There is no consensus best player in the NBA right now

[StrongLurk]

There are 4-5 guys easily vying for that title.

I would put KD at 1 if he was healthy. But this era now kind of remind be of the 03-07 era where it seemed like 4-5 guys all were fighting for best in the league (Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Lebron).

Kawhi is probably the default number 1, but I'm certainly not sold on him being the best.

[PickernRoller]

Muddying the waters as usual....

Best player in the world is in Clippers uniform when he should have been in Lakers uniform if we got rid of the aging cancer known as Lebron James.

[StrongLurk]

Muddying the waters as usual....

Best player in the world is in Clippers uniform when he should have been in Lakers uniform if we got rid of the aging cancer known as Lebron James.

You sound like you would be mad if the Lakers won a chip this year.

[Wally450]

Muddying the waters as usual....

Best player in the world is in Clippers uniform when he should have been in Lakers uniform if we got rid of the aging cancer known as Lebron James.

You

[Manny98]

LeBron...

[Bronbron23]

There are 4-5 guys easily vying for that title.

I would put KD at 1 if he was healthy. But this era now kind of remind be of the 03-07 era where it seemed like 4-5 guys all were fighting for best in the league (Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Lebron).

Kawhi is probably the default number 1, but I'm certainly not sold on him being the best.
It's clearly kawhi right now. Kd isnt gonna be the same after the Achilles and LeBron is passed his prime. The only other candidate would be Greek but his lack of a post game and mid range hurts him in the post season.

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron and it's not close

Kawhit being carried to a title doesn't move the needle

[bullettooth]

LeBron...

Stop trolling.

[BarberSchool]

Agreed.

League Parity has greatly increased this off season, and the game and league will be better off for it.

My question is, do the clippers have the best two man tandem in the league ?
I think when both sides of the ball are figured in, Clippers top 2 are better, more versatile, and more complete than any other top 2 on any squad.

Change my mind.

[stalkerforlife]

Kawhi.

Not even close.

[StrongLurk]

People say Kawhi, but Harden played better against the Warriors than Kawhi did (that's Warriors WITH KD for 4 and a half games). Harden also put up 36/7/8 (most points per 100 poss ever) last year in the regular season and 32/7/7 in the playoffs.

People are defaulting to Kawhi because the Raptors won last year...but they only won because KD wasn't playing. Hell the Raptors went 17-5 in the regular season without Kawhi.

Honestly Curry might **** around and have a 2016 like season again...why can't he end up MVP again?

Maybe Giannis does improve his skills and end up shooting okay in the playoffs?

Kawhi will have his chance to prove he is best clearly since the Clippers are a top 3 team in the league...maybe the best.

But there is no one clearly standing above anyone.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi definitely has the best argument, but it's not consensus

[stalkerforlife]

People say Kawhi, but Harden played better against the Warriors than Kawhi did (that's Warriors WITH KD for 4 and a half games). Harden also put up 36/7/8 (most points per 100 poss ever) last year in the regular season and 32/7/7 in the playoffs.

People are defaulting to Kawhi because the Raptors won last year...but they only won because KD wasn't playing. Hell the Raptors went 17-5 in the regular season without Kawhi.

Honestly Curry might **** around and have a 2016 like season again...why can't he end up MVP again?

Maybe Giannis does improve his skills and end up shooting okay in the playoffs?

Kawhi will have his chance to prove he is best clearly since the Clippers are a top 3 team in the league...maybe the best.

But there is no one clearly standing above anyone.

Harden didn't play better.

Confirmed box score flunkie.

:facepalm

You just don't get it and your kind may never.

[StrongLurk]

Harden didn't play better.

Confirmed box score flunkie.

:facepalm

You just don't get it and your kind may never.

I watched all the games too obviously. It's just that people forget things and rely on bias for memory. Hence numbers to help you remember.

You've yet to make a case for why Kawhi is best.

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi >>>> your favorite player

[Bosnian Sajo]

His name is Kawhi Leonard

[stalkerforlife]

I watched all the games too obviously. It's just that people forget things and rely on bias for memory. Hence numbers to help you remember.

You've yet to make a case for why Kawhi is best.

Kawhi made his own case.

I don't have to make a case.

Elite on BOTH ends and won without a super team for a team he didn't even want to play for.

Just a random "Ah, f uck it. I'm a one year rental and I'll win a title with Kyle Lowry, an old Gasol, and a green Pascal."

It's over.

[StrongLurk]

Kawhi made his own case.

I don't have to make a case.

Elite on BOTH ends and won without a super team for a team he didn't even want to play for.

Just a random "Ah, f uck it. I'm a one year rental and I'll win a title with Kyle Lowry, an old Gasol, and a green Pascal."

It's over.

He is elite on both ends, but he only won because KD was out and Klay missed a game too. Also the rest of the Raptors killed it in iso situations and jacking threes...which Kawhi had nothing to do with. Hell, Kawhi wasn't even the "leader" of the Raps, it was Lowry.

So we know he would have lost if Warriors were fully healthy and Kawhi didn't prove anything new last year. We know he is a top 4-5 player in the NBA.

[Bronbron23]

I watched all the games too obviously. It's just that people forget things and rely on bias for memory. Hence numbers to help you remember.

You've yet to make a case for why Kawhi is best.
When comparing kawhi and harden your only focusing on half the game. Kawhi is miles ahead of harden defensively and offensively there at best even. Kawhi scores almost as much on better efficiency and without holding the ball all day. There isn't a GM on this planet that would take harden over kawhi. The only player that has an argument is LeBron and I think that's a long shot due to his age.

[StrongLurk]

When comparing kawhi and harden your only focusing on half the game. Kawhi is miles ahead of harden defensively and offensively there at best even. Kawhi scores almost as much on better efficiency and without holding the ball all day. There isn't a GM on this planet that would take harden over kawhi. The only player that has an argument is LeBron and I think that's a long shot due to his age.

Kawhi against Warriors with no KD: 28.5/10/4/2/1 on 43.4/35.7/90.6 (10.7 FTA)

Harden against healthy Warriors: 34.8/7/5.5/2/.5 on 44.3/35.1/82 (10.2 FTA)

Harden had a higher EFG but Kawhi had 1% higher TS due to free throws (ironically)

I don't see how Kawhi is "clearly" above Harden. Harden was definitely better in the regular season. Equal at worse in the playoffs. Harden's defense was solid all year, way better than 3-4 years ago. Hell Harden was 3rd in the league in steals and 3rd in deflections per game.

[SouBeachTalents]

He is elite on both ends, but he only won because KD was out and Klay missed a game too. Also the rest of the Raptors killed it in iso situations and jacking threes...which Kawhi had nothing to do with. Hell, Kawhi wasn't even the "leader" of the Raps, it was Lowry.

So we know he would have lost if Warriors were fully healthy and Kawhi didn't prove anything new last year. We know he is a top 4-5 player in the NBA.
You actually think Durant proved anything new while on the Warriors though :lol

Kawhi last year >>> either of Durant's title runs

[Bronbron23]

Kawhi against Warriors with no KD: 28.5/10/4/2/1 on 43.4/35.7/90.6 (10.7 FTA)

Harden against healthy Warriors: 34.8/7/5.5/2/.5 on 44.3/35.1/82 (10.2 FTA)

Harden had a higher EFG but Kawhi had 1% higher TS due to free throws (ironically)

I don't see how Kawhi is "clearly" above Harden. Harden was definitely better in the regular season. Equal at worse in the playoffs. Harden's defense was solid all year, way better than 3-4 years ago. Hell Harden was 3rd in the league in steals and 3rd in deflections per game.
Harden scoring more dosnt mean he's necessarily a better scorer. They play in two totally different systems. Harden has the ball longer and shoots more. If kawhi shot 4 or 5 more times a game he'd score just as much.

And please don't try to tell me that harden is anywhere near kawhi defensively.

[DoctorP]

There are 4-5 guys easily vying for that title.

I would put KD at 1 if he was healthy. But this era now kind of remind be of the 03-07 era where it seemed like 4-5 guys all were fighting for best in the league (Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Lebron, Wade).

Kawhi is probably the default number 1, but I'm certainly not sold on him being the best.

fixed it

[stalkerforlife]

Harden's USG% was 37, I think.

Leonard's was around 29.

(Vs Warriors)

Leonard allowed his team to flourish more against the Warriors and of course KL is an elite two time DPOY.

There's really no argument.

Harden is a stat stuffing loser. (Loser compared to KL and a few others)

There is ZERO excuse for losing game six against the Warriors without KD.

[TheMan]

LeBron...
:roll:

[SpaceJammeR]

kawhi is the consensus best player, so no excuses if clippers lose. clippers took warriors to 6 games. adding kawhi and pg is guarantee championship.

lebron is washed and was never good at basketball.

kd is injured.

harden is trash and will never win a ring.

[MrFonzworth]

Joel Embiid. Was the luckiest shot in NBA history away from a championship.

[warriorfan]

Yeah there is. It’s Kawhi Leonard. And if it isn’t the consensus can go **** themselves.

[PickernRoller]

OP looking back at this thread...

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l2SpWC6XwONBnwv60/giphy.gif

[stalkerforlife]

OP looking back at this thread...

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l2SpWC6XwONBnwv60/giphy.gif

:roll:

[MrFonzworth]

OP looking back at this thread...

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l2SpWC6XwONBnwv60/giphy.gif
He's right though, tons of people are saying Embiid, Kawhi and LeBron. A 3 way split isnt a consensus.

[Mr Feeny]

It's Kawhi, for most people.

[superduper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uh_QucyJ8w

[Xiao Yao You]

Kawai clearly

[StrongLurk]

Harden's USG% was 37, I think.

Leonard's was around 29.

(Vs Warriors)

Leonard allowed his team to flourish more against the Warriors and of course KL is an elite two time DPOY.

There's really no argument.

Harden is a stat stuffing loser. (Loser compared to KL and a few others)

There is ZERO excuse for losing game six against the Warriors without KD.

Harden put up 35/8/5 with 4 steals in game 6 you moron and he was even better in game 5. Harden played great the whole series.

And who exactly did Kawhi shut down on the Warriors???

Curry and Klay went off in the finals and Durant was great the 1 quarter he played.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Its definitely arguable.

Harden does not deserve that acclaim though.

I'd say Kawhi, Curry and a healthy Durant are in that same tier. AD could potentially be there as well. Many think he'll have a monster year with Lebron, and I don't disagree.

[StrongLurk]

Its definitely arguable.

Harden does not deserve that acclaim though.

I'd say Kawhi, Curry and a healthy Durant are in that same tier. AD could potentially be there as well. Many think he'll have a monster year with Lebron, and I don't disagree.

Look, I'm not a Harden fan...but are we going to ignore what he did last year?

Ignore other years of his career...Harden was as productive as anybody in history last year...

I mean we aren't even talking about the guy who won MVP last year, Giannis.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Look, I'm not a Harden fan...but are we going to ignore what he did last year?

Ignore other years of his career...Harden was as productive as anybody in history last year...

I mean we aren't even talking about the guy who won MVP last year, Giannis.

Personally? I don't think Harden's as good as his stats advertise.

This past postseason, he shot 37% vs Utah :oldlol:

And then in the semis, blew an opportunity vs a Durant-less Wariror team. At home. He went 11/25 in that game and was pitiful thru 3 quarters.

Sure. His defense has improved BUT its still below average. Harden shoots and settles for way too many threes imo. He's probably one of the best regular-season players, if not the best. I'd take several players over Harden in the playoffs though.

[superduper]

When watching basketball on paper goes wrong

[ZMonkey11]

Harden scoring more dosnt mean he's necessarily a better scorer. They play in two totally different systems. Harden has the ball longer and shoots more. If kawhi shot 4 or 5 more times a game he'd score just as much.

And please don't try to tell me that harden is anywhere near kawhi defensively.

Although I agree with your sentiment and believe Kawhi is the MUCH better player, it's pretty plain to see Harden is the better offensive talent.

He is literally a walking bucket from the time he touches the ball to the time he lets it go. He has an unguardable step back 3, can cross over anyone in the league, excellent finisher, has the strength of a SF, draws fouls almost on command, and is an excellent passer.

In this instance, you can judge who is a better scorer based on how much they score. Harden is the MUCH better scorer because he is a total offensive juggernaut.

[qrich]

Look, I'm not a Harden fan...but are we going to ignore what he did last year?

Ignore other years of his career...Harden was as productive as anybody in history last year...

I mean we aren't even talking about the guy who won MVP last year, Giannis.

What's there to ignore? He hammered the ball into the ground while, again, losing when it matters.

[dankok8]

Kawhi definitely has a case for best in the league but folks on this thread are underrating Harden. Harden actually had a better Game 6 against KD-less Warriors than Kawhi did. Don't let the team result cloud your judgment. Harden was fantastic against the Warriors in the playoffs and has taken his Houston teams about as far as they could go. Remember if his guys just have an average shooting night (as opposed to a historically poor one) in Game 7 in 2018, Harden is most likely an NBA champion right now. Margins are so thin sometimes.

To me the title of best in the league right now could go to:

Lebron
Durant
Kawhi
Harden
Curry
Giannis

Those six guys are absolutely elite and head and shoulders above the rest of the NBA. If I had a gun to my head I'd say Kawhi though. He does the most on the court IMO when his shot is not falling. If it wasn't for his injuries last year and I'm talking 2018 level then Lebron.

[Draz]

Kawhi is the #1.

[sdot_thadon]

I feel like Kawhi should be leading the pack but I can't shake the feeling that he hasn't seized the title so much as recieving it by default.

Imagine the player you hate on the most (Lebron, Curry, Kobe, etc)

-Forces a trade to a team that was at the top of its conference for the last few years. (60 wins, 1 seed in playoffs, etc)

-Adds 2 more solid players in Green/Gasol to said team.

-young player has breakout season (most improved player level)

-Wins a game 7 on a shot that took almost every piece of paint off the rim (aka a lucky bounce or 15 of them)

-Get the Warriors in the finals minus their best player and several players banged up. Then to ice the cake even further late in the series lose the 2nd best threat of whats left over to yet another injury.

Then ask yourself would you admit (Curry, Lebron, Kd, Kobe, Mj, etc) was the best player in basketball?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I feel like Kawhi should be leading the pack but I can't shake the feeling that he hasn't seized the title so much as recieving it by default.

Imagine the player you hate on the most (Lebron, Curry, Kobe, etc)

-Forces a trade to a team that was at the top of its conference for the last few years. (60 wins, 1 seed in playoffs, etc)

-Adds 2 more solid players in Green/Gasol to said team.

-young player has breakout season (most improved player level)

-Wins a game 7 on a shot that took almost every piece of paint off the rim (aka a lucky bounce or 15 of them)

-Get the Warriors in the finals minus their best player and several players banged up. Then to ice the cake even further late in the series lose the 2nd best threat of whats left over to yet another injury.

Then ask yourself would you admit (Curry, Lebron, Kd, Kobe, Mj, etc) was the best player in basketball?

GS being hobbled was the hard sell. No doubt. Durant going down was one thing, but Klay tearing his ACL? Ridiculous. I feel confident the Dubs win that game with how well Klay played up until his injury. Game 7 would be a tossup.

Your point about Kawhi joining a 60-win team? I get it. But you could have worded it better. Its not Kawhi joining a 60-win team much as it was subtracting Derzozan and Valanciunas. And then adding Kawhi/M.Gasol. They were great, but not some superteam either.

With Durant out, Steph undermanned and Lebron not making the playoffs...there was no consensus best player. Better arguments for some? Yup. But again, not a consensus.

[sdot_thadon]

GS being hobbled was the hard sell. No doubt. Durant going down was one thing, but Klay tearing his ACL? Ridiculous. I feel confident the Dubs win that game with how well Klay played up until his injury. Game 7 would be a tossup.

Your point about Kawhi joining a 60-win team? I get it. But you could have worded it better. Its not Kawhi joining a 60-win team much as it was subtracting Derzozan and Valanciunas. And then adding Kawhi/M.Gasol. They were great, but not some superteam either.

With Durant out, Steph undermanned and Lebron not making the playoffs...there was no consensus best player. Better arguments for some? Yup. But again, not a consensus.
Yeah maybe i didn't flesh that thought out enough, I didn't mean the Raptors were a super team but i feel they got really underrated to satisfy a narrative. They were a conference final level supporting cast. Kawhi is a whole level or 2 above DeRozan as a player. But adding both Gasol and Green gave him a Spurs style supporting cast imo.

The same narrative bs people use as a reason to demean player xyz is at play here. That's all i was really getting at.

[StrongLurk]

What's there to ignore? He hammered the ball into the ground while, again, losing when it matters.

Everyone has lost to the KD-added Warriors when they were healthy.

Kawhi would have been in the same boat as Harden.

Harden did more carrying this year than Kawhi, especially in the regular season.

Harden averaged almost 40ppg for the last half of the season...while the Raps when 17-5 without Kawhi in the regular season.

Again I'm not hating on Kawhi, he might be the best player this year with KD out and Lebron just getting older. But Kawhi still has to PROVE he is the best for the 19-20 season for sure.

[StrongLurk]

Personally? I don't think Harden's as good as his stats advertise.

This past postseason, he shot 37% vs Utah :oldlol:

And then in the semis, blew an opportunity vs a Durant-less Wariror team. At home. He went 11/25 in that game and was pitiful thru 3 quarters.

Sure. His defense has improved BUT its still below average. Harden shoots and settles for way too many threes imo. He's probably one of the best regular-season players, if not the best. I'd take several players over Harden in the playoffs though.

What? 35/8/5 with 5 steals on like 58% TS is him "blowing it"?

Game 5 and 6 of that series harden put up 33/6/6.5 with 4 steals per game on 65.1%TS...

Nice standards ya got there buddy...

[StrongLurk]

GS being hobbled was the hard sell. No doubt. Durant going down was one thing, but Klay tearing his ACL? Ridiculous. I feel confident the Dubs win that game with how well Klay played up until his injury. Game 7 would be a tossup.

Your point about Kawhi joining a 60-win team? I get it. But you could have worded it better. Its not Kawhi joining a 60-win team much as it was subtracting Derzozan and Valanciunas. And then adding Kawhi/M.Gasol. They were great, but not some superteam either.

With Durant out, Steph undermanned and Lebron not making the playoffs...there was no consensus best player. Better arguments for some? Yup. But again, not a consensus.

Exactly.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What? 35/8/5 with 5 steals on like 58% TS is him "blowing it"?

Game 5 and 6 of that series harden put up 33/6/6.5 with 4 steals per game on 65.1%TS...

Nice standards ya got there buddy...

In that Game 6, at home, Harden also shot 11/25 with 3 bad quarters.

Had 6 turnovers as well. FOUR of them in 4th, and 3 crucial ones in the final 2 minutes.

Against the "KD-less Warriors" you love using against Kawhi.

Again...I'm not saying he was horrible. But he's not as good as you're making him out to be either.

[qrich]

Everyone has lost to the KD-added Warriors when they were healthy.

Kawhi would have been in the same boat as Harden.

Harden did more carrying this year than Kawhi, especially in the regular season.

Harden averaged almost 40ppg for the last half of the season...while the Raps when 17-5 without Kawhi in the regular season.

Again I'm not hating on Kawhi, he might be the best player this year with KD out and Lebron just getting older. But Kawhi still has to PROVE he is the best for the 19-20 season for sure.

Injuries are a part of the game, but since you want to bring that up buddy....why did Harden take the Warriors to the same amount of games as the Lou Williams-Clippers despite the Clippers facing a healthier Dubs team?

[Rudeboy3]

Giannis is the best player stop trying to overthink it

[stalkerforlife]

When watching basketball on paper goes wrong

:roll:

[stalkerforlife]

Giannis is the best player stop trying to overthink it

We know it's you, Giannis.

Jig is up.

[rzp]

AD anyone?

[RealSkipBayless]

It's still Lebron.

After his reign ends it will be given to Giannis.

[superduper]

Giannis is the best player stop trying to overthink it

Borderline top 10 tbh

[Mr Feeny]

It's still Lebron.

After his reign ends it will be given to Giannis.

Hasn't been the best player for years. Durant was tiers above him the past 2 years and now Kawhi has taken the mantle from Durant.

[GOBB]

Anyone who feels Bron is not the best player in the nba is either a hater, moron, troll or all of the above.

[Xiao Yao You]

Anyone who feels Bron is not the best player in the nba is either a hater, moron, troll or all of the above.

defense and making the playoffs matter to some

[superduper]

defense and making the playoffs matter to some

And not being a diva and throwing teammates under the bus every single year and demanding overhauls and needing every single player to adapt to your needs and needing two superstars to be even remotely relevant.

[Manny98]

defense and making the playoffs matter to some
If only LeBron had a team that could go 17-5 without him like Kawhi

[superduper]

If only LeBron had a team that could go 17-5 without him like Kawhi

Maybe if he allowed them to foster teamwork and player/ball movement instead of having record high time of possession then his teams would be able to thrive without him. Instead they're forced to depend on his offensive monopolizing ways in which he prioritizes invidivual stats in a 5v5 team game.

Imagine not being about to understand that.

[Manny98]

Maybe if he allowed them to foster teamwork and player/ball movement instead of having record high time of possession then his teams would be able to thrive without him. Instead they're forced to depend on his offensive monopolizing ways in which he prioritizes invidivual stats in a 5v5 team game.

Imagine not being about to understand that.
LeBron didn't even rank in the top 10 in time of possession this season :lol

In fact he's never ranked in the top 10 once in his career i don't know what your talking about stop trolling

[Xiao Yao You]

If only LeBron had a team that could go 17-5 without him like Kawhi

or if he hadn't left the East

[egokiller]

Kawhi is the best player in the NBA currently.

[LAmbruh]

Poor Steph, Durant, Kyrie, Giannis, Embiid etc etc



Kobe stans collectively trying to find their new annual host for next season since the previous one was a let down

:yaohappy:

[RRR3]

or if he hadn't left the East
The Lakers did worse against the East.

[Xiao Yao You]

The Lakers did worse against the East.

must've played them more the 2nd half

[GOBB]

defense and making the playoffs matter to some

He

[GOBB]

Kawhi is the best player in the NBA currently.

2nd player at best.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]He

[DoctorP]

Either Giannis or Harden are the best players. AD cant stay healthy /consistent or he would be it

[GOBB]

he's not the best anymore. empty stats on a lottery team

Yet you pick Leonard who was ranked where prior to the season? Leonard wins nba title if Durant and Klay aren

[GOBB]

Either Giannis or Harden are the best players. AD cant stay healthy /consistent or he would be it

You clearly don

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Yet you pick Leonard who was ranked where prior to the season? Leonard wins nba title if Durant and Klay aren

[scuzzy]

thousands of NBA players


nearly 18 years in service


and consensus still can't definitively decide if Ol'GOAT is ready to pass LeTorch :bowdown:

[bison]

Y’all sleeping on LeRoid. He’s gonna crush it this season.

[sportjames23]

LeBron...

https://i.ibb.co/qmqDp2k/giphy.gif

[superduper]

[QUOTE=GOBB]Yet you pick Leonard who was ranked where prior to the season? Leonard wins nba title if Durant and Klay aren

[scm5]

I think people are right in saying that Kawhi is the best player in the league right now.

Halfway through this season though, I expect AD to be crowned as the best. He has all the talent and physical abilities to dominate the league, he just needs to piece it together and start winning which I believe he will with the help of Lebron.

I also think that there's a good chance Giannis will take over. He's gotten better every single season he's played, and yeah Kawhi stopped him last postseason, but he learns quickly and is hands down the most physically gifted player in the league.

[Rudeboy3]

Borderline top 10 tbh
yeah top10... all time. Better than hakeem :rockon:

[Rudeboy3]

You clearly don’t follow basketball. Giannis is not better than Leonard. And harden? Yeah you win the contrarian badge. Congrats
Giannis is better than leonard. He had a better regular season than him and was having a better playoff than him too, till his teams started bricking 3s. 4 game sample size doesn't overturn a 90 game+ sample size

[superduper]

Giannis is better than leonard. He had a better regular season than him and was having a better playoff than him too, till his teams started bricking 3s. 4 game sample size doesn't overturn a 90 game+ sample size

Yo Rudebwoi on some real shit though, like no trolling whatsoever, did you close your eyes in the 4th quarters when the Bucks desperately needed a bucket and Giannis was unable to even get a shot up because his one trick move was shut down? In this situation, does a "best in the world" type of player depend on his role players to make jump shots? Or does he just straight up take over hitting unstoppable mid range bombs one after the other like Kawhi (the best player in the world) was?

#EmGOAT

[Duderonomy]

Kawhi
Giannis
Harden
Durant
Curry

[Kingwillball]

Kawhi
Giannis
Harden
Durant
Curry

Blasphemy

[RealSkipBayless]

https://i.ibb.co/qmqDp2k/giphy.gif
The legend Wings

[3ball]

but they only won because KD wasn't playing.


True, but beating the Warriors without KD is still a feat, especially with a healthy Curry getting 30 ppg and no series-altering suspension of the series alpha

Kawhi's offense is simply optimal (see the next response below), so teammates reach their ceiling alongside him





Lebron might still be the best


No sir... Lebron can ONLY win with established vets because his style of turning teammates into spot-up shooters doesn't develop players or teamwork.

So the Nash/CP3/Lebron skillset is indeed flawed because it's poor for player and team development, which is why it mostly loses to the Spurs and Warriors' organic brand of ball-movement.

This ball movement brand is the tried-and-true best way to maximize a team, but it requires players to incorporate a different skillset.. The star must frequently not touch the ball, while teammates move the ball and establish themselves as threats - only when the team needs a momentum boost or to break a momentary lull/stalemate does the star step in and assert their dominance..

Unfortunately, guys like Nash, CP3, and Lebron can't play this way because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, Kobe and Kawhi





Hell the Raptors went 17-5 in the regular season without Kawhi.


That's because they play a quality brand of basketball that Kawhi fits his game into

They aren't playing a shit brand of ball designed around lebron





But there is no one clearly standing above anyone.


Kawhi clearly is because he just won the championship over the Warriors with a non-star cast.. And he beat Giannis and Embiid along the way .

No one else came close to this last season

[StrongLurk]

True, but beating the Warriors without KD is still a feat, especially with a healthy Curry getting 30 ppg and no series-altering suspension of the series alpha

Kawhi's offense is simply optimal (see the next response below), so teammates reach their ceiling alongside him



No sir... Lebron can ONLY win with established vets because his style of turning teammates into spot-up shooters doesn't develop players or teamwork.

So the Nash/CP3/Lebron skillset is indeed flawed because it's poor for player and team development, which is why it mostly loses to the Spurs and Warriors' organic brand of ball-movement.

This ball movement brand is the tried-and-true best way to maximize a team, but it requires players to incorporate a different skillset.. The star must frequently not touch the ball, while teammates move the ball and establish themselves as threats - only when the team needs a momentum boost or to break a momentary lull/stalemate does the star step in and assert their dominance..

Unfortunately, guys like Nash, CP3, and Lebron can't play this way because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, Kobe and Kawhi



That's because they play a quality brand of basketball that Kawhi fits his game into

They aren't playing a shit brand of ball designed around lebron



Kawhi clearly is because he just won the championship over the Warriors with a non-star cast.. And he beat Giannis and Embiid along the way .

No one else came close to this last season

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.

[stalkerforlife]

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.

Pathetic.

I'm thinking you're Simon at this point.

[Manny98]

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.
Fax :applause:

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.
:lol :facepalm

[sdot_thadon]

Kawhi clearly is because he just won the championship over the Warriors with a non-star cast.. And he beat Giannis and Embiid along the way .

No one else came close to this last season
This is the most laughable narrative spun out of Kawhi's chip run this year. I'm pretty sure Lowry is a 5 time allstar at this point.(more appearances that Kawhi himself) And his team was pretty damn good even while he was load managing for 20 something odd games this season.

And if i want to go full 3ball like you tend to do Gasol despite not being in his prime was a 3 time allstar and dpoy himself......:oldlol:

[red1]

kawhi lebron AD giannis

[StrongLurk]

:lol :facepalm

Lowry IS the vocal leader of the team and averaged almost 10 assists a game in the finals...

Clearly you did not watch the finals.

[Inferno]

It's probably LeBron then Steph, though Steph will probably have better stats (more volume) in the regular season :confusedshrug:

[RealSkipBayless]

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.
:applause: :applause:

[qrich]

Kawhi doesn't have a "brand" of basketball. Lowry was the leader of the team and creating plays for everyone (and when he wasn't, Pascal and FVV were killing it in iso situations). Kawhi doesn't make teammates better. Kawhi himself is just a great individual player who would have lost to the healthy Kevin Durant Warriors like every other team had over the last 3 years.

Hey sis, why'd you ignore my post?

I'm glad you agree Lou Gotti > Har_en though.

[Mr Feeny]

This is the most laughable narrative spun out of Kawhi's chip run this year. I'm pretty sure Lowry is a 5 time allstar at this point.(more appearances that Kawhi himself) And his team was pretty damn good even while he was load managing for 20 something odd games this season.

And if i want to go full 3ball like you tend to do Gasol despite not being in his prime was a 3 time allstar and dpoy himself......:oldlol:

And Shaq was a 3 times fmvp when Lebron had him in 2010. What kind of stupid logic is this? Why would prior accomplishments factor into how great Kawhi's supporting cast was?

Kyrie and Love in 2016 were both better than anyone Kawhi had this year. And he still beat the Warriors without needing 7 games and without needing a 27ppg scoring sidekick.

[SpaceJammeR]

And Shaq was a 3 times fmvp when Lebron had him in 2010. What kind of stupid logic is this? Why would prior accomplishments factor into how great Kawhi's supporting cast was?

Kyrie and Love in 2016 were both better than anyone Kawhi had this year. And he still beat the Warriors without needing 7 games and without needing a 27ppg scoring sidekick.

nah siakam over love. and kyrie would've been a lowry type player if not for bron.

please stop propping up this kawhi win as if he was the reason why they won. dude had an underwhelming finals. nothing superstar like.

beating the warriors without durant, injured klay and looney... hmmm beating them in 6 is not impressive.

switch lebron with kawhi on the raptors and everyone would be saying asterisk ring.

i like kawhi as a player but seriously dude was lucky to play with greats like tim, manu and parker. went to a raptors team that was already good and played an injured warriors team in the finals.

[Mr Feeny]

nah siakam over love. and kyrie would've been a lowry type player if not for bron.

please stop propping up this kawhi win as if he was the reason why they won. dude had an underwhelming finals. nothing superstar like.

beating the warriors without durant, injured klay and looney... hmmm beating them in 6 is not impressive.

switch lebron with kawhi on the raptors and everyone would be saying asterisk ring.

i like kawhi as a player but seriously dude was lucky to play with greats like tim, manu and parker. went to a raptors team that was already good and played an injured warriors team in the finals.

If you're taking Siakam over Love, that means Kawhi is much better at elevating his teammates than Lebron is, given that Love is a much better player.

Kyrie is better anyone Kawhi had.

About the asterisk, the 2016 beat an injured Curry-led Warriors that had Draymond missing for 5 games. Kawhi (with much less help than Lebron had) just beat a healthy Curry + Draymond + a Klay that played all but 5 quarters (offset by Durant playing a quarter.

If Lebron were on the Raptors, they would have gotten swept, just as last year's Cavs did, when he had Love (a better player than anyone on the Raptors).

[Manny98]

It's probably LeBron then Steph, though Steph will probably have better stats (more volume) in the regular season :confusedshrug:
This :applause:

[SpaceJammeR]

If you're taking Siakam over Love, that means Kawhi is much better at elevating his teammates than Lebron is, given that Love is a much better player.

Kyrie is better anyone Kawhi had.

About the asterisk, the 2016 beat an injured Curry-led Warriors that had Draymond missing for 5 games. Kawhi (with much less help than Lebron had) just beat a healthy Curry + Draymond + a Klay that played all but 5 quarters (offset by Durant playing a quarter.

If Lebron were on the Raptors, they would have gotten swept, just as last year's Cavs did, when he had Love (a better player than anyone on the Raptors).

draymond missed 1 game in 2016?? injured curry? really so now curry was injured. after saying he's back.

so let me get this straight. lebron took warriors to 6 games with deladova as his 2nd best player against a better warriors team but would get swept this year?

if you think kawhi beat a better warriors team than lebron did in 2016 then I know your trolling. if you are not, then you have no basketball knowledge.

[Mr Feeny]

draymond missed 1 game in 2016?? injured curry? really so now curry was injured. after saying he's back.

so let me get this straight. lebron took warriors to 6 games with deladova as his 2nd best player against a better warriors team but would get swept this year?

if you think kawhi beat a better warriors team than lebron did in 2016 then I know your trolling. if you are not, then you have no basketball knowledge.

Lebron needed a 27ppg scoring 2nd option to score the title winning shot in a 7th game while playing against an injured Curry. Kawhi beat a healthy Steph in 6 without a single other superstar. Klay missed 1 gamw this year and Green missed 1 in 2016.

You're right. You know nothing about basketball.

[SpaceJammeR]

Lebron needed a 27ppg scoring 2nd option to score the title winning shot in a 7th game while playing against an injured Curry. Kawhi beat a healthy Steph in 6 without a single other superstar. Klay missed 1 gamw this year and Green missed 1 in 2016.

You're right. You know nothing about basketball.

one player lead in all categories and came back down 3-1.
the other player played average and won against and injured squad.

you know nothing about basketball.