To those who know boxing better than me, did Holyfield deserve the ear biting?

[stalkerforlife]

I see people saying he was headbutting Tyson and Tyson told the ref to stop him, but he refused.

Any boxing experts want to educate me?

Was Holyfield really headbutting him enough to cause that reaction?

[SomeBlackDude]

no. the real deal was boxing tyson's ears off for the second time. iron mike knew it was only a matter of time before a repeat of the first fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_fM3OIbua4) and he wanted out. biting off an ear was the solution he came up with.

evander was just the superior fighter and he proved it over and over again.

even beat young tyson's ass when they were at the olympic trials together.

[Shogon]

no. the real deal was boxing tyson's ears off for the second time. iron mike knew it was only a matter of time before a repeat of the first fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_fM3OIbua4) and he wanted out. biting off an ear was the solution he came up with.

evander was just the superior fighter and he proved it over and over again.

even beat young tyson's ass when they were at the olympic trials together.

Yeah except regardless if Evander was a better fighter or not, he was a dirty fighter, and he was a low blow guy and headbutt guy. He deserved to get his ears bitten.

You can say a lot of things about Tyson but unless he's just a masterfully calculated liar, the dude is generally speaking, an honest individual.

[SomeBlackDude]

Yeah except regardless if Evander was a better fighter or not, he was a dirty fighter, and he was a low blow guy and headbutt guy. He deserved to get his ears bitten.

You can say a lot of things about Tyson but unless he's just a masterfully calculated liar, the dude is generally speaking, an honest individual.

tyson was a mental midget and just about the most overrated athlete ever.

holyfield was easily the better fighter and proved it all levels, amateur (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjM61hVbgNI) and professional.

tyson knew he was going to get blasted into bolivian AGAIN and he wanted out.

had nothing to do with "headbutts" but the superior skill and heart of the real deal.

https://www.thefightcity.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/evander-holyfield-1111.jpg


:bowdown:

[iamgine]

Holyfield's headbutts were quite well known, but plenty of champions have their own dirty tricks so...yeah. Whether headbutts are worthy of ear biting is another matter.

[MrFonzworth]

Blasted into bolivian

[SomeBlackDude]

Blasted into bolivian

tragic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tLrIkPK8kg) :(

[stalkerforlife]

no. the real deal was boxing tyson's ears off for the second time. iron mike knew it was only a matter of time before a repeat of the first fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_fM3OIbua4) and he wanted out. biting off an ear was the solution he came up with.

evander was just the superior fighter and he proved it over and over again.

even beat young tyson's ass when they were at the olympic trials together.

Damn.

Sounds like Tyson folded mentally after realizing Evander was simply better and tougher.

[SomeBlackDude]

Damn.

Sounds like Tyson folded mentally after realizing Evander was simply better and tougher.

teddy atlas breaks down mike tyson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wCZY_vW860)

[stalkerforlife]

teddy atlas breaks down mike tyson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wCZY_vW860)

:roll:

Wow.

Destroyed him.

Shogon is fuming over Tyson being exposed.

He's an entertainer, but not a top 15 boxer, it seems.

[MrFonzworth]

tragic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tLrIkPK8kg) :(
:roll:

[Shogon]

He beat Buster Douglas. Holyfield headbutted, kneed and low blowed him. Again, it doesn't matter if Holyfield was the better fighter, we will never know... because he plays dirty. He goes beyond just boxing. And boxing is the most corrupt sport in the world, so this is how shit goes down sometimes.

It's like James Harden traveling and flopping all over the place and winning games he clearly cheated his way into. Doesn't matter how good Harden actually is... will always be remembered as a cheater and a liar.

He lost to Lewis legit... but we're nearing the end of his career. Then he lost 2 at the end well past it, lol.

Mike Tyson would have probably gone undefeated if Cus had never died while he was active and he never went to prison. But... so much of life comes down to woulda coulda shoulda...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHcbFUTIslI

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWJSvZKVWu0

[stalkerforlife]

He beat Buster Douglas. Holyfield headbutted, kneed and low blowed him. Again, it doesn't matter if Holyfield was the better fighter, we will never know... because he plays dirty. He goes beyond just boxing. And boxing is the most corrupt sport in the world, so this is how shit goes down sometimes.

It's like James Harden traveling and flopping all over the place and winning games he clearly cheated his way into. Doesn't matter how good Harden actually is... will always be remembered as a cheater and a liar.

He lost to Lewis legit... but we're nearing the end of his career. Then he lost 2 at the end well past it, lol.

Mike Tyson would have probably gone undefeated if Cus had never died while he was active and he never went to prison. But... so much of life comes down to woulda coulda shoulda...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHcbFUTIslI

10 count doesn't start until opponent is in his corner.

We just saw it with the Fury fight.

[Shogon]

10 count doesn't start until opponent is in his corner.

We just saw it with the Fury fight.

Fury beat Wilder. More corruption. Anyone who has even the smallest brain can tell you that.

lol.

[SomeBlackDude]

He beat Buster Douglas.

that's how you beat james 'buster' douglas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei3QWwKw47o)

watch the whole tyson-douglas fight. buster plain old whooped his ass, from pillar to post. wasn't like a lucky punch situation. buster outworked him, outboxed him, then finally put him out of his misery.

was a terrible stylistic matchup for mike, and the main reason why he avoided tall, rangy fighters with skill/great jabs in the 90s. riddick woulda done the same to him. lewis eventually did.

he only fought evander because he thought he was washed up. real deal was dealing with life-threatening medical conditions (hole in his heart), suffered a brutal KO loss to bowe. looked like his career was over. he was the 25-1 underdog to mike.

but then the real deal reminded everyone who he was and exposed the real tyson to the world (or re-exposed what buster had revealed).

teddy knew from the beginning what mike really was. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04hQ1dlI8Y)

[stalkerforlife]

Fury beat Wilder. More corruption. Anyone who has even the smallest brain can tell you that.

lol.

Fury won the fight on the score cards.

But if it was a life or death actual fight, Fury would be dead.

[Shogon]

Fury won the fight on the score cards.

But if it was a life or death actual fight, Fury would be dead.

Boxing isn't life or death... it's a sport. lol.

[stalkerforlife]

Boxing isn't life or death... it's a sport. lol.

So why do people call it fighting?

We should stop that.

[SomeBlackDude]

Boxing isn't life or death... it's a sport. lol.

around 500 known deaths have occurred as a result of a sanctioned professional boxing matches.

there have been several high profile matches that resulted in the death of a fighter. sugar ray robinson, who most pundits have as the goat, killed a man in the ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Doyle_(boxer)). pro fights are no longer 15 rounds long because of what happened in the ray mancini-duk koo kim fight.

[stalkerforlife]

around 500 known deaths have occurred as a result of a sanctioned professional boxing matches.

there have been several high profile matches that resulted in the death of a fighter. sugar ray robinson, who most pundits have as the goat, killed a man in the ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Doyle_(boxer)). pro fights are no longer 15 rounds long because of what happened in the ray mancini-duk koo kim fight.

Jimmy Doyle was fighting in Cleveland, since after suffering some heavy knockouts in California that state's boxing commission would not sanction him to fight again. After his death, criminal charges were threatened against Robinson in Cleveland, up to and including manslaughter, though none actually materialized. Robinson's biographer Wil Haygood stated during a September 25, 2010 book festival appearance that Doyle was pushing himself to fight to "buy his mother a house" and after Doyle's death in 1947, Robinson gave the earnings of his next four fights to Doyle's mother, so she could buy that house.

Incredible.

[SomeBlackDude]

Incredible.

craziest part was the night before, robinson had a dream that he killed doyle in the ring. he tried to get the fight called off. but then his managers, a priest, and others convinced him to go on. it was just a dream.

robinson was so racked with guilt after doyle's death that he wanted to retire even though he was in his prime. but he instead donated his earning's to the guy's mom. sad story all around. :(

EDIT:


In his autobiography, Robinson (1921–1989) told the heart-sinking story.

“It was there, the night before the fight, that I had a dream, a premonition,” Robinson wrote.

“In the dream, Jimmy Doyle was in the ring with me. I hit him a few good punches and he was on his back, his blank eyes staring up at me, and I was staring down at him, not knowing what to do, and the referee was moving in to count to ten and Doyle still wasn’t moving a muscle and in the crowd I could hear people yelling, ‘He’s dead, he’s dead,’ and I didn’t know what to do. Then I woke up.”

Robinson didn’t want to fight Doyle, but promoter Larry Atkins convinced him it was pointless to cancel the fight because of a dream.

When Robinson knocked Doyle out, “I stood over him, transfixed, seeing my dream come true, horribly true.”

“I had knocked out guys before, dozens of them. But in those fights, I always had a good feeling, a conquering feeling when I saw them being counted out, maybe because I could see that they weren’t really hurt. But now, with Doyle stretched out and his eyes blank, I had that empty feeling you get when something in your life is really wrong, and all I could think of was the dream.”

“You warned me, God,” Robinson thought. “You told me. Why did I let everybody talk me out of it.”

[stalkerforlife]

craziest part was the night before, robinson had a dream that he killed doyle in the ring. he tried to get the fight called off. but then his managers, a priest, and others convinced him to go on. it was just a dream.

robinson was so racked with guilt after doyle's death that he wanted to retire even though he was in his prime. but he instead donated his earning's to the guy's mom. sad story all around. :(

EDIT:

Poor Doyle only wanted to buy his mom a house.

Had no business being in that fight.

The report I read did say in one round, maybe the 6th, Doyle staggered Robinson.

At that point, Robinson probably felt a need to take his foot off the brakes.

[stalkerforlife]

Poor Doyle only wanted to buy his mom a house.

Had no business being in that fight.

The report I read did say in one round, maybe the 6th, Doyle staggered Robinson.

At that point, Robinson probably felt a need to take his foot off the brakes.

"In 1947, Doyle challenged Sugar Ray Robinson for the World Welterweight Title. Robinson had the advantage in every round except the sixth, when he was staggered twice and hurt."

[GimmeThat]

I thought outside the box, and that's one organ he can't donate now

[dude77]

fk all that .. by then that was a shell of what tyson used to be .. I don't think he even liked boxing at that point but did it out of necessity .. a real test would have been to have seen kevin rooney prime 86-87 peek a boo tyson against holyfield or lewis .. I bet you he wins .. that kid was a pitbull with a killer instinct

[dude77]

But if it was a life or death actual fight, Fury would be dead.

this is not a good assessment .. they both trained for a boxing match, not a to the death street match .. obviously if they were preparing for a to the death street fight, they both would prepare for it much differently

[SomeBlackDude]

fk all that .. by then that was a shell of what tyson used to be ..

lol. tyson was doing then what he had done in the 80s- knocking out no hope tomato cans in 1-3 rounds. even fought litrally some of the same dudes.

meanwhile evander was 4 years older than mike, was coming off a devastating KO loss to bowe (who tyson ducked), and was diagnosed with having a hole in his heart. betting lines in vegas opened with evander being the 25-1 betting underdog.

tyson was much closer to his prime than the real deal was.


a real test would have been to have seen kevin rooney prime 86-87 peek a boo tyson against holyfield or lewis ..

who did tyson fight/beat in his prime? we know he got dominated by james 'buster' douglas when mike was 23 years old. evander, a career crusierweight, would go on to crush buster in 3 rounds.


I bet you he wins .. that kid was a pitbull with a killer instinct

again, who did this pitbull with a killer instinct beat exactly?

dude fought cans in the 80s, when the heavyweight division was an absolute joke. when he got out of prison though, the division was STACKED. you had lewis, bowe, holyfield, old man foreman, moorer, morrison, etc... and tyson ducked all of them with the exception of the real deal and he got ktfo.

[tpols]

that's how you beat james 'buster' douglas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei3QWwKw47o)

watch the whole tyson-douglas fight. buster plain old whooped his ass, from pillar to post. wasn't like a lucky punch situation. buster outworked him, outboxed him, then finally put him out of his misery.

was a terrible stylistic matchup for mike, and the main reason why he avoided tall, rangy fighters with skill/great jabs in the 90s. riddick woulda done the same to him. lewis eventually did.

he only fought evander because he thought he was washed up. real deal was dealing with life-threatening medical conditions (hole in his heart), suffered a brutal KO loss to bowe. looked like his career was over. he was the 25-1 underdog to mike.

but then the real deal reminded everyone who he was and exposed the real tyson to the world (or re-exposed what buster had revealed).

teddy knew from the beginning what mike really was. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04hQ1dlI8Y)


yea, from juicing to the gills for decades...

Tyson was natty... benching 350 at 13. and the realest.

[warriorfan]

Tyson was doing drugs all the time and not training properly. Was surrounded by some of the worst people. When Cus died he lost all of his focus. He served a 3 year stint in prison and pretty much lost his mind. Saying Tyson was in his prime is

[SomeBlackDude]

yea, from juicing to the gills for decades...

Tyson was natty... benching 350 at 13. and the realest.

dude was snorting coke at 11 and used a "whizzer" to pass drug tests as a pro fighter. but he was "natty"...

ok.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/SiEAvGRketKDTdquXy/giphy.gif


Tyson was doing drugs all the time and not training properly. Was surrounded by some of the worst people. When Cus died he lost all of his focus. He served a 3 year stint in prison and pretty much lost his mind. Saying Tyson was in his prime is ‘Dray n Klay’ level trolling. You can do better.

tyson was much closer to his prime than evander was when they fought. this is not disputable.

holyfield wasn't even really a heavyweight.

and how old was tyson when james 'buster' douglas fustigated him?

[tpols]

yea he did drugs to conceal emotional pain... thats actually a detriment physically for boxing. tyson didnt need roids like that he was a prodigy from the start. evander was on some barry bonds shit

[SomeBlackDude]

Holyfield's Heart Has Hole

Doctors discovered another problem with Evander Holyfield's heart today, one day after the former heavyweight champion retired because of a cardiac condition.

A test at Crawford Long Hospital of Emory University revealed a tiny hole in the boxer's heart, said Debra Bloom, a hospital spokeswoman. She said the hole between the two chambers of the heart is not life-threatening but will be monitored.

"This is something he was born with," said Holyfield's physician, Dr. Ronald Stephens.

Holyfield, 31, retired Tuesday after it was determined that he has a noncompliant left ventricle, which prevents sufficient oxygen from being pumped to muscles and tissues.

-1994 (https://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/28/sports/holyfield-s-heart-has-hole.html)


Holyfield win has sports books crying blues

Evander Holyfield, who opened as high as a 25-1 underdog, stopped Tyson on a TKO at 2:23 of the 11th round Saturday night at the MGM Grand Garden.

Bowe KOs Holyfield (12/4/95) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0OJIIU0Um0)

evander was 4 years older, had serious heart problems including a muthaphuckin hole which forced him into early retirement, had suffered a devastating (many thought career-ending) KO loss to a fighter tyson outright ducked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Oo1Pa72uM), and he was the 25-1 betting underdog.

but mike was more past his prime despite doing what he had been doing during his reign in the shit 80s- knocking out the likes of frank bruno in 3 rounds or less.

come on now, dawg.

:rolleyes:
dude was just exposed... just like he had been previously by buster in his prime.

everything else is just nonsense excuses.

[SomeBlackDude]

yea he did drugs to conceal emotional pain...

which is another way of saying he was a mental midget. boxing, any sport at the highest level really, is just as much mental as it is physical. saying a guy can't fight to the best of his abilities because of 'emotional pain' is the same as saying he was never really elite.

buster douglas' mother died 3 weeks before the tyson fight and his son's mom was suffering from a life-threatening kidney ailment. he had the flu the day before the fight.


Douglas faced a number of setbacks, including the death of his mother, Lula Pearl, 23 days before the fight. Additionally, the mother of his son was facing a severe kidney ailment, and he had contracted the flu on the day before the fight

doubt anyone would use that shit as an excuse if iron mike had taken him out in 2 or 3 rounds like all the other tomato cans he victimized during that time.

pretty much every high level fighter came from horrible circumstances and had to overcome them to reach the highest levels of their sport. but it's only tyson who has a laundry list of excuses for his lackluster record and mental crapouts.

[iamgine]

Tyson was a mental midget. No one ever denies this. Not even his biggest supporter. That's why he needed Cus to overcame that hurdle. Mike Tyson the world champion was really a partnership between Tyson and Cus. Kinda like Nash-D'Antoni.

[SomeBlackDude]

Mike Tyson the world champion was really a partnership between Tyson and Cus. Kinda like Nash-D'Antoni.

mike won the championship AFTER cus died.

all of mike's best wins and biggest accomplishments, his 2 week prime... all that happened AFTER cus d'amato died.

at the point that cus was in his corner, mike had only fought no-name journeymen with records as impressive as 3-16, 10-18, 1-0, etc.

cus. no cus. tyson gets ktfo by the elite hws of his era.

dude was an undersized hw with no heart.

[iamgine]

He won with Rooney who essentially was Cus' protege.

[SomeBlackDude]

He won with Rooney who essentially was Cus' protege.

and who did he beat exactly?

give me the top 5 of mike tyson's career wins during the cus/rooney era.

if you ask for ali's top 5, you have foreman, frazier 2x, sonny liston 2x, patterson, norton, shavers, etc

if you ask for lewis, who fought at the same time as tyson, you have klitschko, tua, tyson, holyfield, morrison, etc with a lot of wins against common opponents with tyson.

who did mike beat?

the hw division in the early-mid 90s was as good and deep as it had been since the golden age of the mid 60s-mid/late 70s.

how many of those elite fighters did tyson fight and beat?

:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Boxing isn't life or death... it's a sport. lol.

which exhibits fighting, and optimally who the stronger man in the most extreme situation/circumstance is / would be.

[iamgine]

As we already said, Tyson by himself was a mental midget. That's why he needed Cus to overcame that hurdle.

[SomeBlackDude]

As we already said, Tyson by himself was a mental midget. That's why he needed Cus to overcame that hurdle.

right, as we established- cus d'amato died very early on into mike's pro career. he only fought no name journeymen with terrible records while cus was alive.

why didn't mike fight lewis or bowe or even fat, old foreman during the early-mid 90s when the division was popping?

he only fought evander because it looked like evander was completely washed up. that backfired spectacularly on him.

what the hell does cus d'amato dying in the mid 80s have to do with tyson avoiding all the best fighters of the 90s?

:confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

It's a partnership. It doesn't work without Cus/Rooney. Like Nash-D'Antoni.

[SomeBlackDude]

It's a partnership. It doesn't work without Cus/Rooney. Like Nash-D'Antoni.

again, list tyson's top 5 wins while he was under the cus/rooney regime.

then answer why he avoided the cream of the hw division crop in the 90s when the division was at its strongest since the days of prime ali, foreman, frazier, etc.

do you accept his reason for ducking classmate riddick bowe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Oo1Pa72uM)?

:confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

How about list the HWs who beat Tyson as he became world champion during Cus/Rooney? 90s aren't Cus anymore.

[SomeBlackDude]

How about list the HWs who beat Tyson as he became world champion during Cus/Rooney? 90s aren't Cus anymore.

LOL.

the cop out to end all cop outs.

you don't want to list the names because you know donovan 'razor' ruddock would be #1 :roll:

truth is- tyson was skilled, but never elite. never beat anyone of note. avoided all the best fighters in the division.

every time he fought anyone who was actually a top tier hw, he got ktfo.

even got ktfo in his prime by james 'buster' douglas.

but cus.

:yaohappy:

[iamgine]

Of course, he's a mental midget.

Why else would he get KOed by Buster Douglas.

As I said, it's a partnership.

[SomeBlackDude]

As I said, it's a partnership.

boxers change trainers/teams like the normal person changes shirts. just more excuses for tyson's underwhelming career.

lennox lewis went from pepe correa to emmanuel steward mid career.

for anyone interested in learning more about the second golden age of hw boxing, when tyson outright ducked all the best fighters w/ the exception of his 2 ass whoopings against a past prime holyfield...

a brief chronology of 90s HW boxing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF2jfzBaDWo) :cheers:

[iamgine]

There are also many cases of boxers who changes trainers and they became worse.

[stalkerforlife]

Not going to front, SomeBlackDude seems like a boxing expert.

I'm rolling with him.

Hey back dude, how do you feel about Marciano? I saw that he knocked out an old Joe Louis, but cried like a baby because that was his hero. I also saw that Jersey Joe Walcott was dominating Marciano before Marciano knocked him out.

Is it true Marciano has the best chin ever?

[SomeBlackDude]

There are also many cases of boxers who changes trainers and they became worse.

and some, like lennox lewis- the best hw of his era, becoming better. after changing trainers and having the best runs of their careers.

manny pacquiao changed countries as well as trainers in his mid 20s. after that he became fighter of the decade, winning championships in 8 different divisions.

but let the iron mike excuses roll on. :cheers:


Not going to front, SomeBlackDude seems like a boxing expert.

I'm rolling with him.

Hey back dude, how do you feel about Marciano? I saw that he knocked out an old Joe Louis, but cried like a baby because that was his hero. I also saw that Jersey Joe Walcott was dominating Marciano before Marciano knocked him out.

Is it true Marciano has the best chin ever?

personally was never high on marciano. he's another who never really fought or beat anyone notable.

and no, not the best chin ever.

lamotta, foreman, chuvalo, monzon, margarito, hagler are the names that jump out at me for best chins ever. prob missing some.

[iamgine]

Everyone has different circumstances, which is why some get better and some get worse. We'll never know what would happen if the partnership stayed intact.

[Bawkish]

and some, like lennox lewis- the best hw of his era, becoming better. after changing trainers and having the best runs of their careers.

manny pacquiao changed countries as well as trainers in his mid 20s. after that he became fighter of the decade, winning championships in 8 different divisions.

but let the iron mike excuses roll on. :cheers:



personally was never high on marciano. he's another who never really fought or beat anyone notable.

and no, not the best chin ever.

lamotta, foreman, chuvalo, monzon, margarito, hagler are the names that jump out at me for best chins ever. prob missing some.

Julio Cezar Chavez