Jordan's overall playoff competition was tougher than LeBron's

[superduper]

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 1st round: -0.15
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 1st round: 3.03

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 2nd round: 2.93
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 2nd round: 3.68

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 3rd round: 4.11
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 3rd round: 5.39

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in the finals: 7.75
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in the finals: 6.84

-stolen from LostCause

Discuss :eek:

[stalkerforlife]

Didn't need numbers to tell you that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th

[superduper]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th

Why are you nitpicking specific series that make Bran look better than he is?

Why not stick with the overall ones in the OP that provide not only the most context but also the most sample size?

Why?

[superduper]

Didn't need numbers to tell you that.

Gotta fight retard with retard

[Real14]

I most definitely agree. Facts are facts.

[TheCorporation]

What was Jordan's best Finals win

[TheCorporation]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan


1986 Celtics: 13th

Well that was easy :lol


NEXT

[superduper]

Well that was easy :lol


NEXT

Can you answer my response to that?

///////
Why are you nitpicking specific series that make Bran look better than he is?

Why not stick with the overall ones in the OP that provide not only the most context but also the most sample size?

Why?
///////

Thanks

[superduper]

What was Jordan's best Finals win

So the playoffs are only one series long? What happened to the other three?

[TheCorporation]

So the playoffs are only one series long? What happened to the other three?

What was Jordan's best Finals win

[Vino24]

Why are you nitpicking specific series that make Bran look better than he is?

Why not stick with the overall ones in the OP that provide not only the most context but also the most sample size?

Why?
oh so now its nitpicking with a very specific stat? :lol

[aj1987]

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 1st round: -0.15
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 1st round: 3.03

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 2nd round: 2.93
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 2nd round: 3.68

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 3rd round: 4.11
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 3rd round: 5.39

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in the finals: 7.75
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in the finals: 6.84

-stolen from LostCause

Discuss :eek:
Did you retards just sum up the SRS and divide by 6 for Jordan and do the same for LeBron? How did you guys manage to pass 2nd grade math? :facepalm :facepalm

[superduper]

oh so now its nitpicking with a very specific stat? :lol

$tats

I will await the first serious rebuttal.

Thanks all.

[Real14]

What was Jordan's best Finals win
He have 6 rings right?

[superduper]

Did you retards just sum up the SRS and divide by 6 for Jordan and do the same for LeBron? How did you guys manage to pass 2nd grade math? :facepalm :facepalm

Wtf are you talking about, why would we divide by 6 for both?

Do you not know how to calculate an average?

[Vino24]

$tats

I will await the first serious rebuttal.

Thanks all.
your clock was already cleaned. next thread.

[Ghost1]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: L
2016 Warriors: W*
2015 Warriors: L
2008 Celtics: L
2007 Spurs: L
2014 Spurs: L



:lol :lol

[TheCorporation]

What was Jordan's best Finals win

Still waiting...


Dont be shy now :lol

[superduper]

Still waiting...


Dont be shy now :lol

So the playoffs are only one series long? What happened to the other three?

Please don't deflect and just answer :oldlol:

[Uncle Drew]

Lol, listing Jordan’s first round opposition. Of course he has a higher SRS when he never achieved better than a 3 seed until 1991 or something. :roll:

Essentially praising Jordan for terrible seeding.

[superduper]

:lol :lol

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Vino24]

OP in another thread: "Kyrie hit the biggest shot in NBA history"

gee if that's true then LeBron's competition was the greatest in NBA history.

Op literally cucked himself :roll:

[aj1987]

Wtf are you talking about, why would we divide by 6 for both?

Do you not know how to calculate an average?
Do the same - as in sum up the SRS for all the Finals and divide by the number of Finals series played in.

Jesus. You retards not only suck at 2nd grade math, but you have the comprehension skills of an autistic maggot. :facepalm

Stop posting and embarrassing yourself further, idiot.


Lol, listing Jordan’s first round opposition. Of course he has a higher SRS when he never achieved better than a 3 seed until 1991 or something. :roll:

Essentially praising Jordan for terrible seeding.
Logic and context are completely alien concepts to both Ordan turds and Rapebe turds.

[TheMan]

Still waiting...


Dont be shy now :lol
Actually that's tough, too many to choose from :oldlol:

I mean if MJ only won three, then it would be much easier to choose...

[superduper]

Let's compare Net Efficiency like retards while ignoring the million factors of context and reality!! :lol

People here literally don't know what average is LOLLL I thought that other dude was the only one :facepalm :facepalm

Both that guy and AJ are Bran stans too, coincidence...? :eek:

[TheMan]

Do the same - as in sum up the SRS for all the Finals and divide by the number of Finals series played in.

Jesus. You retards not only suck at 2nd grade math, but you have the comprehension skills of an autistic maggot. :facepalm

Stop posting and embarrassing yourself further, idiot.


Logic and context are completely alien concepts to both Ordan turds and Rapebe turds.
Can you explain how MJ managed to beat 20 teams that won 50+/60+ wins to only 12 for Bran if MJ faced weaker competition? 50+/60+ win teams are tougher to beat than say 30+/40+ win teams, no? Bran has 22 wins vs that mediocre competition, while MJ beat 10 30+/40+ win teams.

Try to keep up, MJ beat better competition...can't write it in crayon...please try your best to explain how MJ faced weaker competition if the teams he beat had more wins than LeBron's...

I'll wait

[aj1987]

Can you explain how MJ managed to beat 20 teams that won 50+/60+ wins to only 12 for Bran if MJ faced weaker competition? 50+/60+ win teams are tougher to beat than say 30+/40+ win teams, no? Bran has 22 wins vs that mediocre competition, while MJ beat 10 30+/40+ win teams.

Try to keep up, MJ beat better competition...can't write it in crayon...please try your best to explain how MJ faced weaker competition if the teams he beat had more wins than LeBron's...

I'll wait
Why is every single dad killer turd this insecure? Did I say LeBron beat better competition? Did I say LeBron is greater than 1-9? :oldlol:

I really can't fathom why FACTS hurt some of y'all deep down.

[superduper]

Not one proper rebuttal to the OP other than some people exposing their insecurities :eek:

[Vino24]

OP in another thread: "Kyrie hit the biggest shot in NBA history"

gee if that's true then LeBron's competition was the greatest in NBA history.

Op literally cucked himself :roll:
op please address this post. How did kyrie hit the biggest shot in nba history if LeBron's competition was worse than Jordan's?

[aj1987]

Not one proper rebuttal to the OP other than some people exposing their insecurities :eek:
Do the same - as in sum up the SRS for all the Finals and divide by the number of Finals series played in. ****ing idiot.

[superduper]

op please address this post. How did kyrie hit the biggest shot in nba history if LeBron's competition was worse than Jordan's?

What does Kyrie's shot have to do with the team he was facing wtf?

God damn you guys are insecure AF right now literally making up interpretations out of thin air

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Vino24]

What does Kyrie's shot have to do with the team he was facing wtf?

God damn you guys are insecure AF right now literally making up interpretations out of thin air

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
why would the shot be considered that IMPRESSIVE when the competition was so mediocre?

[TheCorporation]

Still waiting...


Dont be shy now :lol
The truth is you guys shouldn't be too embarrassed of MJ's rings. Yeah sure, none of them were better than LeBron's but at least MJ won something.

We all know he's number two in everything else might as well keep the trend going

[superduper]

The truth is you guys shouldn't be too embarrassed of MJ's rings. Yeah sure, none of them were better than LeBron's but at least MJ won something.

We all know he's number two in everything else might as well keep the trend going

3 out of the 4 rounds were tougher for MJ.

If anything it has been confirmed that all of Bran's rings are a joke compared to MJ's.

[Vino24]

LeBron can only dream of 5 game series against car mechanics and grocery baggers

[NBAGOAT]

Just give us one srs number overall lol. I feel like these results are common knowledge however. Mj has tougher competition in conference but lebron has tougher in the finals one

[superduper]

LeBron can only dream of 5 game series against car mechanics and grocery baggers

Jordan's playoff competition was straight up tougher than Bran's.

If you are in denial, please refer to the OP.

Boom.

[NBAGOAT]

i'll just do the numbers then since it's not hard with an online mean calculator

Jordan's 1st round srs: 2.77srs over 46 games.

Jordan's 2nd round srs: 3.94srs over 53 games

Jordan's 3rd round srs: 5.50srs over 44 games

Jordan's finals srs: 6.84srs over 35 games

Overall srs(not quite accurate due to rounding errors): 4.59srs over 178 playoff games

Lebron's 1st round srs: 0.10srs over 60 games

Lebron's 2nd round srs: 3.40srs over 69 games

Lebron's 3rd round srs: 3.96srs over 53 games

Lebron's final round srs: 7.99srs over 49 games

Overall srs: 3.64 over 231 games.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

[TheCorporation]

LeBron can only dream of 5 game series against car mechanics and grocery baggers

:lol
And dont forget he faced 2 of the top 10 worst #2 options in Finals history with one of them being #1 worst all time (10.7 ppg Hornacek)

I mean...sheesh

[TheCorporation]

i'll just do the numbers then since it's not hard with an online mean calculator

Jordan's 1st round srs: 2.77srs over 46 games.

Jordan's 2nd round srs: 3.94srs over 53 games

Jordan's 3rd round srs: 5.50srs over 44 games

Jordan's finals srs: 6.84srs over 35 games

Overall srs(not quite accurate due to rounding errors): 4.59srs over 178 playoff games

Lebron's 1st round srs: 0.10srs over 60 games

Lebron's 2nd round srs: 3.40srs over 69 games

Lebron's 3rd round srs: 3.96srs over 53 games

Lebron's final round srs: 7.99srs over 49 games

Overall srs: 3.64 over 231 games.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Are we rewarding MJ for getting lower seeds, thereby forcing him to play tougher opponents in earlier rounds?

[TheCorporation]

Jordan's playoff competition was straight up tougher than Bran's.

If you are in denial, please refer to the OP.

Boom.


Which was Jordan's best Finals win

[Manny98]

LostCause is your source :roll:

You know he's skewing stats to favor MJ

[superduper]

i'll just do the numbers then since it's not hard with an online mean calculator

Jordan's 1st round srs: 2.77srs over 46 games.

Jordan's 2nd round srs: 3.94srs over 53 games

Jordan's 3rd round srs: 5.50srs over 44 games

Jordan's finals srs: 6.84srs over 35 games

Overall srs(not quite accurate due to rounding errors): 4.59srs over 178 playoff games

Lebron's 1st round srs: 0.10srs over 60 games

Lebron's 2nd round srs: 3.40srs over 69 games

Lebron's 3rd round srs: 3.96srs over 53 games

Lebron's final round srs: 7.99srs over 49 games

Overall srs: 3.64 over 231 games.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Boom.

[LostCause]

I didn't make the stats, I just referenced it :confusedshrug:



Lol, listing Jordan’s first round opposition. Of course he has a higher SRS when he never achieved better than a 3 seed until 1991 or something. :roll:

Essentially praising Jordan for terrible seeding.

It really doesn't matter though, even if you go by ONLY the seasons they made the Finals Jordan still has higher averages

Series Won
1st Rd Jordan (1.11) Lebron (-0.05)
2nd Rd Jordan (3.46) Lebron (2.34)
3rd Rd Jordan (5.27) Lebron (3.75)
Finals Jordan (6.84) Lebron (7.83)


Finals Run
1st Rd Jordan (0.01) Lebron (0.05)
2nd Rd Jordan (3.3) Lebron (2.41)
Conf F Jordan (5.25) Lebron (3.75)
Finals Jordan (6.84) Lebron (7.94)

Series Loss
1st Rd Jordan (7.44) Lebron (0)
2nd Rd Jordan (5.95) Lebron (5.43)
3rd Rd Jordan (6.24) Lebron (6.48)
Finals Jordan (0) Lebron (7.99)

It's as I said in the other thread and Goat said here. It's fairly common knowledge Jordan faced stronger competition throughout the playoffs whereas LeBron has faced stronger Finals comp. Not sure why this is controversial

[TheCorporation]

Didn't LeBron face 7 top 30 SRS teams and MJ faced 1


Um...

Bye

[NBAGOAT]

I didn't make the stats, I just referenced it :confusedshrug:




It really doesn't matter though, even if you go by ONLY the seasons they made the Finals Jordan still has higher averages

Series Won
1st Rd Jordan (1.11) Lebron (-0.05)
2nd Rd Jordan (3.46) Lebron (2.34)
3rd Rd Jordan (5.27) Lebron (3.75)
Finals Jordan (6.84) Lebron (7.83)


Finals Run
1st Rd Jordan (0.01) Lebron (0.05)
2nd Rd Jordan (3.3) Lebron (2.41)
Conf F Jordan (5.25) Lebron (3.75)
Finals Jordan (6.84) Lebron (7.94)

Series Loss
1st Rd Jordan (7.44) Lebron (0)
2nd Rd Jordan (5.95) Lebron (5.43)
3rd Rd Jordan (6.24) Lebron (6.48)
Finals Jordan (0) Lebron (7.99)

It's as I said in the other thread and Goat said here. It's fairly common knowledge Jordan faced stronger competition throughout the playoffs whereas LeBron has faced stronger Finals comp. Not sure why this is controversial

Are those cited from same source? They could be slightly wrong again so I could calculate it quickly right now

[Keno]

Do the same - as in sum up the SRS for all the Finals and divide by the number of Finals series played in.

Jesus. You retards not only suck at 2nd grade math, but you have the comprehension skills of an autistic maggot. :facepalm

Stop posting and embarrassing yourself further, idiot.


Logic and context are completely alien concepts to both Ordan turds and Rapebe turds.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

ether.

[3ball]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th


^^^ that's because there were 2 super-teams in the league - the warriors and cavs - the lack of parity creates higher SRS for those super-teams

It's really sad because Lebron's teams were every bit as stacked as the Warriors, but Curry simply gets WAY more out of teammates than LeCancerball... So there's this huge misperception that Lebron's teams were overmatched, when they were infact reduced to spot-up shooters

[Duncan21formvp]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th
That's because these teams beat the shi** out of Lebron. The fact the 2014 Spurs are on this list is a joke.
What about the Orlando Magic in 2009, Dallas Mavericks in 2011 as well?

[NBAGOAT]

That's because these teams beat the shi** out of Lebron. The fact the 2014 Spurs are on this list is a joke.
What about the Orlando Magic in 2009, Dallas Mavericks in 2011 as well?

Srs has nothing to do with a playoff series. In fact the 8srs underrates them because how often pop rested guys

[Elosha]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.

[beastee]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.
:applause: :applause:
Perfectly stated. Eloquent. And without a response. Nice work.

[superduper]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.

ouuuu WEEEEEEE they are gonna stay away from this one :eek:

[Gus Hemmingway]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.


What I got from this is you

[superduper]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]What I got from this is you

[Vino24]

so what you all are saying is that Jordan faced tougher competition despite stats and facts proving otherwise? got it. And Wilt once strangled a lion with his bare hands :oldlol:

[superduper]

so what you all are saying is that Jordan faced tougher competition despite stats and facts proving otherwise? got it. And Wilt once strangled a lion with his bare hands :oldlol:

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 1st round: -0.15
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 1st round: 3.03

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 2nd round: 2.93
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 2nd round: 3.68

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 3rd round: 4.11
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 3rd round: 5.39

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in the finals: 7.75
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in the finals: 6.84

Next?

[Vino24]

73 win team. Nothing even comes close

[superduper]

73 win team. Nothing even comes close

PPG and FG% before Silver decided he cannot and will not let Bran lose?

[Vino24]

LeBron had no all star help that year

[superduper]

LeBron had no all star help that year

You can scream this to yourself until your face is blue and you'll still be retarded.

[Elosha]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]What I got from this is you

[Leviathon1121]

73 win team. Nothing even comes close
If a singular series is enough to paint a very broad conclusion, what can we deduce from Lebron losing to the Mavs? Because that performance is so, so bad, that

[paksat]

this guy bron was such a threat that the mavs slammed JJ on him :roll:

he's the GOAT :bowdown:

[superduper]

this guy bron was such a threat that the mavs slammed JJ on him :roll:

he's the GOAT :bowdown:

Le1-5!!

:roll: :roll:

[Vino24]

[QUOTE=Leviathon1121]If a singular series is enough to paint a very broad conclusion, what can we deduce from Lebron losing to the Mavs? Because that performance is so, so bad, that

[TheMan]

Why is every single dad killer turd this insecure? Did I say LeBron beat better competition? Did I say LeBron is greater than 1-9? :oldlol:

I really can't fathom why FACTS hurt some of y'all deep down.
This is your idea of a retort to a legit question? Just deflecting and throwing personal insults? And you call us the retards :facepalm

Dat lack of self awareness, you and the rest of the garbage LeStans are the main culprits to why ISH is a shithole

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=Leviathon1121]If a singular series is enough to paint a very broad conclusion, what can we deduce from Lebron losing to the Mavs? Because that performance is so, so bad, that

[TheMan]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.
:applause:

Not one LeStan will come with a legit retort.

Just deflecting with b-b-b-but 2016! and claiming LeBron had zero help when perrenial All Star Kyrie Irving had one of the GOAT second option Finals series while wrecking the MVP Curry and on top of that, hitting the GM 7 winning shot on ISO with LeBron standing around looking like he wanted no part of that :roll:

In short, MJ faced better competition to get to the Finals while LeBron's toughest competition were in the Finals...perfectly explains what we all have been saying, he had a cake walk to the Finals year in and year out, but got exposed in the championship round, hence his dismal 3/9 showing...if he truly were the GOAT, he'd be at least 5/9 or 6/9, that would be waaay more respectable than being 3/9, keeping in mind that Ray Allen literally saved his ass from being 2/9 :roll:

Pack your bags LeFggots, this convo is ova!


:hammertime:

[Leviathon1121]

Almost as bad as 2011 Kobe
I

[sdot_thadon]

So in sum, Jordan played in a tougher conference and played overall in tougher playoffs than LeBron. He was 6/6 in the Finals, and played better offense and defense in the Finals overall. LeBron still put up great numbers in his Finals, but is only 3/9 and was noticeably lacking at critical times on offense for many series, and often played less than ideal defense. Likewise, his team often got blown out, which calls into question the difficulty or importance of his overall stats. But, OTOH, LeBron had overall more tougher Final opponents, although Jordan's Finals opponents were also formidable (but going up against the GOAT).

Sure he faced tougher competition overall if you decide to weigh all series equally.....I mean yeah the 1st round is equal in importance to the f'n finals.:lol
As someone else said in this thread a high Srs for the 1st round makes perfect sense when you can make the postseason with 30 wins yourself. Who else would you get to face?

The way I see it Mj faced a tougher road to the finals(without ever appearing to face a worthy opponent in title years) but Lebron faced much tougher challenges for the actual chip.


That's basically it. Both great players without question, but there's not really a strong case that LeBron is a superior playoffs or Finals performer to Jordan. In fact, Jordan is clearly better, both in results, clutch play, and overall stats/impact.
Strongly strongly disagree here. Lebron's playoff resume being in question in any sort of way is dishonest. 2011 happened just like 1989 happened for Mj. Lebron has more playoff game winners than Jordan has, which should end that discussion before it begins. But a step further? He's the absolute best elimination game player to ever live, finals or otherwise. He's had plenty of legendary games and moments in the playoffs just like Mike has. And he's played on a level few if any have when the chips were down. Mj is a great playoff performer unquestionably, but so is Lebron. If there is any separation it damn sure isn't "clearly" but that's just a guy who loves them both as a fan speaking.

[RealSkipBayless]

:applause:

Not one LeStan will come with a legit retort.

Just deflecting with b-b-b-but 2016! and claiming LeBron had zero help when perrenial All Star Kyrie Irving had one of the GOAT second option Finals series while wrecking the MVP Curry and on top of that, hitting the GM 7 winning shot on ISO with LeBron standing around looking like he wanted no part of that :roll:

In short, MJ faced better competition to get to the Finals while LeBron's toughest competition were in the Finals...perfectly explains what we all have been saying, he had a cake walk to the Finals year in and year out, but got exposed in the championship round, hence his dismal 3/9 showing...if he truly were the GOAT, he'd be at least 5/9 or 6/9, that would be waaay more respectable than being 3/9, keeping in mind that Ray Allen literally saved his ass from being 2/9 :roll:

Pack your bags LeFggots, this convo is ova!


:hammertime:
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/lebronblock2.gif

[NBAGOAT]

Sure he faced tougher competition overall if you decide to weigh all series equally.....I mean yeah the 1st round is equal in importance to the f'n finals.:lol
As someone else said in this thread a high Srs for the 1st round makes perfect sense when you can make the postseason with 30 wins yourself. Who else would you get to face?

The way I see it Mj faced a tougher road to the finals(without ever appearing to face a worthy opponent in title years) but Lebron faced much tougher challenges for the actual chip.


Strongly strongly disagree here. Lebron's playoff resume being in question in any sort of way is dishonest. 2011 happened just like 1989 happened for Mj. Lebron has more playoff game winners than Jordan has, which should end that discussion before it begins. But a step further? He's the absolute best elimination game player to ever live, finals or otherwise. He's had plenty of legendary games and moments in the playoffs just like Mike has. And he's played on a level few if any have when the chips were down. Mj is a great playoff performer unquestionably, but so is Lebron. If there is any separation it damn sure isn't "clearly" but that's just a guy who loves them both as a fan speaking.

I mostly agree but feel like there a few title worthy teams sprinkled in the conference. 93 Knicks for one definitely. 96 magic are kind of an asterisk with grant injured but one can argue bulls win in 5 or 6 with him comfortably anyway. I even throw in 98 pacers. Don

[SpaceJam2]

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]What I got from this is you

[SpaceJam2]

[QUOTE=Leviathon1121]If a singular series is enough to paint a very broad conclusion, what can we deduce from Lebron losing to the Mavs? Because that performance is so, so bad, that

[LostCause]

So a Finals loss is "worse" than 3 literal 1st round sweeps? :lol


NEXT

No but those sweeps are better than missing the playoffs 3 times

https://www.thecoli.com/attachments/camby-gif.75/

[Leviathon1121]

So a Finals loss is "worse" than 3 literal 1st round sweeps? :lol


NEXT
His performance was otherworldly abysmal and you know it. If Jordan had any playoff series that even remotely approached how bad Lebron played, you and your alts would have it in 10 different graphics and posted multiple times every single day. But since Lebron is no threat to Jordan

[ImKobe]

So a Finals loss is "worse" than 3 literal 1st round sweeps? :lol


NEXT

3 1st round losses or missing the Playoffs 3 times? Which one do you take?

[And1AllDay]

3 1st round losses or missing the Playoffs 3 times? Which one do you take?
Mike missed the playoffs 3 years too bruh bruh

and on a bball forum board how you didnt know this?

[And1AllDay]

No but those sweeps are better than missing the playoffs 3 times

https://www.thecoli.com/attachments/camby-gif.75/

https://media.giphy.com/media/jGeuf0mcBdh3q/giphy.gif

Mike also missed the playoffs 3 years and also had 3 first round defeats

wow

[ImKobe]

Mike missed the playoffs 3 years too bruh bruh

and on a bball forum board how you didnt know this?

Uhh that's false sir, Jordan only missed the Playoffs twice and that was at age 39/40 when he was just on his retirement tour.

84-98 MJ missed the Playoffs 0 times. Lebron isn't even 35 yet and he's already missed the POs 3x.

[And1AllDay]

Uhh that's false sir, Jordan only missed the Playoffs twice and that was at age 39/40 when he was just on his retirement tour.

84-98 MJ missed the Playoffs 0 times. Lebron isn't even 35 yet and he's already missed the POs 3x.

Oh so he missed it twice not three times

and your point? if you use age LeBron missed po when he was what 18 and 19 cmon bruh

[And1AllDay]

Didn't LeBron face 7 top 30 SRS teams and MJ faced 1


Um...

Bye

and not a reply will be made about this i see whats going on

[ImKobe]

Oh so he missed it twice not three times

and your point? if you use age LeBron missed po when he was what 18 and 19 cmon bruh

Lebron missed the Playoffs last year at age 34, and that's with Kuzma, Rondo, Stephenson, McGee, Chandler, Ingram, Ball etc

Jordan at age 35 led a team with no all-stars to 62 wins and a championship, winning MVP and FMVP in the process.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron missed the Playoffs last year at age 34, and that's with Kuzma, Rondo, Stephenson, McGee, Chandler, Ingram, Ball etc

Jordan at age 35 led a team with no all-stars to 62 wins and a championship, winning MVP and FMVP in the process.

he was injured and us Kobe bois know what is like to miss the playoffs injured :(

Bad days during our lakers run

[ImKobe]

he was injured and us Kobe bois know what is like to miss the playoffs injured :(

Bad days during our lakers run

Lakers were barely .500 with him healthy, he simply didn't play a winning brand of basketball. We were getting our shit pushed in by Trae Young's Hawks and a Pacers squad without Oladipo (our worst loss in a couple seasons :( ) with Lebron healthy and in "Playoff Mode".

[LostCause]

Mike missed the playoffs 3 years too bruh bruh

and on a bball forum board how you didnt know this?
Lmao

Comedy

[Vino24]

Lebron missed the Playoffs last year at age 34, and that's with Kuzma, Rondo, Stephenson, McGee, Chandler, Ingram, Ball etc

Jordan at age 35 led a team with no all-stars to 62 wins and a championship, winning MVP and FMVP in the process.
are you actually comparing the two teams? I thought you had intelligence :oldlol:

[superduper]

No....rebuttals....:cheers:

[Bawkish]

MJ at 35 is carrying his team to 60 wins, winning MVP & FMVP and a championship

Lebron at 35 is celebrating Taco Tuesdays everyday in his home for the rest of the playoffs season :lol

[aj1987]

This is your idea of a retort to a legit question? Just deflecting and throwing personal insults? And you call us the retards :facepalm

Dat lack of self awareness, you and the rest of the garbage LeStans are the main culprits to why ISH is a shithole
You're melting down over a post of mine in which I wasn't even talking about basketball, but OP's math skills (the lack it). I called HIM a retard, because he doesn't understand basic 4th grade math.

As I said, you Jordan turds are the most insecure things in the universe. No wonder this board is a cesspool.

[superduper]

SO to recap...

THREE rounds were tougher for Jordan.
And ONE round was tougher for Bran.

Hence the playoffs overall were MUCH tougher for Jordan (75% tougher to be exact).

I look forward to the first legit rebuttal to these facts and stats.

Thanks :cheers:

[Elosha]

Sure he faced tougher competition overall if you decide to weigh all series equally.....I mean yeah the 1st round is equal in importance to the f'n finals.:lol
As someone else said in this thread a high Srs for the 1st round makes perfect sense when you can make the postseason with 30 wins yourself. Who else would you get to face?

The way I see it Mj faced a tougher road to the finals(without ever appearing to face a worthy opponent in title years) but Lebron faced much tougher challenges for the actual chip.


Strongly strongly disagree here. Lebron's playoff resume being in question in any sort of way is dishonest. 2011 happened just like 1989 happened for Mj. Lebron has more playoff game winners than Jordan has, which should end that discussion before it begins. But a step further? He's the absolute best elimination game player to ever live, finals or otherwise. He's had plenty of legendary games and moments in the playoffs just like Mike has. And he's played on a level few if any have when the chips were down. Mj is a great playoff performer unquestionably, but so is Lebron. If there is any separation it damn sure isn't "clearly" but that's just a guy who loves them both as a fan speaking.

First, let's not forget LeBron wasn't even making the playoffs for his first two years. And the Bulls went from 23 wins to 38 win in Jordan's rookie year, not 30 wins. Also, the Bulls team in 84 and 85 particularly were weaker than probably any team LeBron has ever played on. They would have probably been vying for the worst record in the league without him. Other than Orlando Woolridge and Jordan, they were a drug addled mess. But to your point about playoffs, Jordan in the 80's played a much tougher EC than LeBron's title runs. Other than Detroit early on and Boston later, there was literally no competition for LeBron, or there shouldn't have been. Yet he still lost to Orlando on 2009 and the Celtics again in 2010 with homecourt advantage. Jordan beat teams in his title runs and before with or without HC advantage, and beat everyone he was supposed to beat, unlike LeBron who has blown series after series his team was supposed to win.

As to the quality of Jordan's Finals opponents, I actually think the Suns, the Jazz, and Sonics could have beaten many title teams. Just because Jordan's dynasty prevented their ascendance doesn't mean they were way below normal contenders, they clearly were not. I can accept that LeBron's had overall harder Finals comp, but it must be pointed out that usually when LeBron plays in the Finals, he not only loses the championship, HIS TEAM GETS BLOWN OFF THE COURT. Often with LeBron MIA in crucial times. It's usually not even all that close.

As to your second point, I'm sorry but although LeBron has hit a number of game winners (often when the game is tied, so the pressure isn't nearly as intense), and we can give him credit, he hasn't hit a single one in the Finals when the stage is at its brightest. Moreover, he's played quite a few more playoff games than MJ did, so he's had more chances to hit gws. Jordan's has multiple iconic big game winning shots in the Finals. You can't name one for LeBron, because they don't exist, and he's missed every single game winning/tying shots in the Finals.

LeBron is great, and you're right he's had big elimination game moments. But to me, that's overshadowed by all the Finals where's he's stunk, 2007 and 2011, or played "great" while being utterly destroyed on the defensive end by his Finals MVP counterpart, and having his team get blown away.

LeBron is great, no question. But he's not now or ever been on Jordan's level. There's no getting around that, no matter how hard LeBron's sycophants troll, here on ISH.

[3ball]

Finals teams defeated

MJ - 6
Bron - 3


Superior in-conference comp

[ X ] MJ
[....] Bron



MJ beat better teams.... :confusedshrug:

[NBAGOAT]

First, let's not forget LeBron wasn't even making the playoffs for his first two years. And the Bulls went from 23 wins to 37 win in Jordan's rookie year, not 30 wins. Also, the Bulls team in 84 and 85 particularl were weaker than probably any team LeBron has ever played on. They would have probably been vying for the worst record in the league without him. Other than Orlando and Jordan, they were a drug addled mess. But to your point about playoffs, Jordan in the 80's played a much tougher EC than LeBron's title runs. Other than Detroit early on and Boston later, there was literally no competition for LeBron, or there shouldn't have been. Yet he still lost to Orlando on 2009 and the Celtics again in 2010 with homecourt advantage. Jordan beat teams in his title runs and before without or without HC advantage, and beat everyone he was supposed to beat, unlike LeBron who has blown series after series his team was supposed to win.

As to the quality of Jordan's Finals opponents, I actually think the Suns, the Jazz, and Sonics could have beaten many title teams. Just because Jordan's dynasty prevented their ascendance doesn't mean they were way below normal contenders, they clearly were not. I can accept that LeBron's had overall harder Finals comp, but it must be pointed out that usually when LeBron plays in the Finals, he not only loses the championship, HIS TEAM GETS BLOWN OFF THE COURT. Often with LeBron MIA in crucial times. It's usually not even all that close.

As to your second point, I'm sorry but although LeBron has hit a number of game winners (often when the game is tied, so the pressure isn't nearly as intense), and we can give him credit, he hasn't hit a single one in the Finals when the stage is at its brightest. Moreover, he's played quite a few more playoff games than MJ did, so he's had more chances to hit gws. Jordan's has multiple iconic big game winning shots in the Finals. You can't name one for LeBron, because they don't exist, and he's missed every single game winning/tying shots in the Finals.

LeBron is great, and you're right he's had big elimination game moments. But to me, that's overshadowed by all the Finals where's he's stunk, 2007 and 2011, or played "great" while being utterly destroyed on the defensive end by his Finals MVP counterpart, and having his team get blown away.

LeBron is great, no question. But he's not now or ever been on Jordan's level. There's no getting around that, no matter how hard LeBron's sycophants troll, here on ISH.

2 series one of which was kind of icing on a cake is not enough to completely disqualify him. I’m the type to think Kareem has a legitimate argument for 1 and he does have black mark playoff series mj does not but idc. Longevity is a positive and adding 3 good playoff runs and 1 negative to like say 10 playoff runs is adding positive value even if it’s bringing your averages down and introduces a black mark to your career resume.

I don’t think the historic losses in 14,17,18 are close to lebrons best series but they certainly are closer to good than bad even with the negative defense.

14 spurs played historically well(people overlook how dominant their rs was) and wade has injury issues. Criticize his defense or some statpadding but even a historically great series from bron goes at best a not close 6.

18 lebron does deserve blame for tilting after jrs error breaking his hand. that cast played worse than the 15 one and was facing a healthy gs however. They lost Kyrie for a few role players essentially.

17 is fine, main criticism is just Durant outplayed him. Should be acknowledged curry was usually the warriors engine and defenses focus however. Stats don’t do him justice. On a team level, there are only a few teams (not even cores) that are on the level of that gs team. We saw shaq with a talented roster face one of those teams and he got smashed in a sweep. The 83 sixers lost one game in the playoffs including sweeping the Kareem/magic lakers. Same for 01 lakers. Main reason 80s lakers and Celtics weren’t as dominant in the playoffs was they faced each other

Old heads do put way too much stock into how much “your guy” scored. Better to just point out lebrons bad help defense. You think dray really cares how much the opposing players pf/c scored? He’s guarding different guys every play because of all the switching which is prevalent across the league

[TheCorporation]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th

And

JUST

LIKE

THAT :hammertime:

Another day
Another win

What's new :dancin

[Elosha]

2 series one of which was kind of icing on a cake is not enough to completely disqualify him. I’m the type to think Kareem has a legitimate argument for 1 and he does have black mark playoff series mj does not but idc. Longevity is a positive and adding 3 good playoff runs and 1 negative to like say 10 playoff runs is adding positive value even if it’s bringing your averages down and introduces a black mark to your career resume.

I don’t think the historic losses in 14,17,18 are close to lebrons best series but they certainly are closer to good than bad even with the negative defense.

14 spurs played historically well(people overlook how dominant their rs was) and wade has injury issues. Criticize his defense or some statpadding but even a historically great series from bron goes at best a not close 6.

18 lebron does deserve blame for tilting after jrs error breaking his hand. that cast played worse than the 15 one and was facing a healthy gs however. They lost Kyrie for a few role players essentially.

17 is fine, main criticism is just Durant outplayed him. Should be acknowledged curry was usually the warriors engine and defenses focus however. Stats don’t do him justice. On a team level, there are only a few teams (not even cores) that are on the level of that gs team. We saw shaq with a talented roster face one of those teams and he got smashed in a sweep. The 83 sixers lost one game in the playoffs including sweeping the Kareem/magic lakers. Same for 01 lakers. Main reason 80s lakers and Celtics weren’t as dominant in the playoffs was they faced each other

Old heads do put way too much stock into how much “your guy” scored. Better to just point out lebrons bad help defense. You think dray really cares how much the opposing players pf/c scored? He’s guarding different guys every play because of all the switching which is prevalent across the league

Sure I can see some people voting for Kareem. He's still my number 2. I guess there could even be arguments for LeBron for GOAT (and of course his career isn't over) but I don't think they are particularly good ones. I have LeBron somewhere around 4-6, and I think he'll stay in that range. I think sportscasters who now have him ranked 2 will reconsider after he retires, assuming he doesn't win any more rings, or wins them as a second option. While LeBron may end up number one on RS and PO scoring list, with huge amounts of assists/rebounds, his real prime just wasnt' as good as Jordan's. And it's not like Jordan's overall career numbers are paltry, he still has amazing career numbers that only get passed usually when players play substantially more games than him.

If Jordan retired and never came back and won 3 more championships, his per game numbers would be better, but he really wouldn't have a claim for GOAT. Not in my mind. Just not enough playing. But returning for 3 more full seasons and winning each time (with still great numbers) solidifies it He has both great career stats, overall winning success (6/6)), and still the best overall playoff/RS career numbers in the post-Wilt Chamberlain outlier numbers 1960's. (Wilt wouldn't have such numbers in any other era but 50's/60's)

Yes, LeBron had great numbers in 14, 17 and 18. His numbers in 2015 look great until you see how poorly he shot, similar to horrible shooting in 2007 and 2011. But the problem was he disappeared a lot in 2014, and scored a bunch when the games were out of reach. And 2017 and 2018 were not really competitive. Again, a lot of LeBron's points in a lot of those games came late, with the game out of reach.

It's these little things that matter when talking about the absolute GOAT. One should take things like this in context. It's obviously not just LeBron's fault that he lost 6 finals, and he often did put up great numbers. But there's too many blemishes, too many asterisks, too many "he didn't leave everything out on the floor" moments for LeBron. Maybe if Jordan didn't exist he'd have a claim for GOAT. But Jordan did do what he did, and LeBron's not matched it.

[NBAGOAT]

Sure I can see some people voting for Kareem. He's still my number 2. I guess there could even be arguments for LeBron for GOAT (and of course his career isn't over) but I don't think they are particularly good ones. I have LeBron somewhere around 4-6, and I think he'll stay in that range. I think sportscasters who now have him ranked 2 will reconsider after he retires, assuming he doesn't win any more rings, or wins them as a second option. While LeBron may end up number one on RS and PO scoring list, with huge amounts of assists/rebounds, his real prime just wasnt' as good as Jordan's. And it's not like Jordan's overall career numbers are paltry, he still has amazing career numbers that only get passed usually when players play substantially more games than him.

If Jordan retired and never came back and won 3 more championships, his per game numbers would be better, but he really wouldn't have a claim for GOAT. Not in my mind. Just not enough playing. But returning for 3 more full seasons and winning each time (with still great numbers) solidifies it He has both great career stats, overall winning success (6/6)), and still the best overall playoff/RS career numbers in the post-Wilt Chamberlain outlier numbers 1960's. (Wilt wouldn't have such numbers in any other era but 50's/60's)

Yes, LeBron had great numbers in 14, 17 and 18. His numbers in 2015 look great until you see how poorly he shot, similar to horrible shooting in 2007 and 2011. But the problem was he disappeared a lot in 2014, and scored a bunch when the games were out of reach. And 2017 and 2018 were not really competitive. Again, a lot of LeBron's points in a lot of those games came late, with the game out of reach.

It's these little things that matter when talking about the absolute GOAT. One should take things like this in context. It's obviously not just LeBron's fault that he lost 6 finals, and he often did put up great numbers. But there's too many blemishes, too many asterisks, too many "he didn't leave everything out on the floor" moments for LeBron. Maybe if Jordan didn't exist he'd have a claim for GOAT. But Jordan did do what he did, and LeBron's not matched it.

My argument is 17 and 18, maybe even 14 wouldn

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]My argument is 17 and 18, maybe even 14 wouldn

[superduper]

And

JUST

LIKE

THAT :hammertime:

Another day
Another win

What's new :dancin

That's cool and all but at the end of the day 75% of the playoffs was tougher for Jordan and only 25% of the playoffs were tougher for Bran.

Do you have any input in the above facts and stats Corp? :eek:

[3ball]

People don't realize how much the Heat's offense had been figured out by 2014

The Heat put zero pressure on the Spurs defense and didn't wear them down in the slightest - the Spurs were comfortable as hell defending the Heat, so they had the capacity to get hot on offense

If the Spurs were scrambling on defense to defend the Heat, they wouldn't have gotten hot offensively

The entire way the Heat played was completely destroyed and overtaken in the 14' Finals - it was a thorough and record ass-whooping - anytime a team's brand gets completely usurped and blown away by the other team, role players won't play well..

It was the Heat that were on their heels, scrambling and getting worn down defensively, so guys didn't have the capacity or comfort level to get hot or produce well offensively.. basketball is a game of attrition and the Spurs won that battle easily, by using a superior brand of ball (ball movement)

[ArbitraryWater]

Top 30 SRS teams faced

LeBron

2017 Warriors: 4th
2016 Warriors: 7th
2015 Warriors: 10th
2008 Celtics: 11th
2007 Spurs: 23rd
2014 Spurs: 30th

Jordan

1986 Celtics: 13th

ouch


this seriously makes me think OP's stats are BS, too :lol

no way Jordan's finals opponents have a higher SRS. false

[superduper]

ouch


this seriously makes me think OP's stats are BS, too :lol

no way Jordan's finals opponents have a higher SRS. false

So you can't read? Re-read the OP bruh.

And again I reiterate, at the end of the day 75% of the playoffs was tougher for Jordan and only 25% of the playoffs were tougher for Bran.

I await the first legit rebuttal to the above stats and facts.

[3ball]

ouch


this seriously makes me think OP's stats are BS, too :lol

no way Jordan's finals opponents have a higher SRS. false
SRS was lower because there was more parity

The super-team era is essentially "big fish small pond" conferences, so SRS was higher for the top team

[3ball]

Lebron shouldn't get credit for facing good Finals comp like the Spurs, when he had a "not 6, not 7" super-team himself

So ultimately, even if you think lebron faced better Finals teams - he had his OWN super-teams to face those teams

i.e. MJ faced 2-star teams WITH 2-star teams, and lebron faced 3-star teams WITH 3-star teams

This nullifies the whole argument, but people forget this aspect

Ultimately, both the 16' warriors and 16' Cavs had "big 3's", but the Cavs were viewed as inferior because they were nowhere near 70 wins like Curry or Kawhi were..

If Kawhi's Spurs had beaten the Warriors that year, it wouldn't be a major upset... Lebron should've had a team that was viewed on this level, but his style of play simply prevents it (ball-domination)

[guy]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]

Good luck naming anyone in history who

[Micku]

The east was stronger in the 80s and in the 90s. The finals competition was different tho. Not necessary with the Spurs, but with the Warriors. They stand out the most of course.

As someone said before, LeBron's lows are lower than MJ. He lost when he was the favorite, with the 2011. Even with some of his wins. In 2013 when the Heat beat the Spurs, the first 1-5 games was a bit hard to watch imo. The Spurs sagged on LeBron, daring him to shoot. They put Boris Diaw on him and he was actually doing pretty well. In those five games, he was 21.6, 10.8 trb, 6.8 ast, on 43.6%. In the final two games, he came through, plus the Ray Allen shot. With the win, I suppose you don't really hear his performance in the finals. But with these two wins, no one really compared him to MJ. More like saying how the Spurs were great. MJ had his share of sucking a few games too. But never like that in a row.

Even with the his lows being lower, his single win over 2016 was higher than any of MJs wins I would say. And most of the stuff that he did as a second return as a Cavs is impressive. Dragging his team in 2015 and 2018 to the finals. Put up great stats during those years too. Not so good defense most of the time. And you could make excuses on his loses to the Warriors due to them being so stacked after KD or injuries that the Cavs received.

These are the finals opponents. MJ competition was a bit more fierce in the east. From the Pistons, Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Heat, Pacers. They are spread out of the years. MJ never lost as the favorite and won a few as the underdog. Lebron did lose few times as the favorite that I remember. Lost to the Magic in 09 and lost to the Celts 10, lost to the Mavs 11. You can argue that he did all he could do to help his team overcome them with the exception of 11. His team wasn't good enough and/or he wasn't good enough. You can go on to why he lost, but that's another discussion.

MJ had the better team than LeBron and the better coach, but LeBron had the better talent. The Heat should've been better than what they were, but they had injures and just underperformed at times. The Cavs always struggled defensively. Offensively they were great. And they could never really get K.Love going or integrated into the offense. I suppose you can argue he was never a efficient player anyway. They tend to turn it on in the playoffs.

MJ did face tougher competition imo in the east. I think a lot of ppl acknowledge it already. The east sucked. LeBron faced tougher competition in the finals with the Warriors. You can argue the Spurs in 14 were better than MJ's finals competition, I feel like that could go either way. They weren't as dominating as a team throughout the playoffs. The Mavs put them seven games, the Thunder with 6, with an OT. With the Heat, they just blew them out. The Heat ran out of gas defensively, and the Spurs were on fire. I'm not too sure if they are better than Sonics or the Jazz really. It's hard to really compare due to the styles and rules are different. But the Bulls are one of the best teams ever, and the Sonics pushed them to six. Not that the Bulls were gonn'a lose. They had it in the bag. But if Gary Payton were to defend MJ at the start of the series, it could've been tougher for the Bulls. Both Sonics and the Spurs were similar in defense and offense output, but in a different way and style. They were just second to the Bulls.

With the Warriors, LeBron beat'em once, and possibly could've beat them in 15 if the team was healthy. But once they got KD, it was over. Some ppl may argue that it was unfair since KD went to the GSW to make a superteam. But LeBron did this with the Heat and with the Cavs. It just didn't work as well because the pieces didn't fit as smoothly and neither teams were as great as the GSW prior to Lebron joining. They were a entirely different team when LBJ joined in except for the stars. GSW kept their core intact.

The 90s, they didn't have that. Not really. The Rockets with Barkley, Hakeem, and Clyde. But they were older and didn't work right. The Lakers had the 4 all stars with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and baby Kobe lol. But they were young. Despite them having the star power, they didn't get to face the Bulls. They weren't the better team anyway.

This whole thing doesn't matter tho since end the result is gonn'a stay the same unless you are alluding that the Cavs couldn't or have a tougher time beating the teams that MJ beat in the East. But if you were to say that, then the GSW would definitely give the Bulls a tougher time in the finals.

[NBAGOAT]

You can’t really look at it that way. Game is about momentum. A couple plays here and there can completely swing momentum, which affects both teams. It’s not impossible that that factor could’ve resulted in the Spurs scoring 8 ppg less and the Heat scoring 8 ppg more for example.

Lebron was efficient but not very aggressive. He only took 18 FGA and 6 FTA per game. He nearly doubled that in 2015 with 33 FGA and 11 FTA per game. In 2015, he clearly had less help and was arguably going up against a better team but they were much closer in that series from a wins and point differential perspective. I’ve always said that if he took his 2015 approach to 2014 that series is much closer, possibly with the Heat winning. Sure his efficiency may have been less than it was, but probably still better then 2015, but his teams overall efficiency is higher and/or the Spurs would’ve been slowed down. One big difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Jordan seems to have a better gauge of when his teammates don’t have it going offensively so he doesn’t wait as long to go into aggressive- takeover mode, which in most cases eventually galvanizes his teammates and opens up their opportunities more which gets them to play better.

I believe in momentum but think our eye test greatly overstates it. It happens to me too when watching games where I “know” this guy needs to take over now to stop the bleeding or this guys on fire and needs to keep shooting. We don’t remember the times we thought that way and it was completely wrong(like a star trying to take over suddenly misses 5 in a row or he makes 3 or 4 shots in a row and it’s irrelevant because the other team is scoring too). Sometimes one guy doing all scoring can even cause disinterest from teammates.

We usually remember the times we were right about intangible stuff like momentum and hot hand stuff more than we were wrong. You’re possibly right with one game being a small sample but that’s all it is. As a default, it’s pretty unlikely someone is 16pts/game better than bron who was already a positive player at least. 16 pts/game impact wise over a season is bigger than the difference between steph curry and Cameron payne

[LostCause]

The east was stronger in the 80s and in the 90s. The finals competition was different tho. Not necessary with the Spurs, but with the Warriors. They stand out the most of course.

As someone said before, LeBron's lows are lower than MJ. He lost when he was the favorite, with the 2011. Even with some of his wins. In 2013 when the Heat beat the Spurs, the first 1-5 games was a bit hard to watch imo. The Spurs sagged on LeBron, daring him to shoot. They put Boris Diaw on him and he was actually doing pretty well. In those five games, he was 21.6, 10.8 trb, 6.8 ast, on 43.6%. In the final two games, he came through, plus the Ray Allen shot. With the win, I suppose you don't really hear his performance in the finals. But with these two wins, no one really compared him to MJ. More like saying how the Spurs were great. MJ had his share of sucking a few games too. But never like that in a row.

Even with the his lows being lower, his single win over 2016 was higher than any of MJs wins I would say. And most of the stuff that he did as a second return as a Cavs is impressive. Dragging his team in 2015 and 2018 to the finals. Put up great stats during those years too. Not so good defense most of the time. And you could make excuses on his loses to the Warriors due to them being so stacked after KD or injuries that the Cavs received.

These are the finals opponents. MJ competition was a bit more fierce in the east. From the Pistons, Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Heat, Pacers. They are spread out of the years. MJ never lost as the favorite and won a few as the underdog. Lebron did lose few times as the favorite that I remember. Lost to the Magic in 09 and lost to the Celts 10, lost to the Mavs 11. You can argue that he did all he could do to help his team overcome them with the exception of 11. His team wasn't good enough and/or he wasn't good enough. You can go on to why he lost, but that's another discussion.

MJ had the better team than LeBron and the better coach, but LeBron had the better talent. The Heat should've been better than what they were, but they had injures and just underperformed at times. The Cavs always struggled defensively. Offensively they were great. And they could never really get K.Love going or integrated into the offense. I suppose you can argue he was never a efficient player anyway. They tend to turn it on in the playoffs.

MJ did face tougher competition imo in the east. I think a lot of ppl acknowledge it already. The east sucked. LeBron faced tougher competition in the finals with the Warriors. You can argue the Spurs in 14 were better than MJ's finals competition, I feel like that could go either way. They weren't as dominating as a team throughout the playoffs. The Mavs put them seven games, the Thunder with 6, with an OT. With the Heat, they just blew them out. The Heat ran out of gas defensively, and the Spurs were on fire. I'm not too sure if they are better than Sonics or the Jazz really. It's hard to really compare due to the styles and rules are different. But the Bulls are one of the best teams ever, and the Sonics pushed them to six. Not that the Bulls were gonn'a lose. They had it in the bag. But if Gary Payton were to defend MJ at the start of the series, it could've been tougher for the Bulls. Both Sonics and the Spurs were similar in defense and offense output, but in a different way and style. They were just second to the Bulls.

With the Warriors, LeBron beat'em once, and possibly could've beat them in 15 if the team was healthy. But once they got KD, it was over. Some ppl may argue that it was unfair since KD went to the GSW to make a superteam. But LeBron did this with the Heat and with the Cavs. It just didn't work as well because the pieces didn't fit as smoothly and neither teams were as great as the GSW prior to Lebron joining. They were a entirely different team when LBJ joined in except for the stars. GSW kept their core intact.

The 90s, they didn't have that. Not really. The Rockets with Barkley, Hakeem, and Clyde. But they were older and didn't work right. The Lakers had the 4 all stars with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and baby Kobe lol. But they were young. Despite them having the star power, they didn't get to face the Bulls. They weren't the better team anyway.

This whole thing doesn't matter tho since end the result is gonn'a stay the same unless you are alluding that the Cavs couldn't or have a tougher time beating the teams that MJ beat in the East. But if you were to say that, then the GSW would definitely give the Bulls a tougher time in the finals.

Excellent post. Can't disagree with anything here :applause:

[Phoenix]

Excellent post. Can't disagree with anything here :applause:

Yes, a reasonable summation of their careers. And frankly, wasted on this board.

[Manny98]

The east was stronger in the 80s and in the 90s. The finals competition was different tho. Not necessary with the Spurs, but with the Warriors. They stand out the most of course.

As someone said before, LeBron's lows are lower than MJ. He lost when he was the favorite, with the 2011. Even with some of his wins. In 2013 when the Heat beat the Spurs, the first 1-5 games was a bit hard to watch imo. The Spurs sagged on LeBron, daring him to shoot. They put Boris Diaw on him and he was actually doing pretty well. In those five games, he was 21.6, 10.8 trb, 6.8 ast, on 43.6%. In the final two games, he came through, plus the Ray Allen shot. With the win, I suppose you don't really hear his performance in the finals. But with these two wins, no one really compared him to MJ. More like saying how the Spurs were great. MJ had his share of sucking a few games too. But never like that in a row.

Even with the his lows being lower, his single win over 2016 was higher than any of MJs wins I would say. And most of the stuff that he did as a second return as a Cavs is impressive. Dragging his team in 2015 and 2018 to the finals. Put up great stats during those years too. Not so good defense most of the time. And you could make excuses on his loses to the Warriors due to them being so stacked after KD or injuries that the Cavs received.

These are the finals opponents. MJ competition was a bit more fierce in the east. From the Pistons, Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Heat, Pacers. They are spread out of the years. MJ never lost as the favorite and won a few as the underdog. Lebron did lose few times as the favorite that I remember. Lost to the Magic in 09 and lost to the Celts 10, lost to the Mavs 11. You can argue that he did all he could do to help his team overcome them with the exception of 11. His team wasn't good enough and/or he wasn't good enough. You can go on to why he lost, but that's another discussion.

MJ had the better team than LeBron and the better coach, but LeBron had the better talent. The Heat should've been better than what they were, but they had injures and just underperformed at times. The Cavs always struggled defensively. Offensively they were great. And they could never really get K.Love going or integrated into the offense. I suppose you can argue he was never a efficient player anyway. They tend to turn it on in the playoffs.

MJ did face tougher competition imo in the east. I think a lot of ppl acknowledge it already. The east sucked. LeBron faced tougher competition in the finals with the Warriors. You can argue the Spurs in 14 were better than MJ's finals competition, I feel like that could go either way. They weren't as dominating as a team throughout the playoffs. The Mavs put them seven games, the Thunder with 6, with an OT. With the Heat, they just blew them out. The Heat ran out of gas defensively, and the Spurs were on fire. I'm not too sure if they are better than Sonics or the Jazz really. It's hard to really compare due to the styles and rules are different. But the Bulls are one of the best teams ever, and the Sonics pushed them to six. Not that the Bulls were gonn'a lose. They had it in the bag. But if Gary Payton were to defend MJ at the start of the series, it could've been tougher for the Bulls. Both Sonics and the Spurs were similar in defense and offense output, but in a different way and style. They were just second to the Bulls.

With the Warriors, LeBron beat'em once, and possibly could've beat them in 15 if the team was healthy. But once they got KD, it was over. Some ppl may argue that it was unfair since KD went to the GSW to make a superteam. But LeBron did this with the Heat and with the Cavs. It just didn't work as well because the pieces didn't fit as smoothly and neither teams were as great as the GSW prior to Lebron joining. They were a entirely different team when LBJ joined in except for the stars. GSW kept their core intact.

The 90s, they didn't have that. Not really. The Rockets with Barkley, Hakeem, and Clyde. But they were older and didn't work right. The Lakers had the 4 all stars with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and baby Kobe lol. But they were young. Despite them having the star power, they didn't get to face the Bulls. They weren't the better team anyway.

This whole thing doesn't matter tho since end the result is gonn'a stay the same unless you are alluding that the Cavs couldn't or have a tougher time beating the teams that MJ beat in the East. But if you were to say that, then the GSW would definitely give the Bulls a tougher time in the finals.
MJ lost as the favorite against the Pistons in 1990

After losing in 88 & 89 a lot of people thought that 1990 was finally going to be the year that the Bulls overcame the Pistons

[Phoenix]

MJ lost as the favorite against the Pistons in 1990

After losing in 88 & 89 a lot of people thought that 1990 was finally going to be the year that the Bulls overcame the Pistons

Except the Pistons were the favorite, per this link:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=1989-1990&o=vo&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=

What should happen around here, is someone gets permabanned for writing out a blatant lie that gets debunked within 5 minutes by a 30 second google search. How long you think you'd last?

[Manny98]

Except the Pistons were the favorite, per this link:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=1989-1990&o=vo&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=

What should happen around here, is someone gets permabanned for writing out a blatant lie that gets debunked within 5 minutes by a 30 second google search. How long you think you'd last?
Read what i said idiot

[superduper]

Read what i said idiot

He literally countered exactly what you said wtf are you talking about :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

Read what i said idiot

the second part what you said is irrelevant, the pistons were the favorite plain and simple. There's never a 100/0 split when it comes to predicting a series. brandon jennings seriously believed the bucks would beat the heat in 6 :oldlol:

[LostCause]

Lets see. Where did "a lot of people" think the Bulls would beat the Pistons in 90?

http://oi63.tinypic.com/ejwqcg.jpg

[superduper]

Lets see. Where did "a lot of people" think the Bulls would beat the Pistons in 90?

http://oi63.tinypic.com/ejwqcg.jpg

Oh lordy :eek:

[Manny98]

Lets see. Where did "a lot of people" think the Bulls would beat the Pistons in 90?

http://oi63.tinypic.com/ejwqcg.jpg
Yes and literally all of them predicted it would go to 7 games thanks for proving what i just f*cking said that a LOT OF PEOPLE HAD THE BULLS BEATING THE PISTONS THAT YEAR

[Phoenix]

Read what i said idiot

I did, and my reply sufficiently shut down your inbred retard bullshit. 'Alot of people' thinking the Bulls would win doesn't mean the M A J O R I T Y of people thought this, or the betting odds would have favored Chicago. So the Bulls were FACTUALLY the underdog based on betting odds, which makes your statement at best horribly mis-informed, or at worst a bold faced lie.

So my original premise stands, a comment so blatantly wrong warrants you being given a timeout for stupidity. Doesn't need to be permanent, but completely invalidating a blatant bullshit statement within 5 minutes of being posted with a google research that children nowadays are learning to do a few years out of the womb.....it just warrants something. Honestly, my best friend has an 18 month grandson. Give that child an ipad right now and I guarantee you in 6 months, they'd have figured out a way to counter what you just wrote. Maybe you should be made to change your avatar to a dunce cap, something that symbolizes your mental capacity, or even a picture of some leftover shit stain that didn't flush properly.....something that properly demonstrates the quality of your posts....just for a week, and you get to remove it once you can demonstrate the ability to write two words in a row that indicate it's ok to allow you out in public free of handcuffs and a straight jacket.

[guy]

Yes and literally all of them predicted it would go to 7 games thanks for proving what i just f*cking said that a LOT OF PEOPLE HAD THE BULLS BEATING THE PISTONS THAT YEAR

5 of 13 picked it to go 7 and 2 of 13 picked the Bulls to win. WTF did you read?? :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Tired of this stupid pro Jordan agenda on this forum **** yall

The so called GOAT was apparently the underdog for half of his career f*ck outta here with that bullshit

[Micku]

Yes and literally all of them predicted it would go to 7 games thanks for proving what i just f*cking said that a LOT OF PEOPLE HAD THE BULLS BEATING THE PISTONS THAT YEAR

What? Haha

5/13 said that it would go to game 7. The rest said 6 or 5.

And only 2/13 said the Bulls were going to win, but they said it would take game 7.

Not to mention, the Pistons had HCA. The Bulls only beat them at their place once in 2 years. Lost 7 or 8 times straight or something like that.

The Bulls weren't the favorite to win. Ppl were still wondering if you could even win it all being the scoring leader. The only person to do so at that time was Kareem.

Like if you were to say more ppl though that they were going to win than before, sure. But were they the favorite? Naw. Not that I know of, lol. Maybe in Chicago. But I think that's more hope.

[Vino24]

MJ never actually beat his toughest competition when they were at their best (Pistons, Celtics) LeBron actually beat his competition when they were at their best (Spurs, Warriors) MJ had to wait till his competition was weakened and old

[LostCause]

Tired of this stupid pro Jordan agenda on this forum **** yall

The so called GOAT was apparently the underdog for half of his career f*ck outta here with that bullshit

Isn't LeBron your GOAT?

Isn't he basically ALWAYS the underdog according to yal? Lol

[Phoenix]

Isn't LeBron your GOAT?

Isn't he basically ALWAYS the underdog according to yal? Lol

Oh, you picked up on that too? Couldn't be bothered to waste the energy replying, like some shit is wayyyy too easy. You gotta admit though, watching the village idiot gleefully go from post to post own-goaling is its own reward.

[Vino24]

Isn't LeBron your GOAT?

Isn't he basically ALWAYS the underdog according to yal? Lol
to be fair LeBron teams miss the Playoffs when LeBron leaves. MJ's team won 55 games. MJ was worth two wins.

[Manny98]

Isn't LeBron your GOAT?

Isn't he basically ALWAYS the underdog according to yal? Lol
No he was the favorite in 2009 & 2011

See I'm not like you stupid MJ stans acting like every time he lost was because he was the underdog :rolleyes:

[guy]

Tired of this stupid pro Jordan agenda on this forum **** yall

The so called GOAT was apparently the underdog for half of his career f*ck outta here with that bullshit

Facts are facts :confusedshrug: :oldlol:

[LostCause]

to be fair LeBron teams miss the Playoffs when LeBron leaves. MJ's team won 55 games. MJ was worth two wins.

So was LeBron. Lakers literally only improved by 2 wins with him instead of Lonzo Ball leading them

Also, LeBrons teams miss the playoffs with him, too. He's up to 3 seasons of missing the playoffs

[Vino24]

So was LeBron. Lakers literally only improved by 2 wins with him instead of Lonzo Ball leading them

Also, LeBrons teams miss the playoffs with him, too. He's up to 3 seasons of missing the playoffs
did you forget about LeBron's injury? they said he should of been out 6 months not 6 weeks

[LostCause]

No he was the favorite in 2009 & 2011

See I'm not like you stupid MJ stans acting like every time he lost was because he was the underdog :rolleyes:

No way you just utterly missed the point like this

.............Did you really?

[LostCause]

did you forget about LeBron's injury? they said he should of been out 6 months not 6 weeks

No. Just counting the games he played their win% wasn't enough to make the playoffs

[Vino24]

No. Just counting the games he played their win% wasn't enough to make the playoffs
the games he returned from injury he was obviously still injured. Obviously that wouldn't show up on a stat sheet

[LostCause]

the games he returned from injury he was obviously still injured. Obviously that wouldn't show up on a stat sheet

When he activated "Playoff Mode"?

https://twitter.com/YahooSports/status/1102809954740658176/video/1

[SomeBlackDude]

Tired of this stupid pro Jordan agenda on this forum **** yall

The so called GOAT was apparently the underdog for half of his career f*ck outta here with that bullshit

meltdown.

bronny played his entire career in, by the $tats, the weakest conference in the history of professional basketball. proceeded to get his shit pushed in time and time again the first second he saw the best from the west. litrally set and then broke his own records for worst finals beatdowns ever. and this was with him jumping from city to city putting together his own handpicked super teams.

deal with it.


MJ never actually beat his toughest competition when they were at their best (Pistons, Celtics) LeBron actually beat his competition when they were at their best (Spurs, Warriors) MJ had to wait till his competition was weakened and old

lol.

he had to wait until his team matured.

shoulda done what bronny did- quit on his squad and go team up with chuck and pat ewing in nyc. woulda had not 5... not 6... not 7... not 10...

but for real.

[Vino24]

When he activated "Playoff Mode"?

https://twitter.com/YahooSports/status/1102809954740658176/video/1
players say a lot of things. perhaps he should have done 360 dunks in practice to confirm "he's back"

[Micku]

MJ never actually beat his toughest competition when they were at their best (Pistons, Celtics) LeBron actually beat his competition when they were at their best (Spurs, Warriors) MJ had to wait till his competition was weakened and old

More like injured rather than old. MJ was like 34 and 35 years old by time the finals and still won. The Bulls in 97 and 98 were old too and they were still one of the best teams ever and won. Bird's back gave out. Mchale foot I think became more nagging. Magic had to retire. IT had injuries, but Dumars and Rodman were still good.

Magic was like second to MJ in MVP and was probably the second best player in 1991. But his team was banged up. MJ was suffering with some nagging injures also, but he could still play. Worthy just got hurt again. Scott too. It was close, despite it being only five games.

It would've cool to see Bulls at their full force against the Pistons, Celts and Lakers.

But you are talking about Lebron when he faced the Spurs? Maybe in 07. But after that? Not really. Spurs in 14 core was old too, when they beat the Heat too. Older than Pistons, Lakers, and Celts in 91. Duncan was 37. Parker was 31. Manu was 36. Kawhi and Danny Green were the uprising stars tho, but Kawhi wasn't as good as he was now. Kawhi was 22 and Green was 26. They were the oldest team in the NBA.

The Pistons in 91, IT was 29. Rodman was 29. Dumars was 27. Their core was younger, but Bill Laimbeer and Mark Aguirre were getting older.

Magic was 31. James Worthy was 29 in 91.

But the Bulls at their peak if we were to say 96 Bulls would be older than Celts, Pistons, and Lakers were in their prime.

What LeBron James did do was beat OKC and the GSW. GSW in 2016 was the most impressive feat and his performance is legendary imo. That is one thing he has over MJ. And I guess he faced KD in his prime, so it was a fun matchup but the teams were so one sided in terms of talent.

[Phoenix]

More like injured rather than old. MJ was like 34 and 35 years old by time the finals and still won. The Bulls in 97 and 98 were old too and they were still one of the best teams ever and won. Bird's back gave out. Mchale foot I think became more nagging. Magic had to retire. IT had injuries, but Dumars and Rodman were still good.

Magic was like second to MJ in MVP and was probably the second best player in 1991. But his team was banged up. MJ was suffering with some nagging injures also, but he could still play. Worthy just got hurt again. Scott too. It was close, despite it being only five games.

It would've cool to see Bulls at their full force against the Pistons, Celts and Lakers.

But you are talking about Lebron when he faced the Spurs? Maybe in 07. But after that? Not really. Spurs in 14 core was old too, when they beat the Heat too. Older than Pistons, Lakers, and Celts in 91. Duncan was 37. Parker was 31. Manu was 36. Kawhi and Danny Green were the uprising stars tho, but Kawhi wasn't as good as he was now. Kawhi was 22 and Green was 26. They were the oldest team in the NBA.

The Pistons in 91, IT was 29. Rodman was 29. Dumars was 27. Their core was younger, but Bill Laimbeer and Mark Aguirre were getting older.

Magic was 31. James Worthy was 29 in 91.

But the Bulls at their peak if we were to say 96 Bulls would be older than Celts, Pistons, and Lakers were in their prime.

What LeBron James did do was beat OKC and the GSW. GSW in 2016 was the most impressive feat and his performance is legendary imo. That is one thing he has over MJ. And I guess he faced KD in his prime, so it was a fun matchup but the teams were so one sided in terms of talent.

Detroit themselves didn't break through until Boston got old(88) or the Lakers were injured(89), but no-one holds it against them. It's as if the Bulls have the exclusivity on beating a champion at the end of its run. Never mind that the Pistons actually got to the conference finals, and if they got past the Bulls it's probably even money with the Lakers. But they were starting to lose their hold on the conference regardless. The Bulls in 1990 take the peak Pistons squad to 7 games in Pippen's first all-star year( and he was immobilized for game 7 with the migraine). It's obvious that Chicago was coming.

[Manny98]

According to SRS the 2018 Raptors are better than the bad boy Pistons

So the 2018 Raptors > Jordans toughest competition

We win again :hammertime:

[LostCause]

According to SRS, the 91 Lakers are better than the 09 Magic. That Magic team destroyed LeBrons HIGHER ranked SRS team with LeBron having what was widely considered his PEAK playoff run

Jordan beat a better team than those Magic by SRS. While playing on a WORSE team than Brons Cavs by SRS. While having an even better playoff run than peak LeBron

Sheesh

[Manny98]

A crippled 91 Lakers big difference

Worthy and Byron Scott were both injured that series

Try again :hammertime:

[LostCause]

Jameer Nelson was an AllStar and didn’t even play in the Cavs series �� Bron still lost. Try again

Also, you can sub 91 Lakers for 92 Blazers. Still makes the same points lol

[Da_Realist]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Jameer Nelson was an AllStar and didn

[Mr Feeny]

According to SRS the 2018 Raptors are better than the bad boy Pistons

So the 2018 Raptors > Jordans toughest competition

We win again :hammertime:

Dont you ever get tired of the same old, lame shtick? Haven't you yot anything better to do with your life?

[Phoenix]

Dont you ever get tired of the same old, lame shtick? Haven't you yot anything better to do with your life?

No, and most certainly no.

[egokiller]

What was Jordan's best Finals win

Moot point. He won them all.

Now compare that to a 6 time loser.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[NBAGOAT]

This is why bron stans should just default to 2016 or the srs argument can be countered all day back and forth

[3ball]

This is why bron stans should just default to 2016 or the srs argument can be countered all day back and forth
facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over as 51-win underdogs again in 2017.

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

[superduper]

Hello? Does a single Jordan hater have a response to this?

To recap-

Overall playoff competition toughness (4 rounds):

3 rounds tougher (75% of playoffs)- Jordan
1 round tougher (25% of playoffs)- Bran

[Manny98]

Hello? Does a single Jordan hater have a response to this?

To recap-

Overall playoff competition toughness (4 rounds):

3 rounds tougher (75% of playoffs)- Jordan
1 round tougher (25% of playoffs)- Bran
So you agree that the 2018 Raptors > Bad Boy Pistons since they had a higher SRS :confusedshrug:

[superduper]

So you agree that the 2018 Raptors > Bad Boy Pistons since they had a higher SRS :confusedshrug:

Are you looking at regular season SRS or playoff SRS

[Manny98]

They're is no such thing as "Playoff SRS" dummy :oldlol:

[superduper]

They're is no such thing as "Playoff SRS" dummy :oldlol:

Boom

[Wally450]

MJ at 35 is carrying his team to 60 wins, winning MVP & FMVP and a championship

Lebron at 35 is celebrating Taco Tuesdays everyday in his home for the rest of the playoffs season :lol

LeBron was coming off 8 straight Finals appearances while Jordan was coming off quitting on his team and having his dad killed.

[Mr Feeny]

LeBron was coming off 8 straight Finals appearances while Jordan was coming off quitting on his team and having his dad killed.

What's special about a "finals appearance", especially in the weakest conference in NBA history? The goal is the championship. And Lebron at 34 failed to make the playoffs while Jordan lead his team to yet another title.

[superduper]

What's special about a "finals appearance", especially in the weakest conference in NBA history? The goal is the championship. And Lebron at 34 failed to make the playoffs while Jordan lead his team to yet another title.

"Finals appearances!!"
"Playoff series wins!!"

These are the thing Bran stans are propping up these days :roll: :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

"Finals appearances!!"
"Playoff series wins!!"

These are the thing Bran stans are propping up these days :roll: :roll:

It's stupid though. Its title or failure. Surely even the dumbest of these kids get that.

[Manny98]

It's stupid though. Its title or failure. Surely even the dumbest of these kids get that.
You get points for Silver medals in the Olympics

Being the best team in your conference is a massive acomplishement in itself

For 8 years straight? That's some GOAT shit

[Mr Feeny]

You get points for Silver medals in the Olympics

Being the best team in your conference is a massive acomplishement in itself

For 8 years straight? That's some GOAT shit

There is no silver medal in the NBA. You either win the title or fail.

[Manny98]

There is no silver medal in the NBA. You either win the title or fail.
Conference championship = Silver medal :applause:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uqGRKkrx0k

[Mr Feeny]

Conference championship = Silver medal :applause:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uqGRKkrx0k

Nahh

[guy]

Conference championship = Silver medal :applause:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uqGRKkrx0k

Which Olympian is getting celebrated as even close to the GOAT for his silver medals? Who even talks about silver medals?

[superduper]

Which Olympian is getting celebrated as even close to the GOAT for his silver medals? Who even talks about silver medals?

Imagine if all of Phelps' medals were silver :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Gold medal = 5 points

Silver medal = 3 points

LeBron 3 gold medals + 6 Silver medals = 33 points

Jordan 6 gold medals + 0 silver medals = 30 points

So LeBron wins :applause:

[RRR3]

Manny you yourself said Jordan was the GOAT in another thread.

[guy]

Gold medal = 5 points

Silver medal = 3 points

LeBron 3 gold medals + 6 Silver medals = 33 points

Jordan 6 gold medals + 0 silver medals = 30 points

So LeBron wins :applause:

Do you honestly believe that because of your made up point system that Lebron would rather have 3 rings in 9 finals appearances instead of 6 rings in 6 finals appearances? Do you think any NBA player would? You can

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]Do you honestly believe that because of your made up point system that Lebron would rather have 3 rings in 9 finals appearances instead of 6 rings in 6 finals appearances? Do you think any NBA player would? You can

[guy]

I'm using the Official Olympics point system not something made up :confusedshrug:

Don't be mad at me that MJ only got to the finals 6 times :oldlol:

Okay my bad. Either way, this isn

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]Okay my bad. Either way, this isn

[egokiller]

Manny you yourself said Jordan was the GOAT in another thread.

That poor boy Manny has been mindfvcked to the point where he don't know his ass from a hole in the ground. You expect him to remember that he had MJ as GOAT in another thread? :roll:

[guy]

I'd rather have 6 rings it doesn't matter about win/loss ratio

Finals record is only a thing used to put down LeBron

But i would be more impressed by a player winning 5 rings in 12 finals appearances than 6 rings in 6 finals appearances

Winning twice the conference championships as the other player is more impressive to me than just one ring. It shows that you had a top 2 team in the league for 12 entire years in you career

I actually agree with your first point. It shouldn

[3ba11]

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 1st round: -0.15
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 1st round: 3.03

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 2nd round: 2.93
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 2nd round: 3.68

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in 3rd round: 4.11
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in 3rd round: 5.39

Average SRS of teams Lebron faced in the finals: 7.75
Average SRS of teams Jordan faced in the finals: 6.84

-stolen from LostCause

Discuss :eek:


The problem is that Lebron's teams were projected to have the highest SRS and be the best team in many of the years that he lost the Finals.

Anytime the preseason favorite becomes Finals underdog and then whines about Finals comp, it weaponizes losing and having weaker teams than expected.

Lebron was expected to have the best teams every year from 2011-2016 (preseason favorite), so it's low character to turn around and complain that other teams ended up being too good..

By virtue of being the on-paper favorite (preseason), Lebron's teams were supposed to be the league juggernaut and viable foes for any team - so it's a failure that they were whimpering underdogs and needed "upsets" to win.. It's also fraudulent to seek a better historical ranking based on underachieving the expectation (weaponizing losing).

[TheCorporation]

FullCourt? Care to respond to your thread?

[3ba11]

FullCourt? Care to respond to your thread?


after Lebron's preseason favorites from 2011-2016 became Finals underdogs, he whined about Finals comp, thus weaponizing losing and having weaker teams than expected.

So Lebron is a fraud and his fans are sad victims.. My heart goes out to you.. It always sucks to get defrauded