Bill Russell is the GOAT

[305Baller]

This dude won 8 rings in a row (THATS A DYNASTY) and COMPLETELY DOMINATED the league for almost a decade straight.

Defeated all-time players: Wilt, Oscar, Jabbar, West....

This guy was the defensive anchor and the go to on offense.

ANCHORED A DYNASTY

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Russell wasn't even in the league at the same time as Kareem :lol

[305Baller]

Russell wasn't even in the league at the same time as Kareem :lol


his name was Lou Alcindor

[SouBeachTalents]

his name was Lou Alcindor
Actually Lew, and Russell retired right before his rookie year

[305Baller]

Technically Lew, and Russell retired right before his rookie year

Hahahahaha. Still RUSSELL TRUMPS JORDAN AND LEBRON

[And1AllDay]

Actually Lew, and Russell retired right before his rookie year

:applause:


Hahahahaha. Still RUSSELL TRUMPS JORDAN AND LEBRON

:coleman:

[Duncan21formvp]

Russell came into the league playing with the league MVP winner and ROY. Imagine another all time great coming into the league with that.

[3ball]

Russell's teams had 8-9 HOF teammates... Literally... That's what it took to beat Wilt

It was an 8-team league with all the talent on 1 team to beat 1 guy

Wilt destroys Russell and is the only viable challenger to MJ in my mind

[Vino24]

Russell's teams had 8-9 HOF teammates... Literally... That's what it took to beat Wilt

It was an 8-team league with all the talent on 1 team to beat 1 guy

Wilt destroys Russell and is the only viable challenger to MJ in my mind
they were only HOFers because Russell molded them into the players they became.

[3ball]

they were only HOFers because Russell molded them into the players they became.
Wilt would be a very rich man's AD or very rich man's prime Dwight Howard in today's game

Like, replace Dwight with Wilt in the 09 conference finals - he'd probably have a dynasty - no 8-HOF teams to worry about

Consider that Wilt achieved Kareem's career highs just 6 years before Kareem did.. this was after wilt's peak
.

[Carbine]

I need Kblaze888555 to come in here and lay the facts about Russell.

The Celtics were nothing before him. They had Red for 6-7 years before Russell and they were numerous first round exits and never made the finals.

Russell gets there and they win right away on their way to a record number of titles.

He retires and they miss the playoffs the next two years.

His teammates are in the HOF in large part because of him and the winning they did.

[GimmeThat]

simple logic, when you consider the basketball world isn't just those who participates on the court, you realize, Bill Russell read better in comparison to his counter parts

before this turns into the "Lebron is the best finals performer argument", how scared is everyone at the possibility of someone winning the FMVP for 3 different franchises

[Vino24]

3ball where do you rank Dwight Howard on the GOAT list?

[Jasper]

Russel played on the first super team .....

[pauk]

On paper he should be the GOAT with a huge gap... to never be surpassed...

11 rings
5 mvps
and wait for it... ~11 FMVPs... and wait for it... ~11 DPOYs.... but those 2 awards/trophies didnt exist during his time...

but.... context is a biatch...

[305Baller]

On paper he should be the GOAT with a huge gap... to never be surpassed...

11 rings
5 mvps
and wait for it... ~11 FMVPs... and wait for it... ~11 DPOYs.... but those 2 awards/trophies didnt exist during his time...

but.... context is a biatch...

exactly, context works for Russell. Russell was as comparable to his competition as a current superstar is to the competition now. same thing.


RUSSELL GOAT


DEAL WITH IT.



HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

ITS

NOT

EVEN


CLOSE

[jlip]

I didn't read through the thread, but too many people act like Bill Russell's GOAT candidacy is limited to just his number of championships. That's a huge part of it, but he also has both individual accolades and statistical accomplishments. He has just as many MVPs as Jordan (winning against prime Wilt, Big O, and Baylor), was a 12 time all star, and won an All Star Game MVP. He would easily have 5+ DPOY awards if it existed back then. He led the league in rebounding 5 times, and two of those were against prime Wilt. He was arguably the best passing big man of his era (maybe Wilt), and always raised his game when it mattered most. His top three scoring finals rivaled Magic's and Duncan's top three scoring finals, and that wasn't even his forte. The fact that he coached himself to his last two rings was unprecedented and unrepeated.

[TheMan]

This dude won 8 rings in a row (THATS A DYNASTY) and COMPLETELY DOMINATED the league for almost a decade straight.

Defeated all-time players: Wilt, Oscar, Jabbar, West....

This guy was the defensive anchor and the go to on offense.

ANCHORED A DYNASTY

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif
Lol, Russell isn't even the GOAT two way center...I would pick KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, David Robinson and Duncan over him...

[FKAri]

Got bailed out by Sam Jones one too many times.

[Marchesk]

Got bailed out by Sam Jones one too many times.

LOL. Hondo too!

I think Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan and Lebron all have serious arguments for goat, and maybe Magic as well.

Truth is the goat is an opinion depending on what criteria is used, and the context is always different. We unfortunately can't put all the greats in one league on teams with equal talent and coaching.

Nor can we time travel them into each other's career opportunities. Jordan played with Pippen, Magic had Kareem, Russell had his HOFers, Lebron played in the 2000s and 3ball era, and so on. It's not all the same. We can't know what Wilt's career looks like on the Celtics or in the 90s. I wish we could.

[Shogon]

simple logic, when you consider the basketball world isn't just those who participates on the court, you realize, Bill Russell read better in comparison to his counter parts

before this turns into the "Lebron is the best finals performer argument", how scared is everyone at the possibility of someone winning the FMVP for 3 different franchises

Hahaha

Quoted for truth.

[305Baller]

simple logic, when you consider the basketball world isn't just those who participates on the court, you realize, Bill Russell read better in comparison to his counter parts

before this turns into the "Lebron is the best finals performer argument", how scared is everyone at the possibility of someone winning the FMVP for 3 different franchises

What a meaningless stat. Hahahha

Nobody cares about that stupid stat except someone really, really anallyyy retentive

[Levity]

Shitty poster though, amirite

[DoctorP]

Shitty poster though, amirite

hah

[305Baller]

Shitty poster though, amirite

embrace me

[Vino24]

Russell 8-peated. MJ would retire twice in that span.

[Rolando]

Bill Russell is getting on in years. Pretty sure when he passes away, everyone is going to step back and realize what he accomplished and what he's done for the sport in general.

[getting_old]

One of the greatest competitors in sports history, a killer instinct matched only by Michael Jordan in NBA history.

Owned Wilt totally, only lost once to him and Wilt had by far the better team for the last 5 years of their confrontations.

Absolute theft on gas fumes for the 1968 and especially the 1969 titles.

His rep fell as the game went to huge men after he left, but now that the giant is dead it is plausible for someone like Russell to dominate in this era.

[Phoenix]

One of the greatest competitors in sports history, a killer instinct matched only by Michael Jordan in NBA history.

Owned Wilt totally, only lost once to him and Wilt had by far the better team for the last 5 years of their confrontations.

Absolute theft on gas fumes for the 1968 and especially the 1969 titles.

His rep fell as the game went to huge men after he left, but now that the giant is dead it is plausible for someone like Russell to dominate in this era.

That's a good point. Traditional offensive bigs have kind of been de emphasized in the modern pace and space era. Russell was a very mobile big and he would probably adapt better to today than some of the more lumbering bigs who were not required to have a wider scope of court coverage. He may well be a Garnett type defensive quarterback today. Very similar physical attributes to KG as well.

[getting_old]

That's a good point. Traditional offensive bigs have kind of been de emphasized in the modern pace and space era. Russell was a very mobile big and he would probably adapt better to today than some of the more lumbering bigs who were not required to have a wider scope of court coverage. He may well be a Garnett type defensive quarterback today. Very similar physical attributes to KG as well.


McAdoo and Durant were also of this body type and with much influence in a game.

Russell simply went out there and won, gave up a lot of energy and piled on the stress taking on the coaching role as well.

And social pressures playing in Boston grinding on him every morning he work up.

[Axe]

Russell 8-peated. MJ would retire twice in that span.
Such a lousy bump

[getting_old]

Bill was a total warrior as a man and an athlete, marched to his own drum and has been a great rep of the game his whole life.

Not the friendliest cuddly man, not a PR shill, but he has lived his life as he dictated.

[fourkicks44]

What happened to OP?

Where's he at?

Back in Arkham?

[HylianNightmare]

As good an argument as any of the top 4 or 5 guys tbh

[3ball]

Bill Russell wasn't a dominant offensive player, so he isn't MVP-caliber in the modern era - since the 3-point line was instituted, all 40 league MVP's were dominant offensive players - so Russell isn't MVP-caliber in the modern era, which makes MJ's 6 rings as the best player the goat modern accomplishment (2 more than anyone else)

[getting_old]

one of the all-time greats for handling this moment with dignity and class, still remember it like it was 5 minutes ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg8kkzzHSTw

[Vino24]

Bill Russell wasn't a dominant offensive player, so he isn't MVP-caliber in the modern era - since the 3-point line was instituted, all 40 league MVP's were dominant offensive players - so Russell isn't MVP-caliber in the modern era, which makes MJ's 6 rings as the best player the goat modern accomplishment (2 more than anyone else)

Bill Russell would be an MVP in the modern era on defense alone. 20ppg would be enough for him because he would also have 20reb, 10ast and 10 blocks per game

[Soundwave]

Bill Russell wasn't even hitting 20 ppg in the 1950s/60s, why would that change now all of the sudden.

He would be a 14 ppg/14-15 rpg player in the modern game at best. Which is a great player, but not the greatest ever.

50s/60s basketball just was too raw, under-developed, basketball pre-ABA merger is just a different beast.

[light]

This dude won 8 rings in a row (THATS A DYNASTY) and COMPLETELY DOMINATED the league for almost a decade straight.

Defeated all-time players: Wilt, Oscar, Jabbar, West....

This guy was the defensive anchor and the go to on offense.

ANCHORED A DYNASTY

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

This is valid. Cant really argue with anyone that think Russell is the GOAT.

Same goes for MJ, LeBron and Kareem, etc.

[Marchesk]

On paper he should be the GOAT with a huge gap... to never be surpassed...

11 rings

With 8 HOF teammates.


5 mvps

MJ has 5, Kareem 6

Wilt probably should have had 5 instead of Russell.



and wait for it... ~11 FMVPs...

No, Sam Jones and Hondo would have won several, but maybe 7 for Bill.


and wait for it... ~11 DPOYs....

Nate Thurmond was around during part of Bill's career, and Wilt was a defensive anchor on the Lakers.


but.... context is a biatch...

You didn't provide any. The other GOATS have great offensive game which Russell lacked. As someone once said, Wilt could have been Russell on the Celtics, but Bill could never have been Wilt.

[Vino24]

They were HOFers because they played with Russell. OTOH when he retired they missed the playoffs. Goat impact

[Marchesk]

They were HOFers because they played with Russell. OTOH when he retired they missed the playoffs. Goat impact

Havlicek won two championships after Russell, and Cousy was an MVP before Russell. Sam Jones was also a legit HOFer and was known for being very clutch.

[Roundball_Rock]

Cousy was an MVP before Russell

Cousy's MVP came in Russell's rookie year.

Context matters to me--Russell had the super team of his era so it isn't shocking he won a lot more than Wilt (sometimes with 7 HOF players against 3 for Wilt's team). However, many fans simply tally rings to assess greatness. If that is someone's criteria, it is Russell in a landslide.


Havlicek won two championships after Russell

True--but because they sucked after Russell (despite being reigning champs when he retired) and were able to get a high pick and draft future MVP Dave Cowens, which allowed them to win in 74' and 76' (Russell retired in 69'). It wasn't the same team winning. They missed the playoffs altogether (34-48) after Russell retired which is how they were able to draft Cowens.

[getting_old]

Cousy's MVP came in Russell's rookie year.

Context matters to me--Russell had the super team of his era so it isn't shocking he won a lot more than Wilt (sometimes with 7 HOF players against 3 for Wilt's team). However, many fans simply tally rings to assess greatness. If that is someone's criteria, it is Russell in a landslide.



True--but because they sucked after Russell (despite being reigning champs when he retired) and were able to get a high pick and draft future MVP Dave Cowens, which allowed them to win in 74' and 76' (Russell retired in 69'). It wasn't the same team winning. They missed the playoffs altogether (34-48) after Russell retired which is how they were able to draft Cowens.


Poor Wilt, he had epic teams in 67 and 72 and they couldn't lose no matter what

Blew it in 68 and 69 against the C's, Wilts teams were so much better those seasons.

Wilted in 70 and 73 against the Knicks.

He wouldn't focus on winning, took all media ink to heart and held grudges. He was determined to be the assist leader one year and wouldn't shoot no matter his position with the ball two feet away from the hoop.

[Axe]

Poor Wilt, he had epic teams in 67 and 72 and they couldn't lose no matter what

Blew it in 68 and 69 against the C's, Wilts teams were so much better those seasons.

Wilted in 70 and 73 against the Knicks.

He wouldn't focus on winning, took all media ink to heart and held grudges. He was determined to be the assist leader one year and wouldn't shoot no matter his position with the ball two feet away from the hoop.
Wilt was another big victim of the dynasty, apart from jerry west and his lakers.

[Shooter]

This is valid. Cant really argue with anyone that think Russell is the GOAT.

Same goes for MJ, LeBron and Kareem, etc.

Top 5 without a doubt, in order


LBJ, KAJ, Russell, Shaq, MJ