Challenge for ISH's social conservatives

[ScalsFan21]

In the wake of about half of Republicans now supporting gay marriage and most social issues trending leftward each passing year, can you provide a secular reason to outlaw same-sex marriage?

None of this Ben Shapiro side-stepping "get gov't out of marriage altogether" crap. That's fine if you believe that, but I'm referring specifically to people who would actively prefer to ban same-sex marriage, even granting that we're still operating in a society which allows for "traditional" marriage.

Really curious.

[Cleverness]

Not sure who the social conservatives are on here (if there are any), but in 2008, he said: "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage."

I've always believed that anyone should be able to marry whomever they want, as long as it is consensual

What I think is wrong is the role of big government in marriage

For example, prior to the latest tax reform, if two CA DDS' wanted to get married they could end up paying an additional ~$20,000/yr in taxes. Over 30 years of marriage that could be a very costly marriage from taxes. What an absurd federal tax system.

[Hawker]

No disrespect - but OP is clearly another example of the strawman argument that liberals have when arguing against republicans - they think they are still like Bush era neocon republicans when it just isn't the case anymore.

[ScalsFan21]

No disrespect - but OP is clearly another example of the strawman argument that liberals have when arguing against republicans - they think they are still like Bush era neocon republicans when it just isn't the case anymore.

What? Nah I even mentioned that in the first post. You're right, Republicans have largely woken up on this stuff.

Rational arguments (even though obv I would partially/fully disagree with them) can be made on guns, abortion, immigration, etc. But the drug war and, in particular, banning same-sex marriage are two of the most indefensible positions in the game.

I just want to see if anyone bothers to pretend that an irreligious case can be made.

[Shogon]

The government shouldn't rule over people's personal lives. I don't think it should be banned.

I don't have an issue with it... but I do have an issue with two gays raising a child. I do think that should be illegal. Straight people have a hard enough time raising a healthy kid... two gays who are bound to have even deeper emotional issues than your already emotionally challenged hetero adult? Haha.. no. Child abuse.

[90sgoat]

It's not gays getting married which ****ed up marriage, but women divorcing for frivolous reasons.

I hate cucked conservatives who see the gay in their brothers eye, but not the whore in their own.

[Norcaliblunt]

There are no such thing as “conservatives”. Just another group of people who want the state all up in your business to do what they think it should do.

[RRR3]

The government shouldn't rule over people's personal lives. I don't think it should be banned.

I don't have an issue with it... but I do have an issue with two gays raising a child. I do think that should be illegal. Straight people have a hard enough time raising a healthy kid... two gays who are bound to have even deeper emotional issues than your already emotionally challenged hetero adult? Haha.. no. Child abuse.
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/06/children-raised-by-same-sex-couples-do-better-school-new-study-finds/?outputType=amp

https://www.mother.ly/lesbian-parents-impact-kids-mental-health-2589254523.amp.html

https://thinkprogress.org/same-sex-parenting-study-age-25-677fa483b1c3/amp/

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/23/children-raised-by-same-sex-parents-do-as-well-as-their-peers-study-shows

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/13/there-is-no-harm-caused-by-same-sex-parenting-studies-suggesting-otherwise-are-skewed

[rufuspaul]

I honestly don't think anyone here is against gay marriage except the Muzzies.

[Long Duck Dong]

I've been pro-gay marriage long before most of my liberal friends in school were. People from both sides of the aisle(but mostly the left) worry too much about what their neighbor is doing, when it doesn't affect them in the least. Remember just 10 years ago California, the land of liberal looney toons, voted in favor of BANNING gay marriage.

Stuff like gay marriage, abortion, marijuana legalization, trannys in bathrooms etc. Who the fvck cares about sh!t like this? :confusedshrug: Stop trying to c0ck block US citizens from their pursuit of happiness.

At the same the opposition needs to take a chill pill on demonizing people who disagree with these things as long as they aren't trying to block or actively prevent them from happening.

[Cleverness]

The government shouldn't rule over people's personal lives. I don't think it should be banned.

I don't have an issue with it... but I do have an issue with two gays raising a child. I do think that should be illegal. Straight people have a hard enough time raising a healthy kid... two gays who are bound to have even deeper emotional issues than your already emotionally challenged hetero adult? Haha.. no. Child abuse.

Not sure if serious, but that seems too difficult to enforce and not worth it.

But I strongly agree that in general a Dad+Mom > Dad+Dad or Mom+Mom
Moms = love/compassion, Dad=discipline, reality, boundaries


RRR3 posted some exceptions to that rule. I personally know several gay couples who imo could successfully raise kids if they chose that route.

There are a lot of other more concerning demographics I am worried about than gays raising kids.. such as

drug addicts
teenagers
criminals
people with no money/job

Not only is it legal for the above demographics to raise kids, we actually subsidize it :facepalm

If we outlaw gays from raising kids, how about blind and deaf? Should they be able to raise kids?



I've been pro-gay marriage long before most of my liberal friends in school were. People from both sides of the aisle(but mostly the left) worry too much about what their neighbor is doing, when it doesn't affect them in the least. Remember just 10 years ago California, the land of liberal looney toons, voted in favor of BANNING gay marriage.

:applause:

"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage." - Obama

"I am not in favor of legalization [of marijuana]." - Obama

Add all the things he said about illegal immigration and Obama may be an right-wing extremist soon

[RRR3]

Obama literally legalized gay marriage.

[Celtics 1825]

Obama literally legalized gay marriage.
He himself didn't have anything to do with it though I thought? Wasn't it a Supreme Court vote?

[Hawker]

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/06/children-raised-by-same-sex-couples-do-better-school-new-study-finds/?outputType=amp

https://www.mother.ly/lesbian-parents-impact-kids-mental-health-2589254523.amp.html

https://thinkprogress.org/same-sex-parenting-study-age-25-677fa483b1c3/amp/

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/23/children-raised-by-same-sex-parents-do-as-well-as-their-peers-study-shows

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/13/there-is-no-harm-caused-by-same-sex-parenting-studies-suggesting-otherwise-are-skewed

If two gay men could create a child naturally, you'd have an argument but they can't.

It's unnatural and anti-science to think raising a child by two dudes/chicks is a good thing.

[Bourne]

1. Men and women are programmed differently, and having both aspects are best for a child's development. (I don't have data to support this, but it's how evolution has directed the human species so I think it's a safe assumption? Could be wrong.)

2. This argument sounds non-secular but it actually isn't: If the concept of marriage comes from religion, then having non-religious marriage be something antithetical to what religious marriage is supposed to be is "cultural appropriation" of something very sacred. So maybe call it something other than marriage so that you aren't blatantly ripping off something that would anger people in ripping off? (ok this argument is very defensive of religious people i realize but it's still a secular argument. but a counterargument is that what two other people do shouldnt matter to what two religious people do because they arent infringing on their lives at all etc., and i'd say ok yes their rights arent being infringed, but it is still a big FU to them. which is ok ultimately since you shoudl never legislate against being offended but it's a very weak point that shoudl be mentioned while we're at this game)

[ILLsmak]

The government shouldn't rule over people's personal lives. I don't think it should be banned.

I don't have an issue with it... but I do have an issue with two gays raising a child. I do think that should be illegal. Straight people have a hard enough time raising a healthy kid... two gays who are bound to have even deeper emotional issues than your already emotionally challenged hetero adult? Haha.. no. Child abuse.


One of my friends (lovers) is gay and he adopted a kid, a girl, and I think he does a good job. He's a good guy overall. I do think it gets kinda mixed up when it's two dudes/girls tho. It actually makes more sense for someone to be a single parent, be like ok you're old enough, daddy likes men, this is my boyfriend! Etc... than be like daddy and... daddy. You gotta be like this is your uncle or some shit haha.

but I dunno... I mean isn't children the logical end of marriage? How can you support one without the other? I dunno how I feel so it's more of a hypothetical.

-Smak

[highwhey]

One of my friends (lovers) is gay and he adopted a kid, a girl, and I think he does a good job. He's a good guy overall. I do think it gets kinda mixed up when it's two dudes/girls tho. It actually makes more sense for someone to be a single parent, be like ok you're old enough, daddy likes men, this is my boyfriend! Etc... than be like daddy and... daddy. You gotta be like this is your uncle or some shit haha.

but I dunno... I mean isn't children the logical end of marriage? How can you support one without the other? I dunno how I feel so it's more of a hypothetical.

-Smak
homosexuality is a mental disorder.

[rufuspaul]

I've seen heterosexual married couples who are terrible parents. What makes a good parent has nothing to do with their sexual preference.