3-peats are hard and expose flaws - which 3-peat attempt exposed more flaws?

[3ball]

I go with Lebron - 14' was a debacle

But mainstream perception-wise, it's Curry.. a lot of people think lebron was great in 14'

[StrongLurk]

OP is always :mad:

OP is also 44 years old, trolls on the internet in all of his down time, and has Wilt Chamberlain as the second best player of all time

Yikes.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You literally just made that up.

The only '3-peat flaw" is that...they're rare and difficult.

And the reason is mostly related to attrition.

[AussieSteve]

I go with Lebron - 14' was a debacle

But mainstream perception-wise, it's Curry.. a lot of people think lebron was great in 14'

LeBron was great in 2014. Comfortably the best player in the series.

Why don't you provide some of your famous analysis in Wade and Bosh's performances that series.

[bison]

Jordan did two of them.

[SpaceJam2]

OP is always :mad:

OP is also 44 years old, trolls on the internet in all of his down time, and has Wilt Chamberlain as the second best player of all time

Yikes.

[AussieSteve]

Who was the best in 3peat attempt finals...

93 grant, 14 wade or 14 bosh?

[SpaceJam2]

I love how you call the Raptor's defense "simple" as if they don't have

Lowry
Siakam
Green
Kawhi
Gasol

:lol

Jordan shit his pants with Payton (6'1 Vanvleet basically) guarding him.

Just imagine what he'd do against the Raptors? 22 on 38% ?

[SpaceJam2]

Who was the best in 3peat attempt finals...

93 grant, 14 wade or 14 bosh?

Grant had the NBA's highest ORtg all time for a 3rd option and its not even close. Let me bump the thread.

[3ball]

You literally just made that up.

The only '3-peat flaw" is that...they're rare and difficult.

And the reason is mostly related to attrition.
The bolded makes no sense.. a creative deflection

1) Attrition exposes flaws athletically by being banged up in the Finals - this is often a problem for Curry

2) the higher comp exposes flaws by seeing if the champion's brand is sustainable (does the brand continue to work despite years of opponent adjustments)


Lebron obviously got an "F" on the sustainable brand test (his brand is based on "help"/talent, not teamwork, and was blown away)

Curry gets a B+ on sustainable brand, since his brand was exposed, but not obliterated like lebron's.. lebron's brand was ENDED in miami because he left; whereas curry will always be a Warrior and his better teamwork brand isn't capable of losing by record amount (although his 3-pt brand is one-dimensional/can't win without shooting great at threes)

[bigkingsfan]

Detroit three-peated on the Bulls

[3ball]

Detroit three-peated on the Bulls
Lebron's brand and title chances are based on how much "help"/talent he has around him

So not teamwork - lebron is bad at teamwork, and only wins if he has enough talent

Otoh, MJ won 6 rings because he had great teamwork and could win based on that... Talent wasn't a major consideration - he only needed 1 all-star, and teamwork took care of the rest

[bigkingsfan]

Lebron's brand and title chances are based on how much "help"/talent he has around him

So not teamwork - lebron is bad at teamwork, and only wins if he has enough talent

Otoh, MJ won 6 rings because he had great teamwork and could win based on that... Talent wasn't a major consideration - he only needed 1 all-star, and teamwork took care of the rest
Bad teamwork will get you beaten three times in a row to the same team.

[RRR3]

LeBron has been great every year of his career after his rookie season lmao. How great is debatable but you have insane standards for a great player if you think LeBron wasn’t great any year from 05-19.

Inb4 hurr durr 3/9 hurr durr missed playoffs

[3ball]

Bad teamwork will get you beaten three times in a row to the same team.
No all-stars against 3+ all-stars gets you beat in 88' and 89'

But teamwork allowed 1 all-star to beat 3+ all-stars in 91'

And 90' was the Pip migraine

:cheers:

[bigkingsfan]

No all-stars against 3+ all-stars gets you beat in 88' and 89'

But teamwork allowed 1 all-star to beat 3+ all-stars in 91'

And 90' was the Pip migraine

:cheers:
Lebron beat three all stars with none, Love had a migraine/concussion the entire series. :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Lebron beat three all stars with none, Love had a migraine/concussion the entire series. :confusedshrug:
Lebron played with 2 perennial all-stars in 2016, while MJ played with nothing in 88 and 89'

No all-stars against 3+ all-stars gets you beat in 88' and 89'

But teamwork allowed 1 all-star to beat 3+ all-stars in 91'

And 90' was the Pip migraine

[bigkingsfan]

Lebron played with 2 perennial all-stars in 2016, while MJ played with nothing in 88 and 89'

No all-stars against 3+ all-stars gets you beat in 88' and 89'

But teamwork allowed 1 all-star to beat 3+ all-stars in 91'

And 90' was the Pip migraine
If MJ led both teams in all stats, he wins in 1990.

[3ball]

If MJ led both teams in all stats, he wins in 1990.
Nah, lebron had a 27 ppg teammate, so mj only needed the same... actually, MJ only needed an 18 ppg teammate to win in 91'

And if lebron averaged 35+ on 50% in 2007, 2011 or 2015, he would've won

If he averaged 40+ on 50% in 2014, he would've won

If he hit a Finals game-winner, he wouldn't need Ray to save him in 2013..

[bigkingsfan]

Nah, lebron had a 27 ppg teammate, so mj only needed the same... actually, MJ only needed an 18 ppg teammate to win in 91'

And if lebron averaged 35+ on 50% in 2007, 2011 or 2015, he would've won

If he averaged 40+ on 50% in 2014, he would've won

If he hit a Finals game-winner, he wouldn't need Ray to save him in 2013..
Sounds like Lebron does a better job at elevating his teammate.

Jordan average 35+ against the Pistons, they would win too.

Ray only tied a game 6, while Paxson won it all.

[AussieSteve]

Nah, lebron had a 27 ppg teammate, so mj only needed the same... actually, MJ only needed an 18 ppg teammate to win in 91'

And if lebron averaged 35+ on 50% in 2007, 2011 or 2015, he would've won

If he averaged 40+ on 50% in 2014, he would've won

If he hit a Finals game-winner, he wouldn't need Ray to save him in 2013..

In '91, Jordan needed a team mate to average more points, rebounds and steals than every single player on the opposing team, and more assists than all except magic.

[ImKobe]

Lebron Ball got exposed on a whole new level in 2014. Warriors at least have an injury excuse. Of course it's easy for a stacked defensive team like the Raptors to key in on Curry when he doesn't have any shooters around him to keep them honest.


Lebron's the Shaq of perimeter players. Poor FT shooter and a liability in crunch time, overrated on defense. Stats doe.

[Elosha]

LeBron was great in 2014. Comfortably the best player in the series.

Why don't you provide some of your famous analysis in Wade and Bosh's performances that series.

Not really. Not if you watched the series. Huge periods of complete checking out, giving up, lots of make up points after game already decided. Shot well early, disappeared for large chunks, than scored more quasi-garbage points after blow out margins, while Miami only had tiny chance of catching up. A utter sieve on defense.

Kawhi limited LeBron while it counted, and scored on him quite easily on the other end (and he was nowhere the player he is today). Leonard deserved Finals MVP, and honestly was the "best" player in the series too, overall stats be damned.

[Manny98]

Lebron Ball got exposed on a whole new level in 2014. Warriors at least have an injury excuse. Of course it's easy for a stacked defensive team like the Raptors to key in on Curry when he doesn't have any shooters around him to keep them honest.


Lebron's the Shaq of perimeter players. Poor FT shooter and a liability in crunch time, overrated on defense. Stats doe.
https://i.postimg.cc/85111tnR/473d0cc-1.jpg

Liability in crunch time yet has better clutch stats than anyone ever :biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

https://i.postimg.cc/85111tnR/473d0cc-1.jpg

Liability in crunch time yet has better clutch stats than anyone ever :biggums:
Then why was he scared to shoot it while putting up 40+ with little Stephanie Curry guarding him?

Also those numbers are inaccurate. MJ is 7 for 14 in those situations. Around a year or so ago some how it became 7 for 15.

The media changed the number and the percentage right after LeBron had a few in the 2018 playoffs. Odd.

[Manny98]

Then why was he scared to shoot it while putting up 40+ with little Stephanie Curry guarding him?


Maybe after scoring 49 points his legs were tired towards the end of the game so he'd likely miss so passing to a cutting George Hill was the better basketball play

[egokiller]

Nah, lebron had a 27 ppg teammate, so mj only needed the same... actually, MJ only needed an 18 ppg teammate to win in 91'

And if lebron averaged 35+ on 50% in 2007, 2011 or 2015, he would've won

If he averaged 40+ on 50% in 2014, he would've won

If he hit a Finals game-winner, he wouldn't need Ray to save him in 2013..

Why did LeBron need an 11 time all star to help him win 2 of his 3 rings? Why wasn't MJ allowed to play with an 11 time all star?

[3ball]

In '91, Jordan needed a team mate to average more points, rebounds and steals than every single player on the opposing team, and more assists than all except magic.
Lebron's 2nd option averaged 5 more points than everyone on the other team

Pippen averaged 1 more than worthy, had equal rebounds with Vlade and Perkins.. you have no argument

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The bolded makes no sense.. a creative deflection

What?

Players, past and present, have talked about the difficulty in...just winning back 2 back. And the commonality is "health".

The only reason Golden State didn't 3-peat...is because Durant was out.

With him? There is no "flaw" to expose from Curry. Other than playing mediocre in crunchtime, which is common knowledge, nobody sees your scenario WITH Durant.

Far as "Bron Ball" goes? Yeah. It exists. But the main reason the Spurs beat Miami was because they were flatout better. Wade and Bosh had regressed too...because...again...attrition.

[GimmeThat]

hmmm at what age in NBA do we consider their career growth spurt comes to an end.

[Koresh]

Only three teams have 3-peated. That's all that needs to be said, really.

It's difficult to do. The Warriors were the first team in over 50 years to reach more than 4 consecutive finals.

Another pointless thread. It's a rare feat for a reason.:banghead: :hammerhead:

[3ball]

What?

The only reason Golden State didn't 3-peat...is because Durant was out.


I'm not counting Durant - I agree that they 3-peat with Durant

But they never won without Durant - the kd-less warriors are essentially 0-3 in Finals without KD, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'... Therefore, they aren't championship caliber





Wade and Bosh had regressed too...because...again...attrition.


Bosh was 29 years old and still in his prime - you've simply fallen for various narratives that were created to explain the loss

And Wade averaged 20/5/5 on 55% in the 14' ECF - so he was fine, but the Heat's flow was drastically inferior to their opponent in the Finals, so everyone plays bad in that scenario.. this included lebron, who played poorly when the games were being tightly contested (only 38% of his points occurred when the games were within 15 points)





Far as "Bron Ball" goes? Yeah. It exists.

but the Spurs won because they were flatout better.


No, no, no... You aren't getting away with this contradictory, bullshit stan-speak... :no: :facepalm

you're just giving lip service about bron-ball - you don't actually think it exists because you don't think it explains why the Spurs were better (teamwork)

i.e. You just said "the Spurs were flat-out better"... But better in what way? Talent or teamwork?..

the age of each team's core (spurs were much older) and the odds (even) say there wasn't a material talent gap - and the assists stats and eye test confirm that the Spurs' ball movement ran the Heat off the floor.. So bron-ball (inferior teamwork) is why they lost, but you simply won't accept what the eye test confirmed because you're biased for lebron... :confusedshrug:

It's a sad state of affairs when we can't call out what's staring us in the face - bron-ball is a cancer for teamwork, and needs extra talent to win (still mostly loses on the championship level).. Can you imagine the raptors with lebron running lebron-ball??? It would be a travesty of team underperformance - it's cringeworthy to think that lebron would reduce the championship raptors to record blowout in the Finals





summary


So ultimately, attrition is a big factor that impacts the less athletic more (curry/klay), while sustainable brand is also a factor (bron-ball figured out; curry's one-dimensional 3-pointers shut down)..

otoh, MJ's elite athleticism protected him from attrition, while his non-ball-dominant, no-weakness scoring ability was the foundation of unstoppable, infinitely diverse teamwork

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm not counting Durant - I agree that they 3-peat with Durant

But they never won without Durant - the kd-less warriors are essentially 0-3 in Finals without KD, if not for cavs' injuries in 15'... Therefore, they aren't championship caliber

Why not? Without Durant the Warriors haven't gone b2b. Forget 3-peating.

By your logic, you negated your own thread title.

Also gotta laugh @ me being "biased for Lebron"

You're weak and desperate :oldlol:

[3ball]

Why not? Without Durant the Warriors haven't gone b2b. Forget 3-peating.

By your logic, you negated your own thread title.


true, but that bolsters/supports the facts:

it's an indictment on curry/klay/dray that they're 0-3 in the Finals without KD, if not for the Cavs' injuries in 2015.. this means they aren't championship-caliber - they literally have zero rings without KD, if not for the 15' injuries





Also gotta laugh @ me being "biased for Lebron"

You're weak and desperate :oldlol:


you say bron-ball exists, but then say the Spurs won because they were just "better"

But they were better because of teamwork, so that's lebron-ball.

You won't acknowledge this, and are therefore biased

[AussieSteve]

Lebron's 2nd option averaged 5 more points than everyone on the other team

Pippen averaged 1 more than worthy, had equal rebounds with Vlade and Perkins.. you have no argument

Pippen averaged more points, rebounds assists, steals, blocks, with better efficiency than his opposing 2nd option, while being the best defender on the floor, in the 91, 92 and 93 finals. You have no argument.

[Mr Feeny]

Pippen averaged more points, rebounds assists, steals, blocks, with better efficiency than his opposing 2nd option, while being the best defender on the floor, in the 91, 92 and 93 finals. You have no argument.

In other words Pippen didnt average 5 more ppg than anyone on the opposition teams in those finals? Unlike Lebron's 2nd option?

[AussieSteve]

In other words Pippen didnt average 5 more ppg than anyone on the opposition teams in those finals? Unlike Lebron's 2nd option?

I thought this thread is about teams going for a three peat. Kyrie Irving is completely irrelevant.

As always, 3ball and Co deflect and change the topic when backed into a corner.

So if you want to talk 2nd options in 3peat attempt, lets do that. Let's talk 1993, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2011, 2014, 2019 etc... How about 1993 pippen vs 2014 wade. Actually a closer comparison those years would be the bulls 3rd option vs wade.

So 1993 Finals Grant vs 2014 Finals Wade. Who was better?

I'll give you a hint. Outside of 4th qtr points with margin at 13+, wade averaged 9.8ppg on <40% in games 3-5.