2016 Love was not an 8 ppg player - many guys beat GSW easier by using Love better [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

06-17-2019, 02:59 PM

Like Kawhi showed this year - getting the most out of teammates makes your team better

Unfortunately, Lebron's skill restriction to ball-dominance reduces teammates/teamwork, thus requiring excessive talent to win..

heck, ANYONE could've averaged 8 ppg in those Finals, but lebron needed a 20+ guy to reduce to 8 ppg - that's the extra talent that bron-ball needs to offset the suboptimal teamwork and reduction of teammates

ArbitraryWater

06-17-2019, 03:00 PM

Kawhi's PF, Gasol, went from 19 ppg to 9 ppg in the playoffs with him, and 15 ppg to 9 ppg in the regular season with him.

Bankaii

06-17-2019, 03:07 PM

If it

Manny98

06-17-2019, 03:13 PM

Love was playing with a concussion and doesn't match up well against the Warriors, has nothing to do with Bron ball.

Kyrie averaged 27 that series was LeBron ball holding him back as well?

sdot_thadon

06-17-2019, 03:15 PM

Just popped in to verify Op was indeed murked by the 3rd reply. Confirmed several kills. 3ball thread.:oldlol:

3ball

06-17-2019, 03:25 PM

If it’s Lebron’s fault, why did love average more than double that in the Finals against pretty much the same team the very next year?

And lmao at any saying Kawhi makes people better. Dude is a horrible playmaker but ATG wingman standards.
^^^ This is the big misconception about basketball that most fans have - they think a guy that averages a lot of assists "makes guys better"

This is frequently false

Many times, a player averaging 8 assists doesn't elevate a team as much as a timely scorer that opens things up for teammates as a decoy, and only scores when teammates need it - teammates get to play their games, thus producing more and not being restricted to predictable, lower impact, play-finishing roles

The caveat is that the scorer must be a truly great scorer that can score in every way, like Kawhi, Kobe and MJ did.. they clearly elevate teams more than bron-ball

FKAri

06-17-2019, 03:26 PM

Jordan ball reduces teammates to play finishers rather than being first class citizens in a free flowing offense. It also requires stacking the deck with guys like GOAT perimeter defender Pippen, GOAT rebounder Rodman, GOAT shooter Kerr, GOAT Coach Jackson and rich man's Pau Gasol in Kukoc. This is why it has never been successful outside of Stern's rigged system.

JEFFERSON MONEY

06-17-2019, 03:38 PM

3ball

06-17-2019, 03:41 PM

Jordan ball reduces teammates to play finishers

^^^ ur apparently still in shock from me saying that about lebron years ago, but here's the statistical facts about MJ:

Pippen's assists (play-making) increased alongside Jordan, while every lebron teammates decreased

So MJ didn't turn teammates into play-finishers because he himself was a goat play-finisher and therefore a massive assist target that facilitated teammate play-making.. :confusedshrug:

But keep trolling bud.. I'd say you have about a 33% hit rate of good trolls vs. bad... This was a bad one.. there must be a kernal of truth for it to be a good troll, which this one lacked

It also requires stacking the deck with guys like GOAT perimeter defender Pippen, GOAT rebounder Rodman, GOAT shooter Kerr, GOAT Coach Jackson

Kerr and Rodman weren't on the first 3-peat team, and Phil was a first-time, nobody coach in 1990 and 1991 - MJ was infact the goat candidate, and therefore made Phil, not the other way around

And rich man's Pau Gasol in Kukoc.

Another bad troll... :facepalm .. so that's 0-3 and ur in a slump, below your normal average

StrongLurk

06-17-2019, 08:45 PM

Love had a concussion on top of not matching up well with the Warriors.

Klay and Dray shut down Love constantly.

In fact, Love has been extremely injury prone over his career and his game has clearly suffered from it.

ImKobe

06-17-2019, 09:25 PM

Kawhi's PF, Gasol, went from 19 ppg to 9 ppg in the playoffs with him, and 15 ppg to 9 ppg in the regular season with him.

Gasol went from a second option with 15 ppg this year to 9 ppg as a 4th option in Toronto.

But look at the difference in how the Raptors play. Gasol was 5th in minutes & 6th in FGA in the Finals yet still averaged 12 ppg.

Kawhi gets his numbers and his style of play allows his teammates to play at their best as well while Lebron needs the ball in order to produce the same. Leonard can play off-ball the whole game and end up with 30.

Bankaii

06-17-2019, 09:49 PM

^^^ This is the big misconception about basketball that most fans have - they think a guy that averages a lot of assists "makes guys better
No dumbass, I watched the games.
Kawhi would get trapped and have no idea what to do. He

3ball

06-17-2019, 11:31 PM

No dumbass, I watched the games.
Kawhi would get trapped and have no idea what to do. He’s so robotic. He either looks to score or kicks it back up top. He doesn’t have a drive and kick, or drop off passes. He’s a terrible playmaker compared to Lebron, Steph, etc.

Dude averaged 4 assists and 3 turnovers ffs. And he doesn’t have high hockey assists like Curry.

Literally anybody with a brain has noticed this. Try another agenda, this one failed miserably.
Yeah right bro - he didn't make guys better, yet he elevated a Canadian team to one of the best championships we've ever seen..

So something about your theory isn't right... apparently, my post is why (post #6 )

warriorfan

06-18-2019, 12:09 AM

on his last season in Minny, Kevin Love averaged 26.1/12.5/4.4/.591 TS%

The only 2 players to ever have that stat line are

https://i.postimg.cc/MHK1G4DZ/FC2-E0-D3-D-B0-C6-4978-B091-479490-FB49-DE.jpg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=26.1&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=12.5&c3stat=ast_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=4.4&c4stat=ts_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=.591&order_by=ws

1. Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar in 72
2. Kevin Love 14

Bankaii

06-18-2019, 01:06 AM

Yeah right bro - he didn't make guys better, yet he elevated a Canadian team to one of the best championships we've ever seen..

So something about your theory isn't right... apparently, my post is why (post #6 )
Elevated? They were a 1 seed before he even got there lmao.

And one of the best championships we've ever seen?:roll: :roll:
That was probably the lamest Finals of the modern era. Wasn't impressive the slightest.

Again, why did such a great playmaker average only 4 assists with 3 turnovers?

stalkerforlife

06-18-2019, 01:09 AM

http://i68.tinypic.com/34jahao.jpg

bigkingsfan

06-18-2019, 01:49 AM

That's Kyrie ball, 19/11 in 2018 after he left.

3ball

06-18-2019, 01:55 AM

Elevated? They were a 1 seed before he even got there lmao.

That's not true - they were the 1 seed with DeRozan.. Without him, they ain't the 1 seed

Kawhi elevated a 2nd round team that got swept by a team that was swept by record amount in the Finals... let that sink in

What Kawhi did is way better than anything bran ever did.. he beat a better Golden State team than Bron, because curry was at 31 ppg (not 22 like 16'), and Klay was at 26 ppg and 59% threes (not 16 ppg and 35%)...

Furthermore, Durant boosted them for 1 quarter in game 5, which offsets Klay's missed quarter in game 6.. so Klay only missed 1 game like Dray in 16'.. the injury narrative is simply false news by a biased, lebron/dubs dick-sucking media

Again, why did such a great playmaker average only 4 assists with 3 turnovers?

Who said Kawhi was a great assist-getter - because that's what ur talking about, not making plays, which Kawhi did a lot of

Timely scoring and letting teammates get off > getting assists and turning teammates into play-finishers
.

Mr Feeny

06-18-2019, 11:15 AM

[QUOTE=Bankaii]No dumbass, I watched the games.
Kawhi would get trapped and have no idea what to do. He

Mr Feeny

06-18-2019, 11:17 AM

That's not true - they were the 1 seed with DeRozan.. Without him, they ain't the 1 seed

Kawhi elevated a 2nd round team that got swept by a team that was swept by record amount in the Finals... let that sink in

What Kawhi did is way better than anything bran ever did.. he beat a better Golden State team than Bron, because curry was at 31 ppg (not 22 like 16'), and Klay was at 26 ppg and 59% threes (not 16 ppg and 35%)...

Furthermore, Durant boosted them for 1 quarter in game 5, which offsets Klay's missed quarter in game 6.. so Klay only missed 1 game like Dray in 16'.. the injury narrative is simply false news by a biased, lebron/dubs dick-sucking media

Who said Kawhi was a great assist-getter - because that's what ur talking about, not making plays, which Kawhi did a lot of

Timely scoring and letting teammates get off > getting assists and turning teammates into play-finishers
.

You're attempting to discuss basketball with a Lebron fanboy who is having difficulty accepting the fact that in the eyes or most basketball fans, Kawhi has surpassed his hero, as a player. Dont bother.

Hey Yo

06-18-2019, 11:24 AM

StrongLurk

06-18-2019, 08:58 PM

OP is so desperate.

He shit on the Warriors constantly to downplay Lebron...now he elevates Kawhi after beating the massively injured version of these "overrated, gimmicky" Warriors squads.

3ball

06-18-2019, 11:21 PM

OP is so desperate.

He shit on the Warriors constantly to downplay Lebron...now he elevates Kawhi after beating the massively injured version of these "overrated, gimmicky" Warriors squads.

^^ Not true

Durant boosted them for 1 quarter in game 5, which offsets Klay's missed quarter in game 6.. so Klay only missed 1 game like Dray in 16'.. the injury narrative is simply fake news by a lebron/dubs dick-sucking media

Furthermore, Kawhi beat a more experienced and better team than the 16' Warriors because curry was at 30 ppg in the 19' Finals (not 22 like 16'), while Klay was at 26 and 59% threes (not 19 and 35%)...

So keep making excuses - many teams destroy the KD-less Warriors, just like Kawhi and Bran did.. the kd-less Warriors are essentially 0-3 in the Finals, if not for injuries in 15' (8-10 in the Finals overall without KD).. .. They're simply not formidable like ur claiming - the results speak for themselves.. they're weaker than any Finals opponent MJ faced

StrongLurk

06-19-2019, 12:29 PM

^^ Not true

Durant boosted them for 1 quarter in game 5, which offsets Klay's missed quarter in game 6.. so Klay only missed 1 game like Dray in 16'.. the injury narrative is simply fake news by a lebron/dubs dick-sucking media

Furthermore, Kawhi beat a more experienced and better team than the 16' Warriors because curry was at 30 ppg in the 19' Finals (not 22 like 16'), while Klay was at 26 and 59% threes (not 19 and 35%)...

So keep making excuses - many teams destroy the KD-less Warriors, just like Kawhi and Bran did.. the kd-less Warriors are essentially 0-3 in the Finals, if not for injuries in 15' (8-10 in the Finals overall without KD).. .. They're simply not formidable like ur claiming - the results speak for themselves.. they're weaker than any Finals opponent MJ faced

Sounds like LeGOAT shut down Curry and Klay all while leading both teams in all major categories :bowdown:

Wow, AND you are giving Lebron another ring/FMVP for 2015.

We always knew you were a Bron fan

Mr Feeny

06-19-2019, 12:31 PM

Sounds like LeGOAT shut down Curry and Klay all while leading both teams in all major categories :bowdown:

Wow, AND you are giving Lebron another ring/FMVP for 2015.

We always knew you were a Bron fan

You havent really addressed what he said. Klay (an original top 3 member) was injured for 5 quarters in these finals. However, Durant played a quarter here to offset that extra quarter.

In 2016, a top 3 member (Draymond) missed 4 quarters, and he was considered more vital to the way the Warriors played, than Klay.

StrongLurk

06-19-2019, 12:36 PM

You havent really addressed what he said. Klay (an original top 3 member) was injured for 5 quarters in these finals. However, Durant played a quarter here to offset that extra quarter.

In 2016, a top 3 member (Draymond) missed 4 quarters, and he was considered more vital to the way the Warriors played, than Klay.

LeGOAT shut down Curry and Klay all while leading both teams in all major categories in 2016.

This is with K Love missing game 3 and clearly playing injured with lingering concussion effects the rest of the series.

Mr Feeny

06-19-2019, 12:39 PM

LeGOAT shut down Curry and Klay all while leading both teams in all major categories in 2016.

This is with K Love missing game 3 and clearly playing injured with lingering concussion effects the rest of the series.

You havent addressed his post.

bigkingsfan

06-19-2019, 12:42 PM

You havent addressed his post.
It was a stupid point, without Durant, the team are totally different now vs 2016.

Mr Feeny

06-19-2019, 12:45 PM

It was a stupid point, without Durant, the team are totally different now vs 2016.

Instead of going of on a tangent, he could have tried to make this point. And the answer ofcourse would be that the main trio is still there, dead smack in the middle of their primes.
But I do agree with you inasmuch as the depth isnt there and that's underrated.

Hey Yo

06-19-2019, 12:50 PM

^^^ ur apparently still in shock from me saying that about lebron years ago, but here's the statistical facts about MJ:

Pippen's assists (play-making) increased alongside Jordan, while every lebron teammates decreased
Which NBA team did Pippen play for before the Bulls?? What was his career avg in assists for that team(s)?

3ball

06-19-2019, 01:00 PM

Which NBA team did Pippen play for before the Bulls?? What was his career avg in assists for that team(s)?
Pippen's APG

1991 - 6.2
1992 - 7.0
1993 - 6.3

1994 - 5.6 (despite having the ball way more)

Hey Yo

06-19-2019, 01:32 PM

Pippen's APG

1991 - 6.2
1992 - 7.0
1993 - 6.3

1994 - 5.6 (despite having the ball way more)
BRREAKING NEWS:

without MJ and his 27FGA per game, Pippens assist avg. went down.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

How come the assist avg. stayed below 6pg from 1996-98. Why did MJ make him worse those years??

Cleverness

06-19-2019, 01:39 PM

Kevin Love is a guy capable of 30/30 games.

That's not a typo. 30 points... 30 rebounds...

Mr Feeny

06-19-2019, 01:42 PM

BRREAKING NEWS:

without MJ and his 27FGA per game, Pippens assist avg. went down.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

How come the assist avg. stayed below 6pg from 1996-98. Why did MJ make him worse those years??

This non sequiter is so stupid, that I'm not sure I should even reply. Or that anyone should.

3ball

06-19-2019, 01:44 PM

BRREAKING NEWS:

without MJ and his 27FGA per game, Pippens assist avg. went down.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

First you disagreed that MJ increased pippen's assists

Then I show you that he DID, and you melt down with emoji's... :facepalm

And are you dense or something??? good scorers are better assist targets than weaker scorers.. MJ was the goat scorer and off-ball player, so he was a goat assist target, and increased teammate assists...

The only exception would be a ball-dominant scorer, since they score on their own and aren't assist targets.. example - lebron, who dominates the ball (teammates don't assist him), thus lowering teammate assists

How come the assist avg. stayed below 6pg from 1996-98. Why did MJ make him worse those years??

Bulls had even better teamwork in the 2nd three-peat, so the assists were more spread around

Their goat teamwork was evident by their #1 offenses despite playing 4 on 5 offfensively (rodman), and a weak-scoring Pippen during the 2nd three-peat

Hey Yo

06-19-2019, 02:46 PM

First you disagreed that MJ increased pippen's assists

Then I show you that he DID, and you melt down with emoji's
I didn't disagree or agree.

There is no measuring stick with Pippen. He didn't play with any other teams before Chicago so how can MJ increase Pippen's assist totals if he had none to begin with?? Unless you're going to go all out super genius on me and cite increase of minutes played with MJ is the reason.

And are you dense or something??? good scorers are better assist targets than weaker scorers.. MJ was the goat scorer and off-ball player, so he was a great assist target, and increased teammate assists...
No shit, Nostradumbass. So why you citing Pippen's decrease in assists as a bad thing when MJ was replaced by a 6th round pick that same year?

Bulls had even better teamwork in the 2nd three-peat, so the assists were more spread around

Their goat teamwork was evident by their #1 offenses despite playing 4 on 5 offfensively (rodman), and a weak-scoring Pippen during the 2nd three-peat
You talk out of your ass and have an excuse for everything.

Facts are, MJ came back and Pippens assists stayed down to where they were when he quit the entire 1994 season.

TheCorporation

06-19-2019, 06:12 PM

How tf are you not banned with all your shit threads and I made one anti MJ thread and get a 2 week ban?

Joke of a site

TheCorporation

06-19-2019, 06:14 PM

Did Kyrie peak in 2016 under GOAT leadership?

Come on in, water's warm baby boy:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13754675#post13754675

Vino24

06-19-2019, 06:17 PM

op literally cant move the goal posts fast enough :oldlol: :oldlol:

3ball

06-19-2019, 11:08 PM

Did Kyrie peak in 2016 under GOAT leadership?

Come on in, water's warm baby boy:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13754675#post13754675
Yup he did

But he was a great player before lebron ever got there and was able to thrive next to lebron's ball-domination because he's a terrific SHOOTER.... Elite shooters are the only guys that thrive next to lebron.

Unfortunately, lebron's narrow, ball-dominant skillset is so dependant on one kind of teammate (shooters), that he cedes the best brand of ball, the best offenses and best teams to other franchises (spurs/warriors/mavs, 3/9)

Anything else?