Have any of you watch Larry Bird play? Not that impressive...

[iamgine]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

[DocSlam]

He played with Hall of Fame guys in the front court. They need their touches. Carrying the load alone is not smart. You need a great team to win.

[Bawkish]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

you just watched too much Lebron ball

he's not ball dominant like Magic or Isiah Thomas or MJ for that matter (in the 80s)

[bullettooth]

He played with Hall of Fame guys in the front court. They need their touches. Carrying the load alone is not smart. You need a great team to win.

This. Otherwise you end up 3*/9.

[Reggie43]

Having the ability to play offball and letting his teammates work and get their touches is probably one of the best facets of his game. To me thats what separates him from his peers, having the ability to impact the game without the ball in his hands.

[jstern]

Sometimes you just have to let your guys do their thing. That's a very effective tool. Be more of a decoy, off the ball player thus allowing your teammates to flourish when they're feeling it. Compared to no type of flow ever developing because the star player always needs the ball in their hands and dribble, dribble in every possession.

One style promotes dynasty level team development. The other style gets you more stats, better numbers on paper, but at the expense of the rest of the players in your team not reaching their full potential. And at the expense of your team not reaching dynasty level, even with multiple superstars in the team.

[TheMan]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.
Typical LeBron Stan take...he played with very capable teammates, no need to hog the ball like LeHog.

[Round Mound]

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

[Psileas]

That's pre-90's basketball in general. It wasn't required that the star player had the ball in his hands all the time and it wasn't a given that he'd be getting all the shots he wanted if he was hot. There were games in which Bird would go for 40+ on amazing shooting and the Celtics would still have lots of plays run without him.

[RealSkipBayless]

Typical LeBron Stan take...he played with very capable teammates, no need to hog the ball like LeHog.
Why are you into trannies?

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=RealSkipBayless]Why are you into trannies?
Da fukk are you talking about, numbnuts?

Fukk outta here Simon, you wouldn't know a tranny from a real female anyways you neckbearded virgin fggot...:oldlol:

[Manny98]

This. Otherwise you end up 3*/9.
:rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

Yes, and then consider his peak MVP numbers were something like 28/10/7. Volume stats achieved through not dominating the ball is a foreign concept to fans coming up on modern perimeter players.

[Bawkish]

if im not mistaken, he's basically the 1st player to register the 50/40/90

[superduper]

Apparently you suck if you're playing a smart brand of basketball instead of monopolizing the ball on every single offensive possession. This is what we call the Bran era and it is a very shameful era indeed.

[ronniec]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

Probably you don't know there was occasion that Bird had the chance to get a triple double but opted to sit down and let his teammates play.

He had a huge ego but never self centered.

[stalkerforlife]

Watched OP post.

Wasn't impressed.

[Manny98]

I was going to say something but i don't want to rile up the oldhead Bird stans here so forget it :lol

[jayfan]

you just watched too much Lebron ball

he's not ball dominant like Magic or Isiah Thomas or MJ for that matter (in the 80s)

Isiah wasn't ball dominant. Just saying.



.

[90sgoat]

I'll let everyone in on a secret.

Even the 72 win Bulls frequently started the game running plays for Luc Longley or Toni Kukoc. MJ often didn't take more than a shot or two in the first 5 minutes.

It's almost as if getting everyone involved for real is good for team morale.

[superduper]

I'll let everyone in on a secret.

Even the 72 win Bulls frequently started the game running plays for Luc Longley or Toni Kukoc. MJ often didn't take more than a shot or two in the first 5 minutes.

It's almost as if getting everyone involved for real is good for team morale.

Nope sorry one guy padding his individual stats in a 5v5 team game is more important than anything. Empty stats in Ls are all we live for.

$tats :rockon:

[EllEffEll]

Saw him countless times on TV, and saw him play in person once. The only things he didn't do that night was sell popcorn and clean the latrines.

Just naming the team he played for tinges the air with fecal matter for me, but I would be liar if I didn't say he was one of the greatest all-around players EVER. I don't think we'll ever see anyone else like him and for me, that's not a good thing.

Everybody's criteria for greatness is unique.

[tpols]

what a shallow take...

spoken like somebody who only watches the ball and not the other 99% of action.

[Marchesk]

Harden and Lebron-ball are ruining the game for the younger generation. They don't even know what good basketball looks like anymore.

[LAL]

Yes, and then consider his peak MVP numbers were something like 28/10/7. Volume stats achieved through not dominating the ball is a foreign concept to fans coming up on modern perimeter players.
underrated post

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Not as high on Bird as others are but it's not exactly a bad thing to not always have the ball in your hand

When you think about it, that's actually..... kind of a good thing

Only one ball, Bird was likely excellent at maximizing touches given how good his teams were. The dilemma: was his team good because they were stacked, were they good because Bird allowed them to maximize their ability, or a combo of both

The opposite of Bronball :lol

[3ball]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.
If the end result is is 30 ppg for Bird or Lebron, why not get those points while teammates have maximum time to produce so the TEAM maximizes production, rather than get those points by reducing teammates' hold-time so the team produces below capacity???

Bird's method won more and resulted in a better team with little if any statistical drop-off compared to lebron, at least in bird's prime.

Letting teammates run the show and only stepping in when needed is the optimal way for any star to get their 30 points... :confusedshrug: ... Teammates need maximum time to move the ball, make mistakes, and get in a rhythm... The star can get his anytime, so they only step in when needed to boost momentum or get through a lull..

Btw, you'd feel the same way watching MJ in 85', 87', 88', and 91-98, when he played largely off-ball and went many possessions without touching the rock... MJ's naturally off-ball style is what allowed Phil to think the triangle would work with the bulls.. otoh, no coach has been able to design a ball movement system around lebron, because his inferior skillset dominates the ball

[Thorpesaurous]

There was far more of this type of play pre expansion in 91-92 or whatever year that was the Hornets, Heat, etc showed up (I think they came in two waves).

I actually think this is one of the things that has affected our international problems as time went on. Sure the international scene improved leaps and bounds, but we went through a stretch where to me, it felt like a major weakness of our player development was not knowing how to play with other people. I believe that's a skill. In fact I think it's one of the most underrated aspects about Bird, of the truly great great elite level guys, I think he's the easiest one to pair with a second one. (That's a list I define as guys who've won multiple titles and multiple MVPs, so Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron, Curry. It's a list that I know is has some flaws. It includes guys that like less then other guys, but to me at some point guys need to be judged by what they've done, and it's a weirdly specific and short list, and to me being in the next tier isn't some great slight).

[90sgoat]

There was far more of this type of play pre expansion in 91-92 or whatever year that was the Hornets, Heat, etc showed up (I think they came in two waves).

I actually think this is one of the things that has affected our international problems as time went on. Sure the international scene improved leaps and bounds, but we went through a stretch where to me, it felt like a major weakness of our player development was not knowing how to play with other people.

Good point.

See the last US team with Lowry, Cousins, PG etc. They had simply no idea of what to run except high PnR.

[bullettooth]

:rolleyes:

Doesn't it suck to think a guy that's lost 6 times in the finals is the GOAT?

[Thorpesaurous]

Good point.

See the last US team with Lowry, Cousins, PG etc. They had simply no idea of what to run except high PnR.


Yeah, and I think it's started to come back around since the super team era started to happen. Not for everybody, but they guys who've gone to join these types of teams seem to have developed more instinct. But the number of guys still leaving for "their own team", or "more touches", to me is still an indicator.

I don't think it's entirely the fault of the players either. When the rosters started to thin, the fact was that we went through a stretch where if so and so didn't score a ton on any given night, the team had no chance, so that's what it was.

I also think money has something to do with it too. Putting together rosters now seem to just require more cheap young talent, and since the young has gotten younger, there are just fewer guys on the roster who seem to know how to play, so they're coached into those micro roles.

We did kind of see Toronto do it this year. There's a lot of similarities between Gasol and Celtics Bill Walton. But how many teams are filling that Gasol role he had with some younger cheaper guy? They can sell the fact that if you were scouting Gasol vs. some younger big, a cheap, some kid on the come who's more athletic, but at the end of the day those guys have come up being the best player on their teams forever, and wind up having no idea how to play outside that role. The AAU scene doesn't help either with this development. If you're good enough to be on a real travel team, if there's someone on your team better than you, it's not hard to find another team where you can be the man. It's kind of destroyed fit. And now you're seeing it in actual High Schools. Kids transfer two or three times over four years of high school.

[And1AllDay]

Why are you into trannies?
:oldlol: :roll:
well the dudes name is "the man" :oldlol:

[Meticode]

Must be a troll post. Posted it three days ago, never came back and defended anything. Probably just sitting back, stalking the posted replies touching himself.

[Duderonomy]

Kareem disagrees OP. Bird was a smart player, who wasn't afraid to take big shoots and had competitive fire.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbVJAp7Mg1U

[72-10]

Bird was a 3 who could shoot the ball better than any 2 in the world, even Michael Jordan. He could pass about as well as the best 1 in the world, Magic Johnson. And he could rebound about as well as the best 4 in the world, Charles Barkley.

[warriorfan]

Must be a troll post. Posted it three days ago, never came back and defended anything. Probably just sitting back, stalking the posted replies touching himself.

This. I almost responded to it before it sunk in.

[tontoz]

The real story here is that OP watched one game and thinks he has a clue. :facepalm

[bullettooth]

The real story here is that OP watched one game and thinks he has a clue. :facepalm

:lol

[superduper]

Imagine thinking not monopolizing every single offensive possession is a bad thing now :facepalm :facepalm

Bran ball has literally ruined basketball.

[baudkarma]

Bird played in 164 playoff games. OP watched one of them, and now is an expert on Bird and the entire Celtics team from that era.

Color me impressed.

[Manny98]

How do you have Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton and Robert Parish by your side your entire career and only have 3 championships to show?

Bird is overrated af even KD is better than him

[tontoz]

How do you have Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton and Robert Parish by your side your entire career and only have 3 championships to show?




Because they had to get through Dr J, Barkley and Moses in Philly...... then the Bad Boy Pistons.

In the finals they had to deal with Magic, Kareem and Worthy.

[colts19]

How do you have Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton and Robert Parish by your side your entire career and only have 3 championships to show?

Bird is overrated af even KD is better than him

Bill Walton was healthy one year out of the 2 years he played on the celtics. Guess what the won the title that year.

[Bosnian Sajo]

How do you have Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton and Robert Parish by your side your entire career and only have 3 championships to show?

Bird is overrated af even KD is better than him


Uhm....Bill Walton played 90 total games for the Boston Celtics.

[superduper]

How do you have Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton and Robert Parish by your side your entire career and only have 3 championships to show?

Bird is overrated af even KD is better than him

So why did they have 29 wins the season before Bird and 61 wins in Bird's rookie season?

Retardation knows no limits :facepalm

[superduper]

Because they had to get through Dr J, Barkley and Moses in Philly...... then the Bad Boy Pistons.

In the finals they had to deal with Magic, Kareem and Worthy.

Bro he's only used to competition like Lowry/Teague/Reggie Jackson/Kemba/Roy Hibbert every single year.

[Phoenix]

Uhm....Bill Walton played 90 total games for the Boston Celtics.

Manny's a plant. The last 4 posts quoting his dumb ass comment will inspire another 3 pages of comments. Mission accomplished as far as Jeff is concerned.

[90sgoat]

Yeah, and I think it's started to come back around since the super team era started to happen. Not for everybody, but they guys who've gone to join these types of teams seem to have developed more instinct. But the number of guys still leaving for "their own team", or "more touches", to me is still an indicator.

I don't think it's entirely the fault of the players either. When the rosters started to thin, the fact was that we went through a stretch where if so and so didn't score a ton on any given night, the team had no chance, so that's what it was.

I also think money has something to do with it too. Putting together rosters now seem to just require more cheap young talent, and since the young has gotten younger, there are just fewer guys on the roster who seem to know how to play, so they're coached into those micro roles.

We did kind of see Toronto do it this year. There's a lot of similarities between Gasol and Celtics Bill Walton. But how many teams are filling that Gasol role he had with some younger cheaper guy? They can sell the fact that if you were scouting Gasol vs. some younger big, a cheap, some kid on the come who's more athletic, but at the end of the day those guys have come up being the best player on their teams forever, and wind up having no idea how to play outside that role. The AAU scene doesn't help either with this development. If you're good enough to be on a real travel team, if there's someone on your team better than you, it's not hard to find another team where you can be the man. It's kind of destroyed fit. And now you're seeing it in actual High Schools. Kids transfer two or three times over four years of high school.

:cheers:

[Bosnian Sajo]

Manny's a plant. The last 4 posts quoting his dumb ass comment will inspire another 3 pages of comments. Mission accomplished as far as Jeff is concerned.

Manny, RRR, all these dudes lmao.



It's nice that their group is getting smaller and smaller, though. The hype is dissipating.

[305Baller]

Bird was very Kawhi-like in that he wouldn't see the ball during stretches... you see , my little shitspawn, you cute little shitspawn... before Jordan was given the ball mercilessly BECAUSE HE WOULD SCORE AT A HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN ANYONE ELSE AND LED THE LEAGUE IN SCORING 10+ YEARS, teams would share the ball, creating good TEAMS.

After Jordan, THE LEAGUE started GLORIFYING players that CONTROLLED THE BALL to make them MORE MARKETABLE to the MTV generation, etc.

This led to BRANBALL and it's EXPLOITATION



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

[Round Mound]

a 24-10-6 on almost 50% FG perimeter player not impressive? He wasn't a very athletic or a dunker but his fundamentals and skill level where off the charts. You can see many athletic guys in the NBA but most don't know how to play. Larry was the smartest player ever and one of the most skilled. And not to forget his b-ball iq, mental strenght, attitude and heart. Larry over Lebron in everything else not named athleticism.

[Shooter]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

Not to mention his highlights just look so slow compared to the players of today. ESPN reposted some of his stuff recently and it was a little bit sad. Slim pickins for 80s and 90s day ball I suppose.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif

The evolution of basketball continues

[86Celtics]

Not to mention his highlights just look so slow compared to the players of today. ESPN reposted some of his stuff recently and it was a little bit sad. Slim pickins for 80s and 90s day ball I suppose.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif

The evolution of basketball continues

As your IQ plunges. The only thing sad and slow is you.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

Very unimpressive

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

Very unimpressive

:roll:

Jeff needs to block posting from Asia.

[baudkarma]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

Larry Bird appeared in 1061 NBA games. Perhaps you should watch more than one of them before you pass judgement on his entire career.

[Shooter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

Very unimpressive

32.2 Game Score in a Finals game, probably a top 50 all-time Finals game. #NotBad Top 10 is like 37.0 and above so his 32.2 falls into that top 40 ish range if we go back and include every other guy but not bad for a white dude with a mullet.

Bird gained some respect after this game.

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

Very unimpressive

That was kinda insane when he beat out Hakeem for the jump ball. That sums up how Bird was. He found ways to do impossible things.


Jeff please ban the game score troll spammers. This is getting absurd.

[light]

Bird is more of an effect over time guy rather than being a highlight player.

He does have highlights but in general his game is more grounded and scrappy and gritty and not flashy.

Follow him over a season or over several seasons and you notice his tendency to consistently make winning plays.

[SATAN]

What a ****ing stupid thread. :facepalm

[Axe]

Being able to sweep baldan during the playoffs twice in a row is not all that impressive?

[Ass Dan]

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maS9smxRubI

every post after this was a waste of time.

kids need to shut the f*ck up

[3ball]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

Bruh... :facepalm

That's how the best players play.. BJ Armstrong mentioned in the documentary that when MJ reached his zenith as a ballplayer, he was just doing things to win the game - that's it - he was letting teammates move the ball and do as much as they could on their own... Then he stepped in if needed to put them over the top or to shift or pile on momentum as needed.. this method still requires a goat production rate, but it's with the optimal TIMING that maximizes chance of victory.. aka why score a bucket that a lesser player could've scored? Why not wait until a critical possession where the best player is actually NEEDED to score?

That's what the best players do.. lesser players like Nash, CP3 and Lebron think they need to make all the plays and pound the rock - they're wrong - their results speak for themselves.. a horrific championship frequency

[kawhileonard2]

He is a better version of Lebron.

[Bronbron23]

The other day I watched a full playoff game between Celtics and Lakers.

Certainly Bird was a great shooter and very fast passer. And like any other great player, he'd have his moments of greatness.

but

He'd have long stretches where he didn't even touch the ball. Like straight up they don't even include him for many possessions. Like he's Caldwell Pope or something. Wth is up with that.

It's called playing within a system. Him going stretches without getting the ball is a good thing. It means other players are getting lots of touches and more able to get a rythem going. This happens less so in ball dominant systems where everyone else but the ball dominator stands around waiting for him to make a play.

[Round Mound]

I also suggest people watch this play at 0:42 in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwjTw40mfls

How many players can do that play? Can Luka and Jocker do that in 2022?

[Lakers Legend#32]

Magic owned Bird.

[TheGoatest]

Gotta love when jordon extremist alts say that LeBron's isn't eligible for GOAThood because his game is "ugly" and then proceed to say that the guy with this jumpshot form is better:

https://schwartzsportsmemorabilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BIR16P248.jpg

:roll:

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/xqtDHwG/2-F545-B36-E15-B-4539-ACD6-7-C7-EEF114-C16.jpg (https://ibb.co/607mBGb)

https://i.ibb.co/hFTwqX0/4231820-B-E785-4-CB4-A94-B-AFDBCE210-EFC.jpg (https://ibb.co/CKSDrJL)

https://i.ibb.co/xh5SCJm/0-B68-E12-B-D0-AD-4-F30-BA9-B-F7-A7123-DD590.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/LrRLVkB/BEED677-A-B55-D-4-B7-B-9008-FED3-F8-A046-E0.gif (https://imgbb.com/)