Good ole' Chuck joined a Suns teams that had won 55, 54, 55, and 53 games..

[ClipperRevival]

..in the 4 seasons prior to him joining that team, with the same core. And they say MJ never played against a super team? :pimp:

MJ had to be GOAT tier to beat this team. Consider:

41.0 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, .508%, .400% 3PG (4.2 APG)

Any questions?

[ClipperRevival]

Same Suns team with KJ, Chambers, Majerle, Hornacek, etc that beat the Showtime Lakers 4-1 in 1990. This team ADDED Barkley and still lost to MJ.

Any questions?

[ClipperRevival]

What makes me LAUGH is good ole' Chuck go off on "super teams" in this era when he was part of 2 of team. The Suns and the Rockets (at least they tried with Hakeem & Pippen).

This dude should've WON the 1993 finals. They had the better team. But only because MJ took his game to a God tier level do people of today just ASSUME MJ had the better team. :oldlol:

[Sportal]

I have a question, Sir.

Who was the favourite in that series?

[Vino24]

can anyone guess op's favorite player?

[3ball]

KJ's Suns upset Magic's 1 seed Lakers in the 1990 ECSF

Then they got crushed by a Blazer team that was so stacked, they had Drexler averaging 18 ppg at 3rd option for the first 3 rounds...

But in the Finals, those Blazers were destroyed in 5 games by the Bad Boys... Ultimately, no one won more than 1 game off those Pistons, except MJ's bulls who beat them in 7 games, if not for Pip's migraine

Basically, the Suns, Blazers and Lakers all had significantly more talent than the 90' Bulls, but MJ and great teamwork carried the Bulls over the powerful Pistons.... again, if not for Pip's migraine...

People don't realize how much MJ carried and elevated those bulls in 89' and 90', when their weak cast played the Pistons tougher than anyone else and almost beat them.. it's a goat carry-job, superior to lebron in 07', when he couldn't get a single game off the Spurs.. :confusedshrug:

[NBAGOAT]

the win totals undersell how good phoenix was actually. Super talented from 1-5. The thing you're dismissing is barkley got there a little late. Hornacek was involved in the trade, chambers was already declining and a bench guy by 93 and kj was so injury prone. Comparing the kj barkley played with to 90 kj is like comparing current cp3 to clippers cp3

[ClipperRevival]

I have a question, Sir.

Who was the favourite in that series?

Bulls by a tad. But betting lines are a reflection of how much belief/confidence the public has. For instance, the ONLY reason Bron was a slight underdog heading into the 2012 finals against OKC is because he laid the biggest egg EVER for a superstar the year prior. If he had done what he was supposed to do, the Heat would've been favs. Don't blame MJ for taking care of business. :pimp:

[NBAGOAT]

KJ's Suns upset Magic's 1 seed Lakers in the 1990 ECSF

Then they got crushed by a Blazer team that was so stacked, they had Drexler averaging 18 ppg at 3rd option for the first 3 rounds...

But then the Blazers were demolished in the Finals by the Bad Boys... Ultimately, no one won more than 1 game off those Pistons, except MJ's bulls who beat them in 7 games, if not for Pip's migraine

Basically, the Suns, Blazers and Lakers all had significantly more talent than the 90' Bulls, but MJ and great teamwork carried the Bulls over the powerful Pistons, again, if not for Pip's migraine...

People don't realize how much MJ carried and elevated those bulls in 89' and 90', when their weak cast played the Pistons tougher than anyone else and almost beat them.. it's a goat carry-job, superior to lebron in 07', when he couldn't get a single game off the Spurs.. :confusedshrug:

barkley did carry hersey hawkins and role players who admittedly were good ones to a couple wins less than the bulls. There's a reason he got the most first place mvp votes even though he wasnt better than mj,

[Sportal]

Bulls by a tad. But betting lines are a reflection of how much belief/confidence the public has. For instance, the ONLY reason Bron was a slight underdog heading into the 2012 finals against OKC is because he laid the biggest egg EVER for a superstar the year prior. If he had done what he was supposed to do, the Heat would've been favs. Don't blame MJ for taking care of business. :pimp:

Alright, so I didn't know that. But you called the Suns a super team? Yet they weren't even the favourites... So what did that make the Bulls?

[MellowYellow]

chambers was washed, kj injuries were already starting to kick in and he wasn't the same, thunder dan was a role player and Hornacek was in the trade to get barkley:biggums:

[Vino24]

Alright, so I didn't know that. But you called the Suns a super team? Yet they weren't even the favourites... So what did that make the Bulls?
got 3ball saying he CARRIED those bulls team. Yet they beat super teams :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

chambers was washed, kj injuries were already starting to kick in and he wasn't the same, thunder dan and Hornacek was in the trade to get barkley:biggums:

thunder dan wasnt...

[ClipperRevival]

the win totals undersell how good phoenix was actually. Super talented from 1-5. The thing you're dismissing is barkley got there a little late. Hornacek was involved in the trade, chambers was already declining and a bench guy by 93 and kj was so injury prone. Comparing the kj barkley played with to 90 kj is like comparing current cp3 to clippers cp3

BS. The only guy who was on a noticeable decline was Chambers, due to age. KJ, Majerle and Hornacek were all entering their prime. Good ole' Chuck had more than enough firepower.

To say that 1992-93 KJ from the KJ of a few years prior was comparable to CP3 of the Clipper days to the CP3 of today is a joke. KJ was 26 in 1992-93 and played 78 games. LOL.

[3ball]

the win totals undersell how good phoenix was actually. Super talented through 1-5. The thing you're dismissing is barkley got there a little late. Hornacek was involved in the trade, chambers was already declining and a bench guy by 93 and kj was so injury prone. Comparing the kj barkley played with to 90 kj is like comparing current cp3 to clippers cp3
It was a 2-star league back then (the good teams had 2 stars)

MJ dominated this league - he averaged 41 ppg and FMVP...

Ultimately, he led everyone in the most important category by 14 ppg - that's better than Lebron leading lesser categories by tiny amounts and barely beating his teammates in scoring.. MJ's scoring represents a bigger carry-job

[sdot_thadon]

Same Suns team with KJ, Chambers, Majerle, Hornacek, etc that beat the Showtime Lakers 4-1 in 1990. This team ADDED Barkley and still lost to MJ.

Any questions?
besides this being a dumb thread just because you called the suns a super team......did you really also call the 90 Lakers showtime without Kareem? :wtf:

[ClipperRevival]

Alright, so I didn't know that. But you called the Suns a super team? Yet they weren't even the favourites... So what did that make the Bulls?

Like I said, when you lose, people think you are worse than you are. When you just win and always kick ass, people think you are better than you are.

[Vino24]

It was a 2-star league back then (the good teams had 2 stars)

MJ dominated this league - he averaged 41 ppg and FMVP...

Ultimately, he led everyone in the most important category by 14 ppg - that's better than Lebron leading lesser categories by tiny amounts and barely beating his teammates in scoring.. MJ's scoring represents a bigger carry-job
nope. without MJ, Pete Myers did just fine filling in with only a two game deficit to MJ Bulls

[SouBeachTalents]

Hornacek got traded for Barkley

[sdot_thadon]

Hornacek got traded for Barkley
all kinds of holes in an ill-conceived thread.

[MellowYellow]

thunder dan wasnt...

I edited it, Thunder dan was actually their 2nd best player in that series. But he missed a big 3 in that game 6 that woulda sealed it. I remember the infamous choke signal Coach Paul gave to him.

[ClipperRevival]

Hornacek got traded for Barkley

He was replaced with athletic wings in Ceballos and Dumas. Not to mention bigs in West & Oliver. Suns were stacked. Everyone at that time knew it.

[NBAGOAT]

He was replaced with athletic wings in Ceballos and Dumas. Not to mention bigs in West & Oliver. Suns were stacked. Everyone at that time knew it.

definitely along with the 90's magic who were even more so. However both are likely the two worst defensive teams among the great teams mj faced and that matters. It's why people still lean towards the sonics or jazz as the best bulls opponent. Also a reason a lot of people would even pick the knicks over the suns in a hypothetical matchup even though their offensive talent is poor, defense matters.

[Vino24]

Pippen that year had 100 more assists and rebounds than MJ. Thanks to Pippen's superior playmaking and intangibles it got them over the hump.

[sdot_thadon]

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

BS. The only guy who was on a noticeable decline was Chambers, due to age. KJ, Majerle and Hornacek were all entering their prime. Good ole' Chuck had more than enough firepower.

To say that 1992-93 KJ from the KJ of a few years prior was comparable to CP3 of the Clipper days to the CP3 of today is a joke. KJ was 26 in 1992-93 and played 78 games. LOL.

kj played 49 games try again. longevity is more impressive back then so 26 in 1992 is not 26 in 2019.

[Sportal]

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:

I also didn't know this either. Is this accurate??

[sdot_thadon]

kj played 49 games try again. longevity is more impressive back then so 26 in 1992 is not 26 in 2019.
again :oldlol:

[Vino24]

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:
and we are done here :eek: :eek: :eek:

[ClipperRevival]

definitely along with the 90's magic who were even more so. However both are likely the two worst defensive teams among the great teams mj faced and that matters. It's why people still lean towards the sonics or jazz as the best bulls opponent. Also a reason a lot of people would even pick the knicks over the suns in a hypothetical matchup even though their offensive talent is poor, defense matters.

:cheers:

Mid 90's Magic were stacked AF. Most people today don't know this. Shaq, Penny, Scott, Anderson, Grant, Shaw, etc. They just went up against 2 GOAT tier greats in MJ & Hakeem.

They win titles in many other eras.

[sdot_thadon]

I also didn't know this either. Is this accurate??
yessir

[Vino24]

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:
bringing this to the 3rd page since it has not been addressed yet...

[Sportal]

yessir

So this Suns "super team", didn't outrank them in any major personnel accolades... Why are these gentlemen calling this Suns team a super team...

[SouBeachTalents]

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:
Not to mention they struggled through every series they were in

Actually trailed the 8th seed Lakers 2-0 in the first round :lol Weren't that far off from getting swept

Beat the 5th seed Spurs in 6, didn't even outscore them in the series

Beat the Sonics in 7, outscored them by literally 1 point in the series

[sdot_thadon]

So this Suns "super team", didn't outrank them in any major personnel accolades... Why are these gentlemen calling this Suns team a super team...
involuntary need to boost Mj in any way possible when he's the absolute last person that needs lies to help his case.

[sdot_thadon]

Not to mention they struggled through every series they were in

Actually trailed the 8th seed Lakers 2-0 in the first round :lol Weren't that far off from getting swept

Beat the 5th seed Spurs in 6, didn't even outscore them in the series

Beat the Sonics in 7, outscored them by literally 0.1 points in the series
They hadn't seen anything yet the real trouble was being made chokers the next 2 seasons by Dream and co.

[ClipperRevival]

And LOL at Bron stans calling the late 90's Jazz the "Clippers of 2010's". Call me when that Clippers beat a team of Shaq, Kobe, Van Excel, Jones, Fox, Horry, etc. No wait. Sorry. I was wrong. Let me correct myself. DESTROYED these Lakers 4-1 and 4-0 in the 1997 and 1998 playoffs.

You guys really have to pick a side. Either these Jazz were a joke. If they were, then the ultra stacked Lakers were a joke too. Please pick.

[ClipperRevival]

Not to mention they struggled through every series they were in

Actually trailed the 8th seed Lakers 2-0 in the first round :lol Weren't that far off from getting swept

Beat the 5th seed Spurs in 6, didn't even outscore them in the series

Beat the Sonics in 7, outscored them by literally 1 point in the series

Sounds like the 2015-16 Warriors. :D

[NBAGOAT]

:cheers:

Mid 90's Magic were stacked AF. Most people today don't know this. Shaq, Penny, Scott, Anderson, Grant, Shaw, etc. They just went up against 2 GOAT tier greats in MJ & Hakeem.

They win titles in many other eras.

they have a late 80's celtics type of bench however where i'm not exaggerating when I say pretty much no one is even worth mentioning. You can namedrop shaw, i dont really care. That matters and why the celtics didnt win titles even though on paper they had bird leading a 5 all star lineup.

I'm really not sure there the best because of that and their defense even though the talent is there on paper. Scott/Anderson really exacerbated that bad bench putting up stinkers in their most challenging series. Their main positive is they did beat mj/pippen which is impressive even if mj was rusty.

[SouBeachTalents]

Sounds like the 2015-16 Warriors. :D
The Warriors almost got swept in the first round? News to me

[NBAGOAT]

Sounds like the 2015-16 Warriors. :D

the 16 warriors were beating playoff teams without curry... They struggled with one team OKC who on paper had one of the most talented duos of all time and had a top 20 healthy team all time based on srs. why arent they comparable with orlando?

[SouBeachTalents]

the 16 warriors were beating playoff teams without curry... They struggled with one team OKC who on paper had one of the most talented duos of all time and had a top 20 healthy team all time based on srs. why arent they comparable with orlando?
Exactly, they massacred the Rockets with a soon to be MVP with Curry missing nearly the entire series. What an asinine comparison :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

The Warriors almost got swept in the first round? News to me

No, but they were down to the brink 3-1 in the WCF.

The point here is, that 73-9 team wasn't as good as everyone claimed they were. They went 15-9 in the playoffs. A truly GOAT tier team rolls through the playoffs and destroys teams. Flawed team. This GSW team took the league by storm with their 3 point shooting before the league caught up.

[NBAGOAT]

i should add okc beat what some people thought before the loss was the best spurs team pop ever coached. I mean they added aldridge to their 15 core and got improvement from kawhi to offset duncan's decline. I can see where people were coming from.

[SouBeachTalents]

No, but they were down to the brink 3-1 in the WCF.

The point here is, that 73-9 team wasn't as good as everyone claimed they were. They went 15-9 in the playoffs. A truly GOAT tier team rolls through the playoffs and destroys teams. Flawed team. This GSW team took the league by storm with their 3 point shooting before the league caught up.
What does this have to do with the 90's Suns :biggums:

[sdot_thadon]

the 16 warriors were beating playoff teams without curry... They struggled with one team OKC who on paper had one of the most talented duos of all time and had a top 20 healthy team all time based on srs. why arent they comparable with orlando?
I thought the comparison was with the suns who struggled through the playoffs. And that wasn't a one shot deal. They choked a 3-1 lead to the rockets to lose to them for a 2nd straight year.

The Magic were a worse team than the 16 warrirors. like entire tier below. I always felt they were comparable to okc in 2012. Stars very young on a really good team. Spanked in the finals.

[ClipperRevival]

What does this have to do with the 90's Suns :biggums:

You were trying to prove that the Suns team were flawed because they struggled on the way to the finals. And I showed you the same example for the 73-9 Warriors.

[Sportal]

And LOL at Bron stans calling the late 90's Jazz the "Clippers of 2010's". Call me when that Clippers beat a team of Shaq, Kobe, Van Excel, Jones, Fox, Horry, etc. No wait. Sorry. I was wrong. Let me correct myself. DESTROYED these Lakers 4-1 and 4-0 in the 1997 and 1998 playoffs.

You guys really have to pick a side. Either these Jazz were a joke. If they were, then the ultra stacked Lakers were a joke too. Please pick.

Kobe was on the Lakers teams and doing work in 1997/1998??

I'm learning so much today.

[NBAGOAT]

No, but they were down to the brink 3-1 in the WCF.

The point here is, that 73-9 team wasn't as good as everyone claimed they were. They went 15-9 in the playoffs. A truly GOAT tier team rolls through the playoffs and destroys teams. Flawed team. This GSW team took the league by storm with their 3 point shooting before the league caught up.

they missed curry for the 2 losses to non all time great teams. the cavs won the title and okc i've shown was legit. Yes people were too quick to crown them the goat team but there's no shame in losing to other great teams.

[SouBeachTalents]

You were trying to prove that the Suns team were flawed because they struggled on the way to the finals. And I showed you the same example for the 73-9 Warriors.
You didn't, at all. The Warriors went 6-2 with Curry either barely playing or missing entire games. They struggled in one series (as opposed to 3) against a team that was clearly better than any the Suns faced on their way to the Finals

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe was on the Lakers teams and doing work in 1997/1998??

I'm learning so much today.

2nd and 3rd year Kobe, still coming along. But can't ignore Shaq along with VETERANS in Jones, Van Excel, Fox, Horry, & Shaw.

Get real son. That Laker team was staked as fu*k. Everyone knew it. You had to be a darn good team to beat that team in a 7 game series. Utah destroyed these boys in 2 straight playoffs 4-1 and 4-0. Everyone in the world just ASSUMED the Lakers would meet the Bulls in the finals in 1996-97.

[Sportal]

2nd and 3rd year Kobe, still coming along. But can't ignore Shaq along with VETERANS in Jones, Van Excel, Fox, Horry, & Shaw.

Get real son. That Laker team was staked as fu*k. Everyone knew it. You had to be a darn good team to beat that team in a 7 game series. Utah destroyed these boys in 2 straight playoffs 4-1 and 4-0. Everyone in the world just ASSUMED the Lakers would meet the Bulls in the finals in 1996-97.

Are you sure though? You suggested Kobe was doing work in 97/98... How can I trust anything you say now...

[SouBeachTalents]

2nd and 3rd year Kobe, still coming along. But can't ignore Shaq along with VETERANS in Jones, Van Excel, Fox, Horry, & Shaw.

Get real son. That Laker team was staked as fu*k. Everyone knew it. You had to be a darn good team to beat that team in a 7 game series. Utah destroyed these boys in 2 straight playoffs 4-1 and 4-0. Everyone in the world just ASSUMED the Lakers would meet the Bulls in the finals in 1996-97.
Veterans? Jones & Van Exel were in their 3rd and 4th years, they were 25 in 1997 :oldlol: Horry had championship experience sure, but he was only 26 at the time too. And Shaw wasn't on the team altogether

[tpols]

yes they were super stacked.

barkley was a huge choke artist.

nobody talks about it but barkley was one of the first ever to give up the 3-1.

and he consistently underachieved in the playoffs.

[NBAGOAT]

if op thinks van exel, eddie, young kobe is stacked then what the hell do you even call philly the past 2 years. either butler, simmons, harris, redick or horford, simmons, harris, richardson :bowdown:

[sdot_thadon]

ClipperRevival caught with his pants down on every page of the thread so far. Exposed dont do it justice.

[3ball]

Kobe was on the Lakers teams and doing work in 1997/1998??

I'm learning so much today.
Kobe played MJ to a standstill in a regular season matchup and had a coming out party in the all-star game, among other such performance

Started the all-star game because he was already the most exciting 2-guard in the West

So yeah, putting in work

[ClipperRevival]

Veterans? Jones & Van Exel were in their 3rd and 4th years, they were 25 in 1997 :oldlol: Horry had championship experience sure, but he was only 26 at the time too. And Shaw wasn't on the team altogether

You got me with Shaw. That's why I named him last. I am going right off the dome in these posts.

But Lakers had 4 All-Stars in 1997-98.

[ClipperRevival]

if op thinks van exel, eddie, young kobe is stacked then what the hell do you even call philly the past 2 years. either butler, simmons, harris, redick or horford, simmons, harris, richardson :bowdown:

Embiid isn't HALF the player Shaq was from 1996-1998. Yeah, I said HALF. You have to judge your team by your best player. Shaq was GOAT tier. Embiid is a front running bi*ch that just dances when his teams are winning but can't do sh*t when his teams are down.

[3ball]

if op thinks van exel, eddie, young kobe is stacked then what the hell do you even call philly the past 2 years. either butler, simmons, harris, redick or horford, simmons, harris, richardson :bowdown:
Shaq + 3 athletic, all-star guards

plus Horry, Fox and other vets

= 61-wins and favorite status?



Yeah, stacked

[SouBeachTalents]

You got me with Shaw. That's why I named him last. I am going right off the dome in these posts.

But Lakers had 4 All-Stars in 1997-98.
So did the '06 Pistons, '11 Celtics & '15 Hawks, who like the Lakers all failed to even reach the Finals

[ClipperRevival]

Shaq + 3 athletic, all-star guards

plus Horry, Fox and other vets

= 61-wins and favorite status?



Yeah, stacked

Shaq with 3 additional all-stars and add in Fish & Campbell. That is WHY Del Harris was fired. He was viewed as one of the worst coaches ever because everyone knew the Lakers had the most talent on paper but couldn't even beat an old ass Jazz team. LOL.

[NBAGOAT]

Embiid isn't HALF the player Shaq was from 1996-1998. Yeah, I said HALF. You have to judge your team by your best player. Shaq was GOAT tier. Embiid is a front running bi*ch that just dances when his teams are winning but can't do sh*t when his teams are down.

Sure I won

[ClipperRevival]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Sure I won

[NBAGOAT]

And that's the year good ole' Chuck faced MJ in the finals. He even had HCA.

My point is this. Use the same example I used with a team winning the amount of games the Suns did with relatively the same core 4 seasons prior and ADD in a GOAT tier talent like Chuck. How is that NOT a superteam?

Relatively same core is your problem. Are the warriors with the “relatively same core” from a title team adding dangelo a super team. Ofc not because the first part just isn’t true

[Sportal]

Kobe played MJ to a standstill in a regular season matchup and had a coming out party in the all-star game, among other such performance

Started the all-star game because he was already the most exciting 2-guard in the West

So yeah, putting in work

Started which All-Star game? Surely he doesn't make AS in 97/98 like this guy claims he was doing work in... What, with 15ppg??

[Round Mound]

The Suns where a great offensive team but the Bulls where both great offensively and defensively. BTW KJ only played 49 games that season. Jordan was a great defender but so where Pippen and Grant.

[iamgine]

Suns lost 3 starters, one of them their top scorer. So it's really not the same team that won those games.

[3ball]

Started which All-Star game? Surely he doesn't make AS in 97/98 like this guy claims he was doing work in... What, with 15ppg??
It's common knowledge that del harris should've started and featured Kobe all year

Instead, Kobe was buried on the bench - but when he got in the game, hold on to your seats - everyone knew he was the 2nd best show in the league.. the definition of razzle dazzle

That's why he made the all-star game - he was simply one of the best guards in the league, but del harris was too old school to play him.. the per 100 possession stats show that 98' Kobe was much better than rookie lebron, and should've been featured like Bron was

[NBAGOAT]

I thought the comparison was with the suns who struggled through the playoffs. And that wasn't a one shot deal. They choked a 3-1 lead to the rockets to lose to them for a 2nd straight year.

The Magic were a worse team than the 16 warrirors. like entire tier below. I always felt they were comparable to okc in 2012. Stars very young on a really good team. Spanked in the finals.

Yea I meant okc to Orlando, it seemed unclear. I

[sdot_thadon]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Yea I meant okc to Orlando, it seemed unclear. I

[NBAGOAT]

I agree for the most part. I feel like the Clips had terrible luck at the time they should have been able to squeeze at least a conference finals appearance in. The Jazz were a really good team too, but they weren't ever percieved as some juggernaut either. The part about the suns choking doesn't really matter to me, just a bit of background on what happend to the "super team" suns over those 3 years. Those sonics were the city of Houston's nightmare during that era, we could not get by them. They just had our number. And yeah I'd take Cp3 over Payton prime for prime.

oh I think i was a little unclear then. I meant the clips choking vs the rockets in 2015. You're right, the suns did too :oldlol:. Agree on the jazz but once they traded malone for hornacek, they were a different team imo and russell was a decent 4th contributor for the finals teams.

[AussieSteve]

..in the 4 seasons prior to him joining that team, with the same core. And they say MJ never played against a super team? :pimp:

MJ had to be GOAT tier to beat this team. Consider:

41.0 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, .508%, .400% 3PG (4.2 APG)

Any questions?

You do realize that the 92 suns traded an AS who was also their top scorer as part of the Barkley deal.

You do realize that KJ missed half the season in 93 and was horrid in th 93 finals.

You do realize that chambers, who averaged 25ppg c.1990, was a bench player by 93.

The 92 suns won 53 games and got spanked in the 2nd round, lost a 20ppg AS, lost an All NBA PG for half the season, had their former AS forward decline to the point of being a bench player AND added barkley. And then won 62 games and took the bulls to within a couple seconds of a home game 7.

I'm sure you also know that Barkley was injured on his shooting elbow in the finals and couldn't hit anything outside the paint for most of the series.

The suns were great, probably 42-45 win team without Barkley. But the bulls WERE a 55 win team without MJ. Enough said.

[fourkicks44]

You do realize that the 92 suns traded an AS who was also their top scorer as part of the Barkley deal.

You do realize that KJ missed half the season in 93 and was horrid in th 93 finals.

You do realize that chambers, who averaged 25ppg c.1990, was a bench player by 93.

The 92 suns won 53 games and got spanked in the 2nd round, lost a 20ppg AS, lost an All NBA PG for half the season, had their former AS forward decline to the point of being a bench player AND added barkley. And then won 62 games and took the bulls to within a couple seconds of a home game 7.

I'm sure you also know that Barkley was injured on his shooting elbow in the finals and couldn't hit anything outside the paint for most of the series.

The suns were great, probably 42-45 win team without Barkley. But the bulls WERE a 55 win team without MJ. Enough said.



Don't remind me AussieSteve.


You gonna make me cry.


Just mentioning his name could start a war on here too, btw. Not that you don't know that.

[Manny98]

Hornacek got traded for Barkley

That suns team had

1 all nba player , bulls had 2

1 all d 2nd team, bulls had 2 1st team AND 1 2nd team selection.

2 allstars while the bulls had 2 allstars.

Super team doe.:oldlol:

You do realize that the 92 suns traded an AS who was also their top scorer as part of the Barkley deal.

You do realize that KJ missed half the season in 93 and was horrid in th 93 finals.

You do realize that chambers, who averaged 25ppg c.1990, was a bench player by 93.

The 92 suns won 53 games and got spanked in the 2nd round, lost a 20ppg AS, lost an All NBA PG for half the season, had their former AS forward decline to the point of being a bench player AND added barkley. And then won 62 games and took the bulls to within a couple seconds of a home game 7.

I'm sure you also know that Barkley was injured on his shooting elbow in the finals and couldn't hit anything outside the paint for most of the series.

The suns were great, probably 42-45 win team without Barkley. But the bulls WERE a 55 win team without MJ. Enough said.


Shut it Down :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

It was a 2-star league back then (the good teams had 2 stars)

MJ dominated this league - he averaged 41 ppg and FMVP...

Ultimately, he led everyone in the most important category by 14 ppg - that's better than Lebron leading lesser categories by tiny amounts and barely beating his teammates in scoring.. MJ's scoring represents a bigger carry-job
On 33FGA and took 13 more FGA thn Pippen......of course he's going to lead the team in points, supergenius.

LOL @ Horace Grant getting less than 9 FGA a game that Finals. No wonder he wanted the fvck out of Chicago. Got a chance to shine the following year after MJ quit and he made his first and only All-star appearance.

[Vino24]

On 33FGA and took 13 more FGA thn Pippen......of course he's going to lead the team in points, supergenius.

LOL @ Horace Grant getting less than 9 FGA a game that Finals. No wonder he wanted the fvck out of Chicago. Got a chance to shine the following year after MJ quit and he made his first and only All-star appearance.
Boom! MJ reduces Grant to 9fga per game lmao

[Hey Yo]

He was replaced with athletic wings in Ceballos and Dumas. Not to mention bigs in West &Oliver. Suns were stacked. Everyone at that time knew it.
:roll: <<<<< Miller rolling down the court.

Oliver Miller was a 6-9 undersized, overweight 300 pound rookie. He and West combined to avg. less than 39mins a game, 10pts and 8 boards.

[guy]

On 33FGA and took 13 more FGA thn Pippen......of course he's going to lead the team in points, supergenius.

LOL @ Horace Grant getting less than 9 FGA a game that Finals. No wonder he wanted the fvck out of Chicago. Got a chance to shine the following year after MJ quit and he made his first and only All-star appearance.

You do realize being able to create shots for yourself is a skill right? Efficiency doesn

[GOBB]

Barkley was traded to the suns. Where did he join?

[Vino24]

Barkley was traded to the suns. Where did he join?
And we are done here

[Mr Feeny]

Same Suns team with KJ, Chambers, Majerle, Hornacek, etc that beat the Showtime Lakers 4-1 in 1990. This team ADDED Barkley and still lost to MJ.

Any questions?

Who cares? They hadn't really done anything prior to Barkley. Winning 1 series doesn't make you an accomplished team. Until Charles joined them, they weren't ever going to get to a final. He catapulted them to the next level.

[Mr Feeny]

What makes me LAUGH is good ole' Chuck go off on "super teams" in this era when he was part of 2 of team. The Suns and the Rockets (at least they tried with Hakeem & Pippen).

This dude should've WON the 1993 finals. They had the better team. But only because MJ took his game to a God tier level do people of today just ASSUME MJ had the better team. :oldlol:

Jordan is the greatest ever so I'm not sure there's any shame in losing to him. NOBODY could stop Jordan back then. I remember Barkley saying that the 1 player he didn't have a problem losing to was Jordan. Agree with the rest though. That Suns team should have beaten Chicago. And they definitely thought they would.

[GOBB]

yes they were super stacked.

barkley was a huge choke artist.

nobody talks about it but barkley was one of the first ever to give up the 3-1.

and he consistently underachieved in the playoffs.

Spoken like someone who never watched basketball when Barkley played. As well as someone who didn

[Replay32]

Cedric Ceballos didn't play in the finals. He would of made a difference IMO. Probably would of went 7 and the Suns would of had a better chance of winning the championship.

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Spoken like someone who never watched basketball when Barkley played. As well as someone who didn

[Mr Feeny]

Cedric Ceballos didn't play in the finals. He would of made a difference IMO. Probably would of went 7 and the Suns would of had a better chance of winning the championship.

Maybe and maybe not. It's still Jordan on the other end. And he simply didn't lose finals.

[TheCorporation]

can anyone guess op's favorite player?

Well it's 3ball, so...

Jordan

[AussieSteve]

People who under rate Barkley as a playoff performer, or who say he under achieved in the playoffs don't know what they're talking about.

Watch some tape of chuck in the 89 1st round. He balled out, but was playing with scrubs against a far superior team.

Go and watch a couple of games from the bulls series in 90 and 91. There were games when he had 35 & 20 but the rest of his team shot 25% from the field and they got blown out.

Watch some games from his 93 finals run against the spurs and the sonics. He had to pull out some monster games to reach those finals.

In 94 he was having pre-game and half time pain killing injections during the rockets series. He was properly injured and should not have been playing.

Also look at the stats. He was ATG in the playoffs. As well as the 25ppg, he led all players over the course of his career in BOTH offensive AND defensive boards per game in the PO. GOAT tier rebounder.

Put your agendas aside and respect a legend of the game.

[GOBB]

People who under rate Barkley as a playoff performer, or who say he under achieved in the playoffs don't know what they're talking about.

Watch some tape of chuck in the 89 1st round. He balled out, but was playing with scrubs against a far superior team.

Go and watch a couple of games from the bulls series in 90 and 91. There were games when he had 35 & 20 but the rest of his team shot 25% from the field and they got blown out.

Watch some games from his 93 finals run against the spurs and the sonics. He had to pull out some monster games to reach those finals.

In 94 he was having pre-game and half time pain killing injections during the rockets series. He was properly injured and should not have been playing.

Also look at the stats. He was ATG in the playoffs. As well as the 25ppg, he led all players over the course of his career in BOTH offensive AND defensive boards per game in the PO. GOAT tier rebounder.

Put your agendas aside and respect a legend of the game.


He has no rings and MJ called him a loser. Therefore underachiever rofflecopter

[Phoenix]

LOL @ Horace Grant getting less than 9 FGA a game that Finals. No wonder he wanted the fvck out of Chicago. Got a chance to shine the following year after MJ quit and he made his first and only All-star appearance.

Shine as in averaging a whopping 1.7 more shots and 1.9 points more in 94 than in 93? Holy fukk was he being held back!

[ClipperRevival]

Well it's 3ball, so...

Jordan

:oldlol:

I've been seeing this a few times of late. You Bron fans have accused me of being SamuriSwich aka "Coach" and now 3ball. I guess since we are all MJ fans and probably middle aged men, we sound kind of similar. But i'm not either of them.

I don't have any alts babyboi. Got you on a leash!

[ClipperRevival]

People who under rate Barkley as a playoff performer, or who say he under achieved in the playoffs don't know what they're talking about.

Watch some tape of chuck in the 89 1st round. He balled out, but was playing with scrubs against a far superior team.

Go and watch a couple of games from the bulls series in 90 and 91. There were games when he had 35 & 20 but the rest of his team shot 25% from the field and they got blown out.

Watch some games from his 93 finals run against the spurs and the sonics. He had to pull out some monster games to reach those finals.

In 94 he was having pre-game and half time pain killing injections during the rockets series. He was properly injured and should not have been playing.

Also look at the stats. He was ATG in the playoffs. As well as the 25ppg, he led all players over the course of his career in BOTH offensive AND defensive boards per game in the PO. GOAT tier rebounder.

Put your agendas aside and respect a legend of the game.

Chuck was amazing no doubt but he only played one side of the ball. That means he didn't maximize his own talents or his team's potential talents. Your leader sets the example and if he doesn't give a sh*t about D, it filters down to everyone else. I can't respect any great who doesn't go hard on D. I just can't.

You could throw all the advanced offensive metrics at me about how efficient he was at scoring, I could care less.

[Sportal]

:oldlol:

I've been seeing this a few times of late. You Bron fans have accused me of being SamuriSwich aka "Coach" and now 3ball. I guess since we are all MJ fans and probably middle aged men, we sound kind of similar. But i'm not either of them.

I don't have any alts babyboi. Got you on a leash!

Don't know any that talk like you do... Lol.

[NBAGOAT]

Chuck was amazing no doubt but he only played one side of the ball. That means he didn't maximize his own talents or his team's potential talents. Your leader sets the example and if he doesn't give a sh*t about D, it filters down to everyone else. I can't respect any great who doesn't go hard on D. I just can't.

You could throw all the advanced offensive metrics at me about how efficient he was at scoring, I could care less.

this sounds all good but do you really not respect magic or shaq for most of their careers? They may not be as bad as barkley but they're not two way players most years of their careers

[305Baller]

Still didnt win.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

JORDAN!

[ClipperRevival]

this sounds all good but do you really not respect magic or shaq for most of their careers? They may not be as bad as barkley but they're not two way players most years of their careers

Well, there is a difference between sucking on D and still trying (Magic) and just sucking on D because you aren't trying (Chuck). Magic always tried but just lacked the physical talent.

Shaq turned it up during that 3 peat stretch with Kobe getting on his ass all the time. But that's also why i don't truly respect Shaq either. I respect his God given physical gifts but not his mentality. He didn't always bring it.

[And1AllDay]

Well it's 3ball, so...

Jordan

:oldlol: :roll: :roll:

[jstern]

Same Suns team with KJ, Chambers, Majerle, Hornacek, etc that beat the Showtime Lakers 4-1 in 1990. This team ADDED Barkley and still lost to MJ.

Any questions?

So without Barkley they beat the Showtime Lakers. Impressive.