Hakeem or LeBron all time?

[stalkerforlife]

A lot of kids here probably never saw Hakeem, but whatever.

Hakeem had the worst all time help for a back to back champion.

Next to Dirk, he may have the most impressive title of all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

You could absolutely argue Hakeem had the better peak, but all time it's LeBron, no matter how mad that makes you :lol

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Dream

[RRR3]

You could absolutely argue Hakeem had the better peak, but all time it's LeBron, no matter how mad that makes you :lol
So mad he’ll get arrested again.

[Kblaze8855]

This is one of those questions where you

[Real14]

95 finals mvp

[Mr Feeny]

Yeah agree with everything that's being said here. Lebron is the greater player. He'll go down as a mount Rushmore player because of his accomplishments in the NBA, his mvps, cumulative stats, and 3 titles as number 1 option.

Peak for peak, there isn't much in it. Hakeem MIGHT have just shaded it, but that isnt how players are ranked. Otherwise Shaq is comfortably a top 2 player ever.

[90sgoat]

Who is better, Hakeem or Karl Malone, same question, same answer. Hakeem is a top 5 goat center and Lebron is a top 5 sf.

[superduper]

Giannis > both

[Keno]

Giannis > both

Cringe :facepalm

[Shogon]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]This is one of those questions where you

[superduper]

Cringe :facepalm

Whoosh :oldlol:

[RRR3]

I don’t think LeBron could win any poll on this board lmao.

[sdot_thadon]

All time, it's Lebron but like others said peak is comparable to pretty much anyone. The knock is his prime was one of the briefest of the greats, while Lebron has maybe the longest sustained level of play we've seen.

That 95 run though, boy that stands up to any ring you can mention that was an amazing run, I do think that Clyde always gets underrated in that run because people tend to mash that run together with the 94 run in which we like to say was a terrible cast. Those of us that were on board for that run feel differently but it's a topic for another day I suppose.

[PickernRoller]

Easily Hakeem.

Did more with less. More skilled, more talented, didn't shortcut, higher peak. Played in the stronger era. No cakewalks.

There is really no contest. I think it's even disrespectful to compare the fraud to him but you know kids these days.

[Bankaii]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I don

[RRR3]

Look at the answers on this thread lol.
Dudes acting LeBron isn't a phenomenal basketball player and is only great because of his accomplishments.
I’m basing this opinion off of LeBron badly losing a poll against Dirk. Try that on other boards and the thread gets deleted.

Hakeem at least is widely considered top 10.

[Phoenix]

Hakeem's considered a top 10 player really on account of what he did in 94 and 95, and against who( beat all his main elite rivals on his way to championships), which speaks to how highly he peaked those years. Really you could include 93 in terms of peak, but 94 and 95 is when all the hardware was earned. Recency bias would probably favor Lebron, combined with how long he's been playing at a high level. But peak to peak? Hakeem's up there.

[Manny98]

Hakeem has the GOAT center peak and is probably 3rd overall behind LeBron & MJ

All time i have Hakeem 5th and LeBron 2nd

[PickernRoller]

A lot of passive aggressive crying...:cry:

By the time Bran's done, and the marketing machine fades... Bran won't be even in the Top 15 for many.

[Vino24]

Ish polls show how many people were kicked off and banned on other forums :lol

[MrFonzworth]

Whoosh :oldlol:
:roll:

[tpols]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I

[Round Mound]

Easily Hakeem.

Did more with less. More skilled, more talented, didn't shortcut, higher peak. Played in the stronger era. No cakewalks.

There is really no contest. I think it's even disrespectful to compare the fraud to him but you know kids these days.

This

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]This is one of those questions where you

[stalkerforlife]

You could absolutely argue Hakeem had the better peak, but all time it's LeBron, no matter how mad that makes you :lol

You seem to be upset.

I'm surely not.

You rely on the opinions of others.

I saw both play and Hakeem is better.

The reasons are endless.

[RRR3]

he got his ass kicked by dirk. :biggums:
So did Kobe. Dirk>Kobe obviously.

[NBAGOAT]

Debatable but I am even taking lebrons peak over Hakeem.

[stalkerforlife]

Defense - Hakeem by a mile.
Post play - Hakeem by a mile.
Maximizing surrounding talent - Hakeem by a mile.
Play making - Hakeem easily because of his GOAT post play. (No, assists don't happen a majority of the time with elite post play play making)
Mid-range - Hakeem easily.
Footwork - Hakeem by a mile.
Overall skill - Hakeem by a mile.
Etc.

Give Hakeem all the prime talent Bran left multiple teams for in possibly the weakest conference ever and Hakeem is possibly the GOAT.

[RRR3]

3PT shooting-Hakeem
Speed-Hakeem
Athleticism-Hakeem
Passing-Hakeem
Perimeter defense-Hakeem

-stalker, probably.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Poor Lebron fans. Watching everyone boot their guy off these lists :oldlol:

Ranking aside? As pure skills and impact go, not much separate the two.

[RRR3]

Poor Lebron fans. Watching everyone boot their guy off these lists :oldlol:

Ranking aside? As pure skills and impact go, not much separate the two.
This is a troll site where people refuse to admit LeBron is good.

Try doing this on a respectable board and see what happens

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1534042

And this is from 2015, mind you: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1390917

[stalkerforlife]

This is a troll site where people refuse to admit LeBron is good.

Try doing this on a respectable board and see what happens

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1534042

And this is from 2015, mind you: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1390917

Then stay on your "respectable" board that forces people to worship your favorite player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is a troll site where people refuse to admit LeBron is good.

Try doing this on a respectable board and see what happens

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1534042

And this is from 2015, mind you: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1390917

This website is better than that one. Unless you're into walking on egg shells and being a passive-aggressive pusscake.

Trolls aside, ISH ranks Lebron pretty fairly. And that's with his fanboys running amok here.

[GimmeThat]

James most likely got the better Simple Rating

[RRR3]

This website is better than that one. Unless you're into walking on egg shells and being a passive-aggressive pusscake.

Trolls aside, ISH ranks Lebron pretty fairly. And that's with his fanboys running amok here.
Dirk over LeBron=ranked fairly.


Sure, chief.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dirk over LeBron=ranked fairly.


Sure, chief.

Totally legit and not a troll job.

Without a doubt.

[Shogon]

LeBron has 4 MVPs, he has 3 rings and might add 1 or 2 to that number, he's the all time leading playoff scoring leader, he's going to likely be the all time regular season scoring leader, a plethora of other records and awards...

And for those reasons, he's going down as higher on the all time ranking than Hakeem.

Anyone who says he belongs below Hakeem or that he isn't top 10 isn't to be taken seriously.

He is easily one of the most accomplished basketball players of all time... far more than Hakeem.

Accomplishments and longevity matter... they matter a HELL of a lot when looking at all time legacies.

If we're just making all time rankings based on peak play, Shaq is probably jumping to #1 all time, which is obviously an utter nonsense ranking. All of you James haters... your boy Kobe is dropping out of the top 20. There are easily 20 players all time that had higher peaks than Kobe ever had, when you don't look at longevity and accomplishments.



You don't get to pick and choose when longevity and accomplishments matter. Of course they matter.

And for that reason, LeBron is easily ahead of Hakeem on the all time ranking.

[stalkerforlife]

LeBron has 4 MVPs, he has 3 rings and might add 1 or 2 to that number, he's the all time leading playoff scoring leader, he's going to likely be the all time regular season scoring leader, a plethora of other records and awards...

And for those reasons, he's going down as higher on the all time ranking than Hakeem.

Anyone who says he belongs below Hakeem or that he isn't top 10 isn't to be taken seriously.

He is easily one of the most accomplished basketball players of all time... far more than Hakeem.

Accomplishments and longevity matter... they matter a HELL of a lot when looking at all time legacies.

If we're just making all time rankings based on peak play, Shaq is probably jumping to #1 all time, which is obviously an utter nonsense ranking. All of you James haters... your boy Kobe is dropping out of the top 20. There are easily 20 players all time that had higher peaks than Kobe ever had, when you don't look at longevity and accomplishments.



You don't get to pick and choose when longevity and accomplishments matter. Of course they matter.

And for that reason, LeBron is easily ahead of Hakeem on the all time ranking.

Everything Bran did was manufactured.

"Please love my Bran."

No, thanks.

[Shogon]

Everything Bran did was manufactured.

"Please love my Bran."

No, thanks.

Dude I'm seriously going to beat the everloving shit out of you one day.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e18870b4196ae3448f954a380d9a0006/tenor.gif

[stalkerforlife]

Dude I'm seriously going to beat the everloving shit out of you one day.

No real basketball aficionado cares about anything Bran 'accomplished' in the east with his team hopping, super teaming, and NBA bolstered illegal play.

Please stop.

[Shogon]

No real basketball aficionado cares about anything Bran 'accomplished' in the east with his team hopping, super teaming, and NBA bolstered illegal play.

Please stop.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/e18870b4196ae3448f954a380d9a0006/tenor.gif

[stalkerforlife]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e18870b4196ae3448f954a380d9a0006/tenor.gif

:kobe:

[Shogon]

:kobe:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/203b13383fbbc621c2d2e7022ff7f8fc/tenor.gif

[aj1987]

Totally legit and not a troll job.

Without a doubt.
Man, this board has done a number on you.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Man, this board has done a number on you.

Sarcasm isn't one of your strong suits, bud.

That Dirk>LeBron "ranking" was obviously a troll.

[NBAGOAT]

This website is better than that one. Unless you're into walking on egg shells and being a passive-aggressive pusscake.

Trolls aside, ISH ranks Lebron pretty fairly. And that's with his fanboys running amok here.

Still far better than here lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Still far better than here lol

The whole vibe just reeks of people being...fake.

Couple of good posters during my limited time there. Still PC as hell though. I don't know whats worse, that or the Lebron bookclub there.

[aj1987]

Sarcasm isn't one of your strong suits, bud.

That Dirk>LeBron "ranking" was obviously a troll.
Talking about your recent posts in general, unless you were being sarcastic in all of them. :cheers:


The whole vibe just reeks of people being...fake.

Couple of good posters during my limited time there. Still PC as hell though. I don't know whats worse, that or the Lebron bookclub there.
As far as legit basketball discussion goes, this board has been worse than dog shit for over 4 years. There's like 1-2 good threads a month at best.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Talking about your recent posts in general, unless you were being sarcastic in all of them. :cheers:

Haven't seen you post at all, but that's nice you keep tabs on me.

So what's good?

Trying to learn how to objective? Stay on the sidelines some more and I'll have you back posting here. Reborn :pimp:

[NBAGOAT]

The whole vibe just reeks of people being...fake.

Couple of good posters during my limited time there. Still PC as hell though. I don't know what's more cringe-worthy, that or the Lebron bookclub there.

or maybe they're the most rational guys on the internet and we're an insane asylym. Maybe you're underselling bron. I think they stan bron a little much but it's pretty reasonable. I know you're an impact guy yet every impact metric paints bron as the clear best of the databall era and kg likely no2 who realgm is extremely high on which is not the common opinion elsewhere but shows consistency. I'll say it there's nothing wrong with saying the difference between peak hakeem and bron is small but the difference between peak bron and mj is comparable then and also small then by your gauge.

Reddit is pro bron but I'll admit, it's a bunch of 18 year olds who dont even know what prime kobe looks like so not to reliable. the flip side is the subscriber base is huge there's still plenty of smart people so not useless for talking bball there.

I agree there is some group think there and the player comparison board got worse but there's enough guys who pop out with some unpopular opinions but unlike here usually well argued. I mean elgee went from just a regular poster to one of the more popular guys you see people cite for basketball stuff on the internet. Ofc he's got some unpopular opinions so maybe you dont care about his analysis but it takes some level of competent analysis to get where he is.

[aj1987]

Haven't seen you post at all, but that's nice you keep tabs on me.

So what's good?

Trying to learn how to objective? Stay on the sidelines some more and I'll have you back posting here. Reborn :pimp:
Nah, I check in here like once in a week or once in 10 days hoping to find a decent thread, but it's the same old shit.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

or maybe they're the most rational guys on the internet and we're an insane asylym. Maybe you're underselling bron. I think they stan bron a little much but it's pretty reasonable. I know you're an impact guy yet every impact metric paints bron as the clear best of the databall era and kg likely no2 who realgm is extremely high on which is not the common opinion elsewhere but shows consistency. I'll say it there's nothing wrong with saying the difference between peak hakeem and bron is small but the difference between peak bron and mj is comparable then and also small then by your gauge.

Reddit is pro bron but I'll admit, it's a bunch of 18 year olds who dont even know what prime kobe looks like so not to reliable. the flip side is the subscriber base is huge there's still plenty of smart people so not useless for talking bball there.

I agree there is some group think there and the player comparison board got worse but there's enough guys who pop out with some unpopular opinions but unlike here usually well argued. I mean elgee went from just a regular poster to one of the more popular guys you see people cite for basketball stuff on the internet. Ofc he's got some unpopular opinions so maybe you dont care about his analysis but it takes some level of competent analysis to get where he is.

I have LeBron Top 3-5. And have no problem with anyone putting him in that 5-10 range.

His fans are cancer though. Most of them anyway. They tear down every ATG and have little to no respect for past greats. Or LeBron's contemporaries. Stats are everything for them, but the eye test is a "myth". Yeah...watching games is a foreign concept to these fukkin weebs.

Far as ISH goes? Its definitely taken a hit. Admittedly don't post as hard like I used to. But that's life. Still would take this place over RGM. Any day.

Totally agree about reddit tho.

[NBAGOAT]

I have LeBron Top 3-5. And have no problem with anyone putting him in that 5-10 range.

His fans are cancer though. Most of them anyway. They tear down every ATG and have little to no respect for past greats. Or LeBron's contemporaries. Stats are everything for them, but the eye test is a "myth". Yeah...watching games is a foreign concept to these fukkin weebs.

Far as ISH goes? Its definitely taken a hit. Admittedly don't post as hard like I once did. But that's life. Still would take this place over RGM. Totally agree about reddit tho.

oh here that's true I agree. I just try to brush off the repetitive alts and trolls. Tbf, I didnt watch as many regular season games as I used to either this season. But I think a pretty good test of how solid someone's analysis is diving into a live game thread. It's crazy some of the bad takes you see on any site including this one.

The eye test is pointless for them, a guy listening to the game on the radio would have more reasonable analysis

[sdot_thadon]

I have LeBron Top 3-5. And have no problem with anyone putting him in that 5-10 range.

His fans are cancer though. Most of them anyway. They tear down every ATG and have little to no respect for past greats. Or LeBron's contemporaries. Stats are everything for them, but the eye test is a "myth". Yeah...watching games is a foreign concept to these fukkin weebs.

Far as ISH goes? Its definitely taken a hit. Admittedly don't post as hard like I used to. But that's life. Still would take this place over RGM. Any day.

Totally agree about reddit tho.
You make a good point but I feel like this is all a result of "back in my day fans" attacking guys like Lebron and Kobe non stop once they began ascending. It fostered this culture of tearing down other players. I've watched it develop and current Mj stans(and i say stans because its not the same as a fan) look exactly like the old Wilt stans did when I 1st started using nba message boards back in the day.

And realgm isn't a bad place, it's just a different environment. That Pc board though are some of the most dedicated hardcore hoops fans I've ever seen, the amount of research they put in to reach their conclusions is respectable and even places that are supposedly professional level sports analysts don't put in that kind of work. Ish is a more fun place for sure but sometimes it's too fun and not enough reality.

[PickernRoller]

If it weren't for the alts, Hakeem would be having a landslide already.

[NBAGOAT]

You make a good point but I feel like this is all a result of "back in my day fans" attacking guys like Lebron and Kobe non stop once they began ascending. It fostered this culture of tearing down other players. I've watched it develop and current Mj stans(and i say stans because its not the same as a fan) look exactly like the old Wilt stans did when I 1st started using nba message boards back in the day.

And realgm isn't a bad place, it's just a different environment. That Pc board though are some of the most dedicated hardcore hoops fans I've ever seen, the amount of research they put in to reach their conclusions is respectable and even places that are supposedly professional level sports analysts don't put in that kind of work. Ish is a more fun place for sure but sometimes it's too fun and not enough reality.

i'll admit once in awhile I miss lazeruss. Those repetitive paragraphs of wilt's statistical feats would be a welcome distraction and it's kind of fun talking about/tearing down someone who isnt one of the big 3 names. Granted almost no one's seen wilt live but I doubt laz did either so it was an equal playing field

[sdot_thadon]

i'll admit once in awhile I miss lazeruss. Those repetitive paragraphs of wilt's statistical feats would be a welcome distraction and it's kind of fun talking about/tearing down someone who isnt one of the big 3 names. Granted almost no one's seen wilt live but I doubt laz did either so it was an equal playing field
Yeah he's one I'll remember when I see a Wilt topic. It's insane how the cycle is continuing. Wilt stans used to bash Mj, Mj stans would use stats, Wilt stans would counter with different stats. Mj stans would claim Wilt played against unathletic 5'9 white guys, Wilt stans would counter with Mj traveling and so forth.

Doesn't that shit sound vaguely familiar?:oldlol:

[aj1987]

If it weren't for the alts, Hakeem would be having a landslide already.

Not really surprising that Hakeem is winning, considering the fact that the combined IQ of the resident retards crew is 14.

3ball, 90sgoat, Cleverness, dazzer87, Da_Realist, DeRozan m8, Dr Hawk, Duncan21formvp, Hamtaro CP3KDKG, Leviathon1121, NASH = BEST, oh the horror, pegasus, PickernRoller, Reggie43, Rolando, Round Mound, senelcoolidge, solar.hands, stalkerforlife, superduper, The Iron Fist

[BigShotBob]

Hakeem is the better basketball player but he's not higher all time.

I misread the question so I voted Hakeem.

And yes you can be a better basketball player but be ranked lower all time than another player.

[Gileraracer]

Hakeem. More skill, less help. Less crying and less flopping


so easy choice

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron is slightly ahead I think, but Hakeem is a top10 player of all time too.

[Gunslinger]

Hakeem and not particularly close, either. LeBron never had a run similar to Hakeem's 1994 run which is almost as much of a carry-job as Duncan's 1999 and 2003 runs, but not quite GOAT. LeBron could theoretically be 1/9 if not for two of the biggest bailouts in NBA history.

[stalkerforlife]

Hakeem winning easily.

This is what happens when people are real and aren't forced to push an agenda.

[egokiller]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I don

[Hey Yo]

This website is better than that one. Unless you're into walking on egg shells and being a passive-aggressive pusscake.

Trolls aside, ISH ranks Lebron pretty fairly. And that's with his fanboys running amok here.
https://i.gifer.com/73aO.gif

https://i.gifer.com/5krP.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/6a041d135095a1741086185a842cc964/tenor.gif

[sdot_thadon]

Hakeem winning easily.

This is what happens when people are trolls and only push an agenda.

Fixed.

[Mr Feeny]

Fixed.

You can't whinge and cry just because the majority of the posters on aboard disagree with you. I voted for Lebron but to dismiss anyone who doesnt share your view as a "troll", is silly.

Hakeem peaked higher than Lebron, in a lot of people's eyes. So this isn't exactly shocking. Even if I don't necessarily agree.

[Mr Feeny]

Hakeem and not particularly close, either. LeBron never had a run similar to Hakeem's 1994 run which is almost as much of a carry-job as Duncan's 1999 and 2003 runs, but not quite GOAT. LeBron could theoretically be 1/9 if not for two of the biggest bailouts in NBA history.

Nobody had a run like Hakeem's 94. It still doesn't make him the GOAT. We are talking about all time rankings here. Body of work must play a role.

[sdot_thadon]

You can't whinge and cry just because the majority of the posters on aboard disagree with you. I voted for Lebron but to dismiss anyone who doesnt share your view as a "troll", is silly.

Hakeem peaked higher than Lebron, in a lot of people's eyes. So this isn't exactly shocking. Even if I don't necessarily agree.
Gtfoh, the thread is asking all time rank, not peak. I said previously if it's peak Dream's stands up to anyone else's. But the thead doesn't ask who's peak is better. Quit "whining and crying" about my "whining and crying":biggums:

[Mr Feeny]

Gtfoh, the thread is asking all time rank, not peak. I said previously if it's peak Dream's stands up to anyone else's. But the thead doesn't ask who's peak is better. Quit "whining and crying" about my "whining and crying":biggums:

I'm not the one calling people trolls because they disagree with me. As I said, stop crying.

[superduper]

Seriously, imagine for a second that Hakeem played with Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/Anthony Davis/Kyle Korver/Ray Allen/JR Smith (4th all time in 3pt made).

[Mr Feeny]

Seriously, imagine for a second that Hakeem played with Wade/Bosh/Kyrie/Love/Anthony Davis/Kyle Korver/Ray Allen/JR Smith (4th all time in 3pt made).

Or if he played with prime Shaq. 7 titles.

[RRR3]

This website is better than that one. Unless you're into walking on egg shells and being a passive-aggressive pusscake.

Trolls aside, ISH ranks Lebron pretty fairly. And that's with his fanboys running amok here.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471468


Fairly doeeee

[stalkerforlife]

You can't whinge and cry just because the majority of the posters on aboard disagree with you. I voted for Lebron but to dismiss anyone who doesnt share your view as a "troll", is silly.

Hakeem peaked higher than Lebron, in a lot of people's eyes. So this isn't exactly shocking. Even if I don't necessarily agree.

Feeny is the best LeBron fan on the board.

And he doesn't like Kobe, but he's fair about everything else.

An amazing man.

[stalkerforlife]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471468


Fairly doeeee

That's what you get for making a triggered thread in response to this one.

As if Hakeem has no case?

GTFOH.

You don't know basketball.

You have no clue how great Hakeem was.

[lakers_forever]

Easily Lebron. I don't see him missing All Nba first team's in his absolute prime like Olajuwon did. A lot of revisionist history with the Dream. He was not being seriously talked as the GOAT in his prime, like Lebron has been. Jordan is the GOAT, but Lebron obvioulsy has at least caused a debate. Heck, who was calling Hakeem the greatest center ever? Before his 30's, he was seen as dysphuntcional player, a first-round playoff loser and so one. Let's just stop with the nonnsense. He was no Jordan, no Lebron, no Kareem, no Magic, no Russell and no Bird.

Barkley was widely considered the second best player in the early 90's, Malone in the late 90's. Olajuwon is all time great, but he was "lucky" to have hit his best in those years without Jordan (94 and 95 with rusty MJ).

[sdot_thadon]

I'm not the one calling people trolls because they disagree with me. As I said, stop crying.
Nobody is crying or eveyone is crying this site is disagreements in every damn topic. It's a discussion forum tough guy. The fact you didn't actually respond to the point in my reply says everything i need to know. Does the thread title ask who has the higher peak?

[Hey Yo]

LeBron >>>> Akeem's / Hakeem's 8 first round exits.

[tontoz]

I always liked Hakeem but I think he has gotten overrated over the years, at least offensively. For much of his career he was a black hole that didn't play well with others. He also settled for jumpers too often.

Lebron gets to the foul line almost twice as often and shot 3% better on 2s.

[Turbo Slayer]

You are not a credible poster because you force another man to suck his banana. Hell nah. :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

Nobody is crying or eveyone is crying this site is disagreements in every damn topic. It's a discussion forum tough guy. The fact you didn't actually respond to the point in my reply says everything i need to know. Does the thread title ask who has the higher peak?

You are. And its funny watching you do so. Just accept that the majority of people on his forum have spoken and disagree with you. It doesn't make them trolls.

[sdot_thadon]

You are. And its funny watching you do so. Just accept that the majority of people on his forum have spoken and disagree with you. It doesn't make them trolls.
Keep on tap dancing around the actual question it suits you well.:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Keep on tap dancing around the actual question it suits you well.:oldlol:

Keep crying. That suits you well.

[stalkerforlife]

Nobody is crying or eveyone is crying this site is disagreements in every damn topic. It's a discussion forum tough guy. The fact you didn't actually respond to the point in my reply says everything i need to know. Does the thread title ask who has the higher peak?

Why are you crying?

Grow up.

Not everyone has the same opinions as you and that doesn't make them fake or a troll.

You're unstable.

Go to LeGM if you want a site that forces worship of your Bran.

[sdot_thadon]

Why are you crying?

Grow up.

Not everyone has the same opinions as you and that doesn't make them fake or a troll.

You're unstable.

Go to LeGM if you want a site that forces worship of your Bran.
Anytime anybody treats you with any dignity in their replies you should see that as a victory. That said your reputation proceeds you in that of being a troll. You are free to believe any retarded spark your brain comes up with and I'm free to take you to task on it. You don't want people questioning your posts, do better.

[stalkerforlife]

Anytime anybody treats you with any dignity in their replies you should see that as a victory. That said your reputation proceeds you in that of being a troll. You are free to believe any retarded spark your brain comes up with and I'm free to take you to task on it. You don't want people questioning your posts, do better.

There is no victory on a message board.

You're not cool.

Quit crying.

[stalkerforlife]

Hakeem with the win.

As expected.

[Young X]

Hakeem is only comparable at his peak. Lebron is definitely better in general. Hakeem could never win 4 MVP's in 5 seasons like Lebron did. It took Hakeem a long time to even get on that kind of level. Lebron was already the best player in the league when he was 24.

[stalkerforlife]

Hakeem is only comparable at his peak. Lebron is definitely better in general. Hakeem could never win 4 MVP's in 5 seasons like Lebron did. It took Hakeem a long time to even get on that kind of level. Lebron was already the best player in the league when he was 24.

Oh give me a damn break.

Put Hakeem in the weakest conference of all time to stuff stats with easy wins regularly and he wins multiple MVP awards.

That east was TURRIBLE and Bran still couldn't win without a super team. (Taking his best competition in the conference and putting it on ONE team)

[Young X]

Oh give me a damn break.

Put Hakeem in the weakest conference of all time to stuff stats with easy wins regularly and he wins multiple MVP awards.

That east was TURRIBLE and Bran still couldn't win without a super team. (Taking his best competition in the conference and putting it on ONE team)Hakeem played in the 80's west where there were 39 win teams in the conference finals...

[Mr Feeny]

Hakeem is only comparable at his peak. Lebron is definitely better in general. Hakeem could never win 4 MVP's in 5 seasons like Lebron did. It took Hakeem a long time to even get on that kind of level. Lebron was already the best player in the league when he was 24.


It depends on what you value. Apparently, the majority of the board don't care about cumulative totals and body of work as much as they do peak, and they think that Hakeem at his peak was simply a better player than Lebron. I don't see it the same way but I don't think that's crazy.

[RRR3]

It depends on what you value. Apparently, the majority of the board don't care about cumulative totals and body of work as much as they do peak, and they think that Hakeem at his peak was simply a better player than Lebron. I don't see it the same way but I don't think that's crazy.
The majority of peoole who voted for Hakeem aren’t to be taken seriously. That’s not to say I think Hakeem is a joke just look at some of the people who voted for Hakeem. Some of the worst trolls on this board.

LeBron lost a poll against Dirk here ffs. Ish is a joke.

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=RRR3]The majority of peoole who voted for Hakeem aren

[k0kakw0rld]

How many all time great teams Hakeem has faced compared to LeBron? :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

How many all time great teams Hakeem has faced compared to LeBron? :confusedshrug:
Magic/Kareem Lakers & '86 Celtics :confusedshrug:

[egokiller]

Put Hakeem on all those stacked teams lebron played on and change around a few positions for same talent level and Hakeem does better than 3/9. He wouldn

[k0kakw0rld]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Put Hakeem on all those stacked teams lebron played on and change around a few positions for same talent level and Hakeem does better than 3/9. He wouldn

[Nike D'Antoni]

I would say, Lebron. But Hakeem has worked with so many great players and passed knowledge. Lebron is one of those, as well as Kobe.


There is footage of LeBron James training with Hakeem Olajuwon to improve his game in the Post.

https://twitter.com/JamesEdrick3/status/1563915168953819146

[Airupthere]

[QUOTE=k0kakw0rld;13803991][QUOTE=egokiller]Put Hakeem on all those stacked teams lebron played on and change around a few positions for same talent level and Hakeem does better than 3/9. He wouldn[/QUOTE

[nineiron]

I don’t think LeBron could win any poll on this board lmao.

biggest flopper?

[HoopsNY]

Hakeem is the greatest player of all time. Give Hakeem a Pippen for 10 years and he's winning 6 chips, not MJ.

Give Hakeem peak Wade or peak Kobe and he's 3-peating EASILY.

Give Hakeem Wade/AD/Kyrie and he's winning every year.

FS Hakeem '85-'97: 28/11/3/2/3 on 49%

Game 7s '85-'97: 27/14/5/2/2 on 50%

Elimination Games '85-'97: 28/13/4/2/3 on 54%

I'm biased but Hakeem is the forgotten great one who is consistently disrespected on so many levels.

[HoopsNY]

Imagine Hakeem having Robinson, Kawhi, Parker, Ginobili, in the Pop system.

Imagine Hakeem plays with 7 HOF'ers like Russell did in Boston.

Imagine Hakeem with Magic, Worthy, Nixon, Wilkes, Cooper, etc.

Imagine Hakeem plays with Jerry West.

Give Hakeem Clyde and co. with Holzman as the coach.

Imagine Hakeem with Klay, KD, and Draymond, or Steph, Klay, and Dray.

Imagine Hakeem-Pippen-Grant-Armstrong-Paxson.

[HoopsNY]

Another thing about the game 7s. I believe Hakeem only had 4 of those during '85-'97, but people forget that the first round only had 5 games. During that time, the Rockets went to game 5 three times.

'85 Game 5 vs. UTA: 32/14/1/6 on 63%

'92 Game 5 vs. LAC: 31/21/3/3/7 on 52%

'95 Game 5 vs. UTA: 33/10/4/1 on 63%

Translation: GOAT

[ShawkFactory]

Who disrespects Hakeem?

You could certainly argue that he was a more dominant player than Duncan at his best. But Duncan was such a strange breed of player. I could (and have) written essays on why he was great and not once would I mention numbers.

[HoopsNY]

Houston's record vs. Chicago between 1991-1993: 5-1

Houston's record vs. Chicago between 1987-1993: 9-5

Translation: GOAT

MJ dodged a bullet. Everyone knows if Chicago faced Houston in 1995, then Hakeem would have thumped them.

[HoopsNY]

Who disrespects Hakeem?

You could certainly argue that he was a more dominant player than Duncan at his best. But Duncan was such a strange breed of player. I could (and have) written essays on why he was great and not once would I mention numbers.

When is he ever brought up? All we ever hear is the demise of Houston and how Hakeem got knocked out of the 1st round and missed the playoffs one year.

Yet no one brings up the failures of other greats and the luxuries that they have. Kareem missed the playoffs twice during his peak. And that doesn't even account for his need to have a GOAT level PG in order to win a title.

Steph is getting top 10 support and didn't win a FMVP until his 6th finals appearance in addition to teaming up with KD, in an era of no defense and no physicality where the perimeter is a free for all.

LeBron and Ilgauskas were both All-Stars in 2005 and Cleveland missed the playoffs. LeBron played with Westbrook and AD in 2021 and were the favorites to win the title in 2021 and couldn't even make the play-in, and he missed the playoffs in 2019. He had the debacle in 2011 and one of the worst finals performances in NBA history in 2007.

Kobe had a 1st round meltdown in game 7 against Phoenix. He played alongside Shaq-Malone-GP and in the finals got the gentleman sweep, then missed the playoffs the very next year (albeit his team sucked).

Shaq played with every elite guard you can think of during his time and then played with peak/prime Nash and Amare and then peak LeBron, and then ring chased with KG-Allen-Rondo-Pierce, 4 all-stars. The Lakers had 4 all-stars in '98 and got swept.

Wilt joined a super-team and won 1 title, and lost more than won.

Yet Hakeem struggles to make the top 10 and most people have him 12th or 13th. The reality is that he's far higher than that because his defensive impact would be MONUMENTAL alongside other great players who had the luxury of playing alongside other GOAT level players.

[ShawkFactory]

When is he ever brought up? All we ever hear is the demise of Houston and how Hakeem got knocked out of the 1st round and missed the playoffs one year.

Yet no one brings up the failures of other greats and the luxuries that they have. Kareem missed the playoffs twice during his peak. And that doesn't even account for his need to have a GOAT level PG in order to win a title.

Steph is getting top 10 support and didn't win a FMVP until his 6th finals appearance in addition to teaming up with KD, in an era of no defense and no physicality where the perimeter is a free for all.

LeBron and Ilgauskas were both All-Stars in 2005 and Cleveland missed the playoffs. LeBron played with Westbrook and AD in 2021 and were the favorites to win the title in 2021 and couldn't even make the play-in, and he missed the playoffs in 2019. He had the debacle in 2011 and one of the worst finals performances in NBA history in 2007.

Kobe had a 1st round meltdown in game 7 against Phoenix. He played alongside Shaq-Malone-GP and in the finals got the gentleman sweep, then missed the playoffs the very next year (albeit his team sucked).

Shaq played with every elite guard you can think of during his time and then played with peak/prime Nash and Amare and then peak LeBron, and then ring chased with KG-Allen-Rondo-Pierce, 4 all-stars. The Lakers had 4 all-stars in '98 and got swept.

Wilt joined a super-team and won 1 title, and lost more than won.

Yet Hakeem struggles to make the top 10 and most people have him 12th or 13th. The reality is that he's far higher than that because his defensive impact would be MONUMENTAL alongside other great players who had the luxury of playing alongside other GOAT level players.

To start I’ll just address the bolded: on a forum that talks almost exclusively about Jordan and Lebron...he’s brought up plenty. His greatness is certainly discussed more than the Houston late 90s flameout is. Pretty much everyone agrees that peak for peak he’s one of the best to ever do it.

It’s hard to rank based on what ifs. Generally speaking the guys at the top get luckier than others who are just as good but don’t get as lucky.

And while not as conventionally talented as some other winners, those 94-95 Rockets had some absolute dogs who knew their roles and executed them well. Jet, Maxwell, Horry, Thorpe, Cassell. Not the worse crew to go into battle with.

[HoopsNY]

To start I’ll just address the bolded: on a forum that talks almost exclusively about Jordan and Lebron...he’s brought up plenty. His greatness is certainly discussed more than the Houston late 90s flameout is. Pretty much everyone agrees that peak for peak he’s one of the best to ever do it.

It’s hard to rank based on what ifs. Generally speaking the guys at the top get luckier than others who are just as good but don’t get as lucky.

There's only 1 poster who consistently praises, defends, and proves Hakeem's greatness and GOAT status. And that's me.

[Full Court]

There's only 1 poster who consistently praises, defends, and proves Hakeem's greatness and GOAT status. And that's me.

I don't know, man. I haven't really seen anything negative about Hakeem on here. In fact, he probably gets less hate than anyone else in the top ten.

[Lebron23]

You could absolutely argue Hakeem had the better peak, but all time it's LeBron, no matter how mad that makes you :lol

Lebron already surpassed Hakeem after winning his 3rd championship in 2016.

[ShawkFactory]

There's only 1 poster who consistently praises, defends, and proves Hakeem's greatness and GOAT status. And that's me.

There’s a difference between disrespect and constant praise. Whenever Hakeem is brought up its pretty unanimous. He’s one of the few non-polarizing guys on ISH. Bird is probably the only other.

Wilt is back and forth. Same with Kareem and Magic because they played together.

Shaq and Kobe of course. Duncan because he played in the same era as Kobe. Russell because old.

[SouBeachTalents]

When is he ever brought up? All we ever hear is the demise of Houston and how Hakeem got knocked out of the 1st round and missed the playoffs one year.

Yet no one brings up the failures of other greats and the luxuries that they have. Kareem missed the playoffs twice during his peak. And that doesn't even account for his need to have a GOAT level PG in order to win a title.

Steph is getting top 10 support and didn't win a FMVP until his 6th finals appearance in addition to teaming up with KD, in an era of no defense and no physicality where the perimeter is a free for all.

LeBron and Ilgauskas were both All-Stars in 2005 and Cleveland missed the playoffs. LeBron played with Westbrook and AD in 2021 and were the favorites to win the title in 2021 and couldn't even make the play-in, and he missed the playoffs in 2019. He had the debacle in 2011 and one of the worst finals performances in NBA history in 2007.

Kobe had a 1st round meltdown in game 7 against Phoenix. He played alongside Shaq-Malone-GP and in the finals got the gentleman sweep, then missed the playoffs the very next year (albeit his team sucked).

Shaq played with every elite guard you can think of during his time and then played with peak/prime Nash and Amare and then peak LeBron, and then ring chased with KG-Allen-Rondo-Pierce, 4 all-stars. The Lakers had 4 all-stars in '98 and got swept.

Wilt joined a super-team and won 1 title, and lost more than won.

Yet Hakeem struggles to make the top 10 and most people have him 12th or 13th. The reality is that he's far higher than that because his defensive impact would be MONUMENTAL alongside other great players who had the luxury of playing alongside other GOAT level players.
Just in regards to his ranking, so much of that comes down to a players resume and body of work. And Hakeem's, fair or not is roughly 10th or so in that regard. Who would you rank Hakeem ahead of from the top 10 based on those criteria?

[WhiteKyrie]

Houston's record vs. Chicago between 1991-1993: 5-1

Houston's record vs. Chicago between 1987-1993: 9-5

Translation: GOAT

MJ dodged a bullet. Everyone knows if Chicago faced Houston in 1995, then Hakeem would have thumped them.
Based on two game samples in regular season? Lol see how that worked for many teams over time. It’s a different game in the playoffs. Stupid logic. Mike would’ve dog walked Hakeem just like he would’ve anyone else in history. Hakeem dodged Mike three straight years :confusedshrug: Mike wasn’t even in the league in 94 and majority of 95 to dodge Hakeem. Such asinine stupid troll “logic”

[Lakers Legend#32]

Hakeem only got his titles when Jordan went on vacation.

[ShawkFactory]

Hakeem only got his titles when Jordan went on vacation.

I don’t think the 95 Bulls were beating the Rockets. The didn’t have enough defense on the interior. That’s why the lost the Orlando.

[Lebron23]

I don't know, man. I haven't really seen anything negative about Hakeem on here. In fact, he probably gets less hate than anyone else in the top ten.

he got plenty of first round exits. Hakeem was lionized after he retired in 2002.

[kawhileonard2]

Hakeem was better. He won multiple titles for the franchise that drafted him while Lebron only won once he left.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Robert Horry Says Hakeem Olajuwon Is 20 Times Better Than Tim Duncan

[Full Court]

Hakeem was better. He won multiple titles for the franchise that drafted him while Lebron only won once he left.

He never had to get bailed out for his rings either.

[3ba11]

Once Hakeem became an expert jumpshooter, he commanded doubles and Houston became a great team.

The expert jumpshooting also fostered great chemistry, which allowed Hakeem to win organically... Hakeem learned how to win (organic) and didn't learn how to team-hop (talent-based winning

[beau_boy04]

Hakeem is his prime for sure. Theres a reason why MJ always picks him up for his pick up games.

[Phoenix]

When is he ever brought up? All we ever hear is the demise of Houston and how Hakeem got knocked out of the 1st round and missed the playoffs one year.

Yet no one brings up the failures of other greats and the luxuries that they have. Kareem missed the playoffs twice during his peak. And that doesn't even account for his need to have a GOAT level PG in order to win a title.

Steph is getting top 10 support and didn't win a FMVP until his 6th finals appearance in addition to teaming up with KD, in an era of no defense and no physicality where the perimeter is a free for all.

LeBron and Ilgauskas were both All-Stars in 2005 and Cleveland missed the playoffs. LeBron played with Westbrook and AD in 2021 and were the favorites to win the title in 2021 and couldn't even make the play-in, and he missed the playoffs in 2019. He had the debacle in 2011 and one of the worst finals performances in NBA history in 2007.

Kobe had a 1st round meltdown in game 7 against Phoenix. He played alongside Shaq-Malone-GP and in the finals got the gentleman sweep, then missed the playoffs the very next year (albeit his team sucked).

Shaq played with every elite guard you can think of during his time and then played with peak/prime Nash and Amare and then peak LeBron, and then ring chased with KG-Allen-Rondo-Pierce, 4 all-stars. The Lakers had 4 all-stars in '98 and got swept.

Wilt joined a super-team and won 1 title, and lost more than won.

Yet Hakeem struggles to make the top 10 and most people have him 12th or 13th. The reality is that he's far higher than that because his defensive impact would be MONUMENTAL alongside other great players who had the luxury of playing alongside other GOAT level players.

I've seen most people ( We should qualify that further. Forum boards? Publicized lists from ESPN/Bleacher/Fox etc etc?) have him in their top 10. I think the times he doesn't land top 10 is because many perceive him in the class of Shaq/Kobe/Duncan and how they're ranked changes by the week. You're right that he doesn't get the just praise he should but I suspect it's because he was the 'other' champion in a decade dominanted by the Bulls. You put Hakeem on those Bulls though and yes, easily winning a bunch of chips.

The second reason he doesn't get mentioned is because on forums like this, its populated by Jordan/Lebron/Kobe/Curry fans and anyone else whose name gets mentioned with any regularity is usually to service arguments for or against the aforementioned. You'll see 10 Scottie Pippen threads before you see one Hakeem thread, but that's because Scottie is a lightning rod in the Jordan/Lebron debate and not because of Scottie himself.

[Honor Boost]

Hakeem or Kawhi

Kawhi

[Phoenix]

Hakeem or Kawhi

Kawhi

No.

[HoopsNY]

Based on two game samples in regular season? Lol see how that worked for many teams over time. It’s a different game in the playoffs. Stupid logic. Mike would’ve dog walked Hakeem just like he would’ve anyone else in history. Hakeem dodged Mike three straight years :confusedshrug: Mike wasn’t even in the league in 94 and majority of 95 to dodge Hakeem. Such asinine stupid troll “logic”

I'm being biased, which I admitted already, so chill with the "asinine stupid troll" accusations brody.

If Houston played Chicago in 1994, then it's pretty certain that Chicago would have won. They would have had 4 All-Stars, including 2 All-NBA 1st team/MVP vote getters, and 3 All-Defensive players.

But in 1995? I'm fairly certain Houston wins that series.

[HoopsNY]

There’s a difference between disrespect and constant praise. Whenever Hakeem is brought up its pretty unanimous. He’s one of the few non-polarizing guys on ISH. Bird is probably the only other.

Wilt is back and forth. Same with Kareem and Magic because they played together.

Shaq and Kobe of course. Duncan because he played in the same era as Kobe. Russell because old.

Lol, look at the Bran stain that said this....


he got plenty of first round exits. Hakeem was lionized after he retired in 2002.

It's like these guys can't contextualize anything. Bran stains will say making the finals and losing is better than only making the 1st round.

So what does that make LeBron's...

2004 - Missed playoffs
2005 - Missed playoffs (both LeBron and Ilgauskas were All-Stars)
2019 - Missed playoffs
2021 - Missed playoffs (play-in despite being the favorites to win the title)

Suddenly context matters with Hakeem? But not for everyone else?

[HoopsNY]

Between 1985-1996, the Rockets were 33-51 without Hakeem.

Between 1992-1996, the Rockets were 7-27 without Hakeem.

In 1994, the Bulls were 55-27 without MJ.

In 1995, the Bulls were 34-31 without MJ.

I have no problem with anyone putting MJ above Hakeem, but there has to be something that is said about casts and playing under a coach like Phil Jackson, who is arguably the greatest coach of all time.

[HoopsNY]

Hakeem dominated an era that was all about the big man. Centers dominated the game in the 80s and 90s and Hakeem found himself up against the likes of Moses, Parish, Kareem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Zo, Shaq, Eaton, and Robinson.

All of those guys were defensive stalwarts. Compare them and the role of the center to guys like Miller, Richmond, Clyde, Moncrief, Drazen, Lewis, Iverson, Houston, Majerle, Dumars, or Allen, and their defensive impact.

It's not comparable.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol, look at the Bran stain that said this....



It's like these guys can't contextualize anything. Bran stains will say making the finals and losing is better than only making the 1st round.

So what does that make LeBron's...

2004 - Missed playoffs
2005 - Missed playoffs (both LeBron and Ilgauskas were All-Stars)
2019 - Missed playoffs
2021 - Missed playoffs (play-in despite being the favorites to win the title)

Suddenly context matters with Hakeem? But not for everyone else?

You’re talking about one guy. As a seemingly level-headed guy, reacting to the extreme is not what you need to be doing.

[HoopsNY]

You’re talking about one guy. As a seemingly level-headed guy, reacting to the extreme is not what you need to be doing.

I've seen plenty of level headed guys on here do the same. There's that one guy who had Chris Mullin in his pic (I forget his name) who had plenty of jabs at Hakeem using the same logic. 1987_Lakers also uses the same argument. This isn't something uncommon. It's widely used against Hakeem with no context provided.

[SouBeachTalents]

Between 1985-1996, the Rockets were 33-51 without Hakeem.

Between 1992-1996, the Rockets were 7-27 without Hakeem.

In 1994, the Bulls were 55-27 without MJ.

In 1995, the Bulls were 34-31 without MJ.

I have no problem with anyone putting MJ above Hakeem, but there has to be something that is said about casts and playing under a coach like Phil Jackson, who is arguably the greatest coach of all time.
How do you think Jordan does in Hakeem's place on those Houston teams, you think he matches those 2 chips and 3 Finals? Or wins more? It'd be interesting because the Rockets went against ATG centers in so many of their series.

[HoopsNY]

How do you think Jordan does in Hakeem's place on those Houston teams, you think he matches those 2 chips and 3 Finals? Or wins more? It'd be interesting because the Rockets went against ATG centers in so many of their series.

I think we both know the answer to that question. Jordan doesn't win in any of those finals including 1994. In 1993, MJ shot 40% in the series against the Knicks. A year later, he probably does similar. Remember, Ewing, Starks, and Oakley were at their defensive peaks then and all three got DPOY votes.

You would also have to remove MJ from the triangle offense. So does MJ even become a playmaker and move as much off the ball as he did in the early 90s?

I could be entirely wrong, but it's at least reasonable.

[coastalmarker99]

Had Ralph Sampson stayed healthy Hakeem most likely ends his career with 4 or 5 rings and two MVP's


As his premature demise opened the door for the Lakers to win two more titles, sabotaged the first decade of Hakeem’s brilliant career, and established Sampson as one of basketball’s ultimate “What if?” talents.

Worthy: The Rockets in 1986 matched up pretty well in every position. I just remember them being really good, really tough to defend. We’d run. They’d run back at us. It was the first time I ever experienced it being tough for the Lakers to get out of the West.

[kawhileonard2]

How do you think Jordan does in Hakeem's place on those Houston teams, you think he matches those 2 chips and 3 Finals? Or wins more? It'd be interesting because the Rockets went against ATG centers in so many of their series.

Hakeem lost with HCA twice and even to a team below .500. MJ never lost with HCA. Hakeem was also losing to other great teams like the Jazz and Sonics.

[Phoenix]

How do you think Jordan does in Hakeem's place on those Houston teams, you think he matches those 2 chips and 3 Finals? Or wins more? It'd be interesting because the Rockets went against ATG centers in so many of their series.

He's not winning those 94 and 95 chips, and I'm not even sure he gets to the finals ( maybe he gets there in 95 where he's either facing Hakeem's Bulls or Shaq's Magic). Team composition can't be understated in these kinds of hypotheticals. The Rockets had a pick your poison offense of going thru Hakeem in the post and you either 1) have him kill you inside or 2) get killed by the outside shooters Jet/Elie/Cassell/Horry/Maxwell. MJ was obviously great in the post ( 2nd 3peat especially) but he didn't command *that* kind of gravity to just surround him with shooters like the Rockets did with Hakeem.

On the flipside, the Bulls would probably have to surround Hakeem with an extra shooter or two but can you imagine a defensive frontline of Hakeem/Grant/Pippen or Hakeem/Rodman/Pippen? Jesus H Christ. Granted, the Rockets would have a hell of a defensive perimeter defense with the likes of MJ, Maxwell, Elie, Horry but I just don't think that team wins chips, though they could get out of the west depending on how they matched up with, say, the Spurs ( with Hakeem on the Bulls, that leaves the Admiral as the lone 'dominant' center in the west for this period) and how they matched up with the Suns, Sonics and Jazz( I see them as easier targets but it would all be extremely competitive series). Also, is Drexler still on the 95 Rockets to team with MJ? Lots to think about.....

I would assume the Bulls w/ Hakeem keep the triangle, which actually was conceived to feature a dominant big ( see Shaq between 99 and 04) moreso than a guard like MJ or Kobe. Of course MJ could be considered a 'dominant' post player in the 2nd 3peat based on the volume of offense he produced there ( and Kobe mimicked the role between 08-10 during that finals run).

[HoopsNY]

Had Ralph Sampson stayed healthy Hakeem most likely ends his career with 4 or 5 rings and two MVP's


As his premature demise opened the door for the Lakers to win two more titles, sabotaged the first decade of Hakeem’s brilliant career, and established Sampson as one of basketball’s ultimate “What if?” talents.

Worthy: The Rockets in 1986 matched up pretty well in every position. I just remember them being really good, really tough to defend. We’d run. They’d run back at us. It was the first time I ever experienced it being tough for the Lakers to get out of the West.

And that doesn't even consider the letting go of John Lucas and the banning of Lloyd and Wiggins.

Imagine the legacy he would have had with 4 titles in 5 trips? How would this discourse change? I think it changes dramatically.

[Red Pill Sports]

Well I'll say this; LeBron ain't winning a ring with Vernon Maxwell as his No. 2 option.

[HoopsNY]

Another thing that people don't consider in this debate. Houston was usually not a high seed. Even in 1995, they were the lowest seed to ever win a championship (6th). If Hakeem has the cast of Duncan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, or MJ, then he probably plays more of his playoff games in his prime/peak at home.

PS Hakeem @Home '85-'96: 29/12/3/2/4 on 54%

PS Hakeem @Road '85-'96: 27/12/3/2/3 on 53%%

It's minimal but still a difference.

[Nike D'Antoni]

1995 Hakeem vs 2011 Dirk is a great discussion for the greatest playoff run.

[SouBeachTalents]

1995 Hakeem vs 2011 Dirk is a great discussion for the greatest playoff run.
I know it's basketball blasphemy, but if we're talking individual performance, not narrative, Dirk's playoff run doesn't even being in the discussion for greatest playoff run, Hakeem's legitimately blows his away.

[Lebron23]

LeBron James 4x nba champion, 4x finals mvp, and 4x nba mvp. all time leading scorer in the playoffs and regular season

[Nowitness]

I know it's basketball blasphemy, but if we're talking individual performance, not narrative, Dirk's playoff run doesn't even being in the discussion for greatest playoff run, Hakeem's legitimately blows his away.

1000%. I think people elevate Dirk and other individual playoff runs more on competition/help as opposed to singular play.

But even if elevating based on narrative I still don't have Dirk as top 5, especially considering he was his own teams worst or second worst defender and playmaker. 94 Hakeem or 03 Duncan are the best.

[SouBeachTalents]

1000%. I think people elevate Dirk and other individual playoff runs more on competition/help as opposed to singular play.

But even if elevating based on narrative I still don't have Dirk as top 5, especially considering he was his own teams worst or second worst defender and playmaker. 94 Hakeem or 03 Duncan are the best.
And the worst part is, the competition aspect is completely overblown. LeBron had literally the worst series of his career, while Kobe had his worst outside of the '04 Finals. Then the same people who claim LeBron beat a bunch of kids in 2012 hype up Dirk beating the exact same team but a year younger :lol

I'm not saying it wasn't an impressive playoff run, but it's seriously become overhyped. Dirk wasn't even better than Wade in the Finals.

[Phoenix]

1995 Hakeem vs 2011 Dirk is a great discussion for the greatest playoff run.

Nah. Dirk was spectacular through the west playoffs, and very good in the finals. The context of Hakeem's 95 run is taking that team on the road throughout the playoffs and beating the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the league along the way( one of them being the MVP that he straight molly-whooped). For Dirk to do in 2011 what Hakeem did he would have needed to win on the road as a lower seed while taking out like...Duncan in the WCFs and Garnett in the finals ( and 2011 Duncan and Garnett weren't 95 Admiral/Shaq level, but legacy-wise those were the other prominent names at his positions for the 00's).

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah. Dirk was spectacular through the west playoffs, and very good in the finals. The context of Hakeem's 95 run is taking that team on the road throughout the playoffs and beating the 2nd and 3rd best centers in the league along the way( one of them being the MVP that he straight molly-whooped). For Dirk to do in 2011 what Hakeem did he would have needed to win on the road as a lower seed while taking out like...Duncan in the WCFs and Garnett in the finals ( and 2011 Duncan and Garnett weren't 95 Admiral/Shaq level, but legacy-wise those were the other prominent names at his positions for the 00's).
He really wasn't :lol He had games of

24 points on 52%TS & 5 turnovers
21 points on 49%TS
21 points on 38%TS

All in wins too, so his supporting cast people claim he carried did a lot of the heavy lifting during the Finals. He had two very good games, and was amazing in the clutch all series, but imo that was a Finals performance that was nothing to write home about for an ATG, and definitely wasn't very good.

[Phoenix]

He really wasn't :lol He had games of

24 points on 52%TS & 5 turnovers
21 points on 49%TS
21 points on 38%TS

All in wins too, so his supporting cast people claim he carried did a lot of the heavy lifting during the Finals. He had two very good games, and was amazing in the clutch all series, but imo that was a Finals performance that was nothing to write home about for an ATG, and definitely wasn't very good.

I probably could have used the term 'good'( especially in terms of clutch stats), I'm going off memory without deepdiving the numbers. Mostly, the Heat lost that title by how bad Lebron played vs anything Dirk did or didn't do. Or another way of putting it I guess, Dirk played closer to his baseline than Lebron did. If the latter played anything like he did in the eastern playoffs, it's still a 6 game series at best but with the opposite W/L result.

As you said earlier, Wade was the best player in the series in totality.

[Full Court]

He really wasn't :lol He had games of

24 points on 52%TS & 5 turnovers
21 points on 49%TS
21 points on 38%TS

All in wins too, so his supporting cast people claim he carried did a lot of the heavy lifting during the Finals. He had two very good games, and was amazing in the clutch all series, but imo that was a Finals performance that was nothing to write home about for an ATG, and definitely wasn't very good.

I would take amazing in the clutch over more ppg all day, every day. Think about it: if Lebron was amazing in the clutch, he wouldn't have a 22-33 finals record.

[SouBeachTalents]

I would take amazing in the clutch over more ppg all day, every day. Think about it: if Lebron was amazing in the clutch, he wouldn't have a 22-33 finals record.
Yes, we know that's all you think about :lol

[RRR3]

Yes, we know that's all you think about :lol
Amazing in the clutch Dirk has 25% of the rings LeBron has so I guess he enjoys losing

[Hey Yo]

I would take amazing in the clutch over more ppg all day, every day. Think about it: if Lebron was amazing in the clutch, he wouldn't have a 22-33 finals record.

A Wilt stan knocking others for allegedly
not being clutch in the Finals??



:whatever:

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron James 4x nba champion, 4x finals mvp, and 4x nba mvp. all time leading scorer in the playoffs and regular season

That is because you switch teams constantly. Won 1 title for the franchise that drafted him in 11 years and needed to get a guy suspended at that.

[Full Court]

A Wilt stan knocking others for allegedly
not being clutch in the Finals??



:whatever:

Wilt's poor finals performance is the only thing that keeps him from being the GOAT. I know these kinds of complex things are diffucult for Bronie fluffer brains to comprehend.

[Axe]

Yes, we know that's all you think about :lol
:oldlol:

[Nike D'Antoni]

Longevity definitely goes to Lebron. Hakeem at 38 was averaging 7 points per game.

[Round Mound]

Lebron longevity. Hakeem better player.

[j3lademaster]

I know it's basketball blasphemy, but if we're talking individual performance, not narrative, Dirk's playoff run doesn't even being in the discussion for greatest playoff run, Hakeem's legitimately blows his away.Hakeem was a DPOY level anchor who was capable of giving you 30/10. Basically Giannis impact on both ends, nothing blasphemous about this at all. I remember the Lakers were pretty hefty favorites and got swept, so the perception was that Dirk went through the gauntlet of gauntlets, when in reality that the 2011 Lakers and Heat squads both looked phenomenal on paper and were in reality very flawed.

[LeGoat4Life]

The dream easily

Lebron comfortably sit outside the top 10

[Lebron23]

Lebron James

Kobe vs. Hakeem is a much better comparison

[Full Court]

Uh oh...poll is tied. Bronie fluffers all scrambling to create more alts. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Uh oh...poll is tied.

Not it's not.

[Full Court]

Uh oh...poll is tied. Bronie fluffers all scrambling to create more alts. :lol


Not it's not.

Well that didn't take long. :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Well that didn't take long. :roll:

Meltdown

[Iverson3]

Wilt's poor finals performance is the only thing that keeps him from being the GOAT. I know these kinds of complex things are diffucult for Bronie fluffer brains to comprehend.

Lebron 52 votes

hakeem 49 votes

[Full Court]

Meltdown

Good one, Dudley. :lol


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F90%2F2020%2F09%2FUSATS I_14928656-e1619737839445.jpg%3Fw%3D1000%26h%3D600%26crop%3D1&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=6f344204d248187d60644c0b02874e91a258161150b758 0c5caed950a1bef574&ipo=images

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron longevity. Hakeem better player.

Not really. Rule changes helped longevity of players now.

[Lee]

Not really. Rule changes helped longevity of players now.

As of 2022, the only remaining active player from the 2004 NBA draft is Andre Iguodala( warming the bench).
As of the 2022-23 season, Lebron James is the remaining active player from the 2003 draft class; Udonis Haslem entered the NBA in 2003 as a free agent after going undrafted the previous year ( warming the bench)


As of 2022, Chris Paul is the only remaining active player from the 2005 draft class.



Where are Melo, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, and many others?

[kawhileonard2]

As of 2022, the only remaining active player from the 2004 NBA draft is Andre Iguodala( warming the bench).
As of the 2022-23 season, Lebron James is the remaining active player from the 2003 draft class; Udonis Haslem entered the NBA in 2003 as a free agent after going undrafted the previous year ( warming the bench)


As of 2022, Chris Paul is the only remaining active player from the 2005 draft class.



Where are Melo, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, and many others?

And Chris Paul is still in the league and balling.

[Jasper]

bron's past him in MVP as well as ring chasing.

[BigShotBob]

As of 2022, the only remaining active player from the 2004 NBA draft is Andre Iguodala( warming the bench).
As of the 2022-23 season, Lebron James is the remaining active player from the 2003 draft class; Udonis Haslem entered the NBA in 2003 as a free agent after going undrafted the previous year ( warming the bench)


As of 2022, Chris Paul is the only remaining active player from the 2005 draft class.



Where are Melo, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, and many others?

Injuries and Melo was blackballed. Health/luck with health plays a part too

[ShawkFactory]

Injuries and Melo was blackballed. Health/luck with health plays a part too

Why is that?

[2much_knowledge]

Well. Even as lebron reaches his ceiling of being the eternal #2, Hakeem did manage to do what lebron will never ever will and that is winning it all with no allstar teammate. Lebron usually needs 2 at a time lol

[BigShotBob]

Why is that?

Racism probably

[ShawkFactory]

Racism probably

He in particular was a victim of racism in a sport that is almost 80% black?

Wouldn't Lebron, and so many others, be affected as well if this is the case?

[kawhileonard2]

He in particular was a victim of racism in a sport that is almost 80% black?

Wouldn't Lebron, and so many others, be affected as well if this is the case?

And Lebron didn’t go to college

[Nike D'Antoni]

I don't understand how people vote Hakeem over Lebron, then vote Durant over Hakeem.