How come nobody talks about Kawhi

[Jay-B]

Missed a free throw to put Spurs up 4 to secure the Spurs the 13 Championship in Game 6, seconds later Ray Allen nails a 3 and Miami goes on to win series

If it was Lebron it would be a thing that everyone mentions. Bitch made generation of fans

[Bronbron23]

Maybe because he was only 21 and only in his second year

[Jay-B]

Big deal, Lebron was only 22 when he was swept by the Spurs which everyone seems to mention

[Bosnian Sajo]

Big deal, Lebron was only 22 when he was swept by the Spurs which everyone seems to mention

I've never heard anyone mention that. It's a miricale he brought that team to the finals, he gets all the credit.


We will, however, mention the following:

Swept vs the Warriors in the finals (2018)

Lost 4-1 in the finals to the Warriors(2017), Mavs(2011), and Spurs (2014).


But he absolutely should get credit for bringing his team to the finals in 2007 regardless if he was swept, as well as winning 2 games vs the Warriors in 2015 finals without his 2nd and 3rd best players.


Gotta be unbiased with these things and look at the circumstance.

[The Iron Fist]

Missed a free throw to put Spurs up 4 to secure the Spurs the 13 Championship in Game 6, seconds later Ray Allen nails a 3 and Miami goes on to win series

If it was Lebron it would be a thing that everyone mentions. Bitch made generation of fans
Because nobody is making 50+ alts making the same stupid threads week after week, month after month, year after year proclaiming Kawhi as the greatest of all time.

[guy]

Yes. Lebron not only needed a teammate to bail him out, he also needed the other team to choke at the free throw line. They were as close as you get to losing a finals and needed a perfect storm of events to stop that from happening.

[sdot_thadon]

It's because Kawhi hasn't been identified as a threat to players x, y, or z just yet Op. Give it time. Although you are absolutely correct Lebron is held to a standard even the goat isn't held to regardless of who you got, and of course assuming he isn't your goat.

But he absolutely choked that one and it was talked about at the time briefly but wasn't a big deal because he wasn't the best player there yet.


I've never heard anyone mention that. It's a miricale he brought that team to the finals, he gets all the credit.


We will, however, mention the following:

Swept vs the Warriors in the finals (2018)

Lost 4-1 in the finals to the Warriors(2017), Mavs(2011), and Spurs (2014).


But he absolutely should get credit for bringing his team to the finals in 2007 regardless if he was swept, as well as winning 2 games vs the Warriors in 2015 finals without his 2nd and 3rd best players.


Gotta be unbiased with these things and look at the circumstance.
This is how it should be, but he's right I've seen it plenty of times. As he rose higher in stature that was one of the 1st parts of his career they tried to rewrite in order to say he was >>>[fill in blank] when in reality he was a 22 year old with no all league or all star teammates and willed his team past Detroit to the finals when they had no business being there. That was the 1st sign of what he'd become imo.

[bullettooth]

Because he was never an entitled douchebag with a tattoo that said 'Chosen 1' nor did he crown himself a King without proving SHIT.

LeBron is trash.

[Bosnian Sajo]

This is how it should be, but he's right I've seen it plenty of times. As he rose higher in stature that was one of the 1st parts of his career they tried to rewrite in order to say he was >>>[fill in blank] when in reality he was a 22 year old with no all league or all star teammates and willed his team past Detroit to the finals when they had no business being there. That was the 1st sign of what he'd become imo.

Well to be fair, Ilgauskas made 2 all star teams in the span of those 4 years leading up to 2007 so he did technically have an all star teammate. It's not like the 05-08 Lakers where literally only Kobe was an all star on that team, no one else.

That Cavs team was weak, but they did have a couple of solid players. Like 4-5 I can name off the top of my head.

[sdot_thadon]

Because he was never an entitled douchebag with a tattoo that said 'Chosen 1' nor did he crown himself a King without proving SHIT.

LeBron is trash.
It blows my mind how you could still be upset about a 17 year old kids tattoo choice and try to rationalize hating him for nearly 20 years because of it.:oldlol:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Well Kawhi followed it up by winning the whole damn thing the next year and delivering the most lopsided finals series of all time

Lebron followed up his first finals appearance by ducking Kobe in the finals for 3 straight years and then 2011 where he was outplayed by JJ Barea and Jason Terry

[RRR3]

Well to be fair, Ilgauskas made 2 all star teams in the span of those 4 years leading up to 2007 so he did technically have an all star teammate. It's not like the 05-08 Lakers where literally only Kobe was an all star on that team, no one else.

That Cavs team was weak, but they did have a couple of solid players. Like 4-5 I can name off the top of my head.
Ok then Kobe had an all star teammate in Butler in 05 :confusedshrug:

And let’s not act like Odom wasn’t better than Big Z

[sdot_thadon]

Well to be fair, Ilgauskas made 2 all star teams in the span of those 4 years leading up to 2007 so he did technically have an all star teammate. It's not like the 05-08 Lakers where literally only Kobe was an all star on that team, no one else.

That Cavs team was weak, but they did have a couple of solid players. Like 4-5 I can name off the top of my head.
If you actually watched the Cavs during Lebron's early days :oldlol: @ big z the allstar. Z moved around on the floor like robocop with a wet jumper and I loved his chemistry with Lebron then but he was 2 years removed from being an allstar, 31 years old and scoring just a hair above the lowest ppg of his career to that point. 12 ppg. Again not saying he was trash because i got a soft spot for Z but c'mon man.

[sdot_thadon]

Well Kawhi followed it up by winning the whole damn thing the next year and delivering the most lopsided finals series of all time

Lebron followed up his first finals appearance by ducking Kobe in the finals for 3 straight years and then 2011 where he was outplayed by JJ Barea and Jason Terry
So Kobe ducked Lebron in the finals in 2011 as defending champ? He got a crack at those same Mavs, how did that go I forget?

[Bosnian Sajo]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Ok then Kobe had an all star teammate in Butler in 05 :confusedshrug:

And let

[RRR3]

No he didn't, Butler didn't make the all star game until 2007...
And Big Z was two years removed from making it in 07 :confusedshrug:
And he had his statistical best seasons with LeBron in the first place.

Still doesn’t account for Odom

[Bosnian Sajo]

If you actually watched the Cavs during Lebron's early days :oldlol: @ big z the allstar. Z moved around on the floor like robocop with a wet jumper and I loved his chemistry with Lebron then but he was 2 years removed from being an allstar, 31 years old and scoring just a hair above the lowest ppg of his career to that point. 12 ppg. Again not saying he was trash because i got a soft spot for Z but c'mon man.

No I get it, you're right he wasn't a GAME CHANGER, but he was an all star. That's my point. He didn't make it without an all star teammate. 03 allstar, 05 all star, 07 nba finals.

Now mind you, it is in my belief that the 2007 Cavs team might have been the worst group of guys to EVER make it all the way to the finals. I haven't gone back to check finals teams to say this, but imo it's pretty obvious. I'm not pointing out Ilgauskas's all star appearances in order to make that team look sexier, lol. Just spitting facts.


RRR3 mentioning Caron Butler as an all star makes no sense since that was something that occurred in the future, not while he was a Heat or Lakers player.

[Bosnian Sajo]

And Big Z was two years removed from making it in 07 :confusedshrug:

How do you not understand the difference? Ilgauskas was a proven good player and proven all star before that finals matchup....meanwhile Caron was in his 3rd professional season as a Laker and had never made the all star game previously. Like think dude, use that brain lol. It's like saying Kobe had an all star teammate in Andrew Bynum when the guy was avearaging what, 10ppg in 2008? Made the all star team 3 years later.



[quote]
And he had his statistical best seasons with LeBron in the first place.

Still doesn

[RRR3]

How do you not understand the difference? Ilgauskas was a proven good player and proven all star before that finals matchup....meanwhile Caron was in his 3rd professional season as a Laker and had never made the all star game previously. Like think dude, use that brain lol. It's like saying Kobe had an all star teammate in Andrew Bynum when the guy was avearaging what, 10ppg in 2008? Made the all star team 3 years later.





Actually, Ilgauskas best season was in 2002-2003 when he put up 17/8 with 2 blocks per game and made his first all star appearance.


At least fact check before trying to debate with me, else I'll walk all over you.
51.6 TS% in 03. Better advanced stats with LeBron.

[Bosnian Sajo]

You can think player A is better than player B, that's not what me mr. sdot are discussing.


We are legitimatelly talking about players who were all stars or all nba.


Love Odom, but was he either of those two things? I'm not asking you was he better was he worse or better...I'm not asking you anything actually, but you wanna be in this discussion so answer that lol.

[RRR3]

You can think player A is better than player B, that's not what me mr. sdot are discussing.


We are legitimatelly talking about players who were all stars or all nba.


Love Odom, but was he either of those two things? I'm not asking you was he better was he worse or better...I'm not asking you anything actually, but you wanna be in this discussion so answer that lol.
Who cares if he ever made the all-star team or not? You think ASG appearances mean Big Z was better? Who would you rather have had if you were building a team?

[Bosnian Sajo]

Who cares if he ever made the all-star team or not? You think ASG appearances mean Big Z was better? Who would you rather have had if you were building a team?


You're a ****ing idiot.

[Mr Feeny]

No surprise here. The Kobe fanboy is claiming that Z was "technically an allstar" because he was only 2 years removed from making the all star game, even though he was completely washed up by 2007, but claims that a similar argument for Butler "technicalmy being an all star" shouldn"t count:oldlol:

[bullettooth]

It blows my mind how you could still be upset about a 17 year old kids tattoo choice and try to rationalize hating him for nearly 20 years because of it.:oldlol:

He hasn't changed. Why else did he ring chase by creating superteams? He's a lazy entitled millennial shitbag. Glad his shortcuts only got him 3*/9.

That's earned.

[Mr Feeny]

You're a ****ing idiot.

The irony there. He schooled you.

[RRR3]

You're a ****ing idiot.
:biggums:

What did I say that was dumb?


Calm down.

[Bosnian Sajo]

:biggums:

What did I say that was dumb?


Calm down.

Bro we are talking about 2 different things.

One poster said lebron didnt have an allstar and I responded saying he did. I also mentioned how I firmly believe that cavs team was probably the worst ever to make the finals....I'm not saying his team was great because he had another allstar, I'm just mentioning the fact that he did. Go back and read, in no way am I trying to make an argument against bron and that 2007 team. ..I'm just stating a fact.

FACT: by 2007 finals, ilgauskas made 2 all star teams (recent ones)

That's all it is, that's what that discussion was.

You're over here talking about "would you rather have odom or ilgauskas", which is fine, but I'm not claiming that ilgauskas is better so idk why you bring that up

[jstern]

Really shows how easily Lebron could had been 2-9. Just be grateful that Kawhi missed those free throws instead of complaining. Look at the bright side.

[Prometheus]

bosnian sajo is a fucc boi

[sdot_thadon]

No I get it, you're right he wasn't a GAME CHANGER, but he was an all star. That's my point. He didn't make it without an all star teammate. 03 allstar, 05 all star, 07 nba finals.

Now mind you, it is in my belief that the 2007 Cavs team might have been the worst group of guys to EVER make it all the way to the finals. I haven't gone back to check finals teams to say this, but imo it's pretty obvious. I'm not pointing out Ilgauskas's all star appearances in order to make that team look sexier, lol. Just spitting facts.


RRR3 mentioning Caron Butler as an all star makes no sense since that was something that occurred in the future, not while he was a Heat or Lakers player.
Oh ok, that's respectable. Myself personally, I don't really hang my hat on all star teammates or not just good details to know.


He hasn't changed. Why else did he ring chase by creating superteams? He's a lazy entitled millennial shitbag. Glad his shortcuts only got him 3*/9.

That's earned. I get it, you're also upset that he used the power he could wield to increase his chances at rings. You're not a fan on either of your accounts we get it. Thing that sucks most about him being a millennial is I'm willing to bet good money you're in the same age bracket, ie: a millennial yourself:oldlol:

[Bosnian Sajo]

bosnian sajo is a fucc boi


And you can slide over and suck this fucc boi's fatass dick, who is this guy?? :oldlol:

[Bosnian Sajo]

Oh ok, that's respectable. Myself personally, I don't really hang my hat on all star teammates or not just good details to know.



Same here man. Most of the time all star = cream of the crop, but we've had more than a few instances where that is just not true...see one of LeBron's other former all star teammates, Mo Williams :lol


Not hating on his game either, he was a damn good point guard in his hay day, 18ppg on 47% shooting and 44% from 3....I never realized he was such a good 3 point shooter, damn. But I don't think he was ever a top 10 pg in the league.

[Manny98]

Because he was never an entitled douchebag with a tattoo that said 'Chosen 1' nor did he crown himself a King without proving SHIT.

LeBron is trash.
Meltdown

[baudkarma]

Big deal, Lebron was only 22 when he was swept by the Spurs which everyone seems to mention

LeBron polarizes people. He has many fans and even more haters. So yes, every tiny failure on his part will be put under a magnifying glass.

Kawhi is not as controversial. He has a few avid fans, a few detractors, but most people don't have a strong opinion of him one way or the other, at least not a strong opinion about his personality. So he gets a pass on a lot of his mistakes.

[Mr Feeny]

Same here man. Most of the time all star = cream of the crop, but we've had more than a few instances where that is just not true...see one of LeBron's other former all star teammates, Mo Williams :lol


Not hating on his game either, he was a damn good point guard in his hay day, 18ppg on 47% shooting and 44% from 3....I never realized he was such a good 3 point shooter, damn. But I don't think he was ever a top 10 pg in the league.

Lebron - a much better playmaker than your hero - gets his role players plenty of open shots.

[superduper]

Lebron - a much better playmaker than your hero - gets his role players plenty of open shots.

Career APG:

LeBron- 7
Kobe- 5

Insane how one of the "greatest passers in history" was only capable of 2 more APG than the "worst chucker the history of the league has ever seen".

[Mr Feeny]

Career APG:

LeBron- 7
Kobe- 5

Insane how one of the "greatest passers in history" was only capable of 2 more APG than the "worst chucker the history of the league has ever seen".

A chucker is a guy who keeps jacking up shots despite being an awful shooter. Kobe was a 24.99 photo career scorer and shot 44.9%fg for his career. He is a 40%fg finals career scorer Nd a 39%fg elimination game scorer.

Lebron is a 51%fg career scorer. Do you understand why one would be called a chucker and
the other not so.

As far as assists go, give Lebron prime Shaq and he is averaging 10 apg. Instead of the apg or so that Kobe averaged.

[superduper]

As far as assists go, give Lebron prime Shaq and he is averaging 10 apg. Instead of the apg or so that Kobe averaged.

DAMN how was PRIME Shaq able to allow Kobe to get double/triple teamed in order to give him these assists? :eek:

https://live.staticflickr.com/2482/3954617440_a3e7dc95d8.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61IDqe4RyxL._SX425_.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/260g4kl.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

DAMN how was PRIME Shaq able to allow Kobe to get double/triple teamed in order to give him these assists? :eek:

https://live.staticflickr.com/2482/3954617440_a3e7dc95d8.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61IDqe4RyxL._SX425_.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/260g4kl.jpg

Talk about clutching for straws. Googling snapshots of single plays. Is that supposed to disprove the fact that on the vast majority of plays, Shaq was double and triple teamed and his supporting cast were wide open?

[iamgine]

Big deal, Lebron was only 22 when he was swept by the Spurs which everyone seems to mention
no one mentions this.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Lebron - a much better playmaker than your hero - gets his role players plenty of open shots.


That's not saying much though, considering Nick Young was never known as a great playmaker.


Now if you compare Lebron to other all time playmakers, like John Stockton or Kobe Bryant, I'd put Lebron just below them.

[Manny98]

Did this guy just say with a straight face that Kobe is a better playmaker than LeBron?

[Bosnian Sajo]

Yea, this guy claims that he's actually about 24x better approximately.

[superduper]

Did this guy just say with a straight face that Kobe is a better playmaker than LeBron?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-ijAyHxyo

Yes

[Manny98]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-ijAyHxyo

Yes
I actually think Kobe was a better passer than Jordan

But LeBron?

Hell f*cking no yall out of your mind

[Bosnian Sajo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-ijAyHxyo

Yes

Nah bro, that video is 100% edited. I read on reddit that Kobe never passed the ball.

[superduper]

Nah bro, that video is 100% edited. I read on reddit that Kobe never passed the ball.

"The worst chucker in basketball history" averaged 5 APG for his career while "the greatest LeGAWD passer in history" averaged 7 APG for his career.

Let that sink in.

[RRR3]

I actually think Kobe was a better passer than Jordan

But LeBron?

Hell f*cking no yall out of your mind
Backpicks made a pretty good case for Kobe being a better passer than Jordan too.

[Bosnian Sajo]

"The worst chucker in basketball history" averaged 5 APG for his career while "the greatest LeGAWD passer in history" averaged 7 APG for his career.

Let that sink in.

Kobe was also only as chucker, don't you know? Never played a lick of defense or passed the ball.


And no I don't want to hear about any all nba awards, all defense teams, video highlights, advanced stats....none of it. I read it on reddit and I grew up watching Lebron's box scores, therefore my opinion stands.

[bigkingsfan]

"The worst chucker in basketball history" averaged 5 APG for his career while "the greatest LeGAWD passer in history" averaged 7 APG for his career.

Let that sink in.
Kobe is the better scorer.
Lebron averages two more points.

Let that sink in.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Kobe is the better scorer.
Lebron averages two more points.

Let that sink in.


Damn bro, with everything that Lebron is capable of, you'd think his finals record was something like 5/7.

[RRR3]

Damn bro, with everything that Lebron is capable of, you'd think his finals record was something like 5/7.
Are we giving LeBron a teammate even better than he is for the majority of his finals? Give LeBron MJ I’m sure his finals record would be pretty good.

[Manny98]

Why is this Bosnian melting so hard :oldlol:

[Bosnian Sajo]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Are we giving LeBron a teammate even better than he is for the majority of his finals? Give LeBron MJ I

[Bosnian Sajo]

Why is this Bosnian melting so hard :oldlol:


Probably because I live in Florida and it is incredibly hot this time of year.

[bigkingsfan]

Damn bro, with everything that Lebron is capable of, you'd think his finals record was something like 5/7.
Yea, for some reason Pippen finals record is the same as MJ, who would have thought.

[RRR3]

Yea, we gave him AD :oldlol:


And now we wait :D
AD isn’t better than LeBron.

This team isn’t capable of winning a ring with Cousins and Rondo having significant roles. If they weren’t there, the Lakers would be contenders.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Yea, for some reason Pippen finals record is the same as MJ, who would have thought.

Yea, that is wild indeed. If only I could do the same comparison for Kobe...alas, his finals record is better than any of the star teammates he's every played with.


Kobe gets carried by them when they are on the Lakers, but then they lose when they leave the Lakers, which is the reason Kobe has a better record.


You know, it's funny. If I wan't a reddit phd basketball student, you'd think Kobe actually made his teammates better :lol They win with him but lose without him. What a crazy thought, right Kings?

[Bosnian Sajo]

[QUOTE=RRR3]AD isn

[SpaceJam2]

Because NO ONE cares about ZERO MVP Kawhi :lol

He is a top 25 player, not a top 10

[Bosnian Sajo]

Because NO ONE cares about ZERO MVP Kawhi :lol

He is a top 25 player, not a top 10


This thread stopped being about Kawhi days ago. :lol