Little Mermaid Controversy [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Real Men Wear Green

07-07-2019, 12:44 PM

I don't care about the little mermaid specifically, I'm talking movies in general at the moment.. if you look at the overall box office numbers, people aren't going to the cinema as much the last few years.

I don't get the black people cheering for this shit movie anyway, don't you want a new unique black character? Not some woke hand me down shit. Especially when swimming is involved :lolSo if you weren't going to see thr movie anyway why care? If we are going to get technical about it the original fairy tale heroine was green. Speaking to your greater outrage which of the original Marvel comic characters are you complaining about? The only Marvel characters I can think of that got switched from comics to screen are Nick Fury, Mar Vell, the Ancient One and Jeryn Hogarth. None of the moves hurt the story and if you look at the overall box office numbers for Marvel you will drop your argument entirely. And that's 4 (though I am possibly forgetting some) out of hundreds of characters.

If you get worked up over this you're just looking for a reason to be upset.

DaHeezy

07-07-2019, 12:57 PM

So if you weren't going to see thr movie anyway why care? If we are going to get technical about it the original fairy tale heroine was green. Speaking to your greater outrage which of the original Marvel comic characters are you complaining about? The only Marvel characters I can think of that got switched from comics to screen are Nick Fury, Mar Vell, the Ancient One and Jeryn Hogarth. None of the moves hurt the story and if you look at the overall box office numbers for Marvel you will drop your argument entirely. And that's 4 (though I am possibly forgetting some) out of hundreds of characters.

If you get worked up over this you're just looking for a reason to be upset.

Those characters mentioned are just backdrop for Cap, Ironman, Thor, and Spidey. Had the front 4 been deviated it would have completely bombed TMU

A clearer example is Ghostbusters

Changing characters to fit a social narrative is just cringe.

Real Men Wear Green

07-07-2019, 01:16 PM

Those characters mentioned are just backdrop for Cap, Ironman, Thor, and Spidey. Had the front 4 been deviated it would have completely bombed TMUHmm. So, first of all, I was pointing out that very little of what coin and others like him are complaining about has actually happened with Marvel

But if it did...so? I guess that if you are a racist you may not have watched Thor with Idris Elba as the star. But there are a lot of people that don't watch movies just so that we can stare at white men, and for those of us that don't just love to stare at Chris Helmsworth's bare chest and watch for other reasons like story, action, humor, etc. a handsome white male is not needed for us to enjoy a movie.

A clearer example is Ghostbusters

Changing characters to fit a social narrative is just cringe.Theproblem with that movie is that it sucked. I do actually agree that making a movie just to fit around a social agenda is a bad idea. That doesn't mean that Wonder Woman wasn't a great superhero movie or that the first two seasons (not so much the third) of Jessica Jones wasn't quality.

coin24

07-07-2019, 01:37 PM

Shogon

07-07-2019, 01:40 PM

Theproblem with that movie is that it sucked. I do actually agree that making a movie just to fit around a social agenda is a bad idea. That doesn't mean that Wonder Woman wasn't a great superhero movie or that the first two seasons (not so much the third) of Jessica Jones wasn't quality.

The problem with that movie isn't just as simple as "it sucked."

The problem with that movie was almost assuredly ALWAYS going to be that women straight up aren't as funny as men. This isn't a sexist statement. Generally speaking, it's rooted in cold hard fact. There is an evolutionary reason for this being the case... much in the same way that men are physically superior and tend to be not as emotionally nurturing.

There are probably less than a handful funny mostly female/all female comedies throughout the history of cinema, and it's not because of a bunch of racist and sexist white men being in charge.

As far as the OP goes... do I think it's stupid they're making her black? Yeah, I do. Mainly because there is no need to do it other than trying to pander to today's social climate. That is literally the only reason they're doing it. But am I upset? No, I don't care. If she does a good job, great... if she doesn't, great.

Will we see a remake of Pocahontas being an extremely white chick next? No? I wonder why though... lulz.

ArbitraryWater

07-07-2019, 01:42 PM

So if you weren't going to see thr movie anyway why care? If we are going to get technical about it the original fairy tale heroine was green. Speaking to your greater outrage which of the original Marvel comic characters are you complaining about? The only Marvel characters I can think of that got switched from comics to screen are Nick Fury, Mar Vell, the Ancient One and Jeryn Hogarth. None of the moves hurt the story and if you look at the overall box office numbers for Marvel you will drop your argument entirely. And that's 4 (though I am possibly forgetting some) out of hundreds of characters.

If you get worked up over this you're just looking for a reason to be upset.

this is such a weak and giving up argument.

as far as ariel goes, i dont even care but theyre shitting on the whole origin. ariel was a different character lol

Shogon

07-07-2019, 01:46 PM

It's only starting now with marvel though, captain marvel was utter shit and spider man looks more like soyboy who drinks spider webs in the public pool..

Black mj who's not mj?

I have nothing against female leads or black actors at all. It's the forced sjw agenda crap that I don't like.. I'm not upset about it, I'm just not going to support it..

Ghostbusters, oceans 8 etc, captain marvel, the new Star Wars... no thanks
Even that trailer for the new terminator is cringe

Captain Marvel was indeed utter dog shit. If they think she's going to be the Tony Stark of the next phase... lulz. Nope.

Spider-Man was extremely well done.

I was initially upset that MJ was not a redhead, forget about her skin color, but after actually seeing the movie, I am fine with it. I enjoyed her performance and she's cute.

New Star-Wars was indeed utter dog shit but I don't think that's because of a female lead. It's because it didn't add anything to the universe.

coin24

07-07-2019, 02:33 PM

There's a difference between a female lead and having a mainly female cast, and some forced agenda femnazi woke bulshit ..

Wonder Woman was great, so was bridesmaids, anything starring Emily Blunt (strong female lead) is always watchable..

The new men in black (people in black) trash. Then again even the studio must have known this was trash then tried to sell it as female empowerment crap. Only problem is that people don't pay to watch those movies. Hence the flop of female ghostbusters and oceans 8.
They sold captain marvel as a must see to lead into end game, let's see how part 2 goes for the brietardson...

But back onto the #notmyariel I think most people are just questioning why..

Real Men Wear Green

07-07-2019, 02:42 PM

It's only starting now with marvel though, captain marvel was utter shit and spider man looks more like soyboy who drinks spider webs in the public pool..

Black mj who's not mj?
They may have lost your support but Marvel is going to continue to crank out billion-dollar blockbusters.
The problem with that movie isn't just as simple as "it sucked."

The problem with that movie was almost assuredly ALWAYS going to be that women straight up aren't as funny as men. This isn't a sexist statement. Generally speaking, it's rooted in cold hard fact. There is an evolutionary reason for this being the case... much in the same way that men are physically superior and tend to be not as emotionally nurturing. I don't feel like wasting time posting a long list of movies with female leads that succeeded. Do you really need that kind of thing pointed out to you? Prime example is that Cap Marvel movie you guys can't stop hating on. You personally don't find women as entertaining. That's an entirely subjective preference. In reality ther body important thing for any movie is the artist's and direction. That's why Cap Marvel, Wonder Woman, etc succeeded. The Ghostbusters remake failed because it was a terrible idea from jump (honestly I didn't watch it because between the trailers and concept I could tell tell it was bad). Spy hornet was a success and it starred Melissa McCarthy. Why? Because Paul Feig had funny ideas that he used to create a movie in one case and in the other was just trying to put a movie together around feminism.

egokiller

07-07-2019, 02:46 PM

coin24

07-07-2019, 03:11 PM

I think if they ever make a new Hulk movie, he should be blue. Why should he be green when we can remake him as a blue character so that we can appease those who like the color blue more so than green, as that viewer base that likes blue is obviously under represented since the original hulk wasn't the color of their choosing. :roll:

Sometimes you just have to point and laugh at the stupidity of it all.

Maybe we should get some pale white person with red hair who's of Irish decent play Jasmine if they ever made an Aladdin movie. Let's "mix it up" because that's the new cool thing to do apparently. :oldlol:

It only works a certain way, otherwise you're a homophobic, racist, toxic masculinity etc:oldlol:
What a time

NumberSix

07-07-2019, 04:37 PM

I don’t care about the little mermaid and it’s not something I would have watched regardless of what color the mermaid is.

That being said, I do generally fall on the side of people who are annoyed when they cast a person who doesn’t fit the look or personality of an established character.

It’s annoying when a character who is supposed to be a big dude that’s like 6’5 is cast to some 5’9 actor. it’s annoying when they removed details from characters like the Targaryans having violet eyes.

One of my favorite X-Men characters when I was a kid was Bishop. It would be f*cking stupid if they cast Justin Beiber to play Bishop, and yes, it’s absolutely because he’s the wrong color in addition to being the wrong size, etc.

Sometimes it can work. For example, Wolverine is supposed to be like 5’5. He’s supposed to be a short dude. Hugh Jackman looks like he’s probably like 6’2 or 6’3, but it works. But there are limits. If they cast Shaq to play Wolverine, you can’t really blame X-Men fans being like “uh, that’s not Wolverine.”

Shogon

07-07-2019, 05:07 PM

They may have lost your support but Marvel is going to continue to crank out billion-dollar blockbusters. I don't feel like wasting time posting a long list of movies with female leads that succeeded. Do you really need that kind of thing pointed out to you? Prime example is that Cap Marvel movie you guys can't stop hating on. You personally don't find women as entertaining. That's an entirely subjective preference. In reality ther body important thing for any movie is the artist's and direction. That's why Cap Marvel, Wonder Woman, etc succeeded. The Ghostbusters remake failed because it was a terrible idea from jump (honestly I didn't watch it because between the trailers and concept I could tell tell it was bad). Spy hornet was a success and it starred Melissa McCarthy. Why? Because Paul Feig had funny ideas that he used to create a movie in one case and in the other was just trying to put a movie together around feminism.

You couldn't name 15 fantastic female comedies if your life depended on it. lol.

You could almost pick any year in the 90s and find damn near 15 fantastic male comedies in THAT ONE YEAR.

Please... PLEASE link to me all of the funny female standup specials that you can find on YouTube. Please do that. I'll be waiting.

:roll:

Stupid ****ing social justice warrior idiot.

Women aren't as funny as men. It's not a matter of taste. It's a fact. Out of biological necessity.

nathanjizzle

07-07-2019, 05:30 PM

non issue. that black girl looks perfect for the role though.

CelticBaller

07-07-2019, 05:43 PM

Real Men Wear Green

07-07-2019, 06:01 PM

You couldn't name 15 fantastic female comedies if your life depended on it. lol.

You could almost pick any year in the 90s and find damn near 15 fantastic male comedies in THAT ONE YEAR.

Please... PLEASE link to me all of the funny female standup specials that you can find on YouTube. Please do that. I'll be waiting.

:roll:

Stupid ****ing social justice warrior idiot.

Women aren't as funny as men. It's not a matter of taste. It's a fact. Out of biological necessity.Here you go again losing your mind. Biological necessity... fascinating. But guess what? Melissa McCarthy and others have still been highly successful comic actresses so your point missed mine. Women don't star in as many movies but there are plenty of examples of their movies succeeding. I have said nothing about who had done more successful films. That's all you going off on your tangent. Like talking about stand up. Where did I or anyone other than you mention stand up? The subject is movies, go take your meds.

qrich

07-07-2019, 06:03 PM

Can't wait until we get an Asian Harriet Tubman, a Mexican Harry Potter and a white Bruce Lee

Shogon

07-07-2019, 06:11 PM

Here you go again losing your mind. Biological necessity... fascinating. But guess what? Melissa McCarthy and others have still been highly successful comic actresses so your point missed mine. Women don't star in as many movies but there are plenty of examples of their movies succeeding. I have said nothing about who had done more successful films. That's all you going off on your tangent. Like talking about stand up. Where did I or anyone other than you mention stand up? The subject is movies, go take your meds.

:facepalm

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Shogon

07-07-2019, 06:12 PM

Can't wait until we get an Asian Harriet Tubman, a Mexican Harry Potter and a white Bruce Lee

That'll never happen because none of this is ever REALLY coming from a place of "who cares about skin color" lmaoo... it's the exact opposite, these people tend to be raging racists... we dare not change the skin color of a prominent character who happens to be a minority.

But whitey? Eh... **** em! They've had a good run. Lmaoooooooo.

NumberSix

07-07-2019, 07:49 PM

That'll never happen because none of this is ever REALLY coming from a place of "who cares about skin color" lmaoo... it's the exact opposite, these people tend to be raging racists... we dare not change the skin color of a prominent character who happens to be a minority.

But whitey? Eh... **** em! They've had a good run. Lmaoooooooo.
Some characters, it doesn

SomeBlackDude

07-07-2019, 07:57 PM

Can't wait until we get an Asian Harriet Tubman, a Mexican Harry Potter and a white Bruce Lee

:biggums:

you do realize those are actual people from history and not made up, imaginary characters like the mermaid in question, yes?

Superman however has a specific look.

superman is an alien from the planet krypton. how did he end up looking like a caucasian man from kansas? whitewashing.

nigguh should look like et or the predator.

I also don’t think a black Batman would look right. Part of the iconic look of Batman is that contrast of the black bat mask and the cutout for the bottom half of his face. A dark skinned Batman just wouldn’t look the same.

batman is just a rich dude who's parents were shot and killed.

sounds similar to p. diddy's life story.

also...

https://i.postimg.cc/qRvyfBxT/batman-beyond.jpg

Cleverness

07-08-2019, 02:36 AM

It'll be weird to go to Disneyland with kids and explain to them how one Ariel is black w/ black hair another Ariel is white w/ red hair.

iamgine

07-08-2019, 03:14 AM

If fans are very disappointed with the change, they should just boycott this movie and let it die. After all, if they're still going to watch, who cares what they think.

raprap

07-08-2019, 03:36 AM

Don

Overdrive

07-08-2019, 06:47 AM

superman is an alien from the planet krypton. how did he end up looking like a caucasian man from kansas? whitewashing.

nigguh should look like et or the predator.

batman is just a rich dude who's parents were shot and killed.

sounds similar to p. diddy's life story.

also...

https://i.postimg.cc/qRvyfBxT/batman-beyond.jpg

How is it whitewashing? The guy, who invented him, did it that way.

That batman looks atrocious on so many levels.

Maybe Disney could release some new characters instead of rehashing old shit but with gay and black characters replacing white ones in everything..

This is what I don't get. Why don't use established black/female or whatever charactters or come up with some powerful minority characters. Why take established ones?

Do you know why? The outcry gives them months of free publicity. Everybody talks about a movie intented for little girls now.

ILLsmak

07-08-2019, 07:50 AM

"As an adult, I

Shogon

07-08-2019, 08:07 AM

[QUOTE=ILLsmak]"As an adult, I

Prometheus

07-08-2019, 10:37 AM

This entire topic and phenomenon :roll:

Black Ariel. lmao

Let's cast an Australian to play the next black panther

raprap

07-08-2019, 12:46 PM

[QUOTE=ILLsmak]"As an adult, I

Charlie Sheen

07-08-2019, 12:53 PM

People threw a fit about Miles Morales being Spiderman and Hawkeye being a woman. Both of those turned out to be great.

NumberSix

07-08-2019, 02:38 PM

People threw a fit about Miles Morales being Spiderman and Hawkeye being a woman. Both of those turned out to be great.
That’s dumb in my opinion. Miles Morales is Spider-Man in an alternate universe where Peter Parker isn’t alive anymore. They didn’t just make Peter Parker black or Latino out of the blue and they didn’t kill him off in the main Marvel universe. Having an alternate Spider-Man in an alternate universe is fine. It’s pretty cool actually.

Charlie Sheen

07-08-2019, 07:47 PM

[QUOTE=NumberSix]That

Cleverness

07-08-2019, 11:11 PM

[QUOTE=ILLsmak]"As an adult, I

MaxFly

07-09-2019, 11:22 AM

Make a movie with an iconic black character. Aladdin wasn't white. Jungle book wasn't white. You're telling me you can't come up w/ some fairy tale that has an authentic black star?

-Smak

We've had discussions on this very forum about this. First, many posters here don't really subscribe to the idea that there are social benefits in promoting and displaying diversity in any medium, so you'd generally see push back regarding the need to tell some of these stories in the first place. You likely won't see that same push back in this thread because it doesn't fit the agenda at play here, but there's a thread from last year that was pretty... illuminating... as to how some people approach diversity in general, and diversity in media specifically.

Second, when there is a lack of diversity throughout the hierarchies of corporations and movie studios, it's very hard to get projects made that feature diverse sets and representations of characters. Historically, there has been a dearth of minority animated characters, and so Disney has little to draw on for their live action projects. Moreover, when movies are made with minority characters, but by people who don't understand and can't write those characters, the movies tend to be pretty poor. For instance, Disney had it's first black princess in 2009, but the story was bad, the musical pieces forgettable and that princess spent a significant portion of the movie as an animal.

If a character's race has little bearing on their motivations, behavior, background, or the plot of their story, I don't think much of an issue should be made when racially diverse iterations of those characters are presented in media within reason. Halle Bailey as Ariel is a great casting, and the skin color of the character doesn't affect the story or the character much at all. We're not talking about Brave where the protagonist is Scottish or Frozen where she is Scandanavian. Ariel is a mermaid...

TheMan

07-09-2019, 11:44 AM

I think if they ever make a new Hulk movie, he should be blue. Why should he be green when we can remake him as a blue character so that we can appease those who like the color blue more so than green, as that viewer base that likes blue is obviously under represented since the original hulk wasn't the color of their choosing. :roll:

Sometimes you just have to point and laugh at the stupidity of it all.

Maybe we should get some pale white person with red hair who's of Irish decent play Jasmine if they ever made an Aladdin movie. Let's "mix it up" because that's the new cool thing to do apparently. :oldlol:
They did a live action remake of Aladdin with Will Smith as the genie, the actress playing Jasmin looked Arabic though. But I agree, stop changing the race/sex of the original character just to appease the SJWs...how cringe if the ever make a live action movie of Brave with the Scottish red headed girl now an African American :facepalm

Nanners

07-09-2019, 11:46 AM

I am still offended that DC decided to make all the heroes in their universe into complete and utter ******s

TheMan

07-09-2019, 12:04 PM

I am still offended that DC decided to make all the heroes in their universe into complete and utter ******s
Ah the nerd in all of us :lol ...you're a DC fan? My faves were the Uncanny X-Men growing up and although they made a couple of good X-Men movies, 20th Century Fox has tore a new a-hole into that franchise, the new X-Men movie sucked but at least Storm is still black :lol

Marvel now owns the rights to the X-Men, hopefully they'll do that franchise justice...

Nanners

07-09-2019, 12:15 PM

Ah the nerd in all of us :lol ...you're a DC fan? My faves were the Uncanny X-Men growing up and although they made a couple of good X-Men movies, 20th Century Fox has tore a new a-hole into that franchise, the new X-Men movie sucked but at least Storm is still black :lol

Marvel now owns the rights to the X-Men, hopefully they'll do that franchise justice...

LOL **** no im not a DC fan... they have fans?

Fox def made some shitty x-men movies, but their original X-men 1&2 (the Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen films) were pretty damn good, and Logan was one of the best comic book films ever made (imo).

MaxFly

07-09-2019, 12:23 PM

They did a live action remake of Aladdin with Will Smith as the genie, the actress looked playing Jasmin looked Arabic though. But I agree, stop changing the race/sex of the original character just to appease the SJWs...how cringe if the ever make a live action movie of Brave with the Scottish red headed girl now an African American :facepalm

Again, changes in race that materially affect the background, motivations, behavior or story of a character should be avoided. However, Ariel's depiction as white in the animated version has very little significance to the character or the story, nor did the race of the genie in Aladdin. In fact, on Broadway, the genie has often been played by a black actor.

Brave is set in medieval Scotland with Scottish characters in a medieval Scottish society. The Scottishness of the character is intrinsic to the protagonist, the legend, and to the story as a whole. The story and setting would need to be changed significantly in order to cast actors of a different race, and it is unlikely Disney would do that since Brave is a new story told with the intent of highlighting the characters' Scottish roots and Scottish legend in general.

Surely people are intelligent enough to pick up on the not-so-opaque nuance of when the race of a character in an entertainment medium is and is not important, right?

We've been depicting Jesus as white, blonde, blue eyed man for generations, across a number of mediums, in spite of the obvious inaccuracy. When past calls and attempts have been made to present him as a Middle-Eastern individual of a first century Jewish hue, we've also heard the same "social justice warrior!" complaints. It seems like "SJW!" is an easy complaint that people fall back to when there isn't logically, well developed reasoning behind the opposition. It reminds me of the backlash we saw when Rue was depicted as black in the Hunger Games movies and the outrage and "SJW!" claims that followed... only for the author of the series to come out and underscore that fact that she was written as black in the book, and that her description of Rue in the book should have made that clear. There's a lot of people crying wolf when you hear "SJW!!!!!"

tpols

07-09-2019, 12:24 PM

This is right out the Paul Mooney sketch :lol

TheMan

07-09-2019, 12:28 PM

LOL **** no im not a DC fan... they have fans?

Fox def made some shitty x-men movies, but their original X-men 1&2 (the Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen films) were pretty damn good, and Logan was one of the best comic book films ever made (imo).
I agree with your take on those first X-Men movies :rockon: It started going downhill when they went with young Professor X and Magneto, no fault of MacAvoy or Fassbender, good actors but had little to work with...tried to watch Logan with my kids but that movie is violent as hell:oldlol: Solid movie though.

Not a DC fan but I like Batman, especially the Burton and Nolan movies...funny how DC dominated in the 70s through the Nolan triology and Marvel couldn't even do a decent TV movie with their characters (not counting the X-Men nor Spiderman since Marvel weren't producing those movies) but now even their third tier characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy are blockbusters while DC fukks up their recent Batman movies :facepalm

ILLsmak

07-09-2019, 12:51 PM

This is my last post in this discussion, but the "they wrote a character of color and didn't know how to do it"/it was bad and failed vs if color has no bearing on anything then it's cool is the sort of contradiction ( and conundrum) that leads to this trash.

People aren't satisfied with color chars cuz they want cultural significance so they'd prefer to just swap out the color of a preexisting character and pretend color has no cultural significance. In my opinion everyone loses that way, but I guess it makes some people feel better.

It's a zero effort move tho. If they fail w a color char then they failed and it should be treated as a bad movie, because color means nothing, it should not lead to cultural outrage. They should then make better movies. This isn't diversity. It's almost like black face.

-Smak

Nanners

07-09-2019, 01:04 PM

I agree with your take on those first X-Men movies :rockon: It started going downhill when they went with young Professor X and Magneto, no fault of MacAvoy or Fassbender, good actors but had little to work with...tried to watch Logan with my kids but that movie is violent as hell:oldlol: Solid movie though.

No doubt MacAvoy and Fassbender are great actors, but those x-men reboot films were never able to recapture the magic of the originals imo.

And yeah Logan is most definitely not a film to be watched with kids, lol

Not a DC fan but I like Batman, especially the Burton and Nolan movies...funny how DC dominated in the 70s through the Nolan triology and Marvel couldn't even do a decent TV movie with their characters (not counting the X-Men nor Spiderman since Marvel weren't producing those movies) but now even their third tier characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy are blockbusters while DC fukks up their recent Batman movies :facepalm

While there are def some great DC films (especially the first two of Nolans Batmans)... I havent really enjoyed anything else DC ever. I love 80s-90s films overall, but unlike other films from this era the Burton Batmans do not hold up at all imo.

MaxFly

07-09-2019, 01:45 PM

People aren't satisfied with color chars cuz they want cultural significance so they'd prefer to just swap out the color of a preexisting character and pretend color has no cultural significance. In my opinion everyone loses that way, but I guess it makes some people feel better.

No, people simply want to see diverse representation in the characters they see on film, on tv and in books, and to get culturally significant and diverse stories if possible. Ariel's color has no significance to her story; it doen't affect who she is, it doesn't affect what she does, and it doesn't affect how others respond to her or treat her. Ariel's color isn't an intrinsic feature of her character. No one loses if Ariel is played by a light brown woman with red locks; the story doesn't suffer.

It's a zero effort move tho. If they fail w a color char then they failed and it should be treated as a bad movie, because color means nothing, it should not lead to cultural outrage. They should then make better movies. This isn't diversity. It's almost like black face.

The problem is that there is no backlog of animated movies with characters of color for Disney to draw on, so changing the representation of a character whose color doesn't matter for her story is a non-issue. And no, it's not almost like black face. I'm not sure what the logic is that would lead to that conclusion. The Ariel we see in the Disney movie isn't what she originally looked like in the book.

Do people not realize that the story in Disney's The Little Mermaid is drastically different from that of the Hans Christain Andersen book the character was derived from? Here's how the Hans Christian Andersen books ends...

However, the Little Mermaid cannot bring herself to kill the sleeping prince lying with his new bride, and she throws the knife and herself off the ship into the water just as dawn breaks. Her body dissolves into foam, but instead of ceasing to exist, she feels the warm sun and discovers that she has turned into a luminous and ethereal earthbound spirit, a daughter of the air. As the Little Mermaid ascends into the atmosphere, she is greeted by other daughters who tell her she has become like them because she strove with all her heart to obtain an immortal soul. Because of her selflessness, she is given the chance to earn her own soul by doing good deeds for mankind for 300 years, and will one day rise up into the Kingdom of God.

Lol, they changed the whole story, including what she looked like for the Disney version, but people are worried about her skin color.

NumberSix

07-09-2019, 04:42 PM

Poetry

07-09-2019, 04:55 PM

I'm not sure why people are complaining, this girl looks like a living, breathing Disney character.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DU6S5uwXcAItzd9.jpg

http://www.topstarnews.net/news/photo/201907/642618_341832_329.jpg

MaxFly

07-10-2019, 01:43 AM

I'm not sure why people are complaining, this girl looks like a living, breathing Disney character.

BossLogic uploaded a great mockup on Instagram.

https://i.ibb.co/PTyNSTP/Annotation-2019-07-10-013836.jpg

Cleverness

07-10-2019, 01:44 AM

We've had discussions on this very forum about this. First, many posters here don't really subscribe to the idea that there are social benefits in promoting and displaying diversity in any medium, so you'd generally see push back regarding the need to tell some of these stories in the first place.

If a character's race has little bearing on their motivations, behavior, background, or the plot of their story, I don't think much of an issue should be made when racially diverse iterations of those characters are presented in media within reason. Halle Bailey as Ariel is a great casting, and the skin color of the character doesn't affect the story or the character much at all. We're not talking about Brave where the protagonist is Scottish or Frozen where she is Scandanavian. Ariel is a mermaid...

-Which of the "many posters" on here pushed back against Moana?

-Making Ariel black is not a "display of diversity"

[QUOTE=NumberSix]The genie is blue. Any actor can play the genie provided that he

Hawker

07-10-2019, 01:50 AM

-Which of the "many posters" on here pushed back against Moana?

-Making Ariel black is not a "display of diversity"

This x1,000,000

He keeps trying to pretend like changing the iconic look of a character makes no difference, but of course it does. Disney has promoted Ariel as a character with a very distinct look since they created her 30 years ago.

Ariel is one of the biggest most recognizable cartoon characters of all-time. She's on full display at every Disney park in the world. Every little kid who goes to Disneyland can picture her in their mind, but I bet they'll be confused AF if/when they see a black Ariel w/ black hair at the park.

Like you said, they'd also be mad if suddenly she had green hair... or if she was bald to promote cancer awareness, or 500 lbs, or transgender, or Taiwanese with dreadlocks

The push back is against forced diversity narratives so yeah, nobody is going to care about Moana. Maxfly knows this though.

Atlanta is a completely organic black television show that pretty much anybody can watch. You can't substitue white people in there and get the same effect. It's a culture thing.

Denzel Washington made a great point about this - it's not about color it's about culture.

MaxFly

07-10-2019, 02:25 AM

[QUOTE=NumberSix]The genie is blue. Any actor can play the genie provided that he

MaxFly

07-10-2019, 02:29 AM

-Which of the "many posters" on here pushed back against Moana?

-Making Ariel black is not a "display of diversity"

I wasn't around here much when Moana was released, but from what I recall, there was a significant amount of ridicule for the Princess and the Frog and Disney's obvious attempts to add diversity to their lineup of Princesses.

This x1,000,000

He keeps trying to pretend like changing the iconic look of a character makes no difference, but of course it does. Disney has promoted Ariel as a character with a very distinct look since they created her 30 years ago.

Ariel is one of the biggest most recognizable cartoon characters of all-time. She's on full display at every Disney park in the world. Every little kid who goes to Disneyland can picture her in their mind, but I bet they'll be confused AF if/when they see a black Ariel w/ black hair at the park.

Like you said, they'd also be mad if suddenly she had green hair... or if she was bald to promote cancer awareness, or 500 lbs, or transgender, or Taiwanese with dreadlocks.

Disney didn't create Ariel. As I mentioned before, the character and story comes from a Hans Christian Andersen book from the 1830s and an animated version of that book was made in 1975. Disney updated the story and character for their movie in 1989... including her appearance.

I don't think children will be confused. They didn't seem particularly confused by Will Smith as the genie in Aladdin. Reviewers were pretty sour, but people who went to see it, including children, loved it. I think children are a little smarter than you give them credit for.

But let's be real... anyone whose complaint is, "But kids will be confused!" is being disingenuous. Lol, that's not their real concern.

MaxFly

07-10-2019, 02:51 AM

The push back is against forced diversity narratives so yeah, nobody is going to care about Moana. Maxfly knows this though.

Atlanta is a completely organic black television show that pretty much anybody can watch. You can't substitue white people in there and get the same effect. It's a culture thing.

Denzel Washington made a great point about this - it's not about color it's about culture.

This is the original The Princess and the Frog book.

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1211105099l/1322737.jpg

This is Disney's The Princess and the Frog...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/c/c8/Princess_and_frog.jpg

Lol, have people forgotten the outrage?

iamgine

07-10-2019, 03:00 AM

Again, changes in race that materially affect the background, motivations, behavior or story of a character should be avoided. However, Ariel's depiction as white in the animated version has very little significance to the character or the story, nor did the race of the genie in Aladdin. In fact, on Broadway, the genie has often been played by a black actor.
Race is not the issue. Not getting someone who resembles Ariel in the popular cartoon is the huge disappointment to many people. And it's easily understandable. If they change Sebastian from a talking crab to a...talking fish, people would just be as disappointed.

NumberSix

07-10-2019, 03:19 AM

The genie spends a significant amount of time in human form since he serves as an "adviser" to Aladdin when others are around in both the animated and live action versions of the movie. He was the same color as Aladdin in the animated version of the movie, but was black in the live action version, and has been played by black actors on Broadway. You could have easily looked this up before you responded.

Originally, she had blonde hair in the book, and in the 1975 movie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGu7dMzm6I).

Disney changed the story significantly from the book and the original incarnation of the characters. She also dies in the original book and movie. It seems that their should be no issue if they make updates to the characters that don't change their story, motivations, behaviors or backstory significantly. For Ariel specifically, her skin color has next to nothing to do with the story other than visual nostalgia for some viewers. However, The Little Mermaid is a children's tale from 1989. There are not a lot of children in 2019 clamoring for an identical live action remake of the 1989 animated film. It's people in their 30s, 40s, and somehow 50s who are complaining that their childhoods are now ruined. Similar complaints were made about the live action version of Aladdin.

This is not difficult to understand. Live action versions of animated movies have and will continue to take liberties with the characters that are displayed and stories that are being retold. Plot points will be updated and expanded and character depictions will be updated within reason. Disney has stated time and again that their goal is not to make frame by frame live action replicas of the original animated movies, but to create new incarnations for modern movie goers within the framework of those animated movies and characters.
I

NumberSix

07-10-2019, 04:06 AM

Race is not the issue. Not getting someone who resembles Ariel in the popular cartoon is the huge disappointment to many people. And it's easily understandable. If they change Sebastian from a talking crab to a...talking fish, people would just be as disappointed.
This. If they made a live action version of Fat Albert starring Ryan Reynolds as Fat Albert, I cant imagine that people would pretend to not understand why it’s a problem that Ryan Reynolds in no way resembles the cartoon character.

Some characters have a “look” and some don’t. It’s not exactly quantifiable. It’s like a Coca-Cola can vs a plain soda can. Some things are recognizable, identifiable brands. Some things are not.

When you have something like Coca-Cola or the McDonald’s logo, you don’t f*ck with it. You don’t put Superman in a green suit. You don’t make Mickey Mouse grey instead of black. You don’t randomly make Daffy Duck white and Donald Duck black.

Now, if they remade Back To The Future, if they made Marty McFly asian, black or whatever it wouldn’t really matter. If Marty McFly was a black guy with a red vest, I don’t think it makes a difference. Marty McFly isn’t really a “mascot” of the series the way someone like a Freddy Kruger is. Freddy Kruger has a super specific look. Marty is just, a guy.

If they rebooted 24, the new Jack Bauer doesn’t specifically have to be a blond haired white guy. But if they made a live action Archie, he really does have to be a white guy with red hair. Peter Pan however doesn’t need to have brown hair like the cartoon. He probably doesn’t even have to be white.

Like I said, it’s not really quantifiable. It’s more of a “know it when you see it” situation of when a character has a specific look that needs to be maintained.

Hawker

07-10-2019, 05:32 AM

This is the original The Princess and the Frog book.

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1211105099l/1322737.jpg

This is Disney's The Princess and the Frog...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/c/c8/Princess_and_frog.jpg

Lol, have people forgotten the outrage?

Not outraged about it - it clearly doesn't fit though. And there was no original iconic movie like the little mermaid.

Isn't Hans Christian Andersen danish?

rufuspaul

07-10-2019, 10:13 AM

Mermaids are white. This is a scientific fact.

Poetry

07-10-2019, 10:40 AM

Ariel is one of the biggest most recognizable cartoon characters of all-time. She's on full display at every Disney park in the world. Every little kid who goes to Disneyland can picture her in their mind, but I bet they'll be confused AF if/when they see a black Ariel w/ black hair at the park

Aquaman has been around much longer than Disney's Ariel and audiences didn't seem to mind the updated look at all.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiaUqFiU0AA9RNV.jpg

iamgine

07-10-2019, 01:27 PM

Aquaman has been around much longer than Disney's Ariel and audiences didn't seem to mind the updated look at all.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiaUqFiU0AA9RNV.jpg
Being around longer doesn't mean anything. He's just not someone many people cares about or like.

If anything, more audience prefer the new Aquaman. He looks like Poseidon, which is fitting.

Cleverness

07-10-2019, 11:35 PM

Let me be clear: this whole changing skin color of Ariel isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. They'll add some new twists and graphics to an already classic, iconic masterpiece and the movie will probably be great.

That being said...

Mulan and Coco (Disney Pixar) are great examples of how to promote and display diversity of culture.

Moana came out recently and it's a perfect example of how to promote and display diversity of culture.

Those three movies showcase Disney's imagination and storytelling abilities, with promotion and diversity of culture as a successful secondary endpoint.

Changing the iconic Ariel's skin color is not a good example of how to promote diversity of culture. It comes off as forced, lazy, and unimaginative - almost Hollywood elitist-y.

Disney didn't create Ariel. As I mentioned before, the character and story comes from a Hans Christian Andersen book from the 1830s and an animated version of that book was made in 1975. Disney updated the story and character for their movie in 1989... including her appearance.

Nobody knows or cares about the 1800s or 1975 version. It is of zero cultural and iconic significance. The 1989 version is the one that hundreds of millions of people know and care about. The Ariel in that movie is the one Disney fans/customers hold close to their heart.

When parents take their children to Disney parks, stores, events, etc., there is a special bond that is shared. For a parent, it's a magical experience to share a piece of your childhood with your son/daughter. With the 1989 version of Ariel drastically changed, they will feel like they're watching a entirely different character. Disney may do a great job with the 'new Ariel', but the old Ariel will be gone to them. Disney is not bringing the iconic Ariel to a live-action format; they are creating a new Ariel. This is why people in their late 20s, 30s, and 40s are disappointed.

I don't think children will be confused. They didn't seem particularly confused by Will Smith as the genie in Aladdin. Reviewers were pretty sour, but people who went to see it, including children, loved it. I think children are a little smarter than you give them credit for.

But let's be real... anyone whose complaint is, "But kids will be confused!" is being disingenuous. Lol, that's not their real concern.

A big group of my coworkers (about 4-5 families) took their children to a Little Mermaid event earlier this year. Children ages were about 6 to 11 years old, mostly girls.

The children said, "mommy, that's not Ariel." The woman who was dressed as Ariel was pushing 200 lbs. They know.

When I say they'll be confused, that's what I mean. They'll ask WTH happened to the (iconic) Ariel they watched together at home. Children don't have much of a filter. "Why did Ariel's skin color change from white to black?" will be asked -- and apparently more than you think.

Cleverness

07-10-2019, 11:43 PM

Aquaman has been around much longer than Disney's Ariel and audiences didn't seem to mind the updated look at all.

That's because nobody ever gave a **** about Aquaman. He was never an iconic piece of mainstream culture. Millions of people did not watch Aquaman growing up and years later with their children.

Aquaman has always been thought of as a joke, a punchline. He's basically on the same tier as Jar Jar Binks.

NumberSix

07-11-2019, 01:55 AM

That's because nobody ever gave a **** about Aquaman. He was never an iconic piece of mainstream culture. Millions of people did not watch Aquaman growing up and years later with their children.

Aquaman has always been thought of as a joke, a punchline. He's basically on the same tier as Jar Jar Binks.
Sea-man.

Hawker

07-11-2019, 02:13 AM

Poetry

07-11-2019, 06:36 AM

I've never heard of aquaman the movie or the princess and the frog before reading this thread.

Tells you that they're insignificant.

I wouldn't call it insignificant.

"The film grossed over $1.1 billion worldwide, becoming the highest-grossing DCEU film as well as the highest-grossing film based on a DC Comics character, surpassing The Dark Knight Rises; it was also the fifth highest-grossing film of 2018 and 20th highest of all-time."

BurningHammer

07-11-2019, 12:46 PM

Must be a mermaid from the Caribbean. :ohwell:

Kiddlovesnets

07-11-2019, 04:42 PM

Political Correctness at its full effect, Disney is definitely not immune to this, and its exactly why we elected Trump to president trying to fight against the liberals and this nonsense.
:oldlol:

Smoke117

07-11-2019, 04:44 PM

Aquaman has been around much longer than Disney's Ariel and audiences didn't seem to mind the updated look at all.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiaUqFiU0AA9RNV.jpg

lol Aquaman's look has always been made fun of so them actually changing it up was a good thing.

egokiller

07-12-2019, 12:03 AM

For the remake of Splash which first came out in 1984, we certainly can

NumberSix

07-12-2019, 01:37 AM

[QUOTE=egokiller]For the remake of Splash which first came out in 1984, we certainly can

MaxFly

07-13-2019, 12:41 AM

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I

MaxFly

07-13-2019, 12:51 AM

MaxFly

07-13-2019, 12:59 AM

Not outraged about it - it clearly doesn't fit though. And there was no original iconic movie like the little mermaid.

Didn't ask if you are outraged. I asked if people don't remember the outrage at the time. Apparently you don't. :confusedshrug:

Isn't Hans Christian Andersen danish?

Which is the hilarious thing about all this. Disney made significant changes to the Hans Christian Andersen story... removing characters, adding characters, changing what Ariel looked like, changing the story in general, removing the religious theme behind the story... after there had already been a The Little Mermaid movie based on the book. Skin color is what gets people... similar to how it triggered people in regards to Rue from The Hunger Games.

MaxFly

07-13-2019, 01:13 AM

Nobody knows or cares about the 1800s or 1975 version. It is of zero cultural and iconic significance. The 1989 version is the one that hundreds of millions of people know and care about. The Ariel in that movie is the one Disney fans/customers hold close to their heart.[QUOTE]

"Hundreds of millions of people" do not particularly care about The Little Mermaid, and kids today, on average, know very little about the Little Mermaid.

When parents take their children to Disney parks, stores, events, etc., there is a special bond that is shared. For a parent, it's a magical experience to share a piece of your childhood with your son/daughter. With the 1989 version of Ariel drastically changed, they will feel like they're watching a entirely different character. Disney may do a great job with the 'new Ariel', but the old Ariel will be gone to them. Disney is not bringing the iconic Ariel to a live-action format; they are creating a new Ariel. This is why people in their late 20s, 30s, and 40s are disappointed.

That's fine. Their kids will meet a new Ariel, and if Disney does a good job, will come to love the new Ariel... aided by the fact that they knew little about the movie from 30 years ago. But the outrage is amusing given how much Disney had changed the story of The Little Mermaid from previous versions.

A big group of my coworkers (about 4-5 families) took their children to a Little Mermaid event earlier this year. Children ages were about 6 to 11 years old, mostly girls.

The children said, "mommy, that's not Ariel." The woman who was dressed as Ariel was pushing 200 lbs. They know.

When I say they'll be confused, that's what I mean. They'll ask WTH happened to the (iconic) Ariel they watched together at home. Children don't have much of a filter. "Why did Ariel's skin color change from white to black?" will be asked -- and apparently more than you think.

Interesting... I didn't hear a lot of that from kids who went to see Aladdin given that the genie was significantly changed in appearance, voice and behavior. I suspect it will be the same for Ariel.

Smoke117

07-13-2019, 01:17 AM

Gingers matter! On that note, I find redheads sexy as fukk. I've even thought about movie to Ireland...holy shit, you seen how many fine piece of redhead ass is there? God damn! I want to degrade their pink holes so filthily they'd never be able to look their parents in the face again...Yum.

Hawker

07-13-2019, 02:39 AM

Didn't ask if you are outraged. I asked if people don't remember the outrage at the time. Apparently you don't. :confusedshrug:

Which is the hilarious thing about all this. Disney made significant changes to the Hans Christian Andersen story... removing characters, adding characters, changing what Ariel looked like, changing the story in general, removing the religious theme behind the story... after there had already been a The Little Mermaid movie based on the book. Skin color is what gets people... similar to how it triggered people in regards to Rue from The Hunger Games.

I don't think people were outraged about that or about the hunger games. If they were, it was a much smaller slice of the population. The little mermaid has levels of cultural value above both those movies. Neither of those movies are as popular as the little mermaid and they aren't apples to apples comparisons since they were both books adapted to a movie.

The story itself isn't as iconic as the movie so I don't get the argument you're trying to make here.

I presume the character is white in the book as well?

Hawker

07-13-2019, 02:40 AM

I wouldn't call it insignificant.

"The film grossed over $1.1 billion worldwide, becoming the highest-grossing DCEU film as well as the highest-grossing film based on a DC Comics character, surpassing The Dark Knight Rises; it was also the fifth highest-grossing film of 2018 and 20th highest of all-time."

I was talking about the original aquaman - if there ever was one.

NumberSix

07-13-2019, 06:59 AM

People are apparently outraged and view it as a racial issue.
No they aren

MaxFly

07-15-2019, 06:37 AM

I don't think people were outraged about that or about the hunger games.

I mean (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-hunger-games-were-you-upset-rue-was-black-because-a-lot-of-other-people-are-2012-3), just a few of the milder ones...

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f71d2bbeab8ea2a3c00001b-320-240.jpg

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f71d2ddecad044626000038-320-240.jpg

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f71d30469bedd6f3e00002c-320-240.jpg

The little mermaid has levels of cultural value above both those movies. Neither of those movies are as popular as the little mermaid and they aren't apples to apples comparisons since they were both books adapted to a movie.

I don't think her skin color is going to matter much for a new generation of movie watchers. Again, we're dealing purely with nostalgia, not with anything that particularly affects the character's motivations, background, behavior or story. As I mentioned before, it's akin to people who get up in arms and cry "SJW!!!!" when others attempt to depict Jesus with darker skin than the blond, blued version that we've grown accustomed to. People like what they are used to and comfortable with, irrespective of the true significance or relevance of their preference... even in cases when it's blatantly wrong.

The story itself isn't as iconic as the movie so I don't get the argument you're trying to make here.

I presume the character is white in the book as well?

That's sort of the point. It sounds like the argument people are making is that though Disney made significant changes to the The Little Mermaid book for their movie and popularized the character for kids 30 years ago, they should now be firmly and immutably wedded to the specific depiction and story that they told back then forevermore. It's one thing to be disappointed that the character will look a little different than what you grew up with 30 years ago, but we're dealing with more than "disappointment" based on how some are reacting.