We went from underrating to grossly overrating the Jazz in a heartbeat

[Ass Dan]

they will have a good regular season with their collection of B+ talent.

BUT

what have any of these B+ talents ever done? And what can they do in the playoffs?

Their starting lineup:

PG - Mike Conley(the savior and difference maker) - career highlight: 17th in MVP voting and 0 ASG selections.

SG - Donovan Mitchell (the superstar in the making) - career highlight: all rookie 1st team and 0 ASG selections.

SF - Bojan Bogdanović (glue guy, sneaky good signing) - career highlight: 2nd team all rookie and 0 ASG selections.

SF - Joe Ingles (guy who isn't as shit as we thought he was) - career highlight: being a serviceable NBA player.

C - Rudy Gobert (shot blocking defensive big) - career highlight: 2 x defensive player of the year.

Upon examination, Gobert is the only real star on the team, yet ironically someone who can be taken out of the game when the opposition goes small.

I think this team is nice, but only because I am a basketball nerds and these players are all well liked by people who know too much about basketball.

This is a forest for the trees team who will have a nice regular season but will have their ass handed to them in round one or two.

They could not beat:
Denver
LAC
LAL
Houston
Portland
GSW

in a 7 game series.

[Uncle Drew]

They would 100% beat the Blazers, lol.

[iamgine]

I'm not sure grossly overrating is the right word. They were already a 50 win team. They've got a massive upgrade at two key starting positions. Their budding star is expected to enter his official prime next season. Maybe they're not better than the top 3-4 teams but the difference isn't much. They will be a top 5 defense and top 10 offense. IMO they can hang with any team in the West.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not sure grossly overrating is the right word. They were already a 50 win team. They've got a massive upgrade at two key starting positions. Their budding star is expected to enter his official prime next season. Maybe they're not better than the top 3-4 teams but the difference isn't much. They will be a top 5 defense and top 10 offense. IMO they can hang with any team in the West.

bingo

[ImKobe]

OP seems to be underrating the Jazz here.

Conley's a good 2-way player who's had to compete with CP3, Westbrook & Steph for ASG selections out West so it's no surprise he's at 0, would have multiple ASG selections out East

Mitchell already showed you he could lead a team to 50+ wins and a Playoff series win against PG and Westbrook his rookie year

Bojan - good 3-point shooter, got the Pacers to the Playoffs when Oladipo went down

Ingles - another sniper from three with point-forward abilities

Gobert - arguably the best defensive big man in the league and gives you the most efficient 15 points per game in the league


They definitely have a squad that can win 50-60 games, all of these guys have some Playoff experience as well and are relatively young and played a high number of games last season, I think Conley's the only one you would worry about health-wise here. No superstars but Mitchell is on pace to become one.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bogdanovic is an 18 ppg on 50% player, he's an all-star.. big 4 for the Jazz

[CakeorDeath]

what have any of these B+ talents ever done?

The problem you have is that you don

[Xiao Yao You]

they will have a good regular season with their collection of B+ talent.

BUT

what have any of these B+ talents ever done? And what can they do in the playoffs?

Their starting lineup:

PG - Mike Conley(the savior and difference maker) - career highlight: 17th in MVP voting and 0 ASG selections.

SG - Donovan Mitchell (the superstar in the making) - career highlight: all rookie 1st team and 0 ASG selections.

SF - Bojan Bogdanović (glue guy, sneaky good signing) - career highlight: 2nd team all rookie and 0 ASG selections.

SF - Joe Ingles (guy who isn't as shit as we thought he was) - career highlight: being a serviceable NBA player.

C - Rudy Gobert (shot blocking defensive big) - career highlight: 2 x defensive player of the year.

Upon examination, Gobert is the only real star on the team, yet ironically someone who can be taken out of the game when the opposition goes small.

I think this team is nice, but only because I am a basketball nerds and these players are all well liked by people who know too much about basketball.

This is a forest for the trees team who will have a nice regular season but will have their ass handed to them in round one or two.

They could not beat:
Denver
LAC
LAL
Houston
Portland
GSW

in a 7 game series.

Cousins is an all-star and I wouldn't ever want him on my team! Rudy is a two time all-NBA selection and has been one of the top players in the game. Gobert won't be take out of the game if he has spacing around him. Been over 4 years since he emerged and they've yet to build a team around him until now. When they benched Favors at the end of Hayward's last season because of his knees and put Joe Johnson/corpse of Diaw at the 4 and Hill was at the 1 not Bricky Rudy put up over 17 points a game. They've finally built a team around him Watch out. Great D and great O for the first time!

They've matched up well with GS the past couple years. No Durant and Klay coming off an ACL they are the superior team. Their D was good enough to beat Houston the past two years. Crappy offense did them in. No one is going to want to play them.

[Xiao Yao You]

OP seems to be underrating the Jazz here.

Conley's a good 2-way player who's had to compete with CP3, Westbrook & Steph for ASG selections out West so it's no surprise he's at 0, would have multiple ASG selections out East

Mitchell already showed you he could lead a team to 50+ wins and a Playoff series win against PG and Westbrook his rookie year

Bojan - good 3-point shooter, got the Pacers to the Playoffs when Oladipo went down

Ingles - another sniper from three with point-forward abilities

Gobert - arguably the best defensive big man in the league and gives you the most efficient 15 points per game in the league


They definitely have a squad that can win 50-60 games, all of these guys have some Playoff experience as well and are relatively young and played a high number of games last season, I think Conley's the only one you would worry about health-wise here. No superstars but Mitchell is on pace to become one.

Mitchell wasn't leading them anywhere. They have been one of the worst teams in the league when Gobert hasn't played.

[LostCause]

[QUOTE=CakeorDeath]The problem you have is that you don

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=CakeorDeath]The problem you have is that you don

[ralph_i_el]

Conely was an ASG snub multiple times.

There's a good chance Donovan makes the jump to all star level this year.

Bogdanovich was putting up 20+ ppg on elite efficiency after Dipo went down. He saved the Pacers season.

Ingles is a stretch 4 who can handle the ball. Players like that help take a good offense to the next level.

Gobert made huge strides as a cutter and role man last year. He was high-impact on both ends. He had over 300 dunks last year, which is one of the most ever in a season.

These are all guys who have well defined roles and play team basketball. I'd much rather watch them than a team of 2 superstars and 10 corpses, like the Lakers.

I hadn't seen Cakeordeath's post, but he says all this better than me.

[Xiao Yao You]

Conely was an ASG snub multiple times.

There's a good chance Donovan makes the jump to all star level this year.

Bogdanovich was putting up 20+ ppg on elite efficiency after Dipo went down. He saved the Pacers season.

Ingles is a stretch 4 who can handle the ball. Players like that help take a good offense to the next level.

Gobert made huge strides as a cutter and role man last year. He was high-impact on both ends.

These are all guys who have well defined roles and play team basketball. I'd much rather watch them than a team of 2 superstars and 10 corpses, like the Lakers.

Ingles hasn't played much 4. Might change this year?

[ralph_i_el]

Last season Rubio and Cowder took a combined 10.2 3's a game....and hit 3.4

33.33%


This season Conley and Bogdanovich will be shooting those 3's.

Last season Conley shot 36% on over 6 attempts per game
Bogdanovich shot 42.5% on almost 5 attempts.

Obviously you can't say this for certain, but if Conley and Bogdanovich had been shooting the shots Rubio and Crowder had, the Jazz would have hit on average 1 more 3 pointer per game.

3 points per game is the difference between a decent playoff team and a contender. 3ppg was the difference between Golden State and OKC last season.

[Xiao Yao You]

Last season Rubio and Cowder took a combined 10.2 3's a game....and hit 3.4

33.33%


This season Conley and Bogdanovich will be shooting those 3's.

Last season Conley shot 36% on over 6 attempts per game
Bogdanovich shot 42.5% on almost 5 attempts.

Obviously you can't say this for certain, but if Conley and Bogdanovich had been shooting the shots Rubio and Crowder had, the Jazz would have hit on average 1 more 3 pointer per game.

3 points per game is the difference between a decent playoff team and a contender. 3ppg was the difference between Golden State and OKC last season.

and Gobert set a record for dunks. Either Conley, Mitchell or Bojan will score or Rudy will get a lob or there will be an open 3 from someone that can hit them. From mediocre offense to good luck stopping them

[warriorfan]

Op using ASG selections as a primary criteria for evaluation...



Kid has fried his brain reading Dray n Klay posts

[superduper]

Op using ASG selections as a primary criteria for evaluation...



Kid has fried his brain reading Dray n Klay posts

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

Mitchell wasn't leading them anywhere. They have been one of the worst teams in the league when Gobert hasn't played.

I remember them losing Gobert during their most brutal stretch of the season, I believe they had a long road trip against all the top teams in the league without him so that's unfair to call them one of the worst teams based on that sample size. He's obviously valuable to them on both ends but your team still needs Donovan to be a superstar in order to make it anywhere in the Playoffs.

[Xiao Yao You]

I remember them losing Gobert during their most brutal stretch of the season, I believe they had a long road trip against all the top teams in the league without him so that's unfair to call them one of the worst teams based on that sample size. He's obviously valuable to them on both ends but your team still needs Donovan to be a superstar in order to make it anywhere in the Playoffs.

When he first emerged in December of 2014 they were tanking and were as bad as anyone. After the Kanter trade they were the 6th best team in the league the rest of that year.

Instead of getting the vet pg they needed they continued to act like they were tanking and added Neto and Pleiss. Rudy missed a month which cost them the playoffs because they were again horrible without him.

The next year they finally acted liked they wanted to compete since it was Hayward's last season. He went down in the playoffs and that was the only time while very brief that they looked decent without him.

The next year he missed a couple months and they sucked again without him. He came back and they were again once of the best teams in the league to finish the year.

They might finally have a team this year that won't suck without him but it's hard to imagine them being great without him. Their offense and defense revolves around him.

But keep giving Lindsey, Snyder, Mitchell and everyone else the credit if you choose! :roll: