What player-type is the highest caliber skillset?

[3ball]

The wing player-type is associated with the most clutch and winning.. and shooting, including catch-and-shoot.

[superduper]

I actually take offense to you classifying Bran the same as Nash/CP3. Those two actually had skill and were able to have long lasting all time great level careers while being 6'1.

Meanwhile if Bran was 6'1 he would be the GOAT UPS delivery driver.

[DaHeezy]

3ball. Just when I thought you were a mindless numbskull some normalcy comes out of you

[3ball]

I actually take offense to you classifying Bran the same as Nash/CP3. Those two actually had skill and were able to have long lasting all time great level careers while being 6'1.

Meanwhile if Bran was 6'1 he would be the GOAT UPS delivery driver.
It's admirable that Nash and Cp3 were great players

But their skillset is the same as Lebron's - they simply didn't get to form super-teams like he did

Similar to lebron, their ball-dominant skillsets infact can't win, and needs extra talent to offset the weaker teamwork of that style.. lebron colluded to get the extra talent, and they didn't.. it's that simple - so he doesn't need to be 6'1" like them - he just needs to never collude - he'd be ringless like them if he never colluded

[DaHeezy]

It's admirable that Nash and Cp3 were great players

But their skillset is the same as Lebron's - they simply didn't get to form super-teams like he did

Similar to lebron, their ball-dominant skillsets infact can't win, and needs extra talent to offset the weaker teamwork of that style.. lebron colluded to get the extra talent, and they didn't.. it's that simple - so he doesn't need to be 6'1" like them - he just needs to never collude - he'd be ringless like them if he never colluded

Then you post this and change my mind back

[SouBeachTalents]

Add Russell and it's the centers

[KobesFinger]

What do you mean "organic?"

[3ball]

Then you post this and change my mind back


Lebron has a Nash/CP3 skillset except he's taller and a worse shooter

And colluded....

Where am I wrong?

And it's a good thing he colluded because he was ringless like Nash/CP3 before he did

Similar to lebron, their ball-dominant skillsets infact can't win, and needs extra talent to offset the weaker teamwork of that style.. lebron colluded to get the extra talent, and they didn't.. he'd be ringless like them if he never colluded

[3ball]

Add Russell and it's the centers
I probably should've mentioned that we're talking 3-pointer basketball, modern era only

Spacing and good team offense was impossible under 2-pointer basketball, so a 1-way defender could dominate and win the most .. but the 3-point line provided spacing and allowed team offense to thrive - this allowed a 2-way player like Michael to dominate and win the most..

team.ortg skyrocketed when the 3-point line was instituted.. it made players stand further from the hoop
.

[3ball]

What do you mean "organic?"
Not teaming up with another star via trade or planned free agency (colluding), or demanding to.play somewhere (Magic/Kareem)

[Uncle Drew]

Weren't you retired?

[KobesFinger]

Not teaming up with another star via trade or planned free agency (colluding), or demanding to.play somewhere (Magic/Kareem)

Fair enough. What do you think of John Stockton?

[3ball]

Weren't you retired?
Im semi-retired.. like a player-coach

Did you vote in the poll?.. The reality is that players with mostly point guard skillsets can't be goat (i.e. Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden, etc)

They mostly turn teammates into play-finishers or spot-up shooters, so they can't elevate players or a team like other player types

The "spot-up shooter" result for teammates doesn't yield the best teams or teamwork and needs extra talent to offset the weaker teamwork and reach a championship level

Otoh, the historical record shows that the off-ball wing skillset results in the most rings (MJ, Bird, Kawhi, Dirk, Kobe, KD, Curry), the best teams, and the most organic teamwork

[RRR3]

Dirk a wing :roll:

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

What do you think of John Stockton?


^^^ he's yet another example of how the the Nash/Lebron/Stockton/CP3 ball-dominant skillset

<<<<<<

the MJ/Kawhi/Bird/Kobe/Dirk/KD/Curry off-ball, catch-and-shoot, catch-and-score skillset.

[RRR3]

Kobe off-ball lmaooooooooooo

[3ball]

Kobe off-ball lmaooooooooooo
He had the capability to play off-ball and frequently did - that allowed Bosh to thrive, I mean Pau..

So he wasn't limited to only dominating as a ball-handler - he could be dominant in all areas of scoring, so that helped him fit with more player types and have better teams

The common thread in the "wing" player type is great catch-and-shoot ability (allowing them to fit with ball-handlers and not "need shooters" all the time like Bron)... This off-ball skillset facilitates ball movement and allows the best teamwork/juggernaut teams

Like, why did Curry win 70 with Klay/Dray, while lebron couldn't even win 60 with Kyrie/Love??? The on-paper talent was equal, but apparently Curry plays a superior way (off-ball and on-ball, not just on-ball)

[RRR3]

Kobe literally turned Nash into a spot up shooter.

[3ball]

Kobe literally turned Nash into a spot up shooter.
Both were spot-up shooters by then and at the end

[RRR3]

Both were spot-up shooters by then and at the end
:biggums:

Kobe a spot up shooter? In 2013?

You’re braindead.

[3ball]

:biggums:

Kobe a spot up shooter? In 2013?

You’re braindead.
He was done and that was his best role

I know he still averaged a lot in 2013, but he was done and couldn't win anymore - he couldn't win since 2011 tbh... however, there was no 26-year old goat like AD to save him like Bron has

[RRR3]

Kobe was not done in 2013, you’re a complete dumbass.

[3ball]

Kobe was not done in 2013, you’re a complete dumbass.
I know, he was done in 2011

He was getting by on pure skill by 2013, but running on fumes .. that was his time to "Carmelo" it and latch on to a contender for a couple more rings... as a sacrificing, spot-up-shooter

[RRR3]

Your stupidity is staggering. I bow down to your dumbassery :bowdown:

[DaHeezy]

3ball tried to be normal and his thread is falling apart :roll:

[RRR3]

3ball tried to be normal and his thread is falling apart :roll:
Dirk da wing :roll:

Kobe Korver :roll:

[3ball]

Your stupidity is staggering. I bow down to your dumbassery :bowdown:
Which players are better?

Point guards like Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)

Wings like MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)

The reason you won't answer the above is because it proves me right and you the dumbassery .. so carry on... MJ had the higher caliber skillset and lebron's is inferior, hence 3/9

[DaHeezy]

Dirk da wing :roll:

Kobe Korver :roll:


:lol
And he still couldn't hide his agenda to bash Lebron

What a mental midget

[RRR3]

error! Error! *bleep bloop* SYSTEM OVERLOAD....unable to compute....*reposts the OP*
:roll:

[3ball]

:lol
And he still couldn't hide his agenda to bash Lebron

What a mental midget
Which players are better?

Point guards like Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)

Wings like MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)

You can't answer.. but thanks for posting itt .

[DaHeezy]

Which players are better?

Point guards like Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)

Wings like MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)

You can't answer.. but thanks for posting itt .

3ball with the deflection!!!
Out of bounds. Still my ball :lol

[3ball]

No midrange game for:

Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)


Great mid-range game for:

MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)


So it's all about mid-range, off-ball, catch-and-score skillset - that's real basketball - the best mid-range players were simply better winners than the ball-dominators

[DaHeezy]

No midrange game for:

Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)


Great mid-range game for:

MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)


So it's all about mid-range, off-ball, catch-and-score skillset - that's real basketball - the best mid-range players were simply better winners than the ball-dominators

:roll:
AAANDD he reveals the Jordan d!cksucking side. Should have known this was an agenda thread from the start. I don't know why I actually was fooled into giving him credit.

[RRR3]

No midrange game for Chris Paul might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

Braindead to say that about Nash and Oscar (from what I hear) too

[NBAGOAT]

Calling dirk and curry wings is just not factual. Lmao at saying Paul/Nash have no midrange game. They are goat lvl midrange shooters and Paul at least has insane volume too.

Wings are likely the best player on title teams now but you can easily argue for bigs as recently as 15 years ago. Like where the hell is duncan in the last list. If Hakeem had decent help for most of his career, why couldn’t he win like 4 rings.

It’s just a prediction but I feel like it could be pgs in the future. It’s such a promising position right now. Wings are top heavy but there aren’t too many young promising ones like there are at pg or even center

[3ball]

Calling dirk and curry wings is just not factual. Lmao at saying Paul/Nash have no midrange game. They are goat lvl midrange shooters and Paul at least has insane volume too.

Wings are likely the best player on title teams now but you can easily argue for bigs as recently as 15 years ago. Like where the hell is duncan in the last list. If Hakeem had decent help for most of his career, why couldn’t he win like 4 rings.

It’s just a prediction but I feel like it could be pgs in the future. It’s such a promising position right now. Wings are top heavy but there aren’t too many young promising ones like there are at pg or even center
These are general categories with exceptions

The main distinction is on-ball and off-ball - wings can dominate off-ball, so this includes Curry and Dirk, who don't fit into the PG-only skillset

Regarding mid-range - Cp3 and Nash have mid-range but they're exceptions in that category, so ur making my point (exceptions prove the rule)... Ultimately, the wings listed earlier itt are all great mid-range players/clutch, and the PG's generally aren't

[NBAGOAT]

These are general categories with exceptions

The main distinction is on-ball and off-ball - wings can dominate off-ball, so this includes Curry and Dirk, who don't fit into the PG-only skillset

Regarding mid-range - Cp3 and Nash have mid-range but they're exceptions in that category, so ur making my point (exceptions prove the rule)... Ultimately, the wings listed earlier itt are all great mid-range players/clutch, and the PG's generally aren't

No the ones you cherrypicked have great midrange for wings and don’t for pg. Giannis is a wing for example under your stupid apg criteria

Edit: and then you ignore guys like Stockton and Oscar at pg.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]No the ones you cherrypicked have great midrange for wings and don

[NBAGOAT]

The wings aren't cherrypicked - they're the wings that won all the rings for the last 30-40 years - MJ, Bird, Kawhi, KD, Kobe, Dirk, etc

Giannis doesn't qualify for that reason.. when he wins, then we'll have that discussion, but right now he's in 07-10' lebrick mode (can't shoot and losing with 60-win, 1 seeds)

And btw, Giannis' time of possession is below 5 minutes, so he isn't a ball-dominator, despite having the showiest drives - he lets teammates move the ball and become threats without him getting involved.. He only steps in to break a stalemate, which is the trademark of all champion/goat wings.. but again, Giannis can't currently shoot or win, so he isn't ready to be in the goat wing group yet

the definition of cherrypicked when you picked a bunch of ringless pgs :lol

[Mr Feeny]

No midrange game for:

Nash, Cp3, lebron, Magic, Westbrook, Oscar, harden (8 rings, 0 organic, history of choking)


Great mid-range game for:

MJ, Kawhi, Bird, Kobe, Dirk, KD, Curry (21 rings, 19 organic, history of clutch)


So it's all about mid-range, off-ball, catch-and-score skillset - that's real basketball - the best mid-range players were simply better winners than the ball-dominators

Come on, man.

[bizil]

In general, the two most valuable types of players in NBA history are:


- 6'5 and up perimeter players who can play a minimum of three positions great. From there have the blend of alpha dog level scoring AND great all around ability to go with it. EVERY perimeter player who was considered the best player in the world at some point had this blend. MJ, Bron, Magic, Kobe and Bird all have this blend. Those five are considered the top 5 perimeter players GOAT and peak-prime wise by many people.

- Dominant centers who dominate the paint. Some are great two way players and rebounders like Wilt, Kareem, Dream, Robinson, and Duncan (PF-C type). Some are great low post scorers and rebounders like Shaq and Moses. Some have a great floor game and provide very good scoring like Russ. BUT ALL these guys dominated the paint on such a level they were MVPs and won titles.

If u look at NBA history, these two types of players DOMINATED MVP awards. And the best player in the world was ALWAYS one of these two types of players. If u look at the top 10 GOAT, all 10 spots ARE FILLED by one of these two types of players: (no partiuclar order)

MJ
Cap
Bron
Russ
Magic
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Mamba
Bird

[bizil]

The only new blend of player I can see moving forward in the future that could make a dent as time moves on is the positionless 7 foot type of players. 7 footers who are very athletic to freak athletic. And from there can play and defend four to five positions very well to great. And can be great scorers AND great all around players in one package. KG was the Godfather in many ways. Now u have Giannis, AD, and KD who in their own ways fit that bill. KG, Giannis, and KD have won MVPs already. AD should win one before his career is over. So as we move forward, we should see more of this type of player popping up.

[3ball]

Come on, man.
Those are exceptions

the wings listed earlier itt are all great mid-range players/clutch/win more, and the PG's are generally the opposite of these things

[pegasus]

Kobe literally turned Nash into a spot up shooter.
That's just bs. Go watch the first three games of that season before Nash got injured. Kobe let Nash do the play-making and had great numbers, both PPG and FG% wise. But the team was losing because Nash couldn't shoot like he used to, and Howard and Gasol together never worked.

By the time Nash came back he was a shell of himself, so Kobe took over and literally dragged them to the playoffs unlike your idol Lebron who failed miserably after he supposedly turned the playoff mode on.

[Manny98]

How df is Curry a wing you retard

[72-10]

I'm a little concerned you didn't mention AI

[RRR3]

Kobe literally dragged them to the playoffs except they were still out of the playoffs when he got hurt and had to win the next two games to get in :lol

Pegashit still dumb as ever.

[Gougou]

Wing-man need the highest skill.

I used to think point guard need to have the highest caliber skillset but now I think it is the wing-man that require the most.

I mean look at the some of the best playoff runs, 2006 Wade, 2016 James, 2019 Kawhi, those wings can take over the entire series just because those wings are so good that the enemy team simply can't stop them. If you have the most skillset in a wing you can do so much than a PG.

Most point guards responsibility is to pass the ball, run the offense, but majority of the time it is the wing man job to score, defend, get rebound, I think wing man need the highest skillset to be excel at everything to carry the game.

[Wally450]

What the flying f*ck is organic rings?

[sdot_thadon]

What the flying f*ck is organic rings?https://i.postimg.cc/w1qhnN4X/il-570x-N-1744857166-3ypo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w1qhnN4X)

[ILLsmak]

3 ball at whole foods lookin for rangz

-Smak

['Toine=MVP]

It is a bit of a poorly worded question if anyone is picking anything but PG. Imagine if Shaq had the skills of Kevin Durant. Pretty great, right? Now imagine he had the skills of Steve Nash.

The best wings are so great because they have a lot of the skills that PG have AND they are big. No PG can survive purely on the skills of a wing player, because that would just make them a really short wing player. Obviously no PG can survive purely on the skills of a big man either.

/debate

[bizil]

Well Magic was THE POINT GUARD that was considered the best player in the world at one point. It was the only time in league history that a PG was considered the best player. The reason is BECAUSE he had the size of a SF or some PF's. BUT he was the best floor general of all time and pushed the rock like the great smaller PG's. Like I stated before, it's more about SIZE than the actual position. IF Penny Hardaway stayed healthy, similar shit. If Bron transition to PG similar shit. James Harden plays a ton of PG, similar shit.

Not about POSITION, it's about SIZE and VERSATILITY!!! 6'5 and up perimeter players that can play a minimum of three positions, be great scorers, AND great all around players in one package are the most PREMIUM type of players in NBA history. Along with dominant centers who dominate the paint. Stretch PF's, smaller PG's, one way scoring specialists, 3 and D wings, Reggie Miller type sharpshooter-scoring wings, etc. will NEVER be considered the best player in the league. They can be great and among the best. BUT never THE BEST! Their toolbox or versatility won't enable them for that status!

[3ball]

If you aren't a great shooter and have a great midrange skillset/post footwork, i.e. "catch the ball, pump fake, quick move and score" skillset - than you don't have the premier basketball skillset.

Overwhelmingly, the best winners ever have this jumpshooting expertise, and also midrange repertoire - MJ, Bird, Kobe, Kawhi, Durant, Dirk - they all had it.

Other guys that were primarily ball-dominant didn't win, unless they colluded like Magic or Lebron.

Furthermore, the midrange and jumpshot experts were also great passers, like Bird and MJ.. And they passed without dominating the ball - MJ averaged 11 apg in the 1991 Finals without bringing the ball up or playing PG.. But MJ could also be a ball-dominant PG like Magic and Lebron - he averaged 30/9/11 in 24 games at PG in 1989..

So the midrange/jumpshot experts like Bird/MJ/Kobe - who can shoot jumpshots in infinite ways AND pass with the best of them - have the best overall skillsets, which is why they won the most.
.