The legends must be so jealous of guys from the video age. Digital age even more.

[Kblaze8855]

Not just the money and obvious comforts. But having what you did be almost entirely recorded.

I always wished we had a couple better angles of this Jordan alley.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NastyHardtofindBelugawhale-size_restricted.gif






People really dont appreciate the way young Jordan got up anymore. Too many nasty plays were lost due to the time or barely understood because of the camera angles. There are plays I saw back then ive never seen since and for someone like me who keeps track of everything like that it pisses me off. Hes the most well documented of the all time elites but you still never see it all.










These days there are 4 angles of every:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TinyOffbeatKookaburra-size_restricted.gif








You will never miss out on Gerald Green with his mustache at the rim.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ElementaryForcefulGrassspider-size_restricted.gif


But MJ was on some outrageous shit too on some blocks and rebounds....

As annoying as that is imagine how guys like Baylor and Connie Hawkins feel. 18 clips of them barely off the ground when they are 32 when everyone who saw them couldnt believe what they were doing.

Its the one thing that will help modern guys get longterm respect. A Steph/Lebron/Kobe/whoever highlight video in 80 years will still be crystal clear and pretty comprehensive.

Everyone before that? The real player? They live only in the memory of people who have started to die.


I guess I should just be thankful those days are over and nobody has to hear "He wasnt THAT nice old *****...." anymore. You can see exactly how nice these guys are/were even if you wont really understand their games from the highlights.

[eliteballer]

LeBron isn't as high as he looks from that angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-kolNcY53s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5M-oIbsemk

Last angle in both videos. His shoulders are well below the white line of the backboard.

[highwhey]

i don

[eliteballer]

[QUOTE=highwhey]i don

[eliteballer]

http://i29.tinypic.com/2152pt.jpg

[highwhey]

mj would still be a good athlete today, but the average nba player today would make it more difficult for him. he'd get abused by the stronger nba players (Bron, Kawhi, Giannis)

he'd get his sh1t pushed in if he tried dunking on myles turner or embiid.

[Elosha]

Not just the money and obvious comforts. But having what you did be almost entirely recorded.

I always wished we had a couple better angles of this Jordan alley.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NastyHardtofindBelugawhale-size_restricted.gif






People really dont appreciate the way young Jordan got up anymore. Too many nasty plays were lost due to the time or barely understood because of the camera angles. There are plays I saw back then ive never seen since and for someone like me who keeps track of everything like that it pisses me off. Hes the most well documented of the all time elites but you still never see it all.










These days there are 4 angles of every:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TinyOffbeatKookaburra-size_restricted.gif








You will never miss out on Gerald Green with his mustache at the rim.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ElementaryForcefulGrassspider-size_restricted.gif


But MJ was on some outrageous shit too on some blocks and rebounds....

As annoying as that is imagine how guys like Baylor and Connie Hawkins feel. 18 clips of them barely off the ground when they are 32 when everyone who saw them couldnt believe what they were doing.

Its the one thing that will help modern guys get longterm respect. A Steph/Lebron/Kobe/whoever highlight video in 80 years will still be crystal clear and pretty comprehensive.

Everyone before that? The real player? They live only in the memory of people who have started to die.


I guess I should just be thankful those days are over and nobody has to hear "He wasnt THAT nice old *****...." anymore. You can see exactly how nice these guys are/were even if you wont really understand their games from the highlights.

You know what's fascinating about that Jordan alley oop? It's almost for sure his first NBA dunk. I think this was the second game of his rookie season on the road against Milwaukee. His first game was a home game, and I don't think he had any dunks. He had a couple more in this game later on against Milwaukee, but this was clearly the first one of the game.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes apparently it was his first dunk:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkPzMm-1rw

[90sgoat]

I'm actually pissed the NBA hasn't digitalized more of their film. They've hardly digitalized anything.

How can a self respecting institution not want to showcase Wilt, Russel, Oscar, Kareem, Dr. J, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Hondo etc?

The NBA has all this film.

We've seen Nazi Germany come to life in splendid remastered color and quality time and time again, but the NBA which has more budget than Nat Geo and Discovery combined (many times), can't or won't remake those classic games?

Personally, I think there's a decision here, to not want it to compete with the modern game. The NBA is all about money and honestly a lot of fans would probably rather watch weekly reruns of Wilt or Dr. J, than watch two tanking teams.

Which is why I keep saying there need to be non-profit orgs in the US to handle things like this, so that a private enterprise won't **** it up due to being greedy.

[Kblaze8855]

I'm actually pissed the NBA hasn't digitalized more of their film. They've hardly digitalized anything.

How can a self respecting institution not want to showcase Wilt, Russel, Oscar, Kareem, Dr. J, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Hondo etc?

The NBA has all this film.

We've seen Nazi Germany come to life in splendid remastered color and quality time and time again, but the NBA which has more budget than Nat Geo and Discovery combined (many times), can't or won't remake those classic games?

Personally, I think there's a decision here, to not want it to compete with the modern game. The NBA is all about money and honestly a lot of fans would probably rather watch weekly reruns of Wilt or Dr. J, than watch two tanking teams.

Which is why I keep saying there need to be non-profit orgs in the US to handle things like this, so that a private enterprise won't **** it up due to being greedy.



There are people doing it out of their own pockets now. One youtuber contacted a lot of us asking for donations and hes paying 225 dollars a game to digitize full games from the 60s and 70s for virtually no appreciation. The shit is out there. You gotta go directly to the old tv stations and buy their original copies....but you can get it. The NBA is content to show you the same 20 clips of everyone when there is so much to learn.

A guy had to come out of his pocket for footage online to exist of Wilt shooting midrange jumpers....


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HighlevelOblongGuillemot-size_restricted.gif


So I cant even blame fans for thinking he couldnt. The NBA just wont put in the work.

[tontoz]

mj would still be a good athlete today, but the average nba player today would make it more difficult for him. he'd get abused by the stronger nba players (Bron, Kawhi, Giannis)

he'd get his sh1t pushed in if he tried dunking on myles turner or embiid.


:roll:


Centers today suck compared to the centers then. I would take DRob, Hakeem, Shaq, and Ewing over any center today.

Gobert is a lesser version of Mutombo.

Jordan dunked on all of them. The Knicks front line was stronger by far than any front line today. Ewing/Oakley/Mason/Xman ..... if today's players had to go back in time and play against those guys under the old rules they would probably wet themselves.

[Marchesk]

i don’t think they are jelous bc many if not all of them would be scrubs against the competition of today. mj looks like his athleticism outclasses everyone on the court, but that’s bc he played against milk men.

nowadays we have superior athletes that play smarter defense.

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/poster/8/10/break/images/artworkimages/medium/2/spud-webb-reverse-dunk-slam-dunk-andrew-d-bernstein.jpg

https://www.opencourt-basketball.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/shawn-kemp-supersonics.jpg

[Marchesk]

mj would still be a good athlete today, but the average nba player today would make it more difficult for him. he'd get abused by the stronger nba players (Bron, Kawhi, Giannis)

he'd get his sh1t pushed in if he tried dunking on myles turner or embiid.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/8c/21/928c2188f8e0d74d577daa226142f002.jpg

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-01-2015/_oSP2G.gif

[Airupthere]

mj would still be a good athlete today, but the average nba player today would make it more difficult for him. he'd get abused by the stronger nba players (Bron, Kawhi, Giannis)

he'd get his sh1t pushed in if he tried dunking on myles turner or embiid.

:facepalm

[egokiller]

Let's be honest with ourselves. Footage of MJ in practice would be better than watching full actual games played today. BJ Armstrong is always talking about how he wishes there was footage of the Bulls practices so that people could really know what MJ was all about.

[highwhey]

it's not even debatable that athlecism has increase significantly bc of sports medicine, nutrition, etc all advancing.

it;s like trying to debate that a 90's tv is better than a 2019 oled 4k tv :oldlol:

[Airupthere]

it's not even debatable that athlecism has increase significantly bc of sports medicine, nutrition, etc all advancing.

it;s like trying to debate that a 90's tv is better than a 2019 oled 4k tv :oldlol:

The analogy is not helping at all. Not saying 90s players are more athletic. But you claiming jordan will be a pushover vs todays big men is :confusedshrug:

[tontoz]

it's not even debatable that athlecism has increase significantly bc of sports medicine, nutrition, etc all advancing.

it;s like trying to debate that a 90's tv is better than a 2019 oled 4k tv :oldlol:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-g7hwxEJ2zE/hqdefault.jpg

https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/141806e78eb7b4cd3e9eadd94e20f104_crop_exact_zpsi3g kqugw.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/141806e78eb7b4cd3e9eadd94e20f104_crop_exact_zpsi3g kqugw.jpg.html)

https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/WbC6vKKrCbQRfPJm9hKEDK1I81w=/800x527/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/RD6GPD2P3HLALZMMQ54KRBPCUQ.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51p9IivlilL.jpg


The main differences in the league now vs then are:

-far more international players.
-more shooters
-more depth at pg

There is no center today that would be even 2rd team All-NBA in the 90s, even 3rd team would be a reach. There is no power forward even close to Malone or Barkley.

The league is so soft that string bean Durant plays the 4 effectively.Big men today just don't measure up to the 90s.

I would say the 3 position is more talented today then back then but it has nothing to do with nutrition or evolution or whatever, it has to do with rare freaks like Lebron, Durant and Giannis
(although i am not even sure how to classify Giannis).

[highwhey]

^ lol.

we have players just as strong as those players but with higher verticals and more overall athleticism.

ayton has a 43" vertical

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1170423821951619073/2DAEyEVI_400x400.jpg

proof of 43" vert:
https://www.facebook.com/theScore/videos/7-footer-deandre-ayton-shows-off-435-inch-vertical/10159541276097037/

only, they have to deal with players like giannis and joel embiid. jordan never had to face a superteam like the warriors.

[highwhey]

Deandre Ayton: 7'1 260lbs 43.5" vert, 300lb+ bench, 900lb leg press, 5.4% npdy fat :eek:

could centers back then keep up with kyrie?

https://arizonasports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ayton-celtics.jpg

[NBAGOAT]

There is no center today that would be even 2rd team All-NBA in the 90s, even 3rd team would be a reach. There is no power forward even close to Malone or Barkley.

The league is so soft that string bean Durant plays the 4 effectively.Big men today just don't measure up to the 90s.

I would say the 3 position is more talented today then back then but it has nothing to do with nutrition or evolution or whatever, it has to do with rare freaks like Lebron, Durant and Giannis
(although i am not even sure how to classify Giannis).

it's a technicality but giannis is absolutely a 4. Also ad I think at least this year comes close to malone and barkley but i'm ok with counting him as a 5. The center thing is absolutely true but the 90s is a huge outlier with 4 of the top 8 centers of all time playing at the same time.

[highwhey]

funny you mention the 90's pf, yet the best PF of all time is Duncan.

[tontoz]

Deandre Ayton: 7'1 260lbs 43.5" vert, 300lb+ bench, 900lb leg press, 5.4% npdy fat :eek:

could centers back then keep up with kyrie?

https://arizonasports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ayton-celtics.jpg


It just shows how weak your argument is that you have to reference a guy in his second season who has played only 1 game this year.

Slow footed Jokic was 1st team All-NBA last year and it wasn't because of nutrition. :lol

Kyrie doesn't get past people because of speed. He does it with elite handles and the threat of his 3 pt shot. His skills are elite. His athleticism and IQ aren't.

In a full court sprint i have no doubt that 7'2 Drob was faster, and he would have a tougher time finishing in a crowded lane of the 90s against stronger bigs. The spacing wasn't the same back then.
He would get beat up just like Isiah/KJ/Price did. The lane was a dangerous place for small guards.

[tontoz]

funny you mention the 90's pf, yet the best PF of all time is Duncan.


who was drafted in '97.

Some consider him a center, but either way he wasnt known for athleticism. He was known for size and skills.

[Marchesk]

it;s like trying to debate that a 90's tv is better than a 2019 oled 4k tv :oldlol:

Evolution doesn't work like that.

I wonder what Luka's vertical is.

[highwhey]

who was drafted in '97.

Some consider him a center, but either way he wasnt known for athleticism. He was known for size and skills.
thats why i said prime. and this era has both superior athleticism and skill.

[highwhey]

Evolution doesn't work like that.

I wonder what Luka's vertical is.
luka is already near prime mj levels tbh, and this is just his 2nd season.

[warriorfan]

highwhey is fat even with modern day nutrition and training, imagine how obese he would be in the 90

[Marchesk]

Deandre Ayton: 7'1 260lbs 43.5" vert, 300lb+ bench, 900lb leg press, 5.4% npdy fat :eek:

could centers back then keep up with kyrie?

https://arizonasports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ayton-celtics.jpg


You mean like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and Orlando Shaq?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/04/6c/5f046c60a014e5b97781af1542a8369a.gif


https://statics.sportskeeda.com/editor/2018/10/09478-15389279141146-800.jpg

https://media3.giphy.com/media/sOVueselOTje8/giphy.gif

[Marchesk]

luka is already near prime mj levels tbh, and this is just his 2nd season.

You're really wanting to get 3Ball posting, aren't you?

Let's see Luka do prime MJ in the playoffs.

[tontoz]

thats why i said prime. and this era has both superior athleticism and skill.




Better shooting skill overall for sure, but i don't see anyone with the post moves of Hakeem, the overpowering size and strength of Shaq, the length/strength/speed of Drob.

The 90s isn't the stone ages. Elite centers in the NBA are freaks of nature and they come around randomly. They aren't the product of better sports nutrition. :lol

[Airupthere]

luka is already near prime mj levels tbh, and this is just his 2nd season.

Are you basing everything on stats? Totally different styles of play and skillsets.

[highwhey]

You mean like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and Orlando Shaq?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/04/6c/5f046c60a014e5b97781af1542a8369a.gif


https://statics.sportskeeda.com/editor/2018/10/09478-15389279141146-800.jpg

https://media3.giphy.com/media/sOVueselOTje8/giphy.gif
i was talking about defensively on the perimeter, of course they will destroy 6'2 guards on offense or at the rim :confusedshrug:

[highwhey]

Are you basing everything on stats? Totally different styles of play and skillsets.
i'm basing it off W's

[Marchesk]

jordan never had to face a superteam like the warriors.

https://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/legacy/main_photo/jordan_110420.jpg

[highwhey]

https://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/legacy/main_photo/jordan_110420.jpg
those players look far more athletic than your average 2019 nba player


:roll:

[tontoz]

luka is already near prime mj levels tbh, and this is just his 2nd season.


Like i said, the international players coming to the NBA is a big difference vs the 90s. They were few back then. When Toni Kukoc came to the Bulls that was a big deal.

Manu Ginobili was drafted at the end of the 2nd round and was a rookie at age 25. That wouldn't happen now. He would be in the NBA at 19 or 20 for sure.

Luka isn't dominating because of athleticism or nutrition. He is dominating with skills developed as a professional for several years in Europe. But let's be real he isn't exactly MJ on defense. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Highweight

[highwhey]

Like i said, the international players coming to the NBA is a big difference vs the 90s. They were few back then. When Toni Kukoc came to the Bulls that was a big deal.

Manu Ginobili was drafted at the end of the 2nd round and was a rookie at age 25. That wouldn't happen now.

Luka isn't dominating because of athleticism or nutrition. He is dominating with skills developed as a professional for several years in Europe. But let's be real he isn't exactly MJ on defense. :oldlol:
so you just made my point, MJ didn't have to face an entire untapped market (Europe), which means he faced LESSER competition.

[Marchesk]

those players look far more athletic than your average 2019 nba player


:roll:

You realize that guys like this washed out of league?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca9QvAsUMAAT3EN.jpg

And those Celtics teams were beating teams like the Atlanta Hawks, Philadelphia 76ers and Milwaukee Bucks in the playoffs, who all had very athletic and well built players like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8c/7a/0b/8c7a0bcd8c8b5e0d8415afdc01d90131.gif

2 Time Defensive Player of the Year:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51UzT-tJKVL.jpg

And of course Dr J:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ugW1oJuG7eo/hqdefault.jpg

[highwhey]

el chapo was superior to other drug kingpins bc he tapped the european market.

it's almost like there's a lot more to the world than america. :lol

[SomeBlackDude]

better athlete- orlando shaq or present day jokic? :confusedshrug:


so you just made my point, MJ didn't have to face an entire untapped market (Europe), which means he faced LESSER competition.

how'd it work out for the continent of europe when mj and the dream team went to see them in the olympics?

meanwhile team usa gets their shit pushed in by the likes of serbia and france today.

shame of a nation.

:facepalm

[Airupthere]

so you just made my point, MJ didn't have to face an entire untapped market (Europe), which means he faced LESSER competition.

I don’t completely disagree with you. Gameplay has changed. Overall players are more skilled, they shoot better and have better handles, and on average are more athletic (but not as much as your tv analogy). Your point of view that jordan cant hang around in the paint with the likes of miles turner is ridiculous.

[highwhey]

[QUOTE=Airupthere]I don

[Marchesk]

how'd it work out for the continent of europe when mj and the dream team went to see them in the olympics?


I think Kukoc's team got within 30, which was the most competitive game. Back then everyone thought there was a wide talent gap, with a few exceptions, some of who did eventually go play in the NBA, like Sabonis.

[Marchesk]

listen, i'll concede you the point that he could slam some dunks on centers of today.

but with the likes of kawhi, he would not be anywhere as sucessful as he was in the 90's. could he even get a W in the playoffs against the monster warriors squad? i doubt it.

So healthy playoff-mode Kawhi Leonard will be guarding Jordan every game all season long?

BTW, that 96 Bulls squad had the best group of perimeter defenders of all-time. Give them a season to adjust to the three point shooting and watch film of Curry, and they would absolutely make it a series.

I think they beat the 2016 Warriors, but Durant might tip the edge in 2017.

[Airupthere]

listen, i'll concede you the point that he could slam some dunks on centers of today.

but with the likes of kawhi, he would not be anywhere as sucessful as he was in the 90's. could he even get a W in the playoffs against the monster warriors squad? i doubt it.

Would you say kawhi is a much better defender and more athletic than pippen? Is kawhi a monster that jordan wont be able to handle? No way.

As for the W thats a different matter. A lot of factors will play into that as it is a team game. Are taking the exact 90s bulls with mj? Too much hypotheticals.

[Airupthere]

Lol pardon my english as it is not my native language. Dont want to bother to edit now.

[SomeBlackDude]

I think Kukoc's team got within 30, which was the most competitive game.

that squad had

kukoc (atg 6th man)
petrovic (all nba. rip)
radja (17/8/2 career in the nba)
tabak

all played in the nba, all had nice careers.

as a group, the best they could muster was a 30 pt ass whooping against the dream team.

but mj wouldn't be able to dunk on super athlete jokic today.

:yaohappy:

[tanibanana]

There is a back-flip side of it. Today, everything is recorded, and magnified to most extent both highlights and lowlights.

Imagine the turnovers and bonehead plays of the great players before (like Magic, Jordan, Dr.J, etc), being used for memes and gifs. That would be atrocious.

Likewise, in 50 years from now, current players will be jealous of something, that they wish was already around during their time. (example: LED screen courts, or 3D real life movement players for practice games, etc.).

Also, todays players perhaps are also jealous of something previous players they have that is no longer happening today (e.g. less criticism).

[Marchesk]

Also, todays players perhaps are also jealous of something previous players they have that is no longer happening today (e.g. less criticism).


Yeah, that's the downside. Any misstep these days and social media is all over it. And you have people posting 24/7 on basketball forums hating on certain players. That wasn't a thing back then. Maybe you would call in to the radio show to complain, or just talk shit with your friends while watching a game.

[tontoz]

I bet Lebron wishes he could delete all of his flopping gifs from the internet...






https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/lebron-flop-3_zpsk91twbwx.gif (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/lebron-flop-3_zpsk91twbwx.gif.html)