ball handling is one of the best ever, he also miles better than McHale as a passer.

If anyone is one-dimensional on offense it's McHale, his sole purpose was to post up and score, he did it an all-time level, but by definition he was one-dimensional. He couldn't handle the ball, he didn't have the range big men do today, and he was a black hole who never looked to pass the ball.

Comparing McHale to Curry on the offensive end is an absolute joke.

Even having DJ over Klay is extremely questionable, from '84-'87, DJ only made one All-Star team, and the only All-NBA teams he made were before he joined Boston in 1980 & 1981. He was slightly past his prime by 1986. Klay Thompson on the other hand has been an All-Star every year since 2015.

[StrongLurk]

More proof that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. As guards go, Curry is one of the best finishers around the rim in the league, his presence on the court alone allows other people to get open because the defenders are always paying attention to him. His ball handling is one of the best ever, he also miles better than McHale as a passer.

If anyone is one-dimensional on offense it's McHale, his sole purpose was to post up and score, he did it an all-time level, but by definition he was one-dimensional. He couldn't handle the ball, he didn't have the range big men do today, and he was a black hole who never looked to pass the ball.

Comparing McHale to Curry on the offensive end is an absolute joke.

Even having DJ over Klay is extremely questionable, from '84-'87, DJ only made one All-Star team, and the only All-NBA teams he made were before he joined Boston in 1980 & 1981. He was slightly past his prime by 1986. Klay Thompson on the other hand has been an All-Star in every year since 2015.

He also tried to put Ainge over Iggy...which I disagree with as well. But 3ball is just a said little troll that we have to deal with unfortunately because he was banned everywhere else.

He's like the Alex Jones of ISH.

[3ball]

Curry shot between 56-62 TS% in the 17/18/19 finals. He was not exploited at all.

Keep trying to troll. Curry was better overall than McHale 85/86/87 AND won more.

In fact, Curry as a second option has been > Kobe as a second option.
56-62% is a significant decrease from the regular season of 62-68%...

This matters because the "73-win team" and "juggernaut" verbage assumes Curry is shooting 62-68%, not 56-62%

Curry's teams have been less dominant than expected in the Finals because he underperforms his normal efficiency - teams can slow down his gimmicky threes

And a better 2nd option than Kobe???... :yaohappy:.... You sure about that brah (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=olHHSKDZToE&t=0m45s).. How could anyone think curry gimmicky threes is better than that guy???.. :facepalm ... But bias, especially recency bias, courses thru ur veins.. :lol

[NBAGOAT]

He also tried to put Ainge over Iggy...which I disagree with as well. But 3ball is just a said little troll that we have to deal with unfortunately because he was banned everywhere else.

He's like the Alex Jones of ISH.

Ainge is good tbf. Not just a shooter but a secondary pg for Boston. I really wouldn

[StrongLurk]

56-62% is a significant decrease from the regular season of 62-68%...

This matters because the "73-win team" and "juggernaut" verbage assumes Curry is shooting 62-68%, not 56-62%

Curry's teams have been less dominant than expected in the Finals because he underperforms his normal efficiency - teams can slow down his gimmicky threes

And a better 2nd option than Kobe???... :yaohappy:.... You sure about that brah (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=olHHSKDZToE&t=0m45s).. How could anyone think curry gimmicky threes is better than that guy???.. :facepalm ... But bias, especially recency bias, courses thru ur veins.. :lol

Geez, if you are concerned with Curry's decrease in efficiency in the finals (even though he is still very efficient)..then you definitely don't want to bring up Bird's performances...Durant would WIPE THE FLOOR with Bird in the finals.

Bird was between 52-58% TS in the 85-87 finals...so worse than Curry. In fact, you could argue Curry himself was as good as Bird 17-19 finals. Bird was a 24/10/6 guy...Curry was 28/7/6.

Also yes, Curry in the finals as a second option was clearly > Kobe as a second option in 2000-2002...Kobe was like a 22/5/5 player in the 00-02 finals.

Sorry bud, you are on the losing side of this one.

[bigkingsfan]

56-62% is a significant decrease from the regular season of 62-68%...

And a better 2nd option than Kobe???... :yaohappy:.... You sure about that brah (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=olHHSKDZToE&t=0m45s).. How could anyone think curry gimmicky threes is better than that guy???.. :facepalm ... But bias, especially recency bias, courses thru ur veins.. :lol

Kobe playoff TS with Shaq was 52%, Reg season 56%

[Young X]

Off-topic question.

Why do people say "the dynasty is over" and then call the Spurs a dynasty when they were losing every other year. Even the Spurs at their best never dominated the league like the Warriors.

[StrongLurk]

Off-topic question.

Why do people say "the dynasty is over" and then call the Spurs a dynasty when they were losing every other year. Even the Spurs at their best never dominated the league like the Warriors.

Warriors role players are old, some will retire and/or be let go.

Cousins will leave. KD is done all year. Klay might not even be 100% next year in the playoffs.

It's Curry/Dray, then the rest is a mystery. Of course, it's not a guarantee that it's over, but at least next year looks a lot worse.

[StrongLurk]

Kobe playoff TS with Shaq was 52%, Reg season 56%

Bird was between 52-58% TS in the 85-87 finals...so worse than Curry. In fact, you could argue Curry himself was as good as Bird 17-19 finals. Bird was a 24/10/6 guy...Curry was 28/7/6.

Curry in the finals as a second option was clearly > Kobe as a second option in 2000-2002...Kobe was like a 22/5/5 player in the 00-02 finals.

3ball is just a troll.

[3ball]

Geez, if you are concerned with Curry's decrease in efficiency in the finals (even though he is still very efficient)..then you definitely don't want to bring up Bird's performances...Durant would WIPE THE FLOOR with Bird in the finals.

Bird was between 52-58% TS in the 85-87 finals...so worse than Curry.

Also yes, Curry in the finals as a second option was clearly > Kobe as a second option in 2000-2002...Kobe was like a 22/5/5 player in the 00-02 finals.

Sorry bud, you are on the losing side of this one.
You're comparing Bird as 1st option to curry as 2nd option (less defensive attention)

Nonetheless, relative to his comp, Bird's efficiency was the same as Curry's... Bird simply had worse efficiency in a direct comparison because he didn't get 80% of his threes/shots open like Curry - it's a different game today where spacing strategy allows the entire league to shoot better and score more and be more open

Also, we all know that Kobe's 00' Finals bring his stats down - but his 2001 and 2002 performance was better than anything curry ever did.. you know this, but are shamelessly comparing Kobe's first/worst Finals to veteran Curry's best

[StrongLurk]

You're comparing Bird as 1st option to curry as 2nd option (less defensive attention)

Nonetheless, relative to his comp, Bird's efficiency was the same as Curry's... Bird simply had worse efficiency in a direct comparison because he didn't get 80% of his threes/shots open like Curry - it's a different game today where spacing strategy allows the entire league to shoot better and score more and be more open

Also, we all know that Kobe's 00' Finals bring his stats down - but his 2001 and 2002 performance was better than anything curry ever did.. you know this, but are shamelessly comparing Kobe's worst Finals to Curry's best

Curry receives a ton of attention at all times on the floor. You know this. Troll.

Also, thanks for agree that Bird was not as efficiency as Curry and his play was worse than his regular season efficiency.

Also, yes Kobe's 2000 finals is included because this WHOLE THREAD is comparing dynasties...2000-2002 Lakers included.

So yes, Curry as a second option > Kobe as a second option. Kobe in the 2001 finals 25/8/6 on 50.1 TS...and allowed AI to drop 48 on his head in game 1.

Kobe 2002 finals was very good, I'll give him that because I'm not a troll. But his overall play 2000-2002 is like 21/5/5 on low 50's TS.

In conclusion, Lakers 2000-2002 and Bird's Celtics are below the Warriors dynasty.

And we know if MJ and KD were off their teams, the 17-19 Warriors beat any version of the Bulls 90's teams.

[warriorfan]

You're comparing Bird as 1st option to curry as 2nd option (less defensive attention)

Nonetheless, relative to his comp, Bird's efficiency was the same as Curry's... Bird simply had worse efficiency in a direct comparison because he didn't get 80% of his threes/shots open like Curry - it's a different game today where spacing strategy allows the entire league to shoot better and score more and be more open

Also, we all know that Kobe's 00' Finals bring his stats down - but his 2001 and 2002 performance was better than anything curry ever did.. you know this, but are shamelessly comparing Kobe's first/worst Finals to veteran Curry's best

Bird getting more defensive attention than Steph Curry? I know you like to fudge stats here and there but this is a new level of intellectual dishonesty. Legit banworthy.

[StrongLurk]

Bird getting more defensive attention than Steph Curry? I know you like to fudge stats here and there but this is a new level of intellectual dishonesty. Legit banworthy.


Curry threatened 3ball and his autism melted down hard.

He has been trolling Curry for years now.

[warriorfan]

Curry threatened 3ball and his autism melted down hard.

He has been trolling Curry for years now.

Truth. Curry is what started 3ball to go downhill. 3ball used to be a top poster years ago. He had airtight legit arguments that were straight irrefutable a lot of the time. He

[StrongLurk]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Truth. Curry is what started 3ball to go downhill. 3ball used to be a top poster years ago. He had airtight legit arguments that were straight irrefutable a lot of the time. He

[TheMan]

Sorry bro, MJ loses every time against these Warriors.

Keep trolling.
You're even dumber than I thought if you really believe that :roll:

[TheMan]

My God, can someone please insert the old man yells at cloud gif.

Sorry, but your analysis on why the Warriors would lose to those teams are pretty basic. "Who's gonna stop Kareem" Who is gonna stop MJ" "No one is stopping Shaq".

No shit, these are all time great players, of course no one is stopping them, although Kareem was nowhere near his peak when the Showtime Lakers peaked as a team. I can easily clap back with "Who is gonna stop Steph and KD?" See how easy that is.

If you compare the 2017 Warriors with say the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '89 Pistons, '96 Bulls, & '01 Lakers.... not one of those teams can match with the Warriors in terms of firepower and talent, only the '86 Celtics give the Warriors a run in terms of talent, but Curry is a much better 2nd option than McHale, and Draymond shits on DJ as a #4 option. And what puts the icing on the cake is that the Warriors are also an elite defensive team.
Nah, you're a prisoner of the moment...5 years from now you'll claim the team that wins the 2024 title as the GOAT team...IIRC, you were one of the dummies saying the 2014 Spurs were the GOAT team :roll:

How many times do you have to see Curry fail in the bigest stage, especially when the defender is allowed to get physical on him, before you realize that he hasn't delivered consistently in the Finals? How many FMVPs does he have in 5 tries?

FOH noob :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

Nah, you're a prisoner of the moment...5 years from now you'll claim the team that wins the 2024 title as the GOAT team...IIRC, you were one of the dummies saying the 2014 Spurs were the GOAT team :roll:

How many times do you have to see Curry fail in the bigest stage, especially when the defender is allowed to get physical on him, before you realize that he hasn't delivered consistently in the Finals? How many FMVPs does he have in 5 tries?

FOH noob :oldlol:

I never once called the 2014 Spurs the GOAT team, what the hell are you talking about? I dare you to show me proof of it. :oldlol:

Curry in the 2017 Finals put up 27/8/9/2 on 62 TS% as a damn 2nd option, in 2018 he put up 28/6/7 in the Finals. Did you see Pippen put up those numbers as a #2 option with the Bulls? Yet, you claim Curry always fails at the biggest stage and believe the Bulls are the better team.

I'm not being a prisoner of the moment, you are just blind to see that the Warriors are without a doubt the most talented team in history, you have two superstars who won MVPs and played together in their prime, two other All-Stars who will be Hall of famers who are also in their prime. No team in NBA history can say that. Everyone sees how loaded they were, except for you for some reason.

Hell, even Vegas said they would have favored the 2017 Warriors over the '96 Bulls in a series, are they being prisoners of the moment too??
https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19551501/vegas-bookmakers-believe-2016-17-golden-state-warriors-favored-1995-96-chicago-bulls

[Cleverness]

I rank them as the greatest team ever, or at least tied with Jordan's Bulls

Undefeated in playoff series since 2012 when they aren't injured/suspended

[ArbitraryWater]

I rank them as the greatest team ever, or at least tied with Jordan's Bulls

Undefeated in playoff series since 2012 when they aren't injured/suspended

https://media1.tenor.com/images/7dab0f787ab0b7543413b2e30aff0f5c/tenor.gif

[Cleverness]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/7dab0f787ab0b7543413b2e30aff0f5c/tenor.gif

Do the drugs make you feel good? Either way, Warriors undefeated in playoff series since 2012 when they aren't injured/suspended. 73 wins, then they acquired KD and got even better.

16-1 in playoffs (should have been 16-0 if the refs didn't take over game 4)

So yeah, GOAT team with Jordan's Bulls

[StrongLurk]

I never once called the 2014 Spurs the GOAT team, what the hell are you talking about? I dare you to show me proof of it. :oldlol:

Curry in the 2017 Finals put up 27/8/9/2 on 62 TS% as a damn 2nd option, in 2018 he put up 28/6/7 in the Finals. Did you see Pippen put up those numbers as a #2 option with the Bulls? Yet, you claim Curry always fails at the biggest stage and believe the Bulls are the better team.

I'm not being a prisoner of the moment, you are just blind to see that the Warriors are without a doubt the most talented team in history, you have two superstars who won MVPs and played together in their prime, two other All-Stars who will be Hall of famers who are also in their prime. No team in NBA history can say that. Everyone sees how loaded they were, except for you for some reason.

Hell, even Vegas said they would have favored the 2017 Warriors over the '96 Bulls in a series, are they being prisoners of the moment too??
https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19551501/vegas-bookmakers-believe-2016-17-golden-state-warriors-favored-1995-96-chicago-bulls

TheMan is a complete moron if he believes the things he is saying...I think he is just another MJ stan who can't accept any argument of MJ losing to another team.

[Round Mound]

I don't really know where to rank them but under this style of play if they have Durant they're impossible to beat. Infact, the Raptors title was with Klay injured during the last game but also Durant injured for the whole series. If Durant, Curry, Klay and Green are healthy and playing i don't see a team beating them.

[3ball]

I don't really know where to rank them but under this style of play if they have Durant they're impossible to beat. Infact, the Raptors title was with Klay injured during the last game but also Durant injured for the whole series. If Durant, Curry, Klay and Green are healthy and playing i don't see a team beating them.
Durant's 1 quarter in Game 5 offset the 1 missed quarter from Klay in Game 6, so Klay only missed 1 game, just like Dray in 2016

The Warriors with Durant would be like adding MJ to the 1990 Blazers.. so yeah, a goat dynasty

Ultimately, it's an indictment on curry/klay/dray that they're 0-3 in the Finals without KD, if not for the Cavs' injuries in 2015.. this means they aren't championship-caliber - they literally have zero rings without KD, if not for the 15' injuries

[Round Mound]

Durant's 1 quarter in Game 5 offset the 1 missed quarter from Klay in Game 6, so Klay only missed 1 game, just like Dray in 2016

The Warriors with Durant would be like adding MJ to the 1990 Blazers.. so yeah, a goat dynasty

Ultimately, it's an indictment on curry/klay/dray that they're 0-3 in the Finals without KD, if not for the Cavs' injuries in 2015.. this means they aren't championship-caliber - they literally have zero rings without KD, if not for the 15' injuries

You think so? I think they are a great team even without Durant. Infact, with Durant playing healthy i see them impossible to beat (under today's rules ofcourse).

BTW: you don't need to defend MJ we all know he was the best player of the modern era clearly but also don't underrate Pippen to pump up MJ.

[RoseCity07]

The KD Warriors were great. Other than that they were nothing special. * Title in 2015. Their first full test they lost to Lebron.

Then this year without KD the OG 3 lose again.


The Warriors never beat a evenly matched team.

[1987_Lakers]

The KD Warriors were great. Other than that they were nothing special. * Title in 2015. Their first full test they lost to Lebron.

Then this year without KD the OG 3 lose again.


The Warriors never beat a evenly matched team.

2016 Thunder?