Bernie runs into reality of socialism... cuts his workers hours to give them $15/hr

[Shogon]

Hahahahahaha.

Holy shit, this couldn't get any better if it tried to.

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/opinion/columnists/2019/07/28/bernie-sanders-runs-into-socialist-reality/1819742001/

[QUOTE]Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., proudly announced this year that his presidential campaign would be the first in history to have a unionized workforce. Well, he just became the first presidential candidate in history to face a labor revolt from his unionized workforce.

According to The Washington Post, the Sanders campaign workers union, United Food & Commercial Workers Local 400, complained that field organizers are

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cszJjVaQYho

(dodges question repeatedly, deflects, attacks)

Then closes with...

"ORANGE MAN BAD!" LMAOOOOO

[TheMan]

ok

[Patrick Chewing]

Bernie dodging and running away from tough questions.


https://media.giphy.com/media/OhgnfFfvgkobS/giphy.gif

[Long Duck Dong]

Poor Bern taking Ls left and right. He called Trump a racist for saying Baltimore was a rat infested mess, after which it was pointed out he himself called Baltimore a "3rd World Country". :oldlol:

[Hawker]

ok

Nice deflection

[tpols]

Bernie dodging and running away from tough questions.


https://media.giphy.com/media/OhgnfFfvgkobS/giphy.gif


what a rat :lol

typical usa politician.

at least take it like a man. like the Don.

[coin24]

Bernie dodging and running away from tough questions.


https://media.giphy.com/media/OhgnfFfvgkobS/giphy.gif


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ScalsFan21]

Bruh, 46 solved this issue a week ago. I think his campaign workers are making $17/hr now at minimum plus insurance.

Is it an embarrassing story for him? Kinda, seemed avoidable af. But the whole point of calling for things like a $15 min. wage law is because all employers would have to follow it, part of mitigating the competitive disadvantage. You can't liken supporting particular laws, to agreeing to play by a different set of rules yourself. Although yeah, Bernie did kind of do that too. :lol

But it's like saying "omg, Bernie flew on a private jet X times for Hillary yet says he cares about climate change". Yeah. Electing Hillary would've been better for climate change than electing Trump, and it was the most efficient way to try to make that happen. A lot of these hypocrisy burns are ridiculous.

[Hawker]

Bruh, 46 solved this issue a week ago. I think his campaign workers are making $17/hr now at minimum plus insurance.

Is it an embarrassing story for him? Kinda, seemed avoidable af. But the whole point of calling for things like a $15 min. wage law is because all employers would have to follow it, part of mitigating the competitive disadvantage. You can't liken supporting particular laws, to agreeing to play by a different set of rules yourself. Although yeah, Bernie did kind of do that too. :lol

But it's like saying "omg, Bernie flew on a private jet X times for Hillary yet says he cares about climate change". Yeah. Electing Hillary would've been better for climate change than electing Trump, and it was the most efficient way to try to make that happen. A lot of these hypocrisy burns are ridiculous.

Yeah - but now they are working less hours so Bernie has two choices:

1) Lose productivity as I have no doubt you have to work long hours when working for a campaign. What might happen if you lose productivity in the real world? Lose a business? Might make Sanders more likely to lose the election.

2) Hire more people thus making it more expensive to operate and maybe hiring unqualified individuals.

Not only that - nobody looking for experience or some young person will be able to get hired onto Bernie's campaign since it will be too expensive to hire them. This shuts out low skilled and entry level people.

Reminds me of the new republic (liberal news) for an inequality editor with this ad:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D91POSuXkAA-BYb.jpg

Now, can someone tell me why that this individual can only work 29.5 hours and not more? Wouldn't have anything to do with providing health insurance would it? :lol

How stupid can these people be? Gotta love unintended consequences.

[Shogon]

Yeah - but now they are working less hours so Bernie has two choices:

1) Lose productivity as I have no doubt you have to work long hours when working for a campaign. What might happen if you lose productivity in the real world? Lose a business? Might make Sanders more likely to lose the election.

2) Hire more people thus making it more expensive to operate and maybe hiring unqualified individuals.

Not only that - nobody looking for experience or some young person will be able to get hired onto Bernie's campaign since it will be too expensive to hire them. This shuts out low skilled and entry level people.

Reminds me of the new republic (liberal news) for an inequality editor with this ad:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D91POSuXkAA-BYb.jpg

Now, can someone tell me why that this individual can only work 29.5 hours and not more? Wouldn't have anything to do with providing health insurance would it? :lol

How stupid can these people be? Gotta love unintended consequences.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

It’s almost as if everyone who supports Bernie is wholeheartedly economically illiterate.

Also yes the minimum wage prices people out of the market entirely. The minimum wage probably started off with good intentions and some people push for it due to truly good intentions in their heart but they don’t understand that life isn’t fair and that a minimum wage hurts just as many people as it helps if not more.

[GimmeThat]

“the trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

well, and the definition of c*nt is someone who only lets a man *** once

because clearly human can run out of God's money, and can you imagine a carpenter asking for a hand?

[Shogon]

[QUOTE=GimmeThat]

[Hawker]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

It’s almost as if everyone who supports Bernie is wholeheartedly economically illiterate.

Also yes the minimum wage prices people out of the market entirely. The minimum wage probably started off with good intentions and some people push for it due to truly good intentions in their heart but they don’t understand that life isn’t fair and that a minimum wage hurts just as many people as it helps if not more.

The minimum wage actually didn't start out with good intentions.

It originally was used to keep black workers (who were more unskilled and would accept lower wages) out of a job because the unionized white workers didn't like them doing the same work for lower wages. Another reason why unions suck - lazy people that want to do the same job for 30 years with continuous raises want to keep unskilled 18 year olds out of the workforce.

Whatever your opinion is on that (it was racist to pay black people less than whites etc.) - that kept black workers from making wages to raise a family, get ahead etc. The additional regulations just made it worse - not better.

That is actual racism - not the nonsense being thrown around today.

[Shogon]

The minimum wage actually didn't start out with good intentions.

It originally was used to keep black workers (who were more unskilled and would accept lower wages) out of a job because the unionized white workers didn't like them doing the same work for lower wages. Another reason why unions suck - lazy people that want to do the same job for 30 years with continuous raises want to keep unskilled 18 year olds out of the workforce.

Whatever your opinion is on that - that kept black workers from making wages to raise a family, get ahead etc.

That is actual racism - not the nonsense being thrown around today.

:roll:

Holy shit. I

[Hawker]

[QUOTE=Shogon]:roll:

Holy shit. I

[TheMan]

Nice deflection
ok

[Kblaze8855]

So the people in question are salary but when you break down the hours its under 15? I only skimmed this thing.

If we are taking the minimum wage issue into salaried employees its a whole other conversation.

They ever approve the Obama era changes to the salaried employee law?

Used to be you could pay a guy like 29K a year but call him a manager and make him work any hours without OT but I think it was gonna raise to the 40s and a lot of businesses fought it. The places like gas stations and fast food who pay assistant managers shit but make them work 55 hours on the low end.

Ive "worked" 90 hour weeks plenty of times on salaried jobs. You just stop looking at it that way in time. Some jobs you are damn near always working to some extent. I get contacted about work issues on my vacation. Ive been woken up at 5:15am in a hotel room by the beach with calls from work and its not even like "Sorry.....just had a question. Wont take long..." they just go right into the issue and know im fine with it.

Some jobs you are never really.....off. Not entirely. Id imagine being a campaign worker in election season is one of them.

[sammichoffate]

I don't understand why the Democrats don't fight for minimum wage adjusting for inflation, $15 seems like such an arbitrary number when states have different COL across the board. Living in California compared to Arkansas is night and day w/ that wage.

[ScalsFan21]

I don't understand why the Democrats don't fight for minimum wage adjusting for inflation, $15 seems like such an arbitrary number when states have different COL across the board. Living in California compared to Arkansas is night and day w/ that wage.

Well yeah, it's part of the establishment okey doke. The independent senator from Vermont understands you have to chain it.

[Hawker]

How much did Bernie cut his wage to make the agreement happen btw? That's the solution he calls for right? He's technically the CEO in this situation.

[pastis]

lol@ socialism:

think about it:

not only do we have a mandatory universal healthcare in germany, but we also have a mandatory unemployement insurence, work-accident insurence and nursingcare insurence. all costs are automatically deducted from your salary. and half of all insurence costs are paid by the employeur.

mandatory of 25 paid days of vacation (most people have 30)

if you are ill and cant work, the employeur has to pay for 6 weeks your salary. after 6 weeks - if you are still ill and cant work - the insurence pays you sick benefits up to 70% of your former salary (but max 3000 a month)

you cant be fired without any reason. you need a reason and to wait the legal period of notice. the legal period of notice is 4 weeks (working less than 6 month in the company) and an additional 4 weeks for every two years you worked at the company (but max length of 12 month for 20 years in the same company)

if you did not find a new job within the period of notice, the unemployement insurence pays you the first 6 month 67% of your former salary, then an additional 6 month 50%. if you are over 55 its extended to 18month.

max working 48h a week (exceptions possible if every hour over 48h is paid 50% more and enough resting time)

[Prometheus]

lol@ socialism:

think about it:

not only do we have a mandatory universal healthcare in germany, but we also have a mandatory unemployement insurence, work-accident insurence and nursingcare insurence. all costs are automatically deducted from your salary. and half of all insurence costs are paid by the employeur.

mandatory of 25 paid days of vacation (most people have 30)

if you are ill and cant work, the employeur has to pay for 6 weeks your salary. after 6 weeks - if you are still ill and cant work - the insurence pays you sick benefits up to 70% of your former salary (but max 3000 a month)

you cant be fired without any reason. you need a reason and to wait the legal period of notice. the legal period of notice is 4 weeks (working less than 6 month in the company) and an additional 4 weeks for every two years you worked at the company (but max length of 12 month for 20 years in the same company)

if you did not find a new job within the period of notice, the unemployement insurence pays you the first 6 month 67% of your former salary, then an additional 6 month 50%. if you are over 55 its extended to 18month.

max working 48h a week (exceptions possible if every hour over 48h is paid 50% more and enough resting time)

That sounds absolutely horrible. Surely Germany's economy is in the gutter because of all this, no?

[sammichoffate]

That sounds absolutely horrible. Surely Germany's economy is in the gutter because of all this, no?Germany is 4th in global GDP behind US, China, and Japan.

[pastis]

the crazy thing is: before the so called "hartz4"-reform from 2004, which liberalized the welfare state and the labour market, the welfare state was even bigger and more "comfortable". but from an american point of view, our present welfare state is already "socialism", because workers have rights

[Prometheus]

the crazy thing is: before the so called "hartz4"-reform from 2004, which liberalized the welfare state and the labour market, the welfare state was even bigger and more "comfortable". but from an american point of view, our present welfare state is already "socialism", because workers have rights

What's the catch. Why would this not work here? Everyone is very adamant that it wouldn't. Why?

[Shogon]

So the people in question are salary but when you break down the hours its under 15? I only skimmed this thing.

If we are taking the minimum wage issue into salaried employees its a whole other conversation.

They ever approve the Obama era changes to the salaried employee law?

Used to be you could pay a guy like 29K a year but call him a manager and make him work any hours without OT but I think it was gonna raise to the 40s and a lot of businesses fought it. The places like gas stations and fast food who pay assistant managers shit but make them work 55 hours on the low end.

Ive "worked" 90 hour weeks plenty of times on salaried jobs. You just stop looking at it that way in time. Some jobs you are damn near always working to some extent. I get contacted about work issues on my vacation. Ive been woken up at 5:15am in a hotel room by the beach with calls from work and its not even like "Sorry.....just had a question. Wont take long..." they just go right into the issue and know im fine with it.

Some jobs you are never really.....off. Not entirely. Id imagine being a campaign worker in election season is one of them.

The ultimate point here is that Bernie Sanders has made a lifelong ****ing career out of "fighting for the little guy" while being a raging hypocrite, and this is just the latest example.

Literally bases his entire campaign efforts around "pay the little man! **** corporations" and then does the exact opposite when he thinks he can get away with it when he's the one distributing the pay to people.

No, they didn't approve the Obama changes.


A smart person won't stop looking at it that way. A smart person recognizes that time is by far and away the most genuinely valuable resource one could ever have and there is not a close second place... and if you were so driven by money, could use said time to accumulate wealth in other ways and still have more time. Not that I am driven by wealth, I'm not... but I digress...

My last job I was working 80 hours on the regular and I had actually taken a significant pay cut per hour worked even though my take home pay went way up. 80+ hour work weeks on a routine, nearly every single week basis are not fun for anyone other than people with major daddy issues or they're obsessed with money and power. Again, I digress...

A smart person will look at it that way...

$15 hr x 40 hours a week x 52 weeks = ~$31,000 annually

If you worked someone 80 hours a week for $31,000, which is legal to do so, they're obviously making $7.50 an hour.

The entire premise of $15/ hr is that's what you're getting for your time invested. Let's not get into the semantics of salaried vs hourly.

The fact of the matter is he was not paying them $15 / hour for their work. He was paying them less. And now he is paying them that, but he's cut their hours as a result.

The short and skinny of the situation is that Bernie Sanders is a raging hypocrite and a lifelong political opportunist.

This is a man that was kicked off of a ****ing commune for being too lazy.


You and I know both damn good and well nobody is up there campaigning for 80 hour work weeks to make 30k a year.

They want $15 an hour for each hour they invest, regardless if they're salary or not.

[pastis]

What's the catch. Why would this not work here? Everyone is very adamant that it wouldn't. Why?

i dont know. im in favour of a big welfare state. thats why im against immigration and the current EU laws which allows free movement of persons within the EU (poland, bulgaria, romania etc pp). closed borders and welfare state or open norders and survival of the fittest.
But honestly, germany already had a better welfare state in the 19th century then the usa in the 21 century. so the welfare state has a long tradition here and developped over centuries. i dont think that this is possible in the usa. only to a lesser degree like universal healthcare. that you dont even have this is beyond understanding.

[Hawker]

i dont know. im in favour of a big welfare state. thats why im against immigration and the current EU laws which allows free movement of persons within the EU (poland, bulgaria, romania etc pp). closed borders and welfare state or open norders and survival of the fittest.
But honestly, germany already had a better welfare state in the 19th century then the usa in the 21 century. so the welfare state has a long tradition here and developped over centuries. i dont think that this is possible in the usa. only to a lesser degree like universal healthcare. that you dont even have this is beyond understanding.

Germany is a welfare state but still a capitalistic nation.

And they still offer private health insurance as an option.

[pastis]

Germany is a welfare state but still a capitalistic nation.

And they still offer private health insurance as an option.

yep. but i dont see the advantage. i have a public health insurence and everything is paid, dentis, hospital, emergency etc. My sister is a lawyer and therefore has a private health insurence. so she has the right, that the head physician makes the surgery or that she has a single room in the hospital. but thats it. she pays 300 a month i pay 150 a month

[Hawker]

yep. but i dont see the advantage. i have a public health insurence and everything is paid, dentis, hospital, emergency etc. My sister is a lawyer and therefore has a private health insurence. so she has the right, that the head physician makes the surgery or that she has a single room in the hospital. but thats it.

Sure - where I live (Australia/NZ). I would've had to wait a year for an operation I needed where with private health insurance it was less than week. Private health insurance is still a necessity.

[pastis]

Sure - where I live (Australia/NZ). I would've had to wait a year for an operation I needed where with private health insurance it was less than week. Private health insurance is still a necessity.

ok thats unfair imo..... i never faced any waiting problems.

are you infavor or against immigration?

[Hawker]

ok thats unfair imo..... i never faced any waiting problems.

are you infavor or against immigration?

I'm against illegal immigration and massive amounts of low/unskilled immigration.

I'm in favor of merit based immigration where you have to prove skills and prove english proficiency. That's the immigration system I used to get into Australia. And their immigration system is a major reason why they are a great country and why their (and others) welfare state works.

[coin24]

Sure - where I live (Australia/NZ). I would've had to wait a year for an operation I needed where with private health insurance it was less than week. Private health insurance is still a necessity.

That's for elective surgery. Anything emergency or critical and you would go straight in with the public/Medicare system.

[tpols]

I'm against illegal immigration and massive amounts of low/unskilled immigration.

I'm in favor of merit based immigration where you have to prove skills and prove english proficiency. That's the immigration system I used to get into Australia. And their immigration system is a major reason why they are a great country and why their (and others) welfare state works.


How the hell you gonna bail on USA for a welfare state, and then continually lobby for USA to not have any public healthcare?

:biggums:

cmon mate....

you're being ridiculous.

[Hawker]

That's for elective surgery. Anything emergency or critical and you would go straight in with the public/Medicare system.

Yeah - as determined by the government. I don't want to wait a year for "elective" surgery when I got a life to live. That's nonsense. I needed the surgery so it shouldn't be labelled as elective imo.

[Hawker]

How the hell you gonna bail on USA for a welfare state, and then continually lobby for USA to not have any public healthcare?

:biggums:

cmon mate....

you're being ridiculous.

I don't live in these countries because they are a welfare state. I live right next to the beach at the moment and the cities aren't full of trash. They are actually clean. Those have nothing to do with the welfare state.

I lobby for a strict immigration system like these two countries have. And NZ/Australia do nowhere near the medical research that the USA does which these two countries leach off of.

No free college here either btw. No capital gains. No estate tax in either country. Are you in favor of eliminating estate taxes an CGT? Oh and doubling the tax rate on 0-50k earners?

The health system where I live is $24 million dollars in debt. Even they can't afford it.

[tpols]

lol@ socialism:

think about it:

not only do we have a mandatory universal healthcare in germany, but we also have a mandatory unemployement insurence, work-accident insurence and nursingcare insurence. all costs are automatically deducted from your salary. and half of all insurence costs are paid by the employeur.

mandatory of 25 paid days of vacation (most people have 30)

if you are ill and cant work, the employeur has to pay for 6 weeks your salary. after 6 weeks - if you are still ill and cant work - the insurence pays you sick benefits up to 70% of your former salary (but max 3000 a month)

you cant be fired without any reason. you need a reason and to wait the legal period of notice. the legal period of notice is 4 weeks (working less than 6 month in the company) and an additional 4 weeks for every two years you worked at the company (but max length of 12 month for 20 years in the same company)

if you did not find a new job within the period of notice, the unemployement insurence pays you the first 6 month 67% of your former salary, then an additional 6 month 50%. if you are over 55 its extended to 18month.

max working 48h a week (exceptions possible if every hour over 48h is paid 50% more and enough resting time)


you cant compare germany organization and rule following to USA...

over here it is a wild wild west corruption mentality. Everybody is paid off. Germans follow rules and work together to make things better for everybody. They also dont have huge populations in the negative to support (yet... but they are being cucked) so its easier for them to come up with workable plans.

USA polticians dont care about crafting plans... they talk shit and take money.. thats it.

Trump is actually one of the only ones who has plans... he was already rich and powerful.

[Shogon]

USA polticians dont care about crafting plans... they talk shit and take money.. thats it.

This is true of probably over 99% of D.C.

Pathetic.

[pastis]

you cant compare germany organization and rule following to USA...

over here it is a wild wild west corruption mentality. Everybody is paid off. Germans follow rules and work together to make things better for everybody. They also dont have huge populations in the negative to support (yet... but they are being cucked) so its easier for them to come up with workable plans.

USA polticians dont care about crafting plans... they talk shit and take money.. thats it.

Trump is actually one of the only ones who has plans... he was already rich and powerful.

and this is why im against illegal immigration. the round about 2 mio illegal aliens who came since 2015 to germany are mostly unemployed because they are coming from countries where the education system is a mess. they simply dont have the tools for an industrial nation. the 2 mio refugees alone cost ca 40 billion € a year. Add to this a massive poverty immigration from eastern europe. our cities are getting more dirty, you see everywhere gangs of young unemployed arabs and africans. the criminality rate, especially theft, robbery, rape, murder and social security fraude are skyrocketing.

the left destroyed withing a decade everything what germany built in 150 years

[tpols]

and this is why im against illegal immigration. the round about 2 mio illegal aliens who came since 2015 to germany are mostly unemployed because they are coming from countries where the education system is a mess. they simply dont have the tools for an industrial nation. the 2 mio refugees alone cost ca 40 billion € a year. Add to this a massive poverty immigration from eastern europe. our cities are getting more dirty, you see everywhere gangs of young unemployed arabs and africans. the criminality rate, especially theft, robbery, rape, murder and social security fraude are skyrocketing.

the left destroyed withing a decade everything what germany built in 150 years



yes... over here you are not allowed to say that.

if so, you will be branded a "racist" for pointing out the obvious.

im sure you face the same problem. if you speak out in the manner you just did you'll be labeled a nazi.

the rich oligarch elite across all nations have crafted a media to forbid anybody from speaking out against their globalist money agenda.

sounds crazy but its true...

[pastis]

yes... over here you are not allowed to say that.

if so, you will be branded a "racist" for pointing out the obvious.

im sure you face the same problem. if you speak out in the manner you just did you'll be labeled a nazi.

the rich oligarch elite across all nations have crafted a media to forbid anybody from speaking out against their globalist money agenda.

sounds crazy but its true...

exactly. and dont forget how former left parties turned more and more liberal ( in the european sense of liberal). the social democrats in germany should only do politics for german labour. yet the social democrats voted for the EU enlargement to eastern europe and for free movement of persons within the EU. consequence: massive poverty immigration, fewer apparments on the housing market so that property owner can higher the renting prices. more and more employeur are getting out of the collective agreements because they know they can get cheap labour from poland etc. same for the dems in the usa. they were against immigration to protect the worker. now everything changed and on their agenda are only: immigration, feminism, lgbt and BLM

[tpols]

exactly. and dont forget how former left parties turned more and more liberal ( in the european sense of liberal). the social democrats in germany should only do politics for german labour. yet the social democrats voted for the EU enlargement to eastern europe and for free movement of persons within the EU. consequence: massive poverty immigration, fewer apparments on the housing market so that property owner can higher the renting prices. more and more employeur are getting out of the collective agreements because they know they can get cheap labour from poland etc. same for the dems in the usa. they were against immigration to protect the worker. now everything changed and on their agenda are only: immigration, feminism, genderism and BLM


More people under your money umbrella means more money and control for you.

It's bad for us, and good for them... to a point.

Eventually it will all collapse as its done many times throughout history when short term greed outweighs long term viability.

only then will they be forced to correct it to have a stable system for which to store their wealth... it is meaningless in a broken society.

[Hawker]

exactly. and dont forget how former left parties turned more and more liberal ( in the european sense of liberal). the social democrats in germany should only do politics for german labour. yet the social democrats voted for the EU enlargement to eastern europe and for free movement of persons within the EU. consequence: massive poverty immigration, fewer apparments on the housing market so that property owner can higher the renting prices. more and more employeur are getting out of the collective agreements because they know they can get cheap labour from poland etc. same for the dems in the usa. they were against immigration to protect the worker. now everything changed and on their agenda are only: immigration, feminism, lgbt and BLM

There are benefits to living on an island.

Sucks that's what's going on. Its for the "Greater good" though so you'll just have to suck it up.

[pastis]

More people under your money umbrella means more money and control for you.

It's bad for us, and good for them... to a point.

Eventually it will all collapse as its done many times throughout history when short term greed outweighs long term viability.

only then will they be forced to correct it to have a stable system for which to store their wealth... it is meaningless in a broken society.

we are on our way already. the welfare state is securing the social peace in germany. if one day the welfare state collapses.... there will be war. the left parties in germany (social democrats, ecologists etc) are now promoting to change the citizin law. becoming a german citizin should be much faster and easier from their point of view. its clear what they want: legalizing all those illlegals and counting on their votes for election

[pastis]

btw, what also pisses me off: im forced to pay 18€ a month for our public channels in tv and radio. so called "democratic contribution" to protect neutral/unbiased and independant press work and relations in contrast to the usa e.g. where you have a war between private channels like fox and cnn msnbc etc. who are in the hand of billionairs with their own agenda
result: public channels are inviting only liberal parties and always hating on the Afd (conservative anti immigration party)

[tpols]

we are on our way already. the welfare state is securing the social peace in germany. if one day the welfare state collapses.... there will be war. the left parties in germany (social democrats, ecologists etc) are now promoting to change the citizin law. becoming a german citizin should be much faster and easier from their point of view. its clear what they want: legalizing all those illlegals and counting on their votes for election


shit... i can get EU membership through birth right irish ancestry.

I wonder if i can immigrate to yall and further corrupt things...

:D

Its like a dice roll between which country will collapse first.

[pastis]

shit... i can get EU membership through birth right irish ancestry.

I wonder if i can immigrate to yall and further corrupt things...

:D

Its like a dice roll between which country will collapse first.

get your irish citizenship and then you are free to choose your country within the EU due to free movement of persons:lol :cheers:

[tpols]

get your irish citizenship and then you are free to choose your country within the EU due to free movement of persons:lol :cheers:


thanks brother.

i hear you guys have a beer at lunch maybe one day well grab one in the far future.

it will be a long journey.

[pastis]

thanks brother.

i hear you guys have a beer at lunch maybe one day well grab one in the far future.

it will be a long journey.

haha. in bavaria its common to get weizen-beer with brezels and weisswurst already for breakfast on sundays in the summer.

[https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/weizen-bier-mit-weisswurst-8179062.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

The ultimate point here is that Bernie Sanders has made a lifelong ****ing career out of "fighting for the little guy" while being a raging hypocrite, and this is just the latest example.

Literally bases his entire campaign efforts around "pay the little man! **** corporations" and then does the exact opposite when he thinks he can get away with it when he's the one distributing the pay to people.

No, they didn't approve the Obama changes.


A smart person won't stop looking at it that way. A smart person recognizes that time is by far and away the most genuinely valuable resource one could ever have and there is not a close second place... and if you were so driven by money, could use said time to accumulate wealth in other ways and still have more time. Not that I am driven by wealth, I'm not... but I digress...

My last job I was working 80 hours on the regular and I had actually taken a significant pay cut per hour worked even though my take home pay went way up. 80+ hour work weeks on a routine, nearly every single week basis are not fun for anyone other than people with major daddy issues or they're obsessed with money and power. Again, I digress...

A smart person will look at it that way...

$15 hr x 40 hours a week x 52 weeks = ~$31,000 annually

If you worked someone 80 hours a week for $31,000, which is legal to do so, they're obviously making $7.50 an hour.

The entire premise of $15/ hr is that's what you're getting for your time invested. Let's not get into the semantics of salaried vs hourly.

The fact of the matter is he was not paying them $15 / hour for their work. He was paying them less. And now he is paying them that, but he's cut their hours as a result.

The short and skinny of the situation is that Bernie Sanders is a raging hypocrite and a lifelong political opportunist.

This is a man that was kicked off of a ****ing commune for being too lazy.


You and I know both damn good and well nobody is up there campaigning for 80 hour work weeks to make 30k a year.

They want $15 an hour for each hour they invest, regardless if they're salary or not.

Ignoring the difference between salaried and hourly employees to get the worst possible number hourly just seems misleading.

My job requires I be on call to some extent at all times. A lot of salaried jobs do. Doesnt mean I should be logging every call, early morning, late night, quick check on an alarm going off, and odd hours text and email. Not every job has bankers hours. Generally....when you have a better job it asks more of you. You get high enough up you are never really off. You might be asleep....but if work requires your attention you wake your ass up. That isnt truly being off work in the sense that hourly people see it. And I have like 110 people loosely under me at the most...no more than 12-20 direct reports. I cant imagine the demands on people with jobs that matter to large numbers of people.

As you may remember....im not even in favor of the high minimum wage. Im in favor of people having standards for themselves and getting wages up by refusing to do work for money they find insulting. I dont think anyone should be paid 8 bucks an hour for work....but I dont know what do about them apparently finding it acceptable....which is exactly what being told the pay is 8 dollars and then shaking a mans hand and coming to do that work is saying.

As with most things I see the points from both sides.....its just hard to mix salaried employees into it because theres usually a reason they are on salary. The job isnt as neat and tight as a schedule will allow. Someone working a campaign might be making signs at home watching Family Guy. Riding on a plane to the next city discussing issues.....having a lunch meeting. ****ing the wife of an important newspaper editor who just wants to see her happy and needs her to get some 24 year old dick from time to time since he has a bad back. Never know. Its an all the time job. How do you pay someone for all the time? You dont. You two agree what the base salary is with certain conditions and you go to work. I dont even wanna know what I make hourly considering how often im on call and if you couldnt account for my bonus and various other ways of compensation.

I bet the president makes less hourly than top end nurses, welders, or electricians considering that the president is on call from the second he swears in till he second the next guy does. Doesnt mean hes underpaid. Nobody pulled a fast one. He knows what the job is and not only agreed to do it....begged the public to have it. But....how valuable is it going forward to be a former president?

You cant put a price on some jobs because you cant quantify the total return on your service. For a young person looking to enter this world how valuable is it to work on a top political campaign? Its almost like being an unpaid NCAA athlete.

Theres always complications and we(meaning both sides) want to boil things down to the shortest version because the public doesnt have the attention span for any point that doesnt fit on a ****ing meme.

The people thoughtful enough to really investigate the claims of a politician only do it because they already have a side and want something to agree or argue with.....

These things...simple boiled down things....are aimed at the people who vote on a whim.

The people willing to think these things through decided who to support long ago.

"Livable wage! 15 an hour!"

and

"Bernie doesnt pay 15 an hour!"

are both incomplete arguments and I feel like you know that.

[bladefd]

I bet the president makes less hourly than top end nurses, welders, or electricians considering that the president is on call from the second he swears in till he second the next guy does. Doesnt mean hes underpaid. Nobody pulled a fast one. He knows what the job is and not only agreed to do it....begged the public to have it. But....how valuable is it going forward to be a former president?


President makes $6.50/hr if we intentionally try to use the misleading argument of shogun since being a president is a 24hr job and they make 400k/yr.. UNDERPAID JOB, UNDERPAID JOB!! :lol

[qrich]

President makes $6.50/hr if we intentionally try to use the misleading argument of the person quoted since being a president is a 24hr job and they make 400k/yr.. UNDERPAID JOB, UNDERPAID JOB!! :lol

Shit, let me work 24/7 and make "400k" but have to pay for absolutely nothing.

Underpaid my ass :roll:

[Shogon]

Ignoring the difference between salaried and hourly employees to get the worst possible number hourly just seems misleading.

Are you for real? It's not getting the "worst possible number." It's... what it is.

Would you rather have a job that pays 55,000 a year in which you have to work 70 hours a week or a job that pays 45,000 a year in which you have to work 30 hours a week? lol, the ****?


My job requires I be on call to some extent at all times. A lot of salaried jobs do. Doesnt mean I should be logging every call, early morning, late night, quick check on an alarm going off, and odd hours text and email. Not every job has bankers hours. Generally....when you have a better job it asks more of you. You get high enough up you are never really off. You might be asleep....but if work requires your attention you wake your ass up. That isnt truly being off work in the sense that hourly people see it. And I have like 110 people loosely under me at the most...no more than 12-20 direct reports. I cant imagine the demands on people with jobs that matter to large numbers of people.

Interruptions wasn't what I was talking about. I'm talking about genuinely having to sink 70-80+ hours into a place of employment.


As you may remember....im not even in favor of the high minimum wage. Im in favor of people having standards for themselves and getting wages up by refusing to do work for money they find insulting. I dont think anyone should be paid 8 bucks an hour for work....but I dont know what do about them apparently finding it acceptable....which is exactly what being told the pay is 8 dollars and then shaking a mans hand and coming to do that work is saying.

Yep.


As with most things I see the points from both sides.....its just hard to mix salaried employees into it because theres usually a reason they are on salary. The job isnt as neat and tight as a schedule will allow.

That's part of it but another huge ass reason that most jobs that are salaried... are salaried... is because of the ability of the employer to exploit the employee for significantly more hours without having to worry about overtime. Not all, of course. But it's a large chunk if not most.


Someone working a campaign might be making signs at home watching Family Guy. Riding on a plane to the next city discussing issues.....having a lunch meeting. ****ing the wife of an important newspaper editor who just wants to see her happy and needs her to get some 24 year old dick from time to time since he has a bad back. Never know. Its an all the time job. How do you pay someone for all the time? You dont. You two agree what the base salary is with certain conditions and you go to work. I dont even wanna know what I make hourly considering how often im on call and if you couldnt account for my bonus and various other ways of compensation.

If you're getting a few interruptions that don't last long per day, that's nothing... but when you start logging in 70+ hours a week, that's a huge ass problem... and you SHOULD be examining what you are getting paid per hour at that point. It's impossible to know and comment without the specifics of your situation on a weekly and annual basis.


I bet the president makes less hourly than top end nurses, welders, or electricians considering that the president is on call from the second he swears in till he second the next guy does. Doesnt mean hes underpaid. Nobody pulled a fast one. He knows what the job is and not only agreed to do it....begged the public to have it. But....how valuable is it going forward to be a former president?

The president is most definitely underpaid during his time in office. The level of responsibility is unbearable for 400k a year unless they're a complete psychopath with absolutely no regard in their heart for anyone other than themselves. Otherwise, the stress would kill a man. It's gotta be near unbearable.


You cant put a price on some jobs because you cant quantify the total return on your service. For a young person looking to enter this world how valuable is it to work on a top political campaign? Its almost like being an unpaid NCAA athlete.

If it were that valuable, the campaigns wouldn't pay anyone and they'd just have nothing but interns. The level of work required for some of those people is more than the experienced gained would be worth. Plus, a lot of those jobs require people already having experience.


Theres always complications and we(meaning both sides) want to boil things down to the shortest version because the public doesnt have the attention span for any point that doesnt fit on a ****ing meme.

The people thoughtful enough to really investigate the claims of a politician only do it because they already have a side and want something to agree or argue with.....

These things...simple boiled down things....are aimed at the people who vote on a whim.

The people willing to think these things through decided who to support long ago.

"Livable wage! 15 an hour!"

and

"Bernie doesnt pay 15 an hour!"

are both incomplete arguments and I feel like you know that.

The minimum wage prices people that don't have experience completely out of the market, amongst other things. The minimum wage isn't a good thing. Life isn't fair.

[Shogon]

President makes $6.50/hr if we intentionally try to use the misleading argument of shogun since being a president is a 24hr job and they make 400k/yr.. UNDERPAID JOB, UNDERPAID JOB!! :lol

First of all that's not true. It's a 24 hour job in the sense that they could be interrupted at any time, but to pretend the president never gets any down time is bullshit... Trump takes his fat ass golfing all the time. Obama golfed a lot as well. And so on and so forth.

Presidents making 400k is most definitely an underpaid position. The level of responsibility and stress and tough decisions you have to make is unbearable and not worth 400k a year.


Shit, let me work 24/7 and make "400k" but have to pay for absolutely nothing.

Underpaid my ass :roll:

It's most definitely an underpaid position.



And then... they become overpaid once they leave office and start writing books and making appearances. But while in office? 400k for THAT job? HELL ****ing no. 400k is so far underpaid it's like lmao.

Do you even realize the rash of shit Donald Trump, a guy who is already a billionaire, is getting for that 400k a year? Deserved criticism or not, you think that money is really worth it for him to have that job? Hahaha.

For the record, Trump is donating his salary to various federal departments. So he's working "for free" while in office.

[qrich]

It's most definitely an underpaid position.



And then... they become overpaid once they leave office and start writing books and making appearances. But while in office? 400k for THAT job? HELL ****ing no. 400k is so far underpaid it's like lmao.

Do you even realize the rash of shit Donald Trump, a guy who is already a billionaire, is getting for that 400k a year? Deserved criticism or not, you think that money is really worth it for him to have that job? Hahaha.

For the record, Trump is donating his salary to various federal departments. So he's working "for free" while in office.

Sure, the salary in itself may be low as compared to the work.

But then when you throw in the fact that, I highly doubt, any President has had to pay for anything out of pocket, I don't view that as "underpaid"

My whole point

[Shogon]

Sure, the salary in itself may be low as compared to the work.

You literally just disagreed with your whole point...

[qrich]

You literally just disagreed with your whole point...

Salary doesn't take benefits into consideration.

And when benefits include paying for absolutely nothing, it plays a part.

[Shogon]

Salary doesn't take benefits into consideration.

And when benefits include paying for absolutely nothing, it plays a part.

Every president ever has been massively underpaid while in office. All we can do is agree to disagree at this point.

[CelticBaller]

**** socialism