38 year old 6'4 midget destroys 6'8 Beast defensively

[andgar923]

Basically all but shuts him down. Had a hard time driving on him, had a hard time getting position, had a hard time getting open looks. The 6'8 physical beast had a hard time getting into a rhythm forced to pass often even though he had the age and physical advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNG36cGl8J8&list=PLl0ny9_3DLnHSOMlAy-TGzqbWxJF3o9ja&index=2

Do you want more?

Oh... there be more.

Physical beast was basically a shell of himself forced to stand on the corner and give up the ball.

Again, giving up the ball is different than initiating the offence and creating for his teammates. Most of these possessions were simply the beast giving up the pill cause he well.... couldn't really do much aside from chuck.

[ralph_i_el]

Put some respect on Kidd's name. He's an ATG and 9 time All-NBA defender.

[LAmbruh]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[RealSkipBayless]

Didn't an out of shape roleplayer in Boris Diaw lock down that 6'8 "Beast" as well? I think a roleplayer got a FMVP off him too

This guy sounds kind of overrated. People don't consider him one of the greats right...?

[andgar923]

Put some respect on Kidd's name. He's an ATG and 9 time All-NBA defender.
But he's a slow, unathletic, short, old midget :confusedshrug:

Aint that what the argument usually is?

"Beast will simply bulldoze his way and abuse these midgets!!!"
"Unathletic players won't do shit vs super beast!!!"

[Gus Hemmingway]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The Beast! LOLOLOL

[warriorfan]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

MJ won his series vs the 6’4” white dude though...

LeBron on the other hand....




Yikes

[LAmbruh]

The Beast! LOLOLOL

36yo, 6'2, 190lb Hornacek giving MJ the Rondo treatment


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5ftg-bOt6o/maxresdefault.jpg


:yaohappy:

[ralph_i_el]

But he's a slow, unathletic, short, old midget :confusedshrug:

Aint that what the argument usually is?

"Beast will simply bulldoze his way and abuse these midgets!!!"
"Unathletic players won't do shit vs super beast!!!"

I don't know about all that. Kidd was obsessive about taking care of his body. He guarded a lot wings. Also, he had Tyson Chandler in the paint...who won DPoY the next season.

Also this is all silly because the Mavs tripped LeBron up by playing a very good zone defense.

[andgar923]

I don't know about all that. Kidd was obsessive about taking care of his body. He guarded a lot wings. Also, he had Tyson Chandler in the paint...who won DPoY the next season.

Also this is all silly because the Mavs tripped LeBron up by playing a very good zone defense.
Old man Wiz made Swiss cheese out of the same players and most of the same team.

Actually, old man Wiz under tougher rules and tougher team and individual defense/ers.

[Gus Hemmingway]

36yo, 6'2, 190lb Hornacek giving MJ the Rondo treatment


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5ftg-bOt6o/maxresdefault.jpg


:yaohappy:

Looks like his usual WNBA 3pt line got pushed back to the big boys club


No wonder MJ was so timid to shoot

[andgar923]

LOL they're scrambling like cockroaches :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

just a simple minded and narrow argument and ofc you cite nobody touches jordan's youtube channel. His interpretation of good and bad defensive plays is suspect to say the least...

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan's 3PT% after the league decided to move the 3 back to its original spot.

24%
19%
29%

YIKES

[Vino24]

Kidd was also much stronger and he is half black. Stockton looks like a pencil necked geek for a law firm :oldlol:

[andgar923]

LOL @ the excuses and scrambling "But... but... but"

[LAmbruh]

LOL @ the excuses and scrambling "But... but... but"
we're having a formal discussion about Jeff Hornacek and 90's competitiveness


it seems you are the one on edge

[andgar923]

we're having a formal discussion about Jeff Hornacek and 90's competitiveness


it seems you are the one on edge
Naw, all I read are excuses:confusedshrug:

[Gileraracer]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CllRe7KWEAAihOU.jpg

[SpaceJam]

https://media.giphy.com/media/S8fBIlVRHSkfqp3whG/giphy.gif

[Mr Feeny]

It's all good. Jordan and Lebron are top 3 GOATS. They stay slaying:banana:

[Manny98]

LAmbruh shut this thread down quick :lol

[plowking]

How is LeBron still at the forefront of MJ fans minds given everything that has gone on this season?

Some of you really need to get a grip, and get a hobby or something going in your lives.

[AintNoSunshine]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


Wait was Jordan guarded by this guy? Jordan must have averaged 50 like people suggest he would in today's league.

[Showtime80']

Here comes 87 right on schedule with the information without context. Michael barely shot one 3 a game from 1998 to 2003 when he was between 34 and 39 y/o!

When he shot the most 3's in his career (during his physical prime) in 1990 and 1993 he shot 38% and 35% respectively and in the first 3-peat he shot 39% from 3 during the playoffs capping it of with 4 attempts in the 1993 playoffs (highest with the original line).

For a guy that NEVER PRACTICED 3 pointers because he felt it would take away from his game and rightly so (a lesson the present soft 3 point chucking league could definitely take to heart) he delivered when it mattered and defenses still had to respect him out there even though his game was attacking the rim and killing the mid range and teams concentrated on packing the paint against him as the main defensive strategy.

Here's the man himself talking about it and showing his range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzbrBUFB4Y&t=427s

LOL, the dude was more exciting in his LEAST PRACTICED AND HERALDED aspect of the game than Stephie Curry is at basically ALL HE PRACTICES AND REVOLVES his game around. Unreal!

Jordan's hang time on his jumpers is still unmatched EVEN TO THIS DAY of supposed "superhuman" athletes. Hell he could still get it off against Kobe, Carter, McGrady and Artest when he's knees were gone at 39 y/o!!!

[superduper]

Andgar is straight up DESTROYING these idiots :oldlol:

But but but Bran would be a GAWD amongst those 6'4 unathletic nerds!!

They have no idea what to respond with so they're desperately deflecting

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

Here comes 87 right on schedule with the information without context. Michael barely shot one 3 a game from 1998 to 2003 when he was between 34 and 39 y/o!

When he shot the most 3's in his career (during his physical prime) in 1990 and 1993 he shot 38% and 35% respectively and in the first 3-peat he shot 39% from 3 during the playoffs capping it of with 4 attempts in the 1993 playoffs (highest with the original line).

For a guy that NEVER PRACTICED 3 pointers because he felt it would take away from his game and rightly so (a lesson the present soft 3 point chucking league could definitely take to heart) he delivered when it mattered and defenses still had to respect him out there even though his game was attacking the rim and killing the mid range and teams concentrated on packing the paint against him as the main defensive strategy.

Here's the man himself talking about it and showing his range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzbrBUFB4Y&t=427s

LOL, the dude was more exciting in his LEAST PRACTICED AND HERALDED aspect of the game than Stephie Curry is at basically ALL HE PRACTICES AND REVOLVES his game around. Unreal!

Jordan's hang time on his jumpers is still unmatched EVEN TO THIS DAY of supposed "superhuman" athletes. Hell he could still get it off against Kobe, Carter, McGrady and Artest when he's knees were gone at 39 y/o!!!

:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Andgar is straight up DESTROYING these idiots :oldlol:

But but but Bran would be a GAWD amongst those 6'4 unathletic nerds!!

They have no idea what to respond with so they're desperately deflecting

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Most all time greats would be great in any era. We are talking about top 5 all time players here. Rules change. The players change. But I think any of them would have dominated had their eras been transposed.

Jordan against no handchecking would have feasted. Lebron would have overwhelmed players in the 70s with his athleticism. Kareem,Shaq, and Hakeem would have had a field day against today's centers. Harden would have been really tricky to play against in the late 80s.

[Phoenix]

6'1 Jason Kidd. :rolleyes:

[Showtime80']

I agree with most of that Feeny but guys like Harden, Curry, Lillard or Westrbrick would want NO PART of the late 80's-early 90's NBA.

There was NO SPACING, hand checking, hard fouls without extreme penalties, congested paints, only 2 shots on 3 pointer fouls (this last one is an underrated big change) etc...

Here's Steve Kerr talking about how the league altered the rules to help players like Steph Curry and Steve Nash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoD9UCBgcs

[Mr Feeny]

I agree with most of that Feeny but guys like Harden, Curry, Lillard or Westrbrick would want NO PART of the late 80's-early 90's NBA.

There was NO SPACING, hand checking, hard fouls without extreme penalties, congested paints, only 2 shots on 3 pointer fouls (this last one is an underrated big change) etc...

Here's Steve Kerr talking about how the league altered the rules to help players like Steph Curry and Steve Nash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoD9UCBgcs

True insomuch as how the present rules favor offensive players, especially ones who dont prefer physicality. But Steph is shooting from 40 feet. He wouldn't be shooting as well if he were being hand checked but he wouldn't turn into a scrub, either.

Harden, I agree. That's why I mentioned the 80s (and I was mainly talking about the early Nuggets and Pistons pre-Jordan rules type of game. Run and gun, which would suit him). Obviously, some of the rules were rough on perimeter players, which is why games were finishing with low scores and it turned into a battle of attrition. So players would rather not play in those environments.

[Phoenix]

If you simply took Harden as is and put him into 2019, defenders can play up on him alot closer and be more physical, which doesn't give him the room to do this kind of thing unimpeded as the feature of his offensive skillset....

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MarriedReasonableBluebreastedkookaburra-size_restricted.gif

In 2019 the entire defense is spread out to the 3 point line, meaning once he dribbles the air out of the ball, stalls the offense, he can then waltz to the rim unchallenged at the basket, or dribble dribble into one of his patented hop skip and a jump stepbacks. In the 90's with packed paints( again taking him as the player he is), he would be even more reliant on the 3 because he doesn't have the speed or athleticism to jump over the defense, rise above his defender( or defenders because there would be multiple ones in that 15-18 range closing in on him) for good mid-range jumpshots, or convert high difficulty layups just out of the reach of the 7 footer at the rim. Nor does he have much of an off-ball game to speak of. He's either shooting a 3 or at the rim, no in-between game like a KD or Kawhi, and that's why his playoff performances are rarely better( or even par) compared to what he does during the season.

Harden would be good in the 90's, but he'd be putting more along the lines of prime Mitch Richmond numbers or maybe 89-92 Drexler type numbers at his peak( but I suspect more the former).

[Mr Feeny]

6'1 Jason Kidd. :rolleyes:

I think he is 6"4. Payton's height. He obviously isnt anywhere near as good as Gary was, defensively. But he was still a great defender. They used to put him on McGrady, Kobe, and most dominant perimeter players, at that time.

Curiously, I remember Richard Jefferson guarding Jordan when the Nets played the Wizards back then. I'm not sure why they didnt try Kidd on him. Maybe a matchup issue they preferred.

[Phoenix]

I think he is 6"4. Payton's height. He obviously isnt anywhere near as good as Gary was, defensively. But he was still a great defender. They used to put him on McGrady, Kobe, and most dominant perimeter players, at that time.

Curiously, I remember Richard Jefferson guarding Jordan when the Nets played the Wizards back then. I'm not sure why they didnt try Kidd on him. Maybe a matchup issue they preferred.

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic because of the morons who troll that Payton is 6'1 in an attempt to say that MJ was guarded well by a 'short' player. You know, the typical ISH stupidity that height is the penultimate factor of being a great defender.

Payton and Kidd were both listed at 6'4.

[Mr Feeny]

If you simply took Harden as is and put him into 2019, defenders can play up on him alot closer and be more physical, which doesn't give him the room to do this kind of thing unimpeded as the feature of his offensive skillset....

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MarriedReasonableBluebreastedkookaburra-size_restricted.gif

In 2019 the entire defense is spread out to the 3 point line, meaning once he dribbles the air out of the ball, stalls the offense, he can then waltz to the rim unchallenged at the basket, or dribble dribble into one of his patented hop skip and a jump stepbacks. In the 90's with packed paints( again taking him as the player he is), he would be even more reliant on the 3 because he doesn't have the speed or athleticism to jump over the defense, rise above his defender( or defenders because there would be multiple ones in that 15-18 range closing in on him) for good mid-range jumpshots, or convert high difficulty layups just out of the reach of the 7 footer at the rim. Nor does he have much of an off-ball game to speak of. He's either shooting a 3 or at the rim, no in-between game like a KD or Kawhi, and that's why his playoff performances are rarely better( or even par) compared to what he does during the season.

Harden would be good in the 90's, but he'd be putting more along the lines of prime Mitch Richmond numbers or maybe 89-92 Drexler type numbers at his peak( but I suspect more the former).

Yeah, Harden is the tricky one because he doesnt exactly have the quickest first step you'd find. If you're allowed to hand check him,I wonder how he would fair. It would have to be midrange shots and threes. And since his strength isnt the midrange game and the threat of driving is reduced, he would possibly have to taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3. He might still make them, but without the threat to drive, you could get even closer and that might affect his efficiency.

Someone like Dwyane Wade is more interesting in my opinion. Even though he wasnt the shooter that Harden and Curry are, he was so quick that is still think he would have shredded double teams without much trouble.

[Mr Feeny]

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic because of the morons who troll that Payton is 6'1 in an attempt to say that MJ was guarded well by a 'short' player. You know, the typical ISH stupidity that height is the penultimate factor of being a great defender.

Payton and Kidd were both listed at 6'4.

There you go. Kids who don't know who Payton is and have to Google him. Why even bother?

[Phoenix]

Yeah, Harden is the tricky one because he doesnt exactly have the quickest first step you'd find. If you're allowed to hand check him,I wonder how he would fair. It would have to be midrange shots and threes. And since his strength isnt the midrange game and the threat of driving is reduced, he would possibly have to taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3. He might still make them, but without the threat to drive, you could get even closer and that might affect his efficiency.

Someone like Dwyane Wade is more interesting in my opinion. Even though he wasnt the shooter that Harden and Curry are, he was so quick that is still think he would have shredded double teams without much trouble.

Exactly, the threat of his 3pointer sets up the drive, take away the drive by packing the paints and you're forcing him more to the perimeter without a slashing game to diversify his attack. Nor is he getting the same ticky tack foul calls.

Wade would have transferred to the 90's comfortably. His makeup of great speed, first step, that herky jerky change of pace, and ability to finish strongly at the rim with creativity would have served him better than Harden's style. He would have needed a consistent mid-range shot, like 2006 or 2009 form, some years he seemed to be better at it than others for some reason. But like healthy 2006-2011 Wade? Comfortably a top flight player in the 90's. As far as off-guards go it would have been MJ than him, with Drexler, Miller, Richmond afterwards.


There you go. Kids who don't know who Payton is and have to Google him. Why even bother?

Lol good question, you know how it is. You're having a decent discussion and somehow get sucked into the stupidity.

[pauk]

"*insert random name* destroys Lebron defensively":

Video showing some plays where the *insert random name* guy is being on a Island getting actually destroyed defensively (just clearly would not be able to stop Lebron 1on1 whatsoever) but getting bailed out by team/help defense causing Lebron into bad decisions/shots/passes etc....

Just the fact that Lebron was that passive / defering so much that series... its more accurate to say "Lebron shut Lebron down" instead....

[Nikola_]

"*insert random name* destroys Lebron defensively":

Video showing some plays where the *insert random name* guy is being on a Island getting actually destroyed defensively (just clearly would not be able to stop Lebron 1on1 whatsoever) but getting bailed out by team/help defense causing Lebron into bad decisions/shots/passes etc....

Just the fact that Lebron was that passive / defering so much that series... its more accurate to say "Lebron shut Lebron down" instead....

nvm.

[TheCorporation]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

mettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

How the hell did he have all these weak ass defensive assignments but still never had a single Championship run with a defensive rating below 101?

:lol It just doesnt make any damm sense

[Haymaker]

Put some respect on Kidd's name. He's an ATG and 9 time All-NBA defender.

This. OP also forgot Kidd's excellent defense on both Wade and Kobe during that Playoffs run.

[Haymaker]

Jordan's 3PT% after the league decided to move the 3 back to its original spot.

24%
19%
29%

YIKES

The 3 was not used as much back then. :rolleyes:
Check the 3pt % of the Dream Team roster.

[andgar923]

I tried to make several points with this thread, some have gone over people's heads (on both sides).

1. Size isn't always a factor when playing defense. Beverly was putting the clamps down on KD who is 10 feet taller.

2. Athleticism isn't always a factor either. Kidd was never a great athlete, he was fast on the open court but he wasn't that quick, didn't have quick or much jumping ability, didn't have lighting elite reflexes. And what some people are forgetting is that Kidd was old in this video. He wasn't prime Kidd who had 'some' athleticism, he was a mummy out there. And sure, he defended other top scorers such as Kobe. Yet it speaks on how 'IQ' and fundamentals matter. Knowing angles, knowing the spaces around the court, knowing the offensive player's moves and more importantly wanting to play defense.

3. Any player can be a good defender if they have the IQ and determination. I've seen old man Dan Majerle play better defense as a Suns player than Jason Richardson (slam dunk champ) and a ton of other superior athletes. One of the biggest prime Wade stoppers was Heinrich. Yup, go watch the games, he'd give him fits every matchup. A slow footed unathletic white dude with goggles did a better job at defending super lighting crossover prime Wade than much more athletic players.

4. Yeah, I'll go there.... Bron is a very limited offensive player. He needs to be single covered with space in order to score. And even then he's not very effective at doing that (check his finals averages).

But f*ck it, posting Horny guarding MJ gets LOLZ.

I can almost guarantee that Horny and the Jazz will force Bron into shooting 41% from he field.

Horny was a tough hard nosed player (and I don't mean that in the 'cause he's a white guy defender' sense. But in a GP and Beverly sense) that didn't back down and went hard. He had a high IQ and knew how to use angles which also meant his teammates.

MJ wasn't guarded one on one by Horny. Horny's job was to make MJ work on both ends. He'd run MJ into hard picks on one end, and keep him from getting the ball. If MJ did get the ball Horny was tasked in forcing MJ far from the rim and into the help defense. Horny didn't make mistakes on defense, MJ just made every defender look bad. Seriously, have people seen some of the shots he's had to take over Jeff? Contested leaning off balanced fadeaways at times, quick rushed shots at other moments. MJ simply made everyone that guarded him look bad. Do we make fun of Kendall Gill for getting shitted on by MJ? Gill is a legit great athlete, yet MJ made him his b*tch. MJ would have an easier time vs athletic defenders than people like Jeff that would minimize his moves and play a chess game with MJ instead of a foot race.

Go ahead, there's games online. MJ would get doubled or tripled almost every other possession when he touched the ball.

We see Bron rarely get doubled in the vid I posted and is made to shoot awkward bad shots on 6'4 OLD MAN Kidd.

Meanwhile.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsQtYJC3mWo

Vs a younger Kidd, Martin, Jefferson, Kittles, Marshall all good defenders.

The Nets were 1st in their Division
The Nets were THE BEST defensive team in the league

Lost in the NBA Finals to the Spurs.

But let's ignore all of this and just LOL at Hornacek pics.

[scuzzy]

The 3 was not used as much back then. :rolleyes:
Check the 3pt % of the Dream Team roster.
When they played against college kids in the 92 olympics with a closer 3pt line?


yikes

[Bosnian Sajo]

OP is 5'8" calling a 6'4" dude a midget.....lmfao.

[NBAGOAT]

If you simply took Harden as is and put him into 2019, defenders can play up on him alot closer and be more physical, which doesn't give him the room to do this kind of thing unimpeded as the feature of his offensive skillset....

In 2019 the entire defense is spread out to the 3 point line, meaning once he dribbles the air out of the ball, stalls the offense, he can then waltz to the rim unchallenged at the basket, or dribble dribble into one of his patented hop skip and a jump stepbacks. In the 90's with packed paints( again taking him as the player he is), he would be even more reliant on the 3 because he doesn't have the speed or athleticism to jump over the defense, rise above his defender( or defenders because there would be multiple ones in that 15-18 range closing in on him) for good mid-range jumpshots, or convert high difficulty layups just out of the reach of the 7 footer at the rim. Nor does he have much of an off-ball game to speak of. He's either shooting a 3 or at the rim, no in-between game like a KD or Kawhi, and that's why his playoff performances are rarely better( or even par) compared to what he does during the season.

Harden would be good in the 90's, but he'd be putting more along the lines of prime Mitch Richmond numbers or maybe 89-92 Drexler type numbers at his peak( but I suspect more the former).


people underestimate how ridiculous harden is at making contested 3's. It's in the 33% range. I doubt defenses are super focused on taking away his 3 in the 80s or 90s it's just how they defended. can always get spot ups created by other talented guys too. On the flip side, growing up in that era means ofc he's taking a lot more midrange shots. the dude has a fadeaway game actually and can always use the stepback too.

Dude is known for dribbling the air out of the ball now but as recently as 2 years ago, he was playing in a fast paced more typical dantoni offense. Transition pullups nice playmaking in transition etc enough to work in the late 80s early 90s.

He's going get foul calls too at a good rate. Reggie miller had fantastic free throw rates with his antics, harden would do even better with how much he drives. the rip through is a foul ietc. I doubt he puts up like 35 or even over 30 most years but he's the 2nd best sg of the era. he's better than richmond for sure. I like drexler a lot but he's likely better than drexler too. Drexler is a meh halfcourt scorer who benefited highly from por's pace. The main edge he has over harden in the halfcourt is oreb lol.

[Phoenix]

people underestimate how ridiculous harden is at making contested 3's. It's in the 33% range. I doubt defenses are super focused on taking away his 3 in the 80s or 90s it's just how they defended. can always get spot ups created by other talented guys too. On the flip side, growing up in that era means ofc he's taking a lot more midrange shots. the dude has a fadeaway game actually and can always use the stepback too.

Dude is known for dribbling the air out of the ball now but as recently as 2 years ago, he was playing in a fast paced more typical dantoni offense. Transition pullups nice playmaking in transition etc enough to work in the late 80s early 90s.

He's going get foul calls too at a good rate. Reggie miller had fantastic free throw rates with his antics, harden would do even better with how much he drives. the rip through is a foul ietc. I doubt he puts up like 35 or even over 30 most years but he's the 2nd best sg of the era. he's better than richmond for sure. I like drexler a lot but he's likely better than drexler too. Drexler is a meh halfcourt scorer who benefited highly from por's pace. The main edge he has over harden in the halfcourt is oreb lol.

His game would definitely be different, but it's speculation as to at what level. We know he would be taking less 3's due to the era. He doesn't have overpowering athleticism, frankly his speed is rather pedestrian, so he would struggle in the midrange against packed in defenses, especially against the more physically imposing defensive teams. Reggie wasn't as good a slasher but he was a better shooter whose game would have adapted perfectly to 2019. Where he would compare to Drexler I don't know, but Clyde was good for 27/7/6 at his peak. I wouldn't expect Harden to exceed those numbers.

[andgar923]

His game would definitely be different, but it's speculation as to at what level. We know he would be taking less 3's due to the era. He doesn't have overpowering athleticism, frankly his speed is rather pedestrian, so he would struggle in the midrange against packed in defenses, especially against the more physically imposing defensive teams. Reggie wasn't as good a slasher but he was a better shooter whose game would have adapted perfectly to 2019. Where he would compare to Drexler I don't know, but Clyde was good for 27/7/6 at his peak. I wouldn't expect Harden to exceed those numbers.

Harden doesn't come remotely close to moving without the ball like Miller, they're in different stratospheres.

Im sure if you gave Miller the same type of defense and defensive pressure he'd be slashing almost as good as Harden. Miller has a quicker 1st step and can read the defense. Miller also a better 3point stance face up game. Harden tends to dribble too much whereas Miller gives jab step fake and either pull up or drive all in an instant.

I think Harden would be more like the microwave had he grown up in that era. If we transposed him as is to the 80-90s he'd be forcing even more shots and taken outta the game by most coaches. Although I think he'd be a good PG in any era.

[Phoenix]

Harden doesn't come remotely close to moving without the ball like Miller, they're in different stratospheres.

Im sure if you gave Miller the same type of defense and defensive pressure he'd be slashing almost as good as Harden. Miller has a quicker 1st step and can read the defense. Miller also a better 3point stance face up game. Harden tends to dribble too much whereas Miller gives jab step fake and either pull up or drive all in an instant.

I think Harden would be more like the microwave had he grown up in that era. If we transposed him as is to the 80-90s he'd be forcing even more shots and taken outta the game by most coaches. Although I think he'd be a good PG in any era.

That's a point I made in my initial post, he really has no off-ball game to speak of.

[andgar923]

That's a point I made in my initial post, he really has no off-ball game to speak of.
missed it, my bad.

[NBAGOAT]

His game would definitely be different, but it's speculation as to at what level. We know he would be taking less 3's due to the era. He doesn't have overpowering athleticism, frankly his speed is rather pedestrian, so he would struggle in the midrange against packed in defenses, especially against the more physically imposing defensive teams. Reggie wasn't as good a slasher but he was a better shooter whose game would have adapted perfectly to 2019. Where he would compare to Drexler I don't know, but Clyde was good for 27/7/6 at his peak. I wouldn't expect Harden to exceed those numbers.

well i only brought up reggie as a foul drawing point since some have said harden wouldnt draw nearly as many fouls. Physical play also lead to more fouls calls and is what harden exploits with tricks(ft rates are higher in the 90s) There's not too much point to comparing them as players.

I think you're underrating his first step and contested shot making. like 40-45% from midrange is easily conceivable. He often blows by his initial defender. Harden's just quite a bit better halfcourt scorer than clyde imo and capable of playing in transition.

I dont disagree 27/7/6 sounds reasonable for a statline but harden's going be like 2-3% more efficient imo so like in the 57-59ts% range.

[Phoenix]

missed it, my bad.

No worries, was just pointing that out to say we're in agreement there.

[Manny98]

Didn't MJ get locked up by 4"10 Mugsey Bouges that one time :oldlol:

[Gus Hemmingway]

Kidd became a 90's all-star in only his 2nd year on 16.6ppg, 38%fg



let that sink in :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

well i only brought up reggie as a foul drawing point since some have said harden wouldnt draw nearly as many fouls. Physical play also lead to more fouls calls and is what harden exploits with tricks(ft rates are higher in the 90s) There's not too much point to comparing them as players.

I think you're underrating his first step and contested shot making. like 40-45% from midrange is easily conceivable. He often blows by his initial defender. Harden's just quite a bit better halfcourt scorer than clyde imo and capable of playing in transition.

I dont disagree 27/7/6 sounds reasonable for a statline but harden's going be like 2-3% more efficient imo so like in the 57-59ts% range.

I think I've seen too many players with great first steps to be impressed by his. As I said in my original post, in order to separate himself from the defense without alot of iso-dribbling and against handchecking, he would need a better first step than he has. Hence why I say someone like D-Wade would translate to the 90's better than Harden would. You also have to consider volume when coming up with a percentage. Maybe he's a 43-45% percent midrange shooter( for the sake of argument) but on what attempts? At one point MJ was shooting something like 49% on 1300 midrange shots, it worked out to about 15 a game. That's insane volume and efficiency for a shot that the defense of the era was designed to neutralize.

And as stated, not much of an off-ball game in his repertoire. He's basically a iso-centric on-ball scorer with a skillset that is very much tailored for this era. I don't think he translates to 25 years ago as well, at the very least he wouldn't be a top ten player like he's considered now. In the 90's, after MJ most of the best players in the league were bigs/PFs, Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Barkley, Ewing, Malone etc etc. I don't see Harden being in that mix.

[NBAGOAT]

I think I've seen too many players with great first steps to be impressed by his. As I said in my original post, in order to separate himself from the defense without alot of iso-dribbling and against handchecking, he would need a better first step than he has. Hence why I say someone like D-Wade would translate to the 90's better than Harden would. You also have to consider volume when coming up with a percentage. Maybe he's a 43-45% percent midrange shooter( for the sake of argument) but on what attempts? At one point MJ was shooting something like 49% on 1300 midrange shots, it worked out to about 15 a game. That's insane volume and efficiency for a shot that the defense of the era was designed to neutralize. And as stated, not much of an off-ball game in his repertoire. He's basically a iso-centric on-ball scorer with a skillset that is very much tailored for this era. I don't think he translates to 25 years ago as well, at the very least he wouldn't be a top ten player like he's considered now. In the 90's, after MJ most of the best players in the league were bigs/PFs, Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Ewing, Malone etc etc. I don't see Harden being in that mix.

rough estimate idk 5-7 attempts a game? The first step is still fine for a big volume guy imo. Like wade has one of the best of all time, most shouldnt be held up to those standards. I think being iso centric may not be a weakness in the 90s. Lot of wings/guards played that way. I'll bring up another player as a tangent how much do you think kyrie falls off? He's not that much more athletic than harden but some people think he translates well any year. Harden is a more efficient iso scorer rs or playoffs however surprisingly to many.

I could definitely have him top 10, likely would. there's a dropoff after those guys and some of those centers arent peaking at the same time or all in the league at once. Like harden could be better than mid 90s ewing or rookie shaq.

Let's just take a year say 93 where the centers are all in the league and assume some guys should be over him that should actually be discussed. You have MJ, Hakeem, Barkley, Drob, Malone, shaq, Ewing over harden. Who's next? It's guys like pippen, stockton, alonzo, wilkins, daugherty, price, drexler etc. yea i dont think i'm picking any of them over harden even with a stat reduction. even 25/6/6 on like 55ts% would be enough over almost all of them for most casual nba fans

[andgar923]

Kidd became a 90's all-star in only his 2nd year on 16.6ppg, 38%fg



let that sink in :oldlol:

Yet he still locked up Bron even though he was past his prime.

Let THAT sink in.

[Phoenix]

rough estimate idk 5-7 attempts a game? The first step is still fine for a big volume guy imo. Like wade has one of the best of all time, most shouldnt be held up to those standards. I think being iso centric may not be a weakness in the 90s. Lot of wings/guards played that way. I'll bring up another player as a tangent how much do you think kyrie falls off? He's not that much more athletic than harden but some people think he translates well any year. Harden is a more efficient iso scorer rs or playoffs however surprisingly to many.

I could definitely have him top 10, likely would. there's a dropoff after those guys and some of those centers arent peaking at the same time or all in the league at once. Like harden could be better than mid 90s ewing or rookie shaq.

Let's just take a year say 93 where the centers are all in the league and assume some guys should be over him that should actually be discussed. You have MJ, Hakeem, Barkley, Drob, Malone, shaq, Ewing over harden. Who's next? It's guys like pippen, stockton, alonzo, wilkins, daugherty, price, drexler etc. yea i dont think i'm picking any of them over harden even with a stat reduction. even 25/6/6 on like 55ts% would be enough over almost all of them for most casual nba fans

It's really hard to say, because while I was previously doing the hypothetical of putting 2019 Harden in the 90s, in reality his skillset would be different coming up in that era. He wouldn't be jacking up 13 3's a night, nor would be he be iso-dribbling like he does now, either stylistically or in terms of what the coaches would allow. I don't think the dribble the ball out the rock style translates into that era, it's considered poor 'team' ball now and it would be even moreso back then. There's an argument that stars transcends eras but I'm looking more at Harden's physical attributes and thinking ok, what is this guy going to need to duplicate the same level of play...but with a skillset he would have developed 25 years ago and not transposing 2019 Harden into the era. Those are two different scenarios. I'm not saying the guy wouldn't be an all-star, but there's levels to this as you know.

[Phoenix]

Sorry NBAGOAT, overlooked your question about Kyrie. I look at someone like say, a Chris Jackson, and I think Kyrie translates to that era. I'm not sure who the 90's version of Kyrie would be. Would have to think on that...

[NBAGOAT]

It's really hard to say, because while I was previously doing the hypothetical of putting 2019 Harden in the 90s, in reality his skillset would be different coming up in that era. He wouldn't be jacking up 13 3's a night, nor would be he be iso-dribbling like he does now, either stylistically or in terms of what the coaches would allow. I don't think the dribble the ball out the rock style translates into that era, it's considered poor 'team' ball now and it would be even moreso back then. There's an argument that stars transcends eras but I'm looking more at Harden's physical attributes and thinking ok, what is this guy going to need to duplicate the same level of play...but with a skillset he would have developed 25 years ago and not transposing 2019 Harden into the era. Those are two different scenarios.

i agree for the most part. dribbling in place that long is uncommon but i have seen bigs and guards who will dribble quite a bit in the post just as a setup for their shot. It's not quick hitting at all honestly.

I just think harden is capable of leading fast breaks too which is valuable for the early 90s and good spot up shooting even if it's more from midrange has value and can get you a few buckets a game. You just need some other talent for the 2nd to happen.

Last two years are extreme with the isos even for him. Even mchale years, hou was running a lot. I seriously believe they went to the iso style specifically to counter gs's switching defense and pace because transition is where gs really killed people and ofc it helped that harden and paul last year were really good at it.

Edit: i brought up kyrie since he even though fans love his game a lot more hes got some similar characteristics. Great contested jump shooter, not in upper echelon as athletie or best first step but makes up for it with craftiness, skill and touch to score at the rim pretty well. I think chris jackson might be underselling him however.

[Phoenix]

i agree for the most part. dribbling in place that long is uncommon but i have seen bigs and guards who will dribble quite a bit in the post just as a setup for their shot. It's not quick hitting at all honestly.

I just think harden is capable of leading fast breaks too which is valuable for the early 90s and good spot up shooting even if it's more from midrange has value can get you a few buckets a game. You just need some other talent for the 2nd to happen.

Last two years are extreme with the isos even for him. Even mchale years, hou was running a lot. I seriously believe they went to the iso style specifically to counter gs's switching defense and pace because transition is where gs really killed people and ofc it helped that harden and paul last year were really good at it.

I think if you simply put Harden 2019 back then, that iso-dribble style gives the defense way too much time to set-up, create a wall, and make him beat you from outside. You had your nifty handling guards back then like your Kevin Johnson/Tim Hardaway types, hell look at what Isiah was doing in the 80's, but the ball still moved better on their teams. The 2019 threat of the 3ball and shooters on the wings sets up his drives in spaced out courts nowadays. That part of his game would require the most modification.

I think for the most part he'd be fine, but I feel he would have similar issues under-performing in the playoffs( relative to his season play). If he's in the west that's more a run and gun style, but I can see him struggling against a team like the Knicks. MJ had his struggles with that team and his arsenal was as equipped as anyone's to attack their defense. You stick someone like Starks on Harden, who would be a good physical matchup, and put up a wall behind him with the likes of Mason, Oakley, long-armed Charles Smith and Ewing protecting the rim. Throw X-man in there to rough him up a bit. Then you had aggressive defenders like Greg Anthony or someone like Derek Harper, a player few people would remember nowadays. I can see them giving Harden alot of trouble.

Good discussion BTW....

[NBAGOAT]

I think if you simply put Harden 2019 back then, that iso-dribble style gives the defense way too much time to set-up, create a wall, and make him beat you from outside. You had your nifty handling guards back then like your Kevin Johnson/Tim Hardaway types, hell look at what Isiah was doing in the 80's, but the ball still moved better on their teams. The 2019 threat of the 3ball and shooters on the wings sets up his drives in spaced out courts nowadays. That part of his game would require the most modification.

I think for the most part he'd be fine, but I feel he would have similar issues under-performing in the playoffs( relative to his season play). If he's in the west that's more a run and gun style, but I can see him struggling against a team like the Knicks. MJ had his struggles with that team and his arsenal was as equipped as anyone's to attack their defense. You stick someone like Starks on Harden, who would be a good physical matchup, and put up a wall behind him with the likes of Mason, Oakley, long-armed Charles Smith and Ewing protecting the rim. Throw X-man in there to rough him up a bit. Then you had aggressive defenders like Greg Anthony or someone like Derek Harper, a player few people would remember nowadays. I can see them giving Harden alot of trouble.

Good discussion BTW....

oh i dont like his chances of playing too well vs the knicks haha. Since i am defending him this thread however, i'll say he can prop up his like 37% shooting with some fts lol. The knicks defense one "flaw" even we can even call it one because it was by design was fouling a lot.

[Manny98]

Harden is one of the greatest isolation scorers the league has ever seen, he would dominate in any era

[Elosha]

The Beast! LOLOLOL

The obvious difference is that Jordan destroyed these guys. While LeBron got his ass handed to him by Jason Kidd, Barrea, and Jason Terry. Seriously, how many ways can the Simon alts lose?? You guys are such gluttons for punishment.

[Elosha]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The obvious difference is that Jordan destroyed Hornacek, Byron Russel, and anyone else the Jazz could put on him, including tons of double teams. AND WON. Whereas LeBron got his ass handed to him by Jason Kidd, Barrea, and Jason Terry. AND LOST. Seriously, how many ways can the Simon alts lose?? You guys are such gluttons for punishment.

[Elosha]

https://media.giphy.com/media/S8fBIlVRHSkfqp3whG/giphy.gif

You do realize Jordan scored 40+ points this playoff game right? You wouldn't just be pulling some random 5 second clip to make a point that's so easy to destroy? Idiot. :facepalm :rolleyes:

[SpaceJam]

You do realize Jordan scored 40+ points this playoff game right? You wouldn't just be pulling some random 5 second clip to make a point that's so easy to destroy? Idiot. :facepalm :rolleyes:

Ahh that's pretty interesting....like cherry picking one Bron gif over and over again doesn't happen here right

[Mr Feeny]

Ahh that's pretty interesting....like cherry picking one Bron gif over and over again doesn't happen here right

If you think that's stupid, then why do this?

[SpaceJam]

If you think that's stupid, then why do this?

I'm in it for the memes

[Elosha]

Ahh that's pretty interesting....like cherry picking one Bron gif over and over again doesn't happen here right

Again, you show your lack of discernment. When someone shows one (and to actually there are probably dozens on ISH) of clips showing LeBron playing poor defense or flopping, or traveling or stiffarming, it's to support a much broader point, which is THESE THINGS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME WITH LEBRON.

Whereas you post this 5 second clip to imply that Muggsy Bogues could contain Jordan when in fact Jordan routinely and easily scored on Bogues, just as he routinely and easily scored on practically every player who ever guarded him for any significant amount of time throughout his career. So your point with this clip is ludicrous, while people who make posts showing Lebron's mistakes, have - to a degree - a valid point.

There is danger in relying on one or two clips to make a point about any player, but there's far more evidence of LeBron's flaws than the absurd claim that Jordan was significantly bothered by small defenders -- or any defenders at all.

[GimmeThat]

in comparison to boxing, the goal isn't to fight forever, it's to have the fight to end all fights

[eliteballer]

:wtf:

[eliteballer]

:eek:

[scuzzy]

https://media.giphy.com/media/S8fBIlVRHSkfqp3whG/giphy.gif
:roll:

[sportjames23]

Basically all but shuts him down. Had a hard time driving on him, had a hard time getting position, had a hard time getting open looks. The 6'8 physical beast had a hard time getting into a rhythm forced to pass often even though he had the age and physical advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNG36cGl8J8&list=PLl0ny9_3DLnHSOMlAy-TGzqbWxJF3o9ja&index=2

Do you want more?

Oh... there be more.

Physical beast was basically a shell of himself forced to stand on the corner and give up the ball.

Again, giving up the ball is different than initiating the offence and creating for his teammates. Most of these possessions were simply the beast giving up the pill cause he well.... couldn't really do much aside from chuck.

https://i.ibb.co/5KdRR1C/giphy.gif

[Mr Feeny]

Kidd was short but he was a great defender. Jj Barea was the crazy scenario. Nobody expected that guy to give lebron fits.

[eliteballer]

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/jason-kidd-of-the-dallas-mavericks-consols-lebron-james-of-the-miami-picture-id115951134

LeRoid James.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you think that's stupid, then why do this?


Kidd was short but he was a great defender. Jj Barea was the crazy scenario. Nobody expected that guy to give lebron fits.


ahh yes

[FKAri]

Kidd was short but he was a great defender. Jj Barea was the crazy scenario. Nobody expected that guy to give lebron fits.
Got any youtube clips of JJ Barea giving Lebron fits? I don't remember this happening.

[egokiller]

You are forgetting that lebron only has 2 of his FMVP's because he was bailed out by Kryie and Allen. He had nothing to do with those plays that won his team the game. So you put him in the 90's and he goes 1/9 with 1 FMVP. The odds of him getting bailed out twice are almost nil to begin with. If he can't win in this weak era with easy trips to the finals, with him always conserving 90% of his energy for offense he sure as hell isn't winning in the 90s when teams were actually allowed to play defense.

Don't give me this good in any era shit. :oldlol:

He's basically 1/9 in this weak shit era for ffs. :no:

[BarberSchool]

If you recall, Dallas entire squad got inside LeFraud's head, which is b!tch-weak, unlike his body, which is the best combo of speed/strength/coordination the game has ever seen.

Marion and Stephenson were in his ass all game long.
Chandler, just like Bogut before JR SMith injured his knee, was making LeBron think twice about going all the way to the cup. Despite Lefarud outweighing Chandler by 25lbs:

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer//lk0PYoVSLlcfllGD2IMBaMLRxTk=/1660x934/smart/filters:no_upscale()/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-dmn.s3.amazonaws.com/public/3HHAYFNRZ27EKRWHUG2CLQ2HXY.jpg

Dallas got inside his head. Hard.
It wasn't just solid on ball defense by Kidd.

[BarberSchool]

Also, once the bad fourth quarters started, I think LeBron lost all confidence and begin to shell up and choke every 4th (and especially LATE 4th quarters), as evidenced by the numbers:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron_james_dirk_nowitzki_2011_final_nba.jpg

[BarberSchool]

http://i.imgur.com/bbCVBQG.png

[ArbitraryWater]

If you recall, Dallas entire squad got inside LeFraud's head, which is b!tch-weak, unlike his body, which is the best combo of speed/strength/coordination the game has ever seen.

Mario and Stephenson were in his ass all game long.
Chandler, just like Bogut before JR SMith injured his knee, was making LeBron think twice about going all the way to the cup. Despite Lefarud outweighing Chandler by 25lbs:

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer//lk0PYoVSLlcfllGD2IMBaMLRxTk=/1660x934/smart/filters:no_upscale()/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-dmn.s3.amazonaws.com/public/3HHAYFNRZ27EKRWHUG2CLQ2HXY.jpg

Dirk even had a moment where he insulted LeFraud, and let him know how he felt about "the coughing" episode, where Wade/Bron tried to play minmd games with Dirk about his flu:

http://i.imgur.com/VKo4B.jpg

Dallas got inside his head. Hard.
It wasn't just solid on ball defense by Kidd.

I really didn't expect someone who makes such interesting personality/psychology posts to be dumb enough to get fooled by that edited Dirk/LeBron picture.

In case you didnt notice, its shopped.

Dirk is wearing a Mavs jersey from 08/09

[BarberSchool]

I really didn't expect someone who makes such interesting personality/psychology posts to be dumb enough to get fooled by that edited Dirk/LeBron picture.

In case you didnt notice, its shopped.

Dirk is wearing a Mavs jersey from 08/09I never knew it was shopped LOL

The stats all stand tho.

[ArbitraryWater]

I never knew it was shopped LOL

The stats all stand tho.

nikka making up shit about how Dirk confronted LeBron about the coughing episode :roll: :roll:

[BarberSchool]

nikka making up shit about how Dirk confronted LeBron about the coughing episode :roll: :roll:Yo every barbershop in chicago n!ggas think that pic is real ON GOD yo lol

Dirk did kill son in the 4th quarters tho.
Even if the yelling was shopped than a MF lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Yo every barbershop in chicago n!ggas think that pic is real ON GOD yo lol

Dirk did kill son in the 4th quarters tho.
Even if the yelling was shopped than a MF lol

:roll:

[BarberSchool]

:roll:My homie Gerard (who hates LeFraud more than I do) got into a yelling match a few years back about LeBron in the 4th quarters in 2011, and like 4 different barbers all referenced that pic HAHAHAH

I been thought this shit was real since.
We all did lol

But yo, no one can front, Dirk might as well have yelled in son's ear, he sonned him HARD in 2011.

So did Marion on D, and Jason Terry in pick and rolls.
Hell, Jose Juan Barea gave it to son in the PNR.

[eliteballer]

LeRoid always getting locked down by munchkins.

[Airupthere]

Nevermind the old 6

[Jameerthefear]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/653g2VTY/jordanhornacek-777x442.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
If you put that white guy next to my plumber, I legit would not be able to tell the difference.

[tpols]

jkidd is one of the best perimeter defensive players ever and also one of the stoutest... hes no half pint.

[h0twheels]

If you put that white guy next to my plumber, I legit would not be able to tell the difference.
:oldlol:

[SomeBlackDude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g&t=2s

https://media3.giphy.com/media/7w6qQ5WHOeV3i/giphy.gif

[eliteballer]

:roll:

[expansionera]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


Look at these white guys physiques. There’s no way this is undoctored footage of a Finals series :roll:

[Bronbron23]

Honestly this argument is dumb on both sides. Coaches in general put shorter defenders on both mj and bron because they were quicker and better able to keep them in front of them. Coaches would rather live with a semi contested mid or three then allow either player to penetrate and attack the rim and break down the defense.

[SATAN]

For a guy that NEVER PRACTICED 3 pointers

This is a giant lie. There is so much old footage of MJ practicing his 3 point shot.

[ShawkFactory]

jkidd is one of the best perimeter defensive players ever and also one of the stoutest... hes no half pint.

Yea I’ve never seen him referred to as a 6’4 midget before

[TheGoatest]

damn, only a small clip


you can find multiple whole Finals series sequences of this



https://i.postimg.cc/GtMfgtgF/1124110.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jpd48S/9c60db8214875c80a34310707b5d5aba.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/gjc5K8sc/download-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FsBqjfLm/gettyimages-51744559-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/T35sQRVb/gettyimages-52023406-1024x1024.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


This dude averaged 10.7 points during the 1998 finals, yet he was the SECOND LEADING SCORER on his team. I swear that's not a typo. 10.7 points per game. On .411 shooting, no less. Second leading scorer of a finals team. It's true. Look it up:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-finals-bulls-vs-jazz.html

[BigShotBob]

This dude averaged 10.7 points during the 1998 finals, yet he was the SECOND LEADING SCORER on his team. I swear that's not a typo. 10.7 points per game. On .411 shooting, no less. Second leading scorer of a finals team. It's true. Look it up:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-finals-bulls-vs-jazz.html

Jason Terry

[TheGoatest]

Jason Terry

Yes, I agree. He was a much better player than Jeff Hornacek.

[Round Mound]

Here comes 87 right on schedule with the information without context. Michael barely shot one 3 a game from 1998 to 2003 when he was between 34 and 39 y/o!

When he shot the most 3's in his career (during his physical prime) in 1990 and 1993 he shot 38% and 35% respectively and in the first 3-peat he shot 39% from 3 during the playoffs capping it of with 4 attempts in the 1993 playoffs (highest with the original line).

For a guy that NEVER PRACTICED 3 pointers because he felt it would take away from his game and rightly so (a lesson the present soft 3 point chucking league could definitely take to heart) he delivered when it mattered and defenses still had to respect him out there even though his game was attacking the rim and killing the mid range and teams concentrated on packing the paint against him as the main defensive strategy.

Here's the man himself talking about it and showing his range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzbrBUFB4Y&t=427s

LOL, the dude was more exciting in his LEAST PRACTICED AND HERALDED aspect of the game than Stephie Curry is at basically ALL HE PRACTICES AND REVOLVES his game around. Unreal!

Jordan's hang time on his jumpers is still unmatched EVEN TO THIS DAY of supposed "superhuman" athletes. Hell he could still get it off against Kobe, Carter, McGrady and Artest when he's knees were gone at 39 y/o!!!

This

[Bronbron23]

Yes, I agree. He was a much better player than Jeff Hornacek.

Sucks for horn. If he had of been lucky enough to go up against bron instead of mj he'd have a ring also.