Conley is overrated

[Vino24]

He had prime Gasol, Randolph, whiteside, Prince, Courtney Lee, Tony Allen, Mike Miller, James Johnson, Vince Carter :biggums: he had STACKED teams and failed miserably

[Xiao Yao You]

prime Whiteside, Prince and Carter? :roll:

[Vino24]

prime Whiteside, Prince and Carter? :roll:
I meant just Gasol was absolute prime. The rest were very good or still near prime

[PP34Deuce]

How is Conley overrated? He's rarely talked about as an elite PG.

He's in the hall of very good PG's. Everything you want in your PG he gives you.

Great A/T ratio
Smart
two way player
hits the 3
coachable

Overpaid but if you have a team of scorers, he's the perfect PG to put in.

[Vino24]

How is Conley overrated? He's rarely talked about as an elite PG.

He's in the hall of very good PG's. Everything you want in your PG he gives you.

Great A/T ratio
Smart
two way player
hits the 3
coachable

Overpaid but if you have a team of scorers, he's the perfect PG to put in.
He

[Xiao Yao You]

How is Conley overrated? He's rarely talked about as an elite PG.

He's in the hall of very good PG's. Everything you want in your PG he gives you.

Great A/T ratio
Smart
two way player
hits the 3
coachable

Overpaid but if you have a team of scorers, he's the perfect PG to put in.

Can play with or without the ball which is ideally how they want to play 1-4 and why Rubio and Exum have never made any sense. The style of play in Memphis makes him the perfect fit in Utah.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=Vino24]He

[Manny98]

If anything he's underrated.

he's never even made a all star team despite being on the same level as guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba, John Wall ect.

[Uncle Drew]

Mike Conley became so underrated, that he is now overrated. Only correct answer.

[k0kakw0rld]

He had prime Gasol, Randolph, whiteside, Prince, Courtney Lee, Tony Allen, Mike Miller, James Johnson, Vince Carter :biggums: he had STACKED teams and failed miserably
Who the f*ck are they supposed to be? Hall of famers or something? :confusedshrug:

You are an idiot.

[Xiao Yao You]

Who the f*ck are they supposed to be? Hall of famers or something? :confusedshrug:

You are an idiot.

On ISH role players can be considered HOFers

[ArbitraryWater]

underrated

[Xiao Yao You]

Bojan apparently is too and Rubio obviously overrated

[LoneyROY7]

Conley is solid, but his trade is making the Jazz overrated...people talking about top 2-3 seed now.

[Xiao Yao You]

Conley is solid, but his trade is making the Jazz overrated...people talking about top 2-3 seed now.

they've been the 5th seed the past two years with Rubio and Favors starting and not fitting. How did they not take the team to another level with guys that actually fit around Gobert for the first time ever besides the brief Joe Johnson on his last legs/corpse of Diaw/hurt George Hill era?

[90sgoat]

That Memphis team was all Marc Gasol, that much has to be obvious to anyone watching his play on Raptors.

Gasol and Randolph.

What has Conley done exactly? Sure he has games where he hits his shots.. as does any other guard.

[Xiao Yao You]

That Memphis team was all Marc Gasol, that much has to be obvious to anyone watching his play on Raptors.

Gasol and Randolph.

What has Conley done exactly? Sure he has games where he hits his shots.. as does any other guard.

Every guard is scoring 21 pts 6 ass/2 to and playing both ends of the floor.

[highwhey]

Conley is solid, but his trade is making the Jazz overrated...people talking about top 2-3 seed now.
exactly. nobody on that team is a killer.

big fan of Conely and don't think he's overrated, he's just had bad luck with injuries to himself and teammates.

Still, no one on the Jazz is a killer type. they have no chance at making it to the finals. who's going to take over late in 4th or when the offense goes stale? mitchell with his 53% TS? :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

exactly. nobody on that team is a killer.

big fan of Conely and don't think he's overrated, he's just had bad luck with injuries to himself and teammates.

Still, no one on the Jazz is a killer type. they have no chance at making it to the finals. who's going to take over late in 4th or when the offense goes stale? mitchell with his 53% TS? :roll:

The opposition won't be able to key in on Mitchell now. He and Gobert become much better players with Conley and Bojan replacing Rubio/Favors in the line-up

[highwhey]

The opposition won't be able to key in on Mitchell now. He and Gobert become much better players with Conley and Bojan replacing Rubio/Favors in the line-up
okay and? he's not a take over guy.

you know...like a Kawhi...LeBron...heck, I'd trust AD to take over a game over Mitchell or Gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

okay and? he's not a take over guy.

you know...like a Kawhi...LeBron...heck, I'd trust AD to take over a game over Mitchell or Gobert.

We'll actually see what kind of a guy he is now that Rubio's guy isn't double teaming him. He'll be all of 23 and will have the spacing to do whatever he wants for the first time.

[highwhey]

We'll actually see what kind of a guy he is now that Rubio's guy isn't double teaming him. He'll be all of 23 and will have the spacing to do whatever he wants for the first time.
let me just break it to you, he ain't no killuh. at least he had the fortune of having Joe Ingles next to him and a good passer in Rubio.

Booker ain't have an elite shooter next to him last season or competent passer and still showed how much of a killer he is, double teammed and all.

[Xiao Yao You]

let me just break it to you, he ain't no killuh. at least he had the fortune of having Joe Ingles next to him and a good passer in Rubio.

Booker ain't have an elite shooter next to him last season or competent passer and still showed how much of a killer he is, double teammed and all.

He has shown a killer instinct already. He didn't need a good passer he needed shooters to open up the floor for him and to hit open shots when the double team comes. He has that now. They have 3 scorers. Countless shooters. Great defense. Bring it on!

[highwhey]

He has shown a killer instinct already. He didn't need a good passer he needed shooters to open up the floor for him and to hit open shots when the double team comes. He has that now. They have 3 scorers. Countless shooters. Great defense. Bring it on!
they'll match up well with a depleted Lakers, but my money would be on Bron taking over in a playoffs series.

[Xiao Yao You]

they'll match up well with a depleted Lakers, but my money would be on Bron taking over in a playoffs series.

Jazz are the last team Lebron wants to play in the playoffs. He hasn't won here in like a decade or something :lol

[highwhey]

Jazz are the last team Lebron wants to play in the playoffs. He hasn't won here in like a decade or something :lol
ad will cook gobert.

i think your demise will come at Kawhi's hands tho.

[Xiao Yao You]

ad will cook gobert.

i think your demise will come at Kawhi's hands tho.

Rudy has owned Davis. Not until the last couple years would his soft ass even get near Rudy. Lakers aren't who they need to worry about. Clippers and Denver are their competition as things stand right now

[GOBB]

Savior? Who said that. :oldlol:

He

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Savior? Who said that. :oldlol:

He

[GOBB]

It will be a team effort. That and defense is missing from almost all the other teams. Top offense and top defense means one of the best teams

I can

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]I can

[GOBB]

Gobert has carried them for 4 plus years so I'm not expecting that to suddenly change. They have 3 20 point scorers and Rudy put up over 17 a game when he didn't have Bricky and Favors on the floor with him.

And Utah has got how far? 2nd rd at best? Not even WCF. If you look at the past decade of teams who reached the finals. They all have one thing in common.

[Xiao Yao You]

And Utah has got how far? 2nd rd at best? Not even WCF. If you look at the past decade of teams who reached the finals. They all have one thing in common.

They've had very flawed rosters. Mediocre offense. They will be a top offensive and defensive team which is also something that finals teams usually are

[GOBB]

They've had very flawed rosters. Mediocre offense. They will be a top offensive and defensive team which is also something that finals teams usually are

So you think the Jazz can make it to the finals with the roster as is. Ain

[Jasper]

bucks tried him out , but passed on him to get Brogdan

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]So you think the Jazz can make it to the finals with the roster as is. Ain

[GOBB]

I think they are one of the top teams for sure. How far they make it remains to be seen. They have some question marks after their top 9 guys and a coach that has yet to show he can put the right guys on the floor. Gobert has been one of the top players in the game rather anyone realizes it or not

Defensively he’s a stud. I just feel he’s not the guy capable of carrying them to the finals. Most bigs who do are offensive oriented. Which is why I made the comment that if Mitchell could take it up a level he could be the offensive stud, Gobert the defensive anchor and the supporting cast doing what they do.

West is tough. Good luck out there.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Defensively he

[GOBB]

The offense revolves around Gobert too. All starts with his picks and often ends with him dunking it on a lob or putback

Rudy has avg 12, 13 and 11 last 3 postseasons. Maybe the offense revolving around him is the problem. That scoring output is not taking you far.

[brooks_thompson]

Mike Conley isn

[brooks_thompson]

I am worried about the Jazz power forward situation, though. I thought for sure they

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy has avg 12, 13 and 11 last 3 postseasons. Maybe the offense revolving around him is the problem. That scoring output is not taking you far.

no the problem was no shooters/spacing because of Rubio/Favors/Exum etc. that has been solved finally. Their turnovers and bricks made it tough on their D too. The improved offense will help tham at the other end as well

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=brooks_thompson]I am worried about the Jazz power forward situation, though. I thought for sure they

[GOBB]

no the problem was no shooters/spacing because of Rubio/Favors/Exum etc. that has been solved finally. Their turnovers and bricks made it tough on their D too. The improved offense will help tham at the other end as well

And you think the Jazz as is has a team that can go to the nba finals

[Xiao Yao You]

And you think the Jazz as is has a team that can go to the nba finals

best chance in 2 decades if not ever

[dbugz]

collectively consistent above average PG

[ralph_i_el]

I meant just Gasol was absolute prime. The rest were very good or still near prime

No

[imdaman99]

He's good, he's solid, he's a lot better than Rubio. But he's also injury prone. I remember him missing too many playoff games for the Grizz.

[DMAVS41]

Depends on who is rating him.

For the Jazz though, he's a massive upgrade and is exactly what they needed.

Seeing some of the discussion in this thread...yes, it is true that teams built like the Jazz don't win many titles historically...

However, given the state of the West...and the fact that Gobert has close to superstar impact...and with Mitchell likely to get even better....they could be closer to the "historical title winning team" than they look like initially on paper.

If they get the 1 or 2 seed...they absolutely could win the title in my opinion, but I think they really have to have a great regular season to do so.

They need to come out all business from day 1...

[Wally450]

This years Jazz team has last season's Celtics vibes about them on paper at least. Lets see if any egos arise during the season.

[GOBB]

Depends on who is rating him.

For the Jazz though, he's a massive upgrade and is exactly what they needed.

Seeing some of the discussion in this thread...yes, it is true that teams built like the Jazz don't win many titles historically...

However, given the state of the West...and the fact that Gobert has close to superstar impact...and with Mitchell likely to get even better....they could be closer to the "historical title winning team" than they look like initially on paper.

If they get the 1 or 2 seed...they absolutely could win the title in my opinion, but I think they really have to have a great regular season to do so.

They need to come out all business from day 1...

The state of the west features a Bron/Davis, Westbrook/Harden, Leonard/Pg13 duos. Some are generational talents, some are superstars. I don

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=GOBB]The state of the west features a Bron/Davis, Westbrook/Harden, Leonard/Pg13 duos. Some are generational talents, some are superstars. I don

[GOBB]

Well, yea...if you read my post it included a part about Mitchell improving. So, yes, Mitchell will have to go from all-star caliber to all-nba caliber...which I think is in the realm of possibility...especially playing a role better suited for him.

Of course they aren't favorites...you seem to be arguing against a position that is saying they are favorites to win...which doesn't exist.

The question is...could they win? And I think the answer is yes...there is a season in which they get the 1 or 2 seed...they are healthy...and Mitchell takes another mini-leap...and they win.

How likely? I don't know...tough to tell much before we've seen a game.

I don

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]I don

[brooks_thompson]

He's good, he's solid, he's a lot better than Rubio. But he's also injury prone. I remember him missing too many playoff games for the Grizz.

He missed 3 games with a broken face against Portland/Golden State in 2015, and he missed the 4-game sweep by the Spurs the following year due to Achilles soreness, which was just a precaution because the Grizz

[Levity]

conley is an amazing pick up for this team. wont have to do any of the heavy lifting like he did with the grizz. hes a solid PG who benefits any team hes on. Hopefully he can push mitchell to replicate his rookie year playoff success.

[brooks_thompson]

conley is an amazing pick up for this team. wont have to do any of the heavy lifting like he did with the grizz. hes a solid PG who benefits any team hes on. Hopefully he can push mitchell to replicate his rookie year playoff success.

I think he

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=GOBB]I don

[GOBB]

Well, Gobert is easily their best player imo...so I don't know who else would get more credit than him.

:confusedshrug:

Mitchell would need to be Jazz best player for them to reach nba finals.

[E_Stamkos]

.....Said nobody ever.

[Callystarr]

He had prime Gasol, Randolph, whiteside, Prince, Courtney Lee, Tony Allen, Mike Miller, James Johnson, Vince Carter :biggums: he had STACKED teams and failed miserably

looks like your mixing seasons. Their best season they didn't have James Johnson, Mike Miller, or Whiteside, but they are garbage anyway


Marc Gasol < Rudy Gobert - Gasol only shot 17% from 3pt during the year you are referencing. Gobert stats were stronger this past season than Gasol.

Zach Randolph > Jeff Green - but not by much...

Mike Conley Last year > Mike Conley Grizzlies

Joe Ingles > Courtney Lee, period. Courtney was a good shooter, but he offered nothing else during his 31 minutes on the court. Didn't rebound, didn't pass its like he was a body.

Brogdonovaic > Tayshawn Prince...

Donovan Mitchell > Tony Allen who was only a defensive presence.

Vince Carter averaged 6 points a game, so his days of Vincanity were WAY long gone.


Yeah I'll say he has a way better team this time around, easily. They won 55 games that year too with the "Stacked team" you mentioned.

[Callystarr]

I meant just Gasol was absolute prime. The rest were very good or still near prime

Prince prime was in Detroit, but if 6 and 8 ppg is prime....I digress...

[Callystarr]

Conley is solid, but his trade is making the Jazz overrated...people talking about top 2-3 seed now.

They were 4 games out of the #2 seed last season, and they upgraded with 2 great shooters (versus 2 poor shooters), and then also added bench depth....so not sure why jumping from the 5 seed to top 3 is sooooooooo INSANE :rolleyes:

[Callystarr]

Jazz are the last team Lebron wants to play in the playoffs. He hasn't won here in like a decade or something :lol

:lol

[Callystarr]

ad will cook gobert.

i think your demise will come at Kawhi's hands tho.

Actually Anthony Davis came into the NBA killing Rudy, but over the last 2 seasons, H2H

Anthony Davis 17.8ppg, 9,5Reb
Rudy Gobert 19.8ppg, 14.5Reb

So ummm...yeah Anthony Davis needs to step his game up, because Rudy clearly tames down Anthony Davis normal scoring adventures.

[highwhey]

Actually Anthony Davis came into the NBA killing Rudy, but over the last 2 seasons, H2H

Anthony Davis 17.8ppg, 9,5Reb
Rudy Gobert 19.8ppg, 14.5Reb

So ummm...yeah Anthony Davis needs to step his game up, because Rudy clearly tames down Anthony Davis normal scoring adventures.
too bad AD isn

[Callystarr]

[QUOTE=brooks_thompson]I am worried about the Jazz power forward situation, though. I thought for sure they

[Callystarr]

[QUOTE=highwhey]too bad AD isn

[Callystarr]

When the Spurs won their championship in 2013-2014 who was their superstar?

Because nobody was putting up more than 18 a game in the season or playoffs...

[highwhey]

I wasn't addressing an opinion, i was addressing the FAKE information on Anthony Davis killing Gobert when FACTUALLY Gobert has been killing AD.
and?

my point remains. jazz will get killed by lakers or clippers.

no killer=no finals

[Callystarr]

and?

my point remains. jazz will get killed by lakers or clippers.

no killer=no finals

Guess we will see. You can shout meaningless predictions all you want....

[highwhey]

When the Spurs won their championship in 2013-2014 who was their superstar?

Because nobody was putting up more than 18 a game in the season or playoffs...
:roll:

let me know when you have one of the best wing defenders ever and coach pop.

also, Duncan was averaging like 15ppg, Rudy Gobert who is 27, averaged 11ppg last playoffs...:oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Well, Gobert is easily their best player imo...so I don't know who else would get more credit than him.

:confusedshrug:

Others usually get the credit but to anyone paying attention it's been all about Rudy

[Xiao Yao You]

They were 4 games out of the #2 seed last season, and they upgraded with 2 great shooters (versus 2 poor shooters), and then also added bench depth....so not sure why jumping from the 5 seed to top 3 is sooooooooo INSANE :rolleyes:

they lost bench depth after their first 9 it's a lot of question marks with a coach that has yet to show he can put the right guys on the floor

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=highwhey]too bad AD isn

[Xiao Yao You]

and?

my point remains. jazz will get killed by lakers or clippers.

no killer=no finals

no defense might mean no playoffs for the Lakers

[RealSkipBayless]

They will have one of the best offenses in the league. The Lakers likely won't have one of the best defenses in the league. Not worried about them. Clippers and Denver is their competition right now

"Not worried about them"

You have zero championships. You don't get to flex like that. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

When the Spurs won their championship in 2013-2014 who was their superstar?

Because nobody was putting up more than 18 a game in the season or playoffs...

Tim Duncan not a generational talent?

[Xiao Yao You]

"Not worried about them"

You have zero championships. You don't get to flex like that. :oldlol:

Until the Lakers show they can play defense and not suck when Lebron and Davis are hurt I'm nt worried about them. Clippers and Denver are the teams to worry about and they have zero titles between them. Lakers have been a shitshow for a long while now

[highwhey]

no defense might mean no playoffs for the Lakers
:roll:

so LeBron, AD, Danny Green, Rondo all don't play good defense?

all those aforementioned play significantly better defense than Mitchell.

:roll:

[highwhey]

Jazz fans...are yall legit inbred?

srs question

[RealSkipBayless]

Jazz fans...are yall legit inbred?

srs question
People praised their free agency (rightfully so) and they got a bit overexcited thinking they run the conference now. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

:roll:

so LeBron, AD, Danny Green, Rondo all don't play good defense?

all those aforementioned play significantly better defense than Mitchell.

:roll:

Lebron wasn't playing any a year ago.

[highwhey]

Lebron wasn't playing any a year ago.
dude, have you not seen lebron the past 3-4 years? he coasts defensively during the reg season. it's the post season where he turns it on. that's where it matter the most and it's the only way he can keep being elite at his age.

[highwhey]

People praised their free agency (rightfully so) and they got a bit overexcited thinking they run the conference now. :oldlol:
:lol agreed, they made solid moves in the summer. big fan of Conley. they got shooters and good defense, but they aren't a contender. i think they'll for sure be a high seed 3-4. but they aren't beating the LA teams, it's questionable if they can beat the Rockets which are a tier below the LA teams.

always been a fan of Rudy too, he brings it defensively every night. I'd like to see a playoff series between Nuggets and Jazz, Rudy head to head vs Jokic...that would be some entertaining basketball.

[highwhey]

take out whoever is playing SF for the Jazz, Joe or Bojan...and replace them with Kawhi...now that's a contender. you guys are short a superstar that plays both ends.

[RealSkipBayless]

:lol agreed, they made solid moves in the summer. big fan of Conley. they got shooters and good defense, but they aren't a contender. i think they'll for sure be a high seed 3-4. but they aren't beating the LA teams, it's questionable if they can beat the Rockets which are a tier below the LA teams.

always been a fan of Rudy too, he brings it defensively every night. I'd like to see a playoff series between Nuggets and Jazz, Rudy head to head vs Jokic...that would be some entertaining basketball.
Yeah. Just sizing up each roster and lineup the LA teams are ahead of the rest. There are still plenty of variables that could alter this down the road.

Injuries of course. But other factors like who will take the leap. (Mitchell, Murray, Kuzma) How well Whiteside and Westbrook work for their teams etc..

[highwhey]

Yeah. Just sizing up each roster and lineup the LA teams are ahead of the rest. There are still plenty of variables that could alter this down the road.

Injuries of course. But other factors like who will take the leap. (Mitchell, Murray, Kuzma) How well Whiteside and Westbrook work for their teams etc..
agree with that assessment. as GOBB said, if Mitchell makes that leap, then sure, they can contend. I think he'll make that leap in 3-4 years tho.

seen enough NBA to know that you need a "killah" to contend, unless your the 04' Pistons. Jazz has good to great 3pt snipers, but we all saw what the Blazers-Nuggets series came down to: who could hit a mid range shot when 3's aren't falling down.

[Xiao Yao You]

dude, have you not seen lebron the past 3-4 years? he coasts defensively during the reg season. it's the post season where he turns it on. that's where it matter the most and it's the only way he can keep being elite at his age.

no post season a year ago. Good luck coasting in the west again!

[Xiao Yao You]

agree with that assessment. as GOBB said, if Mitchell makes that leap, then sure, they can contend. I think he'll make that leap in 3-4 years tho.

seen enough NBA to know that you need a "killah" to contend, unless your the 04' Pistons. Jazz has good to great 3pt snipers, but we all saw what the Blazers-Nuggets series came down to: who could hit a mid range shot when 3's aren't falling down.

and the Jazz have 3 guys that can score from all 3 levels. Good luck stopping them especially if you don't play D like most of the league

[DMAVS41]

Mitchell would need to be Jazz best player for them to reach nba finals.

I don't think so.

If Mitchell impacts the game overall even with Gobert or slightly less...they'd have two all-nba caliber players with a really good supporting cast.

Simply put...if Mitchell could come close to equaling, on offense, the impact Gobert has on defense...that absolutely makes them a legit finals contender.

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't think so.

If Mitchell impacts the game overall even with Gobert or slightly less...they'd have two all-nba caliber players with a really good supporting cast.

Simply put...if Mitchell could come close to equaling, on offense, the impact Gobert has on defense...that absolutely makes them a legit finals contender.

I think it's time for Mitchell to step up defensively now too. He shouldn't have to use all his energy on offense now that he has help

[DMAVS41]

I think it's time for Mitchell to step up defensively now too. He shouldn't have to use all his energy on offense now that he has help

Absolutely.

Conley will be a big influence on him for that...and, of course, he should have more energy like you say now that the offense should be considerably better around him.

[GOBB]

agree with that assessment. as GOBB said, if Mitchell makes that leap, then sure, they can contend. I think he'll make that leap in 3-4 years tho.

seen enough NBA to know that you need a "killah" to contend, unless your the 04' Pistons. Jazz has good to great 3pt snipers, but we all saw what the Blazers-Nuggets series came down to: who could hit a mid range shot when 3's aren't falling down.

Yep and Utah is no Detroit

[highwhey]

Absolutely.

Conley will be a big influence on him for that...and, of course, he should have more energy like you say now that the offense should be considerably better around him.
i haven't seen superstar flashes out of mitchell. expecting him to become one next season is a bad bet.

sure, the extra help will go a long way...like i said, i expect them to be a high seed. but we've all seen good teams come short of being legit title contenders. they need a superstar on offense. Rudy's defense is as good as it gets, but they need more than shooters. they need a real offensive threat.

shame bc someone like Booker on that team would be interesting. his defensive woes would be masked and he could play off ball. thing about Booker is he can score at will on anyone. that's the type of killer you need. you guys talk about Mitch not having help, but he came into the league with a good defensive team and an elite 3pt shooter. Booker has never had any of those things but manages to average 26ppg despite being triple teamed and having to create for his teammates bc there's not PG. that's the type of killer you need. not saying Booker is a superstar, he's not, but offensively he can compete with the top 10 players on offense alone.

[DMAVS41]

i haven't seen superstar flashes out of mitchell. expecting him to become one next season is a bad bet.

sure, the extra help will go a long way...like i said, i expect them to be a high seed. but we've all seen good teams come short of being legit title contenders. they need a superstar on offense. Rudy's defense is as good as it gets, but they need more than shooters. they need a real offensive threat.

shame bc someone like Booker on that team would be interesting. his defensive woes would be masked and he could play off ball. thing about Booker is he can score at will on anyone. that's the type of killer you need. you guys talk about Mitch not having help, but he came into the league with a good defensive team and an elite 3pt shooter. Booker has never had any of those things but manages to average 26ppg despite being triple teamed and having to create for his teammates bc there's not PG. that's the type of killer you need. not saying Booker is a superstar, he's not, but offensively he can compete with the top 10 players on offense alone.

I do not expect Mitchell to become a superstar...never said that at all so like most of your posts...I have no idea where you are coming from.

I think a fair expectation would be that he improves his game overall on his own and that translates to a higher impact on the court given improved circumstances.

[Callystarr]

they lost bench depth after their first 9 it's a lot of question marks with a coach that has yet to show he can put the right guys on the floor

Negative.

Mudiay
Ingles
Davis
Exum
O

[Xiao Yao You]

i haven't seen superstar flashes out of mitchell. expecting him to become one next season is a bad bet.

sure, the extra help will go a long way...like i said, i expect them to be a high seed. but we've all seen good teams come short of being legit title contenders. they need a superstar on offense. Rudy's defense is as good as it gets, but they need more than shooters. they need a real offensive threat.

shame bc someone like Booker on that team would be interesting. his defensive woes would be masked and he could play off ball. thing about Booker is he can score at will on anyone. that's the type of killer you need. you guys talk about Mitch not having help, but he came into the league with a good defensive team and an elite 3pt shooter. Booker has never had any of those things but manages to average 26ppg despite being triple teamed and having to create for his teammates bc there's not PG. that's the type of killer you need. not saying Booker is a superstar, he's not, but offensively he can compete with the top 10 players on offense alone.

more shooters than Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Bojan, Niang, O'Neale, Green?

[Xiao Yao You]

Negative.

Mudiay
Ingles
Davis
Exum
O’Neale

Is better than...

Neto
Favors
ONeale
Korver
Sefolosha

So they replaced their lack of bench depth with other guys and I count 9 that are proven NBA rotation guys. What was your point? :confusedshrug:

But you have your opinion, and I have mine

Mudiay showed he could score on what was basically a Gleague team last year. Yet to show he can defend or score efficiently though.

Exum is a defensive specialist and one of the worst offensive players in basketball.

Take Neto over either of them any day but am glad he is gone because he's never been appreciated by the team or the fans.

Favors didn't fit and made too much money

Korver was old and Quin overused him but I will miss watching him

Loved Thabo but like Neto glad he's gone since the coach didn't like him.

[highwhey]

more shooters than Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Bojan, Niang, O'Neale, Green?
you still don't get it huh?

[highwhey]

I do not expect Mitchell to become a superstar...never said that at all so like most of your posts...I have no idea where you are coming from.

I think a fair expectation would be that he improves his game overall on his own and that translates to a higher impact on the court given improved circumstances.
your post should have ended there. jazz ain't going to the finals, period.

[DMAVS41]

your post should have ended there. jazz ain't going to the finals, period.

And I never said I'd pick them to make the finals.

I say they could make the finals realistically...

:cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

you still don't get it huh?

Sure I do. The 5th seed the past two years with one of the best defenses in the league now has one of the best offenses as well. Makes them one of the favorites rather you like it or not

[NBAGOAT]

Sure I do. The 5th seed the past two years with one of the best defenses in the league now has one of the best offenses as well. Makes them one of the favorites rather you like it or not

i kind of doubt adding conley and bojan elevates an average offense(15th, 16th last two years) to one of the best offenses. Top 10 sure however. Top 10 offense with a top 5 defense seems like utah's profile which is great but not a clear favorite.

Clippers seems like a clear top 5 offense even with missed games from kawhi, george. Rockets will score a lot with westbrook or harden on the court at all times. Gs still has the best offensive engine in the league in curry with dangelo to pick up some slack and a focused draymond. Dont think Bucks will drop that much losing brogdon. Lakers have lebron/ad and some shooters at least, on paper that's a formula that's enough for a top offense. Finally, denver may be even better offensively than they were last year with harris, barton more healthy and possible improvement from murray.

[GOBB]

Sure I do. The 5th seed the past two years with one of the best defenses in the league now has one of the best offenses as well. Makes them one of the favorites rather you like it or not

Vegas odds say otherwise as Clippers Lakers Rockets Warriors have higher odds to win the West. With Jazz tied with Nuggets as far as odds go. You should drop money on the Jazz reaching finals. The payout is rewarding

[Xiao Yao You]

i kind of doubt adding conley and bojan elevates an average offense(15th, 16th last two years) to one of the best offenses. Top 10 sure however. Top 10 offense with a top 5 defense seems like utah's profile which is great but not a clear favorite.

Clippers seems like a clear top 5 offense even with missed games from kawhi, george. Rockets will score a lot with westbrook or harden on the court at all times. Gs still has the best offensive engine in the league in curry with dangelo to pick up some slack and a focused draymond. Dont think Bucks will drop that much losing brogdon. Lakers have lebron/ad and some shooters at least, on paper that's a formula that's enough for a top offense. Finally, denver may be even better offensively than they were last year with harris, barton more healthy and possible improvement from murray.

I can't see how the aren't one of the best offenses. Gobert put up over 17 a game two years ago when they benched Favors and the ghost of Joe Johnson/and the corpse of Boris Diaw took his spot and an injured George Hill instead of Bricky. They've also been a lot better with JCrowder instead of Favors. Gobert set a record for dunks last year without the spacing he'll now have. Those guys are replaced with two 20 point a game scorers who are dangerous from all 3 levels. One of them or Mitchell is going to score or Rudy is going to get a lob/put back or a great shooter will get an open 3. Pick your poison. How do you stop that? :confusedshrug:

[Xiao Yao You]

Vegas odds say otherwise as Clippers Lakers Rockets Warriors have higher odds to win the West. With Jazz tied with Nuggets as far as odds go. You should drop money on the Jazz reaching finals. The payout is rewarding

Good for Vegas. I see LAC/Den/Uth/Mil/Phi right now.

[GOBB]

Good for Vegas. I see LAC/Den/Uth/Mil/Phi right now.

Well you can’t say they are favorites. As a Jazz fan I get how you feel they have a chance. But to say they are one of the favorites whether you like it or not isn’t true. Otherwise the odds would be on their side.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Well you can

[Levity]

yeah like Vegas isn't ever wrong. Lakers, GS and Boston are favorites according to them and none of them concern me right now at all

how on earth is boston a favorite in vegas. mind-blowing.

[Xiao Yao You]

how on earth is boston a favorite in vegas. mind-blowing.

exactly. GS with Klay out? Russell has never impressed me either

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Well you can

[Xiao Yao You]

Last time I checked they had the 7th best odds...

13 or 14 to 1 is actually a show of quite a bit of respect by Vegas.

and I have them in the top 5

[NBAGOAT]

I can't see how the aren't one of the best offenses. Gobert put up over 17 a game two years ago when they benched Favors and the ghost of Joe Johnson/and the corpse of Boris Diaw took his spot and an injured George Hill instead of Bricky. They've also been a lot better with JCrowder instead of Favors. Gobert set a record for dunks last year without the spacing he'll now have. Those guys are replaced with two 20 point a game scorers who are dangerous from all 3 levels. One of them or Mitchell is going to score or Rudy is going to get a lob/put back or a great shooter will get an open 3. Pick your poison. How do you stop that? :confusedshrug:

i let mitchell beat me in isolation. He's not a that lvl yet of a offensive superstar who can carry great offenses but could prove me wrong next year. The spacing will for sure help but you still have to either hit contested shots at a high clip or be great at finding open guys. Mitchell isnt really either yet.

[RealSkipBayless]

exactly. GS with Klay out? Russell has never impressed me either
Yep.

Who knows if they can even hang on in the west until Klay comes back in February.

Isn't their starting 5
Curry
Russell
Mckinnie
Draymond
Cauley-Stein

That lineup will get torched and abused. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

yeah like Vegas isn't ever wrong. Lakers, GS and Boston are favorites according to them and none of them concern me right now at all

Milw and Philly are ahead of Boston. That

[NBAGOAT]

Yep.

Who knows if they can even hang on in the west until Klay comes back in February.

Isn't their starting 5
Curry
Russell
Mckinnie
Draymond
Cauley-Stein

That lineup will get torched and abused. :oldlol:

it's ok overalll if 16 draymond comes back with the defensive effort. The bench is a joke however, it's looney and bunch of rookies/veterans no one wanted. They need klay badly since they dont even have a wing.

[GOBB]

Last time I checked they had the 7th best odds...

13 or 14 to 1 is actually a show of quite a bit of respect by Vegas.

That

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=GOBB]That

[Xiao Yao You]

i let mitchell beat me in isolation. He's not a that lvl yet of a offensive superstar who can carry great offenses but could prove me wrong next year. The spacing will for sure help but you still have to either hit contested shots at a high clip or be great at finding open guys. Mitchell isnt really either yet.

He won't have to beat you in iso. He's got two other 20 point scorers, the all-time dunker waiting at the rim and knock down shooters waiting to drill the 3. He won't have the contested shots and more guys will be wide open. His job just got a lot easier

[Xiao Yao You]

Yep.

Who knows if they can even hang on in the west until Klay comes back in February.

Isn't their starting 5
Curry
Russell
Mckinnie
Draymond
Cauley-Stein

That lineup will get torched and abused. :oldlol:

especially if they get a tough schedule to start the year

[DMAVS41]

Yep.

Who knows if they can even hang on in the west until Klay comes back in February.

Isn't their starting 5
Curry
Russell
Mckinnie
Draymond
Cauley-Stein

That lineup will get torched and abused. :oldlol:

The odds are factoring in the potential of Klay coming back with a month or so left in the season...getting game ready and GS making the playoffs.

Nobody thinks they stand a chance without Klay.

But I'll say...with Klay and making the playoffs? I would not put it at unreasonable they make the finals.

Curry/Russell/Klay/Draymond...or Russell being moved for something else is still super dangerous.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Milw and Philly are ahead of Boston. That

[Xiao Yao You]

The odds are factoring in the potential of Klay coming back with a month or so left in the season...getting game ready and GS making the playoffs.

Nobody thinks they stand a chance without Klay.

But I'll say...with Klay and making the playoffs? I would not put it at unreasonable they make the finals.

Curry/Russell/Klay/Draymond...or Russell being moved for something else is still super dangerous.

It's possible that they don't make the playoffs. They are on the wrong coast

[DMAVS41]

It's possible that they don't make the playoffs. They are on the wrong coast

Yes, possible, but the odds makers aren't going to shade the line in the direction that can only hurt them.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jazz have been one of the toughest matchups for GS. They don't worry me either right now. Denver and the Clippers are their competition in the west at the moment