Chris Bosh vs Scottie Pippen in the Playoffs

[Vino24]

Chris Bosh: 15ppg 8reb 1ast

Scottie Pippen: 18ppg 8reb 5ast

Also Scottie scored a 30pt double double to close out a finals series. Much better than anything Bosh did in the finals :bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Chris Bosh: 15ppg 8reb 1ast

Scottie Pippen: 18ppg 8reb 5ast

Also Scottie scored a 30pt double double to close out a finals series. Much better than anything Bosh did in the finals :bowdown:

We know. Bosh went from top 5 in PER to a scrub as soon as he played with Lebron. The great players elevate their teammates. It seems Lebron has a habit of doing the opposite.

[Vino24]

We know. Bosh went from top 5 in PER to a scrub as soon as he played with Lebron. The great players elevate their teammates. It seems Lebron has a habit of doing the opposite.
What about Kyrie Irving? never had a better season / playoffs when playing under LeElevate

[LAmbruh]

very interesting data Vino


Scottie was a force :applause:

[3ball]

You realize you're comparing a 3rd option that was marginalized by a non-assist-target, ball-dominator, to a 2nd option that was boosted by an all-time assist target?

Not exactly apples to apples .

The reality is that Bosh was a better raw talent that didn't get his resume or game boosted by the goat

[Vino24]

You realize you're comparing a 3rd option that was marginalized by a non-assist-target, ball-dominator, to a 2nd option that was boosted by an all-time assist target?

Not exactly apples to apples .

The reality is that Bosh was a better raw talent that didn't get his resume boosted by the goat
LeBron got a lot more people involved than MJ. MJ averaged less assists than LeAssist

[Mr Feeny]

What about Kyrie Irving? never had a better season / playoffs when playing under LeElevate

Ah. That's more like it! Turn the debate into a Kyrie vs Pippen one since those are the 2nd options. Pippen ofcourse was never good enough to average 27 ppg ina finals or to score a title winning shot on an isolation against the reigning MVP.

[Mr Feeny]

LeBron got a lot more people involved than MJ. MJ averaged less assists than LeAssist

You're all over the place. You dont seem to know what argument you want to make.

[Vino24]

You're all over the place. You dont seem to know what argument you want to make.
it's simple LeBron did everything to make his teams perform better including making Delly look like a dpoy type player

[3ball]

LeBron got a lot more people involved than MJ. MJ averaged less assists than LeAssist
Glad you brought that up

It's better to be a timely scorer that let's teammates maximize their role, opportunity, and production before taking over when needed, then a high-assist ball-dominator that controls all the action and turns teammates into lower-producing, lower impact, play-finishers

Essentially, the high-assist ball-dominator is suboptimal and a less effective way of winning - no one averaging 8+ assists in RS, PO, or Finals won any rings in the 90's or 00's - that's 20+ years where no high-assist guys won rings.. the 2010's only saw one 8-assist guy win a ring (16' Bron), so basically 30 years with no high-assist guys winning (edit: Kidd averaged 8.2 apg in 2011 RS..MJ averaged 11.2 in 91' Finals)

The 80's saw a bunch, but Magic needed the most stacked teams of the modern era, while Isiah needed 3x all-stars at every starting spot and ground-breaking defensive tactics.

I actually think Magic is either overrated, or SO good at passing that he could make it work.. this issue could be figured out by looking for his vulnerability in the 90' WCSF, when KJ's Suns demolished his heavily-favored, 1-seeded Lakers

[Vino24]

Glad you brought that up

It's better to be a timely scorer that let's teammates maximize their role, opportunity, and production before taking over when needed, then a high-assist ball-dominator that controls all the action and turns teammates into lower-producing, lower impact, play-finishers

Essentially, the high-assist ball-dominator is suboptimal and a less effective way of winning - no one averaging 8+ assists in RS, PO, or Finals won any rings in the 90's or 00's - that's 20+ years where no high-assist guys won rings.. the 2010's only saw one 8-assist guy win a ring (16' Bron), so basically 30 years with no high-assist guys winning (edit: Kidd averaged 8.2 apg in 2011 RS..MJ averaged 11.2 in 91' Finals)

The 80's saw a bunch, but Magic needed the most stacked teams of the modern era, while Isiah needed 3x all-stars at every starting spot and ground-breaking defensive tactics.

I actually think Magic is either overrated, or SO good at passing that he could make it work.. this issue could be figured out by looking for his vulnerability in the 90' WCSF, when KJ's Suns demolished his heavily-favored, 1-seeded Lakers
Interesting. Why was LeBron's "ball dominant style" the only way possible to beat a 70+win team in the finals?

[SomeBlackDude]

2nd option vs 3rd option.

makes sense.

[Vino24]

2nd option vs 3rd option.

makes sense.
after the 1st year together Bosh was > than Wade

[ArbitraryWater]

2nd option vs 3rd option.

makes sense.

dadda makes first factual post in 4 years and 2 months

[ArbitraryWater]

after the 1st year together Bosh was > than Wade

https://i.gyazo.com/d6c251c83b80ecb2a144037ededd07ce.png

[SomeBlackDude]

after the 1st year together Bosh was > than Wade

this man is on the bath salts.

shut this thread down, mods.

op, get help.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://i.gyazo.com/d6c251c83b80ecb2a144037ededd07ce.png
:oldlol:

[3ball]

Interesting. Why was LeBron's "ball dominant style" the only way possible to beat a 70+win team in the finals?

No, because they weren't anywhere near 70-win caliber in the Finals:


Curry 2016 RS.......... 30.1 ppg.. 50.4 fg.. 66.9 ts.. 125 ortg
Curry 2016 Finals..... 22.6 ppg.. 40.3 fg.. 58.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. sustained MCL injury


A lot of guys would've beaten that team, and easier than lebron did because they would've gotten more out of Love, instead of turning him into an ordinary banger like say, Haslem

Kawhi did just that, except he beat a better Warrior team that took the regular season lightly to rest for the 3-peat - Curry averaged 30 ppg in the 19' Finals instead of 22 in 2016, and Klay was at 26 on 59% threes instead of 19.6 on 35% threes

Kawhi also beat a team that got a 1 quarter boost from Durant in Game 5, which offset Klay missing a quarter in game 6 - so Klay only missed 1 game, just like Dray in 16'.. the injury narrative is fake news spread by the lebron/dubs, ass-licking media

It's funny because Kawhi won by being outscored by Curry, and Klay drastically outscored Siakam.. otoh, lebron won by his 2nd option outscoring Curry by 5 ppg - so lebron won via talent, while Kawhi won via teamwork and superior methodology (versatile, timely scoring > ball-dominant assists and teammate role reduction)
.

[stalkerforlife]

We know. Bosh went from top 5 in PER to a scrub as soon as he played with Lebron. The great players elevate their teammates. It seems Lebron has a habit of doing the opposite.

Damn bro, you're turning on your boy? :eek:

[AussieSteve]

We know. Bosh went from top 5 in PER to a scrub as soon as he played with Lebron. The great players elevate their teammates. It seems Lebron has a habit of doing the opposite.

Bosh was LeBron's 3rd option.

Horace was MJs 3rd option. He went from 12/8 on 56% in the PO during the bull's 3peat to 15/10 on 57% the following 3 years. He was also an AS and made 3 straight All-D teams vs 1 with MJ.

He added 3 points, 2 rebounds and became a better defender without MJ.

Note that Scottie also added 3ppg without MJ and B.J. added 4ppg...That elevation.

[NBAGOAT]

i like bosh a lot and know those bron/bosh lineups without wade did pretty well. Bosh was only better than wade by like 14 however lol

[RRR3]

i like bosh a lot and know those bron/bosh lineups without wade did pretty well. Bosh was only better than wade by like 14 however lol
Bosh was putting up like 25/7 when next to LeBron when Wade was out in 2012.

[NBAGOAT]

Bosh was putting up like 25/7 when next to LeBron when Wade was out in 2012.

yea i remember his numbers were pretty great and their record was good. Looked up their record the last 3 years.

12: 14-3 no wade
13: 11-2 no wade
14: 18-10 no wade

Kind of shows the redundancy of bron and wade however. Also doc made a point before the finals I agree with, the 3rd guy on a title team is usually sacrificing and even more so in the playoffs when teams iso more and decide to just ride their top 2 guys(why would you iso your 3rd best guy a lot).

Klay in 18 is one of the few exceptions but he still obviously has the ability to do more and he didnt score a lot in 17.

[Vino24]

Bosh was LeBron's 3rd option.

Horace was MJs 3rd option. He went from 12/8 on 56% in the PO during the bull's 3peat to 15/10 on 57% the following 3 years. He was also an AS and made 3 straight All-D teams vs 1 with MJ.

He added 3 points, 2 rebounds and became a better defender without MJ.

Note that Scottie also added 3ppg without MJ and B.J. added 4ppg...That elevation.
Turns out MJ's volume scoring actually hurt his teammates :biggums:

[3ball]

Bosh was LeBron's 3rd option.

Horace was MJs 3rd option. He went from 12/8 on 56% in the PO during the bull's 3peat to 15/10 on 57% the following 3 years. He was also an AS and made 3 straight All-D teams vs 1 with MJ.

He added 3 points, 2 rebounds and became a better defender without MJ.

Note that Scottie also added 3ppg without MJ and B.J. added 4ppg...That elevation.
Reducing horace by 3 ppg doesn't compare to lebron reducing love from 26 to 8 ppg in the Finals.. or Bosh from 24 to 12.. they went from 1st to 3rd option, but that's still too much of a decline - Klay, Worthy and Parish were all 20 ppg third options

Also, Horace was a younger player for most of his tenure with MJ... And ur comparing MJ to a center (Shaq), instead of a fellow wing like Lebron

Horace carried the interior burden more alongside MJ than he did alongside Shaq, who made things very easy for him inside

Horace's best regular season numbers as a Bull are similar to his Orlando numbers.. But the playoffs was another level of physicality inside, so that's where you see his numbers decline - he had to hold down the middle defensively on the bulls, but alongside Shaq, he had it easy

[Manny98]

We know. Bosh went from top 5 in PER to a scrub as soon as he played with Lebron. The great players elevate their teammates. It seems Lebron has a habit of doing the opposite.
Your such a dumbass, Bosh wasn't doing shit before he joined LeBron

Top 5 PER doesn't mean f*ck all if you cant even get past the first round

[Mr Feeny]

Bosh was LeBron's 3rd option.

Horace was MJs 3rd option. He went from 12/8 on 56% in the PO during the bull's 3peat to 15/10 on 57% the following 3 years. He was also an AS and made 3 straight All-D teams vs 1 with MJ.

He added 3 points, 2 rebounds and became a better defender without MJ.

Note that Scottie also added 3ppg without MJ and B.J. added 4ppg...That elevation.are you winding my up with stupidity or are you naturally wired that way? Having you ppg drop by 3 as you become the 1st option when the greatest scorer ever retired and there are more shots to go around is very different from dropping from going from 26 and 14 to a scrub overnight.

I know that some of the Lebron kids here dont understand the first thing about basketball but even I am surprised at some of the stupidity I'm reading here.

[Mr Feeny]

Your such a dumbass, Bosh wasn't doing shit before he joined LeBron

Top 5 PER doesn't mean f*ck all if you cant even get past the first round

The 1st round isnt a significant demarcation. The title is. By your logic, all of Lebron's stats in Cleveland that first stint meant nothing when he couldnt win the title. I.e. the "rangz argumrnt" revisited.

Love went from a 26 and 14 guy to a scrub. Why do you think that is?

[Manny98]

The 1st round isnt a significant demarcation. The title is. By your logic, all of Lebron's stats in Cleveland that first stint meant nothing when he couldnt win the title. I.e. the "rangz argumrnt" revisited.

Love went from a 26 and 14 guy to a scrub. Why do you think that is?
LeBron took a cast of G leaguers to the finals in 07

Mr 26 and 14 couldn't even sniff the playoffs prior to joining LeBron

Anyone can put up those type of numbers on a lottery team see DeMarcus Cousins on the Kings and Devin Booker

[nayte]

I'm guessing this is a troll thread casue it's pretty obvious

[Phoenix]

LeBron took a cast of G leaguers to the finals in 07

Mr 26 and 14 couldn't even sniff the playoffs prior to joining LeBron

Anyone can put up those type of numbers on a lottery team see DeMarcus Cousins on the Kings and Devin Booker

The Wolves won 40 games the season before Love went to Cleveland. That would be been the 8th seed in the east. In order to break the 8th seed in the West that year you needed 49 wins. For further clarity, 49 wins would have been the 3rd seed in the east behind Indiana and Miami. Hope that clears things up for ya....

[nayte]

Congrats. U are all in a rare level of stupidity in this thread. Both the Jordan haters and lovers for arguing this shit.