I almost forgot how epic MJ was in Game 7 of the 1992 ECSF vs the Knicks

[sportjames23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U

Taking it to New York, having Pip's back vs X-Man, leading his team to victory in blowout fashion. MJ's got so many brilliant moments in the playoffs that this one gets overlooked.

GOAT gonna GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nikola_]

Im not Lebron fan, but that was MJs top3 playoff game

[Trollsmasher]

that team's second best player was poor man's Jeff Teague:roll:

[Da_Realist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U

Taking it to New York, having Pip's back vs X-Man, leading his team to victory in blowout fashion. MJ's got so many brilliant moments in the playoffs that this one gets overlooked.

GOAT gonna GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

That first half is probably the best half of basketball I've ever seen, considering the circumstances.

[Mr Feeny]

that team's second best player was poor man's Jeff Teague:roll:

Lebron is a poor man's Grant Hill.

[Phoenix]

that team's second best player was poor man's Jeff Teague:roll:

Just think, Cavs made the finals in 2017 over a Celtics squad featuring a rich mans Spud Webb( who got injured).

[Manny98]

Pippen with 11 rebounds 11 assists and 3 steals :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Pippen with 11 rebounds 11 assists and 3 steals :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Unfortunately, still not as good as Kyrie:eek:

[Manny98]

Unfortunately, still not as good as Kyrie:eek:
When did Kyrie ever get 11 assists and 11 rebounds whilst playing GOAT defense on the other side of the floor :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

When did Kyrie ever get 11 assists and 11 rebounds whilst playing GOAT defense on the other side of the floor :oldlol:
Got him...............

[superduper]

When did Kyrie ever get 11 assists and 11 rebounds whilst playing GOAT defense on the other side of the floor :oldlol:

When did Pippen average 27ppg including the title winning shot in game 7 of the NBA finals?





























































Boom.

[ArbitraryWater]

Refs were even more epic

[TheMan]

When did Pippen average 27ppg including the title winning shot in game 7 of the NBA finals?





























































Boom.:biggums:

While abusing the MVP...

Quick, someone bring a body bag... Manny98 got murdered :eek:

[TheMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U

Taking it to New York, having Pip's back vs X-Man, leading his team to victory in blowout fashion. MJ's got so many brilliant moments in the playoffs that this one gets overlooked.

GOAT gonna GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown::bowdown:

I had butterflies before that game...brutal Knicks team, that frontcourt. Chicago denied those Knicks from a title or two.

[Phoenix]

When did Pippen average 27ppg including the title winning shot in game 7 of the NBA finals?























































Boom.

Got him..............

[Mr Feeny]

When did Kyrie ever get 11 assists and 11 rebounds whilst playing GOAT defense on the other side of the floor :oldlol:

Who cares about 11 assists and 11 rebounds in a game? Kyrie averaged 27ppg an entire series and hit the title winning shot.
Now, log on to your alt to agree with yourself.

[Hey Yo]

When did Pippen average 27ppg including the title winning shot in game 7 of the NBA finals?
But I thought GS was decimated with injuries?? Praising Kyrie against an alleged gimp and 2nd string dudes?

Why is it that they were injured when LeBron is brought up, but Kyrie was the greatest thing since sliced bread against the same injured team?

[Vino24]

Imagine if Kyrie was a goat defensive player and an even better playmaker. Would have made LeBrons job much easier

[superduper]

Imagine if Kyrie was a goat defensive player and an even better playmaker. Would have made LeBrons job much easier

Not at all considering Kyrie was the one hitting all of the big and clutch time buckets to keep the Cavs in it every single time it looked like the Warriors were about to run away with it.

Neither Bran nor Pippen could have replaced that role and no amount of rebounds or assist will change that fact.

Try again because that was a bad attempt.

[Vino24]

Not at all considering Kyrie was the one hitting all of the big and clutch time buckets to keep the Cavs in it every single time it looked like the Warriors were about to run away with it.

Neither Bran nor Pippen could have replaced that role and no amount of rebounds or assist will change that fact.

Try again because that was a bad attempt.
You mean like when LeBron scores almost all of the 4th quarter points?

[Hey Yo]

:bowdown:

I had butterflies before that game...brutal Knicks team, that frontcourt. Chicago denied those Knicks from a title or two.
Yeah, they were brutal. They ranked 22nd out of 27 in scoring that year.

[Hey Yo]

Not at all considering Kyrie was the one hitting all of the big and clutch time buckets to keep the Cavs in it every single time it looked like the Warriors were about to run away with it.

Neither Bran nor Pippen could have replaced that role and no amount of rebounds or assist will change that fact.

Try again because that was a bad attempt.
:oldlol: duckin' my posts as usual.

[Phoenix]

But I thought GS was decimated with injuries?? Praising Kyrie against an alleged gimp and 2nd string dudes?



The 2017 Warriors weren't, and he averaged 29ppg against them.

[r0drig0lac]

When did Pippen average 27ppg including the title winning shot in game 7 of the NBA finals?




























































Boom.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qBd0tFdFV7l0gr6/giphy.gif

[Manny98]

Who cares about 11 assists and 11 rebounds in a game? Kyrie averaged 27ppg an entire series and hit the title winning shot.
Now, log on to your alt to agree with yourself.
LeBron ball elevated Kyrie to 27ppg :bowdown: :bowdown:

[andgar923]

Yeah, they were brutal. They ranked 22nd out of 27 in scoring that year.
What was their 'DEFENSIVE' rank?

The fact that they made it to this point while not being an offensive team says that they were BRUTAL.

[72-10]

yes he got clubbed a lot and still managed to score

very physical clash between two championship contenders

one of the greatest games in the sport's history

[72-10]

Yeah, they were brutal. They ranked 22nd out of 27 in scoring that year.

How can you say that about a team with such a great defense?

Oh yeah, that's right; you were busy watching your struggling and irrelevant Lakers...:rolleyes:

[72-10]

was watching MJ's 54 against the Knicks in the 93 ECF the other day and was reminded of how fluidly he scored within the flow of the team's offense...

[TheMan]

Yeah, they were brutal. They ranked 22nd out of 27 in scoring that year.
Yeah let's not mention at all that their defense was stellar and they played a very physical type of defense (hence the reason I said brutal) that noobs like you have only read about.

FOH scrub :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

was watching MJ's 54 against the Knicks in the 93 ECF the other day and was reminded of how fluidly he scored within the flow of the team's offense...


He shot 40% in that series. :oldlol:

Outside of that one game, he was pretty horrific in that series. Starks locked that ass up.

[72-10]

He shot 40% in that series. :oldlol:

Outside of that one game, he was pretty horrific in that series. Starks locked that ass up.

I don't recall how he shot in the other games, but in the 54 he was shooting everything from 18 feet and out including the 3. He did heat checks in that game.

It's really that one game, Game 3, which might be his worst playoff shooting performance of his career, that drags down the averages. But it's still a bit strange that it happened at Chicago Stadium since he knew all of his favorite spots on the floor.

Anyways, on the whole he shot fluidly within the team's offense before the second three peat.

[1987_Lakers]

What was their 'DEFENSIVE' rank?

The fact that they made it to this point while not being an offensive team says that they were BRUTAL.

Not really, just shows the lack of competition they faced. Besides the Bulls, Indiana was the biggest threat they faced in the East. Reggie Miller and a bunch of role players.

When they made the Finals in '94, they played the Rockets, another team with a star player and a bunch of role players.

[72-10]

Not really, just shows the lack of competition they faced. Besides the Bulls, Indiana was the biggest threat they faced in the East. Reggie Miller and a bunch of role players.

Magic? They weren't going to win, but they were still great.


When they made the Finals in '94, they played the Rockets, another team with a star player and a bunch of role players.

Rookie Sam Cassell didn't have a huge contribution in that series, but he isn't really a role player. His jay was pure.

[TheMan]

Not really, just shows the lack of competition they faced. Besides the Bulls, Indiana was the biggest threat they faced in the East. Reggie Miller and a bunch of role players.

When they made the Finals in '94, they played the Rockets, another team with a star player and a bunch of role players.
You could only play whose in front of you. The talent was spread around, SuperTeams made up of colluding beta "superstars" didn't exist back then, unlike in today's cupcake era. :confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

Not really, just shows the lack of competition they faced. Besides the Bulls, Indiana was the biggest threat they faced in the East. Reggie Miller and a bunch of role players.

When they made the Finals in '94, they played the Rockets, another team with a star player and a bunch of role players.
Besides, you're forgetting the early 90s Cavs, led by All Stars Mark Price, Brad Daugherty and Larry Nance coached by Lenny Wilkins were a title contender...

Someone wasn't around during that era :no:

[NBAGOAT]

You could only play whose in front of you. The talent was spread around, SuperTeams made up of colluding beta "superstars" didn't exist back, unlike in today's cupcake era. :confusedshrug:

The west in the mid 90s had like 5 legitimate contenders however. Thing with “colluding” is you kind of have to go along. Should jokic not be ok with say a Bradley Beal trade because it’s “beta” just because his team is already pretty good. His teams still likely not good enough to win a title, could easily be a 1st round exit. Is towns supposed to just be stuck with role players and Wiggins for 5yrs of his prime?

[72-10]

He shot 40% in that series. :oldlol:

Outside of that one game, he was pretty horrific in that series. Starks locked that ass up.

Was this near the time MJ accidentally severed one of the tendons in his shooting hand with a knife, or so the story goes?

[sportjames23]

Was this near the time MJ accidentally severed one of the tendons in his shooting hand with a knife, or so the story goes?

Nah, I think he severed that tendon like in 1999, after his last retirement from the Bulls, but before he played for the Wizards.

[AirFederer]

Who cares about 11 assists and 11 rebounds in a game? Kyrie averaged 27ppg an entire series and hit the title winning shot.
Now, log on to your alt to agree with yourself.
Oh snap :lol :cheers:

[Doranku]

The sequence starting at 6:02 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Was this near the time MJ accidentally severed one of the tendons in his shooting hand with a knife, or so the story goes?

That was 98. In the 93 playoffs, he had ****ed up his elbow. His follow through was awful and he was having lots of trouble with his shot. Against the Suns, he resorted to driving. You could see him whincing after shots in game 4 against the Knicks. He was in bad shape.

[Hey Yo]

What was their 'DEFENSIVE' rank?

The fact that they made it to this point while not being an offensive team says that they were BRUTAL.
No, it says the expansion era / league was lacking offense. That's why teams focused on playing defense and the game was basically slowed to a crawl.

[superduper]

Not really, just shows the lack of competition they faced. Besides the Bulls, Indiana was the biggest threat they faced in the East. Reggie Miller and a bunch of role players.

When they made the Finals in '94, they played the Rockets, another team with a star player and a bunch of role players.

I mean if you want to understate it like that then Bran lost to a star and a bunch of role players in 2009 (Dwight) and in 2011 (Mavs).

[Hey Yo]

That was 98. In the 93 playoffs, he had ****ed up his elbow. His follow through was awful and he was having lots of trouble with his shot. Against the Suns, he resorted to driving. You could see him whincing after shots in game 4 against the Knicks. He was in bad shape.
:milton

Jordan's elbow was so fvcked up........... that he was only able to avg. 33FGA against the Suns.


:roll: :roll:

[Hey Yo]

Magic? They weren't going to win, but they were still great.
No, they weren't great. The Magic were 21-61 and missed the playoffs in 1992.

[Hey Yo]

You could only play whose in front of you. The talent was spread around, SuperTeams made up of colluding beta "superstars" didn't exist back then, unlike in today's cupcake era. :confusedshrug:
The talent on teams were watered down due to the expansion era.

[superduper]

The talent on teams were watered down due to the expansion era.

Just about as watered down the talent in your conference becomes when you team up with the 2nd and 3rd best players from the same conference?

[Mr Feeny]

:milton

Jordan's elbow was so fvcked up........... that he was only able to avg. 33FGA against the Suns.


:roll: :roll:

Which has what to do with the fact that he was injured?

[Hey Yo]

Just about as watered down the talent in your conference becomes when you team up with the 2nd and 3rd best players from the same conference?
Yet they were the 2 seed and won less than 60 games that year.

:confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

Which has what to do with the fact that he was injured?
Just the mere fact that you have to ask shows you're dumb as shit.

[3ball]

X-man killed Pippen and took him out of that series

[paksat]

lulz @ bron stains in this forum acting like rebounds and assists win ball games

27 ppg

[Mr Feeny]

Just the mere fact that you have to ask shows you're dumb as shit.

The irony there:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

X-man killed Pippen and took him out of that series

He tried to take out Grant as well. In game 7, he elbowed Grant and Grant immediately grabbed his chest and bent over before Jordan told him (Grant) to on-sell the hit.

[Phoenix]

Some of the shit that happened that series would have resulted in multi-game bans and heavy fines nowadays:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c54af4e05ba8194044a1466bf8c9d851/tumblr_omxdhhZIUo1sdydefo1_400.gif

I'm not sure if the Bulls would have gotten past the Knicks had they not cut their teeth on the Pistons a few years earlier.

[Hey Yo]

Meh...... Starks clearly going for the ball. Pip came down on one foot and lost his balance. Mason almost held Pippen up from falling until he realized he had all head and let go.

Nothin' really that bad there.

[guy]

Meh...... Starks clearly going for the ball. Pip came down on one foot and lost his balance. Mason almost held Pippen up from falling until he realized he had all head and let go.

Nothin' really that bad there.

:roll:

[Phoenix]

Meh...... Starks clearly going for the ball. Pip came down on one foot and lost his balance. Mason almost held Pippen up from falling until he realized he had all head and let go.

Nothin' really that bad there.

Yeah ok.

[superduper]

Imagine calling that going for the ball LMAO...

Jordan/Kobe haters are so damn delusional

[Hey Yo]

Yeah ok.
Seriously man

Starks jumped just before before Pip did. Practically had his swatting arm overtop Pip's head (going for the ball) until Pip jumped up.

You suggesting that Mason didn't try to hold Pip up until realizing he had all head?

It would probably be called a flagrant 1 in today's league after they looked at replay due to head contact.

To suggest that was some kind of gruesome head hunting by Starks is a reach at best.

[Phoenix]

Seriously man

Starks jumped just before before Pip did. Practically had his swatting arm overtop Pip's head (going for the ball) until Pip jumped up.

You suggesting that Mason didn't try to hold Pip up until realizing he had all head?

It would probably be called a flagrant 1 in today's league after they looked at replay due to head contact.

To suggest that was some kind of gruesome head hunting by Starks is a reach at best.

This entire post is a reach and over-explanation. Starks was quite clearly making a play to stop any chance of Pippen going up for a shot, because that's not a simple 'go for the ball' lunge. You were taught to put guys on their ass back then especially in the playoffs. And Mason's reaction is irrelevant. A review of the play, and what direction they decided to go in terms of doling out a penalty, wouldn't have focused on anything but Stark's action, not his teammate's after the fact. Even saying Mason was trying to hold him and not being a simple reaction to Pippen falling in his path is very creative spin on your end. He had no intent of trying to break his fall.

[Manny98]

lulz @ bron stains in this forum acting like rebounds and assists win ball games

27 ppg
How did MJ get his 42 points

Through Pippen playing the point forward role and orchestrating the offense :bowdown:

[andgar923]

How did MJ get his 42 points


By being the GOAT.

[72-10]

No, they weren't great. The Magic were 21-61 and missed the playoffs in 1992.

I meant the 94 Magic; he was referring to the Knicks run at a title through the 90s.

[72-10]

The talent on teams were watered down due to the expansion era.

Uh, a little, but the league was loaded with grizzled veterans. The best teams were pretty ace, i.e. Seattle was brilliant, with five or six top 300 players all-time, so was Utah, so was New York, and Indiana was firing on all cylinders as a team with a strong interior presence by the mid-90s, which is one of the main reasons why they almost beat the Bulls.

As for the paltry offensive production, I think this has more to do with the slow pace than anything, conducive to grizzled veterans.

[72-10]

Some of the shit that happened that series would have resulted in multi-game bans and heavy fines nowadays:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c54af4e05ba8194044a1466bf8c9d851/tumblr_omxdhhZIUo1sdydefo1_400.gif

I'm not sure if the Bulls would have gotten past the Knicks had they not cut their teeth on the Pistons a few years earlier.

yup this was a brawl like few others have been since then

[Round Mound]

This was one of the most physical series i ever saw live. Jordan was simply not human.

[Mr Feeny]

Some of the shit that happened that series would have resulted in multi-game bans and heavy fines nowadays:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c54af4e05ba8194044a1466bf8c9d851/tumblr_omxdhhZIUo1sdydefo1_400.gif

I'm not sure if the Bulls would have gotten past the Knicks had they not cut their teeth on the Pistons a few years earlier.

They were filthy. Riley tried to play like the bad boys V2. They were hacking, elbowing, clotheslining, and even scratching players at times, as weird as that sounds. Jordan in game 4 went to the bench with blood on his arms because Starks kept raking him. It was plain weird.

[sportjames23]

They were filthy. Riley tried to play like the bad boys V2. They were hacking, elbowing, clotheslining, and even scratching players at times, as weird as that sounds. Jordan in game 4 went to the bench with blood on his arms because Starks kept raking him. It was plain weird.


Hell, Horace Grant had a cut on the top of his chest from getting raked. Riley wasn't bullshitting when he implemented the No Layups Rule. He set the tone right from the start of Game 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFfo1fZTKCU

[Manny98]

By being the GOAT.
:rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

They were filthy. Riley tried to play like the bad boys V2. They were hacking, elbowing, clotheslining, and even scratching players at times, as weird as that sounds. Jordan in game 4 went to the bench with blood on his arms because Starks kept raking him. It was plain weird.

Yep. As I was saying earlier, I'm not sure if the Bulls even get past the Knicks had they not taken their lumps from the Pistons. If New York was the first team of that sort Chicago encountered, it would have been a shock to the system.

Actually come to think of it, I'm wondering how the late 80's Pistons and 92-94 Knicks match up. New York evolved that style of play while adding a dominant post scoring presence in Ewing. Everyone overlooks them because they were the Bulls annual punching bag, but I think that team had a title or two in them if not for Chicago. I would have taken them over the Blazers and Phoenix mostly because of their defense and physicality. They're underrated, and you have the agenda posts talking about their lack of offense while totally ignoring that they were 2nd, 1st and 1st in defensive rating between 92 and 94 as if that's meaningless. That team wore you down and forced you to their pace.

[superduper]

Imagine seriously trying to argue that foul is anything other than a flagarant 2. "Going for the ball" my god you must have no sense of reality whatsoever.

[Manny98]

We're really going to act like Pippen didn't put on an absolute clinic that game getting a triple double and completely shutting down the Knicks entire offense :applause:

Pippen was CLEARLY the MVP of that game and the entire series tbh

[TheMan]

Meh...... Starks clearly going for the ball. Pip came down on one foot and lost his balance. Mason almost held Pippen up from falling until he realized he had all head and let go.

Nothin' really that bad there.
:oldlol:

[TheMan]

:rolleyes:
Deal with it

[paksat]

Meh...... Starks clearly going for the ball. Pip came down on one foot and lost his balance. Mason almost held Pippen up from falling until he realized he had all head and let go.

Nothin' really that bad there.

in wheels world, getting clubbed with a right hand is stopping a guy from falling

[Indian guy]

They're underrated, and you have the agenda posts talking about their lack of offense while totally ignoring that they were 2nd, 1st and 1st in defensive rating between 92 and 94 as if that's meaningless. That team wore you down and forced you to their pace.

Are they underrated though? They are generally remembered as pretty daunting teams. And they indeed were pretty good because of their dominant defense. But simply not championship material because of how 1 dimensional they were. Ranging from mediocre to awful on offense from 92-94. Such teams are never a serious player in the championship race. Even the 1 year they didn't have to face MJ, they still struggled to get past Chicago and lost to a nothing-special Houston team in a hideous final where the team that sucked less on offense won.

Calling out NY's offense is a valid criticism. Quality offensive talent is what puts a team over the top at the end of the day. NY's 2nd option was........John Starks....

[Phoenix]

Are they underrated though? They are generally remembered as pretty daunting teams. And they indeed were pretty good because of their dominant defense. But simply not championship material because of how 1 dimensional they were. Ranging from mediocre to awful on offense from 92-94. Such teams are never a serious player in the championship race. Even the 1 year they didn't have to face MJ, they still struggled to get past Chicago and lost to a nothing-special Houston team in a hideous final where the team that sucked less on offense won.

Calling out NY's offense is a valid criticism. Quality offensive talent is what puts a team over the top at the end of the day. NY's 2nd option was........John Starks....

I think they are. When you talk about the teams of the 90's the conversation will obviously start with Chicago, Houston squeezed in those couple of years, Orlando was one of the greatest 'what ifs' ever. Utah, Phoenix, Sonics, basically teams that at least got to the finals. Most of the conversation I see around the Knicks mostly deals with them not being able to get over Chicago, not how good they were in general. New York gave Chicago all they could handle in 92 so an argument could be made the 'real' finals happened in that series. The Bulls dealt with both Cleveland and Portland much more handily then they scrapped past New York, and they needed MJ to go off for 42 in game 7.

Even being putrid offensively, they were too dominant a defensive squad for their offensive shortcomings to be a detriment against any team other than the Bulls in their peak years. Hence why I say it was primarily Chicago standing in the way of them capturing a title or two. The Bulls beating them isn't indication of them not being championship material because they had the misfortune of running into an all-time great team every year. They struggled in 94 getting over a Jordan-less Chicago but I think that was the worst version of their 'peak years'. 92 and especially 93 were the years I think they could have won championships over the Western conference.

[3ball]

Are they underrated though? They are generally remembered as pretty daunting teams. And they indeed were pretty good because of their dominant defense. But simply not championship material because of how 1 dimensional they were. Ranging from mediocre to awful on offense from 92-94. Such teams are never a serious player in the championship race. Even the 1 year they didn't have to face MJ, they still struggled to get past Chicago and lost to a nothing-special Houston team in a hideous final where the team that sucked less on offense won.

Calling out NY's offense is a valid criticism. Quality offensive talent is what puts a team over the top at the end of the day. NY's 2nd option was........John Starks....
And other than Jordan, the bulls didn't have quality offensive talent either, infact less than the Knicks.

And this also puts MJ way over lebron, since MJ won with WAY less offensive talent (they made up for the talent deficit with MJ and teamwork).

[Hey Yo]

This entire post is a reach and over-explanation. Starks was quite clearly making a play to stop any chance of Pippen going up for a shot, because that's not a simple 'go for the ball' lunge.
If Starks was doing whatever he had to do stop Pippen from scoring, then he would have lunged into him (while jumping) trying to force Pip further under the basket or out of bounds. Or he would have wrapped him up before the act of shooting (not sure what team foul situation was like on that play)


You were taught to put guys on their ass back then especially in the playoffs.
What was the situation at that time?? What was the score? How much time is left in the game?? All that has to be known to get a better idea.

If Starks was trying to put Pip on his ass, then he surely wouldn't have went up with just one hand while swatting atb the ball. Plus you can clearly see Pip loses his balance when he comes down on one foot. If Starks used that much force, then Pip would have never had time to get his feet underneath him.

You can't see Pip just to his left INTO Starks' body trying to draw contact??? Pip's looking at the basket, all he knows is that Starks is there, he doesn't know that he's jumping into the air trying to swat the ball.


And Mason's reaction is irrelevant. A review of the play, and what direction they decided to go in terms of doling out a penalty, wouldn't have focused on anything but Stark's action, not his teammate's after the fact.
I realize that any penalty would have been due to what Starks did.


Even saying Mason was trying to hold him and not being a simple reaction to Pippen falling in his path is very creative spin on your end. He had no intent of trying to break his fall.
His natural reaction was to grab Pip (or whoever it would be) trying to break his fall. Pip was falling into (or very close to) Mason's legs / knees so the reaction was to break his fall until he realized he had all head and let him go. If he wanted to inflict harm then "Big Bad" Mason would have pushed down on Pip to make the fall even harder...... but that didn't happen.

The fact that you think Starks' actions was nothing but him trying to intentionally hurt Pip and get him out of the game is comical at best.

[Phoenix]

If Starks was doing whatever he had to do stop Pippen from scoring, then he would have lunged into him (while jumping) trying to force Pip further under the basket or out of bounds. Or he would have wrapped him up before the act of shooting (not sure what team foul situation was like on that play)


What was the situation at that time?? What was the score? How much time is left in the game?? All that has to be known to get a better idea.

If Starks was trying to put Pip on his ass, then he surely wouldn't have went up with just one hand while swatting atb the ball. Plus you can clearly see Pip loses his balance when he comes down on one foot. If Starks used that much force, then Pip would have never had time to get his feet underneath him.

You can't see Pip just to his left INTO Starks' body trying to draw contact??? Pip's looking at the basket, all he knows is that Starks is there, he doesn't know that he's jumping into the air trying to swat the ball.


I realize that any penalty would have been due to what Starks did.


His natural reaction was to grab Pip (or whoever it would be) trying to break his fall. Pip was falling into (or very close to) Mason's legs / knees so the reaction was to break his fall until he realized he had all head and let him go. If he wanted to inflict harm then "Big Bad" Mason would have pushed down on Pip to make the fall even harder...... but that didn't happen.

The fact that you think Starks' actions was nothing but him trying to intentionally hurt Pip and get him out of the game is comical at best.

This particular course of conversation isn't really that important to me to not default to my 'yeah ok' position. I really don't care that much if you see the play different enough from me to keep harping on about it in some point by point argument.

[Indian guy]

they were too dominant a defensive squad for their offensive shortcomings to be a detriment against any team other than the Bulls in their peak years.

That's quite the leap though. They weren't breezing past teams in the playoffs even when they weren't facing the Bulls from 92-94. Pistons took them to the limit in '92, Indiana gave them a very tough 1st round series in '93, then they had 3 consecutive 7 games series' in '94 against an MJ-less Bulls team, 47-win Pacers and one of the weakest champions ever in '94 Rockets. They also never swept anybody. It was always a struggle for NY, irregardless of opponent. To say they would've won a ring if not for the Bulls simply isn't supported by evidence.

I think history ranks them appropriately enough. Dominant defense but just too flawed at other facets of the game to be taken THAT seriously.

[Hey Yo]

Yep. As I was saying earlier, I'm not sure if the Bulls even get past the Knicks had they not taken their lumps from the Pistons. If New York was the first team of that sort Chicago encountered, it would have been a shock to the system.

Actually come to think of it, I'm wondering how the late 80's Pistons and 92-94 Knicks match up. New York evolved that style of play while adding a dominant post scoring presence in Ewing. Everyone overlooks them because they were the Bulls annual punching bag, but I think that team had a title or two in them if not for Chicago. I would have taken them over the Blazers and Phoenix mostly because of their defense and physicality. They're underrated, and you have the agenda posts talking about their lack of offense while totally ignoring that they were 2nd, 1st and 1st in defensive rating between 92 and 94 as if that's meaningless. That team wore you down and forced you to their pace.
I know their defense was great. It was the exact polar opposite of their offense.

Funny how I've pointed out many times how great the NYK D was in 1995 when MJ scored 55 at MSG his 5th game back. Yet the Magic were ranked 19th out of 27 in D that year and the excuses as to why MJ and Chicago got their asses handed to them in the 2nd round was because MJ was rusty.


Can't have it both ways.

[3ball]

The bulls had less offensive talent than the Knicks

outside of mj

You guys are talking about the Knicks weak offensive talent but the bulls were the same way..

[Mr Feeny]

The bulls had less offensive talent than the Knicks

outside of mj

You guys are talking about the Knicks weak offensive talent but the bulls were the same way..

But they did have MJ. That's the point.

[Phoenix]

That's quite the leap though. They weren't breezing past teams in the playoffs even when they weren't facing the Bulls from 92-94. Pistons took them to the limit in '92, Indiana gave them a very tough 1st round series in '93, then they had 3 consecutive 7 games series' in '94 against an MJ-less Bulls team, then Pacers and then Rockets in the Finals. None of those were special teams. It was always a struggle for NY. To say they would've won a ring if not for the Bulls simply isn't supported by evidence.

I think history ranks them appropriately enough. Dominant defense but just too flawed at other facets of the game to be taken THAT seriously.

The evidence also shows that New York gave Chicago their toughest challenge in both 92 and 93. Indiana and Detroit were physical eastern conference teams that provided them with good matchups, but they still won correct? Winning is winning, whether it be an inch or a mile( not my words if you've seen the Fast and Furious). It would be more fair to say that the evidence doesn't prove or disprove that they had a championship in them. I look at matchups and conclude that New York would have been too physical for both the Blazers and Suns. So them making it to the finals( had they beaten Chicago) would have put them in position to possibly win championships. A tough first rounder against Indiana doesn't say anything about how they play the Suns other than the Pacers physically match-up better....or perhaps New York played 'down' to them and 'up' to Chicago.

I mean you have to look at series in their own context. It's like looking at the 2008 Celtics blowing the Lakers off the floor.....but the 37 win Hawks took them to 7 in the first round. It happens.

[Phoenix]

I know their defense was great. It was the exact polar opposite of their offense.

Funny how I've pointed out many times how great the NYK D was in 1995 when MJ scored 55 at MSG his 5th game back. Yet the Magic were ranked 19th out of 27 in D that year and the excuses as to why MJ and Chicago got their asses handed to them in the 2nd round was because MJ was rusty.


Can't have it both ways.

He was capable of going off like old MJ in spots. The layoff mostly affected his consistency and game management. His talent alone would be good enough to drop 50 on a team. He hung 48 on the Hornets in the first round....but then he commits a mental lapse at the end of game one against Magic that you wouldn't expect from MJ in prior seasons.

It's entirely possible to say he was both great enough to go off in a game, but not be the MJ we saw previously, after a year off. Like, we don't have to go to the extremes of its either one way or the other. You guys like to argue in absolutes.

[Indian guy]

The evidence also shows that New York gave Chicago their toughest challenge in both 92 and 93.

True, but it could also just mean NY was a bad match-up for Chicago. Statistically, both '92 Blazers and '93 Suns were better than NY those respective seasons, but Chicago had an easier time with them than they did with NY.

NY vs. Blazers/Suns is all speculation. No way of knowing how that could've gone. I would certainly not pick NY though. History clearly suggests that they pretty much struggled with whoever they faced and it couldn't just be about "match-ups" when it's every opponent you go up against. It just means they weren't THAT good.

[Hey Yo]

The bulls had less offensive talent than the Knicks

outside of mj

You guys are talking about the Knicks weak offensive talent but the bulls were the same way..
Take Ewing off the Knicks and replace his starting role with Chris Dudley, NYK miss the playoffs and probably lottery team.

Take MJ off the Bulls and replace with journeyman 6th round pick Pete Myers and they win 55 games and go 7gms in the 2nd round against "the number 1 defense in the league"

In 1994, how did Pippen w/o MJ take the best D in the league to 7gms innthe 2nd round yet the following season, the Bulls with MJ get bounced after 6 games in the 2nd round against the 19th ranked defense??

[Phoenix]

True, but it could also just mean NY was a bad match-up for Chicago. Statistically, both '92 Blazers and '93 Suns were better than NY those respective seasons, but Chicago had an easier time with them than they did with NY.

NY vs. Blazers/Suns is all speculation. No way of knowing of how that could've gone. I would certainly not pick NY though. History clearly suggests that they pretty much struggled with whoever they faced and it wasn't just about "match-ups". And that's what you get with a flawed team.

Certainly it's all speculation. But really, it's not even strictly about championships. If they had even gotten to the finals the conversation about them wouldn't squarely be focused on being Chicago's annual punching bag.

Generally, I figure you're a nuanced enough poster to look past the A>B and B>C so A>C argument that I tend to see around here. Phoenix had their own struggles against the Lakers in the first round in 93, a team certainly far below them by most objective measure. I take nothing from that except the Lakers played them tough. Doesn't say anything about how they'd play the Knicks hypothetically, no more than Detroit in 92 playing New York tough says anything about whether the Blazers would beat them or not. Every series really is its own story.

[bigkingsfan]

And other than Jordan, the bulls didn't have quality offensive talent either, infact less than the Knicks.

And this also puts MJ way over lebron, since MJ won with WAY less offensive talent (they made up for the talent deficit with MJ and teamwork).
The Bulls with Pete Myers were one call away from beating the Knicks.

[Hey Yo]

He was capable of going off like old MJ in spots. The layoff mostly affected his consistency and game management. His talent alone would be good enough to drop 50 on a team. He hung 48 on the Hornets in the first round....but then he commits a mental lapse at the end of game one against Magic that you wouldn't expect from MJ in prior seasons.

It's entirely possible to say he was both great enough to go off in a game, but not be the MJ we saw previously, after a year off. Like, we don't have to go to the extremes of its either one way or the other. You guys like to argue in absolutes.
Dropping 55 on a top a defense in the league "on the road" is a type of performance we saw the year before. Especially when also dropping 48 and upsetting the 50 win Hornets (a win total that you guys like to use as a tier to say if a team is great or not)

Then using the "year off" excuse for mental lapses and losing just one round later??. :rolleyes:

[TheMan]

The Bulls with Pete Myers were one call away from beating the Knicks.
Ok, let's just ignore the fact that they also added Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley and Steve Kerr, players who would be instrumental in the following threepeat :rolleyes:

But they just added Pete Myers! Your agenda is so obvious :lol

[guy]

That's quite the leap though. They weren't breezing past teams in the playoffs even when they weren't facing the Bulls from 92-94. Pistons took them to the limit in '92, Indiana gave them a very tough 1st round series in '93, then they had 3 consecutive 7 games series' in '94 against an MJ-less Bulls team, 47-win Pacers and one of the weakest champions ever in '94 Rockets. They also never swept anybody. It was always a struggle for NY, irregardless of opponent. To say they would've won a ring if not for the Bulls simply isn't supported by evidence.

I think history ranks them appropriately enough. Dominant defense but just too flawed at other facets of the game to be taken THAT seriously.

I mean, they were literally one shot away from winning it all in 94 if Starks hits that 3. They were about as close to winning it all as you can get without winning, somewhat similar to the 2013 Spurs. So it

[guy]

He was capable of going off like old MJ in spots. The layoff mostly affected his consistency and game management. His talent alone would be good enough to drop 50 on a team. He hung 48 on the Hornets in the first round....but then he commits a mental lapse at the end of game one against Magic that you wouldn't expect from MJ in prior seasons.

It's entirely possible to say he was both great enough to go off in a game, but not be the MJ we saw previously, after a year off. Like, we don't have to go to the extremes of its either one way or the other. You guys like to argue in absolutes.

It

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=guy]It

[Phoenix]

Dropping 55 on a top a defense in the league "on the road" is a type of performance we saw the year before. Especially when also dropping 48 and upsetting the 50 win Hornets (a win total that you guys like to use as a tier to say if a team is great or not)

Then using the "year off" excuse for mental lapses and losing just one round later??. :rolleyes:

Yes. Like I said, spurts of greatness but not having the same consistency as say 93 isn't a crazy idea. You realize that MJ going into the playoffs had 17 games, right? Let's take out the fact that he was out for a year. Let's say he didn't retire. Let's say he played 94, and then at the start of the 95 season he suffered an early season injury and didn't return until March. Are you arguing his conditioning would be the same as if he had gone through the season? That's not even an MJ thing, anyone coming into a season 3/4 of the way wouldn't have the same level of conditioning than if they had the benefit of training camp, pre-season and the season to get your legs and timing. It's common sense that doesn't really need to be explained, and probably wouldn't be a conversation if not for the person involved. MJ is fully accountable for making that choice and it came back to bite him because he lost.

[Hey Yo]

You get the feeling that you'd lose a few brain cells reading some of the stupid arguments on here.
Especially yours from a few pages back:

:cletus: In the 93 playoffs, he had ****ed up his elbow. His follow through was awful and he was having lots of trouble with his shot. Against the Suns, he resorted to driving.



MJ proceeded avg. 33FGA against the Suns. Yeah his elbow was clearly fvcked up and resorted to just driving to the basket.

#fullretard

[bigkingsfan]

Ok, let's just ignore the fact that they also added Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley and Steve Kerr, players who would be instrumental in the following threepeat :rolleyes:

But they just added Pete Myers! Your agenda is so obvious :lol
Kukoc struggle in his rookie season, Longley/Kerr were decent rotational players every team had, nothing more.

[Hey Yo]

Yes. Like I said, spurts of greatness but not having the same consistency as say 93 isn't a crazy idea. You realize that MJ going into the playoffs had 17 games, right? Let's take out the fact that he was out for a year. Let's say he didn't retire. Let's say he played 94, and then at the start of the 95 season he suffered an early season injury and didn't return until March. Are you arguing his conditioning would be the same as if he had gone through the season? That's not even an MJ thing, anyone coming into a season 3/4 of the way wouldn't have the same level of conditioning than if they had the benefit of training camp, pre-season and the season to get your legs and timing. It's common sense that doesn't really need to be explained, and probably wouldn't be a conversation if not for the person involved. MJ is fully accountable for making that choice and it came back to bite him because he lost.
If he was worried about not being conditioned enough, then he wouldn't have came back in 95. No way he returns if he doesn't feel comfortable about where his body and mind are at basketball wise at that point of time.

It just that nothing was being said whatsoever about his conditioning,legs, timing, game shape etc..etc...etc... when he was doing that to the Knicks and then to the Hornets in the first round. It wasn't until Chicago losing to Orlando that the excuses started pouring in (not from you, but back then in general by the media and fans)

It went from "It's like he never left!!! He's still the greatest!!!!!!'

to a little over month later after losing

"He's rusty!!!" "He's not in game shape!!!!!!"

[Mr Feeny]

Especially yours from a few pages back:

:cletus: In the 93 playoffs, he had ****ed up his elbow. His follow through was awful and he was having lots of trouble with his shot. Against the Suns, he resorted to driving.



MJ proceeded avg. 33FGA against the Suns. Yeah his elbow was clearly fvcked up and resorted to just driving to the basket.

#fullretard

He did mess up up his elbow. Given that you weren't around back then and don't have a clue what happened, I - unfortunately - have to teach you something as basic as that.

[Hey Yo]

Ok, let's just ignore the fact that they also added Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley and Steve Kerr, players who would be instrumental in the following threepeat :rolleyes:

But they just added Pete Myers! Your agenda is so obvious :lol
Kerr was a journeyman at the time in 1994. Making Chicago his 4th stop in his 6th year in the league.

[Indian guy]

Generally, I figure you're a nuanced enough poster to look past the A>B and B>C so A>C argument that I tend to see around here.

Aren't you using the same reasoning though by essentially saying Since NY was Chicago's toughest competition, they would beat whoever came in the Finals?. But following that up with It's all about match-ups anyway! when I point out NY's struggles in the playoffs against non-Bulls teams too.

[Hey Yo]

He did mess up up his elbow. Given that you weren't around back then and don't have a clue what happened, I - unfortunately - have to teach you something as basic as that.
Links to articles of your claims that MJ's elbow was too injured to shoot and he resorted to driving to the basket for the series.

[TheMan]

Kukoc struggle in his rookie season, Longley/Kerr were decent rotational players every team had, nothing more.
So MJ wasn't surrounded by a stacked team? The way you Bran stans harp about the MJ Bulls, you make it seem like he was playing with a bunch of HOFers that carried MJ :oldlol:

[3ball]

Kerr was a journeyman at the time in 1994. Making Chicago his 4th stop in his 6th year in the league.
Hey Yo,

Why can't you accept that the 94' Bulls had all-pro Pippen and a couple "Korver" all stars in BJ and Horace - so they weren't a talented team, but they'd developed a championship system that yielded goat teamwork - that's how they won 55 games in 94' - teamwork, not talent

Need actual proof of the above statement??? Here you go:

The exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 1989 - they only won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8... So that was a legit lottery cast that developed the goat teamwork/system needed to 3-peat

So can you understand that?? The bulls won in 94' via great teamwork, not talent

[bigkingsfan]

So MJ wasn't surrounded by a stacked team? The way you Bran stans harp about the MJ Bulls, you make it seem like he was playing with a bunch of HOFers that carried MJ :oldlol:
1994 Bulls had three all stars.

The players you mentioned weren't anything other than rotational players at the time.

[guy]

If he was worried about not being conditioned enough, then he wouldn't have came back in 95. No way he returns if he doesn't feel comfortable about where his body and mind are at basketball wise at that point of time.

It just that nothing was being said whatsoever about his conditioning,legs, timing, game shape etc..etc...etc... when he was doing that to the Knicks and then to the Hornets in the first round. It wasn't until Chicago losing to Orlando that the excuses started pouring in (not from you, but back then in general by the media and fans)

It went from "It's like he never left!!! He's still the greatest!!!!!!'

to a little over month later after losing

"He's rusty!!!" "He's not in game shape!!!!!!"

What were you his ****ing trainer at the time? :oldlol: who are you to determine what he would and wouldn’t have done based on his comfort level at the time? Maybe he didn’t want to wait another 7 months to play competitive basketball again.

And a Lebron-fan talking about excuses is really ****ing grand :oldlol: I don’t know how many times over the last 10+ years or so that Lebron has went into a series with the media/fanboys expecting him to dominate and/or get the win only for him to get blown off the floor and then everyone act like he didn’t have a chance in the first place :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

Aren't you using the same reasoning though by essentially saying Since NY was Chicago's toughest competition, they would beat whoever came in the Finals?. But following that up with It's all about match-ups anyway! when I point out NY's struggles in the playoffs against non-Bulls teams too.

No, I haven't to this point given any real detailed reason. Mostly I've said one matchup doesn't dictate another. A detailed reason for why I'd pick New York would be because I think the Knicks frontline neutralizes Barkley( at least making it difficult enough for him) ,their backcourt matches up favorably and I think their physicality would have bothered them. They'd have slowed the tempo just enough to make it a half-court game. Obviously if they can't do that then the Suns have the edge in a run and gun affair.

[Phoenix]

If he was worried about not being conditioned enough, then he wouldn't have came back in 95. No way he returns if he doesn't feel comfortable about where his body and mind are at basketball wise at that point of time.

It just that nothing was being said whatsoever about his conditioning,legs, timing, game shape etc..etc...etc... when he was doing that to the Knicks and then to the Hornets in the first round. It wasn't until Chicago losing to Orlando that the excuses started pouring in (not from you, but back then in general by the media and fans)

It went from "It's like he never left!!! He's still the greatest!!!!!!'

to a little over month later after losing

"He's rusty!!!" "He's not in game shape!!!!!!"

Nobody knows what was in his head concerning the manner in which he came back. Athletes at this level aren't what they are without supreme confidence in their own ability. It's certainly not for anyone here to know. The point is he came back, and whatever he thought of his ability to take the Bulls over the top in that moment, he didn't. They lost and he is accountable for the decision he made that didn't pan out. As I said, WHATEVER HIS MENTALITY WAS, he lost. The following year against the same team he was much better, so it's not as if he played poorly in both series against Orlando to say it was an issue with that team. The Bulls were going to war in 95 against Shaq and Horace Grant with....Toni Kukoc. That may have played as much a role as anything MJ did or didn't do in that series.

[3ball]

1994 Bulls had three all stars.

The players you mentioned weren't anything other than rotational players at the time.
The exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 1989 - they only won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8...

So that was a lottery cast that developed the goat teamwork/system needed to 3-peat - that's how the 94' Bulls won 55 - teamwork, not talent

They had all-pro Pippen and a couple "Korver" all stars - so Pippen, Korver, and Chris Kaman weren't a talented team, but they'd developed a championship system that yielded goat teamwork - that's how they won 55 games in 94' - teamwork, not talent
.

[RRR3]

The exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 1989 - they only won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8...

So that was a lottery cast that developed the goat teamwork/system needed to 3-peat - that's how the 94' Bulls won 55 - teamwork, not talent

They had all-pro Pippen and a couple "Korver" all stars - so Pippen, Korver, and Brook Lopez weren't a talented team, but they'd developed a championship system that yielded goat teamwork - that's how they won 55 games in 94' - teamwork, not talent
Superstar Pippen without Jordan=55 wins

Jordan with superstar Pippen=57 wins


Damn. Looks like Pippen had more impact.

[bigkingsfan]

The exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 1989 - they only won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8...
.
They added Mike and did worse in the playoffs than 1994. Looks like the best player was Horace according to this logic and Rodman went on to be the savior.

[3ball]

They added Mike and did worse in the playoffs than 1994. Looks like the best player was Horace according to this logic and Rodman went on to be the savior.
Like I've been saying - the bulls won off teamwork, which MJ couldn't develop in only 17 games with a 100% new cast (except Pip)

Again, the exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 89'... They simply developed the goat teamwork/system needed to 3-peat - that's how the 94' Bulls won 55 - teamwork, not talent

[bigkingsfan]

Like I've been saying - the bulls won off teamwork, which MJ couldn't develop in only 17 games with a 100% new cast (except Pip)

Again, the exact same cast that 3-peated in 93' was a legit lottery cast in 89'... They simply developed the goat teamwork/system needed to 3-peat - that's how the 94' Bulls won 55 - teamwork, not talent
All NBA teams with titles with a combination of talent/teamwork. You gonna act like 1-9 never happened.

[TheMan]

1994 Bulls had three all stars.

The players you mentioned weren't anything other than rotational players at the time.
Yeah how can I forget... perennial All Stars Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong along with Pippen :rolleyes:

[TheMan]

Superstar Pippen without Jordan=55 wins

Jordan with superstar Pippen=57 wins


Damn. Looks like Pippen had more impact.
You're just gonna ignore that the MJ led 57 win Bulls team won their third chip in a row and the 55 win Pippen led Bulls team lost in the second round :confusedshrug:

Day impact doe :roll:

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[RRR3]

You're just gonna ignore that the MJ led 57 win Bulls team won their third chip in a row and the 55 win Pippen led Bulls team lost in the second round :confusedshrug:

Day impact doe :roll:
Why are you guys too thick to realize when I’m trolling 3ball?

[3ball]

All NBA teams with titles with a combination of talent/teamwork. You gonna act like 1-9 never happened.
The bulls won more with teamwork than most champs, if not all champs

The bulls are among the only teams to have a legit lottery cast (88' or 89') grow into a champion (91-93')... Exact same roster, but the know-how and teamwork improved substantially

And 1-9 is a joke .... 8 seed vs 1 seed losses are never criticized, and they happened in MJ's first few seasons when lottery picks like Durant, Lebron, Curry, Giannis, etc. miss the playoffs... :confusedshrug:

All young players gotta learn how to win and MJ did so better than anyone that ever played 3-pointer basketball... :bowdown:..

[bigkingsfan]

The bulls won more with teamwork than most champs, if not all champs

The bulls are among the only teams to have a legit lottery cast (88' or 89') grow into a champion (91-93')... Exact same roster, but the know-how and teamwork improved substantially

Rockets actually missed the playoffs altogether with Olajuwon.

[TheCorporation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U

Taking it to New York, having Pip's back vs X-Man, leading his team to victory in blowout fashion. MJ's got so many brilliant moments in the playoffs that this one gets overlooked.

GOAT gonna GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[Jay-B]

I always loved this series right here. NY really gave them a run for their money in this series. I personally think NY had a better chance here then the following year in the ECF. Jordan was unbelievable tho that game And I think 92 was JJorsans best playoff run.

[JBSptfn]

I always loved this series right here. NY really gave them a run for their money in this series. I personally think NY had a better chance here then the following year in the ECF. Jordan was unbelievable tho that game And I think 92 was JJorsans best playoff run.

Agreed. The 1992-93 Knicks should have kept the X-Man and Mark Jackson, drafted Latrell Sprewell, and traded Oakley and Starks to the Pistons for Rodman.

[72-10]

Imagine seriously trying to argue that foul is anything other than a flagarant 2. "Going for the ball" my god you must have no sense of reality whatsoever.

His ass got clotheslined

Starks got a flagrant and a tech with :01.9 left in the 3rd quarter at MSG in Game 6. Appears he wasn't told to leave. Anthony Mason also got a flagrant in the same game, 4th qtr 3:05.

[72-10]

Are they underrated though? They are generally remembered as pretty daunting teams. And they indeed were pretty good because of their dominant defense. But simply not championship material because of how 1 dimensional they were. Ranging from mediocre to awful on offense from 92-94. Such teams are never a serious player in the championship race. Even the 1 year they didn't have to face MJ, they still struggled to get past Chicago and lost to a nothing-special Houston team in a hideous final where the team that sucked less on offense won.

Calling out NY's offense is a valid criticism. Quality offensive talent is what puts a team over the top at the end of the day. NY's 2nd option was........John Starks....

Knicks were a perennial title contender from the early to mid 90s. Suggesting they were not suggests that you didn't watch them play.:rolleyes:

[72-10]

I know their defense was great. It was the exact polar opposite of their offense.

Funny how I've pointed out many times how great the NYK D was in 1995 when MJ scored 55 at MSG his 5th game back. Yet the Magic were ranked 19th out of 27 in D that year and the excuses as to why MJ and Chicago got their asses handed to them in the 2nd round was because MJ was rusty.


Can't have it both ways.

Come on, their offense wasn't as bad as the Pistons of the late 80s, and those teams won the chip; one year they swept the Lakers. Any team with Ewing on it around which to circle the offense is going to have a better offense than a team with Isiah Thomas as its best scorer. Though there's no doubt the Pistons played better defense.

[72-10]

[QUOTE=guy]I mean, they were literally one shot away from winning it all in 94 if Starks hits that 3. They were about as close to winning it all as you can get without winning, somewhat similar to the 2013 Spurs. So it

[72-10]

Superstar Pippen without Jordan=55 wins

Jordan with superstar Pippen=57 wins


Damn. Looks like Pippen had more impact.

This tired argument.:rolleyes:

Jordan and Pippen went into the 92-93 season without any rest due to the 1992 Olympics, and it's Jordan's 7th straight year with his motor at top notch, hence the drop off.

[72-10]

when one switches to baseball, the first thing that goes is one's legs

[Mr Feeny]

Come on, their offense wasn't as bad as the Pistons of the late 80s, and those teams won the chip; one year they swept the Lakers. Any team with Ewing on it around which to circle the offense is going to have a better offense than a team with Isiah Thomas as its best scorer. Though there's no doubt the Pistons played better defense.

It also a stupid argument. The 2004 Pistons couldn't play a lick of offense and still destroyed the league. If your defense is elite, you're going to he a perennial contender.

[Phoenix]

It also a stupid argument. The 2004 Pistons couldn't play a lick of offense and still destroyed the league. If your defense is elite, you're going to he a perennial contender.

The 2008 Celtics also won largely on the strength of their defense( ranked first in rating). They were 10th in offensive ranking, but their bread and butter was obvious....

[Phoenix]

when one switches to baseball, the first thing that goes is one's legs

Even in 96 MJ was still carrying,let's say, baseball muscle. He was lighter, leaner and quicker in 97 despite being a year older at an age where being a year older isn't a a good thing as an athlete( 34).

[Mr Feeny]

The 2008 Celtics also won largely on the strength of their defense( ranked first in rating). They were 10th in offensive ranking, but their bread and butter was obvious....

Agree with that.

[Phoenix]

Agree with that.

I mean hell, the 94 Rockets were the 15th ranked offensive team, the Knicks were...............wait for it.......16th. Even with Hakeem clearly outplaying Ewing the Knicks scored more points in that finals over 7 games. Hell, they lost game 7 by 6 points with Starks going 2 for 18.

The idea that the Knicks didn't have the offense to win a championship is silly. Their peak coincided with a GOAT level talent/ team in 92 and 93, and a top 10 player in 94 and probably win if Starks wasn't complete shit in the final game. ALOT of teams are losing under those circumstances.

[guy]

I mean hell, the 94 Rockets were the 15th ranked offensive team, the Knicks were...............wait for it.......16th. Even with Hakeem clearly outplaying Ewing the Knicks scored more points in that finals over 7 games. Hell, they lost game 7 by 6 points with Starks going 2 for 18.

The idea that the Knicks didn't have the offense to win a championship is silly. Their peak coincided with a GOAT level talent/ team in 92 and 93, and a top 10 player in 94 and probably win if Starks wasn't complete shit in the final game. ALOT of teams are losing under those circumstances.

And definitely win if Starks hits a last second 3 when he was already hot that isn’t blocked by Hakeem. The 94 Knicks were one of the few teams that were that close to a title. 88 Pistons and 13 Spurs are only other ones that come to mind. And somehow this would’ve elevated that teams legacy and in turn to some people impacted Jordan’s legacy.

[ClipperRevival]

Late 80's/early 90's, the absolute golden era of bball. When men were allowed to be men and you could put a man on his ass to test his toughness. That classic NBC theme song and of course, MJ just taking down one worthy opponent after another en route to 6/6/6. If you never witnessed, you will never understand. You can watch Youtube vids, hear stories but nothing like watching with your own eyes, game after game, series after series, finals after finals and just watching this man raise his game as the stakes got higher. Just a privilege to have witnessed.

[3ba11]

.
I'm now convinced that MJ's prime was actually 85-91'

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uamkj03x7Rs

[TheGoatest]

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/ar_4:3%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTg3OTIxOTUxMjg3NjgyMDk5/275142078_1179337769476738_8953484692703643051_n.j pg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeF6V-oXkAEzFk_?format=jpg&name=small

[Round Mound]

Awesome series :bowdown: