MJ lost to Bird 16 times in a row before he retired

[Manny98]

The relief in MJs voice after hearing that Bird is retiring :roll: :roll: :roll:

https://streamable.com/rq6d7

16 Ls in a row :eek: Bird literally owned MJs soul :roll:

#notmygoat

[LAmbruh]

#notmygoat

[Mr Feeny]

#notmygoat


Sorry. You already admitted he's your goat on your manny alt



1. MJ
2.Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem*
5. Russell*
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Magic*
9. Bird*
10. Kobe**
11.*Lebron*

He's not top 10 but definitely top 20

[LAmbruh]

Sorry. You already admitted he's your goat on your manny alt
#notmylist






































































#notmygoat

[Mr Feeny]

#notmylist




































































#notmygoat


Alright manny:lol

[Manny98]

I've completely mindf*cked Feenys little brain, he now thinks everyone is my alt :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

I've completely mindf*cked Feenys little brain, he now thinks everyone is my alt :oldlol:

Awwwww how cute. An attempt to deflect:lol

[90sgoat]

Are you saying Larry Bird might be GOAT, because I actually agree with that.

Manny continuing his journey towards the light.

[G0ATbe]

Crazy how we never hear about details like this. MJ was the Kobe to Birds LeBron

[guy]

This was earlier in Jordan’s career during the 80s, not the last 16 times before Bird retired. By the 90s, Jordan and the Bulls were winning this matchup more often then not.

[Phoenix]

#notmygoat

Hi Manny.

[HylianNightmare]

Better SF than L39ron

[sportjames23]

[QUOTE=guy]This was earlier in Jordan

[colts19]

I agree that most of those wins were when Bird was healthy and had the better team. However if you are the GOAT, you don't lose 16 in a row to anybody.

[FireDavidKahn]

:roll:

You CANNOT be the GOAT (still top 5) if you lose to another GOAT 16 times in a row. That's so much worse then being dominated by a midget banker.

https://www.kiplinger.com/kipimages/pages/19379.jpg

[bigkingsfan]

Big Daddy Pippen saves the day again.

[G0ATbe]

Why did MJ need Bird to be unhealthy and have a better cast than Bird for him to be beatable?

[Mr Feeny]

You guys realize that he just made that up right? All you have to do is pull up the h2h game logs and see that he made it up.
He's a Lebron hater masquerading as a Lebron fan and was exposed 2 days ago.

[Manny98]

You guys realize that he just made that up right? All you have to do is pull up the h2h game logs and see that he made it up.
He's a Lebron hater masquerading as a Lebron fan and was exposed 2 days ago.
Did you watch the clip?

The commentator clearly stated that the Bulls have lost to the Celtics 16 times in a row

Im not making it up it really did happen

[superduper]

You still posting you alt ass bitch?

Fcuk outta here :roll:

[bullettooth]

Sorry. You already admitted he's your goat on your manny alt

https://i.giphy.com/media/8m1Nhbtt7CgCnqGsNV/source.gif

[Mr Feeny]

https://i.giphy.com/media/8m1Nhbtt7CgCnqGsNV/source.gif

:roll:

[guy]

:roll:

You CANNOT be the GOAT (still top 5) if you lose to another GOAT 16 times in a row. That's so much worse then being dominated by a midget banker.

https://www.kiplinger.com/kipimages/pages/19379.jpg

Well then who is the GOAT? Cause you can find embarrassing things like this or even worse for just about everyone.

Jordan is the only guy where things that happened in his first 3 years in the league is supposed to outweigh probably the most dominant ~10 year run any player has ever had. :oldlol:

[colts19]

Well then who is the GOAT? Cause you can find embarrassing things like this or even worse for just about everyone.

Jordan is the only guy where things that happened in his first 3 years in the league is supposed to outweigh probably the most dominant ~10 year run any player has ever had. :oldlol:

That would be the first 6 years. The streak was actually from 1984 to 1989.

[Turbo Slayer]

MJ still the GOAT

[guy]

That would be the first 6 years. The streak was actually from 1984 to 1989.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Michael+Jordan&player_id1_select=Michael+Jordan&player_id1=jordami01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Larry+Bird&player_id2_select=Larry+Bird&player_id2=birdla01&idx=players

Actually this streak was 14 games, not 16, (what

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Michael+Jordan&player_id1_select=Michael+Jordan&player_id1=jordami01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Larry+Bird&player_id2_select=Larry+Bird&player_id2=birdla01&idx=players

Actually this streak was 14 games, not 16, (what

[egokiller]

Awwwww how cute. An attempt to deflect:lol

You got his ass. Another alt retired for Manny. :roll:

[Manny98]

14?, yikes

I still can't wrap my mind at how that's even possibie :oldlol:

[egokiller]

14?, yikes

I still can't wrap my mind at how that's even possibie :oldlol:

^

Fvcking Jeff allowing this kid to still post his bullshit :roll:

[guy]

14 is still absolutely embarrassing for the so called GOAT :oldlol:

Imagine LeBron losing to Kobe 14 times in a row

Not saying it was a good look, but he was young and not in his prime for most of it, barely had any good teammates and it was against an all time great team.

At one point from 2017 to 2018, Lebron lost 11 of 12 to the warriors and he wasn’t young, was closer to his prime if not still in it, and he had all-star teammates. That’s not any better, if not worse.

[Manny98]

In what planet is losing 11 of 12 to the greatest team of all time equivalent to losing 14 straight? :oldlol:

[Mask the Embiid]

pathetic


Imagine getting your shit pushed in 16 str8 times


#notmygoat

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=guy]Not saying it was a good look, but he was young and not in his prime for most of it, barely had any good teammates and it was against an all time great team.

At one point from 2017 to 2018, Lebron lost 11 of 12 to the warriors and he wasn

[SpaceJammeR]

16 or 14 that

[superduper]

This clown still posting like anyone takes his ass remotely seriously :roll:

[guy]

In what planet is losing 11 of 12 to the greatest team of all time equivalent to losing 14 straight? :oldlol:

Those Celtics were also arguably the greatest team of all time. Lebron had better teammates and was way more experienced and closer to his prime. How the hell is that not comparable in terms of level of embarrassment? :oldlol:

[tanibanana]

MJ still my GOAT..

But this is one of many reason, that he is not undisputed GOAT.
Any given day, one can rank Wilt, Magic, Kareem, LeBron as their GOAT.
Because there are just simply too many factors to weigh in.

[scuzzy]

#notmygoat

[Vino24]

Not my goat.

[superduper]

#notMyGOAT

My (Le)GOAT is a shameless colluder with zero competitive integrity :rockon:

[Bawkish]

Bronbron couldn't even beat prime Dwight :lol

[SpaceJam2]

MJ has a losing record against:

[MrFonzworth]

This clown still posting like anyone takes his ass remotely seriously :roll:
And here you are enjoying the show

#notmygoat:dancin:banana:

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=SpaceJam2]MJ has a losing record against:

[Manny98]

Those Celtics were also arguably the greatest team of all time. Lebron had better teammates and was way more experienced and closer to his prime. How the hell is that not comparable in terms of level of embarrassment? :oldlol:
LeBron actually beat the Warriors

MJ got destroyed 14 times in a row

14 f*cking times im still in utter shock :roll:

[LAmbruh]

LeBron actually beat the Warriors

MJ got destroyed 14 times in a row

14 f*cking times im still in utter shock :roll:
and here I thought Lebron's 16-6 vs Kobe was overwhelming :oldlol:


14-0??????


#not :roll:

#my :roll:

#goat :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

Sorry manny. You already admitted that Jordan is your GOAT.

[Manny98]

- 1-9 without Pippen

- 14 beatdowns in a row to Brd

- Getting kicked out the playoffs 3 consecutive years by the badboys

- Going 1-5 against Hakeem from 91-93 and openly Admitting he's scared to play Hakeem in the finals

- Losing as the favorite against Orlando in 95

- Getting bailed out by Rodman in 96

#notmygoat

[Prometheus]

MJ > LeBron

Stay mad

[Docs Orders]

#notmygoat

[guy]

LeBron actually beat the Warriors

MJ got destroyed 14 times in a row

14 f*cking times im still in utter shock :roll:

What’s your point? After this streak, the Bulls were 9-5 against the Celtics until Bird retired so I’m not sure what the big difference is here.

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]What

[superduper]

Hey Manny how do you feel about Jordan being the GOAT, Kobe being 10th, and Bran being 11th all time?

Interested in your thoughts here.

Thanks.

[Elosha]

MJ has a losing record against:
•Larry Bird
•Isiah Thomas
•Hakeem Olajuwon

#NotMyGoat

LeBron has losing records against practically everyone he's faced in the Finals 3/9, You know ... the Finals ... when it actually means something? :facepalm Guy can't even make the playoffs when he moves out West and doesn't collude. :rolleyes:

You guys and your alts are so desperate. It's Ok. LeBron is still top ten ATG, and probably in that 5-7 range. You should be proud, but why do you want to constantly drag him down by specious comparisons to Jordan. :hammerhead:

Just relax, and enjoy his last few years. He's been able to collude again, so chances are he'll make the playoffs and make some noise as the number 2 option to AD. That's not a bad way to go for a 35 year old. And he'll keep piling up RS and some playoff stats, which is what he does best. End of the day, he's a great player and you can be proud. Guy doesn't have to (and isn't) GOAT for you to still be proud of him. Stop showing your constant insecurity.

[guy]

No one cares about the games after Bird broke his back and was a shell of his former self :roll:

Prime Bird was 14-0 against MJ :applause:

Is it Jordan

[Mr Feeny]

Sorry manny. You already said Jordan was 10 spots above Lebron.

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]Is it Jordan

[guy]

When both MJ & Bird were in their athletic primes Bird won the matchup 14-0

MJ only won AFTER Bird broke his back so it doesn't count

I know it's a tough pill to swallow that your hero couldn't win once in 14 attempts to prime Larry Bird :(

Jordan wasn

[3ball]

[QUOTE=guy]Jordan wasn

[superduper]

When both MJ & Bird were in their athletic primes Bird won the matchup 14-0

MJ only won AFTER Bird broke his back so it doesn't count

I know it's a tough pill to swallow that your hero couldn't win once in 14 attempts to prime Larry Bird :(

Wait don't you have MJ as the GOAT? :eek:

[FireDavidKahn]

LeBron beat the greatest team in history without an all-star.

[superduper]

LeBron beat the greatest team in history without an all-star.

How many championship teams had a 2nd option averaging 27ppg?

[Mr Feeny]

LeBron beat the greatest team in history without an all-star.

He never played the 96 Bulls?
And he got creamed by Durant and the 2017 Warriors?

Meanwhile, Kawhi beat the Durant-less Warriors in 6 games without any other superstar.

[Manny98]

Wait don't you have MJ as the GOAT? :eek:
Why would i have someone that lost 14 in a row to the same player as the GOAT

[FireDavidKahn]

He never played the 96 Bulls?
And he got creamed by Durant and the 2017 Warriors?

Meanwhile, Kawhi beat the Durant-less Warriors in 6 games without any other superstar.
73 wins

Ya, all it took was 4 HOF's in their prime to do that:roll:

Kawhi also had other all-stars and the deepest team in the league as well as that team being the 1st seed the year before:roll: Meanwhile LeBron swept that team.

[Phoenix]

Jordan wasn’t in his prime though for the majority of that time. Jordan and Bird’s prime didn’t really overlap that much - 1 year at the most in 88. Like most of these stupid arguments, they have more to do with timing of when these guys were in their primes and had quality teammates. Not really anyone’s fault but shit happens.

And I’m not trying to excuse Jordan. Like i said, isn’t a good look, but ultimately not really that big of a deal and no one ever gave a shit about this until fans of Lebron, who you brought up by the way, started to reach for little things to discredit the man since they know their boy doesn’t compare. Again, should we go through the much longer list

He's a closet MJ fan trying to draw as much ire as possible to Lebron. At this point, you could create a poll between Bron and Brian Scalabrine, and white Mamba would win leaving Tranny98 to fervishly jerk off to the results. If there's a reported national shortage of Jerkins lotion and hand tissues you'll know why.

[Mr Feeny]

Sorry manny. You already admitted MJ was your GOAT:lol

[superduper]

Why would i have someone that lost 14 in a row to the same player as the GOAT

Dude.. so fking cringe at this point trying to act like it didn't happen :oldlol:

We all know Jordan's your undisputed GOAT and you have him 10 spots ahead of L3/9ron.

We know.

[sportjames23]

LeBron beat the greatest team in history without an all-star.


When did Lebron ever play against the 90s Bulls?

[Manny98]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rolando]

So this means Bird is better than Lebron, right?

Look who Bird was up against:
-Dr. J
-Dominique Wilkins
-Michael Jordan
-Magic Johnson
-Kareem
-Isiah Thomas
-Scottie Pippen
-Dennis Rodman

That's a pretty damn good looking list of competitors.

[Manny98]

So this means Bird is better than Lebron, right?

Look who Bird was up against:
-Dr. J
-Dominique Wilkins
-Michael Jordan
-Magic Johnson
-Kareem
-Isiah Thomas
-Scottie Pippen
-Dennis Rodman

That's a pretty damn good looking list of competitors.
KD > Dr J
Kawhi > Wilkins
Kobe > young MJ
Curry = Magic
Duncan = Kareem
Westbrook > Thomas
George < Pippen
KG > Rodman

So your wrong LeBron played better comp than Bird

[Manny98]

Bird owned Jordan so bad

[tpols]

i do believe bird couldve punked MJ given similar squads.

he cant just be "hotdogging" it around... would get jordan rules placed.

Except Bird could actually light his squad up. And provide better teamwork.

[tontoz]

Pretty sure Bird's Celtics won the title a few weeks before Jordan was drafted so it makes sense the Celtics had his number. The Celtics were finished as title contenders, courtesy of the Pistons, by '88. The Bulls didnt even have a winning record until MJ's 4th season.

The team that Jordan was legit worried about in his prime was the Rockets.

[Round Mound]

MJ was a more dominant individual player but nobody made other teamates better than Bird did.

[Axe]

Lebron was 2-8 in his first two finals appearances.

[Lion's pride]

Bird did not have a better career with his awful back injuries always re-occurring, But I easily would take Bird's prime over Jordan and Lebron. All greats have their dominating traits, but Bird could be dominant as an individual and through his teammates, But was damn clutch when it mattered.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Kawhi > Wilkins
Wilkins more dominant scorer,Kawhi just edges him on defense.


Kobe > young MJ
Prime Kobe is a better shooter than 88 Jordan but 88 Jordan would still be the more dominant scorer and better defender.


Westbrook >Thomas
Westbrook has a broken jumpshot,bad defender and is a low iq point guard.Durant,Harden,Oladipo either got better or got more success getting away from him.George was on his way to going to the finals w/Kawhi had this season continued.


George < Pippen
Both play defense but Pippen gets the edge,George better shooter on offensive end.

[RRR3]

Is 3ball really arguing Dominique Wilkins over Kawhi? Not on the all time list, but just as players?

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Is 3ball really arguing Dominique Wilkins over Kawhi? Not on the all time list, but just as players?

I'm not 3ball you ****in troll,I'm still waiting for you LeBronsexuals to come out with actual proof that I'm 3ball and still haven't done it.

[LeCroix]

Michael is on the hot seat for a change. This type of wording would be his career type if he grew up in the media days. He could not take the pressure of todays media pressure. This is why it is documented he quit for mental mind fatigue rest.

[Roundball_Rock]

The team that Jordan was legit worried about in his prime was the Rockets.

The Rockets were non-factors most years. They didn't win a series from 1988-1992 and missed the playoffs altogether in 92'. They won 60+ zero times when Hakeem was there, 55+ three times during the entire Hakeem era. It was LA, Portland, Phoenix, Seattle, Utah making the finals when the Bulls did. Houston only came close in 97' when they lost in the WCF.

Fortunately for them, Hakeem's peak and their team's best years came at exactly the right time.

[Axe]

And Jordan's rest for 1 1/2 seasons only helped pave the way for their rings. By this, i mean they didn't have to worry about facing the defending champions back then.

[jstern]

Damn, the 80s were brutal. Look at that wound behind Larry's neck.

[Smoke117]

MJ was a more dominant individual player but nobody made other teamates better than Bird did.

Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm not even sure how you'd quantify that considering how talented his teammates were the majority of his career.

[RogueBorg]

:roll::roll:

[RogueBorg]

My (Le)GOAT is a shameless colluder with zero competitive integrity :rockon:

:rockon:

[tontoz]

The Rockets were non-factors most years. They didn't win a series from 1988-1992 and missed the playoffs altogether in 92'. They won 60+ zero times when Hakeem was there, 55+ three times during the entire Hakeem era. It was LA, Portland, Phoenix, Seattle, Utah making the finals when the Bulls did. Houston only came close in 97' when they lost in the WCF.

Fortunately for them, Hakeem's peak and their team's best years came at exactly the right time.


The Rockets beat the Bulls routinely, even when the Bulls were winning titles. The Bulls didn't have a big that could match up with Hakeem.


He says Michael Jordan told him, “you know it’s a good thing these guys can’t get out of the west.” and the reporter asked, “WHY?”

Jordan’s response was (regarding Hakeem)… “WE’VE GOT NO ANSWER FOR THAT BIG MONSTER.”

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/the-game-that-made-jordan-worried-about-facing-hakeem-in-the-nba-finals/

[juju151111]

Regular season

[Shogon]

The Rockets beat the Bulls routinely, even when the Bulls were winning titles. The Bulls didn't have a big that could match up with Hakeem.



https://www.basketballnetwork.net/the-game-that-made-jordan-worried-about-facing-hakeem-in-the-nba-finals/


It's always amazing to really let it sink in just how much circumstances and uncontrollable factors determine a player's legacy.

The difference between being drafted by franchise A vs franchise B, or health, or opponent health, or an opponent's team's circumstances, etc...

The best example I personally know of this is McGrady and Kobe... now I don't think McGrady would have 6 rings had he been with the Lakers and Shaq, but he definitely would have gotten rings... and Kobe might have 0... had they been on the other teams. And that's the biggest difference between Kobe going down as borderline top 10 all time, and McGrady going down as somewhere in the top 50... crazy, really. Because night in and night out these guys were playing at extremely similar levels and anyone who says that one was clearly and unarguably better than the other doesn't know what they're talking about. 2002-2004, especially.

So let's say MJ and the Bulls end up having to face Hakeem in the Finals twice and they lose both times, does MJ's legacy take a hit? Of course it would. I doubt you would have so many people calling him the undisputed GOAT... and why? Because of circumstance. But would MJ have been any lesser of a player for losing? Of course not. Not to any rational person, anyhow.

Therein lies the problem, you're all stupid dumb****s.

I try to tell you guys that it's neigh impossible to determine who the objective 'best' player is. There is no possible way nor will there ever be a possible way to 'know' who the best player is/was. It's hard enough to definitively determine who the best player is in any given era or year... let alone all time. It's impossible to know. There is no right answer. Even if there is objective truth buried somewhere deep, we will never know. It's impossible to know. There are a plethora of on the court and off the court factors that go into these things and they are unknowable.

And then you arrive at the conclusion that offering up your opinion on any of this is virtually meaningless because it's all unknowable. And that's it.

[Roundball_Rock]

He says Michael Jordan told him, “you know it’s a good thing these guys can’t get out of the west.” and the reporter asked, “WHY?”

Jordan’s response was (regarding Hakeem)… “WE’VE GOT NO ANSWER FOR THAT BIG MONSTER.”

Interesting, thanks! I had not seen that quote before.

[SATAN]

Shogon is a good poster

[tontoz]

I have no interest in the GOAT debate. I like MJ more than LeBron but I am not going to say he is better.

Invariably in these debates people bend over backwards throwing shade on one or the other. Lame

[ArbitraryWater]

Bird moved the ball.

His ball moving teams exposed MJ's individual style, which does not work at the highest level

[Round Mound]

Bird moved the ball.

His ball moving teams exposed MJ's individual style, which does not work at the highest level

This

This is also why i said Bird is the GOAT Team Player = Making Others Better.

[Soundwave]

Bird's a great player but the Bulls were a crap team in the mid-80s, the Celtics were the Durant Warriors of the mid-80s. Lets give Jordan McHale + Parish + DJ + Walton to play with and give Bird an 8 ppg rookie Pippen or a team that's half on crack cocaine and see how that goes for Bird.

The Celtics got beat by the Pistons and the Bulls became better than the Pistons, it would not go the same way if we're talking the 91 or 92 Bulls.

[Phoenix]

The Rockets beat the Bulls routinely, even when the Bulls were winning titles. The Bulls didn't have a big that could match up with Hakeem.



https://www.basketballnetwork.net/the-game-that-made-jordan-worried-about-facing-hakeem-in-the-nba-finals/

Few teams had a center to match up with Hakeem but neither he nor the Rockets were some indomitable force outside of 94 and 95. They were routinely losing to worse teams than the Bulls who had the same 'issue' at the centre position.

[Soundwave]

Few teams had a center to match up with Hakeem but neither he nor the Rockets were some indomitable force outside of 94 and 95. They were routinely losing to worse teams than the Bulls who had the same 'issue' at the centre position.

I'd let Hakeem have his 35 or whatever and just focus on shutting down the rest of that squad, which I think the Bulls would be able to do.

Rockets didn't just get beat by the Sonics in 96 for instance they got full on swept.

[Phoenix]

I'd let Hakeem have his 35 or whatever and just focus on shutting down the rest of that squad, which I think the Bulls would be able to do.

Rockets didn't just get beat by the Sonics in 96 for instance they got full on swept.

Yep. With Ervin Johnson at center doing a whopping 3.5/3.5 lol. And I'm not saying this to undermine Hakeem, truly great player and one of my personal favorites. Just putting it out there that his Rockets lost to alot of teams outside of 94 and 95 who didn't have centers to match-up with him. Those two years have glossed over all the playoff futility outside those seasons.

[SATAN]

I'd let Hakeem have his 35 or whatever and just focus on shutting down the rest of that squad, which I think the Bulls would be able to do.

Rockets didn't just get beat by the Sonics in 96 for instance they got full on swept.

Nothing burger

[Roundball_Rock]

Few teams had a center to match up with Hakeem but neither he nor the Rockets were some indomitable force outside of 94 and 95. They were routinely losing to worse teams than the Bulls who had the same 'issue' at the centre position.

Yeah Hakeem is one of those guys who is benefiting from when he played. His team's didn't have much success outside of those two seasons but it flies (and flew) under the radar. If he played today he would be hit hard by takes on social media, the various sports channels, etc. about why his teams went five years without winning a playoff series, why Robinson and Ewing were winning more on their teams, etc. That would end of course after he actually won but from 1985-1993 the Rockets made 1 finals, 3 WCSFs, won 55+ only once (55) and 50+ three times. This included missing the playoffs in his prime in 92'. Then after 95' it was the same story again.

Hakeem is deep in people's top 10s these days. You will see some people call him the GOAT or second GOAT center. This is ridiculous but it is almost entirely based on 2 years as people forget the other 16 years he played and because his game was tailor made for the YouTube generation. When he actually played he was considered on par with David Robinson and at times Ewing (I believe Robinson finished ahead of Hakeem in all-NBA more than vice versa. Ewing occasionally did.). The way people talk about him today, though, is as if he was Kareem or Wilt and towered over Robinson, Ewing, Daughtery, and co.

[Mr Feeny]

I'd let Hakeem have his 35 or whatever and just focus on shutting down the rest of that squad, which I think the Bulls would be able to do.

Rockets didn't just get beat by the Sonics in 96 for instance they got full on swept.

I wonder how Rodman would have matched up with Hakeem. Rodman tended to deal well with big men like Shaq but had trouble with more versatile big such as Malone.

That's the only thing that throws a wrench in all this. Jordan, Pippen, and harper win the perimeter battle, but Olajuwan would have been problematic.

[juju151111]

Yeah Hakeem is one of those guys who is benefiting from when he played. His team's didn't have much success outside of those two seasons but it flies (and flew) under the radar. If he played today he would be hit hard by takes on social media, the various sports channels, etc. about why his teams went five years without winning a playoff series, why Robinson and Ewing were winning more on their teams, etc. That would end of course after he actually won but from 1985-1993 the Rockets made 1 finals, 3 WCSFs, won 55+ only once (55) and 50+ three times. This included missing the playoffs in his prime in 92'. Then after 95' it was the same story again.

Hakeem is deep in people's top 10s these days. You will see some people call him the GOAT or second GOAT center. This is ridiculous but it is almost entirely based on 2 years as people forget the other 16 years he played and because his game was tailor made for the YouTube generation. When he actually played he was considered on par with David Robinson and at times Ewing (I believe Robinson finished ahead of Hakeem in all-NBA more than vice versa. Ewing occasionally did.). The way people talk about him today, though, is as if he was Kareem or Wilt and towered over Robinson, Ewing, Daughtery, and co.
Go educate yourself bro. They made it to the finals in his second year and the years after nba suspended his wing players because they were on crack and ralph got injured. Hakeem always showed up on the playoffs in his prime. Stop your nonesense. We seen what happened when peak David Robinson went against Hakeem. Haleem was dominating with his backcourt on crack and management issues. Yes, im taking Hakeem over everyone but Kareem, but even than I still like my chances with him vs Kareem in a series.

[warriorfan]

MJ lost to Bird

LeBron lost to Jason Terry

[Turbo Slayer]

MJ lost to Bird

LeBron lost to Jason Terry Aint no one takes you seriously.

[Roundball_Rock]

They made it to the finals in his second year and the years

Hence me saying 1987-1993...

Here are Houston's win totals from 1985-1999: 48, 51, 42, 46, 45, 41, 52, 42, 55, 58, 47, 48, 57, 41, 51*.

Is this some juggernaut franchise?


Yes, im taking Hakeem over everyone but Kareem

Exactly what I am talking about. Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Kareem clearly had better careers but Hakeem rides 2 years and YouTube to parity or superiority with them.

*Pro-rated over 82 games.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bird moved the ball.

His ball moving teams exposed MJ's individual style, which does not work at the highest level

Basically, it comes down to what I said here.

[RogueBorg]

. The way people talk about him today, though, is as if he was Kareem or Wilt and towered over Robinson, Ewing, Daughtery, and co.

You're right man, back in the 90's Hakeem didn't have this lofty status like he has now.

Do you remember the original Twin Towers with Hakeem and Ralph Sampson? Sampson was a freak of nature, it's too bad he got hurt. When he came into the league I was genuinely afraid of what he might do as far as dominating.

[tontoz]

I would agree that Hakeem has become overrated. His playoff series against DRob might have been the best i have ever seen from any player. However for much of his career he was seen as a black hole who didnt play well with others. He probably settled for jumpers too often.

[Roundball_Rock]

He deserves credit for those 94' and 95' runs. He stepped up when it mattered most. He crushed Ewing and Robinson and outplayed a young Shaq. The issue I have is people act like those two years are reflective of his entire career. The reason I have Hakeem outside my top 10 is his run at that level of dominance was shorter than all the guys ahead of him: KAJ, MJ, Wilt, LeBron, Russell, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan.

Robinson is a great barometer. He is considered top 20-30 all-time yet he was beating Hakeem in all-NBA more often than Hakeem beat him. That should raise some red flags that Hakeem wasn't the same Hakeem his entire career. With the other guys I just listed, you can't remove two years and have them have the same resume as a Robinson caliber guy (e.g., if you remove Kobe's best two years he still has a much better record than Wade).


Do you remember the original Twin Towers with Hakeem and Ralph Sampson? Sampson was a freak of nature, it's too bad he got hurt. When he came into the league I was genuinely afraid of what he might do as far as dominating.

It is a shame what happened with him. A big what if is if Boston was able to get him. Imagine Bird, McHale, Sampson, DJ and whatever they got back for Parish in a trade.

[juju151111]

Hence me saying 1987-1993...

Here are Houston's win totals from 1985-1999: 48, 51, 42, 46, 45, 41, 52, 42, 55, 58, 47, 48, 57, 41, 51*.

Is this some juggernaut franchise?



Exactly what I am talking about. Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Kareem clearly had better careers but Hakeem rides 2 years and YouTube to parity or superiority with them.

*Pro-rated over 82 games.

He not riding two years. He riding his whole career. His franchise was a mess. He didn't hop teams like Shaq and played with Penny,Kobe and Dwade. Not his fault he had crackheads that league suspended and his 2nd man injured. Rockets management was also against him with some paying situation. Sorry he didn't have Greg Pop or Oscar robinson and Magic effing Johnson. Hakeem finally got his wing player in 1995 when he was pld and the wing player was old.

[RRR3]

He deserves credit for those 94' and 95' runs. He stepped up when it mattered most. He crushed Ewing and Robinson and outplayed a young Shaq. The issue I have is people act like those two years are reflective of his entire career. The reason I have Hakeem outside my top 10 is his run at that level of dominance was shorter than all the guys ahead of him: KAJ, MJ, Wilt, LeBron, Russell, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan.

Robinson is a great barometer. He is considered top 20-30 all-time yet he was beating Hakeem in all-NBA more often than Hakeem beat him. That should raise some red flags that Hakeem wasn't the same Hakeem his entire career. With the other guys I just listed, you can't remove two years and have them have the same resume as a Robinson caliber guy (e.g., if you remove Kobe's best two years he still has a much better record than Wade).



It is a shame what happened with him. A big what if is if Boston was able to get him. Imagine Bird, McHale, Sampson, DJ and whatever they got back for Parish in a trade.
I think people rate Robinson way too low personally, especially if his defense was as otherworldly as people say it was.

[tontoz]

I think people rate Robinson way too low personally, especially if his defense was as otherworldly as people say it was.

He was an elite defender but man he got merked by Hakeem in the playoffs the year DRob won MVP. It was a beatdown.

I would agree he is a bit underrated now. He had a beef with Shaq back in the day. For whatever reason Shaq didnt like him and dissed him a lot. He doesnt seem to be rated as highly now as Hakeem although i would say they were comparable as players. Different styles though.

[Indian guy]

Uhhh because Bird from 85-88 was playing on teams with twice the amount of talent?

Once MJ had something resembling a good roster around him (89-90), he was 8-3 against Bird till he retired.

[Roundball_Rock]

I think people rate Robinson way too low personally, especially if his defense was as otherworldly as people say it was.

What hurts him his is at his peak, the two years where he was in the conversation for best player, he had terrible playoffs. He was 30/11/5 on 51% in the season in 94' but only 20/10/4 on 41% in the playoffs (4 games but they lost in the first round as the higher seed). He was better in 95' but then he faced Hakeem, his rival for the best player and he got crushed:

Hakeem: 35/13/5 on 56%
Robinson: 24/11/3 on 45%

So these are two big failures when he is at his peak.

I don't think he is necessarily underrated (it is hard to get him into the top 20 all-time) but he is forgotten in a way his superstar peers from that era are not and people do not realize how highly regarded he was like they do with his peers.

[warriorfan]

Aint no one takes you seriously.

More like no one takes LeBron seriously. :lol

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

LeBron lost to Jason Terry

LeBronsexuals like to pretend 2011 finals never existed