The GOAT must have the best teams of his era.... right? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

ScalsFan21

07-15-2019, 05:14 PM

If not, why is it okay for a supposed goat candidate to play with dozens of different teammates over 17 years, yet have his peers field the best teams?

This is the singular reason lebron ISN'T goat - he didn't win tbe most rings/field the best teams of his era... So its the same old story that everyone always says - ring count is the biggest goat factor.

It means he faced more competition, as contenders go. There's not a different stratosphere that GOATs reach where just by being you, your team is automatically the best in the league. Jordan's greatness wasn't the sole reason Chicago was the favorite just about every time they won and he has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger. :roll:

He did, however, win 3 rings already, which is tied for the most during his era, contrary to what you just said. You can't blame him for not winning when he was 15, can you? Since he joined the league, his teams have won 3, GSW has won 3, nobody else has won more than 2, whether that's teams or (I think) players.

sdot_thadon

07-15-2019, 05:28 PM

It means he faced more competition, as contenders go. There's not a different stratosphere that GOATs reach where just by being you, your team is automatically the best in the league. Jordan's greatness wasn't the sole reason Chicago was the favorite just about every time they won and he has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger. :roll:

He did, however, win 3 rings already, which is tied for the most during his era, contrary to what you just said. You can't blame him for not winning when he was 15, can you? Since he joined the league, his teams have won 3, GSW has won 3, nobody else has won more than 2, whether that's teams or (I think) players.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

3ball

07-15-2019, 07:41 PM

It means he faced more competition, as contenders go.

Lebron didn't face more comp, but facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs again..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

There's not a different stratosphere that GOATs reach where just by being you, your team is automatically the best in the league.

Uh, yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option, MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - but it doesn't work that way for lebron because he isn't goat.. it works that way for MJ because he is

and he has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger. :roll:

MJ had bigger upsets than Lebron:

2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Both MJ and lebron had young teams in those years.. But when they had better teams and casts in later years, only mj had perennial favorites, while lebron still had perennial underdogs despite good casts

you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

and he has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger. :roll:

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, but MJ took a low seed to ECF:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

But again, being an underdog is a bad thing... you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

He did, however, win 3 rings already, which is tied for the most during his era,

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. :facepalm ... gtfo
.

RRR3

07-15-2019, 07:42 PM

We need to stage an intervention for 3ball.

tpols

07-15-2019, 07:48 PM

We need to stage an intervention for 3ball.

:roll:

he just ether'ed scal tho.

RRR3

07-15-2019, 07:52 PM

:roll:

he just ether'ed scal tho.
It doesn’t even matter if he’s right at this point.

3ball

07-15-2019, 08:40 PM

:roll:

he just ether'ed scal tho.

appreciate that

and scal ran

Da_Realist

07-15-2019, 08:43 PM

Lebron didn't face more comp, but facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs again..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

Uh, yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option, MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - but it doesn't work that way for lebron because he isn't goat.. it works that way for MJ because he is

MJ had bigger upsets than Lebron:

2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Both MJ and lebron had young teams in those years.. But when they had better teams and casts in later years, only mj had perennial favorites, while lebron still had perennial underdogs despite good casts

you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, but MJ took a low seed to ECF:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

But again, you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. :facepalm ... gtfo
.

Beautiful. Especially the bolded. :applause:

NBAGOAT

07-15-2019, 08:50 PM

this point is a good one but loses a little credibility with how often you've cited the bulls as an underdog lol(i believe for 91, 93 and 98).

Like I'm just pretty sure your position is even if it was 96 Bulls vs any kd warriors team, you would be saying the Bulls are huge underdogs because of the talent disparity... but they're winning anyway because of the goat's carryjob. If the warriors talent is too much pick them, if mj can carry hard enough dont call them a huge underdog. Just trying to have your cake and eat it too.

FKAri

07-15-2019, 08:52 PM

Lebron didn't face more comp, but facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs again..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

Uh, yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option, MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - but it doesn't work that way for lebron because he isn't goat.. it works that way for MJ because he is

MJ had bigger upsets than Lebron:

2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Both MJ and lebron had young teams in those years.. But when they had better teams and casts in later years, only mj had perennial favorites, while lebron still had perennial underdogs despite good casts

you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, but MJ took a low seed to ECF:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

But again, being an underdog is a bad thing... you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. :facepalm ... gtfo
.
OP's not just on the spectrum. He's all over it. Like a gay pride flag of autism.

StrongLurk

07-15-2019, 09:10 PM

OP was again only picking certain narratives/viewpoints to support whatever thread he makes and conveniently ignores that he has refuted those same points in different threads.

What's new?

guy

07-15-2019, 10:03 PM

superduper

07-15-2019, 10:16 PM

People can meme about 3ball all they want he just straight ethered fools as much as they don't want to admit it

3ball

07-15-2019, 10:24 PM

this point is a good one but loses a little credibility with how often you've cited the bulls as an underdog lol(i believe for 91, 93 and 98).

It holds plenty of cred because the Bulls won all their Finals and are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers

Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

Like I'm just pretty sure your position is even if it was 96 Bulls vs any kd warriors team, you would be saying the Bulls are huge underdogs because of the talent disparity... but they're winning anyway because of the goat's carryjob. If the warriors talent is too much pick them, if mj can carry hard enough dont call them a huge underdog. Just trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Negative.. the 96' Bulls would put Curry and Klay to bed easily (unathletic kids that routinely get hurt trying to dunk).. It's hard to imagine Curry/Klay holding a candle to MJ/Scottie

Adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'... :kobe: ... :yaohappy:
.

Vino24

07-15-2019, 10:28 PM

Bill Russell is the GOAT and he made his team the GOAT.

NBAGOAT

07-15-2019, 10:29 PM

It holds plenty of cred because the Bulls won all their Finals and are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers

Negative.. the 96' Bulls would put Curry and Klay to bed easily (unathletic kids that routinely get hurt trying to dunk).. It's hard to imagine Curry/Klay holding a candle to MJ/Scottie

Adding KD doesn't matter - peak MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'... :kobe: ... :yaohappy:

well first you're just ignoring one certain player in kd lol but let's go off these claims then. Do you believe the same for other versions of the Bulls or do the kd warriors win? If you do, then does MJ being an underdog according to you in 91, 93, and 98 mean you truly believe the lakers, suns, and jazz are better than the kd warriors.

fyi, i'll get shit for this but I think the rockets are better than those 3 teams personally.

3ball

07-15-2019, 10:31 PM

Bill Russell is the GOAT and he made his team the GOAT.
At 2-pointer basketball.... :(

MJ has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball.. :bowdown:

Vino24

07-15-2019, 10:35 PM

At 2-pointer basketball.... :(

MJ has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball.. :bowdown:
Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one) :lol

jstern

07-15-2019, 10:39 PM

Lebron didn't face more comp, but facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs again..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

Uh, yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option, MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - but it doesn't work that way for lebron because he isn't goat.. it works that way for MJ because he is

MJ had bigger upsets than Lebron:

2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Both MJ and lebron had young teams in those years.. But when they had better teams and casts in later years, only mj had perennial favorites, while lebron still had perennial underdogs despite good casts

you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, but MJ took a low seed to ECF:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

But again, being an underdog is a bad thing... you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. :facepalm ... gtfo
.

:bowdown:

3ball

07-15-2019, 10:48 PM

well first you're just ignoring one certain player in kd lol but let's go off these claims then. Do you believe the same for other versions of the Bulls or do the kd warriors win?

The goat Bulls were never down 3-2, on the ropes and needing an opponent injury to advance

So adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'

If you do, then does MJ being an underdog according to you in 91, 93, and 98 mean you truly believe the lakers, suns, and jazz are better than the kd warriors.

The Bulls were Vegas favorites in all their Finals, but underdogs in the media/public perception for 91' and 98' because they were newbies and oldies, respectively

Ultimately, the Bulls are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers.. Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of this era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

StrongLurk

07-15-2019, 10:55 PM

The goat Bulls were never down 3-2, on the ropes and needing an opponent injury to advance

So adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'

The Bulls were Vegas favorites in all their Finals, but underdogs in the media/public perception for 91' and 98' because they were newbies and oldies, respectively

Ultimately, the Bulls are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers.. Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of this era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

More trolling.

NBAGOAT

07-15-2019, 10:55 PM

3ball

07-15-2019, 11:02 PM

i didnt say anything about lebron here lol. which one should be the final say media perception or vegas odds. Please pick one so ik where you stand
It doesn't matter

Just have the best team of your era

MJ did, while Lebron doesn't and ceded the best teams to multiple other teams/players

Infact, Lebron gets spanked every Finals, except a couple times when teammates saved him, or a shortened season versus beginners whose luck had run out

It's significant that lebron's Finals losses are decisive losses, while his wins are literally one-possession toss-ups that could've gone either way.. we don't know if lebron is really a 1-9 bum because he needed luck to win a couple of his rings
.

NBAGOAT

07-15-2019, 11:09 PM

It doesn't matter

Just have the best team of your era

MJ did, while Lebron doesn't and ceded the best teams to multiple other teams/players

Infact, Lebron gets spanked every Finals, except a couple times when teammates saved him, or a shortened season versus beginners whose luck had run out

ok then i'm done with this conversation and i havent mentioned lebron at all. You want to be able to say the bulls had the best teams based on vegas odds for certain threads but be able to say they were an underdog in certain finals/series based on media perception(most likely because of a talent deficit) in other threads to ofc tear down some players. Intellectually dishonest.

you dont have to say the bulls are underdogs to show the bulls had less talent compared to other contenders. There are other simpler ways to discuss talent besides defaulting to pre series predictions. even your lazy use of box score stats is better.

Vino24

07-15-2019, 11:14 PM

Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one) :lol
Yikes!

3ball

07-15-2019, 11:28 PM

Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one) :lol
What point are you trying to make and I'll respond to it

To answer the question you posed - Shaq was the closest thing to Wilt that MJ faced

But remember, MJ relied on teamwork to win, not just talent - and when he had a full season to generate the teamwork with an entirely new cast, he swept Shaq.. it wasn't a contest

Vino24

07-15-2019, 11:31 PM

What point are you trying to make and I'll respond to it

To answer the question you posed - Shaq was the closest thing to Wilt that MJ faced

But remember, MJ relied on teamwork to win, not just talent - and when he had a full season to generate the teamwork with an entirely new cast, he swept Shaq.. it wasn't a contest
MJ had great team work no doubt but it wasn

3ball

07-15-2019, 11:34 PM

ok then i'm done with this conversation and i havent mentioned lebron at all. You want to be able to say the bulls had the best teams based on vegas odds for certain threads but be able to say they were an underdog in certain finals/series based on media perception(most likely because of a talent deficit) in other threads to ofc tear down some players. Intellectually dishonest.

No, both are simply true

The bulls were Vegas favorites (https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-main/?y=1990-1991&sa=nba&a=finals&o=r) for all their Finals, and yes, media/fan/public perception underdogs in 91' and 98'

But you're derailing about the odds to avoid the thread title

MJ had the best teams of his era as a goat must

3ball

07-15-2019, 11:47 PM

MJ had great team work no doubt but it wasn’t on Russell’s GOAT 8-peating teamwork level
MJ's tight relationship with his dad was the foundation of his mental fortitude..

But it became a vulnerability when his dad was taken away - he didn't feel like playing anymore..

his stint in baseball was literal therapy, as it was always a dream of MJ's dad for MJ to play baseball... A biographer of MJ once described it - MJ was like "we're doin' this Pop", everyday on his way to baseball practice.. It was "classic mourning"

So ultimately, the murder of MJ's father prevented 8 straight rings and breaking Russell's record.. It's a testament to MJ's goatness that he had a chance to achieve the feat in the modern era - NO ONE thought 8 straight was possible in the modern era, but goat MJ could've done it... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
.

bigkingsfan

07-15-2019, 11:49 PM

Ordan couldn't even win a single game against Birdy.

3ball

07-16-2019, 12:11 AM

Ordan couldn't even win a single game against Birdy.
0-6 vs bird as the 8 seed vs 1 seed

0-4 vs Duncan as the 2 seed vs 1 seed (07')

1-9 vs Durant Warriors as the 2 and 4 seed (17/18')

So MJ only lost with the worst odds and seeds, while Lebron lost with much better odds and higher seeds (and even as the favorite 3 times)..

the goat only gets swept when he has the worst odds, while lebron gets swept with better odds and higher seeds

bigkingsfan

07-16-2019, 12:30 AM

0-6 vs bird as the 8 seed vs 1 seed

0-4 vs Duncan as the 2 seed vs 1 seed (07')

1-9 vs Durant Warriors as the 2 and 4 seed (17/18')

So MJ only lost with the worst odds and seeds, while Lebron lost with much better odds and higher seeds (and even as the favorite 3 times)..

the goat only gets swept when he has the worst odds, while lebron gets swept with better odds and higher seeds
Came back and handed Duncan/Kawhi only lost in the finals.

Beat a 73 wins team.

While Ordan got swept repeatedly.

3ball

07-16-2019, 12:49 AM

Came back and handed Duncan/Kawhi only lost in the finals.

Beat a 73 wins team.

While Ordan got swept repeatedly.
As young players with developing teams, both MJ and Lebron got swept by champs

But once they both had good teams, MJ had consistent juggernauts that never lost, while lebron was still getting swept, lost twice by record amount, and everyone and their mama got to eat/win rings on his watch

No comparison.. :facepalm

sdot_thadon

07-16-2019, 01:42 AM

Dude you're stepping all over your own feet at this point. Make up your damn mind.

Is Mj and the Bulls underdogs because they faced grueling talent in every finals?

Or is Mj the goat making his team the super favorite because he exists?

Were his teammates trash and were the worst supporting cast; made Mj carry the biggest load?

Or were they the greatest team of his era?

Lebron beat the old spurs? but Mj beat the young jazz?

Lebron beat the warrirors before durant? Mj beat showtime after Kareem?

You sound pretty conflicted fella.

bigkingsfan

07-16-2019, 01:55 AM

As young players with developing teams, both MJ and Lebron got swept by champs

But once they both had good teams, MJ had consistent juggernauts that never lost, while lebron was still getting swept, lost twice by record amount, and everyone and their mama got to eat/win rings on his watch

No comparison.. :facepalm
Legoat beat them on the 2nd try but Ordan got swept again.

3ball

07-16-2019, 02:14 PM

Dude you're stepping all over your own feet at this point. Make up your damn mind.

Is Mj and the Bulls underdogs because they faced grueling talent in every finals? No, they were favorites because they'd demonstrated they were the best team via MJ and goat teamwork

Or is Mj the goat making his team the super favorite because he exists? Yes, this is true .. plus the goat teamwork

Were his teammates trash and were the worst supporting cast; made Mj carry the biggest load? Yes, but goat teamwork offset their weak talent

Or were they the greatest team of his era? Yes

Lebron beat the old spurs? but Mj beat the young jazz? No, Lebron lost to the old Spurs, but MJ never lost to the old Jazz

You sound pretty conflicted fella. No, you just don't consider teamwork in any of your analysis..

Hope that helps

sdot_thadon

07-16-2019, 04:05 PM

Hope that helps
No amount of you twisting your brain into a pretzel helps me my friend. Just batshit insane to see so much hypocrisy in one guy.

3ball

07-16-2019, 09:09 PM

No amount of you twisting your brain into a pretzel helps me my friend. Just batshit insane to see so much hypocrisy in one guy.
I was clear as day

You just don't respect teamwork and your analysis omits it, which is why your predictions are laughably wrong and mine are right

We've been going back and forth on teamwork for years.. you don't respect it, in part because your hero and his media ignores it too... To you guys, a championship is a function of how much talent you have, nothing more.. if you have enough talent, you win.. if you don't, you lose..

This way of thinking is obviously wrong, and I'll continue to point it out... And then you'll continue to pretend I'm crazy for even considering something like..... "teamwork"..... lol.. rinse respeat, carry on fool.. looking forward to your next prediction or taken evaluation

Vino24

07-16-2019, 09:14 PM

I was clear as day

You just don't respect teamwork and your analysis omits it, which is why your predictions are laughably wrong and mine are right

We've been going back and forth on teamwork for years.. you don't respect it, in part because your hero and his media ignores it too... To you guys, a championship is a function of how much talent you have, nothing more.. if you have enough talent, you win.. if you don't, you lose..

This way of thinking is obviously wrong, and I'll continue to point it out... And then you'll continue to pretend I'm crazy for even considering something like..... "teamwork"..... lol.. rinse respeat, carry on fool.. looking forward to your next prediction or taken evaluation
you are as clear as mud

3ball

07-16-2019, 09:23 PM

you are as clear as mud
Bottom line.. facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly, or an even better team for that matter..

But instead of having the best teams of his era that win every year, he had inferior teams that rarely won and has losing records to 3 different teams in the Finals

Seriously, why didn't Lebron flirt with 70 wins in 2016 like Kawhi or Curry? He managed to win that year, but the upset nature of their win carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs AGAIN..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again

See the difference?

Vino24

07-16-2019, 09:26 PM

Bottom line.. facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly, or an even better team for that matter..

But instead of having the best teams of his era that win every year, he had inferior teams that rarely won and has losing records to 3 different teams in the Finals

Seriously, why didn't Lebron flirt with 70 wins in 2016 like Kawhi or Curry? His cast was just as good, maybe better.. Sure, he won it that year, but the upset nature of their win carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs AGAIN..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again
why did the Cav's miss the playoffs the year LeBron left? what changed?

3ball

07-16-2019, 09:37 PM

why did the Cav's miss the playoffs the year LeBron left? what changed?
They lost their top 2 players

It's like if MJ and Pippen retired in 1994 - the bulls probably do poorly.. Great teamwork can only offset talent so much - you can't lose BOTH guys and expect teamwork to make up for it... And the Cavs didn't even have good teamwork, so they were screwed - there was no talent to fall back on (no love), and no teamwork (they had played bron-ball in 18')

But in reality, the team was in free-fall since Kyrie rejected Lebron-ball and left.. they barely beat weak Indiana and Boston teams, and then got blown away by record amount in the Finals .. lebron's team played such horrible ball that their conference champion 4 seed got beat worse than MJ's lottery 8 seeds lost to Bird's Celtics... As usual, Jordan's superior brand gets more out of less - story of their respective careers... :confusedshrug: .. that's why MJ had the best teams of his era, while Bron didn't

Vino24

07-16-2019, 09:43 PM

They lost their top 2 players

It's like if MJ and Pippen retired in 1994 - the bulls probably do poorly.. Great teamwork can only offset talent so much - you can't lose BOTH guys and expect teamwork to make up for it... And the Cavs didn't even have good teamwork, so they were screwed - there was no talent to fall back on (no love), and no teamwork (they had played bron-ball in 18')

But in reality, the team was in free-fall since Kyrie rejected Lebron-ball and left.. they barely beat weak Indiana and Boston teams, and then got blown away by record amount in the Finals .. lebron's team played such horrible ball that their conference champion 4 seed got beat worse than MJ's lottery 8 seeds lost to Bird's Celtics... As usual, Jordan's superior brand gets more out of less - story of their respective careers... :confusedshrug: .. that's why MJ had the best teams of his era, while Bron didn't
No. They made the finals just fine without Kyrie. Why did they miss the playoffs without Bron?

3ball

07-16-2019, 09:48 PM

No. They made the finals just fine without Kyrie. Why did they miss the playoffs without Bron?
They lost their top 2 players (love, lebron)

It's like if MJ and Pippen retired in 1994 - the bulls probably do poorly.. Great teamwork can only offset talent so much - you can't lose BOTH guys and expect teamwork to make up for it...

And the Cavs didn't even have good teamwork, so they were screwed - there was no talent to fall back on (no love), and no teamwork (they had played bron-ball in 18')

Vino24

07-16-2019, 09:50 PM

They lost their top 2 players (love, lebron)

It's like if MJ and Pippen retired in 1994 - the bulls probably do poorly.. Great teamwork can only offset talent so much - you can't lose BOTH guys and expect teamwork to make up for it...

And the Cavs didn't even have good teamwork, so they were screwed - there was no talent to fall back on (no love), and no teamwork (they had played bron-ball in 18')
Love should get to the playoffs this year no problem. Especially since the Cav's have one of the highest payrolls

3ball

07-16-2019, 09:58 PM

Love should get to the playoffs this year no problem. Especially since the Cav's have one of the highest payrolls
They could make it, but guys are older and less motivated now

Lebron used up their prime and dipped on em'... :facepalm

Now AD will use him up and dip on him right back ... :applause: ... Give LeTeamHop a bit of his own medicine

RRR3

07-16-2019, 10:01 PM

They could make it, but guys are older and less motivated now

Lebron used up their prime and dipped on em'... :facepalm

Now AD will use him up and dip on him right back ... :applause: ... Give LeTeamHop a bit of his own medicine
Meltdown.

LeBron is a far superior player to MJ.

3ball

07-16-2019, 10:23 PM

Meltdown.

LeBron is a far superior player to MJ.
And DeRozan is a far superior player to Lebron

When in Rome.....

RRR3

07-16-2019, 10:53 PM

And DeRozan is a far superior player to Lebron

When in Rome.....
LeBron=better defender, passer, rebounder and higher BBall IQ. Also better 3PT shooter, better finisher at the rim, better father, better human being, better fashion sense and better looking.

3ball

07-16-2019, 10:57 PM

LeBron=better defender, passer, rebounder and higher BBall IQ. Also better 3PT shooter, better finisher at the rim, better father, better human being, better fashion sense and better looking.
Out of everything you said, the bolded makes me laugh the most

His style is so genius that his teams are essentially the "Clippers of the Finals", i.e. perennial doormats in the championship.. the guy sucks compared to Jordan

sdot_thadon

07-16-2019, 10:59 PM

Out of everything you said, the bolded makes me laugh the most

His style is so genius that his teams are essentially the "Clippers of the Finals", i.e. perennial doormats in the championship.. the guy sucks compared to Jordan
perennial doormat in a 3 way tie with most rings in his era.:oldlol:

3ball

07-17-2019, 12:00 AM

perennial doormat in a 3 way tie with most rings in his era.:oldlol:
The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

sdot_thadon

07-17-2019, 12:45 AM

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo
2004 till now, the lebron era:
spurs 3 rings
warrirors 3 rings
lebron 3 rings
yet 2 ate like kings and one got table scraps:facepalm

3ball

07-17-2019, 02:00 AM

2004 till now, the lebron era:
spurs 3 rings
warrirors 3 rings
lebron 3 rings
yet 2 ate like kings and one got table scraps:facepalm
The Warriors/Spurs are 5-2 versus Lebron in the Finals, and are the best of the era

Quite simply, lebron should've had the best teams of the era if he's goat, but he didn't..

So why didn't Lebron have the best teams of the era? Why were his teams winning 57 and 51 games while Kawhi/Curry were flirting with 70 wins?

Why did MJ have the best teams of his era and lebron didn't?

These are tough questions for you, but not for me (lebron simply isn't goat or anywhere near MJ)... :confusedshrug:
.

sdot_thadon

07-17-2019, 02:24 AM

The Warriors/Spurs are 5-2 versus Lebron in the Finals, and are the best of the era

Quite simply, lebron should've had the best teams of the era if he's goat, but he didn't..

So why didn't Lebron have the best teams of the era? Why were his teams winning 57 and 51 games while Kawhi/Curry were flirting with 70 wins?

Why did MJ have the best teams of his era and lebron didn't?

These are tough questions for you, but not for me (lebron simply isn't goat or anywhere near MJ)... :confusedshrug:
.
Still in denial.
Spurs have 3 rings
Warriors have 3 rings
Lebron has 3 rings

simple number matching for your simple brain no complex math or rounding required, because we all know how difficult that is for you.

3 = 3 = 3.:biggums:

3ball

07-17-2019, 10:46 AM

Still in denial.
Spurs have 3 rings
Warriors have 3 rings
Lebron has 3 rings

simple number matching for your simple brain no complex math or rounding required, because we all know how difficult that is for you.

3 = 3 = 3.:biggums:
The Warriors/Spurs are 5-2 versus Lebron in the Finals, and are the best of the era

Why did MJ have the best teams of his era and lebron didn't?

You're scared to answer this question

pauk

07-17-2019, 10:47 AM

So you are saying Bill Russell is the GOAT, got it.

3ball

07-17-2019, 11:01 AM

So you are saying Bill Russell is the GOAT, got it.

Maybe he's the goat of 2-pointer basketball, when the lack of spacing made team offense impossible, and a defender like Russell could control the game

But once the 3-point line was added and the game opened up offensively, a 1-way player/defender like Russell couldn't be the best player anymore..

Instead, the best offensive player and best 2-way player won the most rings and became goat of 3-pointer basketball, aka the all-time GOAT

Manny98

07-17-2019, 11:08 AM

MJ got a third of his rings in the shortened 3 point line era they shouldn't even count :roll:

DoctorP

07-17-2019, 11:26 AM

Bill Russell

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 11:33 AM

MJ got a third of his rings in the shortened 3 point line era they shouldn't even count :roll:

As I said, presenting yourself like a 10 year old.

He actually has 4 rings in the longer 3ball era, because the 98 season the league went back to the old line. The 3point line was introduced to increase scoring but was proven to have the opposite effect:

https://clutchpoints.com/brief-time-90s-3-point-line-shorter/

That’s right. From the beginning of the 1994-95 season through the end of the 1996-97 season, the 3-point line went from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket.

The change was made as a result of below average scoring games in the seasons leading up to the rule change. Though the average number of 3-point attempts per game increased by over 50 percent, the line was moved back to the original distance after the 1996-97 season because the change had actually lowered the average score of games. In the three seasons leading up to the new rule, teams averaged 105.6 points per game. In the three seasons with the shorter 3-point line, that average fell to 100.8.

Of course, I'm sure you knew all this given your vast knowledge of the game.

So if 2 of MJ's rings shouldn't count because of the shorter 3 point line.........then none of Russell's rings should count because of the complete absence of the 3point line? This is why people of average intelligence take at least a few seconds to think before they speak.

aau

07-17-2019, 01:39 PM

bulls

1984 - 27-55 missed ps
1985 - 38-44 L 1-3 MIL (-9, -7, -8)
1986 - 30-52 L 0-3 BOS (-19, -4, -18)
1987 - 40-42 L 0-3 BOS (-4, -9, -11)
1988 - 50-32 L 1-4 DET (-11, -22, -19, -7) . . . -59
1989 - 47-35 L 2-4 DET (-9, -6, -9, -9)
1990 - 55-27 L 3-4 DET (-9, -9, -14, -19)

?????

2004 - 35-47 missed ps
2005 - 42-40 missed ps
2006 - 50-32 L 3-4 DET (-27, -6, -2, -18)
2007 - 50-32 L 0-4 SAS (-9, -11, -3, -1)
2008 - 45-37 L 3-4 BOS (-4, -16, -7, -5)
2009 - 66-16 L 2-4 ORL (-1, -10, -2, -13)
2010 - 61-21 L 2-4 BOS (-18, -10, -22, -9) . . . -59

2011 - 58-24 L 2-4 DAL (-2, -3, -9, -10)
2014 - 54-28 L 1-4 SAS (-15, -19, -21, -17) . . . -72
2015 - 53-29 L 2-4 G S (-8, -21, -13, -8)
2017 - 51-31 L 1-4 G S (-22, -19, -5, -9) . . . -55
2018 - 50-32 L 0-4 G S (-10, -19, -8, -23) . . . -60

3ball

07-17-2019, 02:00 PM

[QUOTE=Phoenix]As I said, presenting yourself like a 10 year old.

He actually has 4 rings in the longer 3ball era, because the 98 season the league went back to the old line. The 3point line was introduced to increase scoring but was proven to have the opposite effect:

https://clutchpoints.com/brief-time-90s-3-point-line-shorter/

[I]That

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 02:15 PM

Excellent

And you know why scoring decreased despite the shorter 3-pt line?

Because it reduced spacing... Everyone played within 21 feet of the basket instead of 24, and games were more congested than ever

MJ deserves MORE props for winning 2 rings in the shortened line era

Ultimately I don't expect a retort to the point I made about Russell from Manny. If MJ's shorter 3point rings don't count, then by extension Russell's rings in a NON- 3point era shouldn't count. Do I actually believe that? Of course not, but that's the only logical conclusion to draw from the point he thought he was making. That's what happens when one tries to be clever and it swerves right around to bite them in the ass.

NBAGOAT

07-17-2019, 02:35 PM

Excellent

And you know why scoring decreased despite the shorter 3-pt line?

Because it reduced spacing... Everyone played within 21 feet of the basket instead of 24, and games were more congested than ever

MJ deserves MORE props for winning 2 rings in the shortened line era

mannys point was idiotic. mainly because the whole league is playing with the same line. You can make a slight adjustment for stats but that's a different discussion.

However your point is equally as idiotic. If Mj deserves more credit for congested spacing, then magic and bird deserve even more credit for their rings than 90 and after rings and russell deserves even more credit playing in the very congested 60s with no 3 pt line at all. Hell mikan's 5 rings must be like 10 based on spacing.

Hey Yo

07-17-2019, 03:25 PM

MJ's tight relationship with his dad was the foundation of his mental fortitude..

But it became a vulnerability when his dad was taken away - he didn't feel like playing anymore..

his stint in baseball was literal therapy, as it was always a dream of MJ's dad for MJ to play baseball... A biographer of MJ once described it - MJ was like "we're doin' this Pop", everyday on his way to baseball practice.. It was "classic mourning"

So ultimately, the murder of MJ's father prevented 8 straight rings and breaking Russell's record.. It's a testament to MJ's goatness that he had a chance to achieve the feat in the modern era - NO ONE thought 8 straight was possible in the modern era, but goat MJ could've done it... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
.
8 straight games of blowing out the Darko's and Potapenko's of the world in the 92 Olympics was considered grueling for MJ. The physicality and mental draining it caused was to tough for him.

"I don't like giving advice on things like that," said Jordan. "Everybody has their own individual goals. Some players may have goals of representing their country, and if that's the case, they should go. But they should know what they're getting into, a grueling five-week process that will eventually take its toll on you mentally and physically."

No chance he would have played in 8 straight let alone win 8 straight. He had to quit after 3 straight.

Hey Yo

07-17-2019, 03:32 PM

TheCorporation

07-17-2019, 03:37 PM

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 04:48 PM

So Stern and everyone else saw how offensively challenged most players were back then. What's that say about the league as a whole smack dab in the middle of the expansion era?

No. The League wanted a return to 80's style basketball scores( like we have now after opening up the perimeter and decreasing the offensive rebound shotclock from 24 to 14, among other things) after the 90's become a slowed down, more defensive-oriented grindfest ushered in by teams like the Badboy Pistons and Ewing Knicks, and they thought making 3's easier would boost scoring. It had the opposite effect.

You're comprehensively challenged or just trolling with your take. Which direction we going for this one?

Hey Yo

07-17-2019, 05:08 PM

No. The League wanted a return to 80's style basketball scores( like we have now after opening up the perimeter and decreasing the offensive rebound shotclock from 24 to 14, among other things) after the 90's become a slowed down, more defensive-oriented grindfest ushered in by teams like the Badboy Pistons and Ewing Knicks, and they thought making 3's easier would boost scoring. It had the opposite effect.

You're comprehensively challenged or just trolling with your take. Which direction we going for this one?
It was going to the grindfest due to teams and players being offensively challenged. NYK had no consistent scoring outside of Ewing. Nobody on those Pat Riley / early JVG days were a threat to score 25+ other than Ewing. Anthony Mason was a good mid-range shooter, but never consistent. Starks streaky as fvck, Oakley same as Mason and Harper was decent more consistent than Starks but not a guy you had to plan for. So the way to win was try to slow things down to a crawl (example 2015 Cavs Finals)

Pistons had scoring threats from starters to bench. Their key was slowing down the pace of the other team, not their own offense like the NYK did.

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 05:16 PM

It was going to the grindfest due to teams and players being offensively challenged. NYK had no consistent scoring outside of Ewing. Nobody on those Pat Riley / early JVG days were a threat to score 25+ other than Ewing. Anthony Mason was a good mid-range shooter, but never consistent. Starks streaky as fvck, Oakley same as Mason and Harper was decent more consistent than Starks but not a guy you had to plan for. So the way to win was try to slow things down to a crawl (example 2015 Cavs Finals)

Pistons had scoring threats from starters to bench. Their key was slowing down the pace of the other team, not their own offense like the NYK did.

Most of the 90's stars asides from Magic and Bird were carryovers from the 80's. Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Nique, Ewing, Drexler and so on. Meaning the core group of 90's greats were also major factors in the higher scoring 80's. So obviously the defensive environment of the 90's deflated team scoring numbers, not the individual players somehow becoming more offensively challenged in their own right. This shouldn't even have to be explained.

I mean shit, the league has been trying to increase scoring the last several years. This past year they introduced the offensive rebound 14 second rule. So what would you deduce from that? That today's players are too offensively challenged and therefore need more possessions to produce higher scoring? Sounds stupid right? Welll.....

Hey Yo

07-17-2019, 05:46 PM

Most of the 90's stars asides from Magic and Bird were carryovers from the 80's. Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Nique, Ewing, Drexler and so on. Meaning the core group of 90's greats were also major factors in the higher scoring 80's. So obviously the defensive environment of the 90's deflated team scoring numbers, not the individual players somehow becoming more offensively challenged in their own right. This shouldn't even have to be explained.

I mean shit, the league has been trying to increase scoring the last several years. This past year they introduced the offensive rebound 14 second rule. So what would you deduce from that? That today's players are too offensively challenged and therefore need more possessions to produce higher scoring? Sounds stupid right? Welll.....
I believe it was more about giving other teams a chance to comeback from deficits, more possessions than it has to do with the need to increase scoring.

There was plenty of offense to watch before the switch of the shot clock, compared to what fans were seeing in the 90's when "thee main objective" was to increase offense for than fans sake. Paying big bucks to see who could play the best defense wasn't in the best interest of fans or the league.

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 06:07 PM

I believe it was more about giving other teams a chance to comeback from deficits, more possessions than it has to do with the need to increase scoring.

There was plenty of offense to watch before the switch of the shot clock, compared to what fans were seeing in the 90's when "thee main objective" was to increase offense for than fans sake. Paying big bucks to see who could play the best defense wasn't in the best interest of fans or the league.

Teams being given a chance to come back late in games by decreasing their ability to reset for a full 24 seconds was a supplementary consideration. Reducing the shotclock off offensive rebounds was a mostly unobtrusive way to bloat possessions/pace. The net result was exactly what they wanted: a major scoring increase.

The 90's featured some of the greatest scorers in league history, same as the 80's. Scoring was increased 'for the fans' because the league didn't want Knicks-Pacers 70-68 wrestling matches in the mid 90's. You're putting it on a lack of scoring ability with the players themselves, which is wrong for reasons already stated, namely that the major 90's stars between 90-95 were also prominent 80's stars, and they were dropping numbers in an era(80's) that facilitated dropping numbers, like the current era.

Manny98

07-17-2019, 06:20 PM

And1AllDay

07-17-2019, 06:24 PM

guy

07-17-2019, 07:04 PM

Phoenix

07-17-2019, 08:24 PM

Russell didn't have the rules changed to give him an advantage like MJ :roll:

What rules were changed to give MJ an advantage? Before you say a shortened 3 point line, MJ won 4 of 6 titles at the longer distance. So you can remove that from your equation right off the top.

Russell played in an era of 10 teams where the champion received first round byes for several of his titles. You speak with quite the authority about an era that occurred before the sperm that produced you was swimming around in ya pop's n*tsack.

TheCorporation

07-17-2019, 10:08 PM

What rules were changed to give MJ an advantage? Before you say a shortened 3 point line, MJ won 4 of 6 titles at the longer distance. So you can remove that from your equation right off the top.

Russell played in an era of 10 teams where the champion received first round byes for several of his titles. You speak with quite the authority about an era that occurred before the sperm that produced you was swimming around in ya pop's n*tsack.

You really didnt know MJ creid to the refs about Detroit???

Phoenix

07-18-2019, 07:05 AM

You really didnt know MJ creid to the refs about Detroit???

Was Russell getting routinely clotheslined by anyone in his era as the only means of slowing him down? As if he was ever offensively good enough to warrant such attention in the first place.

Uncle Drew

10-15-2019, 03:12 AM

Why be part of the best team of an era, or in this case even all-time, when you can just beat them?

3ball

10-15-2019, 03:17 AM

and MJ has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger.

Lebron's 2nd option destroyed the Warriors' 1st option in 2016, so Lebron only overcame an actual talent deficit in 2007, which was less than and MJ overcame:

2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

and MJ has few (if any) notable upsets on his ledger.

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs like 89' MJ:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

It means MJ faced more competition

Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete EVENLY/adequately... But Lebron failed to compete adequately because he's 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

Also, MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format, so those teams can't be compared to the 3-star vs. 3 star format that Lebron played in.. Lebron's big 3's mean that he only faced talent deficits in 07', 15', 17' and 18' Finals (losing mostly via sweep or record amount).. the only time he overcame a talent deficit was the 07' ECF, and MJ overcame bigger ones then that (see response above)

There's not a different stratosphere that GOATs reach where just by being you, your team is automatically the best in the league.

Yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option (18 ppg), MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - MJ simply needed the least help... heck, Kareem needed 9 all-star teammates for his 6 rings compared to MJ's 1 all-star teammate.. and lebron needed 6 all-star teammates for 3 rings.. so no one is near MU

Lebron did, however, win 3 rings already, which is tied for the most during his era,

The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. :facepalm ... gtfo
..