The comp argument is a lie for 3 simple, short reasons

[3ball]

.
1) Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly... But Lebron failed to effectively compete because he's 2-5 against the Spurs/Warriors, including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

2) MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings.. Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset

3) Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)


So the "comp" argument is bs.. carry on tho

[Vino24]

Pistons,Celtics took turns being the Bull

[TheMan]

.
1) Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly... But Lebron failed to effectively compete because he's 2-5 against the Spurs/Warriors, including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

2) MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings.. Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset

3) Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)


So the "comp" argument is bs.. carry on tho
LeBron is a victim of his colluding ways, ironically enough.

He tried to stack the deck so much in his favor that he even promised it would be easy and that he'd win not 5, not 6, not 7 etc :facepalm

LeBron "I'm gonna stack the deck so I can't possibly lose..."

KD "Hold my beer..." :lol

[TheMan]

Pistons,Celtics took turns being the Bull’s daddy :oldlol:
True

Then MJ smacked that Piston ass in humiliating fashion (don't give me that excuse that they were old when the Spurs were way older when they buttfukked LBJ), and the Bulls surpassed what the Celtics and Pistons did in the 80s :rockon: Won more chips than those two teams combined :eek:

We win.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=Vino24]

Pistons,Celtics took turns being the Bull

[Manny98]

LeBron & Nash have spearheaded the greatest offenses in NBA history

The 2016 & 2017 Cavs had a higher rORTG than any MJ led team ever

[3ball]

LeBron & Nash have spearheaded the greatest offenses in NBA history
Actually Magic's 87' Lakers are tied with KD's 17' Warriors for the highest team ortg of all time (115.6)

MJ's 92' Bulls are 2nd at 115.2

MJ's Bulls also have the #6, 12, and 16 offenses, which gives him the most top 10, top 15, and top 20 offenses of anyone ever

Otoh, Lebron's best teams peaked at #26 and #46 - those are his only offenses in the top 75 all-time .. Nash's Suns peaked at #10

So no, you're wrong... Lebron's CP3/Westbrook/Nash skillset doesn't yield sufficient ball movement to have goat offenses or teams

[Wally450]

The fact that you talk so much about LeBron shows that you see him as a threat to Jordan.

[Manny98]

Actually Magic's 87' Lakers are tied with KD's 17' Warriors for the highest team ortg of all time (115.6)

MJ's 92' Bulls are 2nd at 115.2

MJ's Bulls also have the #6, 12, and 16 offenses, which gives him the most top 10, top 15, and top 20 offenses of anyone ever

Otoh, Lebron's best teams peaked at #26 and #46 - those are his only offenses in the top 75 all-time .. Nash's Suns peaked at #10

So no, you're wrong... Lebron's CP3/Westbrook/Nash skillset doesn't yield sufficient ball movement to have goat offenses or teams
No taking into account the league average ORTG, Steve Nash led 6 of the top 12 greatest offenses in NBA history

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2185102-ranking-the-nbas-20-best-offenses-of-all-time

Also the 2017 Cavs had the highest ORTG of any team ever in the postseason

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9ilmly/the_top_10_all_time_finals_team_offenses_by_rortg/

[SouBeachTalents]

The fact that you talk so much about LeBron shows that you see him as a threat to Jordan.
That's what I've always said about 3ball. The fact he singles LeBron out and makes threads about him literally every single day is the biggest compliment he could ever pay him. He would never care that much if he didn't see him as a legitimate threat

[TheCorporation]

The fact that you talk so much about LeBron shows that you see him as a threat to Jordan.

200%

And 1ball knows it

MJ is a DISTANT #2 at best

[aj1987]

True

Then MJ smacked that Piston ass in humiliating fashion (don't give me that excuse that they were old when the Spurs were way older when they buttfukked LBJ), and the Bulls surpassed what the Celtics and Pistons did in the 80s :rockon: Won more chips than those two teams combined :eek:

We win.
Average age of a Piston player in '91 - 30.5 years (2nd oldest in the league)

Average age of a Heat player in '14 - 30.6 years (oldest in the league

Average age of a Bulls player in '91 - 26.9 years

Average age of a Spurs player in '14 - 28.9 years


:eek: :eek:

[TheMan]

Average age of a Piston player in '91 - 30.5 years (2nd oldest in the league)

Average age of a Heat player in '14 - 30.6 years (oldest in the league

Average age of a Bulls player in '91 - 26.9 years

Average age of a Spurs player in '14 - 28.9 years


:eek: :eek:
I see what you did there you sneaky fukk...

The core players age is what matters most, not role players who are easily replaceable and you know this...Timmy was 38, Manu was 36 and Parker was 31...all older than your boy, Wade and Bosh. Kawhi was just a baby back then...didn't stop him from FMVPing on LBJ :lol


The Pistons core players weren't old except for Laimbeer who was 33, Mark Aguirre was 30, Isiah Thomas was 29, Dennis Rodman 29 and Joe Dumars 27...all of them with maybe the exception of Laimbeer were smack in their prime.

Nice try though :oldlol:

[Shogon]

So the "comp" argument is bs.. carry on tho

So we're in agreement, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

[superduper]

It's actually an insult to Nash and CP3 to compare them to Bran.

They can actually shoot and have skill.

[NBAGOAT]

I see what you did there you sneaky fukk...

The core players age is what matters most, not role players who are easily replaceable and you know this...Timmy was 38, Manu was 36 and Parker was 31...all older than your boy, Wade and Bosh. Kawhi was just a baby back then...didn't stop him from FMVPing on LBJ :lol


The Pistons core players weren't old except for Laimbeer who was 33, Mark Aguirre was 30, Isiah Thomas was 29, Dennis Rodman 29 and Joe Dumars 27...all of them with maybe the exception of Laimbeer were smack in their prime.

Nice try though :oldlol:

If Ginobli is a core guy, how is Danny green or patty mills or bellinelli or even Dias not..., he

[Shogon]

So we're in agreement, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

lol...

:roll:

crickets

[3ball]

It's actually an insult to Nash and CP3 to compare them to Bran.

They can actually shoot and have skill.


Good point

He isn't really a 6'8" version of those guys because he can't shoot, and stiff arms instead

But the dribble-happy style is the same, just like his inability to win rings (without colluding for extra talent to offset the weaker teamwork/ball-domination)

[FKAri]

True

Then MJ smacked that Piston ass in humiliating fashion (don't give me that excuse that they were old when the Spurs were way older when they buttfukked LBJ), and the Bulls surpassed what the Celtics and Pistons did in the 80s :rockon: Won more chips than those two teams combined :eek:

We win.
That's just the narrative. In reality, Vaccaro and Falk finally convinced Stern to pull the plug on Zeke. He wasn't bringing in the revenue MJ was despite being a winner. Pistons "got old" overnight as a result. Zeke hates Falk to this day.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]If Ginobli is a core guy, how is Danny green or patty mills or bellinelli or even Dias not..., he

[TheMan]

lol...

:roll:

crickets
Crickets because your take is pretty stupid.

Russell has the rings but he played with a team stacked with HOFers, he was a defensive beast but on offense he was average.

Russell isn't even the GOAT two way center...go ahead and argue that he is a better two way player than KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan or Robinson...hell you could even go farther than that and include Ewing, Zo and KG as better two way players than Russell.

So no, Russell isn't the GOAT and hasn't been considered the GOAT since I can remember. Probably was in the GOAT convo back in the 60s along with Wilt, West and Robertson etc but a lot of modern players have pushed him down the list since then.

He has no argument for GOAT.

[Vino24]

LeBron is consensus and cemented top 3. OP

[Wally450]

Crickets because your take is pretty stupid.

Russell has the rings but he played with a team stacked with HOFers, he was a defensive beast but on offense he was average.

Russell isn't even the GOAT two way center...go ahead and argue that he is a better two way player than KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan or Robinson...hell you could even go farther than that and include Ewing, Zo and KG as better two way players than Russell.

So no, Russell isn't the GOAT and hasn't been considered the GOAT since I can remember. Probably was in the GOAT convo back in the 60s along with Wilt, West and Robertson etc but a lot of modern players have pushed him down the list since then.

He has no argument for GOAT.


Suggestion, lurk more and post less. :cheers:

[Shogon]

Crickets because your take is pretty stupid.

Russell has the rings but he played with a team stacked with HOFers, he was a defensive beast but on offense he was average.

Russell isn't even the GOAT two way center...go ahead and argue that he is a better two way player than KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan or Robinson...hell you could even go farther than that and include Ewing, Zo and KG as better two way players than Russell.

So no, Russell isn't the GOAT and hasn't been considered the GOAT since I can remember. Probably was in the GOAT convo back in the 60s along with Wilt, West and Robertson etc but a lot of modern players have pushed him down the list since then.

He has no argument for GOAT.

Your ignorance is overwhelming.

[3ball]

So we're in agreement, Bill Russell is the GOAT.
How many rings in 3-pointer basketball does Russell have???

Who has the most in 3-pointer basketball? (modern era)
.

[SouBeachTalents]

How many rings in 3-pointer basketball does Russell have???

Who has the most in 3-pointer basketball?
Robert Horry

[superduper]

[QUOTE=Vino24]LeBron is consensus and cemented top 3. OP

[3ball]

Robert Horry
Among franchise players, all-time greats, or goat candidates, who has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball??

Obviously, that player is the goat

[RRR3]

Among franchise players, all-time greats, or goat candidates, who has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball??

Obviously, that player is the goat
Shortened 3PT line seasons don’t count as part of the “3PT era”, since there wasn’t a legitimate 3PT line. So MJ has only 4 rings in the “3PT era”, tied with Shaq and behind Kobe and Duncan :cheers:

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Shortened 3PT line seasons don

[SouBeachTalents]

Actually, moving the 3-point line closer by 4 feet reduced spacing by 4 feet, so defenders covered ground much easier and league-wide ORtg fell significantly (unspaced offense is harder)

It was infact a harder version of the game, and MJ should get 1.5 rings for each year .. so he infact has 7 total rings, or 2 more than Kobe, and 3 more than Shaq
:roll:

[bigkingsfan]

Take Ordan three rings away from 91-93.

League as a whole attempted three's a game

7.1
7.6
9

[3ball]

Take Ordan three rings away from 91-93.

League as a whole attempted three's a game

7.1
7.6
9
The lack of spacing in 2-pointer basketball prevented good team offense, so a 1-way defender like Russell could control games and win the most... But the advent of the 3-point line and spacing changed everything and allowed good team offense - now a dominant offensive player (2-way player) could win the most, and that was MJ, the goat 2-way player

Btw, just an FYI:

MJ was good at threes anytime it mattered - he shot 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs... 39% on 3.8 attempts in 91-93' playoffs... 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals.

MJ was also good at threes anytime he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 threes every year except 90' and 93', when he had 3+ attempts at 38% and 35%, respectively.

Again, MJ has the most rings and FMVP's in 3-pointer basketball (modern era), so he's the GOAT...

[RealSkipBayless]

Crazy how 3ball has a response for everything. :oldlol:

[Vino24]

What was the toughest team MJ faced in the finals?

[3ball]

What was the toughest team MJ faced in the finals?
Hard to say, but I'll pick the Suns, who beat the stacked 93' Sonics, who upset (https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-western-conference-semifinals-rockets-vs-supersonics.html#all_SEA) Hakeem's favored Rockets

But what's the career high ppg of lebron's 3rd option vs MJ's 3rd option?

This shows that MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings..

Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset

[Vino24]

Hard to say, but I'll pick the Suns, who beat the stacked 93' Sonics, who upset (https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-western-conference-semifinals-rockets-vs-supersonics.html#all_SEA) Hakeem's favored Rockets

But what's the career high ppg of lebron's 3rd option vs MJ's 3rd option?

This shows that MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings..

Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset
How many all nba defenders did MJ play with?

[3ball]

How many all nba defenders did MJ play with?
Less than lebron

MJ played with Pip, Rodman, Grant

Lebron played with Hughes, Battier, Wade, Varejao

Now let's look at rim protection - how many bigs did MJ play with that averaged over 0.8 blocks per game, compared to Lebron?

[Vino24]

Less than lebron

MJ played with Pip, Rodman, Grant

Lebron played with Hughes, Battier, Wade, Varejao

Now let's look at rim protection - how many bigs did MJ play with that averaged over 0.8 blocks per game, compared to Lebron?
:roll:

[3ball]

:roll:


All NBA defender teammates:

MJ - 3
LBJ - 4


Bigs that averaged over 0.8 blocks:

MJ - 0
LBJ - 5


Overall, lebron had equal or more defensive help (I didn't even mention guys like Shumpert or Birdman)

[Shogon]

Crazy how 3ball has a response for everything. :oldlol:

Mental gymnastics.

[NBAGOAT]

Hard to say, but I'll pick the Suns, who beat the stacked 93' Sonics, who upset (https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-western-conference-semifinals-rockets-vs-supersonics.html#all_SEA) Hakeem's favored Rockets

But what's the career high ppg of lebron's 3rd option vs MJ's 3rd option?

This shows that MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings..

Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset

if name power is all that matters, how did the jazz beat the rockets in 97. Guess malone/stockton are the only stars of the "2 star" era to beat a "3 star" team and hmm stockton has a similar skillset to nash/cp3. Also just stop disrespecting nash/cp3 lol.

[bigkingsfan]

The lack of spacing in 2-pointer basketball prevented good team offense, so a 1-way defender like Russell could control games and win the most... But the advent of the 3-point line and spacing changed everything and allowed good team offense - now a dominant offensive player (2-way player) could win the most, and that was MJ, the goat 2-way player

Btw, just an FYI:

MJ was good at threes anytime it mattered - he shot 35.2% on 2.2 attempts in 85-93' playoffs... 39% on 3.8 attempts in 91-93' playoffs... 43% on 3.3 attempts in 91-93' Finals.

MJ was also good at threes anytime he tried - he attempted less than 1.5 threes every year except 90' and 93', when he had 3+ attempts at 38% and 35%, respectively.

Again, MJ has the most rings and FMVP's in 3-pointer basketball (modern era), so he's the GOAT...
Russell would be the GOAT three point shooter if the line existed back then and he actually tried.

[3ball]

if name power is all that matters, how did the jazz beat the rockets in 97. Guess malone/stockton are the only stars of the "2 star" era to beat a "3 star" team and hmm stockton has a similar skillset to nash/cp3. Also just stop disrespecting nash/cp3 lol.
Rockets were old obviously

But for most of Stockton's career, his style DIDN'T work - he was similar to lebron - amassing massive stats (14 apg.. perennial assist champ), but couldn't win shit

Only after nearly 20 years of honing their style, plus Malone's ascension to multiple-MVP-caliber, were the Jazz good enough to beat Popovich/Duncan's Spurs or Hakeem's Rockets or Shaq's 4-all-star Lakers.... Stockton actually took a step back and it was the Malone show

[warriorfan]

.
1) Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly... But Lebron failed to effectively compete because he's 2-5 against the Spurs/Warriors, including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

2) MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings; Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings.. Lebron's "Nash/CP3" skillset simply yields inferior ball-movement and teams than MJ's skillset

3) Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)


So the "comp" argument is bs.. carry on tho

No go on the cp3 comparison, Paul actually plays defense. Spot on about Nash, I

[Vino24]

Curry

[3ball]

[QUOTE=Vino24]

Curry

[NBAGOAT]

Rockets were old obviously

But for most of Stockton's career, his style DIDN'T work - he was similar to lebron - amassing massive stats (14 apg.. perennial assist champ), but couldn't win shit

Only after nearly 20 years of honing their style, plus Malone's ascension to multiple-MVP-caliber, were the Jazz good enough to beat Popovich/Duncan's Spurs or Hakeem's Rockets or Shaq's 4-all-star Lakers.... Stockton actually took a step back and it was the Malone show

the jazz and bulls were also old. Stockton had not taken a step back at all in 97 at least. You can argue malone isnt much better his mvp years than say 90 or 92. Finally, hakeem at least was still a top tier player in 97.