It only makes sense to rank about 7-8 players

[90sgoat]

These detailed rankings of top 20 or top 50 or whatever ESPN and the nerds do, is complete waste of time, no way anyone can make any real decision on who is 20 over 21.

As far as GOATs go, it's a pretty small list and those worth ranking and talking about are:

MJ - stats, rings, skill
Kareem - stats, rings, skill
Russel - rings
Shaq - rings, stats
Duncan - rings
Wilt - stats
Magic - rings, stats, skill
Bird - stats, skill

That's it.

Next up is a whole lot of players who fail at one like Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Kobe, Barkley, Hondo, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Lebron, Hakeem whatever.

Does it really matter who goes where on such a list? Not really, they're not goat material. In reality the Mount Rushmore (+1) is the only discussion tht matters.

I'd personally do a GOAT starting lineup and say:

Magic
MJ
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

I think that's quite solidly the GOAT players in a GOAT starting lineup. You don't really need more than that. Maybe you want to swap Kareem for Shaq, I can live with that. Maybe you say Russel would be better at that PF spot next to Kareem, ok that's cool.

You can not begin to put Jerry West in there instead of MJ or Lebron instead of Bird. No can do. That's the Top 5.

[SpaceJam2]

Stats: LeBron
Rings: Russell

Only need 2 rankings

[PickernRoller]

I have 3 tiers.

The eye test + alpha test + rings + stats tier:

Jordan
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Hakeem
Magic

The rings, old weak era bois:

Russell

The Frauds:

Wilt, Lebron James, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, KD etc...

[superduper]

I have 3 tiers.

The eye test + alpha test + rings + stats tier:

Jordan
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Hakeem
Magic

The rings, old weak era bois:

Russell

The Frauds:

Wilt, Lebron James, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, KD etc...

I don't know why your "The Frauds" headline made me laugh so hard :oldlol:

[TheMan]

Stats: LeBron
Rings: Russell

Only need 2 rankings:no:
Wilt owns the most records in NBA history, and LeBron is nowhere near sniffing any of them

[PickernRoller]

:no:
Wilt owns the most records in NBA history, and LeBron is nowhere near sniffing any of them


Kinda revealing that the guy could only get 2 rings being so "dominant", then again he was considered a choker in his time. Just like our modern day Bran.

[TheMan]

Kinda revealing that the guy could only get 2 rings being so "dominant", then again he was considered a choker in his time. Just like our modern day Bran.
That's a bit unfair, he would have ended up with more rings but he kept running into Russell who was surrounded with better teammates. He outplayed Russell plenty of times but basketball is a team sport at the end of the day.

[SpaceJam2]

:no:
Wilt owns the most records in NBA history, and LeBron is nowhere near sniffing any of them


Playoff records byLeBron (Not MJ, Not Wilt)

-Most points
-Most steals
-Most game winners
-Most playoff series wins
-Averaged Triple Double during Finals
-Lead all players in points, rebounds, assists for entire playoff series (x2)
-VORP
-Win shares
-Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2016 Game 6)
-Second Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2018 Game 1)
-Highest 2 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016 Game 5 & 6)
-Highest 3 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016Game 5, 6, & 7)


Next

[PickernRoller]

That's a bit unfair, he would have ended up with more rings but he kept running into Russell who was surrounded with better teammates. He outplayed Russell plenty of times but basketball is a team sport at the end of the day.

You're basing the idea of outplaying Russell on the stats Wilt dropped. You haven't considered that maybe Russell, a much better leader, and smarter player, understood that Wilt alone racking up monster stats and "getting his" was not gonna get it done. Maybe Russell was cerebral enough to understand that it isn't about the individual stats but the cohesion of the team. Easy W for the champ. If only Wilt had more halp!.... now where have I seen that before???? oh and btw, it's the same claim that other loser, known as Jerry West makes all the time. All the losers always bitch about the champ having all the help.... just like Chuck... if only I had Pippen!

Kinda like how Boston did Bran from 08-10. Definitely ran into a different mind with Kobe.

[TheMan]

Playoff records byLeBron (Not MJ, Not Wilt)

-Most points
-Most steals
-Most game winners
-Most playoff series wins
-Averaged Triple Double during Finals
-Lead all players in points, rebounds, assists for entire playoff series (x2)
-VORP
-Win shares
-Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2016 Game 6)
-Second Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2018 Game 1)
-Highest 2 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016 Game 5 & 6)
-Highest 3 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016Game 5, 6, & 7)


Next
You also forgot one, 3rd in most Finals series lost with most assuredly more to come, hey I bet he'll catch Jerry West at 8 losses in the next few seasons...if he doesn't retire first :bowdown:

BTW, nice list but Wilt owns 72 NBA records, most in NBA history and Bron ain't touching any of those.

[TheMan]

You're basing the idea of outplaying Russell on the stats Wilt dropped. You haven't considered that maybe Russell, a much better leader, and smarter player, understood that Wilt alone racking up monster stats and "getting his" was not gonna get it done. Maybe Russell was cerebral enough to understand that it isn't about the individual stats but the cohesion of the team. Easy W for the champ. If only Wilt had more halp!.... now where have I seen that before???? oh and btw, it's the same claim that other loser, known as Jerry West makes all the time. All the losers always bitch about the champ having all the help.... just like Chuck... if only I had Pippen!

Kinda like how Boston did Bran from 08-10. Definitely ran into a different mind with Kobe.
Maybe Russ just played with better teammates? Don't need to do everything when you have talented players on your team. LeBron stat pads at the detriment of his team, I understand that you have to pick up the slack if you have scrubs around you so I don't give James too much flak for 2015 but when he did have talent around him in those other Finals losses, then he needs to stop hogging the ball and getting stats over wins....the easily duped Bran stans will scream "...but stats and shit!" but we all see that his brand of basketball is actually a net negative to winning basketball.

Honestly with Wilt, he might've been outgunned most times he faced the Celtics and probably felt he needed to do more to try to win but yeah, he did have a few Finals series where he played below his standard, just like LeBron has.

Still doesn't make Wilt, nor LBJ one of the greatest players ever, obviously just not the GOAT, and thankfully most fans aren't being hoodwinked by his guady stats...

[Manny98]

Most of Wilts records are single game records which are impossible to reach because of the league was absurdly different back then, Wilts stats are largely inflated everyone knows that

In the 3-point era, LeBron has the best/most stats out of everyone that's a fact

[PickernRoller]

Well you also have to consider that not all players mesh well together. So looking from the outside in, if you look at Russells teamates, and how well they performed with Russell as team - you can say... "ohh geee look how many great teammates Russ had..."

But we know a star center/pf playing with Kobe will not be utilized nor have the same success as it does with Bran....

That player will simply not shine the same way. All of the sudden, that great teammate ain't great no more...... but it's easy to say when you're looking for that scapegoat as those losers did.

[TheMan]

Most of Wilts records are single game records which are impossible to reach because of the league was absurdly different back then, Wilts stats are largely inflated everyone knows that

In the 3-point era, LeBron has the best/most stats out of everyone that's a fact
Due to the fact that LeBron dominates the ball like no one else in history has done, look at his usage rate. That's great for compiling individual stats, not so great for great team work. How many LBJ led teams are considered all time greats? And don't give me that sorry excuse that he has always played with bums, you gotta blame LeGM for that too if that's your excuse. All of the top 10 GOATs have played with some top tier great teams, except for Hakeem whose best teammate was a past his prime Drexler but he still won back to back titles while MJ was shagging flyballs, not his fault...but every GOAT played with GOAT teams at some point in their careers, except for LeBron because he reduces his talented teammates. LeBron elevates scrubs but reduces talented teammates into spot up shooters with his ball dominant playing style, fact.

[RRR3]

TheMan having a complete meltdown

MJ has the highest usage rate of all time iirc

[Manny98]

Due to the fact that LeBron dominates the ball like no one else in history has done, look at his usage rate. That's great for compiling individual stats, not so great for great team work. How many LBJ led teams are considered all time greats? And don't give me that sorry excuse that he has always played with bums, you gotta blame LeGM for that too if that's your excuse. All of the top 10 GOATs have played with some top tier great teams, except for Hakeem whose best teammate was a past his prime Drexler but he still won back to back titles while MJ was shagging flyballs, not his fault...but every GOAT played with GOAT teams at some point in their careers, except for LeBron because he reduces his talented teammates. LeBron elevates scrubs but reduces talented teammates into spot up shooters with his ball dominant playing style, fact.
The 2016 Cavs and 2013 Heat are both widely regarded as top 20 teams of all time df are you talking about moron

[sdot_thadon]

These detailed rankings of top 20 or top 50 or whatever ESPN and the nerds do, is complete waste of time, no way anyone can make any real decision on who is 20 over 21.

As far as GOATs go, it's a pretty small list and those worth ranking and talking about are:

MJ - stats, rings, skill
Kareem - stats, rings, skill
Russel - rings
Shaq - rings, stats
Duncan - rings
Wilt - stats
Magic - rings, stats, skill
Bird - stats, skill

That's it.

Next up is a whole lot of players who fail at one like Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Kobe, Barkley, Hondo, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Lebron, Hakeem whatever.

Does it really matter who goes where on such a list? Not really, they're not goat material. In reality the Mount Rushmore (+1) is the only discussion tht matters.

I'd personally do a GOAT starting lineup and say:

Magic
MJ
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

I think that's quite solidly the GOAT players in a GOAT starting lineup. You don't really need more than that. Maybe you want to swap Kareem for Shaq, I can live with that. Maybe you say Russel would be better at that PF spot next to Kareem, ok that's cool.

You can not begin to put Jerry West in there instead of MJ or Lebron instead of Bird. No can do. That's the Top 5.
The fact you only think 4 of the 8 you listed are skilled enough for mention confirms your opinion's value in my eyes......

[And1AllDay]

Playoff records byLeBron (Not MJ, Not Wilt)

-Most points
-Most steals
-Most game winners
-Most playoff series wins
-Averaged Triple Double during Finals
-Lead all players in points, rebounds, assists for entire playoff series (x2)
-VORP
-Win shares
-Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2016 Game 6)
-Second Highest single Finals GameScore performance (2018 Game 1)
-Highest 2 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016 Game 5 & 6)
-Highest 3 game stretch Finals GameScore (2016Game 5, 6, & 7)


Next

issa wrap

[SpaceJam]

Jesus if we start only ranking 8 players, 12be is gonna be missing on most lists

[elementally morale]

The older I get the less I understand why I should rank players. At all. What's important is who I enjoy watching the most (personal preference) and how well a team I root for does.

All this constant ranking of players 'all time' is very much American. It reminds me of a phrase I also dislike 'net worth'. Bill Gates' net worth is this and that. means nothing to me. Sure, Bill is rich. There are other rich guys. And the worth of a person is something different. Is it really important who the 5th most rich person in the world is? Does he have a better life than the 1000th richest?

MJ this, LeBron that... but Kobe was better and Hakeem is better than Duncan but no because Barkley was better. I don't give a damn who was better.

[GimmeThat]

each position's player ranking 'should' fit the statistical model of normal distribution