This is how pathetic the Heat collusion was...

[stalkerforlife]

Wade was 3rd and 5th in MVP voting the prior two seasons.

Bosh was 12th in MVP voting and top 5 in PER the previous season.

The 2009-10 records for the Cavaliers, Heat, and Raptors...

Heat 47-35
Raptors 40-42
Cavaliers 61-21

2010-11 records for those same three teams...

Heat 58-24
Raptors 22-60
Cavaliers 19-63

Lebron effectively took out two of his contenders and stacked his team with two of the top five best players in the East alongside himself.

With an aging Celtics team and Derrick Rose not ready for the next level, the path was cleared for dominance...and Lebron's teams did with eight straight finals appearances. It says something when the Warriors are supposedly the most talented team ever and they only have five straight appearances...in a stronger conference.

Now it would have been different if Lebron won more than half of his appearances, you can overlook the dominance of the East and say that you can only play who is in front of you. But Lebron was losing in the finals...quite a bit. Not just losing but getting smoked.

Twice Lebron has been swept in the finals, and twice losing in five games.

So it was not just losing in the finals. We can all excuse a valiant performance, but several times Lebron's teams did not look like the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. They look like they were the JV team in the finals. You don't get credit in the finals for just showing up and getting beat down.

[ArbitraryWater]

Contenders?

LeBron didn't take out any contenders. Neither the Raptors or Heat were.


That's what Kawhi did. Asking around KD and PG to team up.

LeBron joined a 47 win team + Bosh
Leonard joined a 51 win team + PG


+2 contenders gutted (OKC, GSW)

[SpaceJam]

Kawhi just colluded with a dude who finished 3rd in MVP and DPoY voting to join a 48 win team :roll:

I'm loving this, after the finals Kawhi was the 'anti-Bron' he would never do any of this recruiting or colluding to dishonor the game. But he's been trying to get a top 10 player the join up with this whole time...so now you Bron haters gotta back track :roll:

[The Iron Fist]

Kawhi just colluded with a dude who finished 3rd in MVP and DPoY voting to join a 48 win team :roll:

I'm loving this, after the finals Kawhi was the 'anti-Bron' he would never do any of this recruiting or colluding to dishonor the game. But he's been trying to get a top 10 player the join up with this whole time...so now you Bron haters gotta back track :roll:

Contenders?

LeBron didn't take out any contenders. Neither the Raptors or Heat were.


That's what Kawhi did. Asking around KD and PG to team up.

LeBron joined a 47 win team + Bosh
Leonard joined a 51 win team + PG


+2 contenders gutted (OKC, GSW)
You guys wanted Kawhi though. You even thought you had him. Now you hate him?

Why?:cheers:

[SpaceJammeR]

kawhi tried recruiting durant too. but failed. so went for pg instead. pathetic.

[stalkerforlife]

Kawhi just colluded with a dude who finished 3rd in MVP and DPoY voting to join a 48 win team :roll:

I'm loving this, after the finals Kawhi was the 'anti-Bron' he would never do any of this recruiting or colluding to dishonor the game. But he's been trying to get a top 10 player the join up with this whole time...so now you Bron haters gotta back track :roll:

You're forgetting Bran.

3 of the top 10 players in the same conference.

Absolutely destroyed any possibility of competition.

Kawhi has just one other top ten player in his conference.

And Kawhi won without a super team already.

[stalkerforlife]

Contenders?

LeBron didn't take out any contenders. Neither the Raptors or Heat were.


That's what Kawhi did. Asking around KD and PG to team up.

LeBron joined a 47 win team + Bosh
Leonard joined a 51 win team + PG


+2 contenders gutted (OKC, GSW)

The Heat with a prime Wade would've contended, regardless.

They added Bosh.

THEN Bran wanted in because he feared Wade with help

Prime Wade > PG and Westbrick.

[SpaceJam]

You're forgetting Bran.

3 of the top 10 players in the same conference.

Absolutely destroyed any possibility of competition.

Kawhi has just one other top ten player in his conference.

And Kawhi won without a super team already.

I see your points, glad we can agree Bron didn't collude in 2014 when he came back to the Cavs :cheers:

[Overdrive]

Contenders?

LeBron didn't take out any contenders. Neither the Raptors or Heat were.


That's what Kawhi did. Asking around KD and PG to team up.

LeBron joined a 47 win team + Bosh
Leonard joined a 51 win team + PG


+2 contenders gutted (OKC, GSW)

Heat weren't contenders, but OKC were?

[Spurs m8]

Hahaha kawhi got these bron stans on a fvcking leash....

These tears are going to last a while...these are the same losers still crying about kyrie hahahha

[nayte]

Kawhi just colluded with a dude who finished 3rd in MVP and DPoY voting to join a 48 win team :roll:

I'm loving this, after the finals Kawhi was the 'anti-Bron' he would never do any of this recruiting or colluding to dishonor the game. But he's been trying to get a top 10 player the join up with this whole time...so now you Bron haters gotta back track :roll:

I admit I don't care cause **** LeBron. Lol. It is hypocritical but oh well thats sports

[DMAVS41]

What Lebron did going to Miami was much worse than what Leonard just did. Sorry if you clowns don't like it, but it's true...

Leonard wanted to go home and compete for titles. He's going to a Western conference in which elite teams are the norm. In the East back in 2011...there was not the same level of competition. Bulls/Celtics were pretty good, but everyone knew the Heat would have to choke not to make the finals.

The Clippers with PG/Leonard? Yea, they are elite...but so is the competition. Rockets/Jazz/Lakers/Nuggets/Warriors are all teams as presently constituted that could beat them in a series and nobody would be shocked...

Hopefully the Rockets add a little something to keep pace...and I bet the Blazers make a move or two as well.

Yes, Clippers should be favorites right now, but there are a whole host of teams that could beat them in a playoff series and it wouldn't be shocking at all.

[Hey Yo]

What Lebron did going to Miami was much worse than what Leonard just did. Sorry if you clowns don't like it, but it's true...

Leonard wanted to go home and compete for titles. He's going to a Western conference in which elite teams are the norm.
So why in order for him to come back home, was based on the Clipps finding a away to sign KD? That fell through and then said "get Paul George or I'm not signing." Why so demanding if all he wanted to do was go back home?


In the East back in 2011...there was not the same level of competition. Bulls/Celtics were pretty good, but everyone knew the Heat would have to choke not to make the finals.
What was the level of competition for Boston from 2008-2010 after Garnett finally agreed to be traded to Boston? Cleveland, Orlando????


The Clippers with PG/Leonard? Yea, they are elite...but so is the competition. Rockets/Jazz/Lakers/Nuggets/Warriors are all teams as presently constituted that could beat them in a series and nobody would be shocked...

Hopefully the Rockets add a little something to keep pace...and I bet the Blazers make a move or two as well.

Yes, Clippers should be favorites right now, but there are a whole host of teams that could beat them in a playoff series and it wouldn't be shocking at all.
LOL @ excusing the blatant collusion because "another team could beat them in a series."

[FKAri]

What Lebron did going to Miami was much worse than what Leonard just did. Sorry if you clowns don't like it, but it's true...

Leonard wanted to go home and compete for titles. He's going to a Western conference in which elite teams are the norm. In the East back in 2011...there was not the same level of competition. Bulls/Celtics were pretty good, but everyone knew the Heat would have to choke not to make the finals.

The Clippers with PG/Leonard? Yea, they are elite...but so is the competition. Rockets/Jazz/Lakers/Nuggets/Warriors are all teams as presently constituted that could beat them in a series and nobody would be shocked...

Hopefully the Rockets add a little something to keep pace...and I bet the Blazers make a move or two as well.

Yes, Clippers should be favorites right now, but there are a whole host of teams that could beat them in a playoff series and it wouldn't be shocking at all.
Hell naw. Kawhi abandoned a team that did everything for him and they even won a ring together. That's pathetic and low. LeGod should've left Cleveland the summer that they signed Mo Williams.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not "excusing" anything...

I personally dislike players leaving franchises as quickly as they do now, but I understand it some cases.

I'm just telling you the facts.

When Lebron/Wade/Bosh teamed up...they would have had to choke not to make the finals.

With the Clippers currently...if you want to compete in the West...you need a loaded squad because even with a loaded squad...you have like 5 other teams that can beat you in a series and nobody would be all that surprised.

[DMAVS41]

Hell naw. Kawhi abandoned a team that did everything for him and they even won a ring together. That's pathetic and low. LeGod should've left Cleveland the summer that they signed Mo Williams.

Yes, I completely agree that Lebron needed to leave the Cavs as I have been saying for a decade now.

However, stacking the deck in an already weak conference was a bitch move whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

[FKAri]

Yes, I completely agree that Lebron needed to leave the Cavs as I have been saying for a decade now.

However, stacking the deck in an already weak conference was a bitch move whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
You stack the deck if you can do it. Microsoft didn't stop themselves from setting up a monopoly. It's up to external sources to prevent you from doing that. Might as well say players who don't put their hand up after a foul are dishonorable bitches too.

[DMAVS41]

You stack the deck if you can do it. It's up to external sources to prevent you from doing that. Might as well say players who don't put their hand up after a foul are dishonorable bitches too.

I disagree completely from a player standpoint.

From a franchise standpoint? Absolutely.

And we are already seeing players realize this. Leonard didn't go to the Lakers...and KD didn't join Leonard.

Why?

Because they wanted to take on more of a challenge and want more credit if they do win.

KD joining the Warriors and rightly the narrative around that I think has gone a long way to ending the "superteam" era.

[FKAri]

I disagree completely from a player standpoint.

From a franchise standpoint? Absolutely.

And we are already seeing players realize this. Leonard didn't go to the Lakers...and KD didn't join Leonard.

Why?

Because they wanted to take on more of a challenge and want more credit if they do win.

KD joining the Warriors and rightly the narrative around that I think has gone a long way to ending the "superteam" era.
Then you're a glory hunter not really someone trying to win. You just want attention. I may be playing devil's advocate a bit but I really don't find one path more respectable than the other.

[DMAVS41]

Then you're a glory hunter not really someone trying to win.

To argue that Leonard going to the Clippers instead of the Lakers is "not really someone trying to win"...is a statement I could not disagree more with.

Not taking the easiest path to a ring does not mean a player is a glory hunter and isn't trying to win.

Some people, most even, want some semblance of balance and fairness in competition...it is what makes competing so fun.

Winning, when you just have to show up and not be terrible, just isn't the same.

These aren't new concepts and you are seeing it play out in front of you.

[Wally450]

Kawhi shamelessly recruited an MVP candidate to LA with him. :facepalm

[superduper]

Then you're a glory hunter not really someone trying to win. You just want attention. I may be playing devil's advocate a bit but I really don't find one path more respectable than the other.

So you're saying KDs rings are as valuable as say Hakeems? To you the path doesn't matter, just the result of the stacked deck. Or that's what it seems like.

[bigkingsfan]

So you're saying KDs rings are as valuable as say Hakeems? To you the path doesn't matter, just the result of the stacked deck. Or that's what it seems like.
https://i.ibb.co/ryRxJHY/U8Ml3Ib.jpg

[And1AllDay]

Kawhi just colluded with a dude who finished 3rd in MVP and DPoY voting to join a 48 win team :roll:

I'm loving this, after the finals Kawhi was the 'anti-Bron' he would never do any of this recruiting or colluding to dishonor the game. But he's been trying to get a top 10 player the join up with this whole time...so now you Bron haters gotta back track :roll:

:oldlol:


issa wrap

[And1AllDay]

Kawhi shamelessly recruited an MVP candidate to LA with him. :facepalm

and left his team directly after wining fmvp

1st time in nba history :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Wade was 3rd and 5th in MVP voting the prior two seasons.

Bosh was 12th in MVP voting and top 5 in PER the previous season.

The 2009-10 records for the Cavaliers, Heat, and Raptors...

Heat 47-35
Raptors 40-42
Cavaliers 61-21

2010-11 records for those same three teams...

Heat 58-24
Raptors 22-60
Cavaliers 19-63

Lebron effectively took out two of his contenders and stacked his team with two of the top five best players in the East alongside himself.

With an aging Celtics team and Derrick Rose not ready for the next level, the path was cleared for dominance...and Lebron's teams did with eight straight finals appearances. It says something when the Warriors are supposedly the most talented team ever and they only have five straight appearances...in a stronger conference.

Now it would have been different if Lebron won more than half of his appearances, you can overlook the dominance of the East and say that you can only play who is in front of you. But Lebron was losing in the finals...quite a bit. Not just losing but getting smoked.

Twice Lebron has been swept in the finals, and twice losing in five games.

So it was not just losing in the finals. We can all excuse a valiant performance, but several times Lebron's teams did not look like the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. They look like they were the JV team in the finals. You don't get credit in the finals for just showing up and getting beat down.

High iq

You pointed out something that gets missed about the collusion. He joined the two best players from his own conference! So he not only stacked the deck, he sucked the remaining air out of an already historically weak conference. It guaranteed him a free trip to the Finals every year.

[SouBeachTalents]

High iq

You pointed out something that gets missed about the collusion. He joined the two best players from his own conference! So he not only stacked the deck, he sucked the remaining air out of an already historically weak conference. It guaranteed him a free trip to the Finals every year.
Dwight > Bosh

[tpols]

Dwight > Bosh


For LeBron?

Hell no. That fit would be a disaster.

[SouBeachTalents]

For LeBron?

Hell no. That fit would be a disaster.
Dude said Wade & Bosh were the next 2 best players in the conference. That was incorrect considering Dwight was clearly the better player at the time. I never even alluded to fit :lol