How many rings if Lebron never teams up?

[3ball]

I say zero because skillsets of Lebron's caliber (Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc) can't win rings

At least not without extra supporting talent to offset the non-championship teamwork inherent in that style of play

[Mask the Embiid]

How many rings would Jordan have if Pippen had a career-ending injury in 89?



wow 89...thats 30 years ago....next year it will be 4 decades ago....hmmmmmm should there be daily threads on people who played 4 decades ago?

[RRR3]

872

[RealSkipBayless]

How many rings does MJ win if he doesn

[SouBeachTalents]

How many rings if Jordan plays in the 80's against the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons? Or the last 20 years against the Lakers, Spurs, Warriors?

[imdaman99]

How many rings does he get if he gets help from an elite #2 that would accentuate his game in every way? Imagine if he had a Pippen? :eek:

[3ball]

Magic won rings but that's the problem with playing with another top 5 player - one could easily say those rings are Kareem's... Or in 1988, Worthy was the 1st option and FMVP

So Magic had the extra supporting talent to win that way

But I'd argue that he actually wasn't that ball-dominant and played off his teammates very well, which is why the Lakers were #1 in assists every year

Ultimately, the "dribble-dribble-dribble, PNR" skillset can't win without extra supporting talent (colluding) to offset the non-championship teamwork inherent in that style

[HylianNightmare]

Over the same span i think he still would win 3 or 4

[3ball]

Over the same span i think he still would win 3 or 4
Lebron strongly disagrees, which is why he team-hopped with "the decision" in the summer of 2010

[RRR3]

Lebron strongly disagrees, which is why he team-hopped with "the decision" in the summer of 2010
LeBron would have won more if he had teams that were intelligently built around him his whole career.

The recipe for success with LeBron

Scoring guard 2nd option who can shoot
3+D SG
LeBron
3+D PF
Athetic rim running defensive center

[egokiller]

Looking at MJ and Lebron’s offensive and defensive abilities which can only be done by someone who watched both play, it’s clear that if you put them both on teams that aren’t good (same teams against the same opponents during the same time frame) MJ comes out ahead. He’s just that much better at the overall game of basketball hands down. :sleeping

At the end of the day there’s nothing that can be done to change the fact that I got to enjoy watching MJ go 6/6 and then years later had to settle for watching a wannabe go 3/9. The jealousy from others over the 6/6 experience is most evident on this board and the tears never seem to taste less salty as years pass.

[Vino24]

How many rings does MJ win if Bird didnt becomes a crippled and Celtics future stars didn

[3ball]

LeBron would have won more if he had teams that were intelligently built around him his whole career.

The recipe for success with LeBron

Scoring guard 2nd option who can shoot
3+D SG
LeBron
3+D PF
Athetic rim running defensive center


That's the problem - Lebron is the only player where the constant narrative is that he needs shooters - no one else is talked about this way continuously

It shows a hole in his skillset that he's so reliant on shooters - he's only elite as the primary ball-handler, so the only kind of player that fits with him is a shooter - this is a weakness, not a strength

for example, mj's 2nd option couldn't shoot worth a lick, but that wasn't a problem because MJ could be the shooter himself and play off Pip.. or he could be the primary ball-handler and set up Paxson or Kerr .. this versatility made MJ's teams tougher to defend than lebron's teams

Thanks for demonstrating the Achilles heel of lebron's game (too ball-dominant, so he's too reliant on one type of player, i.e shooters)





The recipe for success with LeBron


^^^ Depends what you consider success - the approach you stated only went 2/4 in Miami including record loss and the goat choke... 3/9 overall .. That's not "success" compared to guys like MJ, Duncan, Kobe, etc

Ultimately, Lebron's weaker championship record didn't reflect a lack of personal or supporting talent, but an approach to the game that didn't yield the best teams of his era.

This approach includes not developing the ability/experience playing to the strength of other facilitators, by mixing in sufficient off-ball play into his game.

This approach also includes low-assist teams that result from him being a 2nd player on the floor with point guard-level ball-time, which reduced teammates' ball-time and assists compared to their play in 1-point guard lineups.

Overall, his ball-dominant approach as a frontcourt player didn't result in the best offenses of his era or brand of ball, which is why his teams struggled on the championship level

[tpols]

How many rings if Jordan plays in the 80's against the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons? Or the last 20 years against the Lakers, Spurs, Warriors?


Hed have no problem with the geriatric spurs that's for damn sure.

[Manny98]

1-9

[bullettooth]

1/9

FTFY.

Also, I agree. 1 ring at best is what LeBron would end up with.

[BarberSchool]

How many rings would Jordan have if Pippen had a career-ending injury in 89?



wow 89...thats 30 years ago....next year it will be 4 decades ago....hmmmmmm should there be daily threads on people who played 4 decades ago?If for no other reason than to respect the greatest player to ever play the game, and irritate ticks like you ?

FUGG YEEAAAAH NUCCAAAAAAAA !!!!!

[superduper]

1-9

You're right, he is 1*/9!!

My nicca Fanny98 :rockon:

[superduper]

Hey OP, zero.

The answer is zero.

[paksat]

i'd get a laugh out of bron switching places with jordan

gl buddy, ain't no wade/kyrie/bosh all in their primes anymore to take the load off. Pippen ain't worth a fck 1on1, who you gonna give the ball to? Rodman? :roll:

inb4 bron stans claim someone else on the team was a nightmare at scoring but never got the chance to show it cuz mj ball hogged or some other random bs :lol

[Manny98]

LeBron would literally 10 peat if he had Phil Jackson as a coach and Pippen by his side

[superduper]

LeBron would literally 10 peat if he had Phil Jackson as a coach and Pippen by his side

He would get Phil fired in 2 months like he has every other coach in his life.

LeGOAT would NEVER accept less $tats for the betterment of the team, stop trolling.

[Duderonomy]

He would get Phil fired in 2 months like he has every other coach in his life.

LeGOAT would NEVER accept less $tats for the betterment of the team, stop trolling.
LeBron after every 3 years when his team no longer has 2 all NBA teammates in their prime.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/539/DyqSKoaX4AATc2G.jpg

[bullettooth]

He would get Phil fired in 2 months like he has every other coach in his life.

LeGOAT would NEVER accept less $tats for the betterment of the team, stop trolling.

The funny thing is, his stats have never measured up to MJ anyway and he still got his coaches fired.

[sdot_thadon]

One for each thread Op makes about him.

[Hey Yo]

Hed have no problem with the geriatric spurs that's for damn sure.
You referring to the Spurs backcourt of 2001?

[PickernRoller]

Probably zero, at most 1.

[Sportal]

[QUOTE=Vino24]How many rings does MJ win if Bird didnt becomes a crippled and Celtics future stars didn

[Spurs m8]

Came here to watch the Bron stan meltdowns.

Did not disappoint

[3ball]

How many rings if Jordan plays in the 80's against the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, Pistons? Or the last 20 years against the Lakers, Spurs, Warriors?
Considering the bulls became arguably the goat team, I'm sure they would compete evenly with the 80's Celtics and Lakers, or likely have a winning record against them

Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly/effectively.. But Lebron failed to compete effectively because he's 2-5 against the Spurs/Warriors, including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

[Vino24]

Lol, they've dodged this entirely. Oi 3nuts, how many rings does MJ win if Len Bias didn't like Coke? You like living on hypothetical questions so much.
Still dodging it :roll:

[3ball]

Lol, they've dodged this entirely. Oi 3nuts, how many rings does MJ win if Len Bias didn't like Coke? You like living on hypothetical questions so much.
We're all humans with deductive ability, so we can deduce what would happen

It took Jordan 2-3 years to elevate rookies Grant/Pippen/BJ into champions in 1991... By that time, Bird was basically done and had missed significant time with injury... So Bias would merely replace Bird, not add to him.

Considering the bulls became arguably the goat team, I'm sure they would compete evenly with the 80's Celtics/Lakers, or the Bias Celtics, and likely have a winning record against them

Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly/effectively.. But Lebron failed to compete effectively because he's 2-5 against the Spurs/Warriors, including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.

[pauk]

I say zero because skillsets of Lebron's caliber (Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc) can't win rings

At least not without extra supporting talent to offset the non-championship teamwork inherent in that style of play
https://media3.giphy.com/media/Uei6ZbnFZRP3O/giphy.gif

[3ball]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/Uei6ZbnFZRP3O/giphy.gif
Lebron's skillset is the same as Nash/CP3, except he's taller and a worse shooter

Again, ball-dominant skillsets like Lebron, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc. can't win rings.

At least not without extra supporting talent to offset the non-championship teamwork inherent in that style of play

[GimmeThat]

Stephen Curry is a back to back 2-times MVP

so objectively, it's got nothing to do with whether Lebron teams up or not. it's as if you were told NBA championships are not valued at the moment, hindering younger players development, but only for those who took advantage of taking their talents off the basketball court.

73-9

[Gileraracer]

Lebron without a superteam? Zero rings and thats a fact

[Manny98]

Lebron's skillset is the same as Nash/CP3, except he's taller and a worse shooter

Again, ball-dominant skillsets like Lebron, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc. can't win rings.

At least not without extra supporting talent to offset the non-championship teamwork inherent in that style of play
How did LeBron win in 2013 with the lowest scoring second option of all time

[SouBeachTalents]

How did LeBron win in 2013 with the lowest scoring second option of all time
Because he wasn't the lowest scoring second option of all time

[Gileraracer]

How did LeBron win in 2013 with the lowest scoring second option of all time

He had 4 other players scoring in double figures + Ray Allen saved his career

Also 6 players on his own team had a better FG% than Lebron

[PickernRoller]

He had 4 other players scoring in double figures + Ray Allen saved his career

Also 6 players on his own team had a better FG% than Lebron

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

He had 4 other players scoring in double figures + Ray Allen saved his career

Also 6 players on his own team had a better FG% than Lebron
Outside of the Ray Allen part, literally everything else you wrote is completely wrong :lol

[plowking]

The funny thing is, his stats have never measured up to MJ anyway and he still got his coaches fired.

They have.

If you look at their best 10 year stretch in the playoffs, Lebron's raw stats are better than Jordan's.

[Gileraracer]

Outside of the Ray Allen part, literally everything else you wrote is completely wrong :lol

Ah okay.

1)
Wade 19.6 PPG
Bosh 11.9 PPG
Allen 10.6 PPG
Chalmers 10.6 PPG

2)
Lebron: .447
Bosh .462
Wade .476
Anthony .500
Allen .543
Miller .591
Andersen .727




"completely wrong" :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

Ah okay.

1)
Wade 19.6 PPG
Bosh 11.9 PPG
Allen 10.6 PPG
Chalmers 10.6 PPG

2)
Lebron: .447
Bosh .462
Wade .476
Anthony .500
Allen .543
Miller .591
Andersen .727




"completely wrong" :confusedshrug:
Nigguh you didn't even hint at talking about the Finals. Obviously he wouldn't have claimed that Wade's 20 ppg was the lowest scoring 2nd option output of all time if he was referring to the Finals

C'mon bruh :lol

[Manny98]

Because he wasn't the lowest scoring second option of all time
Only Duncan in 03 & Hakeem in 94 won with a worse second option than 2013 Wade

[SouBeachTalents]

Only Duncan in 03 & Hakeem in 94 won with a worse second option than 2013 Wade
'75 Barry too

[Gileraracer]

Nigguh you didn't even hint at talking about the Finals. Obviously he wouldn't have claimed that Wade's 20 ppg was the lowest scoring 2nd option output of all time if he was referring to the Finals

C'mon bruh :lol

"How did LeBron win in 2013 with the lowest scoring second option of all time"

Where do you usually win rings? 1st round? :facepalm

[Real14]

No rings at all.

[FKAri]

You mean if he had no one to drag him down? Sheeeeit. He'd probably win like 5-6 rings every season.

[Real14]

You mean if he had no one to drag him down? Sheeeeit. He'd probably win like 5-6 rings every season.
:biggums:

[Wally450]

No one wins any rings without teaming up. Jordan included.

[3ball]

No one wins any rings without teaming up. Jordan included.
Jordan never teamed up - he built a sustainable, organic champion, like David Griffin said he wanted to do (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471099) before LeCancer joined his team

David Griffin proved me right with his recent comments and Lebron fans simply refuse to understand his skillset shortcomings and the subsequent effect on teams

[FKAri]

Jordan never teamed up - he built a sustainable, organic champion, like David Griffin said he wanted to do (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471099) before LeCancer joined his team

David Griffin proved me right with his recent comments and Lebron fans simply refuse to understand his skillset shortcomings and the subsequent effect on teams
There is nothing sustainable or organic about receiving steroid injections in the ass from Tim Grover. It's why he needed so many "breaks". His ass is more beat up than Jenna Jameson's. It looks worse than a heroin addict's forearm. Still took it like a champ tho and for that he has, not my respect but my bemusement.

[72-10]

No one wins any rings without any help. Jordan included.

:applause:

[LostCause]

Honestly speaking, if the Heatles never happened he'd probably have 1

The Spurs would've been the Spurs regardless what the Heat or LeBron were doing. Same with the Warriors, those teams built organically. The Rockets as we know them wouldn't exist but the Thunder definitely would've been champions and they might not let go of Harden

Thinking about it, there really haven't been many teams built in response to LeBron colluding. At least not teams anyone remembers (ie the Brooklyn Nets, the Dwight/ Kobe Lakers etc). The biggest threats and the most dominant teams were all going to happen anyway (Spurs, Thunder, Warriors)

[The Iron Fist]

Honestly speaking, if the Heatles never happened he'd probably have 1

The Spurs would've been the Spurs regardless what the Heat or LeBron were doing. Same with the Warriors, those teams built organically. The Rockets as we know them wouldn't exist but the Thunder definitely would've been champions and they might not let go of Harden

Thinking about it, there really haven't been many teams built in response to LeBron colluding. At least not teams anyone remembers (ie the Brooklyn Nets, the Dwight/ Kobe Lakers etc). The biggest threats and the most dominant teams were all going to happen anyway (Spurs, Thunder, Warriors)
So we could apply the

[Kiddlovesnets]

He could actually win in a weak year, ie 2012 and 2015, but given his Finals record I