Was it really MJ that "ruined" the NBA (it was Allen Iverson)?

[90sgoat]

MJ sometimes gets blamed for Lebron James and the like, because MJ was supposedly the first guard to go "get mine" and win the game by yourself.

This lead to the proliferation of guards who tried to be MJ: Kobe, Vince Carter, J-Rich, Stackhouse and many others.

I would argue, that no, this did not "break" the league, instead the rise of the ball-pounding, stat stuffing, AAU star has more to do with Allen Iverson than MJ.

While the guards mentioned above were black holes, they did not pound the ball all shotclock.

That belongs to AI, who would take selfish to an unprecedented level.

I would argue that it was AI, who inspired players like Tracy McGrady, Agent O, D-Wade etc, those players who in turned inspired Lebron James and all the coming ball pounding guards like Harden, Westbrook etc.

As the actual "you broke the league" timeline goes, I would say it goes - Allen Iverson -> Tracy McGrady -> Lebron James.

Tracy McGrady gets a pass here, but his way of ball pounding and shot clock eating was revolutionary for his time.

[Kblaze8855]

Tmac came in the year after AI. Wade is only like 6 years younger than Iverson.

All these guys wanted to be Jordan. All of them. Doesn

[fourkicks44]

MJ sometimes gets blamed for Lebron James and the like, because MJ was supposedly the first guard to go "get mine" and win the game by yourself.

This lead to the proliferation of guards who tried to be MJ: Kobe, Vince Carter, J-Rich, Stackhouse and many others.

I would argue, that no, this did not "break" the league, instead the rise of the ball-pounding, stat stuffing, AAU star has more to do with Allen Iverson than MJ.

While the guards mentioned above were black holes, they did not pound the ball all shotclock.

That belongs to AI, who would take selfish to an unprecedented level.

I would argue that it was AI, who inspired players like Tracy McGrady, Agent O, D-Wade etc, those players who in turned inspired Lebron James and all the coming ball pounding guards like Harden, Westbrook etc.

As the actual "you broke the league" timeline goes, I would say it goes - Allen Iverson -> Tracy McGrady -> Lebron James.

Tracy McGrady gets a pass here, but his way of ball pounding and shot clock eating was revolutionary for his time.

You are the biggest f@ggot the
world has ever seen.

Congratulations :applause:

[Reggie43]

Mj ruined the league in the sense that you have young guys trying to copy his volume scoring without focusing on fundamentals and efficiency, trying to take quality shots.

[90sgoat]

You are the biggest f@ggot the
world has ever seen.

Congratulations :applause:

Triggered.

Really, we make fun of Lebron stans and Jordanaires, but no one gets as triggered as AI wannabes.

[egokiller]

You are the biggest f@ggot the
world has ever seen.

Congratulations :applause:

Cool story, but what has that got to do with the topic of this thread? I like AI, but no need to get triggered.

[90sgoat]

Mj ruined the league in the sense that you have young guys trying to copy his volume scoring without focusing on fundamentals and efficiency, trying to take quality shots.

But I don't think the league really got worse for that.

There was a brief time when a lot of guys tried to be MJ, but in the long run, there are hardly any MJ copies left in the league. Who plays like MJ in the game today? Kawhi, that's it and that's good.

AI, on the other hand, brought the AAU playstyle to the league. You see his influence everywhere. Kyrie, Curry, Kemba, Dame, everyone basically doing the same dribble-dribble, anklebreaker, game, despite it being ineffective.

[ShawkFactory]

I

[90sgoat]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Tmac came in the year after AI. Wade is only like 6 years younger than Iverson.

All these guys wanted to be Jordan. All of them. Doesn

[90sgoat]

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]I

[fourkicks44]

Cool story, but what has that got to do with the topic of this thread? I like AI, but no need to get triggered.

You should have more sense than to get involved in this shit. You are better than that... well so I thought anyways.

OP's post is absolute shit and I don't want to dignify it in anyway, but how in f#cking gods name can anyone think McGrady was influenced by Allen Iverson on a basketball court in any relevant way. Especially in anyway that OP is privy to. Wtf.

[fourkicks44]

If I saw OP in a bowling alley I would smack him over the head with a chair.

[90sgoat]

If I saw OP in a bowling alley I would smack him over the head with a chair.

:roll:

I see what you did there.

[fourkicks44]

:roll:

I see what you did there.

:oldlol:

You are one unique muthat f/cka, fam.

[superduper]

Mj ruined the league in the sense that you have young guys trying to copy his volume scoring without focusing on fundamentals and efficiency, trying to take quality shots.

Just like Kobe and Curry did the same to the generation of people watching them. True GOATs :bowdown:

[Thorpesaurous]

I really think the hidden factor isn't Jordan, but the exploitation of the illegal defense rule that those Bull teams in particular exploited. That rule is really what freed up that wing penetration style to dominate the league. It was in place in the 80s, but it wasn't called the way it started getting called in the 90s.

And obviously expansion was a huge part of it. When they added 50 guys who weren't in the league a year before, rosters thinned out, and it made more sense to run offenses from the side, when there was just a much bigger gap between your top three players, and the rest of your roster. Exploit the rule that keeps defenders on the weakside so the thinned out roster isn't as exposed.

It's totally changed since the zone rules were loosened. It just makes so much more sense to go at teams from the top now. And hence the ball handling ability has gotten it's value pushed through the roof, and we're seeing all these PGs and shooters.

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]I

[Micku]

All of them wanted to be like Jordan. Even A.I. Jordan was his idol and favorite player.

Vince Carter, T-Mac, A.I, Kobe, even guys like Jerry Stackhouse, Michael Finley I think all got compared to MJ. It doesn't mean they had MJ style with the exception of Kobe.

They all wanted the championships, but they weren't as efficient as MJ and didn't have the teamplay flow.

Even later with LeBron James, Wade, Durant, and Steph and etc. They all wanted to be like Mike in a sense. But they all had different styles. LeBron is more like Magic, but his favorite player was MJ. Wade loved AI style and kind'a adapted his game, but his favorite player was MJ too.


AI really did influence the game tho. Mostly on the style and attitude almost. His handling and the crossovers. I don't think his style "ruined" the nba really. Ppl were complaining about the lack of good team or team ball in the early 00s, the slow pace, the defense, and desperately wanted another MJ even though Shaq and Kobe were a beast.

Kobe took what MJ had and added his own little style. This influence some players too. Like Kawhi and Tatum tried to emulate his style, which in turn is emulating MJ a bit.

Steph is different tier. I dunno if anyone could be as good as him for a while at doing what he does.

Today players have different styles that could do influence a new generation. But the MJ cloud may still hang over the head since he is still like the bar of success. It got kind'a chip down a bit due to LeBron, but it's still there.

edit:

Despite the team up, I really think GSW playsyle was really great for the league. And the Spurs and Heat back in 2013/2014. It was type of ball movement and teamplay that was amazing. But at the same time, I look at the Rockets. Man, the type of iso type is almost worst than the 00s if it weren't so damn efficient.

[egokiller]

All of them wanted to be like Jordan. Even A.I. Jordan was his idol and favorite player.

Vince Carter, T-Mac, A.I, Kobe, even guys like Jerry Stackhouse, Michael Finley I think all got compared to MJ. It doesn't mean they had MJ style with the exception of Kobe.

They all wanted the championships, but they weren't as efficient as MJ and didn't have the teamplay flow.

Even later with LeBron James, Wade, Durant, and Steph and etc. They all wanted to be like Mike in a sense. But they all had different styles. LeBron is more like Magic, but his favorite player was MJ. Wade loved AI style and kind'a adapted his game, but his favorite player was MJ too.


AI really did influence the game tho. Mostly on the style and attitude almost. His handling and the crossovers. I don't think his style "ruined" the nba really. Ppl were complaining about the lack of good team or team ball in the early 00s, the slow pace, the defense, and desperately wanted another MJ even though Shaq and Kobe were a beast.

Kobe took what MJ had and added his own little style. This influence some players too. Like Kawhi and Tatum tried to emulate his style, which in turn is emulating MJ a bit.

Steph is different tier. I dunno if anyone could be as good as him for a while at doing what he does.

Today players have different styles that could do influence a new generation. But the MJ cloud may still hang over the head since he is still like the bar of success. It got kind'a chip down a bit due to LeBron, but it's still there.

edit:

Despite the team up, I really think GSW playsyle was really great for the league. And the Spurs and Heat back in 2013/2014. It was type of ball movement and teamplay that was amazing. But at the same time, I look at the Rockets. Man, the type of iso type is almost worst than the 00s if it weren't so damn efficient.

There isn't a single player since MJ coming into the league to this day that doesn't want to be as good as MJ was. No one wants to be as good as KD, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, etc when they can instead wish to be as good as MJ was.

[Micku]

There isn't a single player since MJ coming into the league to this day that doesn't want to be as good as MJ was. No one wants to be as good as KD, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, etc when they can instead wish to be as good as MJ was.

Exactly.

MJ was great in terms of eye test with how polish his game looks and resume. Who doesn't want 10 scoring titles, 5 mvps, dpoy, 6 titles with 0 loses in the finals, 6 finals mvp, hit multiple game winning shots including your last game in the Finals, and space jam lol?

They don't all copy his style tho. Currently, probably only Kawhi and Tatum. But only because they are learning from Kobe. I think Kawhi has watched some MJ tapes too.

KD strive to be efficient as Bird a while back, and I think he is a big fan of AI and admire MJ and Kobe's game. But he has a different game entirely. Embid I think Wilt is better than MJ. Could be cuz he's a big man.


But MJ is still is the bar. It's been like 20 years since he retired as a Bull and ppl still talk about it. We don't talk about Kareem, Magic, Bird, Dr. J, Wilt, Oscar or Russell that way anymore. They are still mentioned, but MJ is goal. For better or worse.

[tpols]

i was under the impression iverson played a lot of off ball. (OP has been talking "pounding the rock")

watch the game 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E193lJfPZDs) highlights from 2001 Finals against LA.

Eric Snow is dribbling more. Iverson is cutting back and forth off ball with screens.

a ton of his baskets are two dribbles or less mate.

[Stringer Bell]

If I saw OP in a bowling alley I would smack him over the head with a chair.

:oldlol:

[DoctorP]

NO, it was post-MJ , "next-jordan hype", chucking, low percentage wannabees like Jerry Stackhouse, JR Rider and the like that ruined the NBA after Jordan's prime.

Kobe and Iverson were legit, although still somewhat also lower percentage chuckers.