Why did Shaq get swept by this guy?

[90sgoat]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/21/68/482168aee720e600f58d15b719bf25aa.jpg

[Overdrive]

Or this guy

https://b.fssta.com/uploads/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/NBA/images/2014/12/22/122214-NBA-Carl-Herrera-pi-AS.vresize.480.270.high.4.jpg

[bigkingsfan]

His team lost four consecutive games.

[90sgoat]

Why did Shaq get swept by 3 white mailmen?

Does that mean Kobe carried the 3-peat Lakers?

[StrongLurk]

Why did Shaq get swept by 3 white mailmen?

Does that mean Kobe carried the 3-peat Lakers?

Kobe is like Pippen and Shaq is like MJ.

Once KoPippen because serviceable and even an allstar, peak shaq three-peated.

[90sgoat]

Kobe is like Pippen and Shaq is like MJ.

Once KoPippen because serviceable and even an allstar, peak shaq three-peated.

So you need a Pippen to not get swept by Biff Tannen?

[superduper]

So you need a Pippen to not get swept by Biff Tannen?

Shaq's biggest rival = Biff Tannen
MJ's biggest rival = Larry Bird

Wow Shaq really was a loser before Kobe :oldlol:

[90sgoat]

Shaq's biggest rival = Biff Tannen
MJ's biggest rival = Larry Bird

Wow Shaq really was a loser before Kobe :oldlol:

I just cannot believe it.

Shaq got swept by Biff Tannen, even if Biff brought his math teacher (Hornacek) and his pastor (Stockton).

Just embarassing for Shaq in all kinds of ways.

[superduper]

How did the MDE, during his absolutely summit peak, get outplayed by a 21 year old shooting guard on his same team during the playoffs of 01?

[90sgoat]

How did the MDE, during his absolutely summit peak, get outplayed by a 21 year old shooting guard on his same team during the playoffs of 01?

I dont know.

Shaq couldn't win until Kobe and even when Shaq won, it was when there wasn't single serviceable center left, even when just the shell of D-Rob was still kicking they won it all and Shaq couldn't.

The truth is that Shaq couldn't get it done when facing someone his own size, like Rik Smits or Ostertag or Yao Ming.

This really elevates Kobe in the rankings.

[superduper]

Shaq needed someone to:

-Be the playmaker
-Be the main defender
-Be the vocal leader
-Be the on court leader
-Hit all of the clutch and high pressure shots

And that is okay.

[guy]

Big knock on his career was how much he got swept: 94, 95, 96, 98, 99, 07

[90sgoat]

Big knock on his career was how much he got swept: 94, 95, 96, 98, 99, 07

Do you know what was behind that?

An inability to adapt.

Shaq basically had no counter if a big body could push him 3 feet out on the block.

[90sgoat]

Shaq needed someone to:

-Be the playmaker
-Be the main defender
-Be the vocal leader
-Be the on court leader
-Hit all of the clutch and high pressure shots

And that is okay.

Yep, like Karl Malone needed Stockton and Lebron needed Wade.

[FireDavidKahn]

Shaq's biggest rival = Biff Tannen
MJ's biggest rival = Larry Bird

Wow Shaq really was a loser before Kobe :oldlol:
MJ's biggest rival was actually this guy.
https://www.blackenterprise.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/08/JOHN-W-ROGERS1.jpg

[tpols]

Big knock on his career was how much he got swept: 94, 95, 96, 98, 99, 07


he was exploitable with the FTs. big hole.

then you add poor intangibles to the mix and you get a lot of L's.

People were just enamored by his GOAT size & athleticism has there ever been another shaq?

ill admit if i saw shaq in person id probably see him as the GOAT.

[Hey Yo]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/21/68/482168aee720e600f58d15b719bf25aa.jpg
So when Shaq gets swept by Osterstiff, it's a joke that he let that happen.

But when MJ and the Bulls beat the same Osterstiff in B2B Finals, it's a huge accomplishment for MJ?!?!?

:confusedshrug:

[Prometheus]

OP gargles semen.

[Manny98]

Wait this is the so called "elite rim protection" that MJ had to face :roll:

This fatso wouldn't even make a G league roster in today's league

[Manny98]

Shaq's biggest rival = Biff Tannen
MJ's biggest rival = Larry Bird

Wow Shaq really was a loser before Kobe :oldlol:
MJ never even beat Bird so it doesn't count as a rivalry :no:

[StrongLurk]

SuperDuper and 90's GOAT are the same person :lol

Pathetic.

[StrongLurk]

So you need a Pippen to not get swept by Biff Tannen?

Exactly. Once Kobe stopped airballing everything in the playoffs, Shaq didn't have to carry dogshit teammates and went on to have the most dominant 3-peat finals performance in history besides maybe MJ.

[superduper]

SuperDuper and 90's GOAT are the same person :lol

Pathetic.

Mods? Can you confirm?

[StrongLurk]

Mods? Can you confirm?

Don't be scared and run for protection.

[superduper]

MJ never even beat Bird so it doesn't count as a rivalry :no:

Why did Larry Bird, arguable top 3-5 player of all time during his time and one of the most competitive players ever, call a 2nd year player God?

[superduper]

Don't be scared and run for protection.

Run for protection? I'm calling them out to confirm if I have any alts.

How dense are you :oldlol:

[3ball]

Shaq needed someone to:

-Be the playmaker
-Be the main defender
-Be the vocal leader
-Be the on court leader
-Hit all of the clutch and high pressure shots

And that is okay.
^^ Spot on.. That's why I generally rank goat perimeter players over goat bigs on the all-time list

goat bigs need someone to do everything for them.. goat perimeter players don't need a goat big or even a GOOD big

[90sgoat]

Mods? Can you confirm?

:lol

[3ball]

he was exploitable with the FTs. big hole.

then you add poor intangibles to the mix and you get a lot of L's.

People were just enamored by his GOAT size & athleticism has there ever been another shaq?

ill admit if i saw shaq in person id probably see him as the GOAT.
Your talking about Lebron or Shaq?

Shaq's 5 sweeps are actually exceeded by Lebron's sweeps, record defeats, or all-time chokes in 07, 11, 14, 18, and another blowout in 17' - that's 5 sweep-equivalents vs. Shaq's 5, due to the factors you mentioned in your post

[tpols]

Your talking about Lebron or Shaq?

Shaq's 5 sweeps are actually exceeded by Lebron's sweeps, record defeats, or all-time chokes in 07, 11, 14, 18, and another blowout in 17' - that's 5 sweep-equivalents vs. Shaq's 5, due to the factors you mentioned in your post


Theyre two peas in the same pod. Both team hopped big time too.

But at least shaq didnt flop or pretend to look weak.

[SouBeachTalents]

Are none of you idiots going to point out Kobe got swept by the very same dude :lol

And this was supposed to be Jordan's toughest competition :oldlol:

[Stringer Bell]

Shaq

[tpols]

[QUOTE=Stringer Bell]Shaq

[3ball]

Shaq’s teams would always get swept when they were eliminated.

The only exception was to the loss to the Jazz when rookie Kobe shot those air balls. That one went 5 instead of 4.
Lebron is no different - all 6 of his Finals losses occurred with him getting blown out in the last 3 games.. The opponent figured out the cp3/lebron ball-dominance-ball, and it was a joke after that.. This occurred with Lebron's teams despite great, veteran casts

Less well-rounded, less nuanced players simply get figured out, and then it's blowout-city after that

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron is no different - all 6 of his Finals losses occurred with him getting blown out in the last 3 games.. The opponent figured out the cp3/lebron ball-dominance-ball, and it was a joke after that.. This occurred with Lebron's teams despite great, veteran casts

Less well-rounded, less nuanced players simply get figured out, and then it's blowout-city after that
Sounds like Jordan before Pippen & Phil

[3ball]

Sounds like Jordan before Pippen & Phil


Actually, that's nearly every player their first few years, where they typically miss the playoffs like Durant, Lebron, Curry, Giannis, Kyrie, etc.

MJ actually did better than those guys at the same stage by making the playoffs and breaking playoff records against goat teams in the 8 vs 1 matchup

So it's how a player does AFTER their first few learning years.. some players learn to play a better way and mostly win, aka MJ, Curry... and some guys play the same way, so they remain exploitable, need shit tons of help, and lose a lot - aka Shaq, Lebron

[RRR3]

Both Shaq and LeBron peaked higher than MJ

[SouBeachTalents]

Actually, that's nearly every player their first few years, where they typically miss the playoffs like Durant, Lebron, Curry, Giannis, Kyrie, etc.

MJ actually did better than those guys at the same stage by making the playoffs and breaking playoff records against goat teams in the 8 vs 1 matchup

So it's how a player does AFTER their first few learning years.. some players learn to play a better way and mostly win, aka MJ, Curry... and some guys play the same way, so they remain exploitable, need shit tons of help, and lose a lot - aka Shaq, Lebron
So Curry wins more, while Shaq & LeBron lose a lot, even though at age 31 they all had the same number of titles :oldlol:

And the "needing a shit ton of help" argument goes out the window when Curry won the majority of his rings with Durant/Klay/Dray

[Mr Feeny]

Both Shaq and LeBron peaked higher than MJ

Both MJ and Shaq peaked higher than Lebron. This isnt even debatable.

[RRR3]

Both MJ and Shaq peaked higher than Lebron. This isnt even debatable.
Let me troll 3ball in peace. Sheesh.

[Mr Feeny]

Let me troll 3ball in peace. Sheesh.

Ah its 3ball. Carry on. By all means :lol

[tpols]

Sounds like Jordan before Pippen & Phil


you're reaching hard if you think jordan was ever "figured out".

[RRR3]

Ah its 3ball. Carry on. By all means :lol
:lol :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

you're reaching hard if you think jordan was ever "figured out".
So Jordan wasn't getting swept/losing the last 3 games of his series?

[tpols]

So Jordan wasn't getting swept/losing the last 3 games of his series?


just stop...

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq needed someone to:

-Be the playmaker
-Be the main defender
-Be the vocal leader
-Be the on court leader
-Hit all of the clutch and high pressure shots

And that is okay.

The last 3 never happened, and the first 2 MJ had someone for as well.

[Hey Yo]

Wait this is the so called "elite rim protection" that MJ had to face :roll:

This fatso wouldn't even make a G league roster in today's league
Plus these 2 dudes is what comprised of Utah's BIG 3 White stiffs

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/I-0AAOSwEHhcHowU/s-l300.jpg


https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Basketball/2447/2447-687798Fr.jpg

[3ball]

The last 3 never happened, and the first 2 MJ had someone for as well.
Kyrie and Wade were equal or better assist/playmaking guys than Pippen

So Lebron had just as much playmaking help as MJ... and much more scoring help at the #2 spot too, with FAR more scoring help at the #3 spot.

btw, lebron had Hughes/Wade/Battier/Varejao - that's 4 all-nba defenders (more than the 3 that MJ played with), and FAR better rim protection (5 guys at 1 bpg or more, compared to 0 for MJ)

[Hey Yo]

Kyrie and Wade were equal or better assist/playmaking guys than Pippen

So Lebron had just as much playmaking help as MJ... and much more scoring help at the #2 spot too, with FAR more scoring help at the #3 spot.

btw, lebron had Hughes/Wade/Battier/Varejao - that's 4 all-nba defenders (more than the 3 that MJ played with), and FAR better rim protection (5 guys at 1 bpg or more, compared to 0 for MJ)
Those 3 never got All-Defensive nods while being teammates with James.

[3ball]

Those 3 never got All-Defensive nods while being teammates with James.


Still great defenders, plus Lebron had 5 good rim protectors to MJ's 0

So Lebron played with more good defenders than MJ.... 4 all-nba defenders + 5 shot-blocking bigs > 3 all-nba defenders and 0 shot-blocking bigs

Blocks... Mosgov (1.5), Zydrunas (2.3), Shaq (1.5), Chandler and McGee > Cartwright (0.5 blk) and Longley (0.3)

Ultimately, Lebron had greater offensive AND defensive help.. yet only 3 rings because he plays an inferior way.. A ton of help and a ton of stat totals, yet only 3 rings - that means he's doing something wrong compared to MJ, who got more rings with less help and less stat totals... And the thing Lebron does wrong compared to mj is less stats PER GAME and too much ball-dominance/less ball-movement

[Hey Yo]

Still great defenders, plus Lebron had 5 good rim protectors to MJ's 0

So Lebron played with more good defenders than MJ.... 4 all-nba defenders + 5 shot-blocking bigs > 3 all-nba defenders and 0 shot-blocking bigs

Blocks... Mosgov (1.5), Zydrunas (2.3), Shaq (1.5), Chandler and McGee > Cartwright (0.5 blk) and Longley (0.3)

Ultimately, Lebron had greater offensive AND defensive help.. yet only 3 rings because he plays an inferior way.. A ton of help and a ton of stat totals, yet only 3 rings - that means he's doing something wrong compared to MJ, who got more rings with less help and less stat totals... And the thing Lebron does wrong compared to mj is less stats PER GAME and too much ball-dominance/less ball-movement
What not say:

Okay, I lied again.... you got me

They were great defenders at one point, just not when they were teammates with LeBron. Simple as that.

[tpols]

What not say:

Okay, I lied again.... you got me

They were great defenders at one point, just not when they were teammates with LeBron. Simple as that.


you're a total liar.

battier, wade and varejeo were all great defenders when they were playing with lebron.

[Hey Yo]

you're a total liar.

battier, wade and varejeo were all great defenders when they were playing with lebron.
I dont think you know what great means.

[Prometheus]

Kyrie and Wade were equal or better assist/playmaking guys than Pippen

So Lebron had just as much playmaking help as MJ... and much more scoring help at the #2 spot too, with FAR more scoring help at the #3 spot.

btw, lebron had Hughes/Wade/Battier/Varejao - that's 4 all-nba defenders (more than the 3 that MJ played with), and FAR better rim protection (5 guys at 1 bpg or more, compared to 0 for MJ)

:biggums:

[3ball]

:biggums:
career apg:

kyrie - 5.7
pippen - 5.3


kyrie is recognized as one of the best PG's in the game

pippen was never a pg, let alone one of the best

otoh, mj was literally considered better than Magic and Isiah after just a few games at PG, and averaged 30/9/11 overall at PG .. this included 10 triple doubles in 11 games.. Pippen isn't capable of that and was never a guy to break anyone down off the dribble

[SouBeachTalents]

career apg:

kyrie - 5.7
pippen - 5.3


kyrie is recognized as one of the best PG's in the game

pippen was never a pg, let alone one of the best

otoh, mj was literally considered better than Magic and Isiah after just a few games at PG, and averaged 30/9/11 overall at PG .. this included 10 triple doubles in 11 games.. Pippen isn't capable of that and was never a guy to break anyone down off the dribble
career apg:

LeBron - 7.23
Jordan - 5.25

[3ball]

career apg:

LeBron - 7.23
Jordan - 5.25
a couple assists at the expense of ball movement, player development, a system, and the possibility of sustainable, organic championships.. :facepalm

Oh, and at the expense of 5 ppg in the playoffs or mj's regular season bulls career.

Finally - when MJ played PG, he averaged more apg (11) than Lebron ever did.... and even when MJ didn't play PG (91 Finals), he still averaged more apg than Lebron ever did..

ultimately, only mj was goat-level on-ball and off-ball, and this superior skillset fit with more player types for better teams.

[AirFederer]

Lebron #11

Agreed

[StrongLurk]

Why is OP scared of Shaq?