who here identifies as an independent?

[diamenz]

there's a decent amount of fairly politically informed people here, yet everybody seems to get caught up in the tribalism of whatever side they think represents their best interests. i tend to think that both parties are absolute shit when it comes to representing you and i... at least economically. who here separates themselves from both establishment democrats and republicans instead of just blindly voting one way come erection time? if you do identify as either a democrat or republican, explain why u support shitbags like pelosi, mconnell, etc.

or maybe u just consider yourself a liberal or conservative as opposed to a dem or rep. maybe you're fiscally conservative but socially liberal? speak up, hotshots.

[Draz]

I don't even know what I am at this point. I need to take the test

[Celtics 1825]

Doesn't independent just mean lack of affiliation with another political party? I'm pretty sure you can be a conservative or liberal but still be independent because you don't agree with the respective parties.

As for me though, I'm slightly left leaning but hate most of the Democrats bc they're corporate hacks and don't care about anyone's best interests apart from their donors.

[macmac]

Two party system is a scam everyone here is falling for. Huge joke.

So many ppl waste so much energy on politics when they have no say in it at all, concentrate on things you can do to directly impact your life positively. Politics is a waste of time ppl are willing to fight, insult, disown and kill for.

[Draz]

All I know is

Depending on what stage you are in life
What class you are in financially
If you're a business owner or employee
Where you live

Will all vary. Living in NYC, I don't want to know anyone on the streets with the way background checks are can own a gun. If I lived in FL where there's acres of land and no neighbors, I'll want to own a gun.

I don't make over 6 figures so taxing the rich makes more sense to me.

Which side you are on is purely dependent on where you are in life. It will change. There are a few handful of people that may support taxing the top 1% at a more aggressive rate (Bill Gates), but, once you get to the very top, you're against it.

I'm pro choice. People can't continue to have unwanted children. They'll end up in a system that fails them.

I don't think marijuana should be legal, I'm against it despite using it. I know too many people who use it everyday and have messed up their mental state of mind. They can't function. They're not normal. It'll be great for business. I've visited legal stores and it was cool. But, I'll feel safer knowing some teenager isn't under the influence driving under the impression they drive better high. I know people that says this.

I don't think a man should marry another man but if I want to get deep into it, if two human beings love each other then two human beings love each other. I'll be grossed out about it and agree there's something wrong with them in their heads, but, if they're educated and make decisions like this then why not.

[Overdrive]

Two party system is a scam everyone here is falling for. Huge joke.

So many ppl waste so much energy on politics when they have no say in it at all, concentrate on things you can do to directly impact your life positively. Politics is a waste of time ppl are willing to fight, insult, disown and kill for.

This. Any zealot, that doesn't directly benefit from a party is an utter retard. Stop wasting your time.

[Proctor]

Two party system is a scam everyone here is falling for. Huge joke.

So many ppl waste so much energy on politics when they have no say in it at all, concentrate on things you can do to directly impact your life positively. Politics is a waste of time ppl are willing to fight, insult, disown and kill for.
Bada-****ing-bingo

[egokiller]

If I

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Two party system is a scam everyone here is falling for. Huge joke.

So many ppl waste so much energy on politics when they have no say in it at all, concentrate on things you can do to directly impact your life positively. Politics is a waste of time ppl are willing to fight, insult, disown and kill for.

AGreed on so many levels.

[highwhey]

Patrick is an independent homosexual, he remains distanced from mainstream gays that associate with the left.

[ScalsFan21]

I'm a registered Democrat because I want to vote in the primaries, but I have no loyalty to the party itself. Left-wing independent is how I'd describe myself. The parties are both well to my right.

[ILLsmak]

I've been indy, but right now I don't have any democrats I would vote for.

I tend to believe in a more democratic ideal, but whatever democrats are doing now is bat shit.

If we ever got an I running for pres that could actually win, I'd vote for them. No, not Bernie. Bernie is a ****ing democrat. I would have voted for him in 16 tho, prol. NOT ANYMORE.

-Smak

[rufuspaul]

I'm a registered independent. I voted for Trump but I also voted for a Dem Governor, House rep and mayor.

I agree with Macmac that the 2 party system sucks but it's what we're stuck with atm.

I tend to be conservative fiscally but fairly liberal socially. What kills me is when Democrats try and act like they have a monopoly on morality. They're all con men and women on both sides.

[bladefd]

I am an independent but liberal. Unfortunately I can't vote in my state's primaries due to being independent =[

I don't support the 2 party system myself. There should be no parties, period. Everyone should run as independents and polling numbers should determine whether you get to debate or not. As the weeks advance, you get stricter requirements

[Bosnian Sajo]

I'm a registered independent. Although like Mac said, I'm well aware that politics is a bunch of bull so I don't really invest my time in it at all. My dad and brother are super into it (and Democrats), so I get most of my "political knowledge" from them..plus from the viral vids of Trump shooting his shit lol.



Draz, not knowing which one you fall into means you are an independent as well. At least for the time being.

[warriorfan]

Two party system is a scam everyone here is falling for. Huge joke.

So many ppl waste so much energy on politics when they have no say in it at all, concentrate on things you can do to directly impact your life positively. Politics is a waste of time ppl are willing to fight, insult, disown and kill for.

Agree 110%. I have found myself in the same spot. Well said.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I don't understand why, if we have so many independents out there...why do these independents keep voting blue or red? They think they are picking the lesser of 2 evils, but why not ALL of us vote for someone who is not associated with the rep/demo?

[bladefd]

I don't understand why, if we have so many independents out there...why do these independents keep voting blue or red? They think they are picking the lesser of 2 evils, but why not ALL of us vote for someone who is not associated with the rep/demo?

Because independents do not have a realistic shot on their own in a 2 party system. Voting for an independent in this time is a vote down the drain. There is a reason Bernie runs as a Democrat because he would have no shot as an independent.

Perhaps someone rich needs to come along with ideas that agree with huge chunk of America and be able to fully self-fund a campaign.. Like Oprah.. She doesn't want to run in a toxic political environment though

[pastis]

Because independents do not have a realistic shot on their own in a 2 party system. Voting for an independent in this time is a vote down the drain. There is a reason Bernie runs as a Democrat because he would have no shot as an independent.

Perhaps someone rich needs to come along with ideas that agree with huge chunk of America and be able to fully self-fund a campaign.. Like Oprah.. She doesn't want to run in a toxic political environment though

Other systems have their own problems:
The problem in states with a system of proportional representation (e.g. germany) is that you always need other parties to get over 50% of the seats in parliament. We actual have a coalition of social democrats and christian democrats. after long negiciations the content of the coalition agreement had some left propgramm points and some conservative programm points.
Right now neither side of voters is happy. Christian democrats want more military spending and lesser taxes while social democrats wants higher taxes for the wealthy, free daycare and more refugees

[Rocket]

Other systems have their own problems:
The problem in states with a system of proportional representation (e.g. germany) is that you always need other parties to get over 50% of the seats in parliament. We actual have a coalition of social democrats and christian democrats. after long negiciations the content of the coalition agreement had some left propgramm points and some conservative programm points.
Right now neither side of voters is happy. Christian democrats want more military spending and lesser taxes while social democrats wants higher taxes for the wealthy, free daycare and more refugees



The phrase "Christian democrat" is almost an oxymoron these days. I am not saying there are none out there but they are WAY off track. If they call themselves Christians yet support the party that actively supports murdering babies, actively pushes to normalize homosexuality, and tends to be very anti-Israel, then they need to take a long look at their beliefs.

[Kblaze8855]

There are many many millions of christian democrats no matter what you think about it. Old black women are as christian and democratic as it gets. Hell young ones too.

The beliefs of jesus as outlined in the bible dont line up with either party.

You have a group of christians who want to cut benefits to the poor and not use our wealth to help the less fortunate because its not in our best interest....even when thats exactly what Jesus said to do with wealth.

You have another supporting the rights to kill a child if a mother decides to and ignores the whole gayness being an abomination thing(granted....nobody seems to mind the other shit they said not to do in Leviticus but thats another topic).

If theres a jesus and you had to sit down in front of him I dont think hes gonna hear you out on sending poor kids back to guatemala or cutting food stamps for the poor because some abuse the system....nor would he likely accept most of the things we find socially acceptable in 2019.

Both sides really need to just let go of the bible in these things.

[Kblaze8855]

Anyway...



I tend to be conservative fiscally but fairly liberal socially.


Im something like that.


But this country is never really gonna decide to do the right thing with its money so I dont see much cause to vote with my fiscal goals in mind. Neither side will really cut spending to reasonable levels they just wanna spend too much on different things.

The way I see social issues? Thats been shown that with the right people elected we can make progress.

Nobody you could elect is gonna get spending where it should be. The right people in congress and the white house can fix some of the smaller human issues and find a way to get people living a better life. We are just about done with that though far as what you can do with the law.

You needed the left to get out of the dark ages but im not sure how much is left to do.

The right?

All I agree with are some of the fiscal things that arent gonna be taken care of anyway....so **** it.

Im not really worried about a couple percentage points on my taxes either way. With all the shit I have coming out of my check anyway I barely even know what my checks would be. After 401K, stock accounts, bills, small charity shit on auto pay, and so on....

I dont even look at it. Id be depressed seeing how much comes out in taxes. Only time I really pay attention to it is property taxes which I hate with a passion and when I see how much I have to pay out of my bonuses. The bonuses just piss you off because its a big lump sum you always take a good look at. I noticed once I could have bought my mom a decent used car just off the taxes taken from one good bonus. That gets to you.

Usual salary? I cant tell any difference no matter who is in office. MY 401K shot up with both Obama and Trump.

[tpols]

The phrase "Christian democrat" is almost an oxymoron these days. I am not saying there are none out there but they are WAY off track. If they call themselves Christians yet support the party that actively supports murdering babies, actively pushes to normalize homosexuality, and tends to be very anti-Israel, then they need to take a long look at their beliefs.


that's when you realize most (nearly all) christians are full of shit.


As kblaze said, if you're a democrat you support killing babies...

woah... jesus wouldnt like that. then again you got stoned back then for having a kid out of wedlock.

If you're a republican, you turn a total blind eye to the poor and sick. Look how they vehemently protest against healthcare and immigration.

Either way... you're full of shit. Just moralizing for your own personal ego.


In the end, it doesnt matter what you identify as, accept to look out for yourself and loved ones since the rest is all bullshit.

[ILLsmak]

that's when you realize most (nearly all) christians are full of shit.


As kblaze said, if you're a democrat you support killing babies...

woah... jesus wouldnt like that. then again you got stoned back then for having a kid out of wedlock.

If you're a republican, you turn a total blind eye to the poor and sick. Look how they vehemently protest against healthcare and immigration.

Either way... you're full of shit. Just moralizing for your own personal ego.


In the end, it doesnt matter what you identify as, accept to look out for yourself and loved ones since the rest is all bullshit.

well the Christian pov is right to life trumps (nopun) everything. I bet most Christian dems aren't too thrilled about abortion tho. I think Americans in general aren't, but somehow we've been brainwashed into thinking it's intolerant or anti-woman to be like hey killing babies... that's ****ed up.

Robin Williams made the joke that anyone who is anti-abortion should have to take care of a crack baby, but that's a pretty vile stance. Basically even if your parents are assholes you deserve the right to life. They can't right the wrong by killing you.

But nobody in Washington is living the Christian ideal, that's true, but in terms of killing babies vs not supporting the poor optimally, the former is worse because other people can come thru and help people who are alive. If we all did the right thing, everything would be OK, but we can't resurrect any babies.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

I think Americans in general aren't, but somehow we've been brainwashed into thinking it's intolerant or anti-woman to be like hey killing babies... that's ****ed up.

It as a simple matter of fact is telling a woman that she cant decide what to do with cells growing out of her tissue in her body. I can see how someone would feel ****ed up about it.

It just comes down to when its your cells vs another human and that isnt a question there is a real answer to. Its just a bunch of opinions people pass off as fact because for some reason people think their feelings make them an authority on philosophical questions.

The "church" seems to think its the moment the cells begin splitting....but they also take a dim view of *********ion. At some point we cross over into just.....mumbo jumbo.

[rufuspaul]

You do realize that "Christian Democrats " is a major political party in Germany and has nothing to do with Christians or Democrats in our country right?

[Norcaliblunt]

Banks control everything. Civilization doesn

[ILLsmak]

It as a simple matter of fact is telling a woman that she cant decide what to do with cells growing out of her tissue in her body. I can see how someone would feel ****ed up about it.

It just comes down to when its your cells vs another human and that isnt a question there is a real answer to. Its just a bunch of opinions people pass off as fact because for some reason people think their feelings make them an authority on philosophical questions.

The "church" seems to think its the moment the cells begin splitting....but they also take a dim view of *********ion. At some point we cross over into just.....mumbo jumbo.

I think abortion is ****ed up. I don't think I can control other people. However speaking purely of abortion supporting Christians. I mean for a catholic *********ion is a grave offense. Any sex other than unprotected to procreate is wrong. How can you rationalize that with abortion? It's dogma.

The whole cell when is it a baby thing doesn't make sense to me either. It's like are you going to have a baby yes/no, do you not wanna have a baby and thus get an abortion, then basically you killed a baby for your own convenience. It's a baby. A bb.

And people want you to think of pregnancy as an std or cancer or a parasite. But it's not. It's A baby. At least man up and admit what you're doing.

But that's how I feel. I understand why people would do it, but imo it's not a good look. It's not my body my choice. You can say my baby my choice. It might be attached to your body but it's something growing into a baby.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

As I said you don’t feel it’s their body. They most certainly do and it isn’t an issue of fact. It’s on opinion people feel so strongly about they have a hard time acknowledging that it is an opinion. A baby and 39 cells of no obvious shape are not the same thing. I don’t know when exactly it becomes a baby but there is a tipping point.

[Rocket]

that's when you realize most (nearly all) christians are full of shit.

lol, whatever.:facepalm This is truly a brilliant analysis.:rolleyes:



As kblaze said, if you're a democrat you support killing babies...

woah... jesus wouldnt like that. then again you got stoned back then for having a kid out of wedlock.

If you're a republican, you turn a total blind eye to the poor and sick. Look how they vehemently protest against healthcare and immigration.



The right protest against government run healthcare and ILLEGAL immigration not all immigration. I know the echo chamber you live in tries to paint with broad brushes to make you think we are against those things but seriously get your head out of your ass for a second and use your brain for once. We want everyone to have jobs that provide healthcare. Welfare and medicaid should be a hand up for the ones who fall on hard times not a handout and a way of life.



Either way... you're full of shit. Just moralizing for your own personal ego.

:rolleyes: Yet another a brilliant analysis. :facepalm


In the end, it doesnt matter what you identify as, accept to look out for yourself and loved ones since the rest is all bullshit.
No arguments here.

[ILLsmak]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]As I said you don

[Cleverness]

You have a group of christians who want to cut benefits to the poor and not use our wealth to help the less fortunate because its not in our best interest....even when thats exactly what Jesus said to do with wealth.


What do you think about this video? https://www.prageru.com/video/was-jesus-a-socialist/

The current "benefits to the poor" you are referring to are not actually benefits, but chains and dependency to big gov't, chains to poverty, and incentives to be poor.

Criticizing the cost and policies of the wasteful US welfare bureaucracy ≠ contradicting Jesus' beliefs.




If you're a republican, you turn a total blind eye to the poor and sick. Look how they vehemently protest against healthcare and immigration..

They are not protesting against healthcare and immigration.

They are protesting against a giant bureaucracy in Washington DC, heavily influenced by lobbyists, in charge of your healthcare.

They are protesting against illegal immigration, which is different from legal immigration. It's too bad the leftist corporate media does not understand the difference, misleading people to believe exactly what you wrote.

As for abortion, the overwhelming majority believes:
1st trimester abortion = should be LEGAL
2nd trimester abortion = should be ILLEGAL
3rd trimester abortion = should be ILLEGAL
(exception: mother's life endangered)
wedge issue seems like it'll go on forever