MCU Avengers vs DCCU Superman

[DaHeezy]

I just finished watching Justice League and I'm convinced an unhinged Superman with no moral code could highhandedly take on the MCU Avengers including Capt.Marvel

Seeing how he annihilated the Justice League I could easily see him given the beat down to Thanos even with the gauntlet

Who would win, Avengers or Superman (cinematic versions for both)

[Kblaze8855]

Superman is not strong enough to overcome being made of dust if Thanos snapped his fingers. He could turn superman into a Jell-O pudding cup with the reality stone alone. A lot of the fighting he did in the first movie was because he likes to fight and of course you need to fight scenes but Tony explained it pretty well. It wasn’t really a fight. With all the gems?

It’s just a matter of if he feels like allowing a true fight.

He did that in the comics. He would have fights when he could simply kill everyone. It’s kind of stupid but it’s his ego.

Sure superman decided to run up on anybody at lightspeed and knock their head off nobody could beat him but he’s like Thanos. He has fights when he could simply grab a guy and throw him to the sun.

It would be a battle of two guys who only have realistic opponents because of plot induced stupidity.

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Superman is not strong enough to overcome being made of dust if Thanos snapped his fingers. He could turn superman into a Jell-O pudding cup with the reality stone alone. A lot of the fighting he did in the first movie was because he likes to fight and of course you need to fight scenes but Tony explained it pretty well. It wasn

[sammichoffate]

Superman speed blitzes everyone in Marvel except for Thanos w/Gauntlet and Thor w/ Stormbreaker(he's too durable so it would be a stalemate).

[highwhey]

sups would lose, but you know who could win?

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1F.lKaJfvK1RjSspoq6zfNpXam/MQ3679-Dragon-Ball-Super-Ultra-Instinct-Goku-Japan-Anime-Comic-Poster-Silk-Light-Canvas-Home-Bedroom.jpg

to be 100% honest, there's no villain that could fvck with Goku :pimp:

[sammichoffate]

sups would lose, but you know who could win?

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1F.lKaJfvK1RjSspoq6zfNpXam/MQ3679-Dragon-Ball-Super-Ultra-Instinct-Goku-Japan-Anime-Comic-Poster-Silk-Light-Canvas-Home-Bedroom.jpg

to be 100% honest, there's no villain that could fvck with Goku :pimp:I haven't seen DBZ since like GT, but apparently Ultra Instinct Goku shits on just about every version of Superman from what i've read.

[highwhey]

I haven't seen DBZ since like GT, but apparently Ultra Instinct Goku shits on just about every version of Superman from what i've read.
he does indeed.

and dbz super is better than GT, it's a lot like original DBZ because the original creator/writer is involved. worth watching it.

[LAmbruh]

Fox X-men >> both :confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

I see what you three have in common... :roll: :roll:

Carry on...

[Doctor K]

I just finished watching Justice League and I'm convinced an unhinged Superman with no moral code could highhandedly take on the MCU Avengers including Capt.Marvel

Seeing how he annihilated the Justice League I could easily see him given the beat down to Thanos even with the gauntlet

Who would win, Avengers or Superman (cinematic versions for both)

Ummmm no

- Captain Marvel has been shown to speed blitz at speeds faster than Superman.
- Thor's durability is higher than any damage Superman has shown to output. Remember he survived the full power of a Star in Infinity War
- If Superman is pre-occupied or hesitant waiting to see what his enemy can do (like in Justice league) Dr. Strange can work all kind of magic and time stone do all sorts of damage
- And then you got other high damage/durability players like Hulk, Vision, Scarlett Witch, etc.


If it was the Avengers in that Justice League scene they would absolutely slaughter him

[Doctor K]

Fox X-men >> both :confusedshrug:
With Dark Phoenix of course...without no

[iamgine]

Thanos was ego based where Superman was more code of ethics. We saw what he could do completely unhinged. That version would annihilate Thanos. Thanos would have to react to use the ring. Supes moves as fast as a base level flash, possibly faster as he caught up to a full speed Flash. The combo of abilities combined are too OP
Superman has the ability to speedblitz but he never did it. This gives Thanos a chance to snap his finger during the fight.

[Prometheus]

Goku > all, on coolness alone

[DaHeezy]

I see what you three have in common... :roll: :roll:

Carry on...

You're an expert on getting owned by imaginary characters. Please, share your experience.with us and give us some input

[DaHeezy]

Superman has the ability to speedblitz but he never did it. This gives Thanos a chance to snap his finger during the fight.

I'm taking the scene when Supe comes back to life where all moral ethics are off the table. No holds barred. That speed blitz comes into effect.

[iamgine]

I'm taking the scene when Supe comes back to life where all moral ethics are off the table. No holds barred. That speed blitz comes into effect.
In that case it's dilemmatic. Yes he can blitz, but if Thanos does not die straight away, he can teleport. Thanos is extremely durable.

[Kblaze8855]

I'm taking the scene when Supe comes back to life where all moral ethics are off the table. No holds barred. That speed blitz comes into effect.


And in that situation who exactly did he kill? He didnt even kill batman who is a normal human. He didnt use his speed for anything but looking at Flash then missing a punch and like...bumping him slightly away doing him no harm.

Superman is not that serious a threat. Hes a hypothetical threat. He virtually never does the things he could.

Thanos will actually destroy the universe the very instant hes capable of doing it.

Thanos wins because while Superman(even the one you reference) is throwing bullshit backhands that dont even kill normal humans he just turns him into dust and moves on.

[NumberSix]

Superman is not strong enough to overcome being made of dust if Thanos snapped his fingers.
Superman easily pulls the gauntlet off of Thanos

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Superman easily pulls the gauntlet off of Thanos

[Doctor K]

I'm taking the scene when Supe comes back to life where all moral ethics are off the table. No holds barred. That speed blitz comes into effect.
Yeah he didn't go straight for a speed blitz. He stared them down and dared them to make the 1st move. In this case, so many moves Thanos can use to put an end to Superman. And even if Superman were to attack 1st he would go for a forceful punch, wait for his opponent to get back up, and then be finished. That's just who he is.


Still has a better shot against Thanos than the Avengers tho. That one is complete domination by the Avengers, who would easily take out the entire Justice League

[bladefd]

Yeah he didn't go straight for a speed blitz. He stared them down and dared them to make the 1st move. In this case, so many moves Thanos can use to put an end to Superman. And even if Superman were to attack 1st he would go for a forceful punch, wait for his opponent to get back up, and then be finished. That's just who he is.


Still has a better shot against Thanos than the Avengers tho. That one is complete domination by the Avengers, who would easily take out the entire Justice League

Superman alone takes out almost the entire Avengers team :confusedshrug:

Thor+Sentry would be a challenge, Doctor Strange/Scarlet Witch could cause issues with their magic. Everyone else getting smashed to smithereens with a bloodthirsty Superman alone. We have not even added Flash, Martian Manhunter, Wonder woman, Green Lantern, Shazam, Captain Atom or Doctor Fate or Batman to the party.

I don't think Superman can beat Thanos with the stones. Without the stones, Superman would hold his own vs Thanos though for however long he wants.

[Facepalm]

Superman alone takes out almost the entire Avengers team :confusedshrug:

Thor+Sentry would be a challenge, Doctor Strange/Scarlet Witch could cause issues with their magic. Everyone else getting smashed to smithereens with a bloodthirsty Superman alone. We have not even added Flash, Martian Manhunter, Wonder woman, Green Lantern, Shazam, Captain Atom or Doctor Fate or Batman to the party.

I don't think Superman can beat Thanos with the stones. Without the stones, Superman would hold his own vs Thanos though for however long he wants.
Thanos is basically Darkseid. Supes is gonna have a hard time. Thor also beats Superman solo since he is weak to magic (Just like how Shazam beats Superman)

[Doctor K]

Superman alone takes out almost the entire Avengers team :confusedshrug:

Thor+Sentry would be a challenge, Doctor Strange/Scarlet Witch could cause issues with their magic. Everyone else getting smashed to smithereens with a bloodthirsty Superman alone. We have not even added Flash, Martian Manhunter, Wonder woman, Green Lantern, Shazam, Captain Atom or Doctor Fate or Batman to the party.

I don't think Superman can beat Thanos with the stones. Without the stones, Superman would hold his own vs Thanos though for however long he wants.
Ummmm no

- Captain Marvel has been shown to speed blitz at speeds faster than Superman.
- Thor's durability is higher than any damage Superman has shown to output. Remember he survived the full power of a Star in Infinity War
- If Superman is pre-occupied or hesitant waiting to see what his enemy can do (like in Justice league) Dr. Strange can work all kind of magic and time stone do all sorts of damage
- And then you got other high damage/durability players like Hulk, Vision, Scarlett Witch, etc.

[NumberSix]

Ummmm no

- Captain Marvel has been shown to speed blitz at speeds faster than Superman.

Captain Marvel is a drunk who can’t even win a fight against Rogue from X-Men.


- Thor's durability is higher than any damage Superman has shown to output. Remember he survived the full power of a Star in Infinity War
1. It was a dwarf star.
2. Superman has proven himself to be stronger than a black hole, which is certainly more powerful than a dwarf star. Ergo, Superman is more powerful than something that is more powerful than the star Thor withstood.


- If Superman is pre-occupied or hesitant waiting to see what his enemy can do (like in Justice league) Dr. Strange can work all kind of magic and time stone do all sorts of damage
Avengers can’t even win a fight with Thanos, who is basically just a weaker Darkseid, who Superman has beaten.

Superman is a genuinely lame character because he’s stupidly overpowered and only has one weakness that needs to be worked into almost every storyline. Lots of Avengers characters are better, cooler characters than Superman. But outside of them having kryptonite, Superman would wreck them.

[Bawkish]

Pissed off Homelander>>>>>>>Superman

[scuzzy]

Phoenix


Creator of life and death and all matter, can exist in multiple realities simultaneously


More powerful than the infinity stones combined

[Kblaze8855]

Captain Marvel is a drunk who can’t even win a fight against Rogue from X-Men.


1. It was a dwarf star.
2. Superman has proven himself to be stronger than a black hole, which is certainly more powerful than a dwarf star. Ergo, Superman is more powerful than something that is more powerful than the star Thor withstood.


Avengers can’t even win a fight with Thanos, who is basically just a weaker Darkseid, who Superman has beaten.

Superman is a genuinely lame character because he’s stupidly overpowered and only has one weakness that needs to be worked into almost every storyline. Lots of Avengers characters are better, cooler characters than Superman. But outside of them having kryptonite, Superman would wreck them.


Superman is exactly as vulnerable to magic as a normal human. Strange could literally remove his soul and talk to it like the Ancient one did Hulk.

People always talk about what Superman could do if they got to control his behavior and make him fight the way he should if he were serious about winning......ignoring that he never does. But we do that and then ignore that other people hold back too.

The majority of the cosmic things Dr.Strange fights could wipe out superman with a thought. Hes a physical being.

He wouldnt be a threat to most things with cosmic powers.The Silver Surfer could turn him into candy corn and nothing superman does could hurt him.

Everyone fighting without holding back the way we give superman credit for doing in every hypothetical he wouldnt be near the greatest threat.

Reed Richardsons son creates universes and stores them in a box.

Superman isnt really that OP. Hes too based in the physical world. He hits hard and hes fast. That isnt enough to defeat a great deal of marvel.

Superman on his best day isnt a threat to a herald of galactus who themselves get beaten all the time. Superman has weaker enemies than in Marvel. He punches things hard. That will not cut it vs something like the Phoenix. And Thanos defeated the physical embodiment of time and space with the gauntlet....Silver Surfer moving at light speed wasnt able to get the glove off him.

That was their entire original plan. Send every hero on earth at him at once as a distraction...surfer hangs back....comes in at warp speed to snatch it off. Thanos still detected his approach and narrowly evaded him.

Thanos was more watered down in the MCU than superman is in the DCU.

[Doctor K]

Captain Marvel is a drunk who can’t even win a fight against Rogue from X-Men.

Umm no? Captain Marvel held her ground against Thanos and if Thanos didn't use his infinity stones would've won that fight. She has shown great energy output and strong durability as well along with her light-like traveling speed.



1. It was a dwarf star.
2. Superman has proven himself to be stronger than a black hole, which is certainly more powerful than a dwarf star. Ergo, Superman is more powerful than something that is more powerful than the star Thor withstood.

Didn't Superman get knocked unconscious after taking an atomic bomb?



Avengers can’t even win a fight with Thanos, who is basically just a weaker Darkseid, who Superman has beaten.

Superman is a genuinely lame character because he’s stupidly overpowered and only has one weakness that needs to be worked into almost every storyline. Lots of Avengers characters are better, cooler characters than Superman. But outside of them having kryptonite, Superman would wreck them.

Superman beat Darkshield in the movies? We are talking about their cinematic versions here. And all the avengers together would've easily taken Thanos, they were separate half half when they failed and barely failed. Together they would've won.


Superman absolutely has no chance against the Avengers. As someone said, as soon as Superman is even a bit occupied with Hulk/Marvel/Thor, Strange can finish him off, he can literally even undo damage that Superman does. And I don't even think Superman wins even with Strange not present. Captain Marvel's feats have been almost on-par with Superman (I'll give Superman the edge) but with Thor/Hulk/Vision/Witch it's just too much

[NumberSix]

Umm no? Captain Marvel held her ground against Thanos
:facepalm

This is not a hypothetical. Captain Marvel has fought Rogue on multiple occasions and lost every time.

[GimmeThat]

seems the thread has summarized the movie Megamind

which would be parallel to the argument, if some dude is getting all the ladies, are there even any ladies left for the norms??

[Stephonit]

Phoenix


Creator of life and death and all matter, can exist in multiple realities simultaneously


More powerful than the infinity stones combined

I think this was shown to be false. Infinity Gauntlet > Phoenix+Celestials+Living Tribunal+Eternity+etc.

[iamgine]

:facepalm

This is not a hypothetical. Captain Marvel has fought Rogue on multiple occasions and lost every time.
Could be PIS.

[Doctor K]

:facepalm

This is not a hypothetical. Captain Marvel has fought Rogue on multiple occasions and lost every time.

We are talking about their cinematic versions right? Which is so far apart from comic versions? :facepalm

Check the OP bro

[NumberSix]

We are talking about their cinematic versions right? Which is so far apart from comic versions? :facepalm

Check the OP bro
And the movies largely follow various comic storylines. In the comics, Rogue takes Captain Marvel

[bladefd]

Umm no? Captain Marvel held her ground against Thanos and if Thanos didn't use his infinity stones would've won that fight. She has shown great energy output and strong durability as well along with her light-like traveling speed.




Didn't Superman get knocked unconscious after taking an atomic bomb?



Superman beat Darkshield in the movies? We are talking about their cinematic versions here. And all the avengers together would've easily taken Thanos, they were separate half half when they failed and barely failed. Together they would've won.


Superman absolutely has no chance against the Avengers. As someone said, as soon as Superman is even a bit occupied with Hulk/Marvel/Thor, Strange can finish him off, he can literally even undo damage that Superman does. And I don't even think Superman wins even with Strange not present. Captain Marvel's feats have been almost on-par with Superman (I'll give Superman the edge) but with Thor/Hulk/Vision/Witch it's just too much

Dr Fate can hold Dr Strange in check. Easily.

Superman would make chutney out of Captain Marvel. Hell, Shazam aka the original Captain Marvel would spank Captain Marvel's ass red :oldlol:

Set Wonder woman and Captain Atom on hulk and superman on Thor. Shazam on Captain Marvel. Flash and hawk girl can keep Vision busy. Martian manhunter on the Scarlett Witch. Green lantern can take on Iron man. Batman on Captain America. It's a wrap.

[MaxFly]

My money would decidedly be on an unhinged, moral-less Superman... especially under a yellow sun. We've seen versions of this Superman in the past, but rarely uncaged and out for blood. The problem with Superman is that he simply has too many powers with which to adequately contend if he isn't holding back, and he can use them in concert: strength, super speed, flight, heat vision, super hearing, super vision, x-ray vision, freeze breath, hurricane breath, durability, excellent healing factor. His Flash-lite speed and ridiculous strength alone make it difficult to defend against him. Someone with his strength hitting someone with the kind of speed he can harness would leave almost all the Avengers dead within the first second.

Thanos... that's a fun matchup. Without the Infinity gauntlent and all the stones, it's a cakewalk for an unbridled Superman; again, just too many powers and skills to deal with. Now a Thanos with the Infinity gauntlet and all the stones is tough to beat, and almost a loss for any version of Superman. However, if Superman is aware of Thanos' ability with the gauntlet, Thanos likely wouldn't have an opportunity to use it before Superman uses his speed to simply break his arm, break his fingers, or take the gauntlet from him.

[Kblaze8855]

Why else would they give a D-list character like Captain Marvel her own movie?

To make a billion dollar profit?

Movie cost 175 million and made 1.2 billion before accounting for home release and streaming.

They arent making a movie to set up a supporting xmen character.

They may let Rogue get her powers but thats not the reason to introduce her.

[Kblaze8855]

My money would decidedly be on an unhinged, moral-less Superman... especially under a yellow sun. We've seen versions of this Superman in the past, but rarely uncaged and out for blood. The problem with Superman is that he simply has too many powers with which to adequately contend if he isn't holding back, and he can use them in concert: strength, super speed, flight, heat vision, super hearing, super vision, x-ray vision, freeze breath, hurricane breath, durability, excellent healing factor. His Flash-lite speed and ridiculous strength alone make it difficult to defend against him. Someone with his strength hitting someone with the kind of speed he can harness would leave almost all the Avengers dead within the first second.

Thanos... that's a fun matchup. Without the Infinity gauntlent and all the stones, it's a cakewalk for an unbridled Superman; again, just too many powers and skills to deal with. Now a Thanos with the Infinity gauntlet and all the stones is tough to beat, and almost a loss for any version of Superman. However, if Superman is aware of Thanos' ability with the gauntlet, Thanos likely wouldn't have an opportunity to use it before Superman uses his speed to simply break his arm, break his fingers, or take the gauntlet from him.



The only way that works is Thanos making a conscious effort to weaken himself for a fight to be fun like he did in the comics....when the Surfer tried the "Come in at warp speed with super strength" thing and Thanos still dodged him. He felt stupid for letting them get close and decided to go back to full power....but it still didnt work on his limited form used to give them a fighting chance.

We are giving Superman credit for what he could do going all out but putting him against a Thanos with restrictions.

100% all out comics superman vs Gauntlet thanos isnt a fight. Superman is exactly the same threat as a blade of grass to the all out comics Thanos.

Galactus, Time and Space in physical form, and the Celestials who wipe out planets with a thought threw literal galaxies at him to no effect. Whats superman gonna do? Punch him so hard the multiverse collapses?

Beings who could actually destroy the universe couldnt stop him.

Superman is not a threat to anything on the cosmic level. Is he gonna punch the phoenix force which is just the energy of all future life in the universe? How does a punch kill life force?

Superman is physical. Hes nothing to these beings of energy. And those beings couldnt even slow Thanos down.

[MaxFly]

The only way that works is Thanos making a conscious effort to weaken himself for a fight to be fun like he did in the comics....when the Surfer tried the "Come in at warp speed with super strength" thing and Thanos still dodged him. He felt stupid for letting them get close and decided to go back to full power....but it still didnt work on his limited form used to give them a fighting chance.

We are giving Superman credit for what he could do going all out but putting him against a Thanos with restrictions.

100% all out comics superman vs Gauntlet thanos isnt a fight. Superman is exactly the same threat as a blade of grass to the all out comics Thanos.

Galactus, Time and Space in physical form, and the Celestials who wipe out planets with a thought threw literal galaxies at him to no effect. Whats superman gonna do? Punch him so hard the multiverse collapses?

Beings who could actually destroy the universe couldnt stop him.

Superman is not a threat to anything on the cosmic level. Is he gonna punch the phoenix force which is just the energy of all future life in the universe? How does a punch kill life force?

Superman is physical. Hes nothing to these beings of energy. And those beings couldnt even slow Thanos down.

Perhaps I misread, but...

MCU Avengers vs DCCU Superman

Thanos without the gauntlet doesn't have the feats in the MCU world indicating that he can deal with DCCU Superman's speed in concert with his strength and other powers. It's just not a fair match for Thanos here... especially if we're talking a resurrected Superman from JL. It's a stomp fest for Supes sans gauntlet, and it's not really close.

As I mentioned, the gauntlet is what gives Thanos his edge over Superman, but much of it depends on what Superman knows. If he knows anything about the gauntlet, an uninhibited Supes stands a fair chance in ending things embarrassingly fast.

[Kblaze8855]

The DC superman supposedly uninhibited didnt actually hurt....anyone. He knocked wonder woman back...shoulder bumped flash who got right back up....and knocked Aquaman back who also seemed unharmed. Batman is a normal human and came out unharmed. Thanos actually wiped out half the universe.

As is often the case with superman he gets credit for what you think he could do in a situation you get to control but his opponent has limitations.

Put both of them in the superman "He could...." position and ignore what they actually did Thanos can stop time, destroy the universe, or turn superman into an oreo.


As I said Superman isnt really that much of a threat....hes a "If he does this the way I think he should" threat who is still eliminated if you give everyone he faces the same credit for what they could do in an ideal situation.

The most damage superman could do is fly light speed into a planet and destroy it I suppose.

Thanos was going to destroy and rebuild the universe.

This isnt a real comparison.

[MaxFly]

The DC superman supposedly uninhibited didnt actually hurt....anyone. He knocked wonder woman back...shoulder bumped flash who got right back up....and knocked Aquaman back who also seemed unharmed. Batman is a normal human and came out unharmed. Thanos actually wiped out half the universe.

Resurrected DCCU Superman really wasn't trying to hurt that group. I think that encounter underscored the fact that even in a fog, he was incredibly powerful and incredibly restrained as he was still trying to gather himself. Lol, at that being Superman uninhibited. Only a little later, we see a jovial, smiling, "how's yo mama and them" Superman throwing Steppenwolf around like a rag doll. MCU Thanos, even without the gauntlet, is certainly more resilient, but he would get stomped in laughingly embarrassing fashion given the capabilities and power of the DCCU Superman. It's an unfair fight.

Thanos' saving grace is the gauntlet, but he's going to have to use it very quickly, otherwise he likely wouldn't get an opportunity to use it at all. And really, that's what it all boils down to: MCU Thanos is going to have to rely heavily on that gauntlet to take Supes... complete dependence on it for him to have any hope. He better work on speeding up his snap.

Outside of the gauntlet, this is a laughable comparison given their respective power levels depicted in the MCU and DCCU.

[bladefd]

Resurrected DCCU Superman really wasn't trying to hurt that group. I think that encounter underscored the fact that even in a fog, he was incredibly powerful and incredibly restrained as he was still trying to gather himself. Lol, at that being Superman uninhibited. Only a little later, we see a jovial, smiling, "how's yo mama and them" Superman throwing Steppenwolf around like a rag doll. MCU Thanos, even without the gauntlet, is certainly more resilient, but he would get stomped in laughingly embarrassing fashion given the capabilities and power of the DCCU Superman. It's an unfair fight.

Thanos' saving grace is the gauntlet, but he's going to have to use it very quickly, otherwise he likely wouldn't get an opportunity to use it at all. And really, that's what it all boils down to: MCU Thanos is going to have to rely heavily on that gauntlet to take Supes... complete dependence on it for him to have any hope. He better work on speeding up his snap.

Outside of the gauntlet, this is a laughable comparison given their respective power levels depicted in the MCU and DCCU.

I think with the gauntlet, superman loses. Without the gauntlet, Thanos loses.

[Kblaze8855]

If the superman in question didn

[bladefd]

If the superman in question didn’t fight uninhibited why are we even talking about what superman could do in a scenario you designed while ignoring what Thanos could do in a scenario we design?


Comic book version it’s not a fight at all. Thanos would win because superman is nothing more than a physical threat. In the movies we saw superman strain to break another kryptonian‘s neck and use kryptonite to kill doomsday in a movie where he was just spared by Batman who is just a clever human.

He didn’t actually defeat Steppenwolf either. He knocked him around doing him little harm and they sent him back through the portal with the parademons swarming him.

Superman is forever getting credit for what he could do hypothetically while we ignore that the superman in question never actually does anything. The Thanos in question Had the ability to literally destroy and rebuild of the universe but decided to only wipe out half the life. Superman has never and will never be anything close to that level of threat.

Only superman in an unrestrained hypothetical is a problem and when you put everyone else he’s compared to in an unrestrained hypothetical they could destroy him easily.

You simply cannot be strong or fast enough to defeat people who control time and space.

Uhh, you are overestimating Thanos. Thor with Stormbreaker almost killed Thanos, did he not? Thanos had all 6 gems. I know it was a surprise attack by Thor but Superman doing a speed blitz could leave Thanos surprised and unable to counterattack. Remember, Superman can fly as fast as Flash can run. Thanos without the gauntlet can't manipulate time or space.. He needs the gauntlet.

How is Thanos without the gauntlet stopping Superman's nuclear punches off speed blitzes of Flash speeds?

[iamgine]

Stormbreaker only worked because of magic though.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If the superman in question didn

[MaxFly]

How is Thanos without the gauntlet stopping Superman's nuclear punches off speed blitzes of Flash speeds?

He's not stopping him... I think people fail to realize the vast array of tools Superman has at his disposal. Thanos desperately needs the gauntlet to deal with an DCCU Superman level opponent; it's a mollywopping otherwise. Maybe not the mollywopping Steppenwolf got, but close enough.

[Kblaze8855]

People fail to realize that the vast tools you credit superman for using....he doesnt. He didnt in the version discussed(the movies) and he doesnt in the comics. All the superman talks about what he could do center on him super speed dashing in with punches that would crush a planet....which you have never seen him do. You are fabricating his mode of attack but not giving the other side the same benefit of fighting using all the tools at their disposal in the most efficient way possible. Which is why people forever talk about superman beating people who can alter reality.

He can punch people. He can move fast)the rest of his powers are of no consequence in a speed blitz situation). Really that makes him no more a threat than the flash if you go into the subject of infinite mass....Flash at warp speeds could hit something as hard as it could be hit by anything.

But whatever you think he could do....he doesnt. Not in the DCU. Not in the comics. Supermans issue is the same as Thanos.

Not using his full power to end fights right away. He ****s around...just like Thanos. And even in that intentionally weakened state where they tried the "Come in at light speed and snatch it off" it didnt work:


https://i.postimg.cc/s2Xn3281/main-qimg-ffe07913f67d8012070310b12820bfc1.jpg






You dismiss what happens in the comics to focus on the less powerful MCU version of Thanos....but when its superman we dismiss that hes out here fighting regular humans and losing by being outsmarted and not hurting people as physically weak as the flash.

All the things you credit him for doing is because you know from the source material he could....if he wanted to....and you get to decide how he fights. But you deny his opponents the same advantage because thats the only way superman is ever worth talking about.

Its always "Couldnt he just fly in at light speed and tear his head off?" based on his comicbook ability which he never uses in the DCU while ignoring that the comic book ability of Thanos which is not shown in the MCU...is him literally being the equal of god.



Why does only superman get "If he used his powers perfectly...." credit but not thanos?

Thanos could stop time at the first sign of conflict, teleport to another planet, turn the earth and everyone on it into dust and go take a nap.

Why do you give Superman best case scenario but keep his opponents fighting the way they actually fought?

The way superman ACTUALLY fights in movies or comics?

Hes not a threat. Hes too soft to do what needs doing right away. If we remove the plot induced stupidity from him why make all his opponents keep it?

[Shogon]

Superman is a beta cuck. End of story.

[bladefd]

Why does only superman get "If he used his powers perfectly...." credit but not thanos?

Thanos could stop time at the first sign of conflict, teleport to another planet, turn the earth and everyone on it into dust and go take a nap.

Why do you give Superman best case scenario but keep his opponents fighting the way they actually fought?

The way superman ACTUALLY fights in movies or comics?

Hes not a threat. Hes too soft to do what needs doing right away. If we remove the plot induced stupidity from him why make all his opponents keep it?

Are you saying Thanos can manipulate space and time without the gauntlet? I'm of the understanding he cannot without the stones.

[MaxFly]

People fail to realize that the vast tools you credit superman for using....he doesnt. He didnt in the version discussed(the movies) and he doesnt in the comics. All the superman talks about what he could do center on him super speed dashing in with punches that would crush a planet....which you have never seen him do. You are fabricating his mode of attack but not giving the other side the same benefit of fighting using all the tools at their disposal in the most efficient way possible. Which is why people forever talk about superman beating people who can alter reality.

Superman used both his strength and his speed in dealing with Steppenwolf. He also did so during his encounter with the Justice League. He has done so quite often in the comics, and in the cartoons and animated movies, in addition to his other powers. What actual tools does Thanos have without the gauntlet?


You dismiss what happens in the comics to focus on the less powerful MCU version of Thanos....but when its superman we dismiss that hes out here fighting regular humans and losing by being outsmarted and not hurting people as physically weak as the flash.

Thanos was beaten by Squirrel Girl in the comics... Squirrel Girl. Captain America gave him the business for awhile in the movie. Tony made him bleed. DCCU Superman would stomp. Bleeding would be the least of Thanos' worries.

If we're posting random panels from the comics...

https://i.ibb.co/0XrXqvN/main-qimg-38146707d7d280c7a900031ae40d4c3e-c.jpg

We can start posting stills from the animated movies and tv shows as well.

[MaxFly]

https://i.postimg.cc/s2Xn3281/main-qimg-ffe07913f67d8012070310b12820bfc1.jpg

Word?

http://media.comicbook.com/2018/04/thanos-best-marvel-villain-squirrel-girl-1100644.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

Squirrel girl stalemated galactus according to Spider-Man. If we are treating joke panels and so on as serious Superman beating Darkseid isn

[Kblaze8855]

Superman used both his strength and his speed in dealing with Steppenwolf. He also did so during his encounter with the Justice League. He has done so quite often in the comics, and in the cartoons and animated movies, in addition to his other powers. What actual tools does Thanos have without the gauntlet?



If using his speed and strength resulted in no real harm to anyone including a powerless human what are we even talking about?

As I said he has not used what you suggest he has you are simply going off what you know he is capable of and giving him credit for it while not giving his opponent credit for what we know he is capable of.

If superman were as mighty as people suggest he wouldn

[Doctor K]

Dr Fate can hold Dr Strange in check. Easily.

Superman would make chutney out of Captain Marvel. Hell, Shazam aka the original Captain Marvel would spank Captain Marvel's ass red :oldlol:

Set Wonder woman and Captain Atom on hulk and superman on Thor. Shazam on Captain Marvel. Flash and hawk girl can keep Vision busy. Martian manhunter on the Scarlett Witch. Green lantern can take on Iron man. Batman on Captain America. It's a wrap.
Dr. Fate? Green Lantern? Martian manhunter? I'm sorry but this is a completely different JL universe than the one that exists today and the one OP is talking about.

Also, Shazam, with his intellect, gets destroyed by Captain Marvel.

[Doctor K]

Were're talking MCU and DCCU versions of these characters and "what if" scenarios. I'm going off of what the OP posted and the title of the thread. Quite frankly, DCCU Superman, morals on and all, would humiliate MCU Thanos without the gauntlet. No morals and the credits are rolling as soon as the location shot of the fight is established. It's a laughable fight. Thanos is going to desperately need that gauntlet or some other sort of crutch against DCCU Supes. And even with the gauntlet, he better not hesitate.



Lol, after trying to talk Batman down and inhaling kryptonite gas a few times... and being nuked... in the space of 20 minutes.

He mollywopped Steppenwolf. Punched and threw him around the room and had him straining to get up. He went and did other things and came back to knock him around a little more, just for giggles, and all with a smile on his face. Dude was cracking jokes.



...unless the person wielding that power needs to snap their fingers or carry out some other machination to control time and space. If Superman knows anything about the gauntlet, Thanos is going to have to be exceedingly quick with his handwave, arm turn or whatever he needs to do to carry out his attack and to keep possession of the gauntlet. Again, the gauntlet gives MCU Thanos a big leg up, but even then it's not a guaranteed win if he isn't fast in using it. What is a guaranteed win is the one for DCCU Superman without the gauntlet... that's not even close... it's an embarrassing stomp fest to be honest given Thanos' dependency on the gauntlet.

I agree with you, without the gauntlet, DCEU Superman > MCU Thanos.

However, with the gauntlet the gap is even bigger in favor of Thanos not smaller.


You say "with knowledge/prep" Superman can do this and that, well if Thanos is also given knowledge of Superman, he could use the Time Stone to even see different outcomes the fight and adjust accordingly.

Without knowledge, Superman, the DCEU version, just stares him down maybe throws a punch, and then gets wrecked in so many different ways. End of fight.

Also, Thanos in MCU has shown some pretty impressive reactionary feats, you don't have to be lightning fast to react to something lightning fast. We have seen that in movies, Dark Phoenix was able to react to quicksilver despite never being nearly as quick. Thanos in the beginning of Infinity War was able to react and use his stones against Loki's surprise attack while Loki was inches away from him, and Loki has been known to be a quick sneaky character. There are plenty of others. I think if he can do that, he can react to Superman coming from distance yards away.

[Doctor K]

My money would decidedly be on an unhinged, moral-less Superman... especially under a yellow sun. We've seen versions of this Superman in the past, but rarely uncaged and out for blood. The problem with Superman is that he simply has too many powers with which to adequately contend if he isn't holding back, and he can use them in concert: strength, super speed, flight, heat vision, super hearing, super vision, x-ray vision, freeze breath, hurricane breath, durability, excellent healing factor. His Flash-lite speed and ridiculous strength alone make it difficult to defend against him. Someone with his strength hitting someone with the kind of speed he can harness would leave almost all the Avengers dead within the first second.

.

Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.

[Micku]

Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.


It depends on whoever is writing.

Superman should be able to punch Capt and Black Panther and kill them. He's too fast and is another class too strong. But it depends if Supes is stronger than Thanos physically. Thanos punched Capt, but didn't kill him. With Doctor Strange, it depends on his reaction speed. If he uses his magic on time before Supes can attack, then he could mess with him. Especially if he has the time stone. If not, one shot, he should be dead. And it depends on what magic that Dr. Strange uses. Scarlet Witch would be the same thing as Doc Strange.

Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel could all take a hit. IM could be similar too. He also took a few punches from Thanos and didn't die. Vision too maybe.

Supes do have a lot of powers and with no morals, he should be able to speed blitz all of them. The only ppl who could hurt him would be Doctor Strange, Thor, and maybe Scarlet Witch.

Capt Marvel, I don't know yet. While she would be able to absorb the heat vision and tap into her binary state, don't know if she's strong enough to handle supes. Might be able to hold her own for a time.

Hulk has to get angry enough to go into his max potential, but he got his ass kicked by Thanos.

But Thanos with the IG would be able to defeat Supes. He would just turn him into dust or he could turn him into anything he wants. But, it seems like he has to snap or do some physical movement with the IG to activate it in the MCU. So, if Supes knew about it, he could speed blitz Thanos and take it off. In the comics tho, Supes dead.

All in all tho, it's not TOO much of a stretch that he could kill some of the Avengers in less than a second using his speed. I don't think in the DCCU that Supes moved in light speed, but still has Flash like speed (could he go light speed in the movies?). With a person with that much strength and speed, he should be able take them out one by one with a upper cut or punch through their chest without them realizing what happened. But Supes is never written like that, even with no morals off except for a few instances. It tends to be a logical inconsistent, but it builds up drama.

Like remember this scene from Age of Ultron between Quicksilver and Capt?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec-p6BhGM6w#t=01m40s

Supes can move that fast. A punch from Supes with no morals off, that head goes off. This should happen with a few of the Avengers.

[Kblaze8855]

Someone wanna point out to me this no morals speed blitzing DCU superman and tell me how I missed him?

If he was no morals superman vs the justice league....he still didnt seriously injure anyone including a fully human batman who didnt even have the batman/superman power suit on.

The closest he comes to no morals is when he killed Zod but he was broken up about it. The no morals superman doesnt exist in the movies. And if thats the superman we are talking about....we are clearly giving him a hypothetical ruthless mindstate and assuming he does things he never actually does.

So again....why doesnt the other side get the same credit? And plus....we are giving Superman pre existing knowledge of the gauntlet and its weaknesses?

You think Tony Stark with pre existing knowledge of superman and his weakness wouldnt be able to kill him when Batman was able to but spared him? Give Thanos or Ironman advanced knowledge of superman hed be fighting under a floating chunk of Krypton the size of Brooklyn and die as he approached.

Plenty of people have kicked supermans ass just off knowing he needs yellow sunlight and is killed by kryponite. The Joker...Luthor....random humans with red light rooms and so on.

Thanos would probably stay on a planet under a red sun and wait. Even at light speed it takes several minutes to cross a solar system. If superman could even get there....he wouldnt be full strength....and Thanos would know about his other weakness(s). There are so many ways superman loses in a fair fight....but we only wanna give him the advantage I suppose. Because he needs it.

[Charlie Sheen]

We talking stormbreaker Thor with that almost all Avengers dead in the 1st second stuff? No chance. Watch the Wakanda battle again. Supes isn't speed blitzing anything and ignoring Thor.

[highwhey]

Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.

[bladefd]

Dr. Fate? Green Lantern? Martian manhunter? I'm sorry but this is a completely different JL universe than the one that exists today and the one OP is talking about.

Also, Shazam, with his intellect, gets destroyed by Captain Marvel.

Shazam is almost as powerful as Superman. The two fought head to head and Shazam held his own against an angry Superman. Shazam can hold down the fort against Captain Marvel, at least until Superman murders Thor. Then Superman can go finish off whatever is left of Iron man, hulk, vision, etc before returning to assist Shazam in slaughtering Captain Marvel.

[bladefd]

Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.

Jeez.. I can't stop laughing at your post but I will let it be. :roll: :roll:

[Doctor K]

Shazam is almost as powerful as Superman. The two fought head to head and Shazam held his own against an angry Superman. Shazam can hold down the fort against Captain Marvel, at least until Superman murders Thor. Then Superman can go finish off whatever is left of Iron man, hulk, vision, etc before returning to assist Shazam in slaughtering Captain Marvel.
I'm not sure if you are serious. Do you think Dr. Strange this whole time just sits there and watches and waits for Superman to come to him? :facepalm

Superman's weakness has always been magic and Dr. Strange has plenty of it. Once he uses some on Superman, this fight is over.

[Doctor K]

It depends on whoever is writing.

Superman should be able to punch Capt and Black Panther and kill them. He's too fast and is another class too strong. But it depends if Supes is stronger than Thanos physically. Thanos punched Capt, but didn't kill him. With Doctor Strange, it depends on his reaction speed. If he uses his magic on time before Supes can attack, then he could mess with him. Especially if he has the time stone. If not, one shot, he should be dead. And it depends on what magic that Dr. Strange uses. Scarlet Witch would be the same thing as Doc Strange.

Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel could all take a hit. IM could be similar too. He also took a few punches from Thanos and didn't die. Vision too maybe.

Supes do have a lot of powers and with no morals, he should be able to speed blitz all of them. The only ppl who could hurt him would be Doctor Strange, Thor, and maybe Scarlet Witch.

Capt Marvel, I don't know yet. While she would be able to absorb the heat vision and tap into her binary state, don't know if she's strong enough to handle supes. Might be able to hold her own for a time.

Hulk has to get angry enough to go into his max potential, but he got his ass kicked by Thanos.

But Thanos with the IG would be able to defeat Supes. He would just turn him into dust or he could turn him into anything he wants. But, it seems like he has to snap or do some physical movement with the IG to activate it in the MCU. So, if Supes knew about it, he could speed blitz Thanos and take it off. In the comics tho, Supes dead.

All in all tho, it's not TOO much of a stretch that he could kill some of the Avengers in less than a second using his speed. I don't think in the DCCU that Supes moved in light speed, but still has Flash like speed (could he go light speed in the movies?). With a person with that much strength and speed, he should be able take them out one by one with a upper cut or punch through their chest without them realizing what happened. But Supes is never written like that, even with no morals off except for a few instances. It tends to be a logical inconsistent, but it builds up drama.

Like remember this scene from Age of Ultron between Quicksilver and Capt?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec-p6BhGM6w#t=01m40s

Supes can move that fast. A punch from Supes with no morals off, that head goes off. This should happen with a few of the Avengers.

I agree with he could kill some of them in 1 punch, but the original statement was "almost all" which is what I disagreed with.

Ironman - no
Vision - no
Captain Marvel - no
Thor - no
Hulk - no
Spiderman/Captain America/Black Panther - maybe
rest- probably

[Doctor K]

Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.
Dark Phoenix >

[Micku]

Someone wanna point out to me this no morals speed blitzing DCU superman and tell me how I missed him?

If he was no morals superman vs the justice league....he still didnt seriously injure anyone including a fully human batman who didnt even have the batman/superman power suit on.

The closest he comes to no morals is when he killed Zod but he was broken up about it. The no morals superman doesnt exist in the movies. And if thats the superman we are talking about....we are clearly giving him a hypothetical ruthless mindstate and assuming he does things he never actually does.

So again....why doesnt the other side get the same credit? And plus....we are giving Superman pre existing knowledge of the gauntlet and its weaknesses?

You think Tony Stark with pre existing knowledge of superman and his weakness wouldnt be able to kill him when Batman was able to but spared him? Give Thanos or Ironman advanced knowledge of superman hed be fighting under a floating chunk of Krypton the size of Brooklyn and die as he approached.

Plenty of people have kicked supermans ass just off knowing he needs yellow sunlight and is killed by kryponite. The Joker...Luthor....random humans with red light rooms and so on.

Thanos would probably stay on a planet under a red sun and wait. Even at light speed it takes several minutes to cross a solar system. If superman could even get there....he wouldnt be full strength....and Thanos would know about his other weakness(s). There are so many ways superman loses in a fair fight....but we only wanna give him the advantage I suppose. Because he needs it.

Of course morals Superman exist in the movies. He straight up told Batman that if he wanted to, Bats would've been dead already in Batman vs Superman. That whole fought was morals on, holding back Superman. Batman used kryptonite as the advantage which Supes had no knowledge of, but Supes on his potential last breath just wanted him to save Martha.

If I can recall, he doesn't kill those terrorist in the movies. The only ones that he killed are Zodd and Doomsday.

Honestly, Batman against Superman would stand no chance if Superman were to have out to kill him. This does depend on the writer too. The whole thing was dumb since Superman could've just speed blitz to save his own mother.

He could've killed the Justice League in the movies. What could they do to hurt him? The fact he was able to react and keep up with the Flash, shows just potentially how he could wipe them all out before they even realize what happened.

And again with the Avengers. Superman is too fast. Seeing as quicksilver is too fast for the Avengers, Supes could potentially could one shot Capt America, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Falcon, Winter Solder, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. He should one shot Spiderman, but Spidy could potentially dodge it depending on how fast Supes is going and the spider sense.

The only ones that could take a hit would be Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel, Vision and Ironman. But they would not be able to keep up with him. Supes is too fast and has too many powers. And the only ones that could legit hurt him would be Capt Marvel in her binary state possibly, Hulk if his angry enough, Thor and Strange with their magic, and Scarlet Witch.

If they have any pre prep knowledge, then probably the Avengers would win assuming if they have kryptonite. They might need it if they have Dr. Strange.

If they don't, and if Supes have no morals and is bloodlusted, how can they defeat him? They have to rely on magic. Maaaaybe Capt Marvel, Hulk and Thor may have the brute force to hurt him, but it won't take him down.

Like legit, how strong is Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Cyborg in the movies? Are they Thor or Capt Marvel level? IM level? Base Hulk level? If all three can't even push Superman, he stood still as a statue, and Supes just throw them like it's nothing, then I feel like it would be only a matter of time before he takes down some of the heavy hitters in Marvel.

[Doctor K]

And again with the Avengers. Superman is too fast. Seeing as quicksilver is too fast for the Avengers, Supes could potentially could one shot Capt America, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Falcon, Winter Solder, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. He should one shot Spiderman, but Spidy could potentially dodge it depending on how fast Supes is going and the spider sense.

The only ones that could take a hit would be Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel and Ironman. But they would not be able to keep up with him. Supes is too fast and has too many powers. And the only ones that could legit hurt him would be Capt Marvel in her binary state possibly, Hulk if his angry enough, Thor and Strange with their magic, and Scarlet Witch.

If they have any pre prep knowledge, then probably the Avengers would win assuming if they have kryptonite. They might need it if they have Dr. Strange.

If they don't, and if Supes have no morals and is bloodlusted, how can they defeat him? They have to rely on magic. Maaaaybe Capt Marvel, Hulk and Thor may have the brute force to hurt him, but it won't take him down.

If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.

[Doctor K]

Here's how I see it going down in the movies


1st there is a long stand-off where each side just stares each other down. Then Superman and Thor charge at each other, Superman gets the best of it but after that he's hit with a strong punch from Hulk, which he takes and then charges at Hulk but at that point Wanda slows him down with her TK, then Vision gets a infinity stone energy blast at him, Ironman blasts him with firepower, Captain Marvel unleashes some of her energy, Thor blasts him with Thunder, and its kind of like the Age of Ultron scene where Superman is slowly getting weaker, and then Dr. Strange finishes him off with some magic trick and the fight is over.

[Micku]

Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.

DCCU Supes may not compete. Comic book Superman is different. It just depends on which era you use.

Plus DB is inconsistent. Similar to Supes in that way too.

In Battle of the Gods, Goku fighting with Beerus was about to destroy the Universe. Yet him fighting with Goku Black and Golden Frieza in a powerful form, the discussion did not come up.

Bullets sting base Goku in Super. While in the original DB, kid Goku took a bullet to the face with Bulma and the Red Ribbon Army.

In the manga (I know the manga and anime are different, but to make a point), I think...SSJ1 Vegeta had trouble with lifting 1000 tons right here:
https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2314034-magetta-weighs-1-000-tons-ssj-vegeta-weak/#&gid=40485064&pid=3076349016

Depending on which Superman you use, that's nothing. All Star superman (not canon) did 200 Quintillion Ton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAJTfH13Pw

That's an absurd number. Any SSJ1 form don't stand a chance against that level of strength.

Silver age Supes got him moving like more than 10 planets at once.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/24615564911_b3a84b30c2_o.jpg

Striking power is different. Beerus was shown to split a planet with his finger tip. I saw a scan in which Superman in post crisis was able to split one of Saturn's moon apart. This one:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4235136-2608248-____smashing_the_moon_____.jpg

It does depend on which Superman you use and try to get all the logically inconsistency out of the way with both of them. Movie Supes don't have enough feats to stand against Goku tho.

[bladefd]

If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.

Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern to savagely obliterate the Avengers. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.

[Facepalm]

Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.

Strange separates Superman's soul from his body and transports him to the astral realm. Done deal.

Going by movies I would have

Thor > Superman (magic lightning weakness, just like how Shazam beat him in Kingdom Come)
Hulk < Shazam (Shazam has more powers but Hulk has more durability and strength, however MCU Hulk is nerfed compared to comic version so I'll go with Shazam)
Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman (Marvel has similar strength and training as WW, but she also has more powers)
CA > Batman (Assuming no prep, CA is an enhanced super soldier with an indestructible shield also, this Batman is older)
Vision = Cyborg (Cyborg has the motherbox, Vision has the soulstone. I'm calling this even)
Quicksilver = Flash (Yes I know Flash beats Quicksilver in the comics but in the movies they are pretty much equal)

Scarlet Witch, Widow, Hawkeye, Panther, Spiderman, Dr. Strange, Ironman, Winter Soldier, Ant Man, Wasp, War Machine > Aquaman (Aquaman is pretty durable, but Avengers win here with shear numbers. Avengers win this handily)

[bladefd]

Strange separates Superman's soul from his body and transports him to the astral realm. Done deal.

Again, Strange needs time to do the spell and hand-signs.

[Facepalm]

Again, Strange needs time to do the spell and hand-signs.
He has plenty of backup to occupy Superman while he performs those handsigns. Superman will be to busy dealing with tanks such as Thor, Capt. Marvel, Hulk, Iron Man, Vision and War Machine. Also, which Strange is he gonna go after?

https://img.youtube.com/vi/UwtYt3PqAcg/mqdefault.jpg

[Doctor K]

Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern to savagely obliterate the Avengers. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.

As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail

[rezznor]

As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail


sounds like we need a comic book draft

[Micku]

If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.

I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.

[Doctor K]

I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.

Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.

[Facepalm]

Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.

People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.

[bladefd]

As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail

Same could be said going the other way. Nobody on Avengers team would know Superman's durability or abilities/powers. Why would Strange or Witch even target Superman from the get-go or Avengers even feel the need to put Hulk, Thor and/or Captain Marvel on Strange/Witch guard duty to protect from Superman/Flash/Shazam/Wonder-woman? They don't know Superman is weak to magic either.

Justice League can figure out quickly who the magic users are based on their opening attacks so they can quickly gauge who to go after. Chances of Avengers figuring out Superman is weak to magic and to go after him first after just the opening act are slim to none. By the time they figure it out, half the Avengers would probably be dead.

[Micku]

Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.

I wouldn't say that 99/100 Avengers would prevail. All of them are weaker than their comic book counterpart except for Captain America and maybe Capt Marvel? Supes is too, but he still have too many powers and near invincibility to make most of the Avengers useless against him. It's only like three-five members that could harm him. Thor, Capt Marvel, Hulk (if angry enough), and Strange? Maybe Vision? Scarlet Witch could slow him down, but apparently she'll be more closer to her comic book counter part in the new Strange movie.

With Thor with stormbreaker, I dunno if it could cut Supes. But I suppose so, given the dwarven magic, and it took a full beam of the infinity stones and cut Thanos.

However, I dunno if Thanos is more durable than Supes in the MCU. It doesn't seem like it since Spider and Capt could get Thanos to stagger a little bit with their attacks. Inconsistent writing maybe, but y'know. Supes wouldn't feel it.

With Capt Marvel, I dunno. Perhaps. There is a difference between travel speed and combat speed. She never really moved faster than anyone could react in combat. She never displayed almost like time stopping speed like Flash and Quicksilver. Superman did that. Like Ironman could move faster than sound in flight. But he can't fight as fast and he doesn't have that type of reaction time.

In her binary state, maybe she could deal with him? Need another movie to really say. She did take a headbutt from Thanos like it was nothing, and he kicked the Hulk's ass. Supes could be the same tho.

Not to say the Avengers can't beat Supes tho. If stormbreaker could cut Supes, all they need to do is get one good hit in. And Doctor Strange could trap him. But Supes biggest advantage is that he's too fast. Combine that with him probably stronger than anybody in the MCU, and durability that might be tougher than Thanos then it's hard to really beat him.

Like Wonder Woman reaction time is really good. She could react to bullets as if they were slow motion. And she could move at super sonic speed. Superman made Wonder Woman look super slow.

So, it just depends. As I said before, they really should not be able to hit Superman. He's too fast. And is strong enough to really one shot all the non heavy hitters. Only a few heroes could take a hit, but not for long. If they can't touch Quicksilver or the Flash, they won't be able to touch Superman. What good is the lighting from Thor if Supes just sidesteps away, run super fast up to your face, and poke your eyeballs out before you even realize what happened? Or give you a good few body shots and a upper cut? It would never happen that way cuz nobody writes like that. I don't wann'a give a number on it of the chances.

Lets say if ALL the avengers were there, in a middle of a city. I would say, it depends on who makes the first move. I would say probably the Hulk. He's the most wild and loose. Hulk would try to punch him, Superman may tank it for a bit before he punches the Hulk away or punches him to space. Unless it's professor Hulk then it might be Thor, IM or Capt Marvel.

If superman makes the first move, it just depends on who he targets. I would imagine it would his heat vision or his cold breath. But again, if Strange gets him in the mirror dimension, it's over. Time stone? It's over. If the stormbreaker could cut through Supes and if they find a way to catch him off guard or he believes he could tank it, it's over.

If this was comic version Marvel, then it would be Thor, Hulk, and Strange would be the biggest threats.

[Micku]

People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.

If Thor can even touch him. Supes too fast.

[highwhey]

DCCU Supes may not compete. Comic book Superman is different. It just depends on which era you use.

Plus DB is inconsistent. Similar to Supes in that way too.

In Battle of the Gods, Goku fighting with Beerus was about to destroy the Universe. Yet him fighting with Goku Black and Golden Frieza in a powerful form, the discussion did not come up.

Bullets sting base Goku in Super. While in the original DB, kid Goku took a bullet to the face with Bulma and the Red Ribbon Army.

In the manga (I know the manga and anime are different, but to make a point), I think...SSJ1 Vegeta had trouble with lifting 1000 tons right here:
https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2314034-magetta-weighs-1-000-tons-ssj-vegeta-weak/#&gid=40485064&pid=3076349016

Depending on which Superman you use, that's nothing. All Star superman (not canon) did 200 Quintillion Ton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAJTfH13Pw

That's an absurd number. Any SSJ1 form don't stand a chance against that level of strength.

Silver age Supes got him moving like more than 10 planets at once.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/24615564911_b3a84b30c2_o.jpg

Striking power is different. Beerus was shown to split a planet with his finger tip. I saw a scan in which Superman in post crisis was able to split one of Saturn's moon apart. This one:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4235136-2608248-____smashing_the_moon_____.jpg

It does depend on which Superman you use and try to get all the logically inconsistency out of the way with both of them. Movie Supes don't have enough feats to stand against Goku tho.

just so we're clear, Goku created a galaxy just by powering up...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111256849/6309932-goku%20power.png

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Squirrel girl stalemated galactus according to Spider-Man. If we are treating joke panels and so on as serious Superman beating Darkseid isn

[Kblaze8855]

You realize squirrel girl is literally a joke character who had a run being unbeatable as a writer having a laugh right? And not that it matters but the Thanos she beat was a clone. This was after she beat dr.doom and fought galactus.

If we are at the point of joke panels as an argument I

[MaxFly]

If using his speed and strength resulted in no real harm to anyone including a powerless human what are we even talking about?


He wasn't really trying to kill anyone... he wasn't evil, moral-less or particularly unhinged. As I mentioned before, he was still in a fog after being re-animated and wasn't doing much more than defending himself in that standoff after he was inadvertently attacked by cyborg. That was evident by how quickly he snapped back to himself when Lois showed up.


As I said he has not used what you suggest he has you are simply going off what you know he is capable of and giving him credit for it while not giving his opponent credit for what we know he is capable of.

We have quite a bit of info as to what DCCU Superman is capable of; for instance, the fight with the Kryptonians (his first fight against anyone really) and his no-holds-barred fight with Zod that ended up with with Zod dead. We see his speed, strength and flight all in play, even though he was extremely inexperienced and messy. His treatment of Steppenwolf as little more than a rag doll depicted just how powerful he had become at that point and how much control he had over his powers. He used his speed and flight to easily dodge and preempt Steppenwolf's attacks... all with a smile on his face. And he used his strength to toss him around. DCCU Supes has feats.

What is Thanos capable of without the gauntlet? What are his MCU feats?

[Charlie Sheen]

People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.
If they fought 100 times? Superman is winning a steady majority 1v1. It won't be a stomp. Thor's durable but he doesn't have an answer for superman's speed feats in the movies.

[MaxFly]

You realize squirrel girl is literally a joke character who had a run being unbeatable as a writer having a laugh right? And not that it matters but the Thanos she beat was a clone. This was after she beat dr.doom and fought galactus.

Lol, read for me the last things that Watcher says in that panel?

http://media.comicbook.com/2018/04/thanos-best-marvel-villain-squirrel-girl-1100644.jpeg


If we are at the point of joke panels as an argument I’m guessing you realized the Superman argument is mostly based on an unfair premise to begin with which is making him the most dangerous he can possibly be, giving him knowledge of what he must do to win, and leaving his opponents ignorant of the ways to stop him and fighting restrained while he operates in the way he never actually does.

Lol, what is MCU Thanos, without the gauntlet, going to be able to accomplish against DCCU Superman. We've seen both their abilities and power levels. Thanos is going to desperately need the gauntlet to win... it's his crutch... that's pretty evident.

[Micku]

just so we're clear, Goku created a galaxy just by powering up...


Goku didn't create a galaxy. There are no stars, lol. It was his aura. It looks like a spiral galaxy.

In DB heroes, SSB Goku and Vegeta have shown to destroy a galaxy. But it's non canon. I haven't kept up with the Super manga, so I don't know if they have done this yet.

But Goku could beat current movie Superman. He could probably beat the DCAU Superman. Could beat a couple of comic version of Superman, but not all of them. Could beat new 52 Supes pre Doomsday Clock. Perhaps not current Supes, but I gott'a catch up reading on it.

But even then, Goku and Vegeta may have to go beyond SSJ1 to beat current movie Superman. Although striking power is different than lifting, Supes could lift more than SSJ1 Vegeta Super manga.

You see this ship?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/5910955-giphy.gif

This is could be the NoCGV Svalbard, which weighs about 6,375 tons. Supes doing this with ease on ice. And this building here:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/6448362-lifts%20entire%20building%20and%20carries%20it%20a way%20casually.gif

Could be about 7000 tons.

So, at the very least, Supes could lift 7 times more than SSJ1 Vegeta while he struggled to lift 1000 tons. You can argue about the inconsistency and that they could lift more and I would agree. I think Goku while in ssb was able to move and do a kamehamha in small black hole in the tournament of power. I think the real answer to Goku's strength and stuff is that the creators don't really care about it that much for it make sense. Whatever makes it hype.

And with MCU Thanos, I dunno know if he could beat current movie Supes. W/o the gauntlet anyway. Supes could be stronger, and definitely is faster. I don't really know why they depowered Thanos that much in the movies, but he was still a force to be reckon with.

[MaxFly]

Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.

I'm referring to the standard members who were actually Avengers in the MCU universe at the time. BP and Marvel weren't really Avengers. Also... Iron Man, BP and Captain America surviving this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnAw3E_mLh8&t=2m58s)? And that was inexperienced, first real fight, just learned to fly, Superman.

[MaxFly]

Someone wanna point out to me this no morals speed blitzing DCU superman and tell me how I missed him?


He did it in the comics vs The Elite... though he had morals on.


If he was no morals superman vs the justice league....he still didnt seriously injure anyone including a fully human batman who didnt even have the batman/superman power suit on.

He wasn't... just foggy.


The closest he comes to no morals is when he killed Zod but he was broken up about it. The no morals superman doesnt exist in the movies. And if thats the superman we are talking about....we are clearly giving him a hypothetical ruthless mindstate and assuming he does things he never actually does.

Morals were on... he killed Zod because he had no choice. Also, that was his first real fight. But we see what appears to be a no morals Superman in the nightmare scene Batman experiences.


So again....why doesnt the other side get the same credit? And plus....we are giving Superman pre existing knowledge of the gauntlet and its weaknesses?

No one is giving Superman knowledge of the gauntlet's weaknesses... simply it's power. The point was that Thanos should win in most scenarios against Superman as long as he has the gauntlet, but if Superman is aware of the gauntlet's power with the stones, Thanos would have far less leeway. That simply speaks to how powerful DCCU Superman is.

Let's forget the gauntlet for a second. What is MCU Thanos doing without the gauntlet in a matchup against DCCU Superman?

[highwhey]

Goku didn't create a galaxy. There are no stars, lol. It was his aura. It looks like a spiral galaxy.

In DB heroes, SSB Goku and Vegeta have shown to destroy a galaxy. But it's non canon. I haven't kept up with the Super manga, so I don't know if they have done this yet.

But Goku could beat current movie Superman. He could probably beat the DCAU Superman. Could beat a couple of comic version of Superman, but not all of them. Could beat new 52 Supes pre Doomsday Clock. Perhaps not current Supes, but I gott'a catch up reading on it.

But even then, Goku and Vegeta may have to go beyond SSJ1 to beat current movie Superman. Although striking power is different than lifting, Supes could lift more than SSJ1 Vegeta Super manga.

You see this ship?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/5910955-giphy.gif

This is could be the NoCGV Svalbard, which weighs about 6,375 tons. Supes doing this with ease on ice. And this building here:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/6448362-lifts%20entire%20building%20and%20carries%20it%20a way%20casually.gif

Could be about 7000 tons.

So, at the very least, Supes could lift 7 times more than SSJ1 Vegeta while he struggled to lift 1000 tons. You can argue about the inconsistency and that they could lift more and I would agree. I think Goku while in ssb was able to move and do a kamehamha in small black hole in the tournament of power. I think the real answer to Goku's strength and stuff is that the creators don't really care about it that much for it make sense. Whatever makes it hype.

And with MCU Thanos, I dunno know if he could beat current movie Supes. W/o the gauntlet anyway. Supes could be stronger, and definitely is faster. I don't really know why they depowered Thanos that much in the movies, but he was still a force to be reckon with.
you realize Goku is way stronger in Super than SS1 right?



Goku: 3,000,000

Goku (SSJ1): 150,000,000

Frieza (100%): 120,000,000

Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku = 16,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = Octillion

Jiren (100%) = 10,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = Octillion

[highwhey]

i came through this video of spiderman meets the beyonder (cartoon).


man what ever happened to these awesome cartoons with a good plot. i mean, this had a philosophical component to it.

https://youtu.be/FvCimK4AsXE

[Micku]

you realize Goku is way stronger in Super than SS1 right?

Man, he's supposed to be way stronger as a SSJ1 in Super than he was when he fought Frieza yet him and Vegeta in the manga can't lift 1000 tons. Which makes no sense. Remember how Vegeta was doing 300Gs? If Vegeta weigh about 60 kgs or whatever and doing 300Gs, his body would weigh more than 150 tons. That's his base form. If you multiple it by x50 for SSJ1, he should be doing more than just 1000 tons.

Regardless, they have turn beyond just SSJ1 for movie Supes. Maybe SSJ2. I don't know or think they have to go SSB for movie Supes.

Comic book version, is another animal. MUI Goku is a beast. But it always depends on which version of Supes. Pre crisis Supes? All Star Supes? Post crisis? Superman 1 million? 52 Supes? Post Doomsday Clock/Rebirth Supes? DCAU Supes? Etc, etc.

And wait, they are still posting official power levels? I thought they been stopped since the Frieza saga?


i came through this video of spiderman meets the beyonder (cartoon).


man what ever happened to these awesome cartoons with a good plot. i mean, this had a philosophical component to it.

https://youtu.be/FvCimK4AsXE

The 90s ended :cry:

[highwhey]

Man, he's supposed to be way stronger as a SSJ1 in Super than he was when he fought Frieza yet him and Vegeta in the manga can't lift 1000 tons. Which makes no sense. Remember how Vegeta was doing 300Gs? If Vegeta weigh about 60 kgs or whatever and doing 300Gs, his body would weigh more than 150 tons. That's his base form. If you multiple it by x50 for SSJ1, he should be doing more than just 1000 tons.

Regardless, they have turn beyond just SSJ1 for movie Supes. Maybe SSJ2. I don't know or think they have to go SSB for movie Supes.

Comic book version, is another animal. MUI Goku is a beast. But it always depends on which version of Supes. Pre crisis Supes? All Star Supes? Post crisis? Superman 1 million? 52 Supes? Post Doomsday Clock/Rebirth Supes? DCAU Supes? Etc, etc.

And wait, they are still posting official power levels? I thought they been stopped since the Frieza saga?



The 90s ended :cry:
Not official estimates, more like based on video game power levels.

I still think that because Goke can dodge any attack with Full MUI while simultaneously attacking opponents, he can defeat thanos or superman.

All these arguments become silly when factoring in the most powerful characters in their respective universes.

I admit i have never read marvel comics so idk how deep their roster runs but I'm guessing they have thousands of characters.

The beyonder seems like an interesting character.

[Micku]

Not official estimates, more like based on video game power levels.

I still think that because Goke can dodge any attack with Full MUI while simultaneously attacking opponents, he can defeat thanos or superman.

All these arguments become silly when factoring in the most powerful characters in their respective universes.

I admit i have never read marvel comics so idk how deep their roster runs but I'm guessing they have thousands of characters.

The beyonder seems like an interesting character.

You should read some Marvel Comics dude. I dunno about the newer ones, I haven't checked them out since Civil War 2. I'm starting to read Immortal Hulk. But Old Man Logan is a badass story. Planet Hulk and World War Hulk are great. That's the Hulk at his best, and you don't really need to read any comics prior. Infinitely Gauntlet is awesome too. Thanos is way more powerful than his movie counter part with and without the gauntlet. When he uses the stones, there's no drawback. It's amazing how they even "defeat" him, lol.

I gott'a catch up to the Dragonball Super manga before the inevitable anime comes out.

Oooh. That arc of the 90s when Spiderman meets the Beyonder was cool too. Like prelude to the Secret Wars. I haven't read THAT version of the Secret Wars, but that is also a great read I heard. It was a good watch tho. Hopefully they'll do it in the movies, but it won't be the same without Spidy.

[Doctor K]

Same could be said going the other way. Nobody on Avengers team would know Superman's durability or abilities/powers. Why would Strange or Witch even target Superman from the get-go or Avengers even feel the need to put Hulk, Thor and/or Captain Marvel on Strange/Witch guard duty to protect from Superman/Flash/Shazam/Wonder-woman? They don't know Superman is weak to magic either.

Justice League can figure out quickly who the magic users are based on their opening attacks so they can quickly gauge who to go after. Chances of Avengers figuring out Superman is weak to magic and to go after him first after just the opening act are slim to none. By the time they figure it out, half the Avengers would probably be dead.

Well if its just Superman like the OP and thread title, my entire post still totally applies. Superman gets stomped. His chances of winning < 10% if he doesn't go for Dr. Strange 1st while all the Avengers gang up on him.

As for the entire JL, honestly there are too many of them, aside from Superman they all get stomped while Superman can't finish off Thor really. Thor has been shown to be more durable than anything Superman can throw at him. Thor/Hulk should keep Superman busy while the others just get outnumbered and slowly destroyed.

I mean just think about it, any damage even done by Superman to Thor/Hulk or by the entire JL, Dr. Strange can quickly use his time stone and reverse it and in fact he can control time to such a degree that Superman's "speed" advantages will not even be there if Strange does what he wants

[Doctor K]

I wouldn't say that 99/100 Avengers would prevail. All of them are weaker than their comic book counterpart except for Captain America and maybe Capt Marvel? Supes is too, but he still have too many powers and near invincibility to make most of the Avengers useless against him. It's only like three-five members that could harm him. Thor, Capt Marvel, Hulk (if angry enough), and Strange? Maybe Vision? Scarlet Witch could slow him down, but apparently she'll be more closer to her comic book counter part in the new Strange movie.

With Thor with stormbreaker, I dunno if it could cut Supes. But I suppose so, given the dwarven magic, and it took a full beam of the infinity stones and cut Thanos.

However, I dunno if Thanos is more durable than Supes in the MCU. It doesn't seem like it since Spider and Capt could get Thanos to stagger a little bit with their attacks. Inconsistent writing maybe, but y'know. Supes wouldn't feel it.

With Capt Marvel, I dunno. Perhaps. There is a difference between travel speed and combat speed. She never really moved faster than anyone could react in combat. She never displayed almost like time stopping speed like Flash and Quicksilver. Superman did that. Like Ironman could move faster than sound in flight. But he can't fight as fast and he doesn't have that type of reaction time.

In her binary state, maybe she could deal with him? Need another movie to really say. She did take a headbutt from Thanos like it was nothing, and he kicked the Hulk's ass. Supes could be the same tho.

Not to say the Avengers can't beat Supes tho. If stormbreaker could cut Supes, all they need to do is get one good hit in. And Doctor Strange could trap him. But Supes biggest advantage is that he's too fast. Combine that with him probably stronger than anybody in the MCU, and durability that might be tougher than Thanos then it's hard to really beat him.

Like Wonder Woman reaction time is really good. She could react to bullets as if they were slow motion. And she could move at super sonic speed. Superman made Wonder Woman look super slow.

So, it just depends. As I said before, they really should not be able to hit Superman. He's too fast. And is strong enough to really one shot all the non heavy hitters. Only a few heroes could take a hit, but not for long. If they can't touch Quicksilver or the Flash, they won't be able to touch Superman. What good is the lighting from Thor if Supes just sidesteps away, run super fast up to your face, and poke your eyeballs out before you even realize what happened? Or give you a good few body shots and a upper cut? It would never happen that way cuz nobody writes like that. I don't wann'a give a number on it of the chances.

Lets say if ALL the avengers were there, in a middle of a city. I would say, it depends on who makes the first move. I would say probably the Hulk. He's the most wild and loose. Hulk would try to punch him, Superman may tank it for a bit before he punches the Hulk away or punches him to space. Unless it's professor Hulk then it might be Thor, IM or Capt Marvel.

If superman makes the first move, it just depends on who he targets. I would imagine it would his heat vision or his cold breath. But again, if Strange gets him in the mirror dimension, it's over. Time stone? It's over. If the stormbreaker could cut through Supes and if they find a way to catch him off guard or he believes he could tank it, it's over.

If this was comic version Marvel, then it would be Thor, Hulk, and Strange would be the biggest threats.

I mean you're acting like Superman has never been tagged. He's so fast no one can even touch him? That's just totally false lol. He has been tagged so many tims in all his movies. And just 1 tag and he could be done in this fight. We are talking about their cinematic versions. The "bloodlusted" Superman we saw fighting the JL was getting tagged by everyone. Even wonder woman got a headbutt in against him. Yes he could just move at super fast speeds the whole time except he has NEVER done that lol.

Literally all the Avengers despite how slow they are WILL tag Superman. That's just how it goes. Wanda will tag him, Vision will fire his stone at him, Ironman will fire his power at him, Thor will hit him with lightning, all together, it will look like that scene in Age of Ultron where all the Avengers are tagging Ultron together, and then Strange will finish Superman off. The end.

And even if Superman decided to move at full speed (like he never has), Strange can slow him down by slowing down time for him and literally make his "speed" useless.


Bottomline, if Superman or JL doesn't take out Strange 1st, they are literally screwed. And the probability of that is low without knowledge. Even without Strange Avengers will hold their own. With Strange they will win almost every time. Captain Marvel and Thor have shown higher durability to any power Superman has ever outputted.

[Kblaze8855]

Lol, read for me the last things that Watcher says in that panel?

http://media.comicbook.com/2018/04/thanos-best-marvel-villain-squirrel-girl-1100644.jpeg



Lol, what is MCU Thanos, without the gauntlet, going to be able to accomplish against DCCU Superman. We've seen both their abilities and power levels. Thanos is going to desperately need the gauntlet to win... it's his crutch... that's pretty evident.



Without doing a squirrel girl deep dive let me just say....

They wrote it that way trying to prevent a future retcon showing it was a clone and they still found a way around it. When it got out of hand they fixed a lot of her "feats" with simple explanations. Thanos later mentioned that his clones have become so advanced they can fool even "The most cosmic of beings" for just this reason and Spidermans claim she stalemated Galactus was explained by saying she did not fight him....she befriended him and he spared the earth as a favor to her and like...took her on adventures. I dont however think they ever explained away her defeat of Dr.Doom, Wolverine, Galactus' herald Terrax or Ego the living planet. A teenager with the power of a Squirrel defeated a planet.

She is literally a joke character not worth talking about anymore.....though people on comic book fantasy sites insist. She was once listed as a 7 out of 7 in all power categories on Marvels official site making her slightly more powerful than Odin and roughly on par with Galactus. Its a joke. I think we can both admit that.




Far as no gauntlet Thanos vs superman....who knows. Once Batman had him down and at his mercy with a stolen fist sized bit of rock I wouldnt put it past Thanos who I suspect wouldnt be on a planet with a yellow sun for the fight to begin with. Stark wasnt the only one "Cursed with knowledge" as he put it. And as long as your argument rests on shit he didnt do in the movies(the speed blitz you reference did not happen on film...ever)...and you go with:



He did it in the comics vs The Elite... though he had morals on.



You open a whole other world. Comic book Thanos even without the gauntlet is a lot of things that would be a problem for Superman. Magical, telepathatic, a lot smarter than Batman, Luthor, or Tony Stark plus generally barred from death by....Death itself who cursed him to live. Hes like superman in that he doesnt go all out(though for different reasons) so it would depend on whos stupitidy cost them first. Superman always holds back til he cant avoid it and Thanos holds back even when hes god to make fights interesting.

With knowledge of Supermans abilities he wouldnt be much of a threat to a prepared thanos who would likely just stay near red suns or drag a chunk of Krypton the size of Madagascar around with his ship.

On equal footing....equal knowledge of eachother? Id like to think Superman would know not to bullshit and Thanos would know to be ready. When a prepared Batman can kill superman I wouldnt imagine Thanos has trouble when he has an actual space ship and ability to fight in solar systems where Superman would be a normal human.

As always it would come down to the writer.

There are established reasons either one could win though. Superman being a moron forever losing to brilliant normal humans with no backup I wouldnt bet on him in film or comic form. Of course they would write it so he wins....thats how comic book movies go. But hed do it like he always does. The other side being made idiots by the plot even more than hes made an idiot by his nature.

[MaxFly]

Without doing a squirrel girl deep dive let me just say....

They wrote it that way trying to prevent a future retcon showing it was a clone and they still found a way around it. When it got out of hand they fixed a lot of her "feats" with simple explanations. Thanos later mentioned that his clones have become so advanced they can fool even "The most cosmic of beings" for just this reason and Spidermans claim she stalemated Galactus was explained by saying she did not fight him....she befriended him and he spared the earth as a favor to her and like...took her on adventures. I dont however think they ever explained away her defeat of Dr.Doom, Wolverine, Galactus' herald Terrax or Ego the living planet. A teenager with the power of a Squirrel defeated a planet.

She is literally a joke character not worth talking about anymore.....though people on comic book fantasy sites insist. She was once listed as a 7 out of 7 in all power categories on Marvels official site making her slightly more powerful than Odin and roughly on par with Galactus. Its a joke. I think we can both admit that.

When people talk about Superman vs Thanos, and cite Superman falling down stairs and crying, you're going to get panels of Thanos being beaten by Squirrel Girl and flying around in his Thanos copter (because he can't fly and has pretty average super powered speed). It's all jokes, but Thanos himself is often a joke character.


Far as no gauntlet Thanos vs superman....who knows. Once Batman had him down and at his mercy with a stolen fist sized bit of rock I wouldnt put it past Thanos who I suspect wouldnt be on a planet with a yellow sun for the fight to begin with. Stark wasnt the only one "Cursed with knowledge" as he put it. And as long as your argument rests on shit he didnt do in the movies(the speed blitz you reference did not happen on film...ever)...and you go with:

So it sounds like we're in agreement that MCU Thanos, without his trusty gauntlet, would get put down by DCCU Superman... even the extremely nice, congenial, smiley version of Superman, pretty quickly. And I agree... it would be in Thanos' best interest to never step foot on earth given that reality. Now, in the comics and other media, we've seen Superman travel to other planets without yellow suns and operate at full or near full power for extended periods of time. He has put down some very powerful opponents on other planets under different suns. I don't think they've addressed how long he can remain powered in the DCCU, but he fought Doomsday for a lengthy amount of time at night, after being dosed with kryptonite repeatedly. I'm willing to bet this version of Superman would be ok on another planet tossing Thanos around as well. It's not like he would need much time, right... lol

I'm not sure what the argument is in regard to Superman's speed. We've seen his speed; he's so fast that at the end of the JL movie, he and Flash were getting ready to have a race to see who was faster (flash is faster), and we know flash is extremely fast. Are we really saying that DCCU Superman is incapable of closing the distance between MCU Thanos and himself before Thanos acts? Again, Thanos should be able to win with the gauntlet, but it's not an automatic victory given Superman's abilities. That should be evident by what we've seen of their abilities in their respective universes.

[Kblaze8855]

Darkseid fell down stairs and cried not Superman but the point is the same. It’s a stupid joke panel that nobody not trolling should even bring up.

And Thanos can fly but I guess it depends on your separation of flight vs being able to levitate with telekinesis. He certainly doesn’t fly like Superman does.

Far as a no gauntlet fight once Batman has him at his mercy through preparing and doomsday killed him by straight stabbing it’s clear he can be killed by both smarts and brute strength and when Thanos is smarter than Batman(he’s invented shit along the lines of Reed Richards level) and stronger than the hulk it’s a tossup. The speed blitz shit is just pulling from comics with no basis in the films. Once we go there Thanos has a lot more to play with including magic and immortality.

Superman has never used his powers effectively. For someone who has all these arguments based on how fast he can move he certainly gets punched a lot And hit with every beam somebody shoots at him. He was essentially made too powerful and he fights like a moron because of it. If you were going to have him fight like he does in literally every incarnation including steppenWolf he can lose to a great many people and would definitely lose to Thanos with the gauntlet because every single time you’ve seen him fight somebody in a movie he failed to put them down quickly.

That punch then stand there smugly shit gets the universe ended vs thanos. And if we give him advanced knowledge and Thanos the same he’d be at an even greater disadvantage. Why would thanos not just stop time?

[Kblaze8855]

Though again to be fair while superman fights like a moron Thanos fights like a narcissist and let people hang around just like Superman does. Neither of them would win this fight. One would just lose by a little bit less. It

[Micku]

I mean you're acting like Superman has never been tagged. He's so fast no one can even touch him? That's just totally false lol. He has been tagged so many tims in all his movies. And just 1 tag and he could be done in this fight. We are talking about their cinematic versions. The "bloodlusted" Superman we saw fighting the JL was getting tagged by everyone. Even wonder woman got a headbutt in against him. Yes he could just move at super fast speeds the whole time except he has NEVER done that lol.

Literally all the Avengers despite how slow they are WILL tag Superman. That's just how it goes. Wanda will tag him, Vision will fire his stone at him, Ironman will fire his power at him, Thor will hit him with lightning, all together, it will look like that scene in Age of Ultron where all the Avengers are tagging Ultron together, and then Strange will finish Superman off. The end.

And even if Superman decided to move at full speed (like he never has), Strange can slow him down by slowing down time for him and literally make his "speed" useless.


Bottomline, if Superman or JL doesn't take out Strange 1st, they are literally screwed. And the probability of that is low without knowledge. Even without Strange Avengers will hold their own. With Strange they will win almost every time. Captain Marvel and Thor have shown higher durability to any power Superman has ever outputted.


Yeah. I feel like it's just due to....bad writing for lack of a better word. They never have use his power to the fullest. I suppose the in universe reason is that Supes don't have the mindset to do that. He doesn't fight smart. He ain't no Batman.

Like when Lex Luthor kidnap Supes mom in BvS. He really doesn't need Batman's help. He could just pretended to go fight Bats, but just fly super fast around world, listen to his mom's heartbeat, go in there save her, go back and wack Lex unconscious.

And even bloodlusted Supes in the Justice League didn't go all out against Bats. He could've killed him with almost anything. Could've killed the Flash. Could've killed all of them. The reason the writers don't do all that stuff is because of drama. Like I dunno if you read Tower of Babel before in DC where Flash got hit by a tree trunk from I think a throw from Wonder Woman. That shit is inconsistent due to Flash reaction time. The dude is suppsoed to react to a zeptosecond. 0.000000000000000000001 seconds. He shouldn't get hit by a tree trunk or potentially anything that isn't super fast...at all.

Supes and Flash just get hit for drama sake, but this the same across fictional stories.

But if we are talking about all out Supes? Full potential Supes? Even in the movies? Supes shouldn't get hit. Just for the simple fact that he could keep up with Flash, both reaction time and speed. Nobody in the MCU could react like that, except for Quicksilver.

The Avengers could beat Supes with Strange and Scarlet if she could hold him. Thor could slice him if it works. Like Strange has enough tricks to deal with Supes as long as he is distracted. There are different scenario where Supes beats them too tho. He has the capability to do so. And the fact that he could just solo them all, it's pretty crazy on itself. There's definitely more than one scenario where Supes win.

But imo, it shows a little bit how underpowered some of the heroes are in MCU compared to their comic book counterpart. But even then, only a few heroes really could deal damage to him.