This is what Michael Jordan used to get away with

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pi9HVePUko&t=6m48s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pi9HVePUko&t=7m12s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pi9HVePUko&t=8m08s

[90sgoat]

What are we supposed to look at?

[NBASTATMAN]

walks, travels, air balls, offensive fouls, :facepalm

[sdot_thadon]

Of course Mike got away with stuff, every star does. It's pretty much right of passage nowdays. Just isn't fully visible to people with colored glasses......

[wagexslave]

What an amazing triple overtime NBA finals game though. Man I miss my Suns being a perennial playoff team. They may not have won a championship(though they got robbed of one in 07), but damn they put on so many exciting basketball games over the years. They were always a "down to the wire" type of team. Close af games, overtimes, really fast paced playstyle. Fun to watch for all basketball fans. Esp the Steve Nash/Amare/Marion era.

[eliteballer]

What are we supposed to look at?

Have you ever dribbled a basketball? Dude was traveling like Carmen Sandiego.

[sdot_thadon]

Have you ever dribbled a basketball? Dude was traveling like Carmen Sandiego.
And it was a understood thing back then apparently. Crazy how much differently the media moves in this era.

[egokiller]

What are we supposed to look at?

Tom Chambers foiling MJ and MJ not getting the call.

[TheMan]

Have you ever dribbled a basketball? Dude was traveling like Carmen Sandiego.
https://youtu.be/rjM4z-M7gcA

[3ball]

You gotta admit.. mj's travels were pretty quick and hard to catch in the moment.

He was notorious for traveling on his patented stationary spin moves, but only years later did anyone notice when they watch the old highlights.. it wasn't a thing at the time - no one realized he was travelling on those moves.. it's a function of his goat skill that his travels weren't noticeable

[TheMan]

And it was a understood thing back then apparently. Crazy how much differently the media moves in this era.
https://youtu.be/rjM4z-M7gcA

Some of these are ridiculous

[egokiller]

I still remember MJ facing my Cavs and me screaming at the TV:

“Damn we know he’s GOAT but call a fvcking travel already!”

:roll:

[Cleverness]

It's not only the calls he got away with, but the ones called for him. If someone touched old Jordan he'd be shooting FTs.

[Marchesk]

It's not only the calls he got away with, but the ones called for him. If someone touched old Jordan he'd be shooting FTs.

Unless you're Reggie Miller pushing off to get open for a three to extend the series.

[Smook A.]

Name me a superstar that hasn't ever gotten away with offensive fouls, travels, push offs, etc. That's right, you can't. You're just cherry picking. MJ's still the GOAT

[TheMan]

Name me a superstar that hasn't ever gotten away with offensive fouls, travels, push offs, etc. That's right, you can't. You're just cherry picking. MJ's still the GOAT
The funny thing is that a lot of these whiney kunts are Bran Stans, them complaining about travels and offensive fouls is rich :oldlol: Bran literally bulldozes his way to the hole, he isn't agile/quick enough to blow past his defender without bullying his way to the hole, and the effing refs never call it, lol

[3ball]

.
Slickest travel ever??


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif


That's ****ing skill man...

He's basically mastered the footwork so well, that he's cutting corners to be even more effective.. without the refs noticing

[jstern]

.
Slickest travel ever??


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif


That's ****ing skill man...

He's basically mastered the footwork so well, that he's cutting corners to be even more effective.. without the refs noticing

I know it's a travel, but the way he's sliding his right foot. Almost looks impossible. As if the bottom of his shoe was lubricated. I haven't tried it, so maybe it's simple and I'm thinking too much of it.

The other thing that I wonder if it was all reflex, split second decision after he saw Chris Mills coming in for a double team that might have made the fadeaway more uncomfortable.

One of the things that stands out the most about Jordan is his reflex in conjunction to his body control/movement.

You posted this gif before.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2014/rd7lQD.gif

The little hop to his left in reaction to the double team fake, it's subtle but I feel it's improvised in a way that the vast majority of players would not be able to react.

Just his overall ability to react, act, moving his body in the perfect way. In situations that other would get stuck, because the movement required would involve something different than their otherwise vast majority of move.

Somebody quoted a book about Jordan's time in baseball, and some guy that measured reflexes for MLB baseball players said that Jordan's reaction time, in his 30s, was the fastest he'd ever tested.

Then on top of that, he didn't get enough space.

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/856867688ae55980456a37a9249002a5785b8deb13ff0a64d8 2e8f8b8bcc074ac32fa03d.jpg

Senses that in a split second, and so he fakes to his left again, and creates a more open shot.

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/409725375ad8657875e06b8525aa0825d1c4e9edbfb78b9fc3 772a0ed93991a036064b81.jpg

[SpaceJam]

.
Slickest travel ever??


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif


That's ****ing skill man...

He's basically mastered the footwork so well, that he's cutting corners to be even more effective.. without the refs noticing

'Bron gets away with so much :rant ...but guys this is cool'
:rolleyes:

[sportjames23]

'Bron gets away with so much :rant ...but guys this is cool'
:rolleyes:


LOL got you SEETHING. :oldlol:

[FKAri]

I'm surprised 3ball even admitted this. Funny how he didn't feel like admitting it whenever I've brought it up. What's really funny though is how 3ball and his acolytes are jerking it to how WELL MJ traveled now :oldlol:

[SpaceJam]

LOL got you SEETHING. :oldlol:

This clown again :roll:

Can't keep his bets, no integrity.

Literally brings nothing to the table, just follows around the head hunchos of the MJ fam to quote em with emojis. Give em that virtual succ brother

[Manny98]

MJ travelled and stiff armed his way to the basket damm near every single possession

It's like watching Harden play, MJ is a fraud

[LAmbruh]

and to think Hornacek and Ehlo were his hardest competition :roll:

[Hey Yo]

What are we supposed to look at?
That's exactly what Daddy Stern would say to opposing coaches while turning a blind eye.

[Hey Yo]

The funny thing is that a lot of these whiney kunts are Bran Stans, them complaining about travels and offensive fouls is rich :oldlol: Bran literally bulldozes his way to the hole, he isn't agile/quick enough to blow past his defender without bullying his way to the hole, and the effing refs never call it, lol
You might want to check the first page again, dumbass

[sdot_thadon]

Thought this has a place in this thread so here it is:


.....In Oakland, fans implored Bulls coach Kevin Loughery to put Jordan into a game that the Golden State Warriors were still in jeopardy of losing. Jack Nicholson, a longtime courtside regular at Laker games, did the unthinkable Friday by forgoing a Lakers-Kings game at the Forum to catch Jordan's act. The Clippers, not coincidently, outdrew the Lakers 14,366 to 12,766 that night. "After Michael dunked over Terry Tyler in Detroit," Chicago trainer Mark Pfeil says, "guys in three-piece suits were dealing high fives." Jordan has even been accorded that most hallowed acknowledgment of NBA stardom: The refs are letting him travel....
From the DECEMBER 10, 1984 issue, MJ's rookie season. So no more whining about xy or z getting away with something. All stars get away with something.

[3ball]

Thought this has a place in this thread so here it is:


From the DECEMBER 10, 1984 issue, MJ's rookie season. So no more whining about xy or z getting away with something. All stars get away with something.
Yes, but there's a difference between the skilled travel I showed earlier and lebron's blatant stiff-arming, double gather steps (blatant walking), and shuffling his feet everytime he catches it

Show me where MJ blatantly walked - that isn't how MJ travelled.. he travelled in skilled ways that lebron never could, on moves that LeMechanical could never do - just look at lebron's up-and-under move - utter garbage - just a stumbling, bumbling fool.. lebron "shaq's" guys more than he "jukes" guys with skill

[RRR3]

I'm surprised 3ball even admitted this. Funny how he didn't feel like admitting it whenever I've brought it up. What's really funny though is how 3ball and his acolytes are jerking it to how WELL MJ traveled now :oldlol:
To 3ball, jstern, samuraiswoosh, egokiller/Straight_Ballin/lbjftw, DonDadda/SomeBlackDude, bullettooth, sportjames23, andgar, da realist, etc MJ has to be the best at EVERYTHING.

[ArbitraryWater]

soo glorified


imagine if he was under the LBJ lense :oldlol:


but what are you actually linking us to on the 2nd one? a missed shot?

[TheMan]

MJ travelled and stiff armed his way to the basket damm near every single possession

It's like watching Harden play, MJ is a fraud

Got another one seething :oldlol:

[jstern]

To 3ball, jstern, samuraiswoosh, egokiller/Straight_Ballin/lbjftw, DonDadda/SomeBlackDude, bullettooth, sportjames23, andgar, da realist, etc MJ has to be the best at EVERYTHING.

My post was more about Jordan's reflexes, and the gif happened to showcase it with the way his body reacted to the appearance of Chris Mills. I like to analyses techniques. Specially Jordan's, because I feel that the reason why he didn't get injured as often, compared to others who played similar minutes had a lot to do with technique.

I also put Lebron in their. But because his game has more simple, natural body movements without doing crazy moving around that others players do. More simple dribble, run, jump. (This is a good thing.)

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif

Jordan always put his feet, legs, in a natural position, which causes a lot less stress, wear and tear. Again, take a look at Jordan's right foot in this travel. If he turned where the right foot was originally planted, it would had meant a lot more stress on that leg, tendon, and so on. Overtime, without those proper techniques the wear and tear could lead to injury. A weakening a muscle here and there, which could even lead to an achilles tear.

Just a lot of body awareness.

[paksat]

My post was more about Jordan's reflexes, and the gif happened to showcase it with the way his body reacted to the appearance of Chris Mills. I like to analyses techniques. Specially Jordan's, because I feel that the reason why he didn't get injured as often, compared to others who played similar minutes had a lot to do with technique.

I also put Lebron in their. But because his game has more simple, natural body movements without doing crazy moving around that others players do. More simple dribble, run, jump. (This is a good thing.)

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif

Jordan always put his feet, legs, in a natural position, which causes a lot less stress, wear and tear. Again, take a look at Jordan's right foot in this travel. If he turned where the right foot was originally planted, it would had meant a lot more stress on that leg, tendon, and so on. Overtime, without those proper techniques the wear and tear could lead to injury. A weakening a muscle here and there, which could even lead to an achilles tear.

Just a lot of body awareness.

people used to say he ain't human every now and then, some called him an alien

I used to think it was just people having a laugh at how good he was, but sometimes I wonder..

this guy does stuff with so much immense awareness of EVERYTHING that it's just like.. humans don't do this shit man

like what you just caught in that gif is a perfect example of what i've been seeing for the last year or 2 that i've been studying the guy. He feels no pressure whatsoever in ANY situation seemingly. How many times can you see him even flinch? I've watched this guy shoot so many free throws now, the 86 celtics 63 point game he just walks up and knocks down those 2 free throws like he was in a gym by himself

I can see why kids growing up were in flat out awe of this guy, this "human."

[Elosha]

It's amazing to me that OP can post this with a straight face. :rolleyes: Today's stars travel, commit offensive fouls, whine, flop so much more blatantly than Jordan ever did, it's insane. And not only do they do it more frequently, they create far greater unfair ADVANTAGE than Jordan ever did. What's harder for a defender to defend, a tiny shift in Jordan's pivot foot in the post before going into his move or LBJ or Harden taking three or four steps without dribbling while driving the lane? Or what's harder to defend, Jordan's slight stutter step, or Lebron literally stiff arming his way to the basket routinely, shoving defenders 5 feet out of his path to clear an easy basket? :facepalm

If today's superstars were called like MJ was called back in the day (and yes, Jordan certainly did get some superstar calls), they'd have to completely recalibrate their game. Harden's per game turnovers would double/triple, and he'd get to the foul line at least 3-4 fewer times per game. Lebron's turnovers and offensive fouls would probably double.

[sdot_thadon]

It's amazing to me that OP can post this with a straight face. :rolleyes: Today's stars travel, commit offensive fouls, whine, flop so much more blatantly than Jordan ever did, it's insane. And not only do they do it more frequently, they create far greater unfair ADVANTAGE than Jordan ever did. What's harder for a defender to defend, a tiny shift in Jordan's pivot foot in the post before going into his move or LBJ or Harden taking three or four steps without dribbling while driving the lane? Or what's harder to defend, Jordan's slight stutter step, or Lebron literally stiff arming his way to the basket routinely, shoving defenders 5 feet out of his path to clear an easy basket? :facepalm

If today's superstars were called like MJ was called back in the day (and yes, Jordan certainly did get some superstar calls), they'd have to completely recalibrate their game. Harden's per game turnovers would double/triple, and he'd get to the foul line at least 3-4 fewer times per game. Lebron's turnovers and offensive fouls would probably double.
I somehow don't think the point of the Op was today's players don't get away with things. I'm pretty sure it's something along the lines of even the goat got away with things whether you like it or not.

[3ball]

I know it's a travel, but the way he's sliding his right foot. Almost looks impossible. As if the bottom of his shoe was lubricated. I haven't tried it, so maybe it's simple and I'm thinking too much of it.

The other thing that I wonder if it was all reflex, split second decision after he saw Chris Mills coming in for a double team that might have made the fadeaway more uncomfortable.

One of the things that stands out the most about Jordan is his reflex in conjunction to his body control/movement.

You posted this gif before.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2014/rd7lQD.gif

The little hop to his left in reaction to the double team fake, it's subtle but I feel it's improvised in a way that the vast majority of players would not be able to react.

Just his overall ability to react, act, moving his body in the perfect way. In situations that other would get stuck, because the movement required would involve something different than their otherwise vast majority of move.

Somebody quoted a book about Jordan's time in baseball, and some guy that measured reflexes for MLB baseball players said that Jordan's reaction time, in his 30s, was the fastest he'd ever tested.

Then on top of that, he didn't get enough space.

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/856867688ae55980456a37a9249002a5785b8deb13ff0a64d8 2e8f8b8bcc074ac32fa03d.jpg

Senses that in a split second, and so he fakes to his left again, and creates a more open shot.

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/409725375ad8657875e06b8525aa0825d1c4e9edbfb78b9fc3 772a0ed93991a036064b81.jpg



Agreed - that's what made MJ next-level - his ability to know what the defense will do and counteract quickly upon the catch

Here's one of my favorite moves that he would do - he would move TOWARDS a rushing double-teamer, thus using their momentum against them to get open - it's an aikido-like move and genius:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/_QaNZO.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/1uzmnE.gif


Here's a great video that you've probably seen showing all post plays - he's doubled on literally half of them, so he's eluding defenders like crazy the whole video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg

[Kblaze8855]

Ewing with his travel across the lane and double dribbles, Webber with his arm hook spins, the moving pivot on the dreamshake, and shaq "Touching people up" with the elbow as he put it....Jordan wasnt really among the most violation prone guys of the 90s....but yes he would travel at times and some of his change of directions were a carry....but thats the same for most guys with huge hands. When your hand is half the ball its hard not to be a little under it as you explode the other direction. People used to bitch about it....but he was just under a bigger spotlight.

He wasnt all that obvious with it.

[sdot_thadon]

Ewing with his travel across the lane and double dribbles, Webber with his arm hook spins, the moving pivot on the dreamshake, and shaq "Touching people up" with the elbow as he put it....Jordan wasnt really among the most violation prone guys of the 90s....but yes he would travel at times and some of his change of directions were a carry....but thats the same for most guys with huge hands. When your hand is half the ball its hard not to be a little under it as you explode the other direction. People used to bitch about it....but he was just under a bigger spotlight.

He wasnt all that obvious with it.
That's truth, but the old heads in my life back then made sure i knew he carried the ball on his drives, they were not fans to say the least.

One thing for sure no one would do what they did in the 60s, 90s or otherwise. I doubt half the modern wingss would be able to do half of what is done from the 90s on.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea I wont dispute that the previous generation called it out. He did carry relative to what they came up on.....but less than the Durant and Giannis types now.

[sdot_thadon]

Yea I wont dispute that the previous generation called it out. He did carry relative to what they came up on.....but less than the Durant and Giannis types now.
In my circle they hate to hear it but i always remind them Kd didn't make the next leap until they stopped calling carrying on him, and likewise with Giannis.

[GOBB]

Shaq got away with blatant offensive fouls in the 01 nba finals. Refs call it the Sixers win a title. :confusedshrug:

[Elosha]

I somehow don't think the point of the Op was today's players don't get away with things. I'm pretty sure it's something along the lines of even the goat got away with things whether you like it or not.

You might be right, since OP didn't really describe the purpose of his thread, other than what is in the title. And my response, as I made clear, indicated that Jordan did, at times, get preferential superstar treatment (what superstar doesn't?). But some of the follow up responses to the thread grossly exaggerated whatever Jordan violations did get away with. TBH, my point is that today's superstars actually get away with a lot more that would have been easy travels/fouls/flops in today's era.

If anything, the league is even more deferential to superstars today than in yesteryear.

[GOBB]

You might be right, since OP didn't really describe the purpose of his thread, other than what is in the title. And my response, as I made clear, indicated that Jordan did, at times, get preferential superstar treatment (what superstar doesn't?). But some of the follow up responses to the thread grossly exaggerated whatever Jordan violations did get away with. TBH, my point is that today's superstars actually get away with a lot more that would have been easy travels/fouls/flops in today's era.

If anything, the league is even more deferential to superstars today than in yesteryear.

This is not up for debate

[Stringer Bell]

It

[Elosha]

It’s no secret Jordan and other stars got away with a lot of stuff. Sports illustrated had a cover article on Jordan like two weeks into his pro career and said “he’s already getting star treatment, referees are letting him travel”. So before he entered the league, stars (such as Dr. J) were known to get away with traveling.

To name a couple others, Olajuwon and Ewing got away with travelling a lot. The difference is, Hakeem was graceful and had brilliant footwork. He would travel, but it was often hard to see. Ewing, on the other hand, was more noticeable.

https://youtu.be/QU_8Z3iqodg

I'd agree with you here in general, but it's also "no secret" that today's stars get away with a lot more, and lot more frequently, and lot more blatantly. The (relatively speaking) subtle and less frequent travels in the 90's has morphed into today's stars, and even role players being able to take 3-4 steps routinely on drives/fastbreaks without dribbling or taking three to four hop steps for a step back three (Harden), huge benefits to the offensive player when you think about it. They'd never get away with such routine violations in any other era.

[sdot_thadon]

I'd agree with you here in general, but it's also "no secret" that today's stars get away with a lot more, and lot more frequently, and lot more blatantly. The (relatively speaking) subtle and less frequent travels in the 90's has morphed into today's stars, and even role players being able to take 3-4 steps routinely on drives/fastbreaks without dribbling or taking three to four hop steps for a step back three (Harden), huge benefits to the offensive player when you think about it. They'd never get away with such routine violations in any other era.
I almost agree with you here until you try to justify or quantify it. A violation is a violation no matter how "slick''it looked. We all deep down know the real reason why they allow it. It makes for a more entertaining game. Here's a couple of things to consider:

If they called Mj for every bending of the rulebook would we even have the game we have today?

If they allow "more" players to get away with violations isn't that better than just allowing a couple in an entire league? One sounds more "fair" for lack of a better term.:oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

.
Slickest travel ever??


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/2W8Sq2.gif


That's ****ing skill man...

He's basically mastered the footwork so well, that he's cutting corners to be even more effective.. without the refs noticing

I saw this play many times, didn't realize he traveled. But there are levels to traveling. Worst ones being taking multiple, extra steps. Slightly picking up your pivot foot is the lower end of traveling. And like you said, MJ did it so quick, no way the naked eye can pick it up.

[ClipperRevival]

Agreed - that's what made MJ next-level - his ability to know what the defense will do and counteract quickly upon the catch

Here's one of my favorite moves that he would do - he would move TOWARDS a rushing double-teamer, thus using their momentum against them to get open - it's an aikido-like move and genius:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/_QaNZO.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/1uzmnE.gif


Here's a great video that you've probably seen showing all post plays - he's doubled on literally half of them, so he's eluding defenders like crazy the whole video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg

Probably MJ's most underrated attribute that isn't recognized by youngsters of today is his quickness. Most people don't realize how cat-quick he was. Like an explosive PG quick like KJ or AI. His quickness allowed him to devastate on both ends. Speed freaken kills.

[eliteballer]

Probably MJ's most underrated attribute that isn't recognized by youngsters of today is his quickness. Most people don't realize how cat-quick he was. Like an explosive PG quick like KJ or AI. His quickness allowed him to devastate on both ends. Speed freaken kills.

Traveling helps you move faster..

[Elosha]

Traveling helps you move faster..

Just curious, is that your explanation for why LeBron moves so fast? Or is it a combination of traveling and steroids?

[Mr Feeny]

Probably MJ's most underrated attribute that isn't recognized by youngsters of today is his quickness. Most people don't realize how cat-quick he was. Like an explosive PG quick like KJ or AI. His quickness allowed him to devastate on both ends. Speed freaken kills.

That's pretty much it. It made it difficult for bigger guards (6-5 and over) to guard him because they couldnt stay in front of him. His first step was so quick.

[jstern]

Agreed - that's what made MJ next-level - his ability to know what the defense will do and counteract quickly upon the catch

Here's one of my favorite moves that he would do - he would move TOWARDS a rushing double-teamer, thus using their momentum against them to get open - it's an aikido-like move and genius:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/_QaNZO.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-18-2019/1uzmnE.gif


Here's a great video that you've probably seen showing all post plays - he's doubled on literally half of them, so he's eluding defenders like crazy the whole video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg

I've never seen this video. I'm watching it now. A lot of skillful moves in this one. Today I'm going to attempt the one at 4:06. I like the way he kind of jumped into his fadeaway fake.

I can attempt to do his moves, but it's the reading and reaction that's really hard to emulate. The double team is rushing towards him, no where to go, just run past him towards his direction.

Even though I'm sure he practiced such scenarios, most players would just default into something more simple but worse. Shot up an unbalance shot, pass it to a scared role player. Very composed.

[eliteballer]

Jordan's traveling on his spins and post moves was unbelievable at times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY&t=19m03s

[Mamba4Life]

Jordan's traveling on his spins and post moves was unbelievable at times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY&t=19m03s



What about all the anabolic steroids he got away with?