Who do you consider the 2nd best Power Forward of all time?

[LukeWalton]

I think a lot of us can agree who was the best PF of all time
but who the 2nd one is trickier..

who would you consider the 2nd best PF of all time?

[MrFonzworth]

Duncan.

[NBAGOAT]

Kevin Garnett

[LAmbruh]

Pau


but i'm a biased Lakers fan so take it with a gram of crack

[Bawkish]

Horace Grant

[SouBeachTalents]

Chris Bosh

[Akeem34TheDream]

Larry Bird

[Bosnian Sajo]

Draymond Green

[superduper]

Pau


but i'm a biased Lakers fan so take it with a gram of crack

Ban worthy statement

[bladefd]

Duncan is the greatest pf ever. Followed by Karl Malone or Kevin McHale

[Mr Know It All]

Duncan is the greatest pf ever. Followed by Karl Malone or Kevin McHale

lol @ ranking McHale above Dirk. You know about as much about basketball as my chair.

[Uncle Drew]

Barkley.

[tanibanana]

Malone

[HylianNightmare]

Malone

[AussieSteve]

Every metric and eye test says Barkley.

Longevity stats say Malone.

[Sakkreth]

Dirk

[90sgoat]

Duncan is a center.

It's:

Barkley
Dirk
Malone
McHale
Garnett

[baudkarma]

Duncan is a center.

It's:

Barkley
Dirk
Malone
McHale
Garnett

Agreed, Duncan played center.

Malone
Dirk
Barkley
Garnett
McHale

[Mr Feeny]

Depending on whom you consider the best ever, its Malone or Duncan. Barkley has a claim to be better than both as an individual player but what hurt him was his lack of titles, mvps (only 1, because he was unfortunate enough to play in the same time as Jordan and Magic) and cumulative totals.

[zeerghit]

Duncan is a center.

It's:

Barkley
Dirk
Malone
McHale
Garnett
no Gasol?

[rmt]

Duncan is a center.

It's:

Barkley
Dirk
Malone
McHale
Garnett

Then I guess David Robinson, Will Perdue, Kevin Willis, Rasho Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Tony Massenberg, Jackie Butler, Francisco Elson, Kurt Thomas, Fabricio Oberto, Theo Ratliff, Ian Mahinmi, Dejuan Blair, Tiago Splitter, Aaron Baynes and Boban Marjanovic were all Power Forwards.

Besides, his peak/prime was mostly spent at PF and he moved toward C as the league got smaller (though he still played PF in later years with Splitter/Baynes). I don't see why he should be dinged because he could play both positions - that gave the Spurs great roster flexibility.

[Celtics 1825]

KG

[iamgine]

Duncan is capable of playing both big positions. Garnett also played center a lot. It depends on team personnels and matchups.

ps. Durant played SF and PF at his best. If we count him as PF he can be the 2nd best PF ever.

[ralph_i_el]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Barkley
4. Malone
5. Dirk

I only thought about this for 8 seconds.

LeBron, Bird, and Durant are 4's in this era, but I'm still counting them as wings. Teams just play more wings these days.

[Carbine]

Surprised Dirk isn't being ranked above Barkley and Malone.

Dirk was a unique offensive player and his 2011 is the tipping point when evaluating careers. It was more impressive than what Kawhi did this year, IMO.

[Round Mound]

Prime and Peak Barkley and its not even close. Watch the games...

[fsvr54]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Barkley
4. Malone
5. Dirk

I only thought about this for 8 seconds.

LeBron, Bird, and Durant are 4's in this era, but I'm still counting them as wings. Teams just play more wings these days.

this is my exact ranking

McHale deserves a mention though ( I think he's a better player than Dirk and Malone). I value skill and talent over accomplishments.

[Manny98]

1. Dirk
2. KG
3. Malone
4. Barkley

Duncan played the majority of his career at the 5

[LAmbruh]

Interesting how these alleged great 90's bigs like Barkley and Malone have a total whopping zero rings combined, in over 30+ seasons total


And this gets spewed by the exact stanbase that gauges greatness on rangs



https://i.postimg.cc/tJh8cYVG/But-Thats-None-Of-My-Business.jpg

[jbryan1984]

Do we consider Bird and Duncan PF's? Or SF and Center? Because those 2 are in my top 10, Karl Malone probably holds 13th or 14th on my all time list.

[bigkingsfan]

Horace Grant
This

[tanibanana]

Duncan played too often as a Center.. but majority of his career he played as a Power Forward. So he is a PF. I don

[Round Mound]

Every metric and eye test says Barkley.

Longevity stats say Malone.

Most people here did not watch prime and peak Barkley so they don't know how good he was. Its sad but true.

[sammichoffate]

Dirk, he's 6th All-Time Scoring and had one of the GOAT playoff runs.

[AussieSteve]

I just don't see how anyone can have Malone, Dirk or KG over Barkley. The only thing I can assume is that they never watched him.

KG never... NEVER... scored more than 35 points in a playoff game. If a dude didn't once in his entire career take over a playoff game offensively, he's not in the conversation.

Malone was was worse at everything than Barkley. He gave more effort on D, but even then, I've been re-watching some 93 playoff games recently and Barkley gave consistantly great defensive effort for that whole postseason and he was easily a net positive on D.

And Dirk... all he has going for him is 2011. Without that run, he would not be in this debate. And while he was clutch in that run, his performances are way overstated. And his ring came courtesy of an epic choke. Barkley in 1993 was better IMO. He had similar scoring, more offensive boards, defensive boards, assists, steals and blocks, less turnovers, better advanced metrics, and was just a better and more impactful player all over the court. And clutch? Barkley had just as many epic clutch efforts in that run. He had had 19 points in the last 10 mins of game 5 against the spurs, to bring the suns back from a 8 point deficit early in the 4th. Then he hit the game (and series) winner in the final second of game 6. He had a 43 point triple double in game 5 against the sonics, then 44 and 24 in game 7!

Barkley was better at everything on a basketball court than Dirk except perimeter shooting. I know that being 'better' is not the only consideration in these kind of conversations, but even if you rate Dirk's 2011 > Barkley's 1993, the gap is no where near enough to compensate for the simple fact he was an inferior player.

For me it's...
Barkley
Dirk
KG
Malone

[CAstill]

The correct answer is Barkley with Duncan being the GOAT PF. Here's some food for thought to those of us who actually watched basketball in the late 80's and 90's. Malone was always considered a choker and everyone knew he was gonna lose those 2 finals he finally made at the end of his career. Barkley lost his one chance. The lockout screwed over the true GOAT PF in Kemp who was the best PF by the 95 season who just finished getting the torch from Barkley in some epic playoff series. Remember Kemp went on to Murder Malone and Hakeem in the post during his 96 post season run. KG was good but let's be real during the late 90's and early 2000's Webber was better when healthy. Dirk is 3rd all time PF and 2011 was justification for all the other playoff runs he got screwed over with no help. David Robinson was also considered a PF and he was better than Malone. I have Malone 4th though because he did put in work to get where he was at.

[AussieSteve]

People hold Barkley not being a winner against him. People on here have taken it a little further, saying that he didn't have a winners mentality, or even that he was a mental midget. But the bulls had that effect on everyone in the 90s. Look at what Barkley did to DRob and the spurs in games 5 and 6 in 93, and then what he did to the sonics in games 5 and 7. You could tell in those games that he made the decision that he was not going to lose. They are four ATG performances when his team needed them most, all in the space of a couple of weeks. And they are the kind of performances that KG and Malone rarely produced in the postseason.

[Round Mound]

People hold Barkley not being a winner against him. People on here have taken it a little further, saying that he didn't have a winners mentality, or even that he was a mental midget. But the bulls had that effect on everyone in the 90s. Look at what Barkley did to DRob and the spurs in games 5 and 6 in 93, and then what he did to the sonics in games 5 and 7. You could tell in those games that he made the decision that he was not going to lose. They are four ATG performances when his team needed them most, all in the space of a couple of weeks. And they are the kind of performances that KG and Malone rarely produced in the postseason.

:applause:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Duncan isn

[iamgine]

I think the consensus out there is clearly Karl Malone. With a few picking Garnett and Barkley.

[CAstill]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Duncan isn

[SamuraiSWISH]

He was a center by default because the league got small. No smart coach would put him on Hakeem, Shaq or even old Sabonis for a whole game. He's like when the Kings would go small ball and put Webber at Center. Even Drob wasn't a true center. Rik Smith was a better center lol.
Did you just say Drob wasn

[SouBeachTalents]

The correct answer is Barkley with Duncan being the GOAT PF. Here's some food for thought to those of us who actually watched basketball in the late 80's and 90's. Malone was always considered a choker and everyone knew he was gonna lose those 2 finals he finally made at the end of his career. Barkley lost his one chance. The lockout screwed over the true GOAT PF in Kemp who was the best PF by the 95 season who just finished getting the torch from Barkley in some epic playoff series. Remember Kemp went on to Murder Malone and Hakeem in the post during his 96 post season run. KG was good but let's be real during the late 90's and early 2000's Webber was better when healthy. Dirk is 3rd all time PF and 2011 was justification for all the other playoff runs he got screwed over with no help. David Robinson was also considered a PF and he was better than Malone. I have Malone 4th though because he did put in work to get where he was at.
To the bolded, by '01 KG had surpassed Webber imo. And Robinson a PF :biggums: He was 7'1 235 and never considered anything but a center

People hold Barkley not being a winner against him. People on here have taken it a little further, saying that he didn't have a winners mentality, or even that he was a mental midget. But the bulls had that effect on everyone in the 90s. Look at what Barkley did to DRob and the spurs in games 5 and 6 in 93, and then what he did to the sonics in games 5 and 7. You could tell in those games that he made the decision that he was not going to lose. They are four ATG performances when his team needed them most, all in the space of a couple of weeks. And they are the kind of performances that KG and Malone rarely produced in the postseason.
No shame in losing to Jordan & the Bulls, Barkley definitely played well enough to win those Finals, as he did the majority of his career in the playoffs

Where Barkley does deserve criticism though are the 2 years Jordan's Bulls weren't waiting in the Finals, where his teams blew 2-0 and 3-1 leads to Houston in b2b seasons

[90sgoat]

The reason Barkley is GOAT PF is because he redefined the power forward position.

He was a transcendent talent in a way that neither Malone, KG or even Duncan was.

Barkley was to the PF position what Magic was to the PG, Hakeem to the C, Jordan to the SG and so on.

Why?

Because Barkley was the size of a guard, Jordan's exact height, but due to freakish athletic ability and strength was able to play power forward.

It's the reverse with Magic, who due to freakish skill was able to play 2 positions down. Barkley due to freakish strength and athleticism was able to play 2 positions up.

Being able to play out of your natural position like this adds something extra to the position. So Barkley could use his great skill in dribbling, fastbreaks and passing along with the full suite of traditional PF skills in midrange shooting, killer post game, garbage buckets. Like Magic added a killer post game to a position not used to it in addition to typical playmaking.

This is why Barkley was GOAT PF. He added more to the position. You'd get all the rebounding, garbage points, low post scoring, mid range, like you'd get from Webber or Malone, but you ALSO got incredibly fast breaks, taking people of the dribble, playmaking like a wing.

KG, Webber, Malone are more or less the same player with some variations. None of them add something extra to the PF positions.

Webber is the one who had the most potential of them all, but injuries derailed his career. 27/11/4/2 in his peak season in 00/01. That's some GOAT level production had he been able to do it for 10+ seasons. In addition, he was a key piece on those Sac teams which are top 5 of all time great passing teams. Those teams are so underrated. Even with injuries, Webber had a 4 season peak of 25/11/5 to go with 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks. That's as good as any peak that KG had.

This idea that KG is GOAT or anywhere close is some stat nerd nonsense. KG was much too limited and unwilling scorer.

[AussieSteve]

To the bolded, by '01 KG had surpassed Webber imo. And Robinson a PF :biggums: He was 7'1 235 and never considered anything but a center

No shame in losing to Jordan & the Bulls, Barkley definitely played well enough to win those Finals, as he did the majority of his career in the playoffs

Where Barkley does deserve criticism though are the 2 years Jordan's Bulls weren't waiting in the Finals, where his teams blew 2-0 and 3-1 leads to Houston in b2b seasons

Yeah but 94 and 95 Barkley was post back injury Barkley. He was not the same player. I agree he underachieved those years, but he was playing through pain and somewhat limited mobility. Particularly in 94... His performance fell off a cliff after game 2 of the WCF, and it was directly related to his back pain.

[jayfan]

I think a lot of us can agree who was the best PF of all time
but who the 2nd one is trickier..

who would you consider the 2nd best PF of all time?

I'll bite. Who is this player that a lot agree is the best?

[Gougou]

Idk for some reason I think it is Anthony Davis. Last season during a period of time he avged like 29/13/5 something like that, the season before he avged like 28/11/2.

He scores better than KG, have a better defense than Dirk, I also think his game is better than Karl Malone.

[Round Mound]

Barkley in his prime and peak is easily the goat pf.

[ClipperRevival]

Horace Grant

For sure.

[AussieSteve]

Idk for some reason I think it is Anthony Davis. Last season during a period of time he avged like 29/13/5 something like that, the season before he avged like 28/11/2.

He scores better than KG, have a better defense than Dirk, I also think his game is better than Karl Malone.

His offensive game is inferior to Barkley, Dirk and Malone.

I could see AD over Malone, but he would need to expand his offense significantly and turn stats into impact before he touches Dirk or Barkley

29 bird fed ppg in this era, the way AD gets them, is not close to the impact of the 25ppg that Dirk or Barkley got in their primes.

Edit... And if we're cherry picking half seasons to build our case, then Barkley averaged 31ppg on 61%efg, 66%ts through half a season in 91, before he got injured.

[GimmeThat]

the thing is to why I group PF with C instead of the 'forward' front court is because the Center and Small Forward position can both be played by players without great verticals (positioning is key)

by the term PF, one would think it's the position benefiting the back court to play against players bigger than them

the trick is really when the bench comes in, how many PF can play the triangle well in their position relative to the SF and C when facing the basket

[SamuraiSWISH]

Idk for some reason I think it is Anthony Davis. Last season during a period of time he avged like 29/13/5 something like that, the season before he avged like 28/11/2.

He scores better than KG, have a better defense than Dirk, I also think his game is better than Karl Malone.
I

[And1AllDay]

Interesting how these alleged great 90's bigs like Barkley and Malone have a total whopping zero rings combined, in over 30+ seasons total


And this gets spewed by the exact stanbase that gauges greatness on rangs



https://i.postimg.cc/tJh8cYVG/But-Thats-None-Of-My-Business.jpg

kaboom

[72-10]

Best power forwards of all time
1. Tim Duncan
2. Charles Barkley
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Karl Malone
5. Dirk Nowitzki

and it's ironic because I think Dirk is the most skilled power forward of all time

[Round Mound]

Best power forwards of all time
1. Tim Duncan
2. Charles Barkley
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Karl Malone
5. Dirk Nowitzki

and it's ironic because I think Dirk is the most skilled power forward of all time

Good list but i have Malone as 3rd and Kevin McHale at 4th, then Dirk at 5th and finally Garnett at 6th

[AussieSteve]

In terms of who was the best player...

Duncan
Barkley
Dirk
KG
Malone

McHale / AD

AD is not on the same tier as the first group. Sorry to the stat nerds who cite ppg and per. He's on the same level as McHale.

The only player above that he is better than offensively is KG. And even this is marginal because KG actually did most things better than AD on that end. AD is obviously a much greater force inside however.

Barkley for me has a case for #1, over Duncan, based purely on who was the best and most impactful player in their prime. Won't debate that here though.

Dirk is above the others simply because his skill set, while not as diverse, is more impactful and conducive to team success. And he performed in the post season while KG and Malone usually diminished a little in the POs.

[DaHeezy]

I knew the whole debate about position would come up. Duncan is a power forward. Barkley played a couple of seasons at small forward when Mahorn and Gminski were in the lineup and did it effectively. As well as when he played with Gilliam. But we all know he's a PF.